- Jul 22, 2003
- Reaction score
General Hux? Rose Tico?
Rose's role in the series was as a token diversity hire for a Chinese audience of 1.4 billion that Disney is desperately trying to reach $$$.The sequels were just “white hats vs black hats” in space. Rose at least had personal motivation instead of endless McMuffins and plot contrivances.
Ya but at least she blew up theIf I had to nail it down, Amilyn Holdo. An infuriatingly bad character that has been shoehorned into the story to further a misandristic plot contrivance.
Hmm, how about that librarian guy who commented on Sith cloning and didn't remember the Kaminoans? Okay, he only got a name in the EU, but he was new, white, and male. I bet he died, can't remember.My least favorite character of the sequels is that new white male character on the good guy's side. Oh wait there were none.
Well...in fairness, if you can't handle differing opinions on a movie...why are you on a SW film forum thread created entirely to discuss opinions on SW films? I don't, I don't know, call into QVC just to let them know I'm not buying what they sell and won't watch their channel. Hah! I just don't watch it. Yeah that's real healthy.I knew there was a reason I left these forums for a while. Might need to do it again.
I don't mind Kylo. Little too bratty and tantrum throwing for my taste, but I do think when he's written well enough he indeed can be interesting.There is literally not a single "new" character that will stand the test of time. Not a single one. Does anyone (even fans of the trilogy) give a **** about Kylo Ren? Poe Dameron? Who gives a **** about what Holdo was doing in the Rebellion before the sequels? Don't even start with Rose.
I cared about Finn and Snoke after TFA. They intrigued me. TLJ told me to go **** myself in that regard.
Hah! RIGHT? Who'd have ever guessed a giant corporation would churn out characters that feel soullessly traditional?It’s almost like the prequels were made by an eccentric millionaire and the sequels were made by a corporate algorithm. Weird.
I'd say... all the characters could have been interesting if written well enough.I don't mind Kylo. Little too bratty and tantrum throwing for my taste, but I do think when he's written well enough he indeed can be interesting.
Yeah I've always argued there are no bad characters, only bad writings. I won't even say bad writers, per se, though they're certainly out there. But even the best of writers are capable of writing trash occasionally. Plus realistically it's all just opinion anyway. Hard as it is for me to believe, but there are folks who consider the Twilight novels genius. Hah!I'd say... all the characters could have been interesting if written well enough.
Kylo had an inner conflict about the light and the dark side. Now if we just had seen any of his beginnings... how he was seduced by Snoke, what his relationship with Luke and Han was, how he came across the Knights of Ren (not leaving that to the comics), what his actual role was within the First Order. Then we might have sympathized with him, and felt bad about his final fall.
(Even so, he's the most interesting character here; he's mocked for his tantrums but I think his frustration and dissatisfaction is clearly felt. He even has a foil in General Hux, and a difficult relationship with his new master. All the ingredients are there; if only the writing had concentrated on bringing it forth...)
Rey's biggest failure is actually not that she's a Mary Sue. That's only her second biggest problem. The main thing about Rey is that she was written in TFA to be a mystery character, and that aspect remains unfulfilled. In TFA, there are hints about her being more than she seems, but the whole thing was obviously a scam, and it doesn't fit into the later TROS resolution (why should the Skywalker lightsaber call to her; why should she have those visions at all). In TLJ, she's denied a backstory at all. TROS then reverts that aspect and pulls a rabbit out of the hat that just matches nowhere.
Now imagine Rey had not been a Mary Sue, and her role would have been a Sequel Luke who doesn't have the I'm-your-father baggage - literally a no one. Visions only related to her own life, a path of discovery and hard work to learn about the Force, and a conflict - either with Luke, or the Resistance, or even Leia... that could have been an interesting character.
Throw that together with a similarly conflicted Kylo, and you would really make the audience wonder who's on the light and who's on the dark side. Perhaps even pull a 180°, and revert the roles. So many possibilities!
Finn. Oh Finn. That was an interesting beginning, which was undermined by his sudden pining for Rey, then the role converted into comic relief and Rose's sidekick, and in TROS he slipped into secondary character who never even finished any arc. This might have been the character that needed most planning for a proper storyline, with his connections within the First Order to set up a resolution through rebellion. But as the Sequels didn't bother with any planning, that went totally down the drain and became a wet blanket.
Poe Dameron is a difficult one. Allegedly he was supposed to die in TFA, and... well, let's be honest, everything he did later on, from flying against Starkiller to his mutiny in TLJ to going spelunking with Rey in TROS, everything could have been done by someone else. Poe is the definitive non-character in the trilogy.
That's not a catastrophe. Not every role needs to be a full blown character; in some cases an author can get by with an archetype. "Hotshot pilot" is quite okay with me. But his "resurrection" in TFA didn't quite impress me, and the mutiny arc in TLJ was garbage that should never have happened.
Although TLJ was the only movie of the three that bothered to give him any development at all (as much as I dislike the way it plays out), so go figure.
Every character could have been saved. I'd still have preferred larger roles for the old crew and a planning for six movies to "pass the flag" but the sequels by themselves could have worked fine - provided Disney had put any effort into planning beforehand.
Just think about it, three movies, over half a billion $$ budget total, and they didn't bother with a story, didn't hire a good author. It's beyond belief.
Win? No, they don't.Sequels win out over the prequels.
Improvement? No, they aren't.And the fans lose out again. That's why it's so hard to evaluate the sequels. They are simultaneously an improvement and a disappointment.
Oh I def. agree it's the worst SW movie and with a lot of those points, but let's not be hyperbolic here. Worst movie of all-time? I mean we've got contenders like Trolls 2, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Twilight. I think what's more apt is, nah, it's bad but no it's not the worst movie ever made...but it's a serious heavy-weight for most disappointing movie of all-time.I’ve already said Rose but in reality all actors in episode 8 earn this award. Start to finish worst movie of all time not just in the SW universe. 200 million dollar pile of
But overall vote does go to Rose and Holdo. Two absolutely pointless and useless characters.
Stupidest moment in cinematic history goes to Mary Poppins Leia also from this disaster of a movie.
I guess, I’ve never seen the others you mentioned but I guess there is tons of other garbage out there.Oh I def. agree it's the worst SW movie and with a lot of those points, but let's not be hyperbolic here. Worst movie of all-time? I mean we've got contenders like Trolls 2, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Twilight. I think what's more apt is, nah, it's bad but no it's not the worst movie ever made...but it's a serious heavy-weight for most disappointing movie of all-time.
For the other movies, it depends on the type of person you are. I'm the sort that can enjoy so bad they're good movies, but that definition really applies to the individual. For me, my definition is when a film is so low-budget, so incompetently made, so poorly acted and written....that it transcends bad and enters into comedy genius. It has to be unintentional though. What makes it so great is that it's so on a blatant it's not even opinion level NOT good...but the creators think it is. That's what makes it great. Best examples are The Room, Trolls 2, Miami Connection, and Plan 9. Some legit films have been even made on the making of these films. Best Worst Movie is a doc. made about the making of Trolls 2 that is a sincerely "better" movie than the film itself. Tim Burton did an entire Oscar nominated film on the history of director Ed Wood, film of the same title, declared as the worst film director and maker of all-time at one time. Most recently you may have heard of a film called the Disaster Artist which deals entirely about the making of The Room. A film can transcend bad and go into a level of brilliant unintentional satire, it can become great. These are films that barely classify as films. Usually cult stuff for real hardcore film geeks like me, but if you get a chance and can appreciate this kind of thing (not many can)...check these things out.I guess, I’ve never seen the others you mentioned but I guess there is tons of other garbage out there.
I will say the ST is the biggest disappointment to me for any movie series. I still wish it could be deleted or stricken from the record like some of the amazing EU that Disney slashed.