Worst character of the sequels?

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The sequels were just “white hats vs black hats” in space. Rose at least had personal motivation instead of endless McMuffins and plot contrivances.
Rose's role in the series was as a token diversity hire for a Chinese audience of 1.4 billion that Disney is desperately trying to reach $$$.
 
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If I had to nail it down, Amilyn Holdo. An infuriatingly bad character that has been shoehorned into the story to further a misandristic plot contrivance.
 
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If I had to nail it down, Amilyn Holdo. An infuriatingly bad character that has been shoehorned into the story to further a misandristic plot contrivance.
Ya but at least she blew up the White Supremacy ship. Too bad General White Pryde wasn't aboard with the rest of the evil white men who made up the First Order. I really think "misandristic" is a stretch. 😂

My least favorite character of the sequels is that new white male character on the good guy's side. Oh wait there were none. :unsure:
 
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My least favorite character of the sequels is that new white male character on the good guy's side. Oh wait there were none. :unsure:
Hmm, how about that librarian guy who commented on Sith cloning and didn't remember the Kaminoans? Okay, he only got a name in the EU, but he was new, white, and male. I bet he died, can't remember.

I just wish Disney wouldn't treat their PoC characters as obvious affirmative tokens. Finn had so much potential, and where did TROS leave him...?
 
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Interesting question. No of course this is all opinion....but I'll go through whom I wasn't a major fan of.

- General Hux: What a strange upsetting twist. Now, I actually liked Hux in TFA. He's fine, a traditional officer type, but he seems relatively competent. I don't think there's a single character in the ST that did more of a complete 180. He went from a relatively intimidating and intelligent military officer to...Bebop and Rocksteady, slapstick, and a literal gag. It was awful. They don't even fell like the same character. What happened? Clearly Rian does not like portraying white male "Nazi" types as an actual threat...but this is fiction. I want my villains to BE intimidating and a sincere challenge. Can you imagine if they showed Tarkin being ragdolled around by Palpatine like Snoke does to Hux? All his aura and intimidation goes right out the window. Why would a First Order General indulge in a single pilots conversation, let alone a mocking one, instead of just ignore it and command to shoot him down? It makes no sense. How unprofessional is this dude? And by the time of TROS, the character had become so gutless and altered from the original portrayal, they quite literally kill him off in the most casual of means to just wrap him up. It legit comes off as, "Oh yeah...and Hux died." They replaced TFA Hux...with TFA Hux...AKA Pryde. It's just a headache. I don't think there's a single character that suffered more between the switch from Abrams to Johnson.

- Admiral Holdo: Why does this character exist? I want to preface this with I adore Laura Dern as an actress, but why is she a thing? Just like Pryde basically just being Hux back when he was competent, why create a new ball gown wearing "Insert your socio-political values here" Admiral when you already have an established and beloved Admiral? His name was Ackbar. And much like Hux, he's killed off in the most nonchalant of ways. They may as well have just said "Oh and BTW, Ackbar died," and had someone say "Wait was that the fish dude?" Holdo is problematic in many ways. Firstly, she's immensely unlikable. Very holier than thou and passive-aggressive...one of the most obnoxious qualities a person can have IMO. She's portrayed as potentially even an opposition. Then suddenly...she's...not? Suddenly she's a hero? Huh? The fact she won't tell Poe the plan is a comically bad plot hole. It could have even easily been excused by implying there's a potential spy on board, but no. Johnson didn't think of that. That would make too much sense. Instead she quite literally doesn't tell Poe the plan because she doesn't have to "mansplain" it to him. This is portrayed as apparently female empowering...and yet, how many people did she get killed because of it? Ripley...she is not. Then her big heroic moment is the ultimate in...how is this possible? Since when was this a thing? So if you can weaponize hyperspace, firstly, why is she still onboard? Um....autopilot? Droids? Rian just wanted a feminist women martyr, it's really that simple. Because it makes no sense otherwise. But more importantly is the giant gap it puts into the lore, bigger than the one she cut through Snoke's Supremacy. If you can do this, this is a viable option, why the hell wasn't it attempted on...I don't know...THE DEATH STARS?! I'm all for more female roles, personally I'd prefer female villains (ain't any in live action really outside of very small roles like Zam or Aurra), but this was not the way. I despise that you're called sexist for not liking Holdo, whereas in truth...she's just poorly written. Very.

DJ: Why does this character...also...exist? Firstly, I'm sorry, but you'd have to be an idiot to trust this man. Talk about plot convenience. Secondly, what's up with the stuttering? It's just as annoying as Boss Nass slobbering all over the place. But lastly, my biggest issue was...hey, maybe this guy will end up a new Lando type role? Because when that AT-ST head peeled off, I was sure it was him. And by God, I was SURE wrong. I quite literally facepalmed when I saw it was BB-8. I remember hearing groans. I have little to no idea what the purpose of this character was.

Rose: I don't think she's quite as bad as others...but she ain't good. He character serves no true purpose. Her and Finn's subplot ultimately amounts to a red herring. She's there...just to fill time and toss our preachy real-world political agenda ideologies that Rian believes. Dude used this film as a personal soapbox. It really comes off very bizarre and out of nowhere, but nothing more so than her kissing Finn and her ideologically FLAWED speech on winning the war by saving what we love rather than stopping what we hate. Like, TLJ is bipolar. Quite literally it just had Holdo KILL an entire fleet in what's portrayed as a heroic impactful act...and now it's sending the opposite message? Hell her sister did the same as Holdo, but she doesn't believe in that? Huh? And what's even more comedic is: 1. She gives this speech right as the door is blasted away, having no idea Luke would show...meaning...if not for Luke, she basically just got everyone killed. 2. How the hell did she know that she wouldn't kill Finn AND HERSELF by ramming into him like that? And how the hell did they not get shot at by the First Order after the crash? Like....what? The funniest moment in all of the ST for me is Rose asking to come along in TROS and Finn's like "Nah!" Good call!

Finn: The only reason he's on here for me is because he had by far the most potential. He was the most original and had the best set-up IMO. But once you get to TLJ, Rian had no idea what to do with him. Boy for someone as so-called "woke" as Rian, he sure had no clue how to write a male POC.

Luke: I don't even want to go here. I really don't. Maybe I will later...but I don't think I've ever seen a film icon more destroyed in my lifetime.
 
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There is literally not a single "new" character that will stand the test of time. Not a single one. Does anyone (even fans of the trilogy) give a **** about Kylo Ren? Poe Dameron? Who gives a **** about what Holdo was doing in the Rebellion before the sequels? Don't even start with Rose.

I cared about Finn and Snoke after TFA. They intrigued me. TLJ told me to go **** myself in that regard.
 
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I knew there was a reason I left these forums for a while. Might need to do it again.
Well...in fairness, if you can't handle differing opinions on a movie...why are you on a SW film forum thread created entirely to discuss opinions on SW films? I don't, I don't know, call into QVC just to let them know I'm not buying what they sell and won't watch their channel. Hah! I just don't watch it. Yeah that's real healthy.

Yeah! Might want to leave. You do that, buddy! ;)

There is literally not a single "new" character that will stand the test of time. Not a single one. Does anyone (even fans of the trilogy) give a **** about Kylo Ren? Poe Dameron? Who gives a **** about what Holdo was doing in the Rebellion before the sequels? Don't even start with Rose.

I cared about Finn and Snoke after TFA. They intrigued me. TLJ told me to go **** myself in that regard.
I don't mind Kylo. Little too bratty and tantrum throwing for my taste, but I do think when he's written well enough he indeed can be interesting.

But yes, I do think most come off as more generic cookie-cutter placeholders than real characters. Poe is a generic stock role cocksure pilot, Rey is a cliched goodie-good and near infallible Jedi, by the second Finn just gets tossed to the wayside and becomes nothing but cringe comedic relief, Rose is just...Rose, Phasma barely even classifies as a character, etc. Not many are all that memorable. The PT may not had the most profound writing by any means, but at least some new characters stood out.

I can live with Snoke...now...knowing the full picture basically being he doesn't matter even in the story itself, but yes I don't think he's some beacon of quality writing.
 
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It’s almost like the prequels were made by an eccentric millionaire and the sequels were made by a corporate algorithm. Weird.
Hah! RIGHT? Who'd have ever guessed a giant corporation would churn out characters that feel soullessly traditional?

Now with Luke...my issues go deep. I will say, no, he never was my favorite SW character. I don't dislike him by any means, but he likely wouldn't even make my top five. Truthfully I've never been much a fan of any franchises main role, though there are exceptions. The everyman, the self-representation roles are usually more wooden. But they're integral because they ground the story, that's the character that usually grows the most. In the case of the OT, it certainly is Luke.

So while not a favorite, I always recognized his integrity to the crux of the story. For as much as I love Han Solo, he's just not remotely as important in the grand scheme. The everyman character is usually the heart and soul of the production. They may not be the most charming or plucky or even interesting role, they usually even go through a sort of annoying phase just to heighten how much they evolve, but it's their story.

So seeing Luke at the end of TFA, for me, was powerful. It implied a lot. Yet changing Luke as much as they did almost fundamentally changes the theme of SW. I knew, immediately, when he tossed that lightsaber over his shoulder so casually...this is going to be an abomination. I thought of it a million times and can think of a million better scenes. You could have him accept it, you could have him not accept it, you could have him do a mixture of both...but never once did I think resorting the scene to a gag was a viable and sensible option. That would have never even come into my mind to write.

Then there's just the logistics issue of, he left a map to find him...but he doesn't want found? Huh? A lot of things point to Rian simply either not even watching what Abram's set up in TFA, these being written by two separate people with no connection or communication to each other at the same time, or simply Rian just...not...caring.

Now this would never, ever, ever happen...but as fans often enjoy doing...I wrote what I'd have done just for fun. I really think there's only one way to really justify why Luke has become so drastically different. I'm sure perhaps books and novels will explore Luke's academy more and his students that Ben killed, my version would never happen, but one of those students in my version would be Mara Jade. It's Jade really in name and appearance only, though you could interestingly make her a former Inquisitor which kind of parallels the Legends version of her being the "Emperors Hand." For all intents, it's a new character, but Luke even develops a relationship with this woman, his New Order not forbidding love. Luke recognizes that that rule is one of the very reasons as to why the Jedi Order fell: Anakin's forbidden love for Padme. His own father and mother's passion, adoration, and love. But all the while, Ben is growing increasingly more disobedient. Perhaps due to this relationship with Mara, Luke is unintentionally not giving Ben as much attention and care as he deserves. He's challenging and unruly, Luke not knowing he's actually being subconsciously seduced by Palpatine's spirit. The voices inside his head. He almost feels as if he's going mad, which he never openly confesses to but Luke can clearly tell something is...off.

They'd have a very Anakin and Obi-Wan relationship, a deep bond and care for each other, but often find themselves in opposing opinions. After a few months of this, perhaps there's a massive argument between Luke and Ben. Perhaps Ben even produces force lightening or loses control of his anger and accidentally wounds a fellow student and friend. He feels terrible guilt for this action, storms off, but the voice explains to him that they're simply afraid of his abilities. They're limiting him and will, eventually, shun him out. Back to live with his disgraced politician mother or humiliating smuggler father, parents that will never truly understand him.

That night, Luke Skywalker discusses Ben with Mara, seeking advice from another point-of-view. Mara says he's unstable, he needs controlled or he must be excommunicated from the New Order. Luke disagrees, not knowing Ben himself heard some of this conversation. A tampered filter of it due to Palpatine's interference. He goes to Ben's room to simple talk to his nephew...and he sees him medicating in a trance...with very clearly the entity of Palpatine and the very darkside itself hovering over and tainting his meditations. In a panic, Luke ignites his lightsaber, not believing what he's witnessing. Immediately this essence snaps Ben out of his trance and he awakes to see his own Uncle, his own Jedi Master, seemingly attacking him. Everything the voice has said is coming true...or so he believes.

And then it goes down. Ben Solo annihilates the New Order. Everyone, including Luke's lover, Mara. Everyone but Luke.

Love it or hate it, THIS at least makes a LOT more sense to me than what we got. For many reasons: 1. It would explain why Luke has so dynamically changed and gone into hiding. The corruption of his own nephew and padawan, something he himself realizes he may have unintentionally sparked. The death of his lover and students at the very hands of his nephew. Adding a romance for Luke lends far more oomph to his tragedy and personality change. The fears of Palpatine himself being now seemingly invincible and potentially coming for him through Kylo Ren. The realization that Palpatine is seemingly capable of force possession. 2. He hides in order to hide himself from Sheev and Kylo, fearing what if he were to become possessed by him? What then? The pure danger that would evoke. This would change anyone drastically. 3. It doesn't make Luke out to be someone so unrecognizable and uncharacteristic. He doesn't simply FEAR Ben is going to potentially go to the darkside and literally consider killing his own nephew in his sleep. That is an unforgivable sin in TLJ. My version of the scene doesn't do that at all. It's a Sith manipulation he and the younger and naïve Ben Solo fell right into. 4. It explains why Ben is so conflicted himself, he's occasionally being almost absorbed for his essence by Palpatine. It also explains just why Ben was chosen. He was an eventual and potential full transfer for Palpatine to live inside of. He's got Skywalker blood (a personal Palpatine obsession), but he also was easier to get to and manipulate than Luke. 4. The reason he left a map to himself was a contingency, he didn't want found so that it may not lead Palpatine/Kylo to him, but if Palpatine were to reveal himself...then Luke would need brought in as a last resort because he is the only opposition that knows Sheev is "alive," the only living being who could even fathom how he's "alive," so to speak. But he must keep this to himself as well as the very reveal of Palpatine would allow him to expose himself and and he and Palpatine himself know he is stronger, for now, in the shadows like a traditional Sith puppeteer. This would explain the confliction between wanting to and not to be found. 5. This explains the existence of Snoke, simply a Wizard of Oz smoke and mirrors act for Palpatine to act through before ready to openly reveal.
 
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I don't mind Kylo. Little too bratty and tantrum throwing for my taste, but I do think when he's written well enough he indeed can be interesting.
I'd say... all the characters could have been interesting if written well enough.

Kylo had an inner conflict about the light and the dark side. Now if we just had seen any of his beginnings... how he was seduced by Snoke, what his relationship with Luke and Han was, how he came across the Knights of Ren (not leaving that to the comics), what his actual role was within the First Order. Then we might have sympathized with him, and felt bad about his final fall.
(Even so, he's the most interesting character here; he's mocked for his tantrums but I think his frustration and dissatisfaction is clearly felt. He even has a foil in General Hux, and a difficult relationship with his new master. All the ingredients are there; if only the writing had concentrated on bringing it forth...)

Rey's biggest failure is actually not that she's a Mary Sue. That's only her second biggest problem. The main thing about Rey is that she was written in TFA to be a mystery character, and that aspect remains unfulfilled. In TFA, there are hints about her being more than she seems, but the whole thing was obviously a scam, and it doesn't fit into the later TROS resolution (why should the Skywalker lightsaber call to her; why should she have those visions at all). In TLJ, she's denied a backstory at all. TROS then reverts that aspect and pulls a rabbit out of the hat that just matches nowhere.
Now imagine Rey had not been a Mary Sue, and her role would have been a Sequel Luke who doesn't have the I'm-your-father baggage - literally a no one. Visions only related to her own life, a path of discovery and hard work to learn about the Force, and a conflict - either with Luke, or the Resistance, or even Leia... that could have been an interesting character.
Throw that together with a similarly conflicted Kylo, and you would really make the audience wonder who's on the light and who's on the dark side. Perhaps even pull a 180°, and revert the roles. So many possibilities!

Finn. Oh Finn. That was an interesting beginning, which was undermined by his sudden pining for Rey, then the role converted into comic relief and Rose's sidekick, and in TROS he slipped into secondary character who never even finished any arc. This might have been the character that needed most planning for a proper storyline, with his connections within the First Order to set up a resolution through rebellion. But as the Sequels didn't bother with any planning, that went totally down the drain and became a wet blanket.

Poe Dameron is a difficult one. Allegedly he was supposed to die in TFA, and... well, let's be honest, everything he did later on, from flying against Starkiller to his mutiny in TLJ to going spelunking with Rey in TROS, everything could have been done by someone else. Poe is the definitive non-character in the trilogy.
That's not a catastrophe. Not every role needs to be a full blown character; in some cases an author can get by with an archetype. "Hotshot pilot" is quite okay with me. But his "resurrection" in TFA didn't quite impress me, and the mutiny arc in TLJ was garbage that should never have happened.
Although TLJ was the only movie of the three that bothered to give him any development at all (as much as I dislike the way it plays out), so go figure.

Every character could have been saved. I'd still have preferred larger roles for the old crew and a planning for six movies to "pass the flag" but the sequels by themselves could have worked fine - provided Disney had put any effort into planning beforehand.

Just think about it, three movies, over half a billion $$ budget total, and they didn't bother with a story, didn't hire a good author. It's beyond belief.
 
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I'd say... all the characters could have been interesting if written well enough.

Kylo had an inner conflict about the light and the dark side. Now if we just had seen any of his beginnings... how he was seduced by Snoke, what his relationship with Luke and Han was, how he came across the Knights of Ren (not leaving that to the comics), what his actual role was within the First Order. Then we might have sympathized with him, and felt bad about his final fall.
(Even so, he's the most interesting character here; he's mocked for his tantrums but I think his frustration and dissatisfaction is clearly felt. He even has a foil in General Hux, and a difficult relationship with his new master. All the ingredients are there; if only the writing had concentrated on bringing it forth...)

Rey's biggest failure is actually not that she's a Mary Sue. That's only her second biggest problem. The main thing about Rey is that she was written in TFA to be a mystery character, and that aspect remains unfulfilled. In TFA, there are hints about her being more than she seems, but the whole thing was obviously a scam, and it doesn't fit into the later TROS resolution (why should the Skywalker lightsaber call to her; why should she have those visions at all). In TLJ, she's denied a backstory at all. TROS then reverts that aspect and pulls a rabbit out of the hat that just matches nowhere.
Now imagine Rey had not been a Mary Sue, and her role would have been a Sequel Luke who doesn't have the I'm-your-father baggage - literally a no one. Visions only related to her own life, a path of discovery and hard work to learn about the Force, and a conflict - either with Luke, or the Resistance, or even Leia... that could have been an interesting character.
Throw that together with a similarly conflicted Kylo, and you would really make the audience wonder who's on the light and who's on the dark side. Perhaps even pull a 180°, and revert the roles. So many possibilities!

Finn. Oh Finn. That was an interesting beginning, which was undermined by his sudden pining for Rey, then the role converted into comic relief and Rose's sidekick, and in TROS he slipped into secondary character who never even finished any arc. This might have been the character that needed most planning for a proper storyline, with his connections within the First Order to set up a resolution through rebellion. But as the Sequels didn't bother with any planning, that went totally down the drain and became a wet blanket.

Poe Dameron is a difficult one. Allegedly he was supposed to die in TFA, and... well, let's be honest, everything he did later on, from flying against Starkiller to his mutiny in TLJ to going spelunking with Rey in TROS, everything could have been done by someone else. Poe is the definitive non-character in the trilogy.
That's not a catastrophe. Not every role needs to be a full blown character; in some cases an author can get by with an archetype. "Hotshot pilot" is quite okay with me. But his "resurrection" in TFA didn't quite impress me, and the mutiny arc in TLJ was garbage that should never have happened.
Although TLJ was the only movie of the three that bothered to give him any development at all (as much as I dislike the way it plays out), so go figure.

Every character could have been saved. I'd still have preferred larger roles for the old crew and a planning for six movies to "pass the flag" but the sequels by themselves could have worked fine - provided Disney had put any effort into planning beforehand.

Just think about it, three movies, over half a billion $$ budget total, and they didn't bother with a story, didn't hire a good author. It's beyond belief.
Yeah I've always argued there are no bad characters, only bad writings. I won't even say bad writers, per se, though they're certainly out there. But even the best of writers are capable of writing trash occasionally. Plus realistically it's all just opinion anyway. Hard as it is for me to believe, but there are folks who consider the Twilight novels genius. Hah!

Point is, I utterly agree with your sentiment. Some of these roles, say Poe (or even Rey), are fine in my book. They're just not outstanding either. I don't think there's anything outright God awful about Poe as a character, I just don't think he really stands out either. He's, as you say, archetypical. He's the rogue. A good case in point is, compare him to someone like Wedge who doesn't even really count as a true character as far as films are concerned. They're somewhat akin in ways, but Poe is a lead and Wedge is not. The irony is that because of Wedge's limitedness, it actually makes the role almost stand out more than Poe being an expanded character. Now why? Because Poe's expansion is basically Han Solo, so thusly he becomes compared to Han Solo and will inevitably fall short of. Whereas Wedge, in his ambiguity (on film) is known only for one thing: piloting. He becomes synonymous more with an action than a personality. Thus he becomes more stand out than a character that ultimately is very similar to Wedge, but his "depth" has already been treaded by older and superior roles.

Finn was really the only new role that didn't fit an already pre-established archetype. Kylo is a literal Vader fanboy in the context itself that he becomes the stories equivalent to Vader. Rey is Luke. Poe is Han. BB-8 is R2. Snoke is (now possibly literally from a certain point of view) Palpatine. Hux was in the beginnings a Tarkin-ish role that became butchered. Maz is Yoda-ish with not much real wisdom to contribute to the over-all story. They're not identical, sure, but they're stand-in. Finn was the stand-out. It's not even as if they haven't done redemptions, of course they have. But this was unique in the sense of an AWOL Stormtroopers, a crisis of consciousness, just a simple man who becomes on the lamb and wrapped into a larger story. Redemption was done with Anakin. On the run was pseudo-done with Han and Jabba, as was finding his rigtheousness and joining the rebellion. Excuse me, resistance. Yet SW has never truly done that before in that quite formula. I always saw it as ending very akin to how Trevarrow ended his EP9. He's force sensitive, hence how he broke from the childhood mind control, and he comes to be either a figurehead or even martyr that turned the tide of the war via helping break the control of countless stormtroopers. He's the one who leads the revolution, turns the First Order quite literally against itself and crucially plays a pivotal role in toppling it.

...and none of that happened. Not really. You can see vague shreds and shards of it in TROS with the Jayna character and her group also having been former stormtroopers who defected. But that's it. I utterly agree with Boyega, they had no clue what to do with his role beyond the first film and it's a damn shame.
 
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Every character in this series is an amalgamation of traits swapped around. They are bastardized RPG character remplates. There are a few things sprinkled in from Lucas early drafts and lore. Bake at 420 degrees, slice into unequal portions and serve like a tray of poop brownies.
However, these character could have been salvaged despite them all being Star Wars stereotypes. Developing strong challenges tailor made for each of them would have been great. Finn suffered from the most bungling, mainly because they sacrificed everything to make Rey's quest the most important. The rest of the story was treated as an afterthought.
 
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Terrible movie with bad acting and bad effects.

Terrible movie with acceptable acting and effects.

Sequels win out over the prequels. And the fans lose out again. That's why it's so hard to evaluate the sequels. They are simultaneously an improvement and a disappointment.
 
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I am tired of fighting over which bad movie is worse. Now we have actual good content again that's all I care about. The rest is "Legends". Or would be if they would release a high def un-forked with OT, anyways.
 
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Well, it’s really hard to find a big budget movie as bad as a prequel. Yes, even the sequels are better. Not that I will watch either for fun.
 
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No one is right or wrong here...it's all opinion, guys.

For me, I'm an utter mixed bag. I'm a fan of aspects of the PT, but not so much them as whole individual films. I liked TFA better than all of the PT, I hated TLJ more than any film in the entire Saga, and I'm rather indifferent on TROS. I think the PT has some utterly terrible acting and writing. It's rather shocking how the PT can feature such tremendous actors as Natalie Portman, Sam Jackson, Liam Neeson, and Ewan McGregor...and make them come off so deadpan, flat, and seeming bored at times. I always laugh at Sam's delivery of "A Sith...lord?" But in defense of TPM, I think it's got among the most gorgeous design work in the entire franchise. Designs like Naboo, Coruscant, Battle Droids, Trade Fed. ships, Podracers, the Royal Starship, new alien creatures, they're all stunning and so I cannot ever hate it. It's world building is wonderful, it's in the meat of the story that it falls flat. But for me and this is just my opinion, it's baffling to me how anyone can sincerely think ROTS is the best SW movie. Yet it seems to occasionally happen. For my money, to each their own, but I've never viewed it as significantly better from the other two prequels as others seem to. It is better, but I think rather sparingly.

I also think, in defense of the prequels, more individual scenes are God awful...but at least the larger picture of them makes sense. There's a logical progression, it's just in the details that it gets bad. Whereas IMO, the ST has the exact opposite problem. They're got wonderful scenes, over-all better acting and dialogue, but as a whole...because they seemingly weren't though out ahead of time...they feel so much more disjointed when viewing the over-all three film act. They feel very loosely connected and really just pulling things out of nowhere from a bag of nostalgia lore.

I think TFA, while indeed flawed, was a much better start than any of the PT films. The issue is, that's because it's basically just ANH with a new coat of paint. For my money, it's a decent film, but an uninspired one. Even the design work is predominately uninspired and redundant. Yet at least, to me, it felt like SW again. It had me excited again enough to look forward to where this was going to go. That's where it gets...unfortunately...unbelievably bad. The following two are just atrocious IMO. TLJ is questionable on every level for me and while I do think TROS is superior, it's more concerned with undoing TLJ than it is telling its own story. I hesitate to say any SW film is thespian-level drama, but for me TROS is the most "popcorn" of all the films. It's very mindless non-stop action at the pace of a cocaine-filled beige bachelor party. To call it rushed would be an understatement.

So end of the day, I think both trilogies are very flawed...but have some redeeming qualities. I even can enjoy some, despite knowing it's kind of a guilty pleasure. And one flaw I think they both inherently share is suffering from way too much marketing interference to the stories themselves.
 
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I’ve already said Rose but in reality all actors in episode 8 earn this award. Start to finish worst movie of all time not just in the SW universe. 200 million dollar pile of :poop:
But overall vote does go to Rose and Holdo. Two absolutely pointless and useless characters.
Stupidest moment in cinematic history goes to Mary Poppins Leia also from this disaster of a movie.
 
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I’ve already said Rose but in reality all actors in episode 8 earn this award. Start to finish worst movie of all time not just in the SW universe. 200 million dollar pile of :poop:
But overall vote does go to Rose and Holdo. Two absolutely pointless and useless characters.
Stupidest moment in cinematic history goes to Mary Poppins Leia also from this disaster of a movie.
Oh I def. agree it's the worst SW movie and with a lot of those points, but let's not be hyperbolic here. Worst movie of all-time? I mean we've got contenders like Trolls 2, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Twilight. I think what's more apt is, nah, it's bad but no it's not the worst movie ever made...but it's a serious heavy-weight for most disappointing movie of all-time.
 
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why is she dressed for a new year's party on a cruise ship? this character is utterly absurd. nothing about this character makes any sense at all.
What you talking about, old friend? You've never see a military Admiral in a ballgown before during active duty? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: ;)
 
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Oh I def. agree it's the worst SW movie and with a lot of those points, but let's not be hyperbolic here. Worst movie of all-time? I mean we've got contenders like Trolls 2, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Twilight. I think what's more apt is, nah, it's bad but no it's not the worst movie ever made...but it's a serious heavy-weight for most disappointing movie of all-time.
I guess, I’ve never seen the others you mentioned but I guess there is tons of other garbage out there.
I will say the ST is the biggest disappointment to me for any movie series. I still wish it could be deleted or stricken from the record like some of the amazing EU that Disney slashed.
 
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I guess, I’ve never seen the others you mentioned but I guess there is tons of other garbage out there.
I will say the ST is the biggest disappointment to me for any movie series. I still wish it could be deleted or stricken from the record like some of the amazing EU that Disney slashed.
For the other movies, it depends on the type of person you are. I'm the sort that can enjoy so bad they're good movies, but that definition really applies to the individual. For me, my definition is when a film is so low-budget, so incompetently made, so poorly acted and written....that it transcends bad and enters into comedy genius. It has to be unintentional though. What makes it so great is that it's so on a blatant it's not even opinion level NOT good...but the creators think it is. That's what makes it great. Best examples are The Room, Trolls 2, Miami Connection, and Plan 9. Some legit films have been even made on the making of these films. Best Worst Movie is a doc. made about the making of Trolls 2 that is a sincerely "better" movie than the film itself. Tim Burton did an entire Oscar nominated film on the history of director Ed Wood, film of the same title, declared as the worst film director and maker of all-time at one time. Most recently you may have heard of a film called the Disaster Artist which deals entirely about the making of The Room. A film can transcend bad and go into a level of brilliant unintentional satire, it can become great. These are films that barely classify as films. Usually cult stuff for real hardcore film geeks like me, but if you get a chance and can appreciate this kind of thing (not many can)...check these things out.

I don't think The Last Jedi is that. It's competently made. It's incompetently written IMO. It's not so bad it's good. It's just bad. There are worse films, by far, the difference is...

Enjoyment.

TLJ is not so bad it's enjoyably bad. It's just bad bad. It quite literally shreds the legacy of this franchise. I don't laugh at its flaws, instead I cringe or even feel insulted by them.
 
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