Why is "Solo" underperforming at the box office?

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This really doesn't apply to me because I quoted part of a conversation already included in this thread. Has nothing to do with me thinking it's my private playground. And it irks me that I am being made the example when many others (V_F, DMX) are much more at fault than I. So I want everyone to know I am not the troll enemy here.

I was sick and tired of watching innocent people be attacked and called slanderous names by Vicarious_Steve, DarkManX and a few others just because we didn't like the crappy movie they like.
I have been on these boards for 18 years and never once seen such nonsense. Unfortunately I got caught up it in and sunk to their level. Won't happen again.

For the record my post was worded very similar to one that Vicarious_Steve posted toward IanC or Jeremiah (unsure which at the moment) after Vicarious_Steve viciously and wrongly (and off topic) brought racism into the discussion.
It was just a way to give him a taste of his own medicine.

To stay on topic, the main reason for Solo bombing was because TLJ was so horrible fans lost faith in Disney Star Wars and were either boycotting the movie or just plain gave up hoping for a god movie from them.
Boycotting Solo due to unahppiness with TLJ and Disney/KK's politics seems to be the most logical explanation to me as well. There were numerous videos and posts from fans saying they were boycotting Solo for this very reason. I did not see a single post or video from anyone, anywhere, saying they weren't seeing Solo because the Avengers or Deadpool were still playing. Nor did I see or hear anyone say they wouldn't see Solo because there have been too many Star Wars movies recently. Those may indeed be the reasons, but the evidence is lacking. There is more than enough evidence of the intense hatred for TLJ, however.
 
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This forum, and especially this thread has been an interesting social experiment, in that allies and foes are often interchangeable, depending on the points being made. I see the gang mentality pop up a lot but the issues should really be about the topics, and not the people involved.

For my part, I am sorry for any antagonism I have caused.
I have noticed a few things that going forward, I will keep in mind.
Jokes are often lost in text as tone and expression are absent. Many times they are often mistaken as antagonism especially when at the expense of someone involved in an argument or against clashing personalities. There are some people here I won't joke with simply because I suspect they will take it in a negative way.
People see the worst in each other and take their words in the most extreme way possible. If I were to say it was nippy out today, I'd be labeled a racist.

Disagreeing isn't trolling, but attacking someone personally is certainly heading in that direction. Trolling is a word that is overused here but I'm baffled by the people that use it. Engaging a troll just empowers them. That seems counter productive. Instead of calling them out on it, wouldn't it be better to ignore (and frustrate) the person?

It is also possible for 2 people to be correct even if they disagree. Recently DarthSatan made a very logical argument and was rebutted with an emotional one. Neither were wrong.

Since we are adults, do we really need the mods to step in? Can't we self regulate? Does it matter who "started it"?
The easy answer is to simply ignore them until they go away. Arguing with them just makes both people look bad. I know I'm embarassed by some of the things I've written here in the past.

For those that don't know, VF was doxxed. He never gave us his real name so people using it are being *****y unless they didn't know that. Even if it technically doesn't break TOU, it was still a jerk move to do and done with the intent of hurting him. Historically, some people never gave out their names until they trusted the other person (so not to bewitch them). Using anything without permission is an attempt to hold power over the other person, or at the very least is just insensitive.

One final thing. We don't know the hardships each of us are going through. Someone might lash out here because their life is a train wreck. I know several members here that are struggling to make ends meet; are losing someone or something dear to them, are having an emotional crisis and other terrible things. Do we really want to add to their pain by mocking or deriding them?

In fact when you post personal messages in a thread on the board you are talking to me and everyone else. This is not your private playground. The threads have topics, they are to be respected and stuck to. That is why i suggested you take your "messages not intended for everyone to read" to PMs.
These two posts should be stickied
 
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Boycotting Solo due to unahppiness with TLJ and Disney/KK's politics seems to be the most logical explanation to me as well. There were numerous videos and posts from fans saying they were boycotting Solo for this very reason. I did not see a single post or video from anyone, anywhere, saying they weren't seeing Solo because the Avengers or Deadpool were still playing. Nor did I see or hear anyone say they wouldn't see Solo because there have been too many Star Wars movies recently. Those may indeed be the reasons, but the evidence is lacking. There is more than enough evidence of the intense hatred for TLJ, however.

You dramatically overestimate the effects of a very vocal minority and you have zero evidence that the boycott was the major cause for poor box office performance.
 
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You dramatically overestimate the effects of a very vocal minority and you have zero evidence that the boycott was the major cause for poor box office performance.
And you have zero evidence that the boycotting people are a minority and that any other reason was the major cause for poor box office performance. If you can't see that the fandom is essentially split 50/50 right now then you are blind.

Honestly both sides are conjecture, but the fact that you pose your side as the "correct" side and all others as "wrong" speaks volumes to your intent in these discussions.
 
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You dramatically overestimate the effects of a very vocal minority and you have zero evidence that the boycott was the major cause for poor box office performance.
seeing as there was no organized boycott I would agree with you. There was a bigger "boycott" for TFA then there was for Solo.

The bigger reason is the general movie audience just doesn't care about a Han Solo origin story movie.
 
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And you have zero evidence that the boycotting people are a minority and that any other reason was the major cause for poor box office performance. If you can't see that the fandom is essentially split 50/50 right now then you are blind.

Honestly both sides are conjecture, but the fact that you pose your side as the "correct" side and all others as "wrong" speaks volumes to your intent in these discussions.
You literally just ignored everything else everybody has said in this thread and stated the Last Jedi boycott was THE reason.
 
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meh, it seems it is to me... the other theories just don't make sense-it ain't saturation, it ain't no one wants to see young Solo. It's a cut your nose off to spite your face approach... like "I'll show them". LOL regardless of anything, they're just movies. Look, I'm the biggest fan you'll meet, but even if I wasn't on board w/ the TLJ approach, or "it ain't Ford", ain't gonna act like an infant about it. Solo was great, no reason for a SW fan not to see it, other than social media attention. These the same fools harassing Kelly Marie Tran? The world's full of idiots, best not to be one.
You literally just ignored everything else everybody has said in this thread and stated the Last Jedi boycott was THE reason.
 
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meh, it seems it is to me... the other theories just don't make sense-it ain't saturation, it ain't no one wants to see young Solo. It's a cut your nose off to spite your face approach... like "I'll show them". LOL regardless of anything, they're just movies. Look, I'm the biggest fan you'll meet, but even if I wasn't on board w/ the TLJ approach, or "it ain't Ford", ain't gonna act like an infant about it. Solo was great, no reason for a SW fan not to see it, other than social media attention. These the same fools harassing Kelly Marie Tran? The world's full of idiots, best not to be one.
I agree with what you're saying here, but I think the point DarkManX was making was that BoneFett was presenting his own opinion as "correct," effectively doing the very thing he was accusing DarkManX of doing. To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with BoneFett or anyone else thinking their "side" is right and the other is wrong. That's kind of what debate, discussion, and arguments are about. The point is that both "sides" do it, so it's not fair for anyone to take the moral high ground on this issue.

On topic, I absolutely think the divisiveness surrounding TLJ was at least a contributing factor to Solo's underperformance. People were less likely to flock to a new Star Wars movie five months after the one they hated so much. And that's another factor, Solo's release date was way too close to TLJ. I wonder if it would have fared better in December.

I will say this, everyone should see Solo. I'm not guaranteeing everyone will like it or saying that they should. But if you're a Star Wars fan, go see it. It's a fun movie. It's 20 bucks and a few hours out of your life. If you hated TLJ, that's fine. But don't hold that against Solo.
 
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Solo was awesome. Plain and simple. It felt more "Star Wars" than anything in years. People are boycotting the film because of TLJ for sure. How do I know? NONE OF MY FRIENDS WANTED TO GO WITH US OPENING NIGHT! When asked why they all replied "Disney is just going to ruin it like they did the Last Jedi, and I cant bear to see them tarnish Han". and this is a group of 20 or so we have seen the Thursday showings together of each film since the Prequels came out. Disney didn't just kill Star Wars, they Killed TRADITION! But everyone else's loss Solo was awesome. I still can't wrap my head around people saying R1 was better the TFA though?
 
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I was sick and tired of watching innocent people be attacked and called slanderous names by Vicarious_Steve, DarkManX and a few others just because we didn't like the crappy movie they like.
I have been on these boards for 18 years and never once seen such nonsense. Unfortunately I got caught up it in and sunk to their level. Won't happen again.
Respectfully, this is a tad disingenuous and an oversimplification of what's being going on around here the last few months.

First of all, no one is "innocent." Just about all of the regulars here (myself included) have blood on their hands, so to speak. We have ALL engaged in stupid, nasty, unnecessarily personal arguments that ultimately have nothing to do with Star Wars. Again, I'm guilty of it myself so I'm not preaching to anyone. But it is having, I think at this point, a very noticeable effect on these forums. This place has gotten ugly. I've participated in it and, frankly, I don't want to do it anymore.

Also, I have to push back on this notion that the people who didn't like TLJ are being attacked simply because they didn't like the movie. It's a little more complicated than that. This makes it sound like someone says "You know guys, I wasn't crazy about The Last Jedi" and a bunch of people just start hurling insults at them. That's just not the case. I'm not saying insults aren't hurled. I've hurled them myself. But this absolutely goes both ways. There are no innocent bystanders here. The people who did like TLJ could just as easily accuse the other side of the same thing. It wouldn't be any truer then either. The conversations usually get pretty specific about what people like or don't like about TLJ. So it's not accurate for either side to say "You're just mad because I did/didn't like the movie" or "You just can't handle it when someone has a different opinion than you." Again, this is an oversimplification.

All I know is something needs to change around here or they may as well shutter this place for good.
 
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it doesn't go both ways. nobody can even comment on Holdor's dress. not without the Rage Brigade sharpening their pitchforks and "defending" their precious movie. it's bizarre.
 
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it doesn't go both ways. nobody can even comment on Holdor's dress. not without the Rage Brigade sharpening their pitchforks and "defending" their precious movie. it's bizarre.
...this is exactly what Lister was talking about. You are allowed to talk about but other people allowedd to have a different opinion.
 
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it doesn't go both ways. nobody can even comment on Holdor's dress. not without the Rage Brigade sharpening their pitchforks and "defending" their precious movie. it's bizarre.
I read that discussion. I don't think anything said qualifies as "rage" on either side. At least not in that particular debate. Yes, people have gotten angry while discussing TLJ, no doubt. I just don't accept that it's totally one-sided. Again, I'm just not buying this nonsense that the people who didn't like TLJ are innocently stating their opinions and being attacked for it. I'm sorry, but that's not what I've seen. Everyone dishes it out. Everyone. On both sides.

I have noticed that people have started referring to Rian Johnson as Ruin Johnson. That's done by someone who didn't like TLJ to get a rise out of someone who did. That's fine if they want to do that. But then the person who does can't play the victim and claim that they're just being attacked by all the Internet meanies who liked TLJ.
 
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You dramatically overestimate the effects of a very vocal minority and you have zero evidence that the boycott was the major cause for poor box office performance.
I don't recall using the word "major." What I did say was that "a lot" of people who didn't see Solo did so for several reasons (boycotting due to TLJ, not wanting the role of Solo recast, and being upset with the way Disney/KK have handled Star Wars.)

As for evidence of a lot of people not seeing Solo for those reasons, it can be found across the internet. Here are some examples from the mainstream media:

Why I Want 'Solo: A Star Wars Story' To Fail
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2018/01/28/why-i-want-solo-a-star-wars-story-to-fail/#3011c5a52022

Why Do Some Star Wars Fans Want the Han Solo Movie to Flop?
http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/why-do-star-wars-fans-want-the-new-han-solo-movie-to-flop.html

Solo Opening Weekend Tracking Down From Early Projections
https://screenrant.com/solo-star-wars-opening-weekend-box-office/

Star Wars Solo FLOP and fan BOYCOTT: Will Disney FIRE Kathleen Kennedy?
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/968916/Star-Wars-Solo-FLOP-fan-BOYCOTT-Will-Disney-FIRE-Kathleen-Kennedy-Last-Jedi-box-office

Star Wars Fans Blame ‘The Last Jedi’ For ‘Solo’ Crashing At The Box Office
https://heroichollywood.com/star-wars-last-jedi-blame-solo/


Here are some examples from social media:

#notmystarwars
https://twitter.com/hashtag/notmystarwars?lang=en

#boycottstarwars
https://twitter.com/hashtag/boycottstarwars?lang=en

Solo : A Star Wars Story - Why I'm Not Seeing It
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esDy-XViJAM

Why I'm Boycotting Solo: A Star Wars Story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF6soQR6S_8

Why Fans Are Boycotting Solo: A Star Wars Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY7vHNV2qqE


The idea that Solo was going to suffer for the reasons I mentioned above (resentment over TLJ, Disney/KK's treatment of Star Wars, the recasting of Solo, etc...) was known before the film opened, which is why the box office projections were lowered multiple times before the film ever hit theaters.

I know some executives have blamed franchise fatigue, release date, and competition for Solo's poor performance, but I ask, where is the evidence for it? Where were the hashtags, social media posts, and outcry from fans saying things like "I'm a Star Wars fan but I can only buy one ticket this month, so I am going to choose the Avengers/Deadpool instead", or the cries of "I love Star Wars but I feel over-saturated so I am not going to see Solo"? Or, more humorously, where was the hashtag #IonlyseeStarWarsinDecember or the battle cry of "I refuse to see Solo because it isn't coming out in December!"?

It's hard to gauge whether people actually feel the way they feel, but I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time. With that in mind, when a lot of fans say they want to boycott Solo because of the reasons I mentioned earlier (anger over TLJ, anger over political aspects, bothered by recasting), I tend to believe that is actually the reason they did it, instead of some ulterior motive.

I guess I would like to finish by asking what evidence you have that people didn't see the movie because of over-saturation? And I don't mean an article someone wrote saying they think over-saturation was the reason, but instead an article that can show me how they arrived at that conclusion.

I arrived at my conclusion based on what real, actual fans said. On what do you base your conclusion?
 
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I read that discussion. I don't think anything said qualifies as "rage" on either side. At least not in that particular debate. Yes, people have gotten angry while discussing TLJ, no doubt. I just don't accept that it's totally one-sided. Again, I'm just not buying this nonsense that the people who didn't like TLJ are innocently stating their opinions and being attacked for it. I'm sorry, but that's not what I've seen. Everyone dishes it out. Everyone. On both sides.

I have noticed that people have started referring to Rian Johnson as Ruin Johnson. That's done by someone who didn't like TLJ to get a rise out of someone who did. That's fine if they want to do that. But then the person who does can't play the victim and claim that they're just being attacked by all the Internet meanies who liked TLJ.

and/or , it's auto-correct, which doesn't like the word "Rian". :p
 

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Respectfully, this is a tad disingenuous and an oversimplification of what's being going on around here the last few months.

First of all, no one is "innocent." Just about all of the regulars here (myself included) have blood on their hands, so to speak. We have ALL engaged in stupid, nasty, unnecessarily personal arguments that ultimately have nothing to do with Star Wars. Again, I'm guilty of it myself so I'm not preaching to anyone. But it is having, I think at this point, a very noticeable effect on these forums. This place has gotten ugly. I've participated in it and, frankly, I don't want to do it anymore.

Also, I have to push back on this notion that the people who didn't like TLJ are being attacked simply because they didn't like the movie. It's a little more complicated than that. This makes it sound like someone says "You know guys, I wasn't crazy about The Last Jedi" and a bunch of people just start hurling insults at them. That's just not the case. I'm not saying insults aren't hurled. I've hurled them myself. But this absolutely goes both ways. There are no innocent bystanders here. The people who did like TLJ could just as easily accuse the other side of the same thing. It wouldn't be any truer then either. The conversations usually get pretty specific about what people like or don't like about TLJ. So it's not accurate for either side to say "You're just mad because I did/didn't like the movie" or "You just can't handle it when someone has a different opinion than you." Again, this is an oversimplification.

All I know is something needs to change around here or they may as well shutter this place for good.
This is a very well thought out post. It should be stickied.

You sir, have regained my respect.


There are valid reasons on both sides to like/loath the recent movies and both sides have people with extreme viewpoints. There is a middle ground though. I've seen someone that liked Rose's character and the actor's portrayal of her charming being called a racist because they thought her story was pointless. The same viewpoint (Liking Rose/Tran) was called out for being an apologist SJW KK shill.

Star Wars is a very emotional and influential film for many of us here so logic will often take a back seat. We need to accept that, even if it doesn't make logical sense to us.

Lots of people just don't care about SW movies and wouldn't be inclined to see one, especially if they knew it wasn't a "real" one (part of the trilogy). Solo doesn't matter. It recycled props/costumes from the other movies. None of the characters will be in the trilogies. There might be an Easter egg or 2 but that is it. Had I never seen it, I could watch EIX and understand everything. I don't have to be emotionally invested in this movie since another one will be along soon enough.

Some SW fans are still emotional about TLJ and won't see it for that reason (which sends the wrong message IMO).
There are also a lot of cool movies coming out this year (moreso than other years) so people's overall movie budgets might be already taxed out so they won't see it multiple times.

I came out of Solo feeling I could go right back in and see it again but I figured I would see it again with different people. I don't feel the need to see it in theatres again though. I can wait for the DVD release and I'll be watching it frame by frame (with the monitor lightened so I can see the details) when I do.

I'm not sick of SW, but I'm sated.
The only thing I'm getting sick of are the fans. If I go to the theatre I will have to listen to them before and after. I factor that into going back or not. I used to love talking about SW to people. Now I feel I have to steel myself for it.

How are Sci-Fi movies doing in general? Are they falling out of fashion again? Could that be a factor?
 
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ehh it's not even that, it's the not bothering to find out why things were done in a film, if one cares so much, then dig a bit, everything is done or happens for a reason, does anyone truly believe the concept artists or costume designers had an agenda for this costume? ..really? but of course it's all about stifling opinions in the end though, isn't it, ugh the endless nonsense is staggering...www.snowflakescum.com should be this site's name.
it doesn't go both ways. nobody can even comment on Holdor's dress. not without the Rage Brigade sharpening their pitchforks and "defending" their precious movie. it's bizarre.
 
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right---LOL it's funny as ***** ain't it. and the "ruined" thing, again an opinion deemed as fact. Heard all this in the PT era, it's so funny the echo. Just get off the OT teet already, and grab a thala-siren's-you should all be grown ups by now.
Solo was awesome. Plain and simple. It felt more "Star Wars" than anything in years. People are boycotting the film because of TLJ for sure. How do I know? NONE OF MY FRIENDS WANTED TO GO WITH US OPENING NIGHT! When asked why they all replied "Disney is just going to ruin it like they did the Last Jedi, and I cant bear to see them tarnish Han". and this is a group of 20 or so we have seen the Thursday showings together of each film since the Prequels came out. Disney didn't just kill Star Wars, they Killed TRADITION! But everyone else's loss Solo was awesome. I still can't wrap my head around people saying R1 was better the TFA though?
 
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Interesting to talk about stifling others’ opinions when those same individuals are the very ones who pounce to ridicule the opinions they don’t agree with. Just everyone calm it down with the attacks, name-calling, and ridicule

Holdo looked out of place because she was supposedly a military leader. You don’t see any pictures of an admiral on a war ship heading to the beaches of Normandy wearing a tuxedo, and you don’t see any of the other military personnel wearing dresses or skirts on the battlefield. Leia and Holdo both looked out of place. I dont state there was any agenda to the costume choice, just that it didn’t look like they were dressed for the occasion and that didn’t lend much credibility to believing they were in a wartime scenario and that they were in charge of the troops.


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Holdo looked out of place because she was supposedly a military leader. You don’t see any pictures of an admiral on a war ship heading to the beaches of Normandy wearing a tuxedo, and you don’t see any of the other military personnel wearing dresses or skirts on the battlefield. Leia and Holdo both looked out of place. I dont state there was any agenda to the costume choice, just that it didn’t look like they were dressed for the occasion and that didn’t lend much credibility to believing they were in a wartime scenario and that they were in charge of the troops.


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There you have it folks..."Solo" underperformed at the box office because Holdo wore a dress.

Or...maybe we are drifting off-topic for the sake of continuing an argument again...
 
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There you have it folks..."Solo" underperformed at the box office because Holdo wore a dress.

Or...maybe we are drifting off-topic for the sake of continuing an argument again...
But if that's one reason people didn't like TLJ and decided not to see Solo then I suppose that statement does hold merit.
 
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There you have it folks..."Solo" underperformed at the box office because Holdo wore a dress.

Or...maybe we are drifting off-topic for the sake of continuing an argument again...
Ok funny guy. I mentioned the dress because everybody is arguing that point in several different threads.

Solo is under-performing because of many factors, including it just doesn’t look that interesting to the casual onlooker. Add to that the disappointment over TLJ, Star Wars is slowly turning into “just another blockbuster” rather than the must-see, legendary Star Wars of yesterday.




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Interesting to talk about stifling others’ opinions when those same individuals are the very ones who pounce to ridicule the opinions they don’t agree with. Just everyone calm it down with the attacks, name-calling, and ridicule
I'm only addressing this because I know you're talking about me. If you'll notice, I acknowledged several times that I was a participant in the craziness that's been going on around here. It was actually a major part of the points I was making. Can you do the same? Because if you can't and you're going to paint our arguments as me "attacking" you and you sitting there in a corner like a shrinking violet who can't defend himself against the big bad Internet bully, well, that will actually go a long way to proving my point.

Holdo looked out of place because she was supposedly a military leader. You don’t see any pictures of an admiral on a war ship heading to the beaches of Normandy wearing a tuxedo, and you don’t see any of the other military personnel wearing dresses or skirts on the battlefield. Leia and Holdo both looked out of place. I dont state there was any agenda to the costume choice, just that it didn’t look like they were dressed for the occasion and that didn’t lend much credibility to believing they were in a wartime scenario and that they were in charge of the troops.


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Believe it or not, I agree. It is out of the ordinary for an admiral to be dressed the way Holdo was. It is consistent to an extent with the way Mon Mothma dresses in ROTJ, but you're right, Mon Mothma isn't portrayed in a battlefield situation while dressed like that.
 
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Star Wars is slowly turning into “just another blockbuster” rather than the must-see, legendary Star Wars of yesterday.




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That may very well be the case, but that might just be the natural progression of the franchise in the 21st century. I think someone else may have pointed this out here first so I'm probably ripping this point off to some degree, but it's important to look at what the cinematic landscape was when the Star Wars saga was new and what it's like now. In the late 70s/early 80s, blockbuster sci-fi movies were special, they were a big deal. That's not the case four decades later. It's much more difficult for Star Wars to distinguish itself in the year 2018 than it was in 77, 80, and 83. It's now competing, somewhat ironically, against movies in the genre it helped redefine 40 years ago.
 
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This is a very well thought out post. It should be stickied.

You sir, have regained my respect.


There are valid reasons on both sides to like/loath the recent movies and both sides have people with extreme viewpoints. There is a middle ground though. I've seen someone that liked Rose's character and the actor's portrayal of her charming being called a racist because they thought her story was pointless. The same viewpoint (Liking Rose/Tran) was called out for being an apologist SJW KK shill.

Star Wars is a very emotional and influential film for many of us here so logic will often take a back seat. We need to accept that, even if it doesn't make logical sense to us.

Lots of people just don't care about SW movies and wouldn't be inclined to see one, especially if they knew it wasn't a "real" one (part of the trilogy). Solo doesn't matter. It recycled props/costumes from the other movies. None of the characters will be in the trilogies. There might be an Easter egg or 2 but that is it. Had I never seen it, I could watch EIX and understand everything. I don't have to be emotionally invested in this movie since another one will be along soon enough.

Some SW fans are still emotional about TLJ and won't see it for that reason (which sends the wrong message IMO).
There are also a lot of cool movies coming out this year (moreso than other years) so people's overall movie budgets might be already taxed out so they won't see it multiple times.

I came out of Solo feeling I could go right back in and see it again but I figured I would see it again with different people. I don't feel the need to see it in theatres again though. I can wait for the DVD release and I'll be watching it frame by frame (with the monitor lightened so I can see the details) when I do.

I'm not sick of SW, but I'm sated.
The only thing I'm getting sick of are the fans. If I go to the theatre I will have to listen to them before and after. I factor that into going back or not. I used to love talking about SW to people. Now I feel I have to steel myself for it.

How are Sci-Fi movies doing in general? Are they falling out of fashion again? Could that be a factor?
Much appreciated.
 
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That may very well be the case, but that might just be the natural progression of the franchise in the 21st century. I think someone else may have pointed this out here first so I'm probably ripping this point off to some degree, but it's important to look at what the cinematic landscape was when the Star Wars saga was new and what it's like now. In the late 70s/early 80s, blockbuster sci-fi movies were special, they were a big deal. That's not the case four decades later. It's much more difficult for Star Wars to distinguish itself in the year 2018 than it was in 77, 80, and 83. It's now competing, somewhat ironically, against movies in the genre it helped redefine 40 years ago.
I can see that. Star Wars used to be the movie everyone wanted to see partly because it was usually pushing the envelope with regard to practical special effects. They were doing things no other studio was doing at the time. It was a cut above anything else in the theater. The ante kept getting raised. That seems harder to do these days.

I think the last movie I saw that pushed the envelope and gave me that wow factor was Avatar.
 
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The issue is not special effects. It's plain and simple they can longer write a Cohesive
Story. Even Kasdan is done. He proved that on the Disney SW Movies. No Story No Movie. It just now a Summer Movie forgotten a week after it leaves the theater.
 
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I can see that. Star Wars used to be the movie everyone wanted to see partly because it was usually pushing the envelope with regard to practical special effects. They were doing things no other studio was doing at the time. It was a cut above anything else in the theater. The ante kept getting raised. That seems harder to do these days.

I think the last movie I saw that pushed the envelope and gave me that wow factor was Avatar.
Even by the prequel era, things had already changed drastically. The LOTR movies were being released at about the same time and I thought they trounced the prequels in every way. And not just in terms of special effects. The writing, acting, direction, character development, everything was better. I don't want to get off on a prequel-bashing tangent but the LOTR were simply better made movies, in my opinion. Here we had another fantasy trilogy that treads on a lot of the same thematic ground as Star Wars (obviously because SW was heavily influenced by Tolkein), but it outshines it at every turn. I don't think Lucas was prepared for that. He thought Star Wars would still be top dog no matter what, but there was some real competition. The MCU has upped the ante even more in the last ten years.
 
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I can see that. Star Wars used to be the movie everyone wanted to see partly because it was usually pushing the envelope with regard to practical special effects. They were doing things no other studio was doing at the time. It was a cut above anything else in the theater. The ante kept getting raised. That seems harder to do these days.
The studios pushed those movies though, and pushed 'em hard. Likewise, Disney pushed TFA and TLJ (and R1 too) in ways they just did not push "Solo." They were trying to downplay the new lead actor to the point we barely saw his face or heard his voice (and that goes for choices in the movie too. There was a lot of hiding Han.) They were trying to not have to talk about switching directors mid-stream, so we couldn't mention Ron Howard, never mind how acclaimed he is.

I have a feeling that once all the drama happened the studio people said, "you know what, let's just see how well a Star Wars movie does without the marketing push. Have we been wasting money advertising these things when people will show up anyway? Let's find out."

Well, they found out. And I bet they won't let the marketing get this bungled again.
 
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Why is "Solo" underperforming at the box office? (SPOILER-FREE ZONE)

I'm only addressing this because I know you're talking about me. If you'll notice, I acknowledged several times that I was a participant in the craziness that's been going on around here. It was actually a major part of the points I was making. Can you do the same? Because if you can't and you're going to paint our arguments as me "attacking" you and you sitting there in a corner like a shrinking violet who can't defend himself against the big bad Internet bully, well, that will actually go a long way to proving my point.



Believe it or not, I agree. It is out of the ordinary for an admiral to be dressed the way Holdo was. It is consistent to an extent with the way Mon Mothma dresses in ROTJ, but you're right, Mon Mothma isn't portrayed in a battlefield situation while dressed like that.
I wasn’t referring specifically to you, but I’m sorry if you took specific issue. Interesting wording though, having an olive branch in one hand and an arrow in the other. I will say this though, don’t attack me and I won’t respond to it. Fair?

Let’s drop it and continue with discussion on-topic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I can see that. Star Wars used to be the movie everyone wanted to see partly because it was usually pushing the envelope with regard to practical special effects. They were doing things no other studio was doing at the time. It was a cut above anything else in the theater. The ante kept getting raised. That seems harder to do these days.

I think the last movie I saw that pushed the envelope and gave me that wow factor was Avatar.

This. When the original Star Wars movies came out, The Incredible Hulk was a bodybuilder in green paint that would fight crooks trying to fix a bull riding competition. Now the Hulk looks like he does in the comics and is tearing up gigantic alien warships with his bare hands.
 
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I will chime in w/o reading the last 4 pages, only to say I think it is time to let it go. Lister, Utinniii and a couple others have some recent posts that are very accurate and explain the problems here very well.

As much as we all are guilty of joining in here and there, as am I at times. What is to be gained by constantly going at it for days on end, post after post? Nobody is exactly winning anything here. You're not gonna convince the haters to love it, and vise versa. I think it really is time to drop it and move on. This place just ins't as fun to frequent anymore, and I fear we're going to be left with only the people who like to bicker daily. You're not adding to the community, you're taking away from it.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was a legitimate discussion about this or that, but it just turns out to be obstinate tirade of having to be right regardless of actual facts.
Can we pleas try to get back to the older RS, where there's at least a little civility. And basic Human decency towards your Common person?
 
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I can see that. Star Wars used to be the movie everyone wanted to see partly because it was usually pushing the envelope with regard to practical special effects. They were doing things no other studio was doing at the time. It was a cut above anything else in the theater. The ante kept getting raised. That seems harder to do these days.

I think the last movie I saw that pushed the envelope and gave me that wow factor was Avatar.
Effects were really only a small part of the 'Star Wars' phenomena of 1977, though - even with the fanfare they quite rightly received. But without the interesting story and, especially, the world building, it wouldn't have attracted as much of a loyal following that it did. Lucas' crowning achievement in that film was not ILM. It was the fact that he made his universe a believable one. It was something that looked like it could have existed and people could buy into it with little effort on their behalf. 'Star Wars' was a film that you could become absorbed in, not just for the 2 hours it was on, but for a long time after that.

That was a rare thing. Before 'Star Wars' you had disco sci-fi, like 'Logan's Run' or dystopian future shock type movies, like 'A Boy and his Dog' or 'Silent Running'. All perfectly fine films. But they lacked the lived in world look of Lucas' film. It was that dynamic that allowed audiences to fully immerse themselves into the film.

This is where these new Diswars movies are let down. The world building has already been done, so they're just rifflng on that - without truly understanding it, it has to be said - and their stories are pretty uninteresting, especially in comparison with the original films. These "star wars" films are just average blockbuster fare now and the studio set out to make them so - whereas 'Star Wars' was never made as such. They are also made by people who aren't really that creative (Rian Johnson aside, who I think IS a good director, but not for Star Wars). The whole thing is overseen by a bean counter and it was kicked off by one of the worst things to happen to cinema in the last 20 years. Kennedy might be a "great" producer, but she isn't artistically inclined and Abrams is a magpie director, who's entire vision was nicked from someone else and who's shtick is rebooting things that have already had the bulk of the work done.

So, in the end, it was obvious that Diswars was just going to end up the way that it has.

Lucas had a dream, even if it was a dream that was tempered by a large creative team and the de jour practicalities of film-making. It was a dream he eventually lost the run of, but it was still born out of a wish to put the things he had in his head onto the screen for the love of doing it.

Disney dream of money and milking a franchise they had no real part in creating.

It's simply something that they bought.
 
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