Why is "Solo" underperforming at the box office?

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Keep it spoiler free, please.
https://www.cbr.com/ron-howard-solo-a-star-wars-story-box-office-projections/

In some corners of media, the movie is already being called a "flop." I would argue that is both premature and subjective, and I'm one of those who are skeptical about the need for such a movie, much less the recasting.
But why are the numbers below predictions, particularly after a strong Thursday? I can identify just a handful of reasons for the average viewer:
1 - Recasting. It's not Ford, Mayhew and Williams, so it's not Solo, Chewbacca and Calrissian. At least we got "Young Indiana Jones Adventures" on broadcast TV.
2 - Brand Fatigue. It's been barely five months since "The Last Jedi."
3 - Backlash. Whether it's conservative-specific (sorry, mods, but this is a legitimate discussion on the franchise far, far away [and if folks on here are not mature enough to handle it, then those who are, please PM me and we can take it to FB]) objections to TLJ subplots, anger over the portrayal of Luke in that movie, or general anti-Disney feeling over its stewardship of the saga, there is much more pure vitriol out there than was ever directed at the bearded godfather of the Gungans.
 
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Agreed on all three counts but i’d say the primary reason is the recasting of Ford. Tough to fill the shoes of such an iconic character as Ford owned that role.
 
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I honestly think it's fatigue and backlash.

In my small town cinema they have always offered an advanced screening of new Star Wars movies on Thursday night since TFA if there is enough prior interest. They did not offer an advanced screening for Solo which I suspect was due to a lack of interest. Went to the first showing Friday evening and there was maybe 50 people total. For TFA, RO, and TLJ, the 300 seat theater was nearly sold out or sold out.

So IMO fatigue, plus TLJ leaving a bad taste in a lot of movie goes mouths, is making for a lousy box office run for Solo.
 
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it's not brand fatigue. Marvel can release 3 movies a year and it doesn't hurt their brand.

the fans have lost faith. plain and simple.
 
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it's not brand fatigue. Marvel can release 3 movies a year and it doesn't hurt their brand.
Well, I am very fatigued with Marvel by now, and I hope they will stop after Infinity War 2... haha, as if they ever would...
 
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It's a combination of people "punishing" Disney for 'The Last Jedi' and just a general lack of interest in an origin film about a beloved character that nobody wanted.

Disney just doesn't know how to handle Star Wars. They're like that kid that always wanted something they turned down when they were offered it first and always regretted it. Then when the get "it", they don't really know what to do with "it".

The bottom line is that 'Solo' should never have been made. Or, at least not made in the fashion that it was. A heist movie in the Star Wars universe is perfectly fine, but it should have been about entirely new people. Hanging it on Hank Solo and having to do a checklist of Solo motifs was always just, simply, a bad idea. It really should just have been 'Kelly's Heroes' in space. But, Disney thought they'd stick Solo in there and fans would go wild. But, the majority of fans, I'd wager, don't want to see their favorite characters recast with someone barely resembling them and they certainly don't want to see them killed off or reduced to miserable hermits.

They really just don't get it.
 
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My thoughts on Solo and Star wars today.

Americans never tire of anything. Look around, y’all, we hate to tire of stuff. From our cold dead hands will we let something go. We love sameness, the comfort of predictability, the sense that the earth has stopped turning, which means time isn’t passing, which means we are not going to die. Good grief, we are so scared of dying, so terrified of change, that sometime in June of 1995 we froze our clothes, hair, and decorating styles in amber.

Fatigue? From Americans? Sorry, no. The only way to get us to move along is if it sucks … which brings me back to Star Wars. How badly is Solo under-performing? Oh, it’s bad.

Keeping in mind that the trades reporting on Solo’s box office tend to suck up to the studios by making things sound better than they really are — and things still look bad. Over this four-day Memorial Day weekend, Solo is belly-flopping at right around $114 million. Solo’s three-day take (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) is $93 million.

Comparing apples-to-apples, here are the three-day openings…

Solo: $92 million

The Last Jedi: $220 million

Rogue One: $155 million

When you figure in for inflation, even the dreaded prequels (that opened on a lot fewer screens) will out-perform Solo.

The Phantom Menace opened to $114 million (2970 screens) in 1999, Attack of the Clones opened to $126 million (3161 screens) in 2002, and Revenge of the Sith opened to $153 million (3663 screens) in 2005.

Solo opened on a whopping 4400 screens.

For an even clearer perspective, on its opening Friday, Rogue One earned $71 million. Solo made about half that, $36.5 million.

Internationally, that magical place where most domestic box office bombs go to thrive, Solo is even doing worse. In 43 markets, over two whole days, Solo made a paltry $11.4 million.

So what is happening? Why such a collapse? Two words: Kathleen and Kennedy.

Kathleen Kennedy is the 65-year-old producer in charge of the Star Wars franchise. She is also a committed social justice warrior and feminist who is using the Star Wars franchise to push her agenda.Kennedy undoubtedly believed that with such a beloved and iconic property, she was bulletproof; that she could be as strident and obnoxious as she pleased, and we stupid Americans would still slavishly get the line because spaceships and laser-guns are cool ‘n stuff.

She was wrong, and The Last Jedi was the beginning of the end. It under-preformed big-time at the box office and its overbearing political moments were not only eye-rollingly awful, they damaged the overall story while tainting the entire franchise. Kennedy has placed her agenda over the storytelling, and the result was especially awful in Last Jedi, like that two-hour chase that went nowhere. Worse still, was Kennedy’s decision to dumb down Oscar Issac’s Poe Dameron into a sexist caveman when he is, by far, the most charismatic new character in the new trilogy.

Solo also has its SJW moments. Who doesn’t love watching a five-foot girl who weighs in at about 85 pounds kicking the *** of a grown man? Then there is the feminist droid always harping about equal rights (thankfully, she is killed off quickly). Finally, we are hit with the news that the iconic Lando Calrissian is a “pansexual,” and there are a couple moments in Solo where you are given the impression that includes *** with feminist droids.

Kathleen Kennedy is killing the Star Wars franchise because she is so drastically changing it ( remember what I said above about Americans not liking change?). What used to be escapist and mythical, what was once wondrous and ennobling of the human spirit, is now pedantic, preachy, and small-minded.

Kennedy is not appealing to our sense of adventure and shared aspirations, she is hectoring and scolding us. She is not appealing to our shared humanity, she is dividing us up into tribal camps based on race gender, color, and where we like to put our *** organs.

Kathleen Kennedy is such a bad storyteller, so heavy-handed, so selfish, so narcissistic, so wrong, so divisive, so out of touch, that a Star Wars movie — a Star Wars movie, y’all –– will probably lose money.

Decades of goodwill have been squandered, the golden goose has been made constipated.Go Woke, Go Broke as the saying goes
 

GNT

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1 - Recasting. It's not Ford, Mayhew and Williams, so it's not Solo, Chewbacca and Calrissian. At least we got "Young Indiana Jones Adventures" on broadcast TV.
Ford maybe but Mayhew now so much. Chewbacca is pretty much the same as always.

i don't think Disney has a plan for the franchise going forward. Maybe something like the MCU would work for Star Wars, work towards something big instead of random movies going nowhere.
 
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OT fan backlash ..
Caused by TLJ story / plot..
Simple as that..Sad but true..
Seen solo twice..
Great movie.. OT fans are missing out if they haven't seen Solo due to their TLJ disapproval of how things turn out in the movie
 
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She is also a committed social justice warrior and feminist


bla bla blubberlutsch

I actually liked L3-37. She was not a charming character but who says that a movie should only contain characters you agree with and you would share your house with.

I would have liked Rey too except her hero's journey was nonexistent and her storyline botched, and then ruined in TLJ with bad retcons for TFA.

(I did not like Holdo or Rose but not because they were female characters - they would have been badly written as men or aliens or droids as well.)

Poe's big issue in TLJ is that his character arc was left hanging. He made an error in judgement early on and was not allowed to learn or grow from that.

Okay, but what is wrong with "Solo"? I guess nothing is actually "wrong". The movie was entertaining and competently done, and as fan service I personally liked it very much (except for the naming scene which was dumb). The problem is that Disney aims for MORE BOOM, MORE BANG, MORE REVENUE all the time, and actually expects every movie to outperform the last one. Sorry, House of the Mouse, that doesn't work at all. "Solo" had a limited audience from the very beginning.

The fan audience it aims at is served with all the right story points and all the inter-franchise links the writer could cram in (delightful, actually). The movie is even well told, and I like the performance of the actors despite all initial reservations.

BUT

Even within the fandom, there are people who just don't want this movie.
Those whose headcanon has been established long ago.
Those who are fine with some mystery and unknown details around the characters.
Those for whom Harrison Ford can be the only Solo.
Those who still go with the Old EU.

And then there is the rest of the moviegoers, who only casually know the franchise.
On them, the references are lost, and at least one of them will be irritating.
The final fate of the main characters is already known.
They did not ask for a resolution of some casual remarks about Han's past.
They might miss the lightsaber duels.
For those that know the bits Solo's past, the movie becomes predictable, playing "connect the dots".

I predicted long ago that this will not be the movie to join everybody in the theaters, fan and non-fan alike, and spread the Gospel of Star Wars. Simply because it's a niche movie that, like all prequels, can only answer the question "how did they get there?" and not "where are they going?".

And then there are the outward circumstances. First, the fact that Disney has maybe somewhat competent writers, but no great or outstanding ones. And they don't have any worldbuilder at all. And worst, they don't care about that (as was proven early on when they killed the Clone Wars series without even allowing for a resolution of the storylines). They arrogantly killed the old EU and then didn't plan for a new one, resurrecting old EU stuff randomly (and sometimes badly) instead of straightening out Star Wars lore. They didn't even care that their own movies don't match up (with TLJ destroying setups from TFA and obviously nobody planning for the cross-movie consistency). Fans are growing tired with that.

Second, "Solo" was debated and planned into the ground from the beginning. Firing the directors, doubting Ron Howard, claiming that Ehrenreich doesn't get it, wailing about Harrison Ford. Neither Disney itself nor the press nor the fans had any confidence in this movie. The fans might have been (some still are) most obnoxious about it. Starting some SJW debate certainly doesn't help.

And third, "Solo" has now to fight against all the errors from the past, with a mere 6 months after the previous movie, and right on top of that movie's DVD release. It's not franchise fatigue, it's franchise frustration.
 
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Keep it spoiler free, please.
https://www.cbr.com/ron-howard-solo-a-star-wars-story-box-office-projections/

In some corners of media, the movie is already being called a "flop." I would argue that is both premature and subjective, and I'm one of those who are skeptical about the need for such a movie, much less the recasting.
But why are the numbers below predictions, particularly after a strong Thursday? I can identify just a handful of reasons for the average viewer:
1 - Recasting. It's not Ford, Mayhew and Williams, so it's not Solo, Chewbacca and Calrissian. At least we got "Young Indiana Jones Adventures" on broadcast TV.
2 - Brand Fatigue. It's been barely five months since "The Last Jedi."
3 - Backlash. Whether it's conservative-specific (sorry, mods, but this is a legitimate discussion on the franchise far, far away [and if folks on here are not mature enough to handle it, then those who are, please PM me and we can take it to FB]) objections to TLJ subplots, anger over the portrayal of Luke in that movie, or general anti-Disney feeling over its stewardship of the saga, there is much more pure vitriol out there than was ever directed at the bearded godfather of the Gungans.
It's a little of 1 and a lot of 3. I've seen countless videos online of fans objecting to Disney's treatment of Star Wars and refusing to see anything else until Disney gets the point.

I have not seen one video or read one comment from a Star Wars fan anywhere wishing for fewer or even no new Star Wars films. It doesn't even make much sense, to be honest.

Star Wars fans want Star Wars films, and they only have 2 requirements as a general rule -- it has to be good, and it has to honor the original trilogy. For a lot of fans, these new films have largely failed to do either. It isn't hard to figure out that shoving political ideologies down a paying customer's throat and then lecturing them when they don't enjoy it probably isn't a good idea either.

Honestly, Disney could've avoided all this if they'd just been faithful to Star Wars.
 
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Poe's big issue in TLJ is that his character arc was left hanging. He made an error in judgement early on and was not allowed to learn or grow from that.
Are you sure? Early on he's all "let's all just fly in head on and blast our way through!" and loads of people die as a result because he can't see the bigger picture beyond blowing up what's in front of him. So gets demoted and and is thus out of the loop on future decisions and has to earn his way back into the good graces of leadership (granted the Poe / Holdo stuff is a bit of forced drama but it's needed for his arc). He witnesses the struggle leaders have in deciding to fight or deciding to run. He later applies this by recognizing the futility of the attack on the big gun on Crait and assesses the situation tactically as opposed to simply trying to blow stuff up. This pays off when suggests his plan to retreat and everyone looks at Leia and she's all "why are you looking at me? He's in charge!"
 
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Plain and simple Solo is a flop because of The Last Jedi.

I hated TLJ but quit enjoyed Solo. A solid if not spectacular film.
 
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Are you sure? Early on he's all "let's all just fly in head on and blast our way through!" and loads of people die as a result because he can't see the bigger picture beyond blowing up what's in front of him. So gets demoted and and is thus out of the loop on future decisions and has to earn his way back into the good graces of leadership (granted the Poe / Holdo stuff is a bit of forced drama but it's needed for his arc). He witnesses the struggle leaders have in deciding to fight or deciding to run. He later applies this by recognizing the futility of the attack on the big gun on Crait and assesses the situation tactically as opposed to simply trying to blow stuff up. This pays off when suggests his plan to retreat and everyone looks at Leia and she's all "why are you looking at me? He's in charge!"
Interesting interpretation, I'd like to disagree though.

As far as Crait goes, I always thought that he had learned nothing - the attack on the AT-M6's reflects his earlier bomber run. The rickety flyers are not able to do any damage to the walkers, which was painfully obvious to everybody, and almost all the pilots are killed - again! This was not tactical thinking at all, it was a desperate attempt to go out in a blaze of glory because there were no options left (just like Finn tries at the end, with no good reason as the AT-M6's would have shot him down if he had continued). I can see that Poe is groomed (at least by the movie director) to become the next resistance leader, but I really wondered why him, because everything Holdo said about him is true. (And the whole retreat was a rather mysterious action, as no one asked where Luke was coming from, and no one knew where to go, and they would have gotten stuck anyway if not for Rey removing the boulders.)

Holdo on the other hand keeping Poe out of the loop seemed like a spiteful move by someone who has a beef with Poe (which came out of thin air, as no history of the two characters was established). The resistance leadership was small enough as it was; there was no reason to hide the plan from Poe; Poe wasn't even going to learn anything from not knowing something (well, duh!). Holdo looked to me like someone who just hated, disrespected, and despised Poe and wanted him out of the way. Which then backfired in the familiar way.

Between Holdo and Poe, they destroyed the resistance. Good work everyone!

And Leia acted out of character by first slapping Poe and then shooting him. That was cheap.
 
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Could it be immense competition with better movies, lack of interest in the concept, and the toxicity of the fanbase killed this movie? No no, Rian Johnson did this! You SJW hack fraud!
 
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As far as Crait goes, I always thought that he had learned nothing - the attack on the AT-M6's reflects his earlier bomber run. The rickety flyers are not able to do any damage to the walkers, which was painfully obvious to everybody, and almost all the pilots are killed - again! This was not tactical thinking at all, it was a desperate attempt to go out in a blaze of glory because there were no options left (just like Finn tries at the end, with no good reason as the AT-M6's would have shot him down if he had continued).
You have to show and not tell though. So during the attack you see dudes getting picked off and Poe realises the futility of it. You can't just have him go "No, let's not go and attack. Let's all have a nice sit down and a cup of tea and come up with something else" as that would be terrible both dramatically and visually.

I can see that Poe is groomed (at least by the movie director) to become the next resistance leader, but I really wondered why him, because everything Holdo said about him is true. (And the whole retreat was a rather mysterious action, as no one asked where Luke was coming from, and no one knew where to go, and they would have gotten stuck anyway if not for Rey removing the boulders.)
They didn't know the boulders were there. Also, pretty sure Poe does say something about Luke getting in so there must be a way out. They see the foxes legging it as well.

Holdo on the other hand keeping Poe out of the loop seemed like a spiteful move by someone who has a beef with Poe (which came out of thin air, as no history of the two characters was established). The resistance leadership was small enough as it was; there was no reason to hide the plan from Poe; Poe wasn't even going to learn anything from not knowing something (well, duh!). Holdo looked to me like someone who just hated, disrespected, and despised Poe and wanted him out of the way. Which then backfired in the familiar way.
There was reason to 'hide the plan' the same way she hides the plan from Derek the toilet attendant. He'd been demoted. Just because he's a main character to the audience doesn't mean that everyone in the film has to treat him like he's super important. It's not my favourite portion of the film and a bit clumsy in places but I'm not on board with the idea that everyone in-universe has to treat these characters as special just because their face is on the poster.

Between Holdo and Poe, they destroyed the resistance. Good work everyone!
Holdo's plan was alright in the circumstances. It was only DJ telling the FO about it that got the little ships blown up. And Poe, yes, got people killed, and then learned from that and ordered a retreat.

And Leia acted out of character by first slapping Poe and then shooting him. That was cheap.
If she admonishes him once for disobeying orders and then admonishes him again for disobeying, I'd say that was in character.
 
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The justified backlash against "The Last Jedi" has played a part, but the main factors are likely...

1: Wilful poor casting of a younger Han with an actor with zero resemblance to Harrison Ford when other far better choices where available. The character is not the same as recasting a Batman, Bond, Sherlock etc. its a character created & defined by one actor.

2: Pointless redesign of the Millennium Falcon, It should look "newer" but not that drastically different. The less detailed exterior set looks like a something cobbled together for a 80's TV Movie. We're expected to believe it changes that much in the 10 years before Star Wars then stays the same for 35 years.

3: Have idiot writer to declare long established ladies man Lando is "Pan ******" before the Movie opens. thus alienating multi ticket buying Families + Black men already disappointed at Finn turning out to be a janitor rather than "Jedi" lead.

4: Having ruined Han's character in the Force Awaken by destroying his Marriage with Leia, regressing his character development back 35 years & killing him in an idiotic rather than heroic way, why should audiences care?
 
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The justified backlash against "The Last Jedi" has played a part, but the main factors are likely...

1: Wilful poor casting of a younger Han with an actor with zero resemblance to Harrison Ford when other far better choices where available. The character is not the same as recasting a Batman, Bond, Sherlock etc. its a character created & defined by one actor.

2: Pointless redesign of the Millennium Falcon, It should look "newer" but not that drastically different. The less detailed exterior set looks like a something cobbled together for a 80's TV Movie. We're expected to believe it changes that much in the 10 years before Star Wars then stays the same for 35 years.

3: Have idiot writer to declare long established ladies man Lando is "Pan ******" before the Movie opens. thus alienating multi ticket buying Families + Black men already disappointed at Finn turning out to be a janitor rather than "Jedi" lead.

4: Having ruined Han's character in the Force Awaken by destroying his Marriage with Leia, regressing his character development back 35 years & killing him in an idiotic rather than heroic way, why should audiences care?
Only Star Wars 'fans' care about any of that and despite what they say most will go and see it. It's the normal people who aren't particularly interested in Solo probably because it's a bit too niche. It's also fallen a few weeks after Infinity War and a week or so after Deadpool 2.
 
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Recasting has nothing to do with it. Chewbacca? Who the hell besides us would know the difference. Lando isn't that iconic and Glover is on fire right now. The whole Alden/Ford thing MAYBE but they have been recasting characters in Hollywood for years and the younger audience (I don't mean like 7 year olds; I mean the generation that didn't necessarily grow up with the OT) probably doesn't really care.

It's brand fatigue and TLJ backlash. It's been 5 months since TLJ and it's complete disregard for the legacy fans has done (possible) irreparable damage.

Now I do think Solo may have some legs but not enough to save it from "bombing". I feel it will get some more repeat viewings from the older fan. I know personally I've see it more than once just like all other Star Wars movies in the theater BESIDES TLJ...I wanted my money back for me one ticket.
 
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You have to show and not tell though. So during the attack you see dudes getting picked off and Poe realises the futility of it. You can't just have him go "No, let's not go and attack. Let's all have a nice sit down and a cup of tea and come up with something else" as that would be terrible both dramatically and visually.
I don't think the "show, don't tell" rule should hurt the internal logic of the story. The logical path would be: There is no way the sky speeders can do anything against the AT-M6's, so do something else (hole up in the mine and kill as many stormtroopers as possible, e.g.). And it should have been Poe's duty to see that. I think this might have made a good scene too: Someone discovers the ski speeders and suggests, "Let's attack the walkers!" (as reflection of Poe's past). And then Poe comes over and strokes the machines and obviously dreams of just hitting the FO and burn everything down in his path, but reconsiders and recommends something else, and THAT is the moment we see that he has grown beyond the hotshot pilot stuff.

(And then Finn takes a speeder and attacks anyway, or whatever.)

The director just wanted another action scene there, but I think it just doesn't work as action scene either, because it's just the FO picking off the ski speeders one by one. Okay, I can see why the director wanted that, but when I saw TLJ for the first time, I was like WHY ARE THEY DOING THAT NOW? and then the AT-M6's started shooting and TURN AROUND YOU IDIOTS and they still didn't veer off before Finn got his foiled shot at glory (another thing though) and there was practically no one left.

So, at that point Poe has become a great leader because... "Hey Leia! I didn't figure out that these rickety flyers would stand no chance against a walker, and totally overestimated our chances because I'm just that incompetent, and everyone was killed because I didn't break off immediately, or maybe everyone was killed because I started that attack in the first place, but now you don't have any pilots left and I am totally irreplacable, right? So can I be the resistance leader now?"

I see your point, and maybe that is what the director wanted to express, but it doesn't work for me.

They didn't know the boulders were there. Also, pretty sure Poe does say something about Luke getting in so there must be a way out. They see the foxes legging it as well.
They assumed there was no exit because of the droids' scans, and the vulptices' disappearance was only noticed after they already decided to retreat. I guess the Luke thing might make sense, but nobody asks him where the exit is, and if Luke even has a ship to carry all the survivors, or just an X-Wing. Because it is fairly meaningless if they find an exit but no way off Crait.

What's worse, Leia seems to notice that Luke is just a projection. I don't know if this is really the case, but if it is - she allows Poe to retreat towards an exit that may not be there because Luke never used an exit to get in.
These people never talk to each other! They just assume, and then do something, and it's sheer luck that anyone survives at all.

There was reason to 'hide the plan' the same way she hides the plan from Derek the toilet attendant. He'd been demoted. Just because he's a main character to the audience doesn't mean that everyone in the film has to treat him like he's super important. It's not my favourite portion of the film and a bit clumsy in places but I'm not on board with the idea that everyone in-universe has to treat these characters as special just because their face is on the poster.
I'm fine with him not being the super important top notch Rebel leader (of whom we only know a selected few though). Poe is not a toilet attendant though, or a rebel grunt. He was obviously in command of the whole fighter fleet before, and he knew Leia personally, and he was trusted enough to go to find Lor San Tekka. So whatever worth he had for the resistance goes out of the window when Leia demotes him as punishment? Leia is more or less saying, "I can't trust you not killing the pilots under your command, so you can't be in a position to send people to their deaths any more." (Until on Crait, where he does the same again with the unspoken consent of Leia.) How many people are in that resistance, how many specialists, so they can afford to ignore Poe's knowledge, not involve him, and not hear his opinion on the plan?

If the plan involved toilets, I would make sure to hear from Derek the toilet attendant too. Again, people not talking to each other.

Sure, if you see it from a military hierarchy standpoint, then Holdo is maybe right, although she seemed righteously gleeful about telling Poe so. And perhaps Holdo even has a point, as Poe subsequently stages a mutiny and blabs out the plan to a stranger who turns out to be a traitor. So, um, should Leia not demote him AGAIN instead of making him a leader? I suspect there is not enough movie left to rehabilitate him. So Poe gets to be leader because everyone else is dead, or something like that.

The storyline is a mess, and fairly inconsistent. "Solo" is actually so much better.
 
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Could it be immense competition with better movies, lack of interest in the concept, and the toxicity of the fanbase killed this movie? No no, Rian Johnson did this! You SJW hack fraud!
What competition? Avengers only made $16 million this weekend and Deadpool 2 dropped 54% to $42 million. Both of them combined didn't make as much as Solo. Book Club came in at #3 with $9 million, and I don't think Solo was ever at risk of losing out on all of those sweet, sweet Book Club dollars. There was plenty of moviegoers' money to go around if they wanted to spend it.

Lack of interest and toxicity of the fanbase, you say? I wonder what could have caused that?

Hint: Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi
 
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2: Pointless redesign of the Millennium Falcon, It should look "newer" but not that drastically different. The less detailed exterior set looks like a something cobbled together for a 80's TV Movie. We're expected to believe it changes that much in the 10 years before Star Wars then stays the same for 35 years.
I initially wondered about the redesign, but came to like it, and the movie makes great steps towards the ANH Falcon already. The exterior is smoother, yes, and the interior is newish - but that is a reflection of Lando's character, and quite in line with the other movies.

  Spoiler:  
The movie shows the front legs being sheared off - a condition that is still there in ANH, until Han replaces them for ESB. Maybe not necessary - I would have been fine with pretending that the Falcon always looked like we saw it in ESB -, but I find it neat to know that the different look of the Falcon in ANH has a reason. Fan service, I know.

Then, Han breaks off the antenna dish, reflecting Lando doing the same thing in ROTJ - each time flying the ship that belongs to the other at this time. Also not necessary but this hidden humor pleases me much more than BB-8 being fed with coins in TLJ.

And the pod at the tip also gets lost during the Kessel run. The pod, of course, being a nod to the long suspected ability of the Falcon to dock something there - which is even shown in old Kenner toy prototypes.

The argument with the Falcon being the same in TFA is valid though - down to the same scorch marks, I think. One would think that Han had enough time to repair the thing and make some modifications. Or any of the later owners - as it seems that the Falcon was not in Han's hands for almost a decade. (In the old EU, the Falcon was painted black at some point.)
 
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Could it be immense competition with better movies, lack of interest in the concept, and the toxicity of the fanbase killed this movie? No no, Rian Johnson did this! You SJW hack fraud!
Toxicity of the fan base: thank Rian Johnson the hack fraud.

I don't agree with the SJW thing. He may or may not be and honestly how do you quantify something like that - but he's definitely a yes man who wrote Kathleen Kennedy a love letter and titled it The Last Jedi.
 
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Toxicity of the fan base: thank Rian Johnson the hack fraud.

I don't agree with the SJW thing. He may or may not be and honestly how do you quantify something like that - but he's definitely a yes man who wrote Kathleen Kennedy a love letter and titled it The Last Jedi.
The whole "SJW accusation" nonsense is not the real reason the majority of moviegoers didn't like TLJ. There are a vocal minority of complainers out there who have a problem with diversity in modern films, but the great successes of other progressive films with diverse casts show that they can't influence a movie's success or failure. In TLJ's case (which, by the way, was written and directed by a white man), Disney and their media affiliates amplified the voices of that vocal minority of complainers by creating news stories about something one clown on facebook said or one anonymous twitter weirdo posted in order to force the film to be judged on a moral scale rather than a "quality of storytelling" scale. It tricked some people into being outraged on twitter and thinking they were buying into a cause instead of buying a ticket to a movie, but that kind of trick can't be played forever.

The Last Jedi's biggest problem was that it was a bad movie and it didn't effectively do anything it set out to do (its jokes were not funny, its new characters were not interesting. its direction for previously established characters didn't connect with the fanbase) except carry out Rian Johnson's one trick: subverting expectations. But when billions are at stake and you're dealing with a franchise that has decades of history, you're probably better off meeting and exceeding fan expectations, not subverting them.

Long story short, Rian Johnson subverted fan expectations with TLJ, and now fans are subverting Disney's box office expectations with Solo.
 
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Could it be immense competition with better movies, lack of interest in the concept, and the toxicity of the fanbase killed this movie? No no, Rian Johnson did this! You SJW hack fraud!
I don't buy "immense" competition or lack of interest. There were no films of note debuting against Solo. It was competing against movies in their 2nd and 5th weeks respectively (Deadpool 2 and Avengers 3.) If a Star Wars movie is struggling against old movies (and 2nd week drop-off is huge these days), it says more about Star Wars than it does about those movies.

I don't buy a lack of interest either. I never read anything, anywhere, from a Star Wars fan who said they were tired of Star Wars. Box-office fatigue is an excuse, in my opinion. Marvel isn't suffering from Box-office fatigue.

As for "toxicity of the fanbase", I'm not even sure what that means, but it sounds like a restaurant blaming the customer for not enjoying their meal. Did I understand that right? If not, please correct me.

Solo is underperforming for no other reason than Disney has turned many fans off with they way they've handled the franchise so far. It's plain, obvious, and simple. Yes, some people like what Disney has done. Some people like to eat their own boogers too. But there are many people who do not (do not like the news films, nor eating their own boogers).
 
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The Landing gear issues intriguing, I assumed they were going to ignore the original oddball three legged Falcon. It raises the question why He waited over ten years to replace them? The full-sized ship was re-designed in Empire for practical reasons, a full cockpit combined with an empty cargo bay and the ship would probably tip over.:grin:

It always puzzled me how the side "Docking Rings" functioned mechanically, even more so covered in cladding. Are they used in the film? & does the interior get scorched?
 
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Solo is underperforming for no other reason than Disney has turned many fans off with they way they've handled the franchise so far. It's plain, obvious, and simple. Yes, some people like what Disney has done. Some people like to eat their own boogers too. But there are many people who do not (do not like the news films, nor eating their own boogers).
Again, this is only in the mindset of Star Wars 'fans' and even then only a relative minority will choose not to go and see it. Normal people don't care about Disney, or Kathleen Kennedy (they don't even know who she is, nor Rian Johnson for that matter and are just as oblivious to any 'SJW' nonsense) and simply look at casual reviews or rely on word-of-mouth buzz to dictate what they should see. Also, normal people don't go and see every film. They might go 2 or 3 times in 6 month period. IW and Deadpool 2 are on 'to watch' list before Solo.

I think this Forbes article is a decent analysis:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2018/05/27/box-office-solo-a-star-wars-story-bombs-with-148m-global-weekend/#2f5e26e1221f

For the first time ever, a new, live-action, theatrical Star Wars movie wasn’t an event for moviegoers. In a world filled with Star Wars-sized fantasy spectacles, it was just another big movie, one that felt (fair or not) like one of those “wannabe superhero origin story” movies like King Arthur and Pan that have performed so poorly over the last several years.

PS: The 'toxicity of fandom' is in comparing those who like the Disney films with drooling morons who eat their own boogers. FYI.
 
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"Normal" people don't go to see spinoffs featuring characters from a series they don't care about though. True "Fans", while a minority among general audiences, are the ones who see a film more than once (if they like it) and they're the ones who buy the merchandise etc.

Alienating & insulting the loyal existing fanbase to chase a fickle new audience is bad management on a "Ratners" level.
 
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You guys are acting like I'm running in circles with my hands over my ears screaming “lalalalalala TLJ had no impact on this movie.” It did, that's very hard to ignore. What I'm trying to say is there are multiple factors here. Nobody I know who liked TLJ saw the movie this weekend except for the 2 guys I saw the movie with. I know it's Deadpool's second week and Infinity War's 4th week, but most people I know don't catch that many blockbusters in a month and those two movies are objectively better than Solo. One of said friends who liked TLJ went to see Infinity War for the first time over Solo simply because he thought it looked better, or the reviews looked bad. Having seen Solo, and if I had the choice to go tell myself in the past to see Infinity War or Solo, I would see Infinity War again simply because I find it to be the better movie. If my firends had to choose between seeing TLJ or Infinity War again, I'm sure we would see Infinity War again because we preferred that movie (I know I can't use that as a good claim against most people here, but this is coming from someone who liked TLJ). And please don't say this fanbase is toxic as hell because Rian Johnson made a bad movie. If bad movies keep people from seeing the next in a matter of months, how the hell were Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman successful after Batman v Superman? The claim about Rian's influence on Star Wars community as a whole is verifiably accurate, but it's in s#@t taste given the reputation of this fandom since the prequels when the exact same thing happened. That's like saying Jake Llyod deserved to get thrown into an asylum because TPM was a bad movie. Maybe George deserved to lose all hope in his creativity and sell Lucasfilm to the dreaded “Mouse” because Star Wars fans told him he made bad movies? Bad movies don't justify people getting personal with the people involved and it only makes things worse for everyone else regardless of if they liked it or hated it. The hate for the prequels deprived George of any passion, and he sold his company to Disney. People claimed TFA was a soulless ripoff and took no risks. Boom, TLJ comes out and now everyone's mad about the risks it took, and the direction it took. “But TLJ is still a bad movie on it's own storytelling and character writing flaws!” Let's be honest, does TLJ have flaws visible by all people? Yes. The Canto Bight subplot is a waste of 29 minutes and it gets in the way the interesting stuff. There are holes in the Holdo subplot. But, is that what most people complain about? No. We keep citing this “vocal minority,” but most people I've seen either online or in real life hate this movie because it ruined Luke Skywalker, had problems based on their own personal vision of the Star Wars universe and characters, made men look weak, or forced a diversity agenda on them that has been present in the last two movies based on that logic. And if you dislike TLJ because of it's storytelling flaws, then you can voice your reservations online as you please as many of our members in threads like this do. But to say people telling Kelly Marie Tran to kill herself when she posts a picture of her lunch, shaming people who liked the movie, or calling Mark Hamill a shill or sellout because he said he didn't like Luke's story but still hangs out with Rian Johnson happen because Rian Johnson’s movie wasn't liked by the fans is disgusting and ignorant.
 
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yeah for Deadpools second week it pulled in $40 million that is extremely good. To say it's not a factor is being ignorant.

Now we will need to wait a while to see what the factors really are.

To test if it's backlash against TLJ we will have to wait till Ep9 comes out. If Ep9 does as well as TLJ then it's not backlash. If it does as bad as Han then clearly backlash played a part.

To see if its fatigue we will have to see what the final total is. If it has legs and makes close to 1 billion then I wouldn't say it's fatigue.

My bet is that it is a combination of many factors and we will have to see
 
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No bearing on what’s been said already, but I went again to see Solo with my wife and some friends this am at 9:30...it was packed, and people clapped loudly at the end...quite a lot of people. The 10 am was also packed. With Cinemark reserve seating...you can actually see how many seats are sold each show, each day. My opinion is this chain in particular allotted way too many theaters for Solo, when DP2 was still going strong. It doesn’t change the weekend gross, but it seems alot of people were waiting to go today.
 
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No bearing on what’s been said already, but I went again to see Solo with my wife and some friends this am at 9:30...it was packed, and people clapped loudly at the end...quite a lot of people. The 10 am was also packed. With Cinemark reserve seating...you can actually see how many seats are sold each show, each day. My opinion is this chain in particular allotted way too many theaters for Solo, when DP2 was still going strong. It doesn’t change the weekend gross, but it see,s a lot of people were waiting to go today.
that is very interesting and I think the word of mouth is spreading. it will be interesting to see Monday's total.
 
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I agree with what you said...I think there are many factors at play. Time WILL tell.
 
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My thoughts on Solo and Star wars today.

Americans never tire of anything. Look around, y’all, we hate to tire of stuff. From our cold dead hands will we let something go. We love sameness, the comfort of predictability, the sense that the earth has stopped turning, which means time isn’t passing, which means we are not going to die. Good grief, we are so scared of dying, so terrified of change, that sometime in June of 1995 we froze our clothes, hair, and decorating styles in amber.

Fatigue? From Americans? Sorry, no. The only way to get us to move along is if it sucks … which brings me back to Star Wars. How badly is Solo under-performing? Oh, it’s bad.

Keeping in mind that the trades reporting on Solo’s box office tend to suck up to the studios by making things sound better than they really are — and things still look bad. Over this four-day Memorial Day weekend, Solo is belly-flopping at right around $114 million. Solo’s three-day take (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) is $93 million.

Comparing apples-to-apples, here are the three-day openings…

Solo: $92 million

The Last Jedi: $220 million

Rogue One: $155 million

When you figure in for inflation, even the dreaded prequels (that opened on a lot fewer screens) will out-perform Solo.

The Phantom Menace opened to $114 million (2970 screens) in 1999, Attack of the Clones opened to $126 million (3161 screens) in 2002, and Revenge of the Sith opened to $153 million (3663 screens) in 2005.

Solo opened on a whopping 4400 screens.

For an even clearer perspective, on its opening Friday, Rogue One earned $71 million. Solo made about half that, $36.5 million.

Internationally, that magical place where most domestic box office bombs go to thrive, Solo is even doing worse. In 43 markets, over two whole days, Solo made a paltry $11.4 million.

So what is happening? Why such a collapse? Two words: Kathleen and Kennedy.

Kathleen Kennedy is the 65-year-old producer in charge of the Star Wars franchise. She is also a committed social justice warrior and feminist who is using the Star Wars franchise to push her agenda.Kennedy undoubtedly believed that with such a beloved and iconic property, she was bulletproof; that she could be as strident and obnoxious as she pleased, and we stupid Americans would still slavishly get the line because spaceships and laser-guns are cool ‘n stuff.

She was wrong, and The Last Jedi was the beginning of the end. It under-preformed big-time at the box office and its overbearing political moments were not only eye-rollingly awful, they damaged the overall story while tainting the entire franchise. Kennedy has placed her agenda over the storytelling, and the result was especially awful in Last Jedi, like that two-hour chase that went nowhere. Worse still, was Kennedy’s decision to dumb down Oscar Issac’s Poe Dameron into a sexist caveman when he is, by far, the most charismatic new character in the new trilogy.

Solo also has its SJW moments. Who doesn’t love watching a five-foot girl who weighs in at about 85 pounds kicking the *** of a grown man? Then there is the feminist droid always harping about equal rights (thankfully, she is killed off quickly). Finally, we are hit with the news that the iconic Lando Calrissian is a “pansexual,” and there are a couple moments in Solo where you are given the impression that includes *** with feminist droids.

Kathleen Kennedy is killing the Star Wars franchise because she is so drastically changing it ( remember what I said above about Americans not liking change?). What used to be escapist and mythical, what was once wondrous and ennobling of the human spirit, is now pedantic, preachy, and small-minded.

Kennedy is not appealing to our sense of adventure and shared aspirations, she is hectoring and scolding us. She is not appealing to our shared humanity, she is dividing us up into tribal camps based on race gender, color, and where we like to put our *** organs.

Kathleen Kennedy is such a bad storyteller, so heavy-handed, so selfish, so narcissistic, so wrong, so divisive, so out of touch, that a Star Wars movie — a Star Wars movie, y’all –– will probably lose money.

Decades of goodwill have been squandered, the golden goose has been made constipated.Go Woke, Go Broke as the saying goes


er...are you John?



https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2018/05/26/go-woke-go-broke-solo-crash-lands-at-box-office/amp/
 
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No bearing on what’s been said already, but I went again to see Solo with my wife and some friends this am at 9:30...it was packed, and people clapped loudly at the end...quite a lot of people. The 10 am was also packed. With Cinemark reserve seating...you can actually see how many seats are sold each show, each day. My opinion is this chain in particular allotted way too many theaters for Solo, when DP2 was still going strong. It doesn’t change the weekend gross, but it seems alot of people were waiting to go today.
Complete opposite for me. I know there were a lot of graduation ceremonies in my city that day, and it was a mid Saturday afternoon, but it was a complete ghost town. No applause, no one talked coming out of the theater. Nobody seemed upset or disappointed, just... oddly quiet. Oh well, glad to see it's going better for some.
 
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Just read on screen rant, that per Box Office Mojo...in spite of falling below expectations, Solo has the best Memorial Day weekend gross since 2014’s X-Men Days of Future Past. It is still the lowest grossing SW performer in the Disney era.
 
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Complete opposite for me. I know there were a lot of graduation ceremonies in my city that day, and it was a mid Saturday afternoon, but it was a complete ghost town. No applause, no one talked coming out of the theater. Nobody seemed upset or disappointed, just... oddly quiet. Oh well, glad to see it's going better for some.
I’ve been to shows with no reaction like that, and some like A Quiet Place and IT Chapter 1 where they were coming off their seats...and the theater buzz was palpable. There was a 9 year old three seats down that loved Solo, and let out an audible OMG when the cameo happened. That was always George Lucas’s target audience.
 
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