Why do so many collectors dislike POTF2?

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Inspired somewhat by Murphwalker's recent thread in which he announced his new POTF2 collecting focus, I was thinking today about POTF2's position in most collectors' esteem. Evidently, it's pretty low. Most opinions on the collection range from, at best, indifferent to, at worst, pure vitriol.

I'm wondering why. Let's be honest, the vintage line has pretty inaccurate sculpts with limited articulation, and yet its fawned over and seen as a product of its time etc etc. Why not POTF2? The exaggerated muscles on the early releases was very much in keeping with the "X-Treme" look of most toys during the mid-90s. Aren't they allowed to be "of their time" as well?

I believe part of the problem is that Star Wars hasn't had a break since 1995. I believe that if the toyline had ceased production for a few years, and then restarted, POTF2 would be looked on more lovingly. As it is - unlike the vintage to POTF2 transition - we had an ever-evolving toyline which was omni-present. Collectors saw the improvements on a constant basis and so, like a pack of ravenous dogs, hungrily waited for the NEXT improvement. Already I hear some collectors demanding resculpts of figures from just last year! As such, what has come before is almost instantly dismissed if not completely perfect because people are expectant of a further release.

I also think its harmed POTF2 popularity when Hasbro release POTF2 sculpts alongside newer offerings. Of course a 1998 Barada will not look as good as a 2006 General Veers (for example)! There's 8 years of toy-design-and-making improvements in between them. But Barada gets labelled as "crappy old POTF2 sculpt" and the hate goes on.

Imagine this: POTF2 runs from 1995-1999. We then have six years when figures are released to coincide with the prequels, but NO ORIGINAL TRILOGY figures. Come 2006, a new OT Collection begins, separate and distinct from vintage (1978-1985) and POTF2 (1995-1999). Three unique Star Wars collecting periods, each one acknowledged and appreciated for what it is. Do you think this would have made a difference?

Interested in hearing other opinions on this...
(NOTE - I know I may have overplayed the dislike accorded to POTF2. I do know most collectors are OK with it, but the extreme reactions of hate have been displayed plenty of times on the RS forums, so its not completely inaccurate).
 
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Evolution. Look at the sculpts we have today compared to the POTF2 line and other toys that were out at that time. People want more detail now and the steroid look just doesn't cut it anymore.
 
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I personnally think it's alot of the vintage collectors that are stuck in their ways. I too thought the POTF2 line was crap when it first hit the shelves in 1995. I would'nt touch it, with the exception of a few vehicles that had the same scupts as the vintage lines.

I have just grown to tired of the same old vintage look!
 
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Well I think in some ways people get upset when a POTF2 sculpt is used in a "premium" or "exclusive" release. I mean if I'm paying a premium price for something, i really don't want a dressed up figure from a decade ago.

But I think its definately a product of its time. I used to be big into Marvel comics Toy Biz toys at the time so these fit in well, granted wrong scale, but hey I had spider-man toting Stormtrooper rifles hehe - good thing the weapons in the early days were so big, they worked great with the 5" figures.

Honestly they are the new Vintage for me. Slightly inaccurate but still pretty cool. Far closer in sculpting to the real movies than Vintage ever was. But then I think it matters on WHEN and how old you were when you collected first.

If POTF2 was your first collection, then sure it'll hold a special place in your heart as it does mine. If Vintage was then Vintage is your first love and POTF2 is sorta a... step child to that.

The farther away POTF2 gets the more it might be regarded better, simply for its late 90's ness.
 
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I actually love the POTF2 line mainly I guess because it was my first Star Wars line. I was 11 when the line came out. I remember how excited I was when I found them at Wal-Mart I got Luke and Han, and my brother got Vader and Chewie. Some of the earlier figures look out of place because they are too buff but I still display them. The Luke Bespin and X wing pilot are still some of my favorite figures.

I think a lot of people who didn't like POTF2 were vintage collectors even though those figures were as inaccurate if not more than POTF2. Most complaints are the figures are too He Man like which on the Lando figures and rebel trooper I agree. The other would be the scale of figures like the leias being to tall.
 
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I agree with the whole evolution thing. It's just like a lot of video gamers, they don't like to go back and play older games like NES, Sega Genesis, and SNES. They are spoiled by their lush graphics on new systems. They are missing out. Just like collectors are by dissing POTF2. Sure it doesn't look as good anymore, but there are still a lot of solid figures, and they don't ALL suck.

POTF2 brought the toy franchise to life again, I remember in my area, the 1st Vader, C-3P0, and Monkey Leia were being scalped HARD!!! The demand and popularity revived Star Wars figures and brought us to the super figures of today.

Another thing that can be seen as good or bad was Hasbro's ability to think outside the box and make totally weird stuff like the Cruisemissile Trooper. I actually like that thing. Sure it's not a good "figure", but it is a great "vehicle" and it hearkens to the days of 80s toys, when action was king!!!

Anyway, rant over.
POTF2 are still good, in their own special way.
Just like hamburgers.
 

AMG

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I grew up with vintage Star Wars toys and will always love those figures.

That said I'm also a huge fan of the POTF2 line. When they first hit the shelves over a decade ago, I went crazy! The figures were a huge step up in detail and character likeliness from my beloved vintage toys. He-Man muscles aside, Luke, Han and the rest of the crew from the first line up looked more like their movie counterparts (in the face) than anything that came before it. As the line went on, it continued to improve and produce some of my all time favorite figures for some characters. I loved the line back when it first hit the shelves, and I love the line now.
 
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I think the POTF2 figures are better made than the new ones. I've had several new figures fall apart due to all the extra joints being there. All the POTF2 figure can be played with and you won't end up with a pile of body parts.

I don't mind the buff figures. Now they seem to make some figures too skinny. Newer Lukes: eat something before you starve to death. I know if I was a kid, I'd want stronger figures since they have to be a hero. Not some wuss beanpole. I want my heroes to be able to pick up the villian and thrown them.
 
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dArK said:
hey the POTF2 line rocked enough said
Dude stop [censored] saying that! Nuff said this, and enough said that. My god, most of your posts consist of "nuff said" Jesus christ.
 
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Being involved with vintage for many years I can understand where everyone is coming from. That is what I grew up with so that's what I collect. The POTF2 line is equally important to me because I remember the buzz of when the Star Wars hype was re-entering the world back in '95. I remember when the Timothy Zahn books came out in '92 or '93 and thought "man, I wished they would come out with action figures again!"

Like I've said in previous posts, other than historical reasons I like the POTF2 line because it doesn't have all the articulation and is somewhat close to vintage. Most of the first ships are cast from vintage. It was much better detail than the vintage. Plus it's a very inexpensive line to start collecting.

I have all the orange card and most of the green carded figures, several bootlegs and am starting on European carded sometime. I also have a lot of the FF but I'm selling those
.
 
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As far as a I am concerned, the POTF2 line is by far the best of all the lines. as a matter of fact i have stopped collecting any of the new figures. i just cant stand them. all that i collect now are errors or different variants of the potf2 orange and green card lines. i cant get enough of them!!!!!

as a matter of a fact, there is a thread two threads down that reads, "Would You Agree That POTF Is The Best Collection?". and based on the responses there, there certainly are others that love this line as well!!

thats whats great about collecting. everyone has their own favorite lines....
 
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As a loose collector, I have been slowly replacing POTF2 figures with newer ones as they come out. I just appreciate the better sculpts and articulation. They're more fun to play with. The POTF2 line was when I really got into collecting, so it still has some fond memories. And there's parts of it I will never get rid of.
 
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The way I personally view it is POTF-2 was the best of all the modern toys for playability. They were a LOT more durable than the stuff released now. I've given my 3 year daughter pretty much all of the loose POTF-2 figures I had (minus the weapons of course) and those things can take a licking!
All the newer toys with all the articulation and so forth are only good for looking at in the package or displaying. You mess with them too much and they fall apart too easy or the joints loosen up too much. Let's not even get into the bending of the plastic! I love the newest sculpts but let's be honest...as basic toys for children the figures these days suck! POTF-2 definately brought the toy biz industry back online. It will definately hold its rightful place in history.
 
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Let's not forget too that POTF-2 had an evolution of accurate sculpts well before moving on to POTJ. Plenty of figures from the cinema scenes were excellent sculpts and get rehashed to this day due to their strong design. (A couple POTF-2 cantina aliens just got re-hashed with new paint jobs) Let's also not forget the Commtech figures which were a great series to cap off the POTF-2 line. The Commtech Han and Lukes are my personal favorites and haven't been replaced in my dioramas with any newer sculpt (Nobody can say that the upcoming Luke w/moisture vaporator figure actually looks like Mark Hamill at all).
 
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I can give you a couple a reason why collectors don't like the POTF2 line.

1.30 years ago the orginal toyline was sold for $1.99 at retails stores (to me that's cheap)
2.when the POTF2 line first came out they were sold $4.00
more than they were back then
3.now we have action figure fans that want more
articulation,sculpt correctness and likeness of the figure
Hasbro did not meet the average vintage collectors wants/needs
4.collectors don't think the POTF2 line will be worth anything.





NOTE:my fact are probably incorrect
 
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Some of those points don't make any sense. Why would Vintage collectors expect a new toyline to be the same buck ninty ninty nine it was back in the 70s and early 80s???

i mean hell comic books were 35 cents at the time too, but when POTF2 came out most were $1.50-2.00 did that mean that "older collectors" disliked current comics because they weren't the same price as they were 20 some odd years earlier?

I'm thinking possibly the primary reason POTF2 is disliked by current collectors was because I am POSITIVE many thought that these new POTF2 figures would be INSTANTLY valuable exactly like the Vintage toys and for a short time they were. Lieas and Boba Fetts were going for OVER $100-200 at my local comic shops and people were BUYING them at that price too.

Now you can't unload a Monkey Face Leia or Beer Belly Fett for $1.99 unless its like Mint condition and signed by Carrie Fisher or Jeremy Bullock or something, then maybe you could clear $50 ish.

I think its just a simple case of people buying and hoarding mass quantities of these to the point where the market is no longer there. Unlike the Vintage line which very very few people kept MOC, I am sure that probably at LEAST 50-60% of the POTF run is still out there in MOC/MIB condition and worth very very little, simply because it IS MOC/MIB. If POTF2 was treated like the Vintage line, where probably 70-80% of the entire line is no longer MOC/MIB due to both age and people actually.. playing with them. That's why Vintage was and is so valuable in terms of cash, because there's far less "Mint" product out there and that's getting less and less all the time simply due to the plastic, cardboard and glues getting old.

I think, given time, POTF2 could reach Vintage like numbers. I think in a way, the current market for POTF2 is helping that along. With so many collectors ditching POTF2 stuff hard and replacing with newer product, and other people OPENING and customizing and generally PLAYING with POTF2 again... its decreasing the base of MOC/MIB product in existance.

POTF2's time will come... just give it time.
 
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The values have nothing to do with the fact of people liking them or not. It all boils down to one thing - supply and demand. Everyone jumped on POTF2 thinking they would be worth a ton like the original line. I personally loved them when they first came out since I opened all toys from the early 80's. Overtime they may become more valuable if people continue to open, customize, etc. But until their aren't enough MOMC for all us collectors they will continue to be $2-3.
 
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NickRyder said:
I'm thinking possibly the primary reason POTF2 is disliked by current collectors was because I am POSITIVE many thought that these new POTF2 figures would be INSTANTLY valuable exactly like the Vintage toys and for a short time they were. Lieas and Boba Fetts were going for OVER $100-200 at my local comic shops and people were BUYING them at that price too.
I agree with this, good point. People sure did go crazy, convinced anything with Star Wars on it would make them a millionaire... (some still do!)
 
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Yeah look at eBay with people still asking crazy amounts of money for new toys.

I think what sort of hurt POTF2 and Episode 1 toys is simply the glut, towards the ends of those lines everyone had TONS of POTF2 and Episode 1 stuff - that's when we started seeing the first HARD peg warmers. I remember getting almost ready to pee my pants when I walked into a Wal-Mart and there was almost 20 "monkey faced Leia's" on the pegs - I even begged my mom for a little extra money so I could grab 3 of them! I still have two of 'em on the cards, but after the "value" dropped from like 200 bucks to under 20 I broke down and opened one. But I tell ya, it was a crazy time.

I think it's a pretty good line to get into if you're looking for a nearly Vintage like experience with a LOT of toys. I mean really, no modern line since POTF2/Episode 1 (I consder those sorta the same line) that had as many figures - a lot of which have yet to be updated - vehicles, playsets and variants.

Plus the prices to acquire them are dirt cheap now. I mean honestly you could probably get a near complete collection for under $200 bucks including a few vehicles and playsets

Compare that to about 200 bucks for a couple of Vintage....
 
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I think the dislike comes from how disproportionate they were. The modern line is more proportionate and so was the vintage line, but the 90's look was like a red headed step child. Ironically, I think that is the case with most things 90's. It will go down in history as spinning the worst trends the world has seen. Anyway, back on topic, I remeber thinking the POTF2 figures were superior to the Vintage figures when they first came out, but when you hold them up to each other and compare, the vintage figures are more accurate still. Aside from being better proprtioned, they had as much detail put into them as their 90's counterparts, even their weapons looked better. The details on the POTF2 figures were way too stylized and that constant use of chest heaving for every main figure started to get old after the first couple waves and when you look at these figures from the side they just look ridiculous. Another problem with POTF2 is that secondary characters like Momaw Nadon, Bossk and 21B were given better detail and sculpting, and it took years before the heroes started getting the same treatment. I remeber Hasbro's excuse at the time had to do with their belief that minor characters were given more attention so they would be stronger sellers, but the main characters didn't need this because they appealed to a broader market. I am glad that myth is gone as kids today know better and adult collectors would never put up with that crap ever again.

However, the POTF2 figures did offer superior paint jobs, better looking light sabers, improved headsculpts and that fresh new Star Wars experience that brought me back to my childhood all over again. So I will always give them credit for that. I actually still have all my POTF2 figures. I have them flying my ships, populating playsets and what not.

Today's figures however, are more impressive then anything that has ever come out before so I am glad things changed for the better. I think collecting today is more fun than ever before because I am catching up on the old while collecting the new.
 
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I still remember walking into Big W and finding those OC POTF2 figures for the first time - it was mind blowing to see SW back on the shelves again in action figure form.

Sure the some of the sculpts are a little wacked and overdone, but they do have an important place in SW toy history.
I have every figure still on card (except US FF Weequay and Sandtrooper) but last year I decided to make some room and sell off about 95% of my loose POTF2 figure collection.
In the last week, I've realized that I actually miss my loose POTF2 collection and have begun a crusade to get them all back - long sabers, tan vest and all.
I know one thing - I certainly don't miss selling my Bend-Ems collection - those things really are crap.
 
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I have to admit that the first couple waves of he-man Lukes and C-3P0s (Not to mention Attack R5-D4) were not enough to revive my interest in collecting. I enjoyed looking at the re-released vintage vehicles in the stores with really nice paint and details but as person with a decent vintage collection already, I didn't see how these new buffed figures would look along side what I already had.

The EP I Line is what got me interested in collecting again. They were something that wern't new molds of existing figures and could be seperate. The "Collect them all" mentality started creeping back into my head (Thanks Kenner) and I decided to give POTF2 a second look (Mainly since they were on clearance in large numbers at Kay Bee and TRU and the buffed figures were mostly slimmed down by then).

I think the POTF2 Line was the most kid oriented of the modern releases (Even more so then the horrible action feature ridden AOTC line) and it's fun to look back on the huge lots of figures, all the vehicles and playsets that were always in stock (At least at the stores I frequented).
 
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The muscles just suck. And the articulation's pretty bad considering some of the Star Trek figures available a couple years earlier and at the same time.
 
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I don't think it's a matter of dislike as it's more of wow why couldn't they just make the figures like today back in '95.

I thought the original POTF line in '95 was great and looked forward to seeing new figures everyday. I mean I have been collecting since '78 and when the original Kenner line dryed up in '85 a part of me was lost. when I first saw that Hasbro was going to remake the figures in '95 the lost kid in me was born again and since a part of my childhood returned.

do I think that Hasbro needs to revisit some of the POTF line and bring it into the modern figures of today, absolutely, I mean we can all use another Yak Face or Gamorrean Guard.

although I have to admit that the He-Man Luke and Han Figures were amusing.
 
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I'd love to see a new Yak Face or Gamorrean Guard.
In a recent Q & A hasbro were asked about a new Yak Face and the answer was something like "There are more important charcaters to do before Yak"

Yak Face isn't important?
Yeah - right!
 
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Yeah, i mean i realy do like my vintage Yak over my Potf2 version. I could imagine a VOTC sculpt because this represents one of the holy grails of SW. So every single person can afford a carded Yak Face.
 
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Yeah, what about a new Ackbar? I mean the dude headed up the battle of Endor for Pete's Sake? I started my collection with POTF2 and will always like them, even now as the figures look better and better the old red cards looks so out of place on my wall now its almost funny! Pote Snitkin, Captain Piet, Ackbar, Niem Numb, Lak Sivrak and others still havent been remade yet and maybe never will be. That makes them pretty important in my eyes.
 

GNT

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The muscles just suck. And the articulation's pretty bad considering some of the Star Trek figures available a couple years earlier and at the same time.
The buffness never bothered me at the time but they quickly started making somewhat accurate looking figures a few years into the line. The tail end of the line had some nice figures but when everyone thinks of the POTF2 line they think of the first year or two's buff figures.
 
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Some great character choices (Pote Snitkin, Ishi Tib, Lak Sivrak) and great sculpts. Some figures I still prefer today over newer versions (Zuckuss, Oola). It's also a lot of fun getting all the cardback variations. And a whole line consisting of just OT figures? Yes, please!

Though, some figures are really awkward...:$
 
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I loved POTF2. Great choices, characters, although availability was frustrating at the time. Still better than what's going on today.

Then again that line is what led me down the rabbit hole of toy collecting....had I known then what I know now I might have walked away.
 
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POTF2 is probably one of my favourite lines, can't understand why anyone would hate it so much. Some of the sculpts are pretty cool, I wasn't overly fond of the Episode I line when they came out but I have come to love and add them to the collection.
 
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It took a few waves to find the right approach to the characters (which we could overlook due to the excitement of having new SW toys), but POTF2 was excellent. A great selection of characters, fantastic paint apps, vehicles, playsets and the freeze frames (my all-time favourite pack-ins), as well as finally giving us Vader with removable helmet. This line was fun, and in my opinion it's when Hasbro had the best balance between toy and collectible.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Vintage Collection; but I hold POTF2 in very high regard.
 
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I too was very happy when POTF2 came out. Yes, I was a little shocked to see buff Luke, Han and monkey face Leia, but I accepted that this was the style of the time. I still think most of these head sculpts look better than a lot of todays. At least they used the same Luke head on figures for a while, unlike now where every one is different and all look bad. They gave us playsets (Hear THAT, Hasbro?) and re issues of the classic vehicles, too!

Hell, I went out and bought myself about 15 of those stormtroopers, and a good handful of the Rebel Trooper. There were some great choices in that line. and it really was the first time KENNER offered a Tarkin on a single card!

I was much happier when they started to scale the muscle stuff back and make more accurate looking figures. Although from early 1998 to when the POTj stuff came out I had a very hard time finding the figures.
 
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speaking of the Power of the Force 2 Stormtroopers which do you still like for its sculpt appearance? the older first release or the 1999 Stormtrooper that was a little more poseable and had the rifle rack
 
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speaking of the Power of the Force 2 Stormtroopers which do you still like for its sculpt appearance? the older first release or the 1999 Stormtrooper that was a little more poseable and had the rifle rack
The 1999 trooper was an amazing upgrade over the original POTF2 one in proportions, articulation, and detail.
 
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