TROS What would you change? Bullet points only.

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Just in a few.. to several points;
What key plot points, scenes, characters or factions would you liked to have seen (or not) in The Rise of Skywalker?
 
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Let me start here :)

• Snoke should have been the one resurrected initially. Everyone would know he was a clone. Of course this leads to Kylo having to kill him again.. but this can be with military force.. orbital bombardment or the like. Destroying his cloning facility. Let the Emperor return as complete shock and awe after this fact.

• I don’t have a problem with Leia teaching Rey. This all sits pretty well with me. I’m still at a loss to the significance of the mosaic of the Prime Jedi on Ach To.. and Luke’s 3rd lesson should have been addressed. Finn should have been outed properly as force sensitive and used it. But I guess the seed was sewn.

.• The Wayfinder concept was good. It’s execution was flawed. Navigating through a celestial maze would not look like Obi Wan being chased through an asteroid field. Could have taken the high road there. Why bother with the DSII wreckage? It never made any sense. A Sith temple ruin from the old republic would make much more sense. Let Kylo find an old imperial ship to fly out of there. An inquisitor TIE or something Ventress might have flown.

• The “Final Order” could simply have been The Sith Fleet, or just the cinematic version of Thrawn’s Empire of The Hand. In any case; Thrawn!

• Kylo finding an Imperial Tie in perfect working order? With a hyperdrive?... I would have been much happier with a live action version of the ISP mini-rig shuttle.. but that’s just me.

• A little more Ben Solo, no teleportation malarkey. Have him survive with the help of his grandfather, who takes Palpatine away to the Netherworld.. which could also be featured while Rey is considered dead, to have us see some old faces..

• Finally, no Rey Skywalker. Not in the context we saw. I needed more of a bloodline and reveal. I didn’t mind that she is a Palpatine, as it was hinted at in TFA through her lightsaber technique, but she could have been descended from Qui Gon and Shmi Skywalker... Yes! A REAL secret Skywalker! Qui Gon did seem somewhat “effectionate” towards her and stayed at least a couple nights... it was a celebratory mood the last night.. this may make Reylo 2nd cousins, but I digress. Fill in the blanks! Perhaps this individual can be someone separate that exists! Someone kidnapped and raised by the sand people, connected to A’Sharad Hett for example. Encountered by Obi Wan in his isolation. The mind boggles.

Edit: I also did say “bring Luke back to life”, but he functions just as well as a force ghost :)
 
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I've already written too much about the sequels today, so I will try to be brief in my bullets. My major overhaul:
  • Rey Nobody
  • No big bad beyond Kylo and the First Order machine (the generals and institutions are enough of an enemy; let Kylo's return get more focus)
  • Finn leads stromtrooper uprising
  • Poe's conflict is trying to build a galaxy-wide coalition in the wake of Leia's death
  • Ghost Luke (along with salvaged Leia footage) joining in Rey's training
  • Ghost Luke haunting Kylo
  • Post-redemption, Ben Solo needs to interact with (and be appropriately judged by) Finn and Poe
  • And good god, Ben Solo needs to get on the Falcon
  • The "they're just people" Dunkirk moment is inspired by the legend of Luke along with Leia's message to the galaxy, not just Lando smooth-talking folks off-screen into joining up
  • Keep Babu Frik, obviously.
With the existing script/story we got? Make it two movies, use the extra time for Trio Adventures and Kylo's hunt for Sith artifacts (show us how he's hearing voices in his head if Palpatine is going to call that out), as well as to explore the Sith cult. Have the "Final Order" rise later in the story. Take out all Rey Palpatine references and beef up the attempts to gather a fleet of people so the payoff lands better. Finally, let more scenes exist and breathe the way Abrams did for the first half of TFA -- that's where characters have a chance to flourish and grow.
 
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  • The movie could have opened with Finn waking up in that coma he was in at the end of TFA/beginning of TLJ and and saying something along the lines of "man I just has the worst fever dream ever"
Edit: made it a bullet point
 
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I always thought they could have Luke and Yoda by the fire, and Luke snaps out of the force vision, Yoda says, "these are the events that will transpire if you don't go back" negates the events of TLJ but not the film. It gives you what you want... MORE LUKE SKYWALKER.
 
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Exactly what i was hoping for TBH, it being a Force vision. But I'm sure JJ just didn't want to step on any toes or cause friction.
 
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Okay all of these are made moreso around making what we got better to my personal tastes, rather than reinventing the wheel and making a new story from scratch.
>Rey remains a "nobody." I don't see why the Skywalkers and the Palpatines have to be the only two powerful families in the force. I don't know why she can't be more powerful than both of them seeing that her arc is more about her internal struggle than external struggles.
>Ben Solo is still redeemed but lives, making his redemption all the more difficult and powerful because he does it knowing he will have to pay for his crimes. It isn't convenient for him, but he does it because it's the right thing to do. Creates a potential for future Skywalkers beyond Ben, but also gives the family a happy ending.
>Snoke isn't some weird test-tube baby. He was just like a colleague of Palpatine's on Exogol from back in the day, maybe the Sith geneticist leading the charge on creating Palpatine's new body who was doing him a solid while he found a new body. Unknowingly a pawn of Palpatine's. Sorta thought he was in charge the whole time, but really wasn't.
>If we're bringing Palpatine back include whatever info was provided in the novelization. It's still dumb as hell, but at least it's explained.
>Finn leads an actual Stormtrooper revolt, not just like a dozen former Stormtroopers on horses. Functions well visually because audience can decipher white stormtroopers=good, red stormtrooper=weird f'd up genocical Sith cultists.
>No Jannah and Zorri Bliss. Not necessary to introduce these characters. They provide no roles that can't be filled by previously established characters. Probably cut Pryde too and just make Hux more unhinged and lean into him being into his imperial heritage.
>D-0's voice isn't weird JJ Abrams voice. It's those reverby boops he was doing at his reveal at Star Wars Celebration. Him speaking English is such a downgrade.
>C-3PO's memory stays wiped. It's not like Chewbacca, R2, and Lando aren't still around to remind him of all the adventures he went on. He's a character that can continue indefinitely. There needs to be some sort of stakes and killing any of the human characters off never felt warranted.
>Building off on that, Rose gets to go on the mission.
>This one's fanservice-y, but after Luke repeatedly shows up to Ben like he said he would in Last Jedi. After becoming one with the force Luke seeks Han's spirit. Han's not a Jedi or anything, whatever, we can just say something that he believed in it fully and therefore with the help of a Jedi master as powerful as Luke he spirit can become one with it too. Through this Luke gets Han in touch with Ben and this is what finally turns him. Probably plays out similar to how it does in the actual movie except I guess he'd be a blue ghost.
>No planet destroying Star Destroyers lol. It's threat enough that evil undead Sith guy is coming back with an ungodly amount of Star Destroyers, they don't need to be planet killers too. One can assume he'll build another gd Death Star some time in the future should he win, but my god audiences are tired of seeing them.
>Movie doesn't end at the Lars' homestead. I don't know where we make the ending, but it sure as hell isn't going to be Rey all by herself when the idea of found families was a major theme in the previous two movies.
 
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  • Ben and Rey are only able to defeat Palpatine together
  • The main force ghosts of Obi Wan, Yoda, Anikan, and Luke, appear (if even just to Rey/Ben) during the climactic battle on Exegol
  • Much more force ghost Luke
  • The "they're just people" Dunkirk moment is inspired by the legend of Luke along with Leia's message to the galaxy, not just Lando smooth-talking folks off-screen into joining up (stolen from ClanVizsla)
  • Give more detail about how and why Palpatine is back
  • Connect more to the prequels in some way or another
  • The heroes/led by Rey should fight their way off of the First Order ship instead of the Hux as a trader sets them free
  • Expand opening scene on "Mustafar" to be more than a montage. Have characters talk and explain why they are there and what they are doing- aka don't make Palpatine is back part of the opening crawl or even the opening scene
  • more R2D2
  • Death Star III?
 
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No change can make it good. Just a time machine and a trip back to tell Lucas what happens when Abrams gets hired.

  • The movie could have opened with Finn waking up in that coma he was in at the end of TFA/beginning of TLJ and and saying something along the lines of "man I just has the worst fever dream ever"
Edit: made it a bullet point
You are forget that Force Awakens is the rubbish that caused all this mess in the first place.

The whole ST needs a Bobby in the Shower.
 
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No change can make it good. Just a time machine and a trip back to tell Lucas what happens when Abrams gets hired.



You are forget that Force Awakens is the rubbish that caused all this mess in the first place.

The whole ST needs a Bobby in the Shower.
Na. TFA was pretty good. It opened enough doors for future storytelling while still being familiar enough as a Star Wars movie.

Finn was interesting until TLJ. Poe had potential until TLJ. Kylo was interesting until TLJ. Rey...was Rey. Snoke was intriguing until TLJ. Han was supposed to be dead back in ESB so it wasn't a big shock.

The biggest travesty was how Luke was handled in TLJ.

Abrams gave Johnson the tools to make a competent sequel. Johnson made a movie for Kathy Kennedy.
 
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Na. TFA was pretty good. It opened enough doors for future storytelling while still being familiar enough as a Star Wars movie.

Finn was interesting until TLJ. Poe had potential until TLJ. Kylo was interesting until TLJ. Rey...was Rey. Snoke was intriguing until TLJ. Han was supposed to be dead back in ESB so it wasn't a big shock.

The biggest travesty was how Luke was handled in TLJ.

Abrams gave Johnson the tools to make a competent sequel. Johnson made a movie for Kathy Kennedy.
TFA was a waste. It closed doors not opened them and of course it was "amiliar enough as a Star Wars movie" - because it was just copying everything that was done before, even the EU.

Finn was never interesting because he was Abrams did nothing with the idea that that he was brainwashed as a child but someone broke himself free. He was just some guy. Poe never had potential because he was supposed to die - he only becomes a "main character" because Abrams though Isaasc wouldn't take the job. Abrams didn't even bother to do anything with him in TFA. He is just some guy. Kylo was just Darth Vader again, Snoke was just the Emperor again. Not sure what you mean about Han Solo.

The biggest travesty was that Abrams sidelined Luke and Hamill to work with Ford. While not what I wanted I wanted to see happen with the character Hamill gives a great performance in TLJ and t by far the best think in the trilogy.

Kennedy hired Abrams. He gave Kennedy and Disney exactly what they wanted. He made a movie for people who didn't want something new and different.
 
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TFA was a waste. It closed doors not opened them and of course it was "amiliar enough as a Star Wars movie" - because it was just copying everything that was done before, even the EU.

Finn was never interesting because he was Abrams did nothing with the idea that that he was brainwashed as a child but someone broke himself free. He was just some guy. Poe never had potential because he was supposed to die - he only becomes a "main character" because Abrams though Isaasc wouldn't take the job. Abrams didn't even bother to do anything with him in TFA. He is just some guy. Kylo was just Darth Vader again, Snoke was just the Emperor again. Not sure what you mean about Han Solo.

The biggest travesty was that Abrams sidelined Luke and Hamill to work with Ford. While not what I wanted I wanted to see happen with the character Hamill gives a great performance in TLJ and t by far the best think in the trilogy.

Kennedy hired Abrams. He gave Kennedy and Disney exactly what they wanted. He made a movie for people who didn't want something new and different.
To each his own
 
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To each his own
Those are not my opinions. They are a statement of the facts.

Regardless of the direction TLJ brought Luke, Hamill gives a great performance. He also had great chemistry with Ridley. The throne room fight was was great. And Luke facing off against the walkers and Kylo Ren was just superb. These puts TLJ head and shoulders above VII and IX but that is not saying much. And Johnson at least tried something different.

My issue with Johnson is that he had the opportunity to save the ST by jettisoning all the remake rubbish that Abrams and Kasdan brought in.

Opening scene of VIII we discover that the enough of New Republic fleet did survive to crush the First Order. Kylo Ren is captured. Turns out Snoke is the advance scout a massive alien invasion and that the Kinihts of Ren are their "Jedi". New bad guys. Finn wakes up and we actually discover why isn't behaving like a guy who just overcame years of brainwashing and it is used to bring freedom and justice to the other troopers (rear than killing them and cheering about it). On Ach-To Rey's discovers the reason Luke went into exile - he has Padawans that were too young to fight and he choose to stay with them. Also has few left in comas by Kylo Ren and he came to the first temple to learn to wake them. And Rey is a nobody. And Poe ... who gives a toss?

The real actual travesty that befell Star Wars is Abrams. I had associated the man with great imagination but getting hired to work on Star Wars must have burst a few neural pathways because Episode VII just complete lack of imagination.
 
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Those are not my opinions. They are a statement of the facts.

Regardless of the direction TLJ brought Luke, Hamill gives a great performance. He also had great chemistry with Ridley. The throne room fight was was great. And Luke facing off against the walkers and Kylo Ren was just superb. These puts TLJ head and shoulders above VII and IX but that is not saying much. And Johnson at least tried something different.

My issue with Johnson is that he had the opportunity to save the ST by jettisoning all the remake rubbish that Abrams and Kasdan brought in.

Opening scene of VIII we discover that the enough of New Republic fleet did survive to crush the First Order. Kylo Ren is captured. Turns out Snoke is the advance scout a massive alien invasion and that the Kinihts of Ren are their "Jedi". New bad guys. Finn wakes up and we actually discover why isn't behaving like a guy who just overcame years of brainwashing and it is used to bring freedom and justice to the other troopers (rear than killing them and cheering about it). On Ach-To Rey's discovers the reason Luke went into exile - he has Padawans that were too young to fight and he choose to stay with them. Also has few left in comas by Kylo Ren and he came to the first temple to learn to wake them. And Rey is a nobody. And Poe ... who gives a toss?

The real actual travesty that befell Star Wars is Abrams. I had associated the man with great imagination but getting hired to work on Star Wars must have burst a few neural pathways because Episode VII just complete lack of imagination.
Facts? Based on what?

Your opinion.

You have lost the plot.

EDIT: Is that your idea for Episode 8? Good thing your weren't hired for VII...
 
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Facts? Based on what?

Your opinion.

You have lost the plot.

EDIT: Is that your idea for Episode 8? Good thing your weren't hired for VII...
No it is a statement of fact that TFA is nothing but a remake. A fact the characters are copies of OT characters and those that are not go nowhere. And a fact it is actually Abrams who is responsible for turning the potential of the Sequels into dog food.

That Episode 8 idea is just something I made up as I was typing to show that it was easy get rid of some of Abrams terrible ideas and give Finn an actual purpose. A actual writer would be able to come with something much superior.

Your little "put down" is has given me a few chuckles. Not only do you believe that I think my story idea is good, but you're actually not good at ideas yourself because it didn't come to you until after you posted.
 
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No it is a statement of fact that TFA is nothing but a remake. A fact the characters are copies of OT characters and those that are not go nowhere. And a fact it is actually Abrams who is responsible for turning the potential of the Sequels into dog food.

That Episode 8 idea is just something I made up as I was typing to show that it was easy get rid of some of Abrams terrible ideas and give Finn an actual purpose. A actual writer would be able to come with something much superior.

Your little "put down" is has given me a few chuckles. Not only do you believe that I think my story idea is good, but you're actually not good at ideas yourself because it didn't come to you until after you posted.
Ok. Got it.

So it's a "statement of fact" that TFA is a remake? Again I ask...based on what? It seems as if it is is your opinion (and possibly the opinion of others) that TFA takes story beats from the original trilogy but where is the factual evidence? I can easily say (in my opinion) that TLJ takes more from ESB and ROTJ than TFA takes from ANH. The Cave of Evil, the almost identically shot elevator ride up to Snoke's throne room, the way Rey sees the space battle from the Throne Room, the Battle of Crait and the AT-ATs...all ripped off of ESB or ROTJ.

The only fact here is that you need to look up the definition of the word fact.
 
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Ok. Got it.

So it's a "statement of fact" that TFA is a remake? Again I ask...based on what? It seems as if it is is your opinion (and possibly the opinion of others) that TFA takes story beats from the original trilogy but where is the factual evidence? I can easily say (in my opinion) that TLJ takes more from ESB and ROTJ than TFA takes from ANH. The Cave of Evil, the almost identically shot elevator ride up to Snoke's throne room, the way Rey sees the space battle from the Throne Room, the Battle of Crait and the AT-ATs...all ripped off of ESB or ROTJ.

The only fact here is that you need to look up the definition of the word fact.
You say you "got it" but then ask for an explanation because you don't understand it?

Well which one is it?

The factual evidence is the movie. I never said TLJ did not copy the OT. I was simply pointing out that Johnson at least tried different things. Abrams did not. That there is a great acting performance in TLJ and and some ambitious scenes. In TFA, there is not.

The point of my posts is not that TLJ is a great or even good movie itself. It is that by comparison the other two it is and that Johnson is not the "ruiner" of Star Wars. That is Abrams. Johnson is guilty of missing the opportunity to save it.
 
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You say you "got it" but then ask for an explanation because you don't understand it?

Well which one is it?

The factual evidence is the movie. I never said TLJ did not copy the OT. I was simply pointing out that Johnson at least tried different things. Abrams did not. That there is a great acting performance in TLJ and and some ambitious scenes. In TFA, there is not.

The point of my posts is not that TLJ is a great or even good movie itself. It is that by comparison the other two it is and that Johnson is not the "ruiner" of Star Wars. That is Abrams. Johnson is guilty of missing the opportunity to save it.
I didn't ask for an explanation of anything.

Agree to disagree mate. Your opinion is that TFA was the downfall of the ST and my opinion is that TLJ was.

Like I said before you got snippy - to each their own.
 
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I didn't ask for an explanation of anything.

Agree to disagree mate. Your opinion is that TFA was the downfall of the ST and my opinion is that TLJ was.

Like I said before you got snippy - to each their own.
Actual you did ask for an explanation. The whole second paragraph was one.

Agree to disagree? Who was asking for agreement?

I think I actually said Abrams was the cause, but same thing and it is not my opinion that it is the downfall - it is a fact.

Where is my posts was I snippy? I know you were, but don't see where you think I was.
 
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Actual you did ask for an explanation. The whole second paragraph was one.

Agree to disagree? Who was asking for agreement?

I think I actually said Abrams was the cause, but same thing and it is not my opinion that it is the downfall - it is a fact.

Where is my posts was I snippy? I know you were, but don't see where you think I was.
It's not a fact - it's an opinion...but I'm not going to keep arguing with a dunce lol
 
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It's not a fact - it's an opinion...but I'm not going to keep arguing with a dunce lol
See "snippy". Name calling just because you don't like something. Very disappointing.

And it is a fact. You just don't understand it.
 
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Holy **** man


Your opinion that JJ Abrams did a bad job with TFA is not a fact.
No it is not an opinion - it is an actual fact.

You don't seem to understand what I am saying.

Also, first name calling and now profanity? Why are you such a bad mood?
 
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No it is not an opinion - it is an actual fact.

You don't seem to understand what I am saying.

Also, first name calling and now profanity? Why are you such a bad mood?
I'm far from a bad mood friend - this has been quite entertaining.
 
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TBH, they would need to go back and redo TFA, and make it either all about the old guard passing it to the next or nothing at all to do with them.
Because TFA started the mess of making the older generation moot, but need them to get butts in seats plain and simple!

I still feel in order for the "numbered" saga to work, which GL stated was about the "Skywalker story". You need to make it mainly(3/4) about them and/or their descendants. So this is why most people expected the new batch to be either Luke's or Han and Liea's Kids. Which kind of was.

TFA should have been about the them setting up the new generation, not the other way around. Since they were going to make other movies anyways, they should have just started with the Spin-offs and took their time to figure out exactly what to do and how to approach the story for the end of the old Saga and beginning of anew one.
 
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I'm far from a bad mood friend - this has been quite entertaining.
The name calling and profanity suggests underlies.

You may be entertained as you claim but you clearly do not understand what I am saying,
 
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TBH, they would need to go back and redo TFA, and make it either all about the old guard passing it to the next or nothing at all to do with them.
Because TFA started the mess of making the older generation moot, but need them to get butts in seats plain and simple!

I still feel in order for the "numbered" saga to work, which GL stated was about the "Skywalker story". You need to make it mainly(3/4) about them and/or their descendants. So this is why most people expected the new batch to be either Luke's or Han and Liea's Kids. Which kind of was.

TFA should have been about the them setting up the new generation, not the other way around. Since they were going to make other movies anyways, they should have just started with the Spin-offs and took their time to figure out exactly what to do and how to approach the story for the end of the old Saga and beginning of anew one.
Where were you six years ago? Not working Lucasfilm anyway ;)
 
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The name calling and profanity suggests underlies.

You may be entertained as you claim but you clearly do not understand what I am saying,
The best part of all of this is that you can't even explain what you are saying.

There is no way that you can clarify how your opinion that JJ Abrams was the cause of the ST sucking is a fact. It may be a fact to you. But it's not a fact. It's a personal opinion (albeit one that a lot of people agree with - I'm not disputing that)...but it's an opinion.

But this has been entertaining...that is a fact :LOL:
 
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The best part of all of this is that you can't even explain what you are saying.

There is no way that you can clarify how your opinion that JJ Abrams was the cause of the ST sucking is a fact. It may be a fact to you. But it's not a fact. It's a personal opinion (albeit one that a lot of people agree with - I'm not disputing that)...but it's an opinion.

But this has been entertaining...that is a fact :LOL:
No it is being the daddy of that is bad with the Sequels is a fact .

Opinion does not come into it and there is nothing to clarify or explain.

It is just a fact.
 
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No it is being the daddy of that is bad with the Sequels is a fact .

Opinion does not come into it and there is nothing to clarify or explain.

It is just a fact.
Wait...what? Now I have no idea what you are talking about. Daddy?
 
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Wait...what? Now I have no idea what you are talking about. Daddy?
This is what I've been telling you. That you don't understand.

But at least you understand that you don't understand.
 
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not taking sides.... just shining a light on this....

while I was watching old interviews from GL yesterday, I noticed one of the "pre-PT" interviews where he actually said out loud that he was writing three movies at the same time. let that sink in.

I mean, people can say what they want about the PT, but it DOES have this underlying virtue: it's an actual Trilogy. the kernels for the three movies were all written at the same time, by the same guy.

(even the OT, with all of its deviations from "George's Original Vision", at least it actually HAD an "original vision" to follow. LOL)

but when it comes to the ST, the "factual" reason why it sucks is because of all this "mystery box" crap. TFA was written like the pilot episode of LOST. it was merely a "Setup", for a generic story, that hadn't been written yet.

JJ did -NOT- write a "three-movie-arc" for the ST; this -is- a statement of fact.

*shrug*

(therefore , JJ "being the daddy of what is bad with the sequels" is also kinda true, from a certain point of view).





at least, I THINK that's what both sides are trying to say. LOL

(please continue)
 
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not taking sides.... just shining a light on this....

while I was watching old interviews from GL yesterday, I noticed one of the "pre-PT" interviews where he actually said out loud that he was writing three movies at the same time. let that sink in.

I mean, people can say what they want about the PT, but it DOES have this underlying virtue: it's an actual Trilogy. the kernels for the three movies were all written at the same time, by the same guy.

(even the OT, with all of its deviations from "George's Original Vision", actually HAD an original vision to follow. LOL)

but when it comes to the ST, the "factual" reason why it sucks is because of all this "mystery box" ********. TFA was written like the pilot episode of LOST. it was merely a "Setup" for a generic story, that hadn't been written yet.

JJ did -NOT- write a "three-movie-arc" for the ST -- this -is- a statement of fact.

*shrug*

(therefore , JJ "being the daddy of what is bad with the sequels" is also kinda true, from a certain point of view).





at least, I THINK that's what both sides are trying to say. LOL

(please continue)
Well it is what I'm saying - you just said it better :)
 
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not taking sides.... just shining a light on this....

while I was watching old interviews from GL yesterday, I noticed one of the "pre-PT" interviews where he actually said out loud that he was writing three movies at the same time. let that sink in.

I mean, people can say what they want about the PT, but it DOES have this underlying virtue: it's an actual Trilogy. the kernels for the three movies were all written at the same time, by the same guy.

(even the OT, with all of its deviations from "George's Original Vision", at least it actually HAD an "original vision" to follow. LOL)

but when it comes to the ST, the "factual" reason why it sucks is because of all this "mystery box" crap. TFA was written like the pilot episode of LOST. it was merely a "Setup", for a generic story, that hadn't been written yet.

JJ did -NOT- write a "three-movie-arc" for the ST; this -is- a statement of fact.

*shrug*

(therefore , JJ "being the daddy of what is bad with the sequels" is also kinda true, from a certain point of view).





at least, I THINK that's what both sides are trying to say. LOL

(please continue)
Nothing you said is a "fact"

It's all opinion. Tons of people LOVE the ST. It is Star Wars for them. There are no facts as to what is "good" or "bad". It's all opinion.
 
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Nothing you said is a "fact"

It's all opinion. Tons of people LOVE the ST. It is Star Wars for them. There are no facts as to what is "good" or "bad". It's all opinion.
Every point I made to you was fact. Not opinion.

You may have an opinion on it but that doesn't change the facts.

People loving the Sequels does not change the facts. I mean people love reality TV - that doesn't make reality TV good.

The ST is rubbish and Abrams is responsible for that. Fact.
 
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Nothing you said is a "fact"

It's all opinion. Tons of people LOVE the ST. It is Star Wars for them. There are no facts as to what is "good" or "bad". It's all opinion.
ok well let's try this then LOL

- prior to the ST, as creator of SW, GL defined what it means, for a film to actually BE a SW movie. (seems like fact not opinion, since GL made ALL the SW movies prior to the ST, he's responsible for the "Definition" of what-SW-is)

- the OT and the PT were planned ahead of time -- GL wrote '3-movie-arcs' for ALL of his trilogies -- this was a "Defining" characteristic of GL's trilogies. (seems like fact not opinion, since 100% of GL's trilogies were made this way)

- TFA, on the other hand, was written in JJ's infamous "mystery box" format -- where even the WRITER, does NOT know the answers to the questions he is posing -- TFA precluded GL's "defining" method, of a "planned trilogy" for the ST. (seems like fact not opinion)

- JJ is responsible for.. whatever TFA turned out to be... (seems like fact not opinion);
JJ is responsible for the ST being, 'different by design', compared to any other SW trilogy to date.

(or, if you like, JJ is responsible for the fact that the ST, as a whole, was -NOT- a "planned trilogy" in the GL-style -- seems like fact not opinion -- this all started with TFA).




we good so far?




the only thing left to determine is: can it be "factually" stated, that the ST is a "Bad"-example-of-a-"SW-trilogy"?
and I think the answer is "Yes". by definition.

ie : if something, (anything), deviates from its own definition,
then that would make it a "bad" example of that thing.

a dalmatian-with-no-spots, is a BAD example of a "dalmatian";
a car-with-square-wheels, is a BAD example of a "car";
an aeroplane-with-no-wings, is a BAD example of an "aeroplane";
and a SW-trilogy-with-no-plan, is a BAD example of a "SW trilogy" ;) LOL




--> I think, in the end, it CAN be factually stated: JJ is "responsible" for the ST being a "bad" example of a SW trilogy.
whether people "like it" or not, is really sort of irrelevant.. after all.. some people might "LIKE" to have a car-with-square-wheels LOL.
(that doesn't change the Fact , that it's a BAD example of a "car") ;) cheers!
 
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ok well let's try this then LOL

- prior to the ST, as creator of SW, GL defined what it means, for a film to actually BE a SW movie. (seems like fact not opinion, since GL made ALL the SW movies prior to the ST, he's responsible for the "Definition" of what-SW-is)

- the OT and the PT were planned ahead of time -- GL wrote '3-movie-arcs' for ALL of his trilogies -- this was a "Defining" characteristic of GL's trilogies. (seems like fact not opinion, since both GL's trilogies were made this way)

- TFA, on the other hand, was written in JJ's infamous "mystery box" format -- where even the writer, does NOT know the answers to the questions he is posing -- TFA precluded GL's "defining" method, of a "planned trilogy" for the ST. (seems like fact not opinion)

- JJ is responsible for.. whatever TFA turned out to be... (seems like fact not opinion)...
JJ is responsible for the ST being, 'different by design', compared to any other SW trilogy to date.

(or, if you like, JJ is responsible for the fact that the ST, as a whole, was -NOT- a "planned trilogy" in the GL-style -- seems like fact not opinion).




we good so far?




the only thing left to determine is: can it be "factually" stated, that the ST is a "Bad"-example-of-a-"SW-trilogy"?
and I think the answer is Yes. by definition.

ie : if something, (anything), deviates from its own definition,
then that would make it a "bad" example of that thing.

a dalmatian-with-no-spots, is a BAD example of a "dalmatian";
a car-with-square-wheels, is a BAD example of a "car";
an aeroplane-with-no-wings, is a BAD example of an "aeroplane";
and a SW-trilogy-with-no-plan, is a BAD example of a "SW trilogy" ;) LOL




--> I think, in the end, it CAN be factually stated: JJ is "responsible" for the ST being a "bad" example of a SW trilogy.
whether people "like it" or not, is really sort of irrelevant.. after all.. some people might "LIKE" to have a car-with-square-wheels LOL.
(that doesn't change the Fact , that it's a BAD example of a "car") ;) cheers!
 

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