Well it finally looks like our fears can be confirmed

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I hate to say it but it's like a virus. It will spread and there will be no way to contain it. What is to stop this person/persons from creating high grade fakes of multiple other figures?
 
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To me the most telling things are: Right leg at the hip (angle of projection at joint and all the repro pics seem to have this "look", legs coming to a point versus wider stance, flashing at the lower part of the blaster mag, COO is the same as the repros. Less telling, but red flags came up with location and condition of figure, while not impossible for a mideast location to have a dead mint fig, VERY uncommon. I guess from studying the fakes it "read" the same to me, probably the way if you know looking at a MOC repro is fake in 2 seconds. I'm sure there are other signs, and most are intuitive. My guess is that these are nearly impossible to tell for a newbie without a reference photo or long term experience. It does have a realistic COO and looks "right," but too good.
Hey Guys, from a newbie...what are the tells that this is a fake? Thanks!
 
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To me the most telling things are: Right leg at the hip (angle of projection at joint and all the repro pics seem to have this "look", legs coming to a point versus wider stance, flashing at the lower part of the blaster mag, COO is the same as the repros. Less telling, but red flags came up with location and condition of figure, while not impossible for a mideast location to have a dead mint fig, VERY uncommon. I guess from studying the fakes it "read" the same to me, probably the way if you know looking at a MOC repro is fake in 2 seconds. I'm sure there are other signs, and most are intuitive. My guess is that these are nearly impossible to tell for a newbie without a reference photo or long term experience. It does have a realistic COO and looks "right," but too good.
Thanks for the info. I looked at my stormtroopers and none have the leg angle you spoke of (these are my childhood toys) I guess the less obvious (angle of projection at joint..not sure what you mean) would be some of thie things I will have to pick up on. It is good to know the experienced collectors here are always on the watch for this kind of thing. Friends over at SWCC do the same and it helps guys like me out a great deal. Thanks to you all!!! Rolo
 
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I don't get it, so repro figures are being made and sold out of Haifa or is the location a scam?
 
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I don't get it, so repro figures are being made and sold out of Haifa or is the location a scam?
The problem is that super-white, minty Stormtroopers can usually sell for about $30 or so. Some unsuspecting person may end up paying that much for a piece of repro junk. That's the problem with these things.
 
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The problem is that super-white, minty Stormtroopers can usually sell for about $30 or so. Some unsuspecting person may end up paying that much for a piece of repro junk. That's the problem with these things.
No I know repro's are wrong to be sold as real, but I mean.. why Haifa? Israel getting in the Bootleg game now?
 
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Yet another example of how idiots who want repro 'fillers' in their collections enable the repro market that is ruining the hobby. If you're not taking a hard line against any form of vintage reproduction, you are enabling it. Unfortunately for the hobby, the world is full of stupid people who don't get it.
 
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Yet another example of how idiots who want repro 'fillers' in their collections enable the repro market that is ruining the hobby. If you're not taking a hard line against any form of vintage reproduction, you are enabling it. Unfortunately for the hobby, the world is full of stupid people who don't get it.
I wish I could "Like" this a million times over. Yes the world is chocked full of stupid people that enable repro makers and scammers.
 
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Very true, but and a big old nasty but, regardless of the person's actual IQ, that person's "collecting IQ" (if there is such a thing) is pretty low. The person buying repros may not being doing harm to his own collection, but once that repro hits the market again...who knows what could happen. It's the big picture that's important.

Thanks to the internet with places like here and eBay, it is no longer all that difficult to find any production item especially legit weapons. In this day and age it's just lazy to settle for repros. I usually think of impatience when I think of the need for repros.

Alex
 
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Very true, but and a big old nasty but, regardless of the person's actual IQ, that person's "collecting IQ" (if there is such a thing) is pretty low. The person buying repros may not being doing harm to his own collection, but once that repro hits the market again...who knows what could happen. It's the big picture that's important.

Thanks to the internet with places like here and eBay, it is no longer all that difficult to find any production item especially legit weapons. In this day and age it's just lazy to settle for repros. I usually think of impatience when I think of the need for repros.

Alex
EXACTLY! If you are patient you can get the real deal items for a good price. Granted repros are cheaper, but there is a reason for it. They are not real. Like I said on another post the person who buys the repro may want it for his own personal self. Now if something were to happen to the person, sad but true, the repro will become part of the estate and no matter how it is sold the new seller and future buyer has no idea it is a fake buying it for the real thing. They may now over pay or possibly try to sell it and get burned by somebody who finds it as fake. It just opens the door for someone who IS knowingly selling fakes to pass them off easier as more doubt gets added to the legitimacy of what is real and fake. The line over time will start to blur.

Just because you don't agree on someone else's buying habits doesn't make the other person less intelligent.

Stupidity does not determine levels of intelligence. Wisdom determines it. Everyone makes stupid choices at times even the most intellectual people. Wisdom is knowing those mistakes and to learn from them.

Who's More foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him? refers to this principle.
 
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All in all I really feel it falls on the maker of repros to mark them as such. It's that person's responsibility.

Alex
 
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The way the legs lean in is a usual sign, also the upper portion of the figures right leg at the hip is wider at the top than a regular figure, causing the leg lean in. Details on the eyes and the distant picture, prohibit too close of an inspection, but I'd say 99% chance of repro fig. If you notice on the upper right leg the black also goes a tad lower than the left leg paint. This is consistent with the repro as well. The left leg is slightly shorter than the right, another sign of repro (the toe points slightly up on these). Not apparent in the picture there is flashing on the head toward the left side of the head, which looks like the second picture, but the first is obscured by the bubble. Eye paint is always really angular an the corners, as in these two. I do hope this helps. Good catch.


or this one? Same seller, I will remove the links if they are legit, but they seem like the ones described..

VINTAGE 1977 KENNER MINT STORMTROOPER ON 12 BACK TOLTOYS AUSTRALIAN CARD COOL!! | eBay
 
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Oh dear, that Toltoys one is especially worrying. If these carded figures are repro this is bad news indeed. When I first started collecting I almost got duped by a seller on Ebay with a fake carded figure, the figure was legit but the card was fake. Fortunately for me it was when other members could see the ID of the buyer and I was warned by several members that I had purchased a fake.

As history has shown these won't take long to fall into the hands of scammers!
 
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Repro figures on repro cards as a concern is getting really nutty... I wouldn't have a problem, but the ads do say "Perfect 1977 Kenner Stormtrooper in C9.8 grade". There's the rub. In a card it looks right to almost anyone. If the ad said " repro stormtrooper" it would be at least honest. If it said repro but didn't mention the stormtrooper being repro specifically if the seller knows, it could wind up off the card and inserted into another collection as a mint real figure.

Here's the bottom line in my humble opinion: These figures exist. If we cannot stop their existence, we must deal with them as being out there. Repros have existed forever. As long as coins have been made, people faked them. We only have to educate ourselves and others as to what figures are possible fakes- so far that list is limited, and most stand out easily. To pretend they can be stopped if a buck can be made is to deny reality.

If one chooses to misrepresent an item, they will. As much as I am not a fan of ex-pres Regan, he had a policy of "Trust, but Verify" which means there is a responsibility to know that people sometimes lie, and while something may or may not be real, if we start with their assertion, VERIFY what they are saying. As much as AFA of a grading body can be detested for various reasons, experts are sometimes needed with the high quality fakes out there.

North Korea has been making counterfeit US $100 bills for over a decade that pass most bank inspection devices. There will always be people who con, and people who don't.

Personal responsibility to be truthful is not enforcable. One must protect their own interests. If I buy a figure and something looks wrong, I investigate further. Sometimes I miss something, it is the risk of dealing with anything that has value.
 
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Dax

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Yes J74, that auction you linked to is indeed one of the recent fake Stormtroopers, now being deceptively sold on ebay by one of the biggest low-life counterfeiters for the hobby. The ebay user name in case anyone is interested is costablancastarwars 132 auctions of fakes, which ebay tacitly approve of by not removing. Hey, so long as they're getting their cut of the profit why should they shut him and his fellow dirt-bags down?

All we can do is educate the collecting fraternity. Firstly about the real damage that is caused by fakes and how money paid to these guys provides the resources for them to cause greater problems in the future, and secondly on how to spot the fakes and avoid them.

Then there's the PR campaign: "Ladies, if a man is so low as to stoop to making fake toys, you know he's going to have to fake it downstairs too. Make sure you only date the real thing. Demand the genuine article and say no to the pretenders!"

And finally there's the Contiki Tour Solution: Travel around the globe to numerous different countries, experience the culture, the language, then introduce a counterfeiter to "The Chicago Way" (See "The Untouchables" for more detail!).
 
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Its no surprise that someone 'famous' for their fake/reproduction items has got hold of these. The sad thing is that a lot of buyers will take these thinking that they are not loosing too much as at least they will have a minty loose figure. What a shame this has happened.
 
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I was asked if the gun really floats, YES, indefinitely, unless pushed under, then it does sink.
 
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Ugh, I wish I had seen these before buying from this *****. He had a nice carded stormtrooper, where i knew it was a recard, it was advertised as being a legit figure. I bought it with the intent to open it. Found out immediately that the blaster was fake, called him out on it, but I figured it was a decent deal to hang on to the figure anyhow.

Little did I know, now I am really pissed and beyond the claim period.

Guess I am still in the hunt for a nice white stormtrooper.
 
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Ugh, I wish I had seen these before buying from this *****. He had a nice carded stormtrooper, where i knew it was a recard, it was advertised as being a legit figure. I bought it with the intent to open it. Found out immediately that the blaster was fake, called him out on it, but I figured it was a decent deal to hang on to the figure anyhow.

Little did I know, now I am really pissed and beyond the claim period.

Guess I am still in the hunt for a nice white stormtrooper.
Sorry to hear that, what a bummer! This is a prime example of how even "honest reproductions" will continue to hurt the hobby in the long run.
 
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are there other faked figures besides stormtrooper out there? i always thought it was only mocs and accessories that were faked
 
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are there other faked figures besides stormtrooper out there? i always thought it was only mocs and accessories that were faked
Sadly there are - and these are very new so be wary. In hand they'd be easy to spot because they're made of resin and unarticulated but in a job lot photo taken at a distance very very easy to be conned by





Sorry to say these are coming from a UK seller... after the Toy Toni stuff and the repro inserts guy now making fake boxes I am starting to become rather ashamed of some of my countrymen.
 
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Just because you don't agree on someone else's buying habits doesn't make the other person less intelligent.
Stupidity has nothing to do with intelligence. Stupidity relates to wisdom.

However, not understanding the difference relates to intelligence. :sneaky:
 
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