Unproduced Star Wars Toys - Sansweet Article

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Hello Scummers,

I've been reading up on the unproduced Kenner toys from their 1985-86 binder and there is an article referenced by Stephen Sansweet that I would love to read. Apparently the article was entitled "Galactic Bazaar: Tales of Phantom Toys: Unproduced Kenner Star Wars toys" and was in "Topps' Star Wars Galaxy Collector Magazine, Issue 2, Winter 1995."

I am really hoping someone on this forum might have an old copy? If they were able to scan the article and PM me with it I would be really massively grateful. Thank you in advance if you can help you are an absolute star!
 
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Imperial base playset for the ATAT would have been wonderful. Maybe priced like the GIJOE flagg.

-James
 
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hey HAS, what are u waiting for!!! wake up the modern TVC line and get these goodies in production!!!! I know i know,,,, wishful thinking....:( Would be nice to see AT AT with that cannon on the back.
 
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hey HAS, what are u waiting for!!! wake up the modern TVC line and get these goodies in production!!!! I know i know,,,, wishful thinking....:( Would be nice to see AT AT with that cannon on the back.
There was a really nice custom w/ a Death Star cannon mounted on the back on Evilbay a few years ago. I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to make.
 
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I've been reading up on the unproduced Kenner toys from their 1985-86 binder and there is an article referenced by Stephen Sansweet that I would love to read. Apparently the article was entitled "Galactic Bazaar: Tales of Phantom Toys: Unproduced Kenner Star Wars toys" and was in "Topps' Star Wars Galaxy Collector Magazine, Issue 2, Winter 1995."

I am really hoping someone on this forum might have an old copy? If they were able to scan the article and PM me with it I would be really massively grateful. Thank you in advance if you can help you are an absolute star!
Here you go (I scanned my copy):

http://web.ncf.ca/cn333/swgmagtoys.PDF

Enjoy!

I had forgotten what a great magazine this was. Lots of interesting articles and bonus posters, cards etc. It's a shame it lasted only 8 issues.
 
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It would have been great if this line happened. The Atha Prime concept was used in Dark Empire as the Imperial Sentinel, and that figure was made in the Expanded Universe line. I purchased a Mungo custom at Celebration Europe II. However the best part would have been that we would have had a vintage Grand Moff Tarkin figure if this line happened.

Thanks for posting the article, I have been wanting to read this also.
 
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Great thread - thanks also for posting that article from the old SW Galaxy magazine - I had that at one time, but it's long gone. This is one of the many things I like about the Internet - you can find almost anything ;)

RE: these unproduced EU toys, it's interesting to speculate on whether they would have been released if the Kenner line hadn't been cancelled in '85; however, I agree it's not much of a loss that they never came out - in all honesty, they don't look that great & are basically just re-treads of figures/vehicles that were already in the line.

At least the Kenner "Mini-rigs" from the '80's (Endor Forest Ranger, etc.) looked original..unlike these unproduced toys...
 
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I also recall seeing concept art for Luke in Jedi Robes.
If I remember correctly it basically looked like Luke wearing a bathrobe!
 
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Scott, thank you so much for taking the time to make this available and helping out a fellow collector - really appreciated.
 
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I agree. Some of it looks pretty lazy.
It's probably a mistake to assume that most of those kit-bashed things represent anything more than some guy's flight of fancy. They're just rough ideas. I think you can be pretty certain that no Mungo Beefhead Tribesman would have been released, even if the line had continued in some way.

Plus, the presentation as a whole seems like a mishmash of various concepts and possibly even time periods. The Falcon vehicle thing was probably a legitimate mini-rig idea. The Atha Prime stuff seems like the result of an idea aimed at treating SW as more of a G.I. Joe-style property. Tarkin and the bantha are just obvious things that could have been made but weren't. The Hoth vehicle was first proposed back in 1980. The kit-bashed pieces . . . who knows. Most of that stuff is pretty silly. I'm guessing the presentation was a very broad look at what they could potentially make. A brainstorming type of thing.
 
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I also recall seeing concept art for Luke in Jedi Robes.
If I remember correctly it basically looked like Luke wearing a bathrobe!
There's a line-drawing/blueprint-type piece representing that figure in a collection. Its turning up was one of the first tip-offs that the robes figure was intended for the ROTJ line. I think it references "Revenge" or bears an '82 date.

Someday a piece of LFL material is going to surface showing that early Luke Jedi outfit. Gotta be out there somewhere.
 
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It's probably a mistake to assume that most of those kit-bashed things represent anything more than some guy's flight of fancy. They're just rough ideas. I think you can be pretty certain that no Mungo Beefhead Tribesman would have been released, even if the line had continued in some way.
Definitely. We saw some horrendous-looking kit bashed stuff in the early days that turned out to be decent toys. What doesn't impress me were the expanded universe-type *ideas* Kenner was coming up with to prolong the new line. The Beefhead and Atha Prime stories sound pretty weak and uninteresting. What I do like are the items that were 'passed over' from the original trilogy that could have been made like Tarkin and the Rebel Blockade Runner. As the movies were still being rereleased in the mid-eighties, Kenner could have continued to create toys from all 3 movies and maybe even have continued the Collector Series line for younger kids who may have missed out on the original items that were no longer available on store shelves in 1985. The support of the rereleased movies would have still maintained the interest of these younger kids in the line. With no story to support them, the expanded universe stuff would have ceased quickly IMHO.

One item I thought Kenner really dropped the ball on was a larger Cloud City playset. A Cloud City playset designed along the lines of the Palitoy Death Star with separate rooms for visitor's quarters, dining room, prisoner cell, gantry, landing platform and best of all - the carbon freezing chamber. That would have been great! Somehow, the Sears Cloud City playset didn't quite fit the bill. :grin:
 
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Hello Scummers,

I've been reading up on the unproduced Kenner toys from their 1985-86 binder and there is an article referenced by Stephen Sansweet that I would love to read. Apparently the article was entitled "Galactic Bazaar: Tales of Phantom Toys: Unproduced Kenner Star Wars toys" and was in "Topps' Star Wars Galaxy Collector Magazine, Issue 2, Winter 1995."

I am really hoping someone on this forum might have an old copy? If they were able to scan the article and PM me with it I would be really massively grateful. Thank you in advance if you can help you are an absolute star!
Here's what your after....





The same issue also contained a role playing game which used these images...



 
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You mean an inhouse LFL piece, 'cause else there is the Trilogo inbox toy poster?

-Alex
Yeah, I mean something from LFL showing, say, a costume drawing of Luke as a Jedi wearing robes like that. Presumably Kenner based the figure on input from Lucasfilm. Then had to change it when LFL changed the character design.
 
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Yeah, I mean something from LFL showing, say, a costume drawing of Luke as a Jedi wearing robes like that. Presumably Kenner based the figure on input from Lucasfilm. Then had to change it when LFL changed the character design.

All early conceptual designs for Luke's costume seem to be the black outfit he ultimately wore. The extremely comprehensive Making of ROTJ book that came out last year showed no evidence of any alternate costume design that would resemble that robed outfit. I would think long Obi-Wan style robes would have also hindered his lightsaber duel with Vader, preventing the stunt man from doing any of the acrobatic work Luke did during that scene. It would be an impractical costume for him to wear for that reason alone. My only other theory would be that maybe it was conceptualized as a final outfit for him to wear at the end of the film on Endor... kind of teasing the return of the classic Jedi Order he would go on to rebuild, with a costume similar in style to what Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda were wearing.

In any case, even if it WAS considered as a Luke ROTJ outfit, surely it was nixed long before it would have reached Kenner to begin toy design. Otherwise we would have probably seen concept art of it by now in the Making of ROTJ book or prior behind the scenes media.
 
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All early conceptual designs for Luke's costume seem to be the black outfit he ultimately wore. The extremely comprehensive Making of ROTJ book that came out last year showed no evidence of any alternate costume design that would resemble that robed outfit. I would think long Obi-Wan style robes would have also hindered his lightsaber duel with Vader, preventing the stunt man from doing any of the acrobatic work Luke did during that scene. It would be an impractical costume for him to wear for that reason alone. My only other theory would be that maybe it was conceptualized as a final outfit for him to wear at the end of the film on Endor... kind of teasing the return of the classic Jedi, similar in style to what Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda were wearing.

In any case, even if it WAS considered as a Luke ROTJ outfit, surely it was nixed long before it would have reached Kenner to begin toy design. Otherwise we would have probably seen concept art of it by now in the Making of ROTJ book or prior behind the scenes media.
Kenner would have had the LFL designs before just about anyone. They would have been working on toys nearly a full year before the film began shooting. Remember the infamous story about their sculpting Madine with a beard because they based the design on a photo of the actor taken long before the shoot. When he showed up to film his scenes, he was clean shaven, so they gave him a fake beard because the Kenner figure had already been produced.

Kenner didn't sculpt the whole robes figure along with the other early Jedi figures without input from Lucasfilm. The fact that the design didn't show up in a book doesn't really mean much. We might be talking about one rough concept sketch. It might well be true that LFL ditched the robes because they were cumbersome and wouldn't work during the fight scenes. But I guarantee you that, early on, they were telling Kenner that Luke would wear robes like that in the movie. And Kenner surely sculpted it based on some kind of visual input that came from LFL. I mean, that should be obvious.

I have some Kenner paperwork showing the progress of all the early Jedi figures. The progress chart for Luke Jedi shows progress on the gun and saber but nothing on the actual figure -- even though all the other figures show progress save the two ewoks. The notes next to the Luke Jedi row say "completely up in the air," meaning Lucasfilm was still working on the character's design. On another sheet the Luke has "REMAKE" written in bold print next to it as well as absolutely no progress on the figure, even though the other figures were fast underway, including the ewoks.

The only reasonable explanation, IMO, is that Kenner began working on the Luke Jedi figure along with the other early ROTJ figures based on input from Lucasfilm, then had to ditch it and start over -- again, based on input from Lucasfilm.
 
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It's probably a mistake to assume that most of those kit-bashed things represent anything more than some guy's flight of fancy. They're just rough ideas. I think you can be pretty certain that no Mungo Beefhead Tribesman would have been released, even if the line had continued in some way.

Plus, the presentation as a whole seems like a mishmash of various concepts and possibly even time periods. The Falcon vehicle thing was probably a legitimate mini-rig idea. The Atha Prime stuff seems like the result of an idea aimed at treating SW as more of a G.I. Joe-style property. Tarkin and the bantha are just obvious things that could have been made but weren't. The Hoth vehicle was first proposed back in 1980. The kit-bashed pieces . . . who knows. Most of that stuff is pretty silly. I'm guessing the presentation was a very broad look at what they could potentially make. A brainstorming type of thing.
Yup. That's what I get looking at it. Everything they had come up with previously that had been left in a drawer. Pulled out to see if there was anything in it worthwhile in one last ditch attempt.
 
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One item I thought Kenner really dropped the ball on was a larger Cloud City playset. A Cloud City playset designed along the lines of the Palitoy Death Star with separate rooms for visitor's quarters, dining room, prisoner cell, gantry, landing platform and best of all - the carbon freezing chamber. That would have been great! Somehow, the Sears Cloud City playset didn't quite fit the bill. :grin:
Yes - as a kid I would have really liked this....And, as an adult collector I would be even more onboard for something like this; Cloud city was one of my favorite settings in the OT.

However, in the 21st century I'm not sure I would be onboard for a cardboard type playset, unless it were done extremely well; that being said, I didn't mind the POTF2 Cantina & Jabba's palace cardboard playsets from the '90's.
 
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Kenner didn't sculpt the whole robes figure along with the other early Jedi figures without input from Lucasfilm. The fact that the design didn't show up in a book doesn't really mean much. We might be talking about one rough concept sketch. It might well be true that LFL ditched the robes because they were cumbersome and wouldn't work during the fight scenes. But I guarantee you that, early on, they were telling Kenner that Luke would wear robes like that in the movie. And Kenner surely sculpted it based on some kind of visual input that came from LFL. I mean, that should be obvious.
It could also be that Kenner simply used previously available promotional material for the only known human Jedi costume at the time - Ben Kenobi:



The V-neck, belt and layered clothing over the legs are nearly identical to Ben Kenobi's Jedi costume in Star Wars. Kenner could have just assumed that all Jedi wore the same robes and started working on the Luke Jedi figure with this assumption. Even the little 'foldover' over the right-side foot looks like it came from Ben Kenobi photos. The earliest concept sketches I have seen of the Luke Jedi costume that appeared in ROTJ are dated late 1981. Maybe the switch to the final released sculpt occurred shortly after that.

Do your progress charts show any dates on them Ron?
 
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Another interesting fact I neglected to mention was that licensee representatives (including Kenner) visited the ROTJ set in February 1982 and had a reading of the abbreviated screenplay with Kazanjian, so maybe it was at this point Kenner realized that the Luke Jedi costume was going to be different and nixed the Jedi Robes sculpting.
 
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It could also be that Kenner simply used previously available promotional material for the only known human Jedi costume at the time - Ben Kenobi:



The V-neck, belt and layered clothing over the legs are nearly identical to Ben Kenobi's Jedi costume in Star Wars. Kenner could have just assumed that all Jedi wore the same robes and started working on the Luke Jedi figure with this assumption. Even the little 'foldover' over the right-side foot looks like it came from Ben Kenobi photos. The earliest concept sketches I have seen of the Luke Jedi costume that appeared in ROTJ are dated late 1981. Maybe the switch to the final released sculpt occurred shortly after that.

Do your progress charts show any dates on them Ron?
I have a hard time believing that's what happened. We're talking about the main character of the movie, basically. I don't think there's any way they start sculpting all the new characters based on LFL input, including minor ones like General Madine, and somehow the most important character is based on guesswork. That seems crazy to me. That's like imagining they'd pattern a major new vehicle using guesswork based on what was in the earlier films.

I suppose it's possible that Kenner received images of a "Jedi" that showed the Anakin costume and they assumed it was meant for Luke. But that's a pretty convoluted theory, and I don't think they would have been that sloppy. The more likely explanation is that at one point in time Luke was supposed to wear something similar to this -- at least at some point in the film. Doesn't mean he wouldn't also have wore the black outfit at other points.

Really, the "robes" outfit is not that different from the black outfit. The torso is pretty close to accurate. The limbs just have saggy rather than close-fitting material. It doesn't strike me as unbelievable that Lucasfilm had ideas for a costume like this, then changed or abandoned them.

I mean, Kenner did nutty things sometimes. They sculpted Gargan without getting LFL approval. But at least they knew what the character looked like!

The other theory -- and it's an old one -- is that the figure was intended as a post-ESB mailaway representing what Luke would look like as an older Jedi. Imagine a "Luke as Jedi Knight" promotion in place of the Ackbar one. But there is no evidence for that. And there IS evidence that this figure was intended as the regular Luke Jedi. So I think the theory defies Occam's Razor at this point.

The progress charts are dated early August of '82. At that point in time Kenner had not progressed at all on the regular Luke Jedi sculpt and, apparently, didn't even know how to proceed.
 
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Another interesting fact I neglected to mention was that licensee representatives (including Kenner) visited the ROTJ set in February 1982 and had a reading of the abbreviated screenplay with Kazanjian, so maybe it was at this point Kenner realized that the Luke Jedi costume was going to be different and nixed the Jedi Robes sculpting.
I think they probably knew of the black outfit before visiting the set. Kenner was working closely with Kenner by the time ROTJ rolled around.

I'm not saying that no one had seen the black outfit, or that Luke wasn't intended to wear that in the movie. I'm saying that it's likely that Luke was originally intended to also be seen in the robes outfit, at least in some parts of the film. At least that's what the evidence suggests.

I'm guessing that in the summer of '82 Kenner was informed that, in fact, no scenes showed Luke dressed in a robes outfit. And at that point they had to redo the figure -- because they couldn't launch without a Luke figure.
 
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One suggestive tidbit:

In the earliest drafts of the ROTJ screenplay, Luke is "dressed in black" when he goes to Jabba's palace.

In the draft from fall of '81, he is "clad in a robe similar to Ben's."

<<18 INT MAIN GATE AND HALL - JABBA'S PALACE

Noisily, the main gate lifts to flood the blackness with blinding LIGHT and reveal the silhouetted figure of Luke Skywalker. He is clad in a robe similar to Ben's and wears neither pistol nor laser sword. Luke strides purposefully into the hallway. Two giant guards move to block Luke's path. Luke halts.>>

So I guess the question is: Is that the ONLY thing Kenner based the sculpt on, or was there additional input from LFL?

I still have a hard time believing Kenner got design info on Madine and Ackbar but not on Luke.
 
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I have a hard time believing that's what happened. We're talking about the main character of the movie, basically. I don't think there's any way they start sculpting all the new characters based on LFL input, including minor ones like General Madine, and somehow the most important character is based on guesswork. That seems crazy to me. That's like imagining they'd pattern a major new vehicle using guesswork based on what was in the earlier films.
Right, but Kenner would have already had the baseline elements necessary to make the figure; they knew it was Luke so they already knew what the head would look like, and they also knew he was to be a Jedi, hence the Ben design, and there you have it. Previous photos already existed that would allow the sculptors to start designing early on. This could also be a similar situation that Kenner faced with Snaggletooth - given limited source material so they had to fill in the holes themselves when they started sculpting the character. They wound up getting it wrong and switched the tall blue Snaggletooth to the short red Snaggletooth. Similarly, Kenner could have started sculpting the Luke Jedi based on scant information they knew of and then once they received updated information from LFL, they switched to the design we know today (It's a leap of faith, I know). I could see Kenner not sculpting any brand new ROTJ characters given the fact that they were, well, new!

This is totally wild speculation on my part though. I'm not swayed either way. I hope we find out the real answer someday.

One suggestive tidbit:

In the earliest drafts of the ROTJ screenplay, Luke is "dressed in black" when he goes to Jabba's palace.

In the draft from fall of '81, he is "clad in a robe similar to Ben's."

<< 18 INT MAIN GATE AND HALL - JABBA'S PALACE

Noisily, the main gate lifts to flood the blackness with blinding LIGHT and reveal the silhouetted figure of Luke Skywalker. He is clad in a robe similar to Ben's and wears neither pistol nor laser sword. Luke strides purposefully into the hallway. Two giant guards move to block Luke's path. Luke halts.>>
Interesting. This description has the exact same elements I had mentioned earlier: 1. Luke Skywalker 2. Clad in a robe similar to Ben's

There were so many figures, playsets and vehicles being released at the time ROTJ was to be released, perhaps Kenner started early on the Luke to give themselves a little flexibility in their schedule.
 
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Right, but Kenner would have already had the baseline elements necessary to make the figure; they knew it was Luke so they already knew what the head would look like, and they also knew he was to be a Jedi, hence the Ben design, and there you have it. Previous photos already existed that would allow the sculptors to start designing early on. This could also be a similar situation that Kenner faced with Snaggletooth - given limited source material so they had to fill in the holes themselves when they started sculpting the character. They wound up getting it wrong and switched the tall blue Snaggletooth to the short red Snaggletooth. Similarly, Kenner could have started sculpting the Luke Jedi based on scant information they knew of and then once they received updated information from LFL, they switched to the design we know today (It's a leap of faith, I know). I could see Kenner not sculpting any brand new ROTJ characters given the fact that they were, well, new!
I hear you, but the Snaggletooth situation is really much different. For one thing, Kenner in the '70s really didn't have much reference. That wasn't true in the ROTJ era. For another, all of the Cantina creatures were obviously sculpted without concern for costume accuracy. I would assume Lucasfilm was okay with that. The real question there is: Why was Snaggletooth modified while the other Cantina creatures weren't? That's a discussion for another time, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Holiday Special had something to do with it.

Put it this way: Kenner had design input on the Luke character's gun. Per the paperwork I referenced earlier, the gun pattern was complete as of August '82. You really think they had detailed specs on the gun but not the costume? I just don't see it. It doesn't make sense.

I think the three most reasonable explanations are:

1) Lucasfilm at some point planned to have Luke wear an outfit like that, then they ditched the idea;

2) There was a major mistake made somewhere along the line, and it wasn't caught until summer of '82. Maybe Kenner really did get a costume sketch or photo for Anakin with "Skywalker Jedi" written on it, and they assumed it was intended for Luke based in part on the description in the screenplay.

3) Aliens. :^)
 
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Great thread, love seeing all these items - especially those attack droids. It would be cool if they used some of these ideas in the Rebels cartoon.
 
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i just wonder.... how much stuff is HAS sitting on from the vintage days of SW that hasnt been known, released, or isnt known yet.... like are they sitting on stuff that they might release in the future or re-tool?
 
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I think little to none. When the Kenner Morgue was moved from Cincinnati to Rhode Island, much was trashed and/or otherwise liberated.
 
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Put it this way: Kenner had design input on the Luke character's gun. Per the paperwork I referenced earlier, the gun pattern was complete as of August '82. You really think they had detailed specs on the gun but not the costume? I just don't see it. It doesn't make sense.
I loved reading the back and forth speculation on the development of Jedi Luke.... you guys bring up a lot of interesting points and great insight.
One thing I wonder though is about the gun that came with Jedi Luke - Being that the palace blaster is also used with other figures (gen Lando, poncho Luke), might they have had that information separately and maybe earlier?

- Paul
 
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I loved reading the back and forth speculation on the development of Jedi Luke.... you guys bring up a lot of interesting points and great insight.
One thing I wonder though is about the gun that came with Jedi Luke - Being that the palace blaster is also used with other figures (gen Lando, poncho Luke), might they have had that information separately and maybe earlier?

- Paul
On the progress sheet, it's just identified as the gun that was to come with Luke Jedi. There's no photo or description, so there's no way of knowing exactly what it looked like. For all we know, it could have been a completely different design that no one has ever seen.

Still . . . I think it's reasonable to assume it was the gun that eventually came with Luke Jedi, and that was later repackaged with Lando General. There is no note on the document saying the gun had to be redone, as there is with respect to the figure. Keep in mind that Lando General and Luke Poncho were released two years later. That gun wasn't developed for those figures; it was developed for Luke Jedi.

To restate, I really think it's very likely that Lucasfilm sent Kenner detailed information and/or images for the Luke Jedi outfit and gun. I can't imagine why they would have neglected to do that.

Scott may be onto something in his hunch that Kenner simply sculpted the robes figure on their own, based on assumptions. That would just really surprise me. I can't imagine them proceeding with detailed character/outfit info on Weequay, Ree Yees, General Madine, etc., and just guessing on Luke Jedi. That's why I think the robes figure was either a mistake deriving from a misunderstanding or based on something that was actually discussed/planned.

You knows, though . . .
 
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One thing I wonder though is about the gun that came with Jedi Luke - Being that the palace blaster is also used with other figures (gen Lando, poncho Luke)
Han in Carbonite didn't come with a gun - but if he did then he should have had that same gun too!

 
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