This one will be fun...

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It wouldn't matter if Rey woke up in her AT AT **** and found out it the last two films were just a dream.

The whole thing is busted at this point because there was no story.
 
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What are the chances Ruin Johnson has already seen the script?
I'm sure he knows JJ isn't retconning anything but going public with this makes him look like the "bigger man."
It means nothing.
Star Wars is broken and ain't no fixin' it.
 
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An actual retcon would never happen. Not a chance, but there's ways of sort-of retconning some of the aspects people disliked about TLJ. Basically, you can't just erase the entire thing...unfortunately, but J.J. Abrams can make it so Kylo Ren was lying about Rey's parentage, that Snoke has some secret ability unbeknownst to us that allowed him to somehow survive or perhaps that that wasn't even him, and that Luke somehow isn't dead. There's (albeit hockey) ways of correcting those issues. Other issues we're just stuck with. But as for a straight-up none of it happened, it was a vision or a dream type retcon...just no way that will happen.

I'm just imagining one of Poe, Finn, and Rose dropping acid and thinking they saw Leia flying through space. Whoa...did you just see that? Which by the way, always baffled me as to why no one MENTIONS it or HOW she did it. It just happens and everyone's reaction is just "Well...who's for Chinese?" Wha...
 
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Saw that yesterday. It's a good answer for a somewhat loaded question. Rey's parents were left open for interpretation and doesn't put the writers' backs against the walls for episode 9, so there's no reason to "retcon" it. Maybe Kylo was telling the truth,maybe he was lying because lies and deceit are his ways now. It wasn't like Luke Skywalker was telling her that her parents were "nobody".
 
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my guess? her "real" parents left her with "Adopted" parents for safe-keeping -- why?
because it rhymes with Luke's story in ANH.

these "Adopted" parents were "nobodies" -- why?
because it makes more sense than leaving her in the care of her ACTUAL family, under her ACTUAL name (like the situation in ANH, hiding the kid under his real name "luke skywalker").

(therefore: what Kylo said was true -- from a certain POV: her adopted "parents" WERE nobodies. and they DID abandon her on jakku).

these adopted "parents" sold her for drinking money, and fled Jakku ASAP-- why? because they're NOT invested in the fate of somebody-else's-kid (like Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru were). LOL
they got tired of waiting, and/or, they double-crossed her REAL parents as soon as they had the chance.

(and suddenly, leaving Luke in the care of his REAL family in ANH... actually makes a bit more sense :p LOL -- it proves "nobodies" can't be trusted). LOL
 
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the question becomes: who left her in the care of these "nobodies" on jakku -- aka: who left her in the care of these adopted "Parents"?
answer: who-ever is playing the role of "Alec Guinness" in this copycat trilogy LOL :p she was left on jakku by Luke Skywalker.

and: whose child IS she..? Han and Leia. they had twins -- Luke split them up and sent one child into hiding on jakku for safe-keeping.
(and for some reason, Han is NOT aware he even HAD two babies -- maybe Leia was unconscious when she gave birth and Han was out of the room -- or maybe Luke and Leia actually conspired to do this behind Han's back).

either way , Luke kept the second child hidden from her Real Father -- why? because it rhymes with ANH -- that's exactly what Alec Guinness did. LOL
indeed: the Jedi have a history of taking custody of "force sensitive" babies and brazenly deciding their fate -- we can chalk it up to Luke's Failure.

maybe he saw the future when the babies were born, and he freaked out over it, like he did in TLJ.
(maybe Luke split them up for Rey's own safety -- to keep her away from Kylo, like sodium and water).



either way: I think we're in for another "it's all true from a certain POV" talk from Old Luke, like we had from Old Ben.
(Rey's ADOPTED parents WERE "nobody" -- so what Kylo said was true -- from a certain POV) :p LOL
 
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If JJ wants to make anything up to me in apology for the last hot mess, include Wedge. Kylo might not have been lying about Rey, as i have suspected she is a clone.
 
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Rey's parentage/lineage is most least offensive part of TLJs problems. I dont understand why her being a nobody is a big deal.
 
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Rey's parentage/lineage is most least offensive part of TLJs problems. I dont understand why her being a nobody is a big deal.
I completely agree, it's not something that matters at all.
 
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Agree too. Rey random is perfectly fine.

It's the absolute least of the problems that the sequels exhibit.
 
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Rey's parentage/lineage is most least offensive part of TLJs problems. I dont understand why her being a nobody is a big deal.
The problem is not where she comes from, but the fact that "being sold for drinking money" does not fit the flashback in TFA, which is set up in a way that suggests she was left in Unkar Plutts "care" by someone flying away in a spaceship afterwards. Now, if the people in the spaceship were Rey's parents - does a little girl yield more drinking money than a ship? And where did they flew away to, if they are supposed to lie in a shallow grave on Jakku? And if the people in the ship are not her parents, then they would logically be whoever bought Rey from her parents (unless the story inserts more stations and becomes totally contrived). If so, what happened in between, why did they buy Rey in the first place, and why did they give her away again?

The problem is not in the story - the problem is that Johnson ignored all the setups and clues that Abrams created.

(Same with the Knights of Ren, who got completely sidelined, and Snoke, who comes out of nothing and goes into nothing, which may not be a continuity problem but certainly a storytelling issue.)
 
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Nothing Unkar Plutt does suggests that Rey was left in his care. He treats her like crap and sold her out to the First Order. I got more of the sense she was sold into slavery.
 
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The problem is not where she comes from, but the fact that "being sold for drinking money" does not fit the flashback in TFA, which is set up in a way that suggests she was left in Unkar Plutts "care" by someone flying away in a spaceship afterwards. Now, if the people in the spaceship were Rey's parents - does a little girl yield more drinking money than a ship? And where did they flew away to, if they are supposed to lie in a shallow grave on Jakku? And if the people in the ship are not her parents, then they would logically be whoever bought Rey from her parents (unless the story inserts more stations and becomes totally contrived). If so, what happened in between, why did they buy Rey in the first place, and why did they give her away again?

The problem is not in the story - the problem is that Johnson ignored all the setups and clues that Abrams created.
You're trying to assign reasonable and logical questioning to a story that has had no logical advances within it. It's been a series of random crap thrown at a wall so far. So, in that respect, anything goes and logic and continuity be damned.

(Same with the Knights of Ren, who got completely sidelined, and Snoke, who comes out of nothing and goes into nothing, which may not be a continuity problem but certainly a storytelling issue.)
Agree on the absolute waste that the Knights of Ren were. As far as I'm concerned they should have been the sole antagonists in this trilogy. Not the Empire 2.0, who are just an extremely limp copy of a superior enemy that appeared in the better movies. Into the bargain, they've been reduced to absolute buffoons, whose unfunny "comedy" renders them threatless and wholly reliant on the tactical stupidity of the protagonists.
 
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For many, Rey HAS to be a descendant of an established strong Force User, in order to justify herself being so strong in the Force without training.

Wasn't that Unkar's hand and voice in the flashback when Rey's supposed parents left? He might not care for her as a surrogate father, but he did keep her alive, probably taught her the scavenging business too. She mentions having worked on the Falcon while it was grounded, in Plutt's possession. I think he won't just let any scavenger on his prized ship unless he trusts them enough.
 
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I wish they could retcon Luke Skywalker throwing the lightsaber off the cliff.
 
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The problem is not where she comes from, but the fact that "being sold for drinking money" does not fit the flashback in TFA, which is set up in a way that suggests she was left in Unkar Plutts "care" by someone flying away in a spaceship afterwards. Now, if the people in the spaceship were Rey's parents - does a little girl yield more drinking money than a ship? And where did they flew away to, if they are supposed to lie in a shallow grave on Jakku? And if the people in the ship are not her parents, then they would logically be whoever bought Rey from her parents (unless the story inserts more stations and becomes totally contrived). If so, what happened in between, why did they buy Rey in the first place, and why did they give her away again?

The problem is not in the story - the problem is that Johnson ignored all the setups and clues that Abrams created.

(Same with the Knights of Ren, who got completely sidelined, and Snoke, who comes out of nothing and goes into nothing, which may not be a continuity problem but certainly a storytelling issue.)
What? Everything about that scene (learning what we did about Rey's parents in TLJ) line up with her being sold off for nothing. We see is a little girl crying while be being dragged away by a guy who trades her just enough food to live in exchange for old ship parts. What about the Rey/Unkaar scenes suggest a caretaker scenario?

I'm in no way defending TLJ. It was a piece of **** film that has done irreparable damage to the lore, myth, future and basically everything that has to do with Star Wars. Your argument, however, makes no sense.
 
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I wish they could retcon Luke Skywalker throwing the lightsaber off the cliff.
If they figure out a way to retcon that my attitude towards the ST would change immediately. That was THE single worst part of the entire movie. I'd forgive a whole lot if that scene didn't exist.
 
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What? Everything about that scene (learning what we did about Rey's parents in TLJ) line up with her being sold off for nothing. We see is a little girl crying while be being dragged away by a guy who trades her just enough food to live in exchange for old ship parts. What about the Rey/Unkaar scenes suggest a caretaker scenario?

I'm in no way defending TLJ. It was a piece of **** film that has done irreparable damage to the lore, myth, future and basically everything that has to do with Star Wars. Your argument, however, makes no sense.
I did put "care" in quote marks, right?

We do not know who the people in the spaceship are, or what the background even is. The argument is not that Unkar Plutt is such a nice guy and the friend of the family - but that a spaceship is worth a lot more than a little girl. And that the people inside used it to fly away. If we assume that they drunk themselves to death on Jakku (if they are buried there) - then why didn't they sell their ship? How much do you get for a little girl? A little girl that the new owner (presuming it's Unkar) doesn't even care for, nor could use for anything (really dark thoughts aside). Is Rey a slave? Doesn't look like it in TFA. Is the relationship between Unkar and Rey a nice one? No. But still, Rey hopes for the return of her family, so where are these "shallow graves"? Does Unkar know where the parents are buried? And if Kylo Ren tells the truth, then how the heck does he know? Is the Force now making him omniscient? (With all the new Force powers in TLJ, I wouldn't even be surprised, but it'd be a bad, bad move.)

But we don't know what the scene was even supposed to mean. What did Abrams want to express here?

Originally, I thought that it was something like this: Kylo Ren was supposed to kill his little sister / niece to join the ranks of Snoke. But he couldn't bring himself to do it (still some good left in him) so he took her away, faked her death, and abandoned her on Jakku in the hands of Unkar Plutt (whose connection to Kylo Ren, if there is any, is unknown). Thus, Rey is left to a fate only a little better than death, and Kylo Ren returns home, and Rey hopes for whatever Kylo told her beforehand. Yes, I am aware that it doesn't fit into the timeline (Bloodline suggests that Kylo fell to the dark side only a few years ago, definitely less than a decade, and Little Rey is younger), and it doesn't fit in with Snokes vast powers who would have recognized such a betrayal immediately. But it would have fit the tone of the scene at that time.

Anyway. The logic and the continuity are now a mess whatever happens in Episode 9, so it's a moot point.
 
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why are you assuming they bought or had a spaceship? I always assumed they hitched a ride with someone else. Slaves are at least worth 1 race winning Pod Racer.


Kylo knows this because he's been in her head she has seen the truth that she was hiding from herself. As a kid she wanted to believe that her parents would come back for her that they had a good reason to sell her off. Deep down she knows thats not true.


Did Anakin look like a slave? He and his mom had a house food and even a protocol droid. It seems slavery in Star Wars is different then our world. Aside from the bomb to keep him from running away you wouldn't know he was a slave.

Perhaps Unkar Plott didn't need a bomb since they were on a such a remote planet. Or maybe even Unkar was telling her that if she left her parents woudlnt' be back.

Or maybe over the years she bought her freedom from him.


Anyway here is a deleted scene it seems that Unkar was more then just say a boss he has some kind of ownership over her by the way he acts towards her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJLmdLRUPtE
 
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Frankly I hope she truly does come from nobodies. Never cared for the old expanded universe with it's 200 generations of skywalkers where the dark side takes over every other generation.
 
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^^ that all comes from the "force is a blood disease" nonsense that started with ROTJ.
 
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I agree on the Knights of Ren. They would have been a really cool group to focus on in this trilogy. It's too bad they weren't in TLJ because that would have been interesting.
 
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I agree on the Knights of Ren. They would have been a really cool group to focus on in this trilogy. It's too bad they weren't in TLJ because that would have been interesting.
Well, it looks like they might make an appearance in this one. But, who cares now. They'll just show up for a fight and get wiped out, instead of Phasma probably. :rolleyes:

Really, what should have happened was that Snoke was waiting in the wings for decades. Waiting for his moment to strike for power and the fall of the Sith. His opportunity comes about to influence Kylo Ren, who's at Luke's Jedi academy. Also at the Academy is Rey and they've both been getting trained to use their force powers and learn the ways of the Jedi for years. This explains that they are already powerful force users and eliminates a need for a training montage or set of sequences, or any instant Jedi silliness. Kylo and Rey are friends, but Kylo has been acting odd for some time. This is because he's being led astray by Snoke. Eventually their friendship turns to a reluctant animosity, like Ben-Hur and Masala.

In the meantime, the New Republic on Coruscant has become stagnant and corrupt. Leia is increasingly becoming detached from it and Han, who acts as her advisor and adjutant of sorts, is getting more and more disillusioned with the bureaucracy and red tape of the politics his wife has to endure. They are still together.

Snoke uses Kylo to seek out an ancient Sith temple, which houses some sort of destructive artefact which Snoke uses to destroy Coruscant, sending events into chaos and leaving a power vacuum for him to fill. War breaks out in the aftermath and this is the time that Leia gathers together what's left of the NR and forms her resistance against Snoke, Kylo and the Knights of Ren - who are a dark Jedi order, neither Jedi or Sith.

There's no need for the First Order in any way shape or form. There's no need for Luke's character assassination, or Han and Leia's break up. None of that needs to happen and none of it actually aids the story in any way.

The story could go further, too. Perhaps what's left of Luke's Jedi's team up with some Sith, and form an uneasy alliance to combat the Knights of Ren, who they both see as a detriment to the stability of the galaxy. have the Knights of Ren do really horrific stuff and make them a threat to be taken seriously. This prompts a Sith lord to contact Luke, because Snoke and his band of crazies are worse than the Empire ever were.

There's was lots of room to play with in the sequels. But instead Disney chose what is, possibly, the absolute worst course of action.
 
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Well, it looks like they might make an appearance in this one. But, who cares now. They'll just show up for a fight and get wiped out, instead of Phasma probably. :rolleyes:

Really, what should have happened was that Snoke was waiting in the wings for decades. Waiting for his moment to strike for power and the fall of the Sith. His opportunity comes about to influence Kylo Ren, who's at Luke's Jedi academy. Also at the Academy is Rey and they've both been getting trained to use their force powers and learn the ways of the Jedi for years. This explains that they are already powerful force users and eliminates a need for a training montage or set of sequences, or any instant Jedi silliness. Kylo and Rey are friends, but Kylo has been acting odd for some time. This is because he's being led astray by Snoke. Eventually their friendship turns to a reluctant animosity, like Ben-Hur and Masala.

In the meantime, the New Republic on Coruscant has become stagnant and corrupt. Leia is increasingly becoming detached from it and Han, who acts as her advisor and adjutant of sorts, is getting more and more disillusioned with the bureaucracy and red tape of the politics his wife has to endure. They are still together.

Snoke uses Kylo to seek out an ancient Sith temple, which houses some sort of destructive artefact which Snoke uses to destroy Coruscant, sending events into chaos and leaving a power vacuum for him to fill. War breaks out in the aftermath and this is the time that Leia gathers together what's left of the NR and forms her resistance against Snoke, Kylo and the Knights of Ren - who are a dark Jedi order, neither Jedi or Sith.

There's no need for the First Order in any way shape or form. There's no need for Luke's character assassination, or Han and Leia's break up. None of that needs to happen and none of it actually aids the story in any way.

The story could go further, too. Perhaps what's left of Luke's Jedi's team up with some Sith, and form an uneasy alliance to combat the Knights of Ren, who they both see as a detriment to the stability of the galaxy. have the Knights of Ren do really horrific stuff and make them a threat to be taken seriously. This prompts a Sith lord to contact Luke, because Snoke and his band of crazies are worse than the Empire ever were.

There's was lots of room to play with in the sequels. But instead Disney chose what is, possibly, the absolute worst course of action.
I like this idea a lot!!!!!!! I wish Disney had hired you for the ST.
 
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why are you assuming they bought or had a spaceship? I always assumed they hitched a ride with someone else.
Okay, I concede that you could explain away the scene if needed. It still wouldn't feel right (just imagining the awkward dialog between Rey's parents and that someone else with a spaceship: "Hey, could you take us along to Niima Outpost, we're going to sell our daughter?" "Sure, great, who needs kids these days!") and it would not explain why Jakku/Niima/Unkar of all things. But yes, you could construct a situation that fits the TLJ claim. Personally, I doubt it would ever sit well with me, but hey, I'm not the center of the universe.

Slaves are at least worth 1 race winning Pod Racer.
And a 9-year old can construct a podracer from leftover parts that his master is not missing. Okay, I think there was an EU story where Anakin finds part of the podracer in the desert. Or maybe Watto is really bad at keeping inventory. Anyway.

Or maybe over the years she bought her freedom from him.
If they keep going with the "sold to Unkar Plutt" idea, this is a likely scenario. She got freed, and now he's sour about that and treats her like dirt (quarter portion, really?).

We don't really know how this slavery stuff works in the GFFA, or why slaves are even economically viable if you can just buy droids, so there is still a lot handwaving involved in the whole slaving idea.


Anyway here is a deleted scene it seems that Unkar was more then just say a boss he has some kind of ownership over her by the way he acts towards her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJLmdLRUPtE
Maybe... but then, he's also mad that she stole the Falcon and destroyed half of Niima Outpost in the process, or maybe he's blaming her for the FO attack, or perhaps he's more gangster than boss...

We'll probably never know how the original plot was supposed to be playing out, unless Abrams will reveal it to us in some nonfiction book in the coming years. Possibly, we'll have to be content with the twists Johnson included in the story (as Abrams will certainly not bother to unravel all of them in Ep9), and at this point any new revelation on Rey's ancestry would feel just as contrived as the current situation.

Dunno - to me, the whole sequels feel badly thought-out, badly constructed, with bad worldbuilding, bad understanding of the SW mythology, and bad continuity. And I have little hope that Ep9 will turn it around.
 
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I like this idea a lot!!!!!!! I wish Disney had hired you for the ST.
Ah, you're too kind Deutschland.

Unfortunately, at the interview for Disney, Bob and Kathy told me to get lost. Only, they weren't so polite about it. :grin:
 
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Ah, you're too kind Deutschland.

Unfortunately, at the interview for Disney, Bob and Kathy told me to get lost. Only, they weren't so polite about it. :grin:
I'll bet they weren't. I wonder if the next interviewee was JJ then. You warmed up the crowd and he took all the accolades............:eek:
I
 
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I agree on the Knights of Ren. They would have been a really cool group to focus on in this trilogy. It's too bad they weren't in TLJ because that would have been interesting.
If they were in TLJ, they probably all would have tumbled out of a clown car and rolled off a cliff.
 
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i think rey's parents are Cornelius Evazan and max rebo

it makes about as much sense as EP8
 
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I think if they are really going to cut him loose, they'll wait until after TROS has had its run. If they tell us now that he's out, they'll make the RJ SW fans angry and Disney is afraid they'll boycott TROS. I'm still not convinced Disney really wants to do a trilogy with a guy who angered at least half of the SW core fans. Also, KK might be out before the next films get going. I think Disney does not want to make any moves until after TROS is finished in theaters. There were so many controversies and bad press about the films over the years that they don't want to add any fuel to the speculation fire.
 
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