The Vintage Collection - General Toy Discussion Thread

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[SIGH] I suppose the Cave of Evil version of Yoda is good enough, though I'll probably pass on getting another one. I'm much more worried about—well, see above. I enjoy some of these slightly upgraded core characters we've been getting, but when they can sell a $500 sail barge (which I passed on mainly due to not having room for it) we should be able to get some of the figures we obviously need. But, you know, boo-hoo!
 
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That ESB Yoda had BETTER be an all new sculpt - I'm sick of the lack of effort on one of the most important characters of the entire trilogy, let alone one that is smaller than a freaking Ewok. I think Hasbro can afford to go all out on a proper and definitive version, considering he costs like a third of a normal figure. Pretty ridiculous it's taken this long, honestly. Almost as bad as the Emperor...

Welcome to the new paradigm. Hasbro has displayed a pattern of reissuing figures that are in the exclusive multipacks of the past few years. The new business structure they're adhering to requires them to make the most of existing tools in an effort to get value from the development of new figures. If you checked out the most recent episode of the SWTVC podcast (LINK - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...ah-lynn-reynolds/id1551587839?i=1000538407047 ), you would find a direct quote that it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop a new figure. That cost MUST be recouped in order for the line to be financially viable for Hasbro.

And then there's the track record which is plain as day. Hasbro reissued Dr Aphra on a basic TVC card, and there was discussion about releasing the droids individually at some point. On that point it's been surprising that it did not happen. Hasbro has also released all three versions of Luke Skywalker from the Jedi Destiny 3-pack. And most recently we now have two individually carded versions of the ARC Troopers from the convention exclusive ARC Trooper 3-pack. I think it's perfectly within the realm of possibility (based on past performance) that the new Yoda is going to be the same figure that was in the Cave of Evil 3-pack. And with that in mind I also suspect that we might get single packed versions of Luke and Vader from that 3-pack on individual TVC cards in the next couple of years.
 
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If each figure requires "hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop", how on Earth would they make any profit? I tend to believe that figure is exaggerated, or the company itself must be horribly wasteful when it comes to product development resources. I recall a customizer / bootlegger discussing the steel molds used to produce a 5 POA figure, and I believe he said they were under $5k each, lol. Certainly a TVC figure is far more complex with all the articulation points, and produced in much higher volume, but something doesn't add up with such a big investment for a 3.75 piece of plastic. If TVC or TBS has such tight profit margins, why wouldn't they cancel them and go 5 POA across the board, it would be like printing money, haha. Retro is the perfect example, all Hasbro had to do was give us dull Kenner era sculpts, and people would have apparently been eating up 5 POA from the start... That aside, the only thing that makes sense for Hasbro (if this investment amount is true), is to increase the amount of repacks, not reduce them. So maybe at this point, any character with a decent sculpt, like Yoda, should be expected for a repack, as a brand new sculpt would be wasteful.
 
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If each figure requires "hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop", how on Earth would they make any profit? I tend to believe that figure is exaggerated, or the company itself must be horribly wasteful when it comes to product development resources. I recall a customizer / bootlegger discussing the steel molds used to produce a 5 POA figure, and I believe he said they were under $5k each, lol. Certainly a TVC figure is far more complex with all the articulation points, and produced in much higher volume, but something doesn't add up with such a big investment for a 3.75 piece of plastic. If TVC or TBS has such tight profit margins, why wouldn't they cancel them and go 5 POA across the board, it would be like printing money, haha. Retro is the perfect example, all Hasbro had to do was give us dull Kenner era sculpts, and people would have apparently been eating up 5 POA from the start... That aside, the only thing that makes sense for Hasbro (if this investment amount is true), is to increase the amount of repacks, not reduce them. So maybe at this point, any character with a decent sculpt, like Yoda, should be expected for a repack, as a brand new sculpt would be wasteful.
agreed, not to mention a new Yoda could be used so many different times to "recoup" their profits - a figure like Yoda demands proper accessories and a redo. They should simply do the Boss Fight version that was planned in 2014 that Hasbro ditched.
 
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Welcome to the new paradigm. Hasbro has displayed a pattern of reissuing figures that are in the exclusive multipacks of the past few years. The new business structure they're adhering to requires them to make the most of existing tools in an effort to get value from the development of new figures. If you checked out the most recent episode of the SWTVC podcast (LINK - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...ah-lynn-reynolds/id1551587839?i=1000538407047 ), you would find a direct quote that it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop a new figure. That cost MUST be recouped in order for the line to be financially viable for Hasbro.

And then there's the track record which is plain as day. Hasbro reissued Dr Aphra on a basic TVC card, and there was discussion about releasing the droids individually at some point. On that point it's been surprising that it did not happen. Hasbro has also released all three versions of Luke Skywalker from the Jedi Destiny 3-pack. And most recently we now have two individually carded versions of the ARC Troopers from the convention exclusive ARC Trooper 3-pack. I think it's perfectly within the realm of possibility (based on past performance) that the new Yoda is going to be the same figure that was in the Cave of Evil 3-pack. And with that in mind I also suspect that we might get single packed versions of Luke and Vader from that 3-pack on individual TVC cards in the next couple of years.

I wouldn't expect anything different for the newer figures and sculpts - it totally makes sense. But all the repacks you compared aren't equivalent to that Cave of Evil 3 pack. Those figures were twice repacked figures that ALL came from the Black Series 3.75" before. The Luke pack had all new figures (even if some were partially kit bashed) and certainly the Aphra set was ALL NEW. The decade old Yoda sucked then and it sucks now, it was a poor effort back then and collectors were groaning then too. He was supposed to be the Boss Fight release and they bailed and made him 5POA essentially. They also inexplicably insisted on painting Yoda a vibrant dark green instead instead of of the screen obvious pale green - you know, it's not like they had 40 years to figure this simple fact out or anything.
 
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I’m all for smart repacks and repaints of sought after figures. The Cave of Evil Yoda is a good candidate, especially if they get the colors right!
 
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I wouldn't expect anything different for the newer figures and sculpts - it totally makes sense. But all the repacks you compared aren't equivalent to that Cave of Evil 3 pack. Those figures were twice repacked figures that ALL came from the Black Series 3.75" before. The Luke pack had all new figures (even if some were partially kit bashed) and certainly the Aphra set was ALL NEW. The decade old Yoda sucked then and it sucks now, it was a poor effort back then and collectors were groaning then too. He was supposed to be the Boss Fight release and they bailed and made him 5POA essentially. They also inexplicably insisted on painting Yoda a vibrant dark green instead instead of of the screen obvious pale green - you know, it's not like they had 40 years to figure this simple fact out or anything.
What is the Boss Fight Yoda that’s been mentioned a few times?
 
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While that certainly would have been a neat Yoda to get I struggle to see why so much SA is needed for him when he doesn't do much at all? Especially considering almost no one likes that he can do what he does in AOTC, so heavy articulation seems unwarranted. I feel the Cave of Evil figure is just fine for a ESB version for a character barely moves. Sure it would be nice to have BH elbows and knees but I don't think it's a must have on this version especially considering the SG's cover it all up.

I don't think we'll see an all new Yoda sculpt for quite some time due to the costs in an ever dwindling line but I wouldn't mind them downsizing the Yoda from TBS Jedi Training 2-pk for TVC eventually, and basically repeating what the did so that we get two head sculpts and the satchel. That would basically makes up for him being so tiny and justify the $14 price.

I acknowledge that if they did make an all new Yoda they could feasibly get plenty of reuse out of it for the various movie releases but does Hasbro feel that way this late stage of the game, and does the line support multiple release of this OT character in today's new media era? It's quite possible being as Lobot and Lando recent got brand new figures with Bib on the way, yet both Lando and Lobot do utilize reuse in the legs so it's not like they are 100% new. This makes me think that a new Yoda would have to be some kind of hybrid of new and old as it seems that most of the "new molds" are given to "all new characters" such as TCW Ahsoka and Maul, Greef, Kuiil etc. Only in a few instances are OT characters getting all new molds.
 
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While that certainly would have been a neat Yoda to get I struggle to see why so much SA is needed for him when he doesn't do much at all? Especially considering almost no one likes that he can do what he does in AOTC, so heavy articulation seems unwarranted. I feel the Cave of Evil figure is just fine for a ESB version for a character barely moves. Sure it would be nice to have BH elbows and knees but I don't think it's a must have on this version especially considering the SG's cover it all up.

I don't think we'll see an all new Yoda sculpt for quite some time due to the costs in an ever dwindling line but I wouldn't mind them downsizing the Yoda from TBS Jedi Training 2-pk for TVC eventually, and basically repeating what the did so that we get two head sculpts and the satchel. That would basically makes up for him being so tiny and justify the $14 price.

I acknowledge that if they did make an all new Yoda they could feasibly get plenty of reuse out of it for the various movie releases but does Hasbro feel that way this late stage of the game, and does the line support multiple release of this OT character in today's new media era? It's quite possible being as Lobot and Lando recent got brand new figures with Bib on the way, yet both Lando and Lobot do utilize reuse in the legs so it's not like they are 100% new. This makes me think that a new Yoda would have to be some kind of hybrid of new and old as it seems that most of the "new molds" are given to "all new characters" such as TCW Ahsoka and Maul, Greef, Kuiil etc. Only in a few instances are OT characters getting all new molds.

That's what I mean - the Black Series Yoda benefitted from never having one before it, though they did scale down his proportions on the ESB release. Hasbro went all out on him, why not in TVC? We got umpteen SA Yodas from the PT and constant rereleases and repacks, and he does move in ESB, do we not forget he walks and needs to hold a cane properly, which wouldn't be a stiff/straight arm? He doesn't need ankles, just better articulation than that Cave Of Evil version. He's one of the most important characters in the entire trilogy, so I can't quite figure why they haven't done him right yet.
I have the Yoda from that set and I can't fathom why you guys are calling for a new sculpt. Talk about unrealistic expectations.

I can't fathom how some are satisfied with an inferior sculpt - talk about low expectations. I'll give that the head was vastly improved, but they still got his color wrong and for my money, the best ESB Yoda is still the vintage Kenner version. The features are obviously softer being such an old school sculpt, but they got so very much right about it at the time. Hasbro needs to bottle that up, SA it a bit and be done with it once and for all.
 
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I’ll take any of those! In fact, I’ll take essentially anything new. In fact, I’ll take essentially anything at all…
 
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Probably right, they'll likely just show what's already been shown or previewed/hinted at and don't expect anything unknown to be revealed. At least we should finally see the Cantina so we can get all this speculation out of the way. I certainly wouldn't mid a surprise or two but with the current shipping issues they may not want to show something too far in advance.

He's one of the most important characters in the entire trilogy, so I can't quite figure why they haven't done him right yet
I think what you seem to be forgetting is that Hasbro has a very limited budget for this line, and have for quite some time now, so things like this that seemed a no brainer simply aren't anymore. We're probably lucky that they don't have previous molds to use for new media characters or we'd have a lot more repacks. lol

I'll give that the head was vastly improved, but they still got his color wrong and for my money, the best ESB Yoda is still the vintage Kenner version. The features are obviously softer being such an old school sculpt, but they got so very much right about it at the time.
I'll never get/understand this statement that's made by several around here, because Kenner Yoda looks nothing like the character the same way Luke and Han didn't back then. Which would also mean the best Luke figure is the old ROTJ one form Kenner. If that's the case then shouldn't you be collecting Retro only so that all the figures can mimic that style?

I'll admit that the CoE color is too light, but IMO it's the best Yoda head sculpt to date by Hasbro. So if the reissue is corrected in that sense it will be just fine with me same as if they reissued Tarkin with correct coloring and no SG's lower tunic.
 
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Last year's Hascon Panel Presentation revealed the following TVC figures:

Queen Amidala (repack)
Anakin Skywalker in Peasant Disguise (repack)
Battle Droid (repack)
TIE Fighter Pilot (repack)
Captain Rex (repack)

Incinerator Stormtrooper (repaint)

If we see just one NEW reveal, it'll be a better showing!

Of course, last year was the BEAUTIFUL reveal of the Haslab Razor Crest as well, and I've got no interest in the 6" Rancor.


As for Yoda, I know not everyone will agree with me, but the Cave of Evil pack wasn't available at retail in the UK, so I'm happy with that version being repacked (hopefully less Kermit the Frog green though) on a Vintage Card.

I'd much rather see tooling budget go on never before done characters, not a redo of a character that doesn't need THAT much articulation.
 
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That's a bit backward as super-articulated 3.75" SW figure existed before TBS. I'd just assume Hasbro stopped up-sizing TVC figures as TBS and continue to keep the 5 POA dollar store-looking stuff that warmed shelves far away.

Hence Hasbro's ongoing struggle. Making everyone happy.
It is backwards, but accurate. The TBS versions almost always come out before TVC for new properties with several never making it to 3.75.
 

bac

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I don't see much TVC showing up at PulseCon. The stage is set for a big TBS blowout as their last stream was all repaints and this is the big stage for their big line. There's more already announced/set for the coming months in TVC than TBS, and the list of rumored TBS figures + their previous pipelines yet-to-be-revealed/slotted is extensive.

What I am looking forward to that's already known:

Nevarro Cantina reveal
Frigin D'an reveal
Death Watch reveal
Mythrol card art

Possibilities based on what we know:

Another solid pipeline that dips into the May 2022 wave.
The second Pulse Troop builder pack.
Second Target wave of three.

What I want: BLURRG, but there has been zero leak evidence so that's doubtful.
 
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I’ll take any of those! In fact, I’ll take essentially anything new. In fact, I’ll take essentially anything at all…

Yeah well your not getting any. What you are getting on Friday is a Surprise appearance by Weezer (Whatever that is) and a Nerf Panel and few other panels you have zero interest in. So sit down and enjoy it. I do have it on good authority you will be getting some black series reissue's and some VC reissue's you don't need or want at all with new face tech that doesn't really look that much better.


3nyial.jpg
 
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There are no BOBF characters in May 2022 wave.

Bo-Katan wave (2022 wave 1) will be likely Dec/Jan

Hmmm....that's too bad, but.............Boba and Fennec were in Mando Season 2, so is there still a possibility of those two coming on Mando cards then???;)
 
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Yeah well your not getting any. What you are getting on Friday is a Surprise appearance by Weezer (Whatever that is) and a Nerf Panel and few other panels you have zero interest in. So sit down and enjoy it. I do have it on good authority you will be getting some black series reissue's and some VC reissue's you don't need or want at all with new face tech that doesn't really look that much better.
Weezer is (or was) a pretty good rock band that may be a bit before your time—I'm guessing you are not an old fogey of 45, like me.

D
 
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Weezer is (or was) a pretty good rock band that may be a bit before your time—I'm guessing you are not an old fogey of 45, like me.

D

Maybe he’s an older fogey.

Even though everything after the green album is pretty whatever, in my opinion, they still put out Blue Album and Pinkerton. They should be considered great forever just for that.
 
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Probably right, they'll likely just show what's already been shown or previewed/hinted at and don't expect anything unknown to be revealed. At least we should finally see the Cantina so we can get all this speculation out of the way. I certainly wouldn't mid a surprise or two but with the current shipping issues they may not want to show something too far in advance.


I think what you seem to be forgetting is that Hasbro has a very limited budget for this line, and have for quite some time now, so things like this that seemed a no brainer simply aren't anymore. We're probably lucky that they don't have previous molds to use for new media characters or we'd have a lot more repacks. lol


I'll never get/understand this statement that's made by several around here, because Kenner Yoda looks nothing like the character the same way Luke and Han didn't back then. Which would also mean the best Luke figure is the old ROTJ one form Kenner. If that's the case then shouldn't you be collecting Retro only so that all the figures can mimic that style?

I'll admit that the CoE color is too light, but IMO it's the best Yoda head sculpt to date by Hasbro. So if the reissue is corrected in that sense it will be just fine with me same as if they reissued Tarkin with correct coloring and no SG's lower tunic.

The fact of the matter is, TVC is a COLLECTOR LINE with a COLLECTOR PRICE TAG. Hasbro has no excuse, regardless of what they previously released (for a figure as important as Yoda). They are the ones setting the budget - who's to say that they aren't being overly stingy and willingly so? I can practically guarantee they are - I believe that collectors should demand the most out of Hasbro and the most out of their dollar. I certainly voted with my dollar on not buying that stupid regurgitated barrel chest ROTJ Han, even with that superior new coat. He certainly is NOT worth $14. I think Hasbro has unfortunately created a group of collectors I'd like to call "settlers". Hasbro cultivates this persona of the line like we should feel lucky it's still around, lucky we are getting any new sculpts at all and fortunate that Hasbro is making them for the prices they are. The settlers just buy into that rhetoric and are fine with "good enough", instead of demanding the kind of quality that a 14 dollar 4" action figure line should have. Certainly, some figures are just a step away - point noted on the Tarkin. I still love him as is, but the plastic tunic would look better for sure. The difference is, he was tooled properly from the start otherwise. Yoda never was.

And I find it hard to believe that anyone on as nerdy a forum as Rebelscum has never heard of Weezer!? They are nerd rock, personified. I'm a guitar player and vocalist myself - we covered them since I strapped on a Stratocaster back in 1996 (man that sounds old). The Blue Album is easily one of the top 10 albums to come out of the 90s with Ric Ocasek's pristine and thoughtful production and monster guitar tones. =w=
 
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I don't know if its a matter of settling, because many that accept that Hasbro is going to repack an old sculpt, aren't necessarily going to buy it. I know I certainly don't buy everything - if its a total dud or something I don't like, I skip it. In many of these cases, its probably the MOMC or new collectors that might actually want these rehashed releases. I personally think anything in TVC, which they describe as a premium line, should be of high quality. A previous sculpt, that was sold for around half the MSRP of TVC would not qualify. I don't simply mean articulation points, but accessories as well. I fondly remember when good accessories were a given in 3.75 assortments - that's no longer the case with TVC 2.0 - once in awhile they'll offer a premium assortment of extras, but that's a rare occurrence.

I think "good enough" applies to many characters from previous lines though, because I am firmly in the camp that TVC shouldn't revisit everything - its a waste of slots and plastic. Most of the figures that already exist should be hunted down by the few that missed them, Hasbro should not be repacking hundreds of potential figures simply to catch up a small portion of new collectors or carded sycophants that tell Hasbro this is the best line ever and they can repack anything because they will buy it. The "put anything on a TVC card and we'll buy it" mantra (from another site) nearly brought the revival of this line to its knees with the first wave. I think Hasbro has been making smarter choices, but some repacks are very questionable even at this stage.
 
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I don't know if its a matter of settling, because many that accept that Hasbro is going to repack an old sculpt, aren't necessarily going to buy it. I know I certainly don't buy everything - if its a total dud or something I don't like, I skip it. In many of these cases, its probably the MOMC or new collectors that might actually want these rehashed releases. I personally think anything in TVC, which they describe as a premium line, should be of high quality. A previous sculpt, that was sold for around half the MSRP of TVC would not qualify. I don't simply mean articulation points, but accessories as well. I fondly remember when good accessories were a given in 3.75 assortments - that's no longer the case with TVC 2.0 - once in awhile they'll offer a premium assortment of extras, but that's a rare occurrence.

I think "good enough" applies to many characters from previous lines though, because I am firmly in the camp that TVC shouldn't revisit everything - its a waste of slots and plastic. Most of the figures that already exist should be hunted down by the few that missed them, Hasbro should not be repacking hundreds of potential figures simply to catch up a small portion of new collectors or carded sycophants that tell Hasbro this is the best line ever and they can repack anything because they will buy it. The "put anything on a TVC card and we'll buy it" mantra (from another site) nearly brought the revival of this line to its knees with the first wave. I think Hasbro has been making smarter choices, but some repacks are very questionable even at this stage.

The irony is that site now denies that mantra was ever a thing.

Even looking at TBS, it's repack and re-use city to an extent. So seeing how both major lines are affected by it, I have to give Hasbro the benefit of the doubt that it's not entirely just trying to save a buck. There are a lot of outside influences (covid, disney) that I bet are strangling budgets.

And with Star Wars technically second to Marvel while still holding the most expensive licensing fees, the brand is backed into a BAD corner
 
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And I find it hard to believe that anyone on as nerdy a forum as Rebelscum has never heard of Weezer!? They are nerd rock, personified. I'm a guitar player and vocalist myself - we covered them since I strapped on a Stratocaster back in 1996 (man that sounds old). The Blue Album is easily one of the top 10 albums to come out of the 90s with Ric Ocasek's pristine and thoughtful production and monster guitar tones. =w=
I somehow had no clue that Ocasek was involved. Thank you.

D
 
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We're way off topic (sorry), but I think it's fun (not sorry). I'd say that Weezer was at least punk-influenced. If I recall correctly, Rivers Cuomo used to keep notebooks about Nirvana's music as a guide to writing his own, and that was definitely what I think we called "post-punk" though at the time we tended to use the vague term "alternative."

I'm also surprised to not see more love for Pinkerton. I think it's great, but its poor reception damaged the band for a while. (The Green Album was fine, but I feel that they recovered their swagger with the Red Album.)

D
 
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