The Vintage Collection - General Toy Discussion Thread

Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
37,170
Reaction score
5,209
Location
Oregon
Since it's juts on the helmet it seems they could also do that on just about nay figure. As for the figure itself, it makes no sense since Joes were never 5POA to begin with. All I know is that I'll be happy when this whole over priced Retro trend finally dies down.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
7,911
Reaction score
952
Location
Maine
Look sir, vac metal! Yeah, no joints involved. But still.


UGH. I don't know how the people at Super7 can sleep at night, knowing they put out crap figures with 5POA for $18.00. I mean we all know Hasbro is over priced at $14, but at least those are fully articulated.
 

bac

Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Messages
4,627
Reaction score
3,667
You have to imagine Super7's quantities pale in comparison to what Hasbro puts out, so they're paying more per unit to produce. They're also using thicker cards and commissioning artwork for a lot of those cards.

Not my cup of tea as I'm drawn to modern figures on retro cards/packaging, but them being a smaller independent toy maker makes me not question their pricing as much.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
9,497
Reaction score
2,172
well i guess we need to brace ourselves...wm is due a fan event later this week
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
464
Reaction score
570
Location
Los Angeles
Yay! More figures to arrive smashed in the mail! Good thing I’m an opener.

Hoping for some intelligent repaints/ repacks/ retools of sought after figures. Maybe Malakili, Giran, Rebel Commando, Nien Nunb, etc.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
2,566
Reaction score
3,344
Location
Near the greatest snow on Earth. (SLC, UT)
I think the only TVC going up (that have been revealed) for WM's Collector Con, are the four Carbonized figures that were already slated for 10/7. I think there was a rumor of another wave of 50th figures, but I'd be surprised to see anything that hasn't already been officially revealed. It's possible TBS may see some previous figures that were sold out go back up, but I don't think there's anything new there either.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
7,911
Reaction score
952
Location
Maine
I think the only TVC going up (that have been revealed) for WM's Collector Con, are the four Carbonized figures that were already slated for 10/7. I think there was a rumor of another wave of 50th figures, but I'd be surprised to see anything that hasn't already been officially revealed. It's possible TBS may see some previous figures that were sold out go back up, but I don't think there's anything new there either.
I missed preorders for the Clone Wars wave, so hopefully I can get a few of those if they open orders again.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
2,373
Reaction score
6,095
What exactly is the point of these carbonized figures? Why not just re-release them normally?

Trying to, and successfully, cashing in on the pop! collector mindset with shiny chase colors of existing items.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,857
Reaction score
1,185
Location
Philadelphia
Trying to, and successfully, cashing in on the pop! collector mindset with shiny chase colors of existing items.
I guess. But I feel like they would be just as well--if not better--received if they were just regular re-releases.

I mean, how many people are buying these BECAUSE they're carbonized?
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
2,023
Location
SC
I think outside of Jedi/sith, and the occasional SA clone, you can keep the ball joint hips, torsos, and thigh swivels.

I would be perfectly fine with articulation from 07-12, with the face sculps of today.
I've seen a lot of people saying this. Instead of SA.... let's go for NA (necessary articulation). How many people are really using that torso articulation? I don't think it hurts most figures, but I feel you can really notice it on ones that have solid colors and flat surfaces, like Lando and Lobot coming out. The articulation is fine with me, but we're told it ups cost so let's be smart about it and not worry about getting Lando into Sniper poses.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
2,023
Location
SC
Likely not gonna happen, Farmboy Luke will have the same obvious torso joint that Lando has. Unless it's hidden by SG's! lol
I think the frustrating part is that they have shown that it can be done in a less obtrusive way, they simply choose not to for whatever reasons.

TBH everything they have done since 2014/16 has been an impediment to customizing so that you can no longer just swap out parts to create different variations such as torso from fig A, with pelvis from fig b, and legs from fig c that you could do with every figure from 05-14ish. Now you absolutely can't do that, the best you can do is swap arms, legs and the head, because of the split torso you can no longer swap them out or you end up with a horror show. Could you imagine Greef's upper torso combined with another's lower part, or Geef's lower part with any other upper? And that's if you can even "pop" them apart without totally damaging either half of the figure.

And yes, I've heard it before from a few that they don't customize so it's irrelevant. And that Hasbro shouldn't cater to customizers anyways. And that's fine if that's their stance, but guess what? Once they pulled this BS with Joes making it harder to pop the torso I stopped buying them to sue for fodder! And the same thing basically happened with Star Wars ever since this new articulation style started, I used to buy several of each figure for fodder now I barely buy one extra unless it's one of those older repacks that I can use. Simply because it's way too limiting having to work around the torso issue.

If they fix that one glaring issue it would be a major plus, I can deal with the other over complicated joints like the ankles as they're not quite as offensive. They do need to tighten up those hinge looking joints on elbows and knees though as they're starting to look very noticeable and gapping.
One of my biggest peeves is that you can't swap heads even on figures where it really should be pretty simple. Why not universalize the head ball joint for most anyway? I don't expect catering to customizers but why make it more difficult intentionally?
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
2,540
Reaction score
1,365
Location
Cobra Island
What exactly is the point of these carbonized figures? Why not just re-release them normally?
I believe its a way of contractually putting out X number of "new" product without actually creating a new product. Its better tolerated than the gold figures, which were nothing more than trying to fill orders without product.
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
2,540
Reaction score
1,365
Location
Cobra Island
One of my biggest peeves is that you can't swap heads even on figures where it really should be pretty simple. Why not universalize the head ball joint for most anyway? I don't expect catering to customizers but why make it more difficult intentionally?
In a converation with a former employee, (10+ years ago) they admitted that it was a frustration (on the GI Joe brand.) It was part china factory shanagance, (costs X to change something & stops becoming cost effective.) & part legacy from Star Wars that adjusted size based on alien type.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
464
Reaction score
570
Location
Los Angeles
The Carbonized figures would be more appealing if they were more stylized, like some of the Black Series releases. Remember that blue Vader and that silver Stormtrooper? I *almost* bought those.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
2,023
Location
SC
In a converation with a former employee, (10+ years ago) they admitted that it was a frustration (on the GI Joe brand.) It was part china factory shanagance, (costs X to change something & stops becoming cost effective.) & part legacy from Star Wars that adjusted size based on alien type.
I'm not in the industry, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I assumed Hasbro made molds of sculpts and China manufactured the figures. In that scenario, how would China have any say in the size of the ball joint... and wouldn't one or two sizes be most cost effective? We have dozens if you include the ball and neck length together. *yes I know different size heads, necks for aliens etc.
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
2,540
Reaction score
1,365
Location
Cobra Island
I'm not in the industry, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I assumed Hasbro made molds of sculpts and China manufactured the figures. In that scenario, how would China have any say in the size of the ball joint... and wouldn't one or two sizes be most cost effective? We have dozens if you include the ball and neck length together. *yes I know different size heads, necks for aliens etc.
My understanding, & I admit that I may be wrong. (although a lot of this is based experience I have in other industries that deal with manufacturing.)

Hasbro specs the design, The actual molds are made in China, samples are sent back to Hasbro, to approve or make X number of changes. Some changes cost a lot to make others not so much. But after round X additional costs get incurred, & in this case Hasbro still needs to hit its price point.

In the case of the ball joint factory 1 makes size size 1, factory 2 makes size 2 The factories don't talk to each other or in some cases purposely switch sizes to induce change control costs.

Its like dealing with a bad contractor who is trying to get the most out of their client. Its probably one of many reasons production may/has move to other countries, but that's a subject that best left for another time.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
12,875
Reaction score
2,679
This is actually something a Hasbro rep commented about many years ago (universal neck peg / sockets) - while Hasbro actually sculpts the figure and designs the articulation, its often altered in the manufacturing process. The structural integrity of a joint is different in a digital rendering compared to a prototype, so sometimes they're changed. Tooling a mold also brings about updates that become essential to the ease of that process. Likewise, a slight change made on their end isn't something Hasbro is going to worry about, because changing it again will cost time and money. I customize as well occasionally, and I know, as we all should - Hasbro isn't thinking about a niche group of collectors when designing figures.

As for necessary articulation, I think many agree that it varies based on character, that's why Hasbro gets away with repacking so many old sculpts. I'm honestly surprised there isn't more of an uproar with ever growing pricepoints. I'm sure some feel ripped off after buying a 10 POA Jawa, especially in what Hasbro describes as a premium line. As someone mentioned earlier, I prefer the more universal articulation range from Legacy, as those were more sturdy figures, but I know some don't agree. If only Hasbro was bold enough to make a compromise, perhaps the pricepoint would level out as well.
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
37,170
Reaction score
5,209
Location
Oregon
Regardless of all the other issues it seems to me that part of cost saving in manufacturing is the same size of certain parts, thus the neck barbell,
Granted you're not going to see a universal elbow or shoulder due to the look and size of the figure/character, but something as simple as the new neck joint should be. I also can understand it not being so on previous neck/ball joint that were attached to said torso, but again the separate barbell piece is very different and yet it seems that no two are alike. lol
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
542
Location
hoth
Yak face showed the new coded master list in September. How long does this normally take to be leaked or confirmed
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
9,497
Reaction score
2,172
well i guess we need to brace ourselves...wm is due a fan event later this week
wm slipped up and for a breif time last night, and listed thier new carbonized wave as in stock. I got an order in for the mando carded shoretrooper and already received shipping notice, and my friend got ship notice for the 3 others and likely the shoertroop as well since i did.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
433
Reaction score
644
Location
Space
I just hope that when Hasbro finally gets around to re-doing ANH Leia and Farmboy Luke, they intelligently place the torso articulation right above the belt.

Those are two figures that really need to be perfect for a complete collection. I don’t want them tarnished with ridiculous torso cuts or puffy soft goods.

Hasbro’s just going to sell the Original Trilogy Collection Leia and existing Legacy Farmboy Luke with lipstick-on-a-pig photoreal treatments. I’m not expecting anything good from them, considering pretty much every 50th “Complete the 96” figures have been lame repacks.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,335
Reaction score
160
Location
Temescal Valley, CA
Hasbro’s just going to sell the Original Trilogy Collection Leia and existing Legacy Farmboy Luke with lipstick-on-a-pig photoreal treatments. I’m not expecting anything good from them, considering pretty much every 50th “Complete the 96” figures have been lame repacks.
But Lando was a complete redesign. So hopefully Luke and Leia would be too.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
433
Reaction score
644
Location
Space
But Lando was a complete redesign. So hopefully Luke and Leia would be too.
Eh, I could see them being considered just “modern” enough by the Hasbro Star Wars peanut gallery and rereleased fairly unaltered. It’s definitely within the realm of possibility, unfortunately.

I’d love a brand new, super articulated ANH Leia with her pistol, plans for Artoo, a removable, separate plastic hood piece, and a good likeness to Carrie. I’m not getting my hopes up.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
6,433
Reaction score
7,277
It’s true that the Lando is an all-new sculpt. But even Hasbro knows that the 2006 VTSC Lando is just too outdated to use. It’s like the Revan thing. So they had to update him. Luke and Leia also seem too old to me—but as you say, Hasbro might juuuuuuust be able to stretch them out and make them work. They did it with Endor Han. 🙄
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
671
Reaction score
487
Location
Central FL
This is actually something a Hasbro rep commented about many years ago (universal neck peg / sockets) - while Hasbro actually sculpts the figure and designs the articulation, its often altered in the manufacturing process.

"I am altering the articulation -- pray I do not alter it any further!"

sw-altering-the-deal-400.png


It seems absurd that they can't create a standard for some things, when they could back in the 80s with the GI Joe line (or today with MLs). That was part of the fun of the old Joes, that they could be easily taken apart and put together to make new characters. And Hasbro did their own kitbashes (Starduster, Super Trooper, etc).

It makes sense to have a "library" of parts that can be switched around to make new toys. Not just for customizers but for the company itself. Hasbro has a pretty good sized "library" for their Marvel Legends. They create body "bucks" to use for dozens or more figures. I just don't buy into what we've been told in the past concerning the SW figure parts.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
6,433
Reaction score
7,277
Star Wars continues to emerge from (and descend into) a toxic well of festering social disease, rife with rumor and recrimination; every part of it seems in some oblique way obscured from normal procedure. From its content to its products, the whole thing just sidles around, brushing by. It seems to occupy the weird crannies of standard business. I’ll never understand why nothing about it EVER works normally. I’m addicted to Star Wars—but if I weren’t, I’d mock it mercilessly for its undoable business plans. It’s truly unbelievable how recalcitrant every decision-maker is. I’m always floored by its abnormality.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,857
Reaction score
1,185
Location
Philadelphia
Star Wars continues to emerge from (and descend into) a toxic well of festering social disease, rife with rumor and recrimination; every part of it seems in some oblique way obscured from normal procedure. From its content to its products, the whole thing just sidles around, brushing by. It seems to occupy the weird crannies of standard business. I’ll never understand why nothing about it EVER works normally. I’m addicted to Star Wars—but if I weren’t, I’d mock it mercilessly for its undoable business plans. It’s truly unbelievable how recalcitrant every decision-maker is. I’m always floored by its abnormality.
I just like the robots.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
2,566
Reaction score
3,344
Location
Near the greatest snow on Earth. (SLC, UT)
The wave 9 case assortment (Bo-Katan, Bib, etc.) at EE has now moved up to a November release from January.

 
Last edited:
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
37,170
Reaction score
5,209
Location
Oregon
Eh, that's Bo-Katan not Koska. You could have caused a pandemonium of people thinking she's actually coming. lol

It’s true that the Lando is an all-new sculpt. But even Hasbro knows that the 2006 VTSC Lando is just too outdated to use. It’s like the Revan thing. So they had to update him. Luke and Leia also seem too old to me—but as you say, Hasbro might juuuuuuust be able to stretch them out and make them work. They did it with Endor Han. 🙄
I'd buy them reissuing that Leia and Luke before they would ever reissue that old Lando though, simply because technically Luke has pretty much the same articulation as any other modern figure of today. And for Leia they could have gone the Bespin Escape route and simply retooled her legs to add ankles. And frankly speaking I honestly wouldn't mind them reusing Frigate Leia and doing just that along with a brand new photo real head sculpt, because adding BH hips, rocker ankles and mid torso joint isn't going to improve upon it that much.

Luke is the one that I'm torn on because I honestly really like the current figure aside from those tiny legs, so if they simply fixed that part I could live with a retool for him as well. Plus it might mean extra accessories that are needed versus none with an all new mold. While at the same time I think he needs fixed from the ground up because I don't think they could simply swap in new legs due the the mechanism that figure utilizes for hips. And the fact this is his iconic look for the character so it needs to be definitive and look great.

The main reason I prefer reuse with slight retool is because it means more resources are then saved for an all new character we've never gotten, which seems to be in short supply due to the budget constraints.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
1,854
Reaction score
2,786
Location
York, England.
Potential spoilers for a sequence from the upcoming 'Book Of Boba Fett', which I can happily already see the very easy toy release of:
 
Top