The Last Jedi - General Film Discussion Thread

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I feel much the same way. My way to live with the existence of the ST is pretty simple. If Lucas wasn’t involved in the story it’s not Star Wars. That’s not to say Lucas was infallible but he actually understood what the force should be and be capable of doing.

As bad as Jar Jar was the serious elements of the OT and PT were always pretty good. No cheesy blaster bolts held in flight, no space Leia, no force projections, no ripping light sabers in half, no silly hitting people in the head with lightsabers, and certainly no one casually pulling brooms with the force after zero training.

TL;DR: Lucas knew how to get the important aspects of SW right, my Star Wars ends with his involvement plus RO.
 
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Yeah, in a second comment I speculated maybe the fleshy stuff wore away during the 30 years between films
Yeah because the frigate where he got his first hand must have been destroyed, and they simply don't "flesh hands" anymore...
I guess advancements over 30 years in their galaxy is opposite to ours.
 
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Yeah because the frigate where he got his first hand must have been destroyed, and they simply don't "flesh hands" anymore...
I guess advancements over 30 years in their galaxy is opposite to ours.
Yes, those are the only two reasons.
 
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I feel much the same way. My way to live with the existence of the ST is pretty simple. If Lucas wasn’t involved in the story it’s not Star Wars. That’s not to say Lucas was infallible but he actually understood what the force should be and be capable of doing.

As bad as Jar Jar was the serious elements of the OT and PT were always pretty good. No cheesy blaster bolts held in flight, no space Leia, no force projections, no ripping light sabers in half, no silly hitting people in the head with lightsabers, and certainly no one casually pulling brooms with the force after zero training.

TL;DR: Lucas knew how to get the important aspects of SW right, my Star Wars ends with his involvement plus RO.
I’m starting to feel the same way. Jar Jar is annoying, but is he really any more annoying than Finn and Rose? I think they’re worse.
 
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Yeah, in a second comment I speculated maybe the fleshy stuff wore away during the 30 years between films
if we wanted to go into the EU books.. In Dark Empire Luke uses the resources of the Empire to build a new/stronger hand while under the service of the Empire. Perhaps some of the EU was saved and Disney is using the concept that the materials of the Empire were not as good? also in the same series of comics... Emperor Palpatine states to Luke that "flesh does not easily support this great power" referring to the use of the Force (I'm guessing Force Lightning) and that Emperor Palpatine had to transfer his essence into various clone bodies to keep on living.
 

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It is likely he got an upgrade somewhere along the way (do you still have your phone or TV from 30 years ago?) and decided not to get the flesh option (vanity) or the flesh wasn't maintained while in exile.
 
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I thought the mechanical hand still had the blaster mark on it from Jabbas skiff? Unlikely he got an upgrade.
 
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That's why I was thinking it had deteriorated to a point of where he just got rid of the hand and got a new one or something.

Otherwise, maybe he has a box full of hands at his disposal.
 

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You are correct I think. I looked for the blaster mark when I watched the film a second time.
 
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The Luke hand thing is just like the who are Rey's parents or who is Snoke.

It's Jar Jar's mystery box crap.

They did that to make people spend hours upon hours discussing it on the internet.

which is free advertising for them and also free hype generation.

I seriously doubt that Luke never had the hand repaired between ROTJ and TFA.

He would have fixed it himself if anything.

But Disney is crap at making Star wars and Marvel films so I doubt we'll ever see them not do this kind of gimmick in their films. :{h
 
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What’s becoming one of my many gripes with the sequels is that the militaries on both sides don’t feel professional. The “I’ll hold”/your mom joke at the beginning of TLJ underscores it.

The rebel briefing in EpIV, the coordination in V around exiting Hoth, and the briefing in EpVI all carried way more weight than any of the stage setting in the sequels. I think it’s mostly because the writing and acting treated those scenes with gravitas rather than humor, they were fun to watch because they were believable not because they were funny.

Compare those to the briefing to attack DS3 in TFA and escape the FO in TLJ and both sides seem like some kind of bad marketing to millennials. Sadly it appears to have worked on many of my peers that gobble up the millennial pandering but for me it takes me out of the movie and makes me realize “this was written to pander to millennials”.

The worst thing about it is the originals did have some humor in those scenes, “Then I’ll see you in hell”, but they came from Han mostly, who had that devil may care attitude that worked. It didn’t feel like he was trying to be funny, that’s just who he was. In the sequels it’s like everyone is vying for the next punch line.

When the characters don’t even seem to take the story serious it’s hard to build any tension, with no tension there can’t be any climactic payoff.
 
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Did anyone think that the code breaker with the flower on his lapel could have been Boba Fett? I say this because when they were talking to Maz, she had said something about him, I don't remember what, and then right after that we saw her rocket pack as she took off. We never learned anything about the character, as they got arrested before even interacting with him. Just a thought.
 
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Did anyone think that the code breaker with the flower on his lapel could have been Boba Fett? I say this because when they were talking to Maz, she had said something about him, I don't remember what, and then right after that we saw her rocket pack as she took off. We never learned anything about the character, as they got arrested before even interacting with him. Just a thought.
If it was anyone, it would have been a nod to Indiana Jones. Keep in mind by the time of the sequel trilogy Boba Fett is basically old enough to be totally out of the whole "bounty hunter" game. Nor would Boba have a red flower on his lapel.

This image, nor any of the others really have a flower-shaped pin on his chest anywhere.
 
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Well "WTF" was my feeling throughout much of movie...and apparently I wasn't the only one.
 
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My favorite part of the movie is the idea of destruction it presented.

Luke talking about the Jedi needing to end....

Then Kylo telling Rey to destroy the past, the Jedi, the sith, who cares.

That to me was interesting. Star Wars has been creatively bankrupt for 34 years. As a franchise I am completely ready for them to burn the status quo to the ground. Yet everyone seems to just want more of Luke han and Leia. They are great, don't get me wrong. But there story is well over.

When I see people complain about how this movie destroyed star wars I say good. My problem is this movie didn't go far enough. It was close, so close...then it backed away from the edge. It fell into the status quo again.

I hoped to see something truly daring. John wick 2 stuff. Or Farscape.

Right before I went into the movie I turned to my friends and in a half joking manner I said I hope every main character dies. Can you imagine? People are freaking out over Luke just imagine how amazing it would have been for all the mains die. Gimmicky, maybe but it would have been amazing.

But alas, this is a story for children. Somewhere along the line we lost track of that and took a weird personal ownership of this thing.

I love star wars. Always will. But I don't have to like all of it.
 
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For me it's not about Luke dying. Frankly that whole end sequence when Luke becomes one with the Force was the only redeeming part of that whole 4 hour debacle. Obviously the old guard has to go away. For anyone to not grasp that means they are delusional.

My problem was the way Luke was portrayed up until that moment. I knew it was going to be parody the second they had him fling that lightsaber over his shoulder. The editing, writing, tone (the god awful attempts at humor) and the messages that were shoved down our throats all bothered me.
 
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As a franchise I am completely ready for them to burn the status quo to the ground. Yet everyone seems to just want more of Luke han and Leia.
I don't think we were wanting more Luke Han & Leia, well maybe those HC OT fans. Most of us were open to new Star Wars, just not at the expense of our beloved characters. There was no need to burn them to the ground, like you said it's been over 30 years. So who even remembers them or was expecting them? Most of the new fans were either brought up on the PT, or just econ hand fans. The attachment wasn't there. So why was it needed to so strongly in your face kill the past, when we all basically got that message in TFA?

They could have just as easily set it 20 years later than they did, and avoided the OT characters all together. Having essentially gotten our heroes ending in ROTJ, there was no real need to revisit them. Especially just to make a point to certain Fans. It's almost like burying the dead, then digging them up just to kill'em again. I realize you cannot please everyone all the time, but is it important to purposely p*** one person off to make another happy? What's worse is that they had to spell it out at every turn with their no so hidden message.

I've always maintained that the spin-offs could be potentially more entertaining/interesting.
 
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I would have been completely fine with them setting the movie 20 years later and doing just a story beyond the big 3. I want to clarify my burn it to the ground statement as I don't intend for it to be just a violent killing of the big 3. I just want to see things moving. Mixing things up. Not the same old stuff we keep seeing.

I like the ST more than dislike it. Including TLJ. What I like about it is the energy that's there that seemed to be missing from the PT. The series has to grow though. I'm just not sure star wars as a franchise really can. It's a very limited galaxy at least in terms of what kind of story you can tell.

I'd love to be proven wrong. But I'm not sure I will be.
 
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Well, TBH the Franchise hasn't really ever put out great movies. Compared to other Sci-Fi flicks I've seen. IMO, if it weren't for the dedicated Fans, they likely wouldn't have done was well. Once the chicness wears off of being a fan because it's cool at the moment, I'm curious to see well they do. Just look at NuTrek, it hasn't exactly done great despite trying to be less technical and more whatever it is.

Some of the story lines from TLJ I'd like see explored in more depth, such as the Force tree and the Prime Jedi etc. Or perhaps stories totally removed from the Empire or Rebels. The whole concept behind "Balance" for instance, and how it seems to always play out or be represented. As being about number of users on either side. If Luke brought it into Balance, why are we back here again? Surely the Force would have pushed back against it this time around?

Maybe it's not about how many people follow the Light or Dark at any give time, but the "balance" between the two that the user keeps within him/her?
And then there's Snoke, was he created just as a throw-away? While it wouldn't be the first time a high level person died early in the Saga, it feels odd this time. it feels like he should have been more. I'm fine with him not being "somebody" connected to anyone in particular. Especially is he had just been a Tarkin type, an Officer who simply climbed the ranks. But he's a Force user, there must be a bigger reason to his existence. Who he is and where he came from.

Not everything needs explained, like Finn's occupation within the FO. Or if he has a Sister. Or if his Uncle's Brother is his father. But for someone like Snoke, he should have deeper lore and agenda.
 
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Well, TBH the Franchise hasn't really ever put out great movies. Compared to other Sci-Fi flicks I've seen. IMO, if it weren't for the dedicated Fans, they likely wouldn't have done was well. Once the chicness wears off of being a fan because it's cool at the moment, I'm curious to see well they do. Just look at NuTrek, it hasn't exactly done great despite trying to be less technical and more whatever it is.

Some of the story lines from TLJ I'd like see explored in more depth, such as the Force tree and the Prime Jedi etc. Or perhaps stories totally removed from the Empire or Rebels. The whole concept behind "Balance" for instance, and how it seems to always play out or be represented. As being about number of users on either side. If Luke brought it into Balance, why are we back here again? Surely the Force would have pushed back against it this time around?

Maybe it's not about how many people follow the Light or Dark at any give time, but the "balance" between the two that the user keeps within him/her?
And then there's Snoke, was he created just as a throw-away? While it wouldn't be the first time a high level person died early in the Saga, it feels odd this time. it feels like he should have been more. I'm fine with him not being "somebody" connected to anyone in particular. Especially is he had just been a Tarkin type, an Officer who simply climbed the ranks. But he's a Force user, there must be a bigger reason to his existence. Who he is and where he came from.

Not everything needs explained, like Finn's occupation within the FO. Or if he has a Sister. Or if his Uncle's Brother is his father. But for someone like Snoke, he should have deeper lore and agenda.

Between the name of the movie and Rey, that has always been my assumption. Balance within yourself. From what we've seen in the movies and what has been said I don't think the Force has been in balance for thousands of years. Jedi and Sith try to deny the duality every person has within themselves.
 
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I don't think we were wanting more Luke Han & Leia, well maybe those HC OT fans. Most of us were open to new Star Wars, just not at the expense of our beloved characters. There was no need to burn them to the ground, like you said it's been over 30 years. So who even remembers them or was expecting them? Most of the new fans were either brought up on the PT, or just econ hand fans. The attachment wasn't there. So why was it needed to so strongly in your face kill the past, when we all basically got that message in TFA?

They could have just as easily set it 20 years later than they did, and avoided the OT characters all together. Having essentially gotten our heroes ending in ROTJ, there was no real need to revisit them. Especially just to make a point to certain Fans. It's almost like burying the dead, then digging them up just to kill'em again. I realize you cannot please everyone all the time, but is it important to purposely p*** one person off to make another happy? What's worse is that they had to spell it out at every turn with their no so hidden message.

I've always maintained that the spin-offs could be potentially more entertaining/interesting.
These are my sentiments. Based on this timeline Luke is only 52 when he dies. The Skywalker family deserves some peace at this point. Unlike some fans I’ve seen I actually don’t enjoy watching my favorite characters go through constant pain and suffering and then die. It’s masochistic. Anakin spends his whole life being told he’s special, becomes powerful, falls, and finally redeams himself with the help of his son.

Why would we want to see all of that emotion and pain and triumph trivialized by THE EXACT SAME THING happening again 30 years later at the hands of another Skywalker. Who could possibly want that for the characters unless you hate them? The only Skywalker that can survive this trilogy is evil and beyond redemption.

Add to this the fact that the new republic was destroyed by a nonsense hyperspace weapon in an unemotional scene that’s still carried almost no weight. All of the acts of the PT and OT have been undone in a few fell swoops carried out by an irritatingly similar threat, one our heroes should have been better able to stop. Its exhausting and depressing more than it is entertaining.

As much as something like the Yuuzhan Vong could have avoided this I can’t believe they could make it in a way that wasn’t corny, at least not similarly corny as having complete and identical stand ins for the OT enemies. I think we’re ultimately out of interesting stories to tell about the PT/OT world. So I agree, they shouldn’t have felt so pressured to include the OT characters just to kill them off and ruin all of their heroics.
 
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That’s quite a reach
Not really if you consider that people were already drawing conclusions as to DJ's character being Boba Fett, as well. I don't remember what it was that was said, but it just seemed like some kind of hint when paired with the jet pack. I didn't notice this until the second viewing.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not the guy who tries to make connections of everything and is desperate to see Fett in the ST. It might be cool, if it worked with the story. He could have been undercover or something, or who knows, he could easily have been retired by now. GL did say that Boba Fett survived the sarlaac sometime before or during production of TFA.

Anyway this is just some fun speculation and I was wondering if anyone else thought anything of it.
 
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My favorite part of the movie is the idea of destruction it presented.

Luke talking about the Jedi needing to end....

Then Kylo telling Rey to destroy the past, the Jedi, the sith, who cares.

That to me was interesting. Star Wars has been creatively bankrupt for 34 years. As a franchise I am completely ready for them to burn the status quo to the ground. Yet everyone seems to just want more of Luke han and Leia. They are great, don't get me wrong. But there story is well over.

When I see people complain about how this movie destroyed star wars I say good. My problem is this movie didn't go far enough. It was close, so close...then it backed away from the edge. It fell into the status quo again.

I hoped to see something truly daring. John wick 2 stuff. Or Farscape.

Right before I went into the movie I turned to my friends and in a half joking manner I said I hope every main character dies. Can you imagine? People are freaking out over Luke just imagine how amazing it would have been for all the mains die. Gimmicky, maybe but it would have been amazing.

But alas, this is a story for children. Somewhere along the line we lost track of that and took a weird personal ownership of this thing.

I love star wars. Always will. But I don't have to like all of it.
I totally agree with you. And it's awesome to see a little positivity on this thread in light of all the negative reviews. I can't hate on anyone for not liking TLJ, it's just cool to see I'm not the only hardcore fan that liked it.

I've read a lot of the novels, particularly those taking place within 5 or 10 years after ROTJ. While they were pretty cool, the characters didn't seem to evolve that much, but instead just continue their adventures. I think if they went this direction with the ST it would have been too predictable and in danger of becoming stale.

Honestly I don't know if there's a way the ST could be carried out that most of the hardcore fans would love. Everyone has expectations, and this is completely normal and hard to get away from, but it almost always leads to disappointment. I don't think anything will make most old school fans love a SW movie as much as the OT.

I grew up in the 80's and loved SW literally as long as I can remember. The OT will always be number one in my book, and I don't think anything will change that. But I went into this knowing it was time to let go of all that and see where else it can go, and I've been pretty happy with how it's turning out so far. I feel for you guys that don't like it because I know that had to be a huge letdown. Hopefully episode 9 will have something for everyone, though I know that's a tall order.
 
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These are my sentiments. Based on this timeline Luke is only 52 when he dies. The Skywalker family deserves some peace at this point. Unlike some fans I’ve seen I actually don’t enjoy watching my favorite characters go through constant pain and suffering and then die. It’s masochistic. Anakin spends his whole life being told he’s special, becomes powerful, falls, and finally redeams himself with the help of his son.

Why would we want to see all of that emotion and pain and triumph trivialized by THE EXACT SAME THING happening again 30 years later at the hands of another Skywalker. Who could possibly want that for the characters unless you hate them? The only Skywalker that can survive this trilogy is evil and beyond redemption.

Add to this the fact that the new republic was destroyed by a nonsense hyperspace weapon in an unemotional scene that’s still carried almost no weight. All of the acts of the PT and OT have been undone in a few fell swoops carried out by an irritatingly similar threat, one our heroes should have been better able to stop. Its exhausting and depressing more than it is entertaining.

As much as something like the Yuuzhan Vong could have avoided this I can’t believe they could make it in a way that wasn’t corny, at least not similarly corny as having complete and identical stand ins for the OT enemies. I think we’re ultimately out of interesting stories to tell about the PT/OT world. So I agree, they shouldn’t have felt so pressured to include the OT characters just to kill them off and ruin all of their heroics.
Sorry for the triple post, guys.

I just had to say I get what you're saying with this, and the overly similar themes have been one of the things that have bugged me most about the ST so far. Visually it's really cool, and it does help make it feel like SW, but it would have been cool if they could have changed things up a little more. They could have shown a little of the building of the New Republic and what it has become, as such a regime change would definitely still be in the works 30 years later. I mean the last remnants of the senate weren't dissolved until ANH, 20 years after Palpatine installed the Empire. Instead we're taken to almost the exact same situation, only with different names.

Maybe Disney is just trying to play it safe and reboot it in a more time-tested way. If we get another trilogy, which I'm sure we will, perhaps they'll be a little daring. Or maybe we'll be forever stuck in this loop. This is one reason I'm excited to see what RJ does with his trilogy.
 
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Until I became a SW fan, I didn't realize it was possible to be so angry over a movie(and it's supplementary material). I can understand not liking it but to the extent some do is....shocking.
 
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Until I became a SW fan, I didn't realize it was possible to be so angry over a movie(and it's supplementary material). I can understand not liking it but to the extent some do is....shocking.
I’m not angry, I’m just done with it. TFA and TLJ have left such a bad taste in my mouth I’ll probably abandon the fandom in a few months. It’s bad enough they ruined Luke Skywalker in TLJ they also made him weak and useless in the new Battlefront game. Everywhere I go in SW my favorite characters are getting ruined and the content is getting worse. Rebels is too geared for kids and has ugly animation. The Battlefront games are boring and broken. The toys are all 5POA or impossible to find, when you do find them the paint is terrible.

Whats left that’s enjoyable about this hobby? Clinging onto the past? Disney made it explicit via Crylo Ren that we need to let go of the past. Well it’s the only good thing left about SW. I’ll let go of it, but not so I can spend time or money on this new garbage. I’ve already said I won’t buy another SW video game after the terrible Battlefront 2, and I won’t spend another penny on a SW movie after TLJ. The only thing I still consider are toys from the OT, but even that has soured and will probably fade entirely.
 
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So apparently the Blu Ray will have over 2 hours of extra content. Maybe that 2 hours is the good movie...
 
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So apparently the Blu Ray will have over 2 hours of extra content. Maybe that 2 hours is the good movie...
Well apparently Rey force runs to save the caretakers from pirates but it ends up being a porg, caretaker, Chewy dance party she crashes. Luke lied to see if she would protect innocents.

TL;DR: don’t get your hopes up
 
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