Stormtroopers in The Empire Strikes Back

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Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the first time we see stormtroopers in Empire is when they swarm in behind the group on Cloud City after Darth Vader takes Han Solo's gun. This seems so late in the film to reintroduce such an iconic element of the first film. It probably seemed noticeable in the theatre in 1980 but not so much now in a world crawling with Star Wars images. Correct me if I'm wrong about this being their first appearance. I don't count the snowtroopers on Hoth.
 
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Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the first time we see stormtroopers in Empire is when they swarm in behind the group on Cloud City after Darth Vader takes Han Solo's gun. This seems so late in the film to reintroduce such an iconic element of the first film. It probably seemed noticeable in the theatre in 1980 but not so much now in a world crawling with Star Wars images. Correct me if I'm wrong about this being their first appearance. I don't count the snowtroopers on Hoth.
Kudos on an odd yet cool observation for old school fans like myself.

I'll let someone else confirm it... but I think you're right.

I remember the troopers coming off notably alien in that Bespin locale.... maybe its partly because of what you pointed out.... it being the first time we've seen them since 1977.
 
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Good observation.

As I kid I just remember SNOWTROOPERS COOL! and forgot all about the standard stormtrooper.

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Guess what other element TLJ cribbed off ESB?
That's right, the standard troopers show up very late in that film too. (during the Supremacy infiltration)

There's not a single OT stormtrooper visible in the corridors leading up to the Executor bridge in ESB?
 
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An interesting point and I think you're right. I was thinking there was one on the star destroyer somewhere, but thinking again, I'm sure they were just naval troopers.
 
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I never really noticed this, but thinking on it...you're right. The classic trooper is introduced late in the film. I suppose the Snowtrooper really fulfills the role though, the generic soldier. They're just specialized. I always thought the Snowtrooper design was somewhat risque, but on point. They kind of look like futurist KKK members and I assume perhaps that's intentional.
 
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Aren't Snowtroopers just Stormtroopers equipped and trained for cold environments?
Essentially. Snowtroopers have always been strange to me. They're easily the least used on screen of the four (sand, regular, snow, scout) troopers. They barely get any screen time and don't really do much. Their main scene would probably be when they're flanking Vader in Echo base and the Falcon gun takes them out. I guess technically there is a fifth type of trooper in the OT, that being the space trooper, and it's probably seen for less than three seconds. And really they're just regular stormtroopers with an oxygen tank.
 
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The way I understand it (and this is subject to change cos Disney keep introducing new troopers to sell toys) is that the Stormtrooper Corps are a semi independent arm of Imperial special forces, as it were. With further subdivisions of specialised personnel, such as troops trained for extreme conditions, like Sandtroopers and Snowtroopers, with the ultimate expression of the Stormtrooper Corps being the Imperial Royal Guard.

This was all more contained and sensible before all the EU junk started adding loads of nonsense to the mix and it's even worse now with Disney's junk added as well.

The Empire now have more troop variations (toys) than they know what to do with.
 
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Essentially. Snowtroopers have always been strange to me. They're easily the least used on screen of the four (sand, regular, snow, scout) troopers. They barely get any screen time and don't really do much. Their main scene would probably be when they're flanking Vader in Echo base and the Falcon gun takes them out. I guess technically there is a fifth type of trooper in the OT, that being the space trooper, and it's probably seen for less than three seconds. And really they're just regular stormtroopers with an oxygen tank.
Don't forget the AT-AT Driver Troopers.
 
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The way I understand it (and this is subject to change cos Disney keep introducing new troopers to sell toys) is that the Stormtrooper Corps are a semi independent arm of Imperial special forces, as it were. With further subdivisions of specialised personnel, such as troops trained for extreme conditions, like Sandtroopers and Snowtroopers, with the ultimate expression of the Stormtrooper Corps being the Imperial Royal Guard.

This was all more contained and sensible before all the EU junk started adding loads of nonsense to the mix and it's even worse now with Disney's junk added as well.

The Empire now have more troop variations (toys) than they know what to do with.
It has become somewhat convoluted, hasn't it? I loved Rogue One, but honestly? Way too much convenience as far as NEW ships/troopers that JUST SO HAPPEN to never be seen in the OT. It retroactively makes no sense. I mean I can justify the Death Troopers mostly, they're a super elite and top secret experimental off-shoot. So perhaps they were ONLY used this one time and then funding pulled the plug and the program was cancelled. But like, that new TIE, the other new troopers, the new tank? Then you throw in Solo as well and there's even more! Honestly, if I had my way, they'd have predominately been just regular old Stormtroopers.

Now here's a question: what is ranking? Are Stormtroopers bottom of the barrel? I would assume the bottom of rank would be like, say, scanning crew members and such. But like, do the specialized stormtroopers outrank the regular variety? I would assume even the lowest tier officer outranks all of them. Where do Death Star troopers and pilots/drivers rank? And for troopers, I would assume top dog to be the Royal Guard.
 
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It has become somewhat convoluted, hasn't it? I loved Rogue One, but honestly? Way too much convenience as far as NEW ships/troopers that JUST SO HAPPEN to never be seen in the OT. It retroactively makes no sense. I mean I can justify the Death Troopers mostly, they're a super elite and top secret experimental off-shoot. So perhaps they were ONLY used this one time and then funding pulled the plug and the program was cancelled. But like, that new TIE, the other new troopers, the new tank? Then you throw in Solo as well and there's even more! Honestly, if I had my way, they'd have predominately been just regular old Stormtroopers.

Now here's a question: what is ranking? Are Stormtroopers bottom of the barrel? I would assume the bottom of rank would be like, say, scanning crew members and such. But like, do the specialized stormtroopers outrank the regular variety? I would assume even the lowest tier officer outranks all of them. Where do Death Star troopers and pilots/drivers rank? And for troopers, I would assume top dog to be the Royal Guard.
This higharchy is interesting. The empire also has separate branches of service, primarily Army and Navy.

In my head cannon, the guys wearing the big black helmets are the Imperial Naval troopers (old Kenner figure “Death Squad Commander”). They had grey uniforms too. You also see them in garrisons, the Death Star, Star Destroyers, etc.

Typical white Stormtroopers of almost any variant seem to be Army. Exception seems tone Black helmeted TIE pilots.

That said, I’d be happy if someone could point me to a better official guide.


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It has become somewhat convoluted, hasn't it? I loved Rogue One, but honestly? Way too much convenience as far as NEW ships/troopers that JUST SO HAPPEN to never be seen in the OT. It retroactively makes no sense. I mean I can justify the Death Troopers mostly, they're a super elite and top secret experimental off-shoot. So perhaps they were ONLY used this one time and then funding pulled the plug and the program was cancelled. But like, that new TIE, the other new troopers, the new tank? Then you throw in Solo as well and there's even more! Honestly, if I had my way, they'd have predominately been just regular old Stormtroopers.

Now here's a question: what is ranking? Are Stormtroopers bottom of the barrel? I would assume the bottom of rank would be like, say, scanning crew members and such. But like, do the specialized stormtroopers outrank the regular variety? I would assume even the lowest tier officer outranks all of them. Where do Death Star troopers and pilots/drivers rank? And for troopers, I would assume top dog to be the Royal Guard.
'Rogue One' was great, but yeh, we didn't really need the "shore troopers" or "Death Troopers", as cool as they looked. But, I let it slide. A couple of new additions were fine. Then 'Solo' comes along and there's bleedin more stuff. "Mud Troopers"...WTF? "Mimban Troopers"? It's just bloody silly now.

I reckon the so called "Mud Troopers" or "Swamp Troopers" are the bottom feeders. Recruits of NCO's and enlisted men who are thrown into battle after six months basic boot camp training. The grunts of the army as such. Then you have the Imperial Navy types, "Death Star Troopers" and pilots and whatnot. Then there's the stormtrooper corps, who are essentially their own hierarchy. They are also the guys we see in the black uniforms on the Death Star. This is the uniform they wear when not in action.






After that, there are the mechanised personnel, like AT AT Drivers, AT ST Drivers and such. The Royal Guard are supposed to be ex Stormtroopers, who volunteer for Imperial Guard Duty and have to go through rigorous training for the honour.

As for specialised Stormtroopers, I don't think they have any sway over a normal stormtrooper if they of the same rank. However, I would guess a Sandtrooper Sergeant...





...could give orders to a run of the mill Stormtrooper of a lower rank.

Of course, this is all purely hypothetical nonsense. There's probably zero real data on any of it to back up this rubbish.
 
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Yeah I'm really not sure if there is an official rank system either, but we can assume some of it. The Emperor is obviously the highest authority, Grand Moff being second, Moff third. If I remember right, Vader is an exception to the chain of command. He's like outside the system, but I assume he'd be considered (comparatively) Grand Moff level authority.

As for the troopers, I just assume the Royal Guard are the most dignified position. I really don't know if pilots and operations drivers would be of higher level than stormtroopers (even the specialized), but I would assume they are. It's more responsibility, heavy machinery and such. More training I'd imagine.
 
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I guess technically there is a fifth type of trooper in the OT, that being the space trooper, and it's probably seen for less than three seconds. And really they're just regular stormtroopers with an oxygen tank.
Wow, I don't think I ever really noticed the spacetroopers. Are they in the original version or only the special edition? I found the scene where they appear on YouTube, when the Millennium Falcon first enters the Death Star, but wasn't sure if it was original or special (I'm too lazy to fire up my VCR and fast forward to the scene on my 1995 VHS copy).
 
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Wow, I don't think I ever really noticed the spacetroopers. Are they in the original version or only the special edition? I found the scene where they appear on YouTube, when the Millennium Falcon first enters the Death Star, but wasn't sure if it was original or special (I'm too lazy to fire up my VCR and fast forward to the scene on my 1995 VHS copy).
You know, I actually don't know if it's original original or special edition. I honestly never even noticed them either until Hasbro actually made a figure of one. One neat thing I found out though is that concept artist and eventually film director Joe Johnson played the Spacetroopers in the film.
 
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Watching the movie for the 1st time I was very happy to see the old stormtroopers. I was an 80s kid & expected new troops to sell toys. Behind the scenes it might have been an ask from Kenner since I know they were excited when the at at showed up in Jedi. Huge money maker for them to re use the older products.
 
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The space troopers are in the original cut of the film. They're just some lads knocking about outside the death star when the falcon is being tractor beamed in.

 
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Thanks for informing. I honestly couldn't find anywhere online if the space troopers were originals or SE (and subsequent altered releases) and totally not from lack of trying. I basically gave up, essentially saying the only way I'll know is if I actually owned and watch the 1977 cut. Sadly I don't own it. But yeah, at the end of the day, they're less their own troopers and more just stormtroopers with added gear. Which really, end of the day, are what the Sandtroopers are too.
 
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The original cuts are the only way I watch Star Wars. I absolutely detest those rubbish special editions.

Check out Harmy despecialized fan edits. They're essential. When you see Star Wars without all of the 90's Lucas junk in it, you remember just how fantastic they were in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmy's_Despecialized_Edition

I'll never watch the special editions again.
 
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They Shouldn't be on eBay and anyone selling them should be considered dodgy.

These are fan edits and as such, considered fine to share. But, nobody should be selling them. I certainly wouldn't pay money for them.
 
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They Shouldn't be on eBay and anyone selling them should be considered dodgy.

These are fan edits and as such, considered fine to share. But, nobody should be selling them. I certainly wouldn't pay money for them.
That's what I figured. Kind of like seeing those 70's Spider-Man, Captain America tv shows on DVD on ebay. Just burnt copies.
 
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Excluding Snowtroopers, yeah, Cloud City is the first time we see proper Stormtroopers. That being said, in the novelization, the first time they appear is when Vader kills Needa. Two Stormtroopers drag him off instead of two Navy Troopers.
 
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Excluding Snowtroopers, yeah, Cloud City is the first time we see proper Stormtroopers. That being said, in the novelization, the first time they appear is when Vader kills Needa. Two Stormtroopers drag him off instead of two Navy Troopers.
Naval troopers where probably the better choice. Not much need to have Stormtroopers on a bridge of a SD.

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It has become somewhat convoluted, hasn't it? I loved Rogue One, but honestly? Way too much convenience as far as NEW ships/troopers that JUST SO HAPPEN to never be seen in the OT. It retroactively makes no sense. I mean I can justify the Death Troopers mostly, they're a super elite and top secret experimental off-shoot. So perhaps they were ONLY used this one time and then funding pulled the plug and the program was cancelled. But like, that new TIE, the other new troopers, the new tank? Then you throw in Solo as well and there's even more! Honestly, if I had my way, they'd have predominately been just regular old Stormtroopers.
I always assumed the Death Troopers were Krennic's personal guards. Cassian killed two of them, Baze took out the other six, so with Krennic dead, there was no reason for them anymore.
 
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I always assumed the Death Troopers were Krennic's personal guards. Cassian killed two of them, Baze took out the other six, so with Krennic dead, there was no reason for them anymore.
That was my assumption as well. As for the TIE Striker - I put that down to Scarif being a base of experimental designs, so they were essentially prototypes. Will take a look at the visual dictionary when I'm back home next week and see if any of these questions are addressed.

I'm not the biggest fan of Disney's work but I think the way they've built out the Empire has largely worked. Changing the Sandtrooper's distinctive pauldron to a rank signifier took some adjustment but makes sense, while the amount of new troops we're seeing show how big the galaxy is.

Of course it's all motivated by money, no question. But they're making new troopers because the toys sell - which means people like us can't get enough of buying them. Works for me.
 
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Death Troopers without Krennic showed up in Rebels, there's definitely more of them out there than the 1-2 squads seen (and killed) in R1.
That said, it makes sense that these experimental troopers are a result of Krennic's weapons development program. After Krennic, Galen, all of Erso's Eadu scientists and the Scarif blue-prints vault are destroyed, that program is basically dead. Death troopers would probably be re-assigned, perhaps as Imperial Commandos, or further developed into DF Dark Troopers or JK2 Shadow Troopers.

Funny, every time some redundant new design shows up in a merchandise-driven medium, I think it's introduced to sell toys. And then oftentimes they don't even make proper toys out of something, which really defeats the purpose. I mean, no Resistance Transport, AT-M6, Battering Ram Cannon, Resistance Bomber, AT Hauler, Conveyex, TIE Reaper, Jedha Stormtroopers...
 
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Death Troopers are under the command of the Imperial Intelligence Service. They are essentially the SAS of the Empire. Hand picked to perform special duties. I don't think Krennic has anything to do with their creation or their assignments, other than giving orders to the squad that were assigned to him.

The Death Trooper and the Shore Trooper of 'Rogue One' are just troopers we hadn't seen yet and in that respect, I can let them go. Plus their designs were pretty cool looking, so that helped. Personally, I'd have preferred if the so called "Shore Troopers" were all just regular Stormtroopers.

That being said, I am getting sick of Disney's new trooper designs (AKA toy designs) clogging up what is now an already bloated Empire and I'd rather not see any more. The Patrol Trooper in 'Solo' was an especially unnecessary addition and it comes across as a cheap mish-mash of previous and much better designs.
 
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Well I mean, at the end of the day, people are right...we know what it is. New troopers are created to produce new products. I can let certain things slide, sure, like I can roll with the Death Troopers. I was a huge fan of the Dark Forces video games and at the end of the day, they're essentially the film version of Dark Troopers. In fact, I think it pretty easy to argue that Rogue One was an adaptation OF Dark Forces really. But I just, I don't know, sometimes it feels a bit much, the variant troopers.
 
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