TLJ Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

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He may have knew about the EU - not one single stitch of that fan fiction nonsense influenced TFA.

As for TLJ - I would have taken the whole story of the long lost vegetable monster Yuzon Vongalongalong taking over instead of TLJ.
 
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As for TLJ - I would have taken the whole story of the long lost vegetable monster Yuzon Vongalongalong taking over instead of TLJ.
I'd never considered that as an option. I agree. And I absolutely hated the whole concept, too.
 
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I'd never considered that as an option. I agree. And I absolutely hated the whole concept, too.
Me too.

But at least maybe we would have seen Luke as a hero (that we deserved to see after waiting 40 years) instead of some suicidal recluse sucking the teet of some creature and getting physically bested by some girl who never used a lightsaber and learned about The Force 5 minutes ago.

Unless you call projecting yourself across the Galaxy to stall the nephew you almost murdered when he was sleeping to save the 14 members left of the Resistance heroic (a Resistance that is decimated because the new hero, Rey, decided it was better to go play Romeo and Juliet with Kylo instead of go help them with her amazing Force powers).

Yea I'd take Salad Monsters from Deep Space over TLJ any day of the week.
 
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look up Kasdans' comments on the EU. these guys are completely clueless.
Kasdan didn't even know that Maul had been brought back in the cartoons --hence the cameo in Solo -- he thought it was "clever".
 
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Me too.

But at least maybe we would have seen Luke as a hero (that we deserved to see after waiting 40 years) instead of some suicidal recluse sucking the teet of some creature and getting physically bested by some girl who never used a lightsaber and learned about The Force 5 minutes ago.

Unless you call projecting yourself across the Galaxy to stall the nephew you almost murdered when he was sleeping to save the 14 members left of the Resistance heroic (a Resistance that is decimated because the new hero, Rey, decided it was better to go play Romeo and Juliet with Kylo instead of go help them with her amazing Force powers).

Yea I'd take Salad Monsters from Deep Space over TLJ any day of the week.
This gets the win for the Week!
I don't care who you are,(but hurt TLJ hater, or staunch supporter of nonsense), that's just funny.
 
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He may have knew about the EU - not one single stitch of that fan fiction nonsense influenced TFA.

As for TLJ - I would have taken the whole story of the long lost vegetable monster Yuzon Vongalongalong taking over instead of TLJ.
I think someone at LFL told him to call Kylo Ben so LFL could shake off two characters from the old EU rather easily. JJ probably just shrugged and said, "OK, whatever..."
 
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I think someone at LFL told him to call Kylo Ben so LFL could shake off two characters from the old EU rather easily. JJ probably just shrugged and said, "OK, whatever..."
Starkiller Base wiped out any chance of Starkiller making a Disney appearance along with Galen Erso really sticking the nail in the coffin (Galen Marek).
 
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And you still believe that it was all done by coincidence? ^
What are the odds of them using those exact names, just differently? Have to remember that this isn't GL recycling names like Mace again.
 
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And you still believe that it was all done by coincidence? ^
What are the odds of them using those exact names, just differently? Have to remember that this isn't GL recycling names like Mace again.
The whole argument above has to do with the story beats being influenced by the EU. None of it was because the general ideas (Skywalker Jedi Academy/offspring of Solo and Leia) were basically written in 1983 when ROTJ ended.

Coincidence? Nope. It was basically the only story to be told if including the original characters was part of the deal. JJ didn't need the EU for that...he just needed ROTJ.

Starkiller and Galen were definitely names taken from the EU but the cinematic use was in no way connected to the story of the video game. At all. That's the point here.
 
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And you still believe that it was all done by coincidence? ^
What are the odds of them using those exact names, just differently? Have to remember that this isn't GL recycling names like Mace again.
Agreed. I don't think it was just coincidence. I'm not saying JJ came up with this on his own, but I think someone at LFL thought it would be a way of erasing some of the old EU to an extent that it could not be brought back.
 
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Actually it was Luke's original surname and EU was the first source to re-use it.
Yep you are absolutely right. TLJ has destroyed my mind to the point where I'm forgetting the fn' basics.

(Yea I'm blaming TLJ - not the fact that I was posting at 2am and half asleep)
 
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Yep you are absolutely right. TLJ has destroyed my mind to the point where I'm forgetting the fn' basics.

(Yea I'm blaming TLJ - not the fact that I was posting at 2am and half asleep)
I think it's more than fair to blame TLJ. The movie has obviously hurt a lot of us SW fans more than we know, right?
I
 
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Don't forget, that we also have two Starkiller figures because of it! lol
I know there more than two versions, but I'm referring to two separate characters with the same name for clarity.
 
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That's some serious tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist **** right there.
You think so.........??? Can you give me another reason for them having Han and Leia's only son named Ben, then?

I'm actually grasping for straws here. After TFA, I really wanted to still like the ST, but after TLJ, I pretty much gave up, but was holding out a little hope for E IX, but yeah, I've pretty much given up on post-ROTJ Star Wars.............................
 
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after the Solo movie dropped and the world was reacting to the Maul Cameo,
Kasdan HIMSELF said: he had no idea that Maul had ALREADY been brought back. (!?)
he thought it was new and clever.

--> I'm sure he thought the name "Ben" was new and clever.
no doubt, he had NO IDEA that 'Luke's Son' was already named Ben.
(if he's not even aware of current TV shows... then the chances of him being aware of the obscure 90's novels are VERY slim indeed).

Kasdan is very proud to be ignorant of the old EU. he's always making jokes about it.
he pays NO attention to the events to the old EU. which means......

......he named Han's Son "Ben" because he was "re-inventing the wheel". so to speak.
(he thought it was HIS idea). :rolleyes:
 
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You think so.........??? Can you give me another reason for them having Han and Leia's only son named Ben, then?

I'm actually grasping for straws here. After TFA, I really wanted to still like the ST, but after TLJ, I pretty much gave up, but was holding out a little hope for E IX, but yeah, I've pretty much given up on post-ROTJ Star Wars.............................
You mean other than the fact that Ben Kenobi was the reason they met, AND the man who orchestrated her release from certain death?
 
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I watched TLJ again tonight.

Honestly...if they didn't have Luke toss that lightsaber over this shoulder like it was some Star Wars parody I might not have disliked the movie as much as I do. For me that was a major turn off. Like irreparable. I could get on board with Luke's whole attitude throughout the movie. The Leia Poppins thing was ridiculous but so was most of the additions in the SE versions of the OT. They killed off Snoke and Rey is not from a famous bloodline...eh don't really care.

But seriously the lightsaber thing did it for me.

I loved TFA. I could honestly say that for 2 years I thought about how that scene with Rey and Luke was going to play out daily. That sweeping final shot of TFA was absolutely breathtaking for me...and it culminated with Luke tossing the first lightsaber we ever saw in this Saga over his shoulder like it was ****.

I really want JJ to fix this. Please.
 
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"This will begin to make things right... again."

I think JJ will do a serviceable job. I'd like him to be as courageous as Johnson. Time will tell.
 
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I watched TLJ again tonight.

Honestly...if they didn't have Luke toss that lightsaber over this shoulder like it was some Star Wars parody I might not have disliked the movie as much as I do. For me that was a major turn off. Like irreparable. I could get on board with Luke's whole attitude throughout the movie. The Leia Poppins thing was ridiculous but so was most of the additions in the SE versions of the OT. They killed off Snoke and Rey is not from a famous bloodline...eh don't really care.

But seriously the lightsaber thing did it for me.

I loved TFA. I could honestly say that for 2 years I thought about how that scene with Rey and Luke was going to play out daily. That sweeping final shot of TFA was absolutely breathtaking for me...and it culminated with Luke tossing the first lightsaber we ever saw in this Saga over his shoulder like it was ****.

I really want JJ to fix this. Please.
For me, upon seeing that scene opening night for the first time, I couldn't believe it. What flooded my mind was thoughts of Guardians of the Galaxy, that sort of bathos sense of humor; undercutting a very serious scene with a jarringly inappropriate comedic gag. That WORKS with Guardians, it works because that is what Guardians established itself as. Comedic! But that is not the shtick of Star Wars. This is an already established universe, so while that doesn't mean you can't try something new, it does mean you still have to find a way of meshing that new in with the pre-established continuity. You have to be respectful. I found the lightsaber scene to be essentially peeing on someones grave. In a way, the blue lightsaber represents a monolith, a tomb, a shrine. You don't mock that. While Star Wars does have elements of levity and humor, it's always appropriately so in the original trilogy. For there to be a joke made via something that, ultimately, is extremely serious...Luke seeing the lightsaber...it felt downright insulting. It felt like what I can only imagine would be viewing someone vandalize someones grave. It was almost this surreal moment for me, I was literally sitting there questioning if that even just really happened. Did I sincerely just see that? Now while I disagree on the front of Snoke or Rey's lineage, that did also bother me, but the lightsaber was like a punch in the gut. It might sound odd to say this, even extreme, but it actually...as a life long and die-hard fan...it kind of even hurt. It was this sickening feeling like your about to vomit. That isn't just bad storytelling. That's downright insulting on almost a personal level. That is why, to me, The Last Jedi will always be my least favorite Star Wars.

I knew something was wrong...off, let's say, during the Poe talk with Hux. Firstly, why would an imperial that high ranking give a hotshot pilot, a grunt, the time of the day? Why? It makes no military sense. From his POV, he'd be a fly buzzing around and no more. He wouldn't give him the time of day, simply just attempt immediately to swat it. Secondly, then you make Hux...formerly a downright Nazi-like military presence a downright buffoon. Hux in TFA seems like a completely different character. But then it happened...the "Yo' Momma" joke. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Firstly, that's a lazy joke. Secondly, really, in the Star Wars universe? But I let it slide...but there was immediately that concern. Oh boy, that was bad...but it's JUST starting. Let it slide. Then the lightsaber moment happened and it confirmed my fear. "Oh, it's going to be one of THOSE movies!"
 
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What you described there, MysterioMaximus, is exactly how I felt in the cinema watching TLJ... the feeling of "something's off here, but it just started.." and then getting hammered again and again with these incohesive mood-cuts (don't know if that makes any sense.. but ..). I almost laughed when Leia did her Poppins act ... and not because it was funny.

A friend of mine came to my place after, he'd already seen it and wanted to discuss it. My first words to him: What the h... did I just watch?
 
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Luke tossing the lightsaber is one of my favourite moments (and that's not me getting all hyperbolic in light of the all the dog piling on it - I loved it the first time round and I love it now). I love how it's a total mirror of A New Hope - "Your father's lightsaber..." "Wow! I'm a naive famrboy and this is the coolest thing ever! *swish*" to Rey's 'your father's lightsaber...' moment - "*toss* Don't give a ****. I've seen some things and I'm not about to indulge some stranger. Get lost."

Luke doesn't know he's in a film so he is under no obligation to treat the lightsaber as anything other than an object. The look on Rey's face is great also. You reveal your characters by presenting them with obstacles and an obtuse Luke who Rey (and the Resistance) feel represents their best hope in winning the day is as challenging as it gets and shows us how desperate Rey is. Luke reacting with ANY reverence towards the lightsaber totally undercuts how they're presenting the character - you don't show a chink in his armour immediately. You (Rey) have to earn that moment.

"Yo, momma"? Can take or leave it. Works in the context of the film as distraction technique.

'Godspeed'? I'll see you in hell.
 
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^

It's his fathers lightsaber. The "object" that started him on his life's most important journey and an item he hasn't seen since it was lost, along with his hand 30 odd years ago. It doesn't matter whether Luke knows he's in a film or not. That **** would be important to anyone.

The scene is simply awful. A terrible, terrible excuse to put in a poor joke that lands on its face, because the writer is not funny.

Incredibly bad stuff altogether.
 
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For all the deserved bad rap TLJ gets, I just don't get all the commotion about Leia Poppins. She's the child of the Chosen One, is it really that far-fetched she can instinctively reach out and pull herself towards a giant object nearby? (which is not the same as flying, there's zero G in space)

Luke had some latent Force powers before his training and they came to him in a time of dire need.
Plus, without this scene, Leia would've had next to no Force use throughout the entire film series. That feels wrong for Luke's twin, who should be his equal in power (if he hadn't trained further that is)
 
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Luke tossing the lightsaber is one of my favourite moments (and that's not me getting all hyperbolic in light of the all the dog piling on it - I loved it the first time round and I love it now). I love how it's a total mirror of A New Hope - "Your father's lightsaber..." "Wow! I'm a naive famrboy and this is the coolest thing ever! *swish*" to Rey's 'your father's lightsaber...' moment - "*toss* Don't give a ****. I've seen some things and I'm not about to indulge some stranger. Get lost."

Luke doesn't know he's in a film so he is under no obligation to treat the lightsaber as anything other than an object. The look on Rey's face is great also. You reveal your characters by presenting them with obstacles and an obtuse Luke who Rey (and the Resistance) feel represents their best hope in winning the day is as challenging as it gets and shows us how desperate Rey is. Luke reacting with ANY reverence towards the lightsaber totally undercuts how they're presenting the character - you don't show a chink in his armour immediately. You (Rey) have to earn that moment.

"Yo, momma"? Can take or leave it. Works in the context of the film as distraction technique.

'Godspeed'? I'll see you in hell.
Well put Internets....couldn't agree more.....on all points.
 
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It's his fathers lightsaber. The "object" that started him on his life's most important journey and an item he hasn't seen since it was lost, along with his hand 30 odd years ago. It doesn't matter whether Luke knows he's in a film or not. That **** would be important to anyone.

The scene is simply awful. A terrible, terrible excuse to put in a poor joke that lands on its face, because the writer is not funny.

Incredibly bad stuff altogether.
I like it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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'Godspeed'? I'll see you in hell.
Doesn't infer deity. Reference to a bad place does not infer reference to a overarching powerful figure/ character that goes totally against internally-consistent previously-established fantasy world-building = The Force.

As for Leia? So many great chances to write her out respectfully and heroically instead of leaving JJA scrabbling for cutting room remnants. Kylo held off firing and his escort TIEs killed her regardless? What a superb opportunity missed for further development of his internally-conflicted character. He'd be interesting and have somewhere to go in IX. But no, we'll use the Cottingley-fairies-style special effect. Horrific.
 
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Unfortunately, Carrie kicked the bucket after 'The Last Jedi' had been released to theatres. So, there was no way to recut the film and have Leia die, thus relieving the writer of IX from the dubious duty of having to come up with scenes for her.

I believe, though, that had Fisher died before the Dec 15th release date (and not on Dec 27th), that there would have been a good chance that the release would have been postponed and the film recut. In fact, it would have been relatively easy to do, as Fisher's on screen time is rather limited and Leia doesn't play that big a part after she gets blown out of the airlock. I've seen fan edits where the movie has been edited to portray her as dead in space and it plays out perfectly well.

Ep.XI is really in a rock and hard place concerning Carrie Fisher though. I wouldn't envy the task of making that film and having to come up with a convincing number of scenes for Leia.
 
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Carrie Fisher died on December 27th, 2016 ... nearly a year before The Last Jedi hit theaters on December 15th, 2017.
 
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Unfortunately, Carrie kicked the bucket after 'The Last Jedi' had been released to theatres. So, there was no way to recut the film and have Leia die, thus relieving the writer of IX from the dubious duty of having to come up with scenes for her.

I believe, though, that had Fisher died before the Dec 15th release date (and not on Dec 27th), that there would have been a good chance that the release would have been postponed and the film recut. In fact, it would have been relatively easy to do, as Fisher's on screen time is rather limited and Leia doesn't play that big a part after she gets blown out of the airlock. I've seen fan edits where the movie has been edited to portray her as dead in space and it plays out perfectly well.

Ep.XI is really in a rock and hard place concerning Carrie Fisher though. I wouldn't envy the task of making that film and having to come up with a convincing number of scenes for Leia.
She died a year before TLJ was released.
 
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Oh crap. Ha ha. Of course you're both correct. Wow, can't believe she's dead two years. Where the hell has all that time gone?

So, then there's no excuse.

:p
 
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Which is really telling about the movie ... and the editing,
Even with a year to release, and at least, as I recall, two big chances to edit her passing into the movie, still subverting the expectations.

I've made the analogy before; it's like that game, where 2-3 persons draw legs, torso, head in turn - Round-head could have continued what JJ started, but chose not to
 
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