TROS Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - (SPOILERS!!!)

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no. because he would only appear in this movie as a "ghost", and if the trailer/promo-shots actually showed him AS a ghost, then it would be considered a "spoiler" (and the twitter-verse would be triggered by it).
 
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People don't give the character any credit because nothing she doesn't makes any sense. She exists to drift through a non-existent story and to occupy space in some movie scenes. But there's no logic to her actions and she never feels like a real person. Maz may tell her "it's not happening", but a couple of moments later, she doesn't give a ****. The whole redundancy of the parents side issue is just discarded and thrown away, like so many things n this trilogy. It was pointless. She gets angry when Kylo "bad mouths" her family...but why? She never knew them. But these things aren't the most egregious items. There's absolutely no development with her at all. Everything she does, she does like an expert. She's brilliant at everything, she has to learn nothing, and subsequently the audience learns nothing about her.
Only continuing this because I find it an interesting discussion:
I will concede that we know nothing about Rey before TFA starts. I'm no apologist for the shortcomings of the ST and I'm not going to say I was satisfied with TFA and it's copy and paste plot, but Rey being good at stuff didn't really bother me. It was a little annoying that she knew everything about the Millennium Falcon and how to rig it and fly it to near expert levels and it was questionable that she could understand Shyriiwook and droid speak and immediately be able to access the Force when it was needed. <Point You

Let me also say that I don't think extra reading should be required to understand a movie, but the book "Before the Awakening" which came out the same day as The Force Awakens, does address this. Rey had a flight simulator and a language translator that she could access. I've taught myself several skills so I wouldn't say it is beyond her ability to learn passable languages and the ability to fly various ships, along with ship maintenance. If she was ever going to leave Jakku, she would likely need some or all of this.

She was clearly old enough to have some memory of her parents (see flashback). In TLJ she clearly still wants that connection and clearly is upset when Han dies as she hadn't had a connection like that really ever. Finn was taken away at the end of TFA and she was alone again. Luke was her 'New Hope' and she felt let down by him as well. I would argue that most can relate with this to some degree. As I said before, the force had 'always been there' but she didn't know what it was. She clearly had dabbled with some force abilities, but nothing as advanced as what Kylo showed her when he probed her mind. She already knew how to fight with a staff, so her flailing with a lightsaber I would say fits. She didn't look that great at lightsabering... When she tapped into the force at the end of her fight she clearly tapped into something powerful that allowed her to back off an injured and surprised Kylo Ren. Kylo was not aiming to kill her in that duel from what I saw. He wanted to be her teacher. (or something else...)

Why would Unkar teach her anything? She's basically his slave. That, itself, makes no sense to be honest. As for her knowing stuff, none of that feels earned by her. We never once get a satisfactory inkling of just how someone who is 20 years old and living as a scavenger on a desert planet could ever possibly be so great at all the things she does, including the Force, which she knew bugger all about when we first get introduced to her, but ends up great at that too. All of these problems could have been easily solved too. Introduce her as a Force layman. Somebody who's heard about it and has taken upon themselves to try and learn it. We could have a couple of scenes showing her trying to do stuff but failing. This lets the audience know that she's already some what familiar with it and not a blank slate which suddenly can do Jedi mind tricks 30 minutes later.

As for comparisons with Anakin, I wouldn't be holding him up as a character to be compared to, because he was just as wretched, if not more so.

Regarding explaining her in TROS, I don't really care if it does. But it might be nice to have, at least, some sort of character building for her and a couple of indications as to why she is the way she is.
All I will say about this is that they really did need to do a better job of conveying that she wasn't just a nobody. I think Luke's saber should have given her more memories than being left on Jakku. It should have triggered more than just that memory of the ship leaving. It should have triggered her time as a youngling in Luke Skywalker's Academy... now we have a story. Why did she forget that and why was she the one that survived?
 
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The ST from the outset couldn't really be anything more than "and then this happened'. Ironically with the remit being to make people forget about the prequels, the prequels should have been the template and have shown a slow rising threat of a new supreme power and a young Jedi being groomed by a Sith lord, only this time you'd end it with the good guys winning and preventing the bad guys from taking over the galaxy. I'd call that a pretty powerful 'learning from your mistakes and pass on what you have learned' theme.
The ST could have been anything. 30 years ago I was living in a small town going to high school and learning to drive. My life could have gone any number of ways at that point and I could have guessed a billion times and not guessed where I'd be now. Not sure I understand this post.

The PT was set to end a certain way... as being a Pre, meaning before, has to lead to the thing it is set before.

The EU had a blueprint... actually several that they could have followed, but they decided to write their own because reasons. I imagine they'd like a mulligan in some ways, but if they only see money then well, carry on I guess. (Except Solo, which I think is better than the reception it got and still hope for a Disney + show to extend any part of that)
 
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Only continuing this because I find it an interesting discussion:
I will concede that we know nothing about Rey before TFA starts.
However, two whole movies in and we still know nothing about her. This is because there was nothing written for he in the first place.

I have no doubt that there'll be some blarney rattled off for Ep. IX for her, but it'll only be like plugging a hole that was left gaping for too long.

I'm no apologist for the shortcomings of the ST and I'm not going to say I was satisfied with TFA and it's copy and paste plot, but Rey being good at stuff didn't really bother me. It was a little annoying that she knew everything about the Millennium Falcon and how to rig it and fly it to near expert levels and it was questionable that she could understand Shyriiwook and droid speak and immediately be able to access the Force when it was needed. <Point You

Let me also say that I don't think extra reading should be required to understand a movie, but the book "Before the Awakening" which came out the same day as The Force Awakens, does address this. Rey had a flight simulator and a language translator that she could access. I've taught myself several skills so I wouldn't say it is beyond her ability to learn passable languages and the ability to fly various ships, along with ship maintenance. If she was ever going to leave Jakku, she would likely need some or all of this.
The issue with characters knowing everything (especially at such a tender age) is that the audience needs some information as to how that character knows the things that they can do in the story they're in. Otherwise those characters won't feel authentic. This can, and often is, handled with a little bit of expository dialogue. We don't really get that, at least not in a satisfactory way, with Rey, because 'The Force Awakens' is hinged on the audience being familiar with Luke's story in the original films. So, Abrams etc, just played it lazy. However, this just makes his central character look ridiculous as she overcomes everything with absurd ease, leaving everyone around her looking like numpties. So, while Daisy is nice in a sort of "jolly hockey sticks" kind of way, she never feels like a real person, even in a Star Wars context.

Now, this may have been "rescued" in books and whatnot, but it is not in the film and that alone is a damning indictment of just how badly the screenplays for Diswars have been. I agree completely that people shouldn't have to read a crappy novel to fill in the gaps for a badly made film. But, Disney only went that route because a lot of people were, quite rightly, asking questions as to how exactly all of this could come about. In other words, they fumbled the ball and tossed it to somebody else when things started to look bad.

Unfortunately, what fans are left with now is a badly made film that becomes more and more unsatisfying as time goes on, due to its shortcomings and lazy approach.

She was clearly old enough to have some memory of her parents (see flashback). In TLJ she clearly still wants that connection and clearly is upset when Han dies as she hadn't had a connection like that really ever. Finn was taken away at the end of TFA and she was alone again. Luke was her 'New Hope' and she felt let down by him as well. I would argue that most can relate with this to some degree. As I said before, the force had 'always been there' but she didn't know what it was. She clearly had dabbled with some force abilities, but nothing as advanced as what Kylo showed her when he probed her mind. She already knew how to fight with a staff, so her flailing with a lightsaber I would say fits. She didn't look that great at lightsabering... When she tapped into the force at the end of her fight she clearly tapped into something powerful that allowed her to back off an injured and surprised Kylo Ren. Kylo was not aiming to kill her in that duel from what I saw. He wanted to be her teacher. (or something else...)
We don't know this. It isn't in the movies. She simply states that something "has always been there..." but there's no indication that she's done anything forcey, until she does a Jedi mind trick out of nowhere on Daniel Craig. That could have been done easily with a little scene in her AT AT home. Establish her as someone who knows she has a few special talents, but show her as flawed and failing to be able to use them successfully. That way, when it comes time for her to be successful, the audience will be behind her more. Having her get out of jail by doing something out of the blue is just awful writing, especially when the writer went out of his way to show the audience that she had no idea what the Force is or even who Luke Skywalker was.

There are ways to make these characters work and it doesn't really take much for a Star Wars charater. But, they don't work because the writing, so far, has just been terrible.

All I will say about this is that they really did need to do a better job of conveying that she wasn't just a nobody. I think Luke's saber should have given her more memories than being left on Jakku. It should have triggered more than just that memory of the ship leaving. It should have triggered her time as a youngling in Luke Skywalker's Academy... now we have a story. Why did she forget that and why was she the one that survived?[/QUOTE]

I'd be fine with her being a nobody. Not everyone has to be a Skywalker. But there still needs to logic applied, even within a single film in a series. In EP. IX, we'll probably get some tacked on afterthought as to who she's supposed to be. But I cannot imagine that it will salve the issues of the trilogy thus far.
 
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However, two whole movies in and we still know nothing about her. This is because there was nothing written for he in the first place.

I have no doubt that there'll be some blarney rattled off for Ep. IX for her, but it'll only be like plugging a hole that was left gaping for too long.

The issue with characters knowing everything (especially at such a tender age) is that the audience needs some information as to how that character knows the things that they can do in the story they're in. Otherwise those characters won't feel authentic. This can, and often is, handled with a little bit of expository dialogue. We don't really get that, at least not in a satisfactory way, with Rey, because 'The Force Awakens' is hinged on the audience being familiar with Luke's story in the original films. So, Abrams etc, just played it lazy. However, this just makes his central character look ridiculous as she overcomes everything with absurd ease, leaving everyone around her looking like numpties. So, while Daisy is nice in a sort of "jolly hockey sticks" kind of way, she never feels like a real person, even in a Star Wars context.
I don't think we were supposed to know too much about her... that was kind of the whole point to the first movie. The SCAVENGER that resisted the mighty Kylo Ren. The NOBODY that got pulled into a great adventure and learned about herself in the process. I agree that showing (actually in the movie) any hint of where she got this knowledge may have helped the story and eased some minds that didn't feel she earned her power.

I had more of a problem with Finn's story than Rey. A sanitation stormtrooper? That knows how to do EVERYTHING on a starship including understanding the schematics of Starkiller base? And they send him to take down shields without even asking him how he knows or what he did in the FO? It's like asking the Janitor to run diagnostics on the Server..... but we probably don't want to go there :)

Now, this may have been "rescued" in books and whatnot, but it is not in the film and that alone is a damning indictment of just how badly the screenplays for Diswars have been. I agree completely that people shouldn't have to read a crappy novel to fill in the gaps for a badly made film. But, Disney only went that route because a lot of people were, quite rightly, asking questions as to how exactly all of this could come about. In other words, they fumbled the ball and tossed it to somebody else when things started to look bad.

Unfortunately, what fans are left with now is a badly made film that becomes more and more unsatisfying as time goes on, due to its shortcomings and lazy approach.
The book came out on the exact same day as the movie, so I'd say the book information is what was planned for the character... they just didn't do a good job of portraying it. They didn't want us to know that Rey had Jedi powers even though pretty much everyone expected it. With LEIA though............. They REALLY needed to have a short scene with her floating a datapad into her hand or something that showed she had done any sort of force training, because when she flies through space out of nowhere, I was done with that movie from that point on. I couldn't recover.

We don't know this. It isn't in the movies. She simply states that something "has always been there..." but there's no indication that she's done anything forcey, until she does a Jedi mind trick out of nowhere on Daniel Craig. That could have been done easily with a little scene in her AT AT home. Establish her as someone who knows she has a few special talents, but show her as flawed and failing to be able to use them successfully. That way, when it comes time for her to be successful, the audience will be behind her more. Having her get out of jail by doing something out of the blue is just awful writing, especially when the writer went out of his way to show the audience that she had no idea what the Force is or even who Luke Skywalker was.

There are ways to make these characters work and it doesn't really take much for a Star Wars charater. But, they don't work because the writing, so far, has just been terrible.

I'd be fine with her being a nobody. Not everyone has to be a Skywalker. But there still needs to logic applied, even within a single film in a series. In EP. IX, we'll probably get some tacked on afterthought as to who she's supposed to be. But I cannot imagine that it will salve the issues of the trilogy thus far.
I'm expecting clone.

I don't think we are on opposite sides, I just look at it as half full and you seem to be saying it's empty due to all the holes. TLJ was amazingly bad. Rey didn't get developed much beyond gathering some small nuggets of wisdom from Luke. I'll give you lazy writing in TFA.
 
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I still think Rey is the daughter of Luke, Luke put her existence out of his life to protect her from Kylo. but, who is her mother? (never, in Disney's lifetime, Mara Jade!) Maybe, as for the instant know-how of everything, that the Force Ghosts of Han, Luke, Yoda and others are secretly instructing her or inhabiting her at the right moment! Or... this is the way Disney wants to rewrite the trilogy and thinks fans won't notice.(is that too derogatory?)
 
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I had more of a problem with Finn's story than Rey.
Finn's story is just stupid. He's one of the worst characters in Star Wars.

The book came out on the exact same day as the movie
Still not in the film though, and the vast majority of people aren't going to reading the novels or comics. But, still, this kind of simple character building needs to be in the films.

With LEIA though............. They REALLY needed to have a short scene with her floating a datapad into her hand or something that showed she had done any sort of force training, because when she flies through space out of nowhere, I was done with that movie from that point on. I couldn't recover.
If I recall correctly what I heard, that scene was placed there upon the insistence of Kathleen Kennedy. I don't know how true that is, but in any case, it remains one of the most idiotic scenes that I have ever seen in a Star Wars film. Or any film. I really couldn't believe what I was watching. Terrible, terrible, stuff. But 'The Last Jedi' jumps off a cliff the minute Luke tosses his sabre. After that, it's almost a parody. I think I put my head in my hands with that meta 'Hardware Wars' reference. The entire thing is just tone deaf.

I don't think we are on opposite sides, I just look at it as half full and you seem to be saying it's empty due to all the holes. TLJ was amazingly bad. Rey didn't get developed much beyond gathering some small nuggets of wisdom from Luke. I'll give you lazy writing in TFA.
No, it's not opposite sides. But yeh, it's still only a half, no matter how it's cut, full or empty...and at this stage I just think the whole thing is unsalvageable really. If it wasn't for 'Rogue One' and the potential that 'The Mandalorian' shows. I'd be gone.
 
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I still think Rey is the daughter of Luke, Luke put her existence out of his life to protect her from Kylo. but, who is her mother? (never, in Disney's lifetime, Mara Jade!) Maybe, as for the instant know-how of everything, that the Force Ghosts of Han, Luke, Yoda and others are secretly instructing her or inhabiting her at the right moment! Or... this is the way Disney wants to rewrite the trilogy and thinks fans won't notice.(is that too derogatory?)

I always thought she was his daughter. I thought it would have been interesting to have Luke as her father and Jyn Erso as her mother, but after they killed off Jyn in RO, that theory of mine was shot to h$ll. Anyway, at this point I don't really care any more.
 
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A big swerve could be she was clones from Palpatine. Who knows? Staying spoiler free until i see it.
 
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A big swerve could be she was clones from Palpatine. Who knows? Staying spoiler free until i see it.
That theory floated for a while around TFA and I kind of liked it, because the way she uses the lightsaber certainly mimicks the way Palps did. Thin, yes, but it's explained a lot better in a YT video somewhere, than what I can dish out with my simple english.
 
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The book came out on the exact same day as the movie, so I'd say the book information is what was planned for the character... they just didn't do a good job of portraying it. They didn't want us to know that Rey had Jedi powers even though pretty much everyone expected it. With LEIA though............. They REALLY needed to have a short scene with her floating a datapad into her hand or something that showed she had done any sort of force training, because when she flies through space out of nowhere, I was done with that movie from that point on. I couldn't recover.
Under no circumstances should any viewer of any movie or TV show ever have to go to the comic book, graphic novel or novelization to understand what's happening in a movie. That would be like editing "Gone With the Wind" down to 90 minutes and telling viewers to read the book.

Finn had always bothered me, especially turning him into a turd joke. Until this thread, I never considered how unabashedly stupid it was to say that he was a Sanitation Trooper, apparently the only one in the history of Star Wars. Despite his sanitation duties, he's somehow also cleared for military operations. And where else except for Finn is there a single Stormtrooper who's trained as anything other than a Stormtrooper? It's some of the most horribly awful writing in a pair of movies plagued by some of the most astonishingly bad writing in the history of major blockbusters.
 
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My son was the first person to tell me about how I should read the books in order to understand the movie or read the books,comics after the movie to understand it! I think it's just a way to make more money aside from the movie revenue. I heard that in RoS, they don't use Holochrons for info, but that other gadget, Disney wants to set it's own Star Wars vocabulary, maybe simplify the characters too, Finn, the sanitation trooper ! Rey, the instant Jedi-no training required! I liked Finn and now heard somewhere he could associated with Lando Calrissian.(son?) This upcoming movie will be the last of the new Star Wars shows I see, end of an era. Will wait to see if there'll be a 50th Anniversary Cele.(like Star Trek!)
 
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I can't wait for John Boyega to spill his beans, seems like he's got a lot to say, which he can't at the moment :)
 
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I don't think Boyega will say **** all. With the way Disney are sweeping up media extensions left, right and centre, he'd be wise to keep his gob shut too, if he wants any future work. The mouse has his fingers in a lot of different pies.
 
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I'm looking forward to this as well. They really messed up his character.
I like John, I sincerely do. I really like him. In fact, I think he's got a lot of dramatic power. He can be a fantastic actor. But keep in mind one thing He's young. Very young. He can't just do a tell all like, say, Mark Hamill can. If he did that now, his career would be ruined. But I do believe he ABSOLUTELY has had issues with the SW scripts. He's definitely implied it. But I'm with CellBlock, with the way Disney is Monopolizing, him having such a new and budding career, his best course is to tread lightly for...well...years. It'll come out eventually, but has to at the right time and organically instead of bitterly.
 
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If I recall correctly what I heard, that scene was placed there upon the insistence of Kathleen Kennedy. I don't know how true that is, but in any case, it remains one of the most idiotic scenes that I have ever seen in a Star Wars film. Or any film. I really couldn't believe what I was watching. Terrible, terrible, stuff. But 'The Last Jedi' jumps off a cliff the minute Luke tosses his sabre. After that, it's almost a parody. I think I put my head in my hands with that meta 'Hardware Wars' reference. The entire thing is just tone deaf.

No, it's not opposite sides. But yeh, it's still only a half, no matter how it's cut, full or empty...and at this stage I just think the whole thing is unsalvageable really. If it wasn't for 'Rogue One' and the potential that 'The Mandalorian' shows. I'd be gone.
I can see a sliver of hope still. If TFA had done a couple small things it would have been more widely accepted by certain fans. Rey did need a little more backstory and more struggle. I think if we were TOLD she had jedi powers it changes the entire movie, so I'm ok with them withholding that. I think my idea with her remembering more of her past in the flashback might have helped. Finn should never have been a sanitation worker and should have been more awkward and fish-out-of-water for a sheltered stormtrooper since birth. Him being willing to take them to Starkiller base was heroic enough. Someone else could have been able to diagnose the plans and come up with a way to 'blow it up because there's always a way to do that'. That would have been a great time to introduce Rose and her sister Paige. Then her death and Rose's existence would have made more sense and actually made you feel something. She's an 'analyst' instead of a lowly 'tech'. You could still have had the 'we'll use the force' line which was actually kind of funny, and even the 'trash compactor?' line... which every stormtrooper would likely know where to put their trash.

TLJ needs WAY more help, but if you watch Ivan Ortega's edit, you see that Poe doesn't make a 'yo mama' joke, Luke doesn't throw the saber, Leia doesn't fly, Ackbar makes the sacrifice, and Rey gets some actual training.

I think TROS can give Rey a better backstory. I think TROS can return some dignity to Finn and Poe. I think Palpatine is a nostalgia grab, but it could work. I'd give it asteroid field navigation odds, but I'm thinking I'll be watching some Mandalorian, so I may not care either.
 
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Under no circumstances should any viewer of any movie or TV show ever have to go to the comic book, graphic novel or novelization to understand what's happening in a movie. That would be like editing "Gone With the Wind" down to 90 minutes and telling viewers to read the book.

Finn had always bothered me, especially turning him into a turd joke. Until this thread, I never considered how unabashedly stupid it was to say that he was a Sanitation Trooper, apparently the only one in the history of Star Wars. Despite his sanitation duties, he's somehow also cleared for military operations. And where else except for Finn is there a single Stormtrooper who's trained as anything other than a Stormtrooper? It's some of the most horribly awful writing in a pair of movies plagued by some of the most astonishingly bad writing in the history of major blockbusters.
Yes, this is exactly the kind of dumb stuff that turns me off from a movie. He mentions how he was taken as a young child to be trained as a trooper. How the hell did he wind up doing sanitation on Starkiller Base? Who steals children just to have them do some menial job like sanitation that they could just pay literally anyone to do? The whole point is to brainwash and condition them as children.

They were so hell bent on making a dumb joke that they didn't care about how ridiculous the whole premise of it was.

It's a shame because I think John Boyega is a pretty good actor. I thought he did a decent job with what was given to him script-wise.
 
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I'm going to see it then react accordingly. Thats what fair reviewers do. Sure I didn't like everything....but there was some good stuff in there.
 
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They really had an interesting idea with Finn , and then decided to make him a clown. I love Boyega, but man, Finn is grating. A Stormtrooper trying to redeem himself sounds incredibly compelling, and we got, like...none of that. I had hoped TLJ would be more of Finn and Poe together, helping him find his place in a somewhat hostile environment. But nope. Goofball bumbling about in his leaky suit and then heads out on a pointless sidequest. Such wasted potential for both character and actor.
 
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A Stormtrooper trying to redeem himself sounds incredibly compelling, and we got, like...none of that.
That whole aspect of his character should have been a major part of the trilogy. Instead, everyone was like, "Wow, you were a Stormtrooper. Cool! And we totally trust you!!! And now we've completely forgotten about it!"
 
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Finn was my favorite of the new characters after TFA.

TLJ happened...
 
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Finn should never have been a sanitation worker and should have been more awkward and fish-out-of-water for a sheltered stormtrooper since birth.
Finn is a wretched character. He's the Jar Jar of the sequels. Worse than that, his character basically ends as soon as he defects and he get relegated comedy black guy. He becomes an Uncle Tomfoolery trope.

What he should have been, first and foremost, is played by Oscar Issac and been a broody 20 year veteran who's done some really questionable actions in the service of the First Order. Give him a set of realistic reason to want to go over to the other side, instead of him just turning chicken in his first engagement <- which is an utterly ridiculous idea in the first place. Finn should have to do some serious adjustment to life outside of his paramilitary existence and with the help of Rey, he succeeds. As you say, there's real potential for some fish out of water scenes there.

Boyega is just too goody two shoes for the part. I simply cannot see him as someone who's fought for 20 years in an organisation like the First Order. He takes off his helmet and becomes a stupid buffoon. "I'm in charge now Phasma..." Fkn 'ell, that was bloody awful. He'd be much better as the hot shot Rebellion pilot. Cocky and self assured, but likeable all the same.

TLJ needs WAY more help, but if you watch Ivan Ortega's edit, you see that Poe doesn't make a 'yo mama' joke, Luke doesn't throw the saber, Leia doesn't fly, Ackbar makes the sacrifice, and Rey gets some actual training.
I've seen several fan edits of both 'The Force Awakens' and 'The Last Jedi' and while they excise the most egregious parts of both films, in the end it doesn't matter because they are still crippled by their inbuilt problems. It ends up just being lipstick on a pig.

I think TROS can give Rey a better backstory. I think TROS can return some dignity to Finn and Poe. I think Palpatine is a nostalgia grab, but it could work. I'd give it asteroid field navigation odds, but I'm thinking I'll be watching some Mandalorian, so I may not care either.[/QUOTE]

Palpatine shows just how desperate Disney are with these sequels. It's an appalling idea (no matter how it plays out) and one I'd have scoffed at even when I was an 8 year old playing my own Star Wars stories. I cannot believe that they thought bringing him back and having wreckage of the Death Star involved were good ideas. It remains astonishing really.

But, like you, I am more eagerly awaiting 'The Mandalorian'. The new trailer has really piqued my interested. If Disney have learned their lesson from the sequel debacle and move forward in a better way, then I suppose it'll be worth it in the end. The good thing is that I never have to watch the sequel trilogy again, just like I never have to look at the prequels again. If Disney can expand the universe with other stories that make sense, that will suit me enough.

The problem is that Disney are absolute clueless as to how to proceed with this thing. They finally have this prize, which they foolishly passed over in 1976, and they have no idea what to do with it.
 
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Finn is a wretched character. He's the Jar Jar of the sequels. Worse than that, his character basically ends as soon as he defects and he get relegated comedy black guy.

What he should have been, first and foremost, is played by Oscar Issac and been a broody 20 year veteran who's done some really questionable actions in the service of the First Order. Give him a set of realistic reason to want to go over to the other side, instead of him just turning chicken in his first engagement <- which is an utterly ridiculous idea in the first place. Finn should have to do some serious adjustment to life outside of his paramilitary existence and with the help of Rey, he succeeds. As you say, there's real potential for some fish out of water scenes there.

Boyega is just too goody two shoes for the part. I simply cannot see him as someone who's fought for 20 years in an organisation like the First Order. He takes off his helmet and becomes a stupid buffoon. "I'm in charge now Phasma..." Fkn 'ell, that was bloody awful. He'd be much better as the hot shot Rebellion pilot. Cocky and self assured, but likeable all the same.
It's funny that a friend of mine said exactly the same thing. Poe being the ex-stormtrooper would have been interesting. They needed someone with at least a little bit of military decorum in that role and Boyega, while very likable as a person, was not that. I think Boyega would have killed it as the cocky pilot. The prequels were pretty bad in the dialogue department and somehow this one got worse. Finn's dialogue was particularly cringey... take your pick between the "That's one hell of a pilot" and "Oh, they hate that ship"... shudder.

I've seen several fan edits of both 'The Force Awakens' and 'The Last Jedi' and while they excise the most egregious parts of both films, in the end it doesn't matter because they are still crippled by their inbuilt problems. It ends up just being lipstick on a pig.

Palpatine shows just how desperate Disney are with these sequels. It's an appalling idea (no matter how it plays out) and one I'd have scoffed at even when I was an 8 year old playing my own Star Wars stories. I cannot believe that they thought bringing him back and having wreckage of the Death Star involved were good ideas. It remains astonishing really.

But, like you, I am more eagerly awaiting 'The Mandalorian'. The new trailer has really piqued my interested. If Disney have learned their lesson from the sequel debacle and move forward in a better way, then I suppose it'll be worth it in the end. The good thing is that I never have to watch the sequel trilogy again, just like I never have to look at the prequels again. If Disney can expand the universe with other stories that make sense, that will suit me enough.

The problem is that Disney are absolute clueless as to how to proceed with this thing. They finally have this prize, which they foolishly passed over in 1976, and they have no idea what to do with it.
I have to agree that since I've read pretty much the entirety of the EU I can sweep this trilogy under the rug, so it will eventually be like 'Return to Oz', Grease 2, or Road House 2: Road Housier <(ok I gave that last one a weird subtitle, but Roadhouse 2 is a thing)... you may know it exists, but you don't let it take away from the greatness of the original.

Stick closer to the EU material and I think they'll be fine. I'm not saying they need a 'Glove of Darth Vader' movie, but there is no reason they can't use Darth Krayt or Knights of the Old Republic to make a great movie or 2. There are a million smaller movies they could do as well. Quinlan Vos and his story from Republic Comics, Zayne Carrick vs. the Jedi Covenant, Wraith Squadron.... the list goes on.
 
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In all honesty I don't think we really don't needed Leia to use the Force prior to her space flight, it should have been common knowledge that she at least had rudimentary knowledge of the Force and was likely taught the basics by Luke. Though probably only used it here and there, the same way she did in the EU. So it shouldn't be a stretch for her to display powers of some kind.
However, i do feel that her flying across space was done in the wrong way. If they had done it in a way so that it looked like she simply pulled herself to the ship, or even enclosed herself into a force bubble until help arrived would have looked better.

Finn had always bothered me, especially turning him into a turd joke. Until this thread, I never considered how unabashedly stupid it was to say that he was a Sanitation Trooper, apparently the only one in the history of Star Wars. Despite his sanitation duties, he's somehow also cleared for military operations. And where else except for Finn is there a single Stormtrooper who's trained as anything other than a Stormtrooper?
This was something that had always bothered me, but never really though it worth the effort to address with so much else wrong. I just assume the FO was so shorthanded that they conscripted random personal to active duty. Another odd thing was how knowledgeable he seemed to be when situation warranted it, yet he says that he was only in sanitation when Han ask. You don't know anything about the systems/shield, but you knew about the base and its capabilities enough to warm the Rebellion. Same thing happened in TLJ, but Han wants his help he says I don't know. lol

His character didn't seem to jive much.
 
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See one of the things that bothers me most about both the PT and the ST is that you have SO much potential. I mean, the acting abilities on most (not all) of these folks is profound. And yet you give them THAT script? Finn had so much potential and frankly, IMO, he was good in TFA. Mostly. But I don't remotely blame John for what happened to the character. It's not his fault. And he seems to know it. Imply it. He just can't SAY it.
 
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Interesting choice of words.
Oh no! Are you offended by the use of an age old typically black [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]colloquialism[/FONT] when innocently describing a black character?
 
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Yeah, I didn't really think about the term and who I was talking about until after I posted.
 
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They really had an interesting idea with Finn , and then decided to make him a clown. I love Boyega, but man, Finn is grating. A Stormtrooper trying to redeem himself sounds incredibly compelling, and we got, like...none of that. I had hoped TLJ would be more of Finn and Poe together, helping him find his place in a somewhat hostile environment. But nope. Goofball bumbling about in his leaky suit and then heads out on a pointless sidequest. Such wasted potential for both character and actor.

I very much agree with your post. I thought the idea of hsi character was a great concept, but like you said, we didn't get any of the meat of it at all, in either film.


That whole aspect of his character should have been a major part of the trilogy. Instead, everyone was like, "Wow, you were a Stormtrooper. Cool! And we totally trust you!!! And now we've completely forgotten about it!"
I love this quote because it sums up what they did with Finn perfectly.......................sadly.
 
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Yeah, I didn't really think about the term and who I was talking about until after I posted.
It's a harmless phrase. Carry on using it. The problem is not yours but those who seek to find implied and/ or double meaning that was self-evidently not there.

1984 was a clever work of fiction, not a fecking manual.
 
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"Jibe" is the word he was looking for. "Jive" means something entirely different. While "jive" is commonly used to mean "jibe" in conversation, they're actually not interchangeable.

I assumed he knew what word he was using. My mistake.
 
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I can not believe the level of ignorance demonstrated by some of the posters on this form...but then again I am very well acquainted with some of them. Particularly those proficient in double speak.

Regardless, the ST is looking to be an absolute stellar addition to the SW saga. Keep them coming KK. You're doing a great job. Fantastic visuals, excellent characterization and seamless dialogue. Not to mention iconic and definitive Jedi Master Rey. Much of which blows the OT out of the park. Hopefully the Mandalorian will restore the reputation of bounty hunters after they were made a laughing stock by Bozo Fett.

If any post ever deserved infinite 'likes' it would be this.
 
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"Jibe" is the word he was looking for. "Jive" means something entirely different. While "jive" is commonly used to mean "jibe" in conversation, they're actually not interchangeable.

I assumed he knew what word he was using. My mistake.
Ha! Who would have thought that 'b' was next to 'v' on a keyboard too.

I guess the other comment (not yours) I'm ignoring above has some kind of humour-devoid pontificating or another dropped e-turd in it.
 
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"Jibe" is the word he was looking for. "Jive" means something entirely different. While "jive" is commonly used to mean "jibe" in conversation, they're actually not interchangeable.

I assumed he knew what word he was using. My mistake.
He knew exactly what word he was using and he used it correctly.
Jibe is originally a nautical term and more recently a taunt.
Jive can mean the dance or as a verb means agree with.

He meant Finn's actions did not "agree with" his character.

He used it correctly. It's not his fault you were offended by it.
 
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