Sila Kott death and Battle of Endor space battle in general

[ZevSenesca]

I want to make sure I'm understanding how this scene plays out. When Lando says, "Watch yourself, Wedge. Three from above," Wedge says, "Red Three, Red Two, pull in" and it cuts to Sila Kott's cockpit where she says (dubbed by a man): "Got it!" There are two TIE Interceptors preying on her in the background of the shot. It cuts to an outside view where the TIE Interceptors take down what is presumably her A-Wing seconds later. So boom, she's dead. What did Lando's comment to Wedge have anything to do with what Wedge then said to Red Three and Red Two (Kott) and in turn what good was that command if Sila Kott "got it" only to die a second later? Then shortly thereafter Wedge tells another pilot "Good shot, Red Two" even though Sila Kott is identified in the dialog and the screenplay as being Red Two. Mainly what I'm getting at is that as technically cool as the Battle of Endor space battle is, it feels cut together randomly. The Battle of Yavin isn't as technically impressive but the characters really feel like they're working together in that battle. Here it just feels like chaos. Maybe that's because it's supposed to feel that way since they are caught off guard by the shield being up. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this.

 

[Rushie]

I never paid too much attention to callsigns and their matching names and faces, so I'm surprised to learn that Red Two and Three are A-Wings in RotJ, as opposed to X-Wings. That said, Wookieepedia says that Sila Kott is Red Three, not Two. She basically responds to Wedge's command to lead away the incoming TIEs, but is shot down soon after. Supposedly, her callsign was listed as Red Two on the official databank, but does the movie give her either of these callsigns?

 

[ZevSenesca]

I never paid too much attention to callsigns and their matching names and faces, so I'm surprised to learn that Red Two and Three are A-Wings in RotJ, as opposed to X-Wings. That said, Wookieepedia says that Sila Kott is Red Three, not Two. She basically responds to Wedge's command to lead away the incoming TIEs, but is shot down soon after. Supposedly, her callsign was listed as Red Two on the official databank, but does the movie give her either of these callsigns?

In the screenplay and novelization, the pilot who says, "Got it!" is identified as Red Two.

 

[djcos25]

To make matters more confusing, her figure that was released had her call-sign as Red Three. I always assumed she was Red Three anyway, with the Y-wing pilot being Red Two ("Good shot Red Two!"). The Y-wing pilot however, is Gray Leader. The Endor battle is just cut up randomly, and might have been an oversight in post-production.

It reminds me of the Yavin battle. The line "Red Six can you see Red Five?" and someone responds. However Red Six (Porkins) is dead at this point. In-canon, maybe whoever responded didn't know Porkins was dead (doubt it) or someone else just decided to answer. Most likely an oversight again in post-production.

 

[bob_solo]

It's funny, but I noticed that little slip-up years ago. You can clearly seethe TIE Interceptor behind her right before shooting her - and there isn't another A-Wing in the shot. I'm guessing just a simple editing issue that either no one caught, or people figured it happens so fast, no one will notice. Likely no one did until the video release, and even then, after multiple viewings.

 

[ZevSenesca]

It's funny, but I noticed that little slip-up years ago. You can clearly seethe TIE Interceptor behind her right before shooting her - and there isn't another A-Wing in the shot. I'm guessing just a simple editing issue that either no one caught, or people figured it happens so fast, no one will notice. Likely no one did until the video release, and even then, after multiple viewings.

Yeah, obviously A New Hope had editing issues during the space battle too. The aforementioned "Red Six, can you see Red Five?" issue being one and Red Ten's death clearly being depicted by another pilot's death (very likely the pilot who was in the X-Wing shot down right before him who we never see that has an awkward jump cut during its explosion) being another but this one in ROTJ seems more... confusing than any of that.

 

[Real_Scooby]

This mught have been discussed already, but just recently when watching another marathon, it suddenly hit me

Considering release order, I just realized that all the STAR WARS could have ended ten minutes into ANH already. I now wonder why the heck, that one gunner wouldn't use the droids escape pod just for target practicing, instead of let it pass

 

[ZevSenesca]

This mught have been discussed already, but just recently when watching another marathon, it suddenly hit me

Considering release order, I just realized that all the STAR WARS could have ended ten minutes into ANH already. I now wonder why the heck, that one gunner wouldn't use the droids escape pod just for target practicing, instead of let it pass

FAMILY GUY made a joke about this in BLUE HARVEST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLJTgvKFZoQ

 

[Cobalt60]

he was prioritizing his targets.
the line "there goes Another one" implies there were lots of escape pods being launched; not just one.
so he had to pick his targets.

it would have been better for the narrative, to show more than one pod being launched at a time -- maybe even ten at once.
the ones with life-forms would get destroyed, and the one(s) without life forms, have the lowest priority.


(short answer): the narrative suffered from the low budget. we should have seen more escape pods.

 

[ThallJoben]

I think it was ridiculous to have a female pilot in ROTJ, and then have her dubbed with a man's voice. I get that it may have been done for technical reasons (like a lot of dubbing in films), but it was still misleading. When first seeing the film years ago, I didn't think much of this - but then in later viewings, the "man" did look a little "off". Once I found out this was a female & that the voice was dubbed, it made more sense.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

I mean at the end of the day, almost every film, in order for it to occur, there has to be a laps in logic. Plus it's not like people don't make stupid decisions/mistakes in real life anyway. I can let the officer not shooting down the escape pod go.

 

[ZevSenesca]

I think it was ridiculous to have a female pilot in ROTJ, and then have her dubbed with a man's voice. I get that it may have been done for technical reasons (like a lot of dubbing in films), but it was still misleading. When first seeing the film years ago, I didn't think much of this - but then in later viewings, the "man" did look a little "off". Once I found out this was a female & that the voice was dubbed, it made more sense.

There were two other female pilots in addition to Sila Kott whose parts were filmed and left on the cutting room floor. I wonder why the decision was made to scale back on female pilots in the final cut (and dub over the one they left in with a man's voice). Were they afraid of backlash from the fanbase in 1983 over feminizing Star Wars too much?

 

[bigbarada]

There were two other female pilots in addition to Sila Kott whose parts were filmed and left on the cutting room floor. I wonder why the decision was made to scale back on female pilots in the final cut (and dub over the one they left in with a man's voice). Were they afraid of backlash from the fanbase in 1983 over feminizing Star Wars too much?

The political climate that exists today didn't exist back in 1983 (where people are searching desperately for new things to get offended by every day). So I doubt it was a fear of backlash. It could just have been a matter of the toy line, since Star Wars was a toy juggernaut by then and maybe Lucas didn't feel that boys would be as interested in buying the A-Wing and A-Wing Pilot toys if that pilot was a female. It wouldn't have been the only decision made in ROTJ where the storytelling took a back seat to toy sales. Or maybe they just felt that the female voiced pilot drew too much attention to herself at the expense of the story. Of course, people today are going to blame "mysoginy" or some other similar nonsense, but I think there is a much more logical explanation.

 

[ZevSenesca]

I did find some dailies of Vivienne Chandler running lines for her part as a rebel pilot in ROTJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm8P7NgSz0M

 

[Oofa]

well.. lots of pilots got cut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHnhxHMJcJ4

 

[bob_solo]

The political climate that exists today didn't exist back in 1983 (where people are searching desperately for new things to get offended by every day). So I doubt it was a fear of backlash. It could just have been a matter of the toy line, since Star Wars was a toy juggernaut by then and maybe Lucas didn't feel that boys would be as interested in buying the A-Wing and A-Wing Pilot toys if that pilot was a female. It wouldn't have been the only decision made in ROTJ where the storytelling took a back seat to toy sales. Or maybe they just felt that the female voiced pilot drew too much attention to herself at the expense of the story. Of course, people today are going to blame "mysoginy" or some other similar nonsense, but I think there is a much more logical explanation.

Not to mention, if Lucas took a lot of his inspiration from actual air battles, in those days, it would have been extremely rare for there to be female combat pilots compared to today. It was still more accepted that mostly men fought in combat. This is also what made Leia stand out so much more as a character and strong female role model.