S3 TCW #14 - WITCHES OF THE MIST - 01/21/11

Chris Wyman

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The Clone Wars Episode Guide: Witches of the Mist

"The path to evil may bring great power, but not loyalty."

Synopsis: Anakin and Obi-Wan, sent to track down the mysterious figure behind the deaths of several Jedi, soon find themselves on the trail of the monstrous apprentice that Ventress has created: Savage Opress. However, Dooku and Ventress also discover that this new apprentice has a will of his own...

Director: Giancarlo Volpe
Writer: Katie Lucas
Key Characters: Savage Opress, Asajj Ventress, Count Dooku, Mother Talzin, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, Brother Viscus, King Katuunko
Key Locales: Dathomir, Toydaria, Coruscant



Kyle Newman and Paul Bateman join us for a Savage Opress-sized edition of the roundtable as we look at Clone Wars episodes: Nightsisters, Monster, and Witches of the Mist, aka The Nightsisters Trilogy.

Click here to listen!

Panelists:
Jason Swank
Jimmy Mac
Kyle Newman
Paul Batemen
 
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The revealed secret in this episode has been plaguing me since the screening. I can't wait to discuss it once everyone sees this episode.
 
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Womp said:
The revealed secret in this episode has been plaguing me since the screening. I can't wait to discuss it once everyone sees this episode.
just 9 hours left to wait!


I couldn't go to a screening so it feels like its been a year long wait to see these episodes.
 
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Wookie_inked said:
Womp said:
The revealed secret in this episode has been plaguing me since the screening. I can't wait to discuss it once everyone sees this episode.
just 9 hours left to wait!


I couldn't go to a screening so it feels like its been a year long wait to see these episodes.
I have to wait until Saturday morning for the torrent to go up; this is killing me!
 
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Womp said:
The revealed secret in this episode has been plaguing me since the screening. I can't wait to discuss it once everyone sees this episode.
You got that right!
 
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I didn't have a screening within my area, I can't wait to see this come to an end, but a friend dropped a hint that it was just mind blowing...
 
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Can't WAIT to see this tonight!! There's been a ton of hype building up to this episode, so I hope the twist/revelation/secret delivers.
 
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Great episode! So much happened, and so much still has to happen. Absolutely great! Just wish Star Wars Insider hadn't spoiled the ending.

One question: Why did Savage think Ventress betrayed him?
 
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They did a great job of convincing me of the contrivance of a brother.... but this ?!

Come on Katie you can do it!
Write us into belief!!
 
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Sheldon said:
Whoa - is you know who really alive!?

How!?!?!
I have a theory that emcompasses future episodes. I'm waiting to discuss it after the general public here has seen the secret revealed.
 
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grievousfan91 said:
One question: Why did Savage think Ventress betrayed him?
My assumption was that he lied. He made it back first and didn't know if she was even alive.

or...

He assumed that her condescension during the fight with Dooku was a betrayal.
 
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starshark said:
I wonder why "The Secret" was exiled to the outer rim...hmmm
That's the question, and what's been going on all this time as well? And what's Talzin's angle in all this?

I'm glad everyone (mostly) else is caught up with the handful of us who saw these events unfold a month and a half ago. Let the speculation for what's to come begin!
 
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Womp said:
Sheldon said:
Whoa - is you know who really alive!?

How!?!?!
I have a theory that emcompasses future episodes. I'm waiting to discuss it after the general public here has seen the secret revealed.

Perfect - I knew the Womp would come through!!
But I gotta wait!?
 
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Admiral_Adama said:
And what's Talzin's angle in all this?
I've suspected that she's had her own agenda since the first time we saw her. I mean why would she care so much about Ventress's life outside of the clan. She hasn't seen Ventress in decades and she's so willing to help her no questions asked? Plus she seemed to drop hints that she was dissatisfied with Ventress because she took far to long to find her way back to Dathomir. Anyone else have similar thoughts?
 
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grievousfan91 said:
Great episode! So much happened, and so much still has to happen. Absolutely great! Just wish Star Wars Insider hadn't spoiled the ending.

One question: Why did Savage think Ventress betrayed him?
I won't be able to see it again until tomorrow morning, and my memory of this is a bit hazy since it was a while ago since I saw it, but I believe that after the fight - amidst multiple shocks from Dooku - the spell they cast on Savage had been worn enough for him to regain control of his own consciousness. He might've recalled that Asajj had him kill his brother to prove his loyalty to her. Now that he realizes he was being used for her personal quest for vengeance, and that resulted in the death of his brother, perhaps he feels that was the betrayal.

But, again, my memory of the events in this episode are a bit hazy since December.
 
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Admiral_Adama said:
grievousfan91 said:
Great episode! So much happened, and so much still has to happen. Absolutely great! Just wish Star Wars Insider hadn't spoiled the ending.

One question: Why did Savage think Ventress betrayed him?
I won't be able to see it again until tomorrow morning, and my memory of this is a bit hazy since it was a while ago since I saw it, but I believe that after the fight - amidst multiple shocks from Dooku - the spell they cast on Savage had been worn enough for him to regain control of his own consciousness. He might've recalled that Asajj had him kill his brother to prove his loyalty to her. Now that he realizes he was being used for her personal quest for vengeance, and that resulted in the death of his brother, perhaps he feels that was the betrayal.
^That's what I think, too.
 
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grievousfan91 said:
Admiral_Adama said:
And what's Talzin's angle in all this?
I've suspected that she's had her own agenda since the first time we saw her. I mean why would she care so much about Ventress's life outside of the clan. She hasn't seen Ventress in decades and she's so willing to help her no questions asked? Plus she seemed to drop hints that she was dissatisfied with Ventress because she took far to long to find her way back to Dathomir. Anyone else have similar thoughts?
It was pretty apparent that she's a lot like Sidious - she sees "all" and knows "all" and uses her powers to manipulate people, and events, for her own purposes. Her allegiance is neither to the Jedi or Sith, and apparently she's effectively used, both, Asajj and Dooku to hatch her latest monster. Now, perhaps, he can be fully trained by the other. Unless...
 
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Womp said:
Did Talzin say that
  Spoiler:  
was alive or just on the Outer Rim?

  Spoiler:  


If I remember the line, she says both. "He is alive, and in exile on the Outer Rim..." Something like that. I recall that sticking with me, as you see his face in the crystal ball.
 
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Admiral_Adama said:
Womp said:
Did Talzin say that
  Spoiler:  
was alive or just on the Outer Rim?

  Spoiler:  


If I remember the line, she says both. "He is alive, and in exile on the Outer Rim..." Something like that. I recall that sticking with me, as you see his face in the crystal ball.

  Spoiler:  


I wonder how broad the definition of "alive" can be...
 
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Womp said:
Admiral_Adama said:
Womp said:
Did Talzin say that
  Spoiler:  
was alive or just on the Outer Rim?

  Spoiler:  


If I remember the line, she says both. "He is alive, and in exile on the Outer Rim..." Something like that. I recall that sticking with me, as you see his face in the crystal ball.

  Spoiler:  


I wonder how broad the definition of "alive" can be...

  Spoiler:  


Interesting thought. I'm going to flesh out my ideas tomorrow morning, after I've seen Witches anew. But you can't discount the role of magic in all of this. They set us up for this with Savage's ability to get shot several times without dying. I know body armor can't give you that much protection, but magic can. If Talzin can morph a monster that's almost indestructible, then why not a...
 
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grievousfan91 said:
Great episode! So much happened, and so much still has to happen. Absolutely great! Just wish Star Wars Insider hadn't spoiled the ending.
This is precisely why I'm not reading the latest Insider which came in the mail this week until after the next arc is over in mid-February. I guess I can read the one with Jason and Jimmy in it now.
 
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To borrow a phrase from Jimmy.. Wowwiewowwow!

Incredible! Freakin' epic!

In all 3 of these episodes I've really enjoyed the pacing and choreography of the fights. Especially those with Dooku, you can really see how he uses the space he is in as an advantage against the multiple opponents.

Like the fight with Asaaj and Savage, both of them have wide swinging weapons and in the small space they can't both attack Dooku at the same time. They are off balance and uneven while he is on the defensive with superior skill in every way.

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

Regarding the ending, was Mother Talzin lying to Savage because she knew if he remained alive that the Jedi or Dooku would trace him back to them, and if he was still there they might wipe out the Nightsisters to get Savage. With Savage gone, it's easier on them if anyone shows up looking for revenge or whatever. She can say he's dead or gone or whatever suits them best.
 
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Exceptional, truly exceptional; that episode made the previous two seem so much better. I literally don’t have anything to critique... it was cool to see the last stand of King Katuunko, exceptional lightsaber duels, the unbridled power of Savage and the astonishingly epic music (anyone notice at one point it seemed to slightly echo ‘Battle of the Heroes’?).

Regarding the ‘secret revealed’ it seems it answers the question as to why he is force-sensitive... he believes all of his ‘kin’ were killed, leading me to believe that his ‘kin’ is inherently force-sensitive. It is going to be awesome to see Savage’s destiny unfold and see him and ‘the secret’ unleash their power against the galaxy.

Womp said:
Admiral_Adama said:
Womp said:
Did Talzin say that
  Spoiler:  
was alive or just on the Outer Rim?

  Spoiler:  


If I remember the line, she says both. "He is alive, and in exile on the Outer Rim..." Something like that. I recall that sticking with me, as you see his face in the crystal ball.

  Spoiler:  


I wonder how broad the definition of "alive" can be...

  Spoiler:  


”He lives in the Outer Rim; in exile. You will find him. He will teach you everything you need to learn to become even more powerful”

Well she says that he will ‘teach him’ the power of the dark side so that he can fulfil his destiny... which leads me to think he is alive. I think that Mother Talizan may know of some type of ‘Nightsister Prophecy’ which Savage and ‘the secret’ must fulfil. Perhaps ‘the secrets’ true purpose is much more connected to the Nightsisters than we once thought...
 
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Sheldon said:
Womp said:
Sheldon said:
Whoa - is you know who really alive!?

How!?!?!
I have a theory that emcompasses future episodes. I'm waiting to discuss it after the general public here has seen the secret revealed.

Perfect - I knew the Womp would come through!!
But I gotta wait!?
When spoilers are authorized on this thread, I'll tell you my theory. I don't want to ruin the reveal for anyone.
 
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Woahwoahwaitwhat?!?

Okay, so overall, I had the same problem with this episode that I did with the last one: All setup, very little actually happening.

-At the end, Ventress was in the same place she was at the end of "Nightsisters."
-Savage got some more stuff to do, but ultimately this entire plot just served to get him on his own personal journey-thing at the end.
-Katuunko getting killed off was a cool twist.
-RepComs' cameo was great.
-Anakin and Obi-Wan basically just ran around and watched everyone else do everything important.

I really think that 90% of this episode's importance lay in the "reveal" at the end. I really do wish they'd actually said HIS NAME, though, just so we wouldn't have to sit here and wonder if it's really him or not.
 
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Echo_Leader1 said:
I really think that 90% of this episode's importance lay in the "reveal" at the end. I really do wish they'd actually said HIS NAME, though, just so we wouldn't have to sit here and wonder if it's really him or not.
Which name would they use: His birth name (which Savage would know) or his other identity (which only we would know in that scene)? Better to leave it the way it was.
 
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IndianaKenobi said:
Exceptional, truly exceptional; that episode made the previous two seem so much better.
Exactly! Now you see what I was talking about - they were meant to be seen at the same time, rather than separately. Imagine seeing the live-action movies in three parts, separated by a week a piece.
 
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I really like the description on the back of Mother Talzin's card on the main site:

The leader of the Nightsisters, Mother Talzin is a scheming manipulator. Though she is capable of wielding powerful magic, it is her calculating mind that is her most potent weapon, as she patiently conjures and releases plots and conspiracies that secretly worm their way to fruition.
 
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