ROS Thoughts and Reviews Spoiler Thread

Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
1,044
Reaction score
76
It's not a bad story idea if you setup it up properly. Lucas originally was going to save the Emperor showdown for his Episode 9. Episode 6 was going to be Luke defeating Vader. Episode 7 and 8 was going to be about the "other" that was training on the far side of the galaxy. The two of them were going to face down the Emperor in Episode 9.
It makes you wonder what if GL had made the ST instead of the PT. Leia's role as a Jedi would have been interesting to see under GL's direction.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
5,893
Reaction score
262

Utinniii

Moderator
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
543
Location
Canada
No. Not really. It was going to all about the midichlorians. I doubt Leia would have fared any better.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
444
Reaction score
153
Location
Columbia, MO
I’m convinced JJ only brought this dude in to be the fall guy. Why else would you bring the guy responsible for such riveting screenplays as Batman v Superman and Justice League into the fold at the very end?
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
6,726
Reaction score
749
Location
Sacramento, CA
I’m convinced JJ only brought this dude in to be the fall guy. Why else would you bring the guy responsible for such riveting screenplays as Batman v Superman and Justice League into the fold at the very end?
You take that back! He's a fantastic writer! Everytime I find out someone's mom has the same name as mine I instantly do a 180 and become best friends with them....:rolleyes:

I doubt he was specifically brought in as a fall guy....but can you imagine if that guy specifically sold his services as the fall guy for franchise breaking movies?
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
Trumped up charges beyond reasonable critique? How about this one...

Palpatine is alive and the end of return of the Jedi just flat out doesn’t matter anymore? Like literally the end of Jedi gets repeated here except this time it’s different because he dies? Except we already saw him die in return of the Jedi.

How about the critique of him being behind the creation of the first order but he doesn’t give them his thousand Death Star destroyers. Seems like that would have been easier than having them carve out a planet that requires the entire energy of a sun to fire.

How about the critique of snoke being his puppet...yet snoke wants Rey killed and palpatine wants Rey to kill him. I’m not sure if this guy knows how to work a puppet.

Those are pretty unreasonable though.

I mean seeing characters die in the movies previously released really does mess with my ability to have those characters die in future movies. How can I make the same ending if it was already done. Writing is hard.
Oh man calm down.. that’s why I said “most” criticisms. You’re literally the first person I’ve heard crying about any of that. So he had a fleet in the Unknown Regions.. maybe Thrawn helped him out with that.. He died before our eyes and came back.. just like the EU? Shock horror!
Snoke was a puppet..? Well that theory was sent back to the toilet store 5 years ago!
We all know Rian Johnson took the story for a dump and came back empty handed. I was actually generalising on the editing and directing quality.. just don’t come at me with this middle aged man baby rage here. I’m kind of over it on this forum. Do us both a favour and just agree to disagree. Cheers 🍻
 
Last edited:

Utinniii

Moderator
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
543
Location
Canada
I have friends I discuss Star Wars with and their views on it are pretty different. Even where they agree, their reasons are often diametrical.
At the end of the discussions, I feel smarter with a deeper understanding of why they think and feel what they do. I understand the movies better.
They might shred aspects of the movies or their producers but they don't attack each other or their ideas. (Well, that isn't true but they are savage to each other all the time and it isn't mean spirited).

They reasonably deconstruct each other's views, making sure they have common ground as the basis for their position.

I hope most of us are here to discuss and not argue. However, when one starts insulting others and is overly negative, the chances of getting the other side to accept our views diminishes pretty quickly.

I see many comments (and reports now) about how toxic this forum can be. For those of you that don't like the negativity, perhaps look at your own posts and see if perhaps, you are stirring the pot (often unintentionally).

Calling someone something like a "man baby" has been reported in the past. Please don't start arguments that lead to official warnings.

Also, if I want my voice to be heard and respected, calling others names is a really bad way to do it.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
1,048
Reaction score
18
I keep reading/seeing Youtubers convinced that it’s Rian and his TLJ that's forced ROS in its Scooby-Doo direction— like JJ had no choice but to make ROS this insipidly stupid. You know, as unlikeable as Rian may be— he’s being absolutely used as the scapegoat in this instance by Disney to excuse the stupidity, laziness and sloppiness of ROS. It’s just so not true that TLJ is the reason why ROS is such an insult as the closing act. Had JJ bothered to spend just the slightest of effort to evolve/improve/develop from TLJ, ROS could have been at least salvageable without trashing/retconning/contradicting what came before it. I get some that hated TLJ enjoys JJ’s shadiness towards it, but I find his gesture just so tacky and ratchet. It really shows how Disney will turn against and eat its own just to make a buck.

I get that SW has become much much much more and bigger than just the movies alone. And for those that compensate the shortcomings of this Sequel with supplementary material— then good for them and more power to them for finding something remotely redeemable in this garbage. For me, SW only exists as the films, so I couldn’t care about anything outside the films, let alone anything this Pablo person has to make up. If the films come up short, then it’s failed as a story. SW isn’t Dungeons & Dragons to me.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
I have friends I discuss Star Wars with and their views on it are pretty different. Even where they agree, their reasons are often diametrical.
At the end of the discussions, I feel smarter with a deeper understanding of why they think and feel what they do. I understand the movies better.
They might shred aspects of the movies or their producers but they don't attack each other or their ideas. (Well, that isn't true but they are savage to each other all the time and it isn't mean spirited).

They reasonably deconstruct each other's views, making sure they have common ground as the basis for their position.

I hope most of us are here to discuss and not argue. However, when one starts insulting others and is overly negative, the chances of getting the other side to accept our views diminishes pretty quickly.

I see many comments (and reports now) about how toxic this forum can be. For those of you that don't like the negativity, perhaps look at your own posts and see if perhaps, you are stirring the pot (often unintentionally).

Calling someone something like a "man baby" has been reported in the past. Please don't start arguments that lead to official warnings.

Also, if I want my voice to be heard and respected, calling others names is a really bad way to do it.
Duly noted. Goodbye
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
Exactly! The old EU brought palply back as a Clone, and look how bad that was. IMO So it wouldn't surprise me if they had considered this path.
And it seemingly it fits right up Disney's alley...
Well it was Bob Iger’s idea. Lucas and Abrams were going with the “Son of Mortis” idea and were shut down.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
Where was that reported? I saw the writer (not JJ but the other one) said it was Kennedy’s idea to bring back palpatine.
Nothing would surprise me as far as Kennedy goes. As for the Son of Mortis, I heard it from a couple of sources. Just YouTube, but reputable. StarWarsCoffee I believe. I’ll get back to you on that but I believe it is 100% legit
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
OK, so this is not verified, so it is treated as rumour. The sources are cited though and it just makes a lot of sense quite frankly.

 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
725
Location
Pennsylvania
I find it extremely hard to believe that the crux ending of an entire film saga would rely...on something created for a children's animated cartoon. I ain't remotely buying it. Why not just make it Vlix from the freaking droids cartoon? :LOL:

And even if, just if, it was true...I completely understand why that was scrapped. Thank God!
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
725
Location
Pennsylvania
Noticed something rather small...but rather huge at the same time. In Solo, at the end, when Darth Maul appears (eyeroll)...you can see a Sith wayfinder in Dryden's collection of artifacts.


55 seconds in.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
I find it extremely hard to believe that the crux ending of an entire film saga would rely...on something created for a children's animated cartoon. I ain't remotely buying it. Why not just make it Vlix from the freaking droids cartoon? :LOL:

And even if, just if, it was true...I completely understand why that was scrapped. Thank God!
Like Boba Fett and General Grievous were introduced in cartoon form? I get it’s kinda different, but it’s also kinda the same.

Whether it’s in Legend’s lore or just how Lucas and Lawrence Kasdan had described it, I don’t recall, but there was supposed to be a “big bad” “wizard of Oz” in the Unknown Regions that Palpatine both respected and feared and he was seeking it out. To a lot of folks, Snoke represented this possibility, or a connection to it. Somewhat true it turns out. I’d imagine a better use for a Sith Wayfinder than just to find another planet, that’s incredibly difficult to get to, granted there are “people” there with the power to reunite his spirit with his dead body.. (doctors?) A stadium crowd of hooded followers? Then he finds he’s the only “big bad” when he gets there?
It’s just more compromise.
Palpatine knew exactly were to go and created a wormhole to get there as he was falling to his death... which seemed to have a lot to do with a plot device from a recent cartoon as well..
At any rate, I’m not here attempting to say what should or should not have happened in my own opinion, I’m just putting something on the table that seems a credible scenario that was scrapped. But to actually offer an opinion, I think the Son of Mortis would have worked as I imagine it in my own mind’s eye. The character was created and exists, just on some other level in regards to the force than other characters.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
725
Location
Pennsylvania
Like Boba Fett and General Grievous were introduced in cartoon form? I get it’s kinda different, but it’s also kinda the same.
Brother, touche! I can't even deny, you got me there. I mean yeah, it's kinda different, the Holiday Special really meaning jack squat and Grievous being already planned out for ROTS before the cartoon, but still, I get what you mean. Dude, that was admitted a sick burn I can't deny and must give you props for. I can admire that. Well played!

For the rest of it, lemme think it out...I'm terribly hung over. Hah.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
Well I appreciate that you sustained such a sick burn with graciousness and humility :)

Happy 2020!
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
1,188
Reaction score
3
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Just saw ROS in 3D XD tonight. There were several scenes which were different and one completely omitted scene in the 3D XD version.

In the 3D version, Rey's first 'mind meld' encounter with Kylo was totally missing ("Why didnt you take my hand? Because you would have killed me"). This should have been just after she nailed the training remote with her staff. In the 3D showing, there was no encounter, but in the normal film and digital presentations, Rey and Kylo have their first chat right after the ball dies (before Rey tells Leia 'she was distracted')

I guess that must have been filmed early or something, when they didnt have the 3D camera. (or else maybe they discovered it wasnt actually working afterward).

Anyway, it was a glaring absence and makes their 2nd encounter ("You will take my hand") seem much too casual from Rey's perspective.

In the 3D display, there was still a handful of non-3D scenes so it seems strange that they cut out that important scene. The 3D print did have an INCREDIBLE visual impact -- while Palpy was SithZapping all the rebel fleet at the end. His force-lightning into the sky was very powerful for me.

IMAX 3D is soon on my ToDo list. I'll report if Kylo says his line in that one.

FYI
-Wolf
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
665
Reaction score
674
Location
Los Angeles
Just saw ROS in 3D XD tonight. There were several scenes which were different and one completely omitted scene in the 3D XD version.

In the 3D version, Rey's first 'mind meld' encounter with Kylo was totally missing ("Why didnt you take my hand? Because you would have killed me"). This should have been just after she nailed the training remote with her staff. In the 3D showing, there was no encounter, but in the normal film and digital presentations, Rey and Kylo have their first chat right after the ball dies (before Rey tells Leia 'she was distracted')
I've seen this movie three times, starting on the day of release, all in standard 2D...and never seen this scene. Both Rey and Kylo have visions when he touches Vader's mask and she is fighting the remote, but they don't exchange dialogue. Is this something that existed in some screenings?

I've been off the site for a while, but to add my thoughts: I hate to say it, but this is easily the worst Star Wars movie for me. Unlike the majority in here, I thought TLJ was wonderful and really brought a lot to the table in terms of making the sequel trilogy its own thing and not just a duplicate of what came before. And also unlike a lot of people, I thought it pretty clearly set up a third movie with an interesting central conflict and some over-arching plotlines to be addressed. But TROS instead focused on trying to address those plotlines while also repeating more of what happened in earlier movies (especially ROTJ) and appeasing different agitated corners of the fanbase. But in doing so, it gave everything short shrift, leaving us with an overly rushed movie with undercooked characters and story. They needed to either take more time to really figure out what it is they wanted to do here at the end or admit that they had at least two movies' worth of stuff here, and make this IX and X.

There are aspects of it I liked. There are choices that, to me, are unforgivable. I'm glad there are people here who really like it, and who feel like the big sweeping changes made to the whole saga are intriguing and revealing, not shallow and deflating. Despite it all, I'll probably end up buying some more toys from it...but I will say I canceled what orders I did have and am not sure what I'll do with the few I've already picked up. Ah well.

edit: and, yes, I have seen a movie I actively dislike three times in the theater within the first ten days of it being out. I'm nothing if not a glutton for punishment when it comes to Star Wars.
 

Utinniii

Moderator
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
543
Location
Canada
They say you have to try something 10 times before you like it, so you'd better head back out to the theatre!:p

Or to quote Oasis (I think), "you're just not trying hard enough!"
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
6,726
Reaction score
749
Location
Sacramento, CA
Like Boba Fett and General Grievous were introduced in cartoon form? I get it’s kinda different, but it’s also kinda the same.

Whether it’s in Legend’s lore or just how Lucas and Lawrence Kasdan had described it, I don’t recall, but there was supposed to be a “big bad” “wizard of Oz” in the Unknown Regions that Palpatine both respected and feared and he was seeking it out. To a lot of folks, Snoke represented this possibility, or a connection to it. Somewhat true it turns out. I’d imagine a better use for a Sith Wayfinder than just to find another planet, that’s incredibly difficult to get to, granted there are “people” there with the power to reunite his spirit with his dead body.. (doctors?) A stadium crowd of hooded followers? Then he finds he’s the only “big bad” when he gets there?
It’s just more compromise.
Palpatine knew exactly were to go and created a wormhole to get there as he was falling to his death... which seemed to have a lot to do with a plot device from a recent cartoon as well..
At any rate, I’m not here attempting to say what should or should not have happened in my own opinion, I’m just putting something on the table that seems a credible scenario that was scrapped. But to actually offer an opinion, I think the Son of Mortis would have worked as I imagine it in my own mind’s eye. The character was created and exists, just on some other level in regards to the force than other characters.
The frustrating thing about this movie....is now those Palpatine Robot Chicken stuff doesn't work anymore....that makes me sad...lol.

To touch on the "big bad" in the Unknown Regions. Before the EU Legends books were jettisoned the threat in the Unknown Regions were the Yuuzhan Vong. In the old EU Palpatine was having Thrawn make preparations in the Unknown Regions for the imminent invasion of the Vong. Hence why Thrawn was out there cutoff from the Empire and also why Palpatine was so intent on developing super weapons.

This wasn't a Lucas idea, but since at the time he had no desire to ever do any ST era stuff this was all blessed as canon.
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
1,077
Reaction score
30
Finally saw ROTS last night. I went in with low expectations. The film isn't perfect, but it's clearly the best of the ST.

I rewatched TFA and TLJ before watching. TFA is a complete mess because it's a soft reboot, it has almost no creativity, every major plot is a rehash, Rey is a rehash. Trench run is eye-rolling. Jakku aka Tatooine 2.0 is eye-rolling. Maz Katana is Yoda without a lightsaber. TLJ is an even bigger mess. I don't have to explain why. I didn't hate TLJ when i saw it, but i didn't love it either. It was just a mess. The more you watch it, the more crappy it becomes. The whole social justice agenda of the entire Disney SW franchise can go f*** itself. Useless Rose was introduced soley to get an asian in the movies, and then removed for being annoying, and then some useless black chick character introduced in this movie to get the "woman of color" quota marked off the checklist again. Who gives a f***.

TROS helped make some amends for all the terrible screw-ups from the previous 2 movies. The other 2 movies were fundamentally bad movies. Not little plot holes that nerds couldn't explain way, but just major plot points that were bad. TROS finally gives some kind of origin of Snoke and who and why he was around. I mean...we needed SOMETHING to explain his origin, and i was happy with something rather than nothing. We finally learned about Rey's parents. The Palpatine twist was unexpected and I liked it, and brings the series back to its space opera roots. Thought Palpatine would be a clone, turns out he's something...else. Whatever, i'm not overthinking it, it was fun. They made Palpatine into more of a badass than he's ever been, made him the lynch-pin of the whole saga again, that was fun.

There were 39 different planets they visited in the movie, including a new desert planet. Why? Who cares. It was fun. There were 85 different lightsaber battles. They were fun. How did the Death Star Throne Room and Palpatine survive being blown up? Who cares, it was a fun movie.

The only major thing I didn't like was how over-the-top the action was on Exogol, i mean the entire galaxy of ships vs a massive Death Star Destroyer fleet? Palpatine using force lightening against an entire galaxy of resistance ships? The power of every sith ever vs the power of every Jedi ever? Everyone dying and then coming back to life and then dying again? Calm your ADHD Mr. Abrams.

I also don't think they spent quite enough time repairing Luke's character. Making him hopeful Luke again, and giving him a bit more screen time in this movie. But oh well.

Anyways, the whole movie was a big fun romp. A little too big, but still fun. I teared up a couple times towards the end. At least they got that Star Wars is about friendship and family, we got characters who actually cared for each other. There wasn't time to pick apart every plot hole as the scenes flashed by, so just let go and have fun with this. Impossible to please everyone.

Other major flaw in this movie is that JJ & co were handcuffed by the crap that was TLJ, so they had to spend time explaining why parts of that movie were crap and making amends for them, plus on top of that pushing the plot for this new movie. JJ basically remade Ep. 8 while also making Ep. 9, so this was 2 movies in one, and it showed. The screenwriters were pushing to split this into 2 movies, and i would have been ok with that. There was a TON of movie in this one, and lots that still could use explaination. Anyways, they did it in one movie, somehow, miraculously. It's not perfect but it kinda works. It's not the OT, nothing will be, but it works, I got what I came for and then some.

The ending was done well, on Tatooine. Rey is a Skywalker, with ghost Luke & Leia in the background, they are her mom and dad, so is Rey actually the biological incestuous love-child of Luke & Leia? Obi-wan lied to Luke about his dad, maybe Luke lied to Rey about her parents? HA!!
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
32,589
Reaction score
1,182
Location
Oregon
While I never cared much for the Vong as the Villain, I always did want to see something similar happen with an outside threat.
One of the main reasons why the Empire 2.0/FO/FO bothers me so, just an easy rehashed way out for them.
 

Utinniii

Moderator
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
5,106
Reaction score
543
Location
Canada
The Vong were an awesome Foe. In the beginning when nobody knew how to counter their biotech, and how the warfare developed, all of that was great. The death of Ithor was heartbreaking. Nom Anor causing sissent was also good. The Cortex mysteries had good cultural development.

However, A LOT of the series was badly written so the overall impression was bad.
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
4,149
Reaction score
200
Noticed something rather small...but rather huge at the same time. In Solo, at the end, when Darth Maul appears (eyeroll)...you can see a Sith wayfinder in Dryden's collection of artifacts.


55 seconds in.
Looks like just decoration. Or a Sith holocron, which look almost exactly like the "wayfinder."
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
725
Location
Pennsylvania
I mean, that was my question. Holocrons have been a thing in the EU for some time, basically something universally accepted in lore, just oddly never seen on film before. So I was wondering is the wayfinder a type of holocron? You're right, they do look identical. But this film basically does stuff that have been in the EU, either the old canon or the new, for some time but never on screen. Force healing, Palpatine surviving, Sith possession, Luke training Leia, former EU Sith in statue form, so my thing is...yeah I think it is a holocron in a sense.

Now I will admit, the whole Palpatine broadcasting himself was a bit odd to me. Why would he do that? But I think it's basically a call to arms. Come to Exogol. Even though both the Empire and the Sith are out of power, that does not mean there wouldn't be old Imperial remnant sympathizers in hiding or Sith worshipers. I mean, there are still Nazi sympathizers in the world. The film clearly shows them. So I think, because he sent a message out to the galaxy, those crewing the ships and those Sith occultists are who answered the call to arms. I also think that general Pryde is basically the link in the First Order to Palpatine as well...the film even says it. I think he's the only First Order member to be aware of Palpatine really being behind it all and he serving the old Empire makes him the prefect mole. The Empire has their own mole in the system.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
3,790
Reaction score
922
Location
Viborg, Denmark
Holocrons, both Sith and Jedi, have been shown in the cartoons. Maybe Sith are more into pyramidic shapes, where Jedi prefer cubes :)
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
665
Reaction score
674
Location
Los Angeles
They say you have to try something 10 times before you like it, so you'd better head back out to the theatre!:p

Or to quote Oasis (I think), "you're just not trying hard enough!"
I have zero doubt that, even with an extremely negative opinion of it, I will watch this movie at least ten times in my life. This is the sort of thing I can say in here, but is hard to explain to people in real life.

Now I will admit, the whole Palpatine broadcasting himself was a bit odd to me. Why would he do that? But I think it's basically a call to arms. Come to Exogol. Even though both the Empire and the Sith are out of power, that does not mean there wouldn't be old Imperial remnant sympathizers in hiding or Sith worshipers. I mean, there are still Nazi sympathizers in the world. The film clearly shows them. So I think, because he sent a message out to the galaxy, those crewing the ships and those Sith occultists are who answered the call to arms. I also think that general Pryde is basically the link in the First Order to Palpatine as well...the film even says it. I think he's the only First Order member to be aware of Palpatine really being behind it all and he serving the old Empire makes him the prefect mole. The Empire has their own mole in the system.
It would have been great if any of that were actually part of a character-driven plot in the movie.

My final (yeah, sure) thought is that it's fascinating to end up back where we were (or at least I was) in the prequel era: having to twist and contort my own headcanon and interpretations of the movies in order to fill in the large gaps created by the shoddy storytelling. For all the other flaws of the first four Disney-era movies, they never came across as incomplete or difficult to understand. I truly thought that baseline level of narrative competence would carry forward, especially in the final saga film. But, as a ghost once said: I was wrong.

(And to clarify: I had the time and energy to fill in those gaps in the prequels, because Lucas is Lucas...for all his flaws, he gave us all this ****. I'll put in the work for him. For JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio? Well, I got at least seven more viewings to figure it out, but early returns are not in their favor...)

edit: To clarify: I am not disparaging Mysterio's theories here. I think they are great. (And I appreciate his enthusiasm for the movie, and feel that his analysis works better than the actual narrative in the film.) His quoted thoughts above make me realize that a movie that sets up the First Order marshaling their true believers against the Resistance following up on the Legend of Luke Skywalker to gather people to actively stand up against oppression should have been a key engine of the movie's story. Which would have both allowed the movie to tie back into the remnants of the Empire and the Sith while directly tying into themes and character arcs from VII and VIII. I would have really liked that. But...instead it's just hints in the margins of a movie that doesn't have the time to stop and develop anything on its own. All IMO, of course.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
665
Reaction score
674
Location
Los Angeles
Postscript: I just want to note that after my alleged "final" note in that post, I not only added two "to clarify" paragraphs there, but also made three posts in the pinned threads for the last two saga movies. "yeah, sure" indeed.

To add in things I liked: Babu Frik is my homeboy. The main actors are really fun to watch do their thing, even when their characterizations are inconsistent or minimal. A bunch of the story beats, while undercooked, had real promise. And while on paper it seems like a dumb idea, I got legitimately emotional at the Han Solo vision. That felt like a nice light-side mirror of all the vision scenes we have had in dark-side locales. And "You're just a memory" / "Yeah, your memory" was a rare moment of successfully economic storytelling rooted in the character's emotions.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
725
Location
Pennsylvania
I mean yeah, end of the day, there is a lot of fill in the blank. But I think I pieced most of it together. At least in a way that satisfies me.

Like, I rather liked Leia's death. I think what happened in the situation is, Leia feels that Ben is about to die, perhaps metaphorically as well in the sense that if he kills Rey he'll fully embrace the Kylo Ren persona again. This was her one fear, the premonition she had that caused her to abandon her Jedi training with Luke, that her taking on training will ultimately cause the death of her son. She reaches out to him. He senses her and stops, allowing Rey to strike out in rage and mortally wound Kylo. This is what kills her. Mother and son, it's symbiotic. When he is stabbed, it's like a metaphor for her at that very moment dying. But he is revived by Rey. A Palpatine saves a Skywalker. I also believe, since she is clutching Han's Yavin medal right before she dies, perhaps one of the last things she said to him WAS planting the memory of Han in Kylo's mind and how he is not beyond redemption. So when he wakes, he has that internalized conversation with his father that mirrors the exact same conversation he had when he murdered him, but now Ben Solo has embraced the light. He's no longer in conflict. He goes then to fight alongside Rey, is tossed away in the same fashion as Anakin tossing Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, and once Rey is killed, he now makes the ultimate sacrifice. A Skywalker giving his life for a Palpatine. They embrace, the coming together of the dark side and the light side uniting. Balance. He fads, as does now his mothers body, achieving at least peace.

But I do not think this renders Anakin's sacrifice null and void. As I said, firstly, I do think Palpatine did die. I don't think that is the Return of the Jedi body, that's long gone. Vaporized! Plus I mean, for someone who's always been the master planner, the puppet-master behind the clone wars, and simultaneously a dude established to be paranoid, the Sith rule of two established that the apprentice will always betray the master in a right of passage way, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he had a contingency plan in the happenstance that Vader betrays him. Since he is also established in the prequels to be obsessed with creating life and mastering death, then this film explicitly shows he's using clones, that he himself is a clone. And like I said, I even think that Snoke may be one of the earliest botched Palpatine clones, and that perhaps Palpatine's son was one of the first successful clones. That would explain away the mysterious and somewhat baffling Palpatine having a lover thing. He didn't. Upon realizing that this dude was just being basically test tube farmed to be a vessel for the most evil Sith being in the universe, he naturally ran. It would be a horrifying revelation. Again it's also been established in lore that the dark side eats away at the physical body, hence why the Palpatine we see is simultaneously younger appearing but also decomposing. It's just a husk. He's probably so evil, especially now that he's committed an abomination against the force in cheating death, he's probably burning through those things, hence perhaps why he even sent out the message. He needed more Sith acolytes to help in his lingering continuation.

So now, when you think of the symbolism, everything that Anakin did in life, everything he set forth, him being the catalyst or Luke and Leia's birth, the result of how Leia and Han would meet and then have Ben, his sacrifice that saves the life of his son by killing his pseudo-surrogate father in Palpatine, all of it does mean Anakin was the chosen one. As now it basically culminates in the themes being family and life itself, Anakin made this family. He birthed it and his actions influenced its direction...the direction that ultimately ends with the finalizing death of Palpatine, the Jedi all uniting with a Palpatine to definitively end the Emperors tainting evil presence once and for all.

"It's like poetry, it rhymes."

Now with that said, I do kind of wish that Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda, and Luke could be literally seen in the room though and the none spirits can just remain voices.

I def. also do think that the implication of the former stormtroopers laying their arms down, they're implying (since Finn is not confirmed force sensitive) that these stormtroopers are also force sensitive and that's what it takes to break the mind programming. Now they will becoming sort of the next Jedi apprentices. I always thought the concept of a stormtrooper who defects and goes AWOL was a very compelling idea, I just wish they had done more with it.

I mean, a lot of this is just recycling things I've already said.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
2,461
Reaction score
413
Location
Alberta, Canada
So now, when you think of the symbolism, everything that Anakin did in life, everything he set forth, him being the catalyst or Luke and Leia's birth, the result of how Leia and Han would meet and then have Ben, his sacrifice that saves the life of his son by killing his pseudo-surrogate father in Palpatine, all of it does mean Anakin was the chosen one.
100%! Even after leaving the theater from my first TROS viewing I still believed Anakin was the chosen one. Everything that happens, none of it works without Anakin setting things in motion.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
21
Location
Australia
To touch on the "big bad" in the Unknown Regions. Before the EU Legends books were jettisoned the threat in the Unknown Regions were the Yuuzhan Vong. In the old EU Palpatine was having Thrawn make preparations in the Unknown Regions for the imminent invasion of the Vong. Hence why Thrawn was out there cutoff from the Empire and also why Palpatine was so intent on developing super weapons.

This wasn't a Lucas idea, but since at the time he had no desire to ever do any ST era stuff this was all blessed as canon.
As blasphemous as it may be I have not read the Thrawn Trilogy or much other EU post ROTJ. I didn’t get much further than Truce at Bakura or Children of the Jedi. Allegiance was all I read of Timothy Zhan. Not that I haven’t had the opportunity to read everything.. I’m 50 next year.. Wookieepedia has filled me in with most of it, so I’m familiar with the overall story and that Palpatine was definitely getting ready for an extra-galactic threat.

Not the same as what was linked to Lucas’ original story treatment back when Michael Arndt and Larry Kasdan were nutting out a script, that obviously never saw the light of day, but we suspect is far superior to what we were allowed to experience. No, it was just a passing comment in some random interview where they couldn’t give much away. It was however the basis for rounding out the saga since the idea of a “saga” was given legs. A mysterious evil that is almost omnipotent is how I remember this description and although, being a fan of the Yuuzhan Vong and fantasising how scary and compelling that might look in live action, it was obviously not what they were talking about.

Early “possible” names for The Force Awakens were also being thrown about, like; “An Ancient Fear”.. this stuff was supposed to be good right? It felt like it was going to be amazing!
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
1,509
Reaction score
287
So a YouTube video made a joke pronouncing Exogol as Testical, now I can’t take that planet name seriously

The way finder is obviously a HoloCron, & it annoyed me they changed the name.
 
Top