Rian Johnson's trillogy is still being made

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If it was about the characters changing their plan instead of Johnson ignoring the plot line that was set up in TFA, there would have to be a line in the movie about them changing plans due to new intel or whatever.

Jedi takes place several months after Empire. Even if Vader's first assumption is that Luke would try to go rescue Han at Jabba's (even though neither movie indicates this is Vader's thought process), how long should he have camped out over there?
would there have been? We don't really know the First Orders plan after Kylo fails to bring rey to her.


Of course Vader knew that's how he got Luke to come to Cloud City. Han even makes a point about him not being asked any questions just being tortured. So Vader knows that Luke will risk himself to go after his friends.

It's the empire they have unlimted resources it seems like it would be a small price to pay to have some elite troopers there in Jaba's palace waiting. Not to mention they already have a outpost on Tatooiine.
 
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Snoke mentions the Knights of Ren by name in TFA.

Luke was one of the strongest Force users ever - Finn stumbled around for 2 movies.
good catch on the knights of ren line. I'd forgotten that but that one line doesn't mean they were meant to play a role in The Last Jedi. Now that Kylo is the Supreme Leader it makes a little more sense to debut his dark side squad in the third act. Question is, how will folks feel if JJ doesn't use them or just has them as lightsaber fodder?

Strongest force user ever? He would have been just another dead jedi if he hadn't been able to get Vader to turn. It wasn't his mastery of the force that turned Vader. It's one of those things you can't accurately compare due to special effects limitations. On film we saw Luke force pull his lightsaber in the wampa cave, use a jedi mind trick and do some jedi jumps. Prequels were able to add "powers" due to effects advances. But there is the line about anakin's midichlorians count being even higher than Yoda's, which indicates that's a big deal.

Finn definitely has bumbled around and been a wasted character. Who knows, maybe sequel era bacta is way better lol.
 
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good catch on the knights of ren line. I'd forgotten that but that one line doesn't mean they were meant to play a role in The Last Jedi. Now that Kylo is the Supreme Leader it makes a little more sense to debut his dark side squad in the third act. Question is, how will folks feel if JJ doesn't use them or just has them as lightsaber fodder?

Strongest force user ever? He would have been just another dead jedi if he hadn't been able to get Vader to turn. It wasn't his mastery of the force that turned Vader. It's one of those things you can't accurately compare due to special effects limitations. On film we saw Luke force pull his lightsaber in the wampa cave, use a jedi mind trick and do some jedi jumps. Prequels were able to add "powers" due to effects advances. But there is the line about anakin's midichlorians count being even higher than Yoda's, which indicates that's a big deal.

Finn definitely has bumbled around and been a wasted character. Who knows, maybe sequel era bacta is way better lol.
I was being kind of sarcastic about Luke/Force etc.

Obviously special FX advancements over the years allowed the prequel Jedi to do more on screen but the in-universe explanation that GL provided made sense: in the OT we saw a cripple fight an old man and a cripple fight a kid...the PT Jedi were at the height of their Force power (physically)
 
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Can we get the title of this thread changed now that it's confirmed Ruin Johnson has no trilogy and never did?
 
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Can we get the title of this thread changed now that it's confirmed Ruin Johnson has no trilogy and never did?
Oh I’m sure the “official” word is that he’s “still working on his SW trilogy” when asked. Words are cheap. They’ll never admit he’s out. They can easily throw him some phantom "writing credits" in the new GoT duo’s trilogy, and say that he’s still “officially" involved in a trilogy.

The funny thing is that the way he would mock someone who’s critical of him, is how he is now mocked just in the same way: The backlash against the abysmal writing of GoT’s current Season is described as pulling a “Rian Johnson”...
 
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Oh I’m sure the “official” word is that he’s “still working on his SW trilogy” when asked. Words are cheap. They’ll never admit he’s out. They can easily throw him some phantom "writing credits" in the new GoT duo’s trilogy, and say that he’s still “officially" involved in a trilogy.

The funny thing is that the way he would mock someone who’s critical of him, is how he is now mocked just in the same way: The backlash against the abysmal writing of GoT’s current Season is described as pulling a “Rian Johnson”...
Yea the new buzz phrase to combat ****** storytelling and bad directors is "subvert expectations" lol
 
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if Rian Johnson is indeed "still working" on a story idea, then I sincerely wish that Rian will "subvert our expectations" by submitting an idea that doesn't suck.



somehow I "expect" this won't happen. (but go ahead Rian, subvert my expectation).
 
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Rian really has become a meme that's redefined “subverting expectations” to meaning “lowered/lowest expectations”, hasn’t he…? I sort of feel bad for him LOL

The new upcoming trilogy is obviously the one that will be helmed by the GoT duo, even if it’s not yet official. (And it's clearly a trilogy with the pattern of the planned release dates for 3 films.)

I really do hope that these 2 will give it their all and come up with something spectacular— despite their awful “storytelling” efforts in the last few Seasons of GoT, and finally to the point of stooping to a “Rian Johnson” in the final Season. I really hope their SW trilogy will prove their harshest critics wrong and they’re able to lead SW into a new golden age (of The Old Republic?). ...If nothing else, the armour designs are guaranteed to be excellent LOL

And if they’ve learned noting from this Season 8 dumpster fire, maybe we will be lamenting for Rian LOL I suspect if the Cassian/The Mandalorain does well, Rian may be given a few episodes to direct. Both him and the GoT duo aren’t particularly awful directors— they just can’t be bothered to write solid stories that make sense. Working off and more importantly, in collaboration with others’ writing, they may just impress. Here’s hoping.

Everyone deserves a 2nd chance.
 
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^^^ Yes— that’s all good. But what does it have anything to do with the stunningly lazy, glaringly nonsensical storytelling, and offensively illogical plot points for the sake of “subverting expectations” that have finally turned the final Season into a parody of its former thoughtful self??? The spectacles and soundtrack are admittedly of premium quality in terms of visuals: But they make absolutely no sense once you start to question the logistics. Sounds too familiar to a certain “subverting expectations expert we consistently bash here...

They’ve turned GoT into what many have accused Rian of turning SW into: A farce.

So once again, I can’t in confidence say that these 2 are better than Rian if they’re just going to continue the way that they have with GoT into SW. If Rian is being dragged and made a meme of for his awful writing and gimmicks, then these 2 equally deserve the same wrath for doing (and having done since Season 5 of GoT) for pissing all over GoT. And thankfully, people are starting to see this.

(Hopefully, these Westeros prequel series will take its cue from the first few Seasons and not the last few Season of GoT. Spectacles are nice, but solid storytelling trumps them all. Putting lipstick on a pig and all that.)
 
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^^^ Yes— that’s all good. But what does it have anything to do with the stunningly lazy, glaringly nonsensical storytelling, and offensively illogical plot points for the sake of “subverting expectations” that have finally turned the final Season into a parody of its former thoughtful self??? The spectacles and soundtrack are admittedly of premium quality in terms of visuals: But they make absolutely no sense once you start to question the logistics. Sounds too familiar to a certain “subverting expectations expert we consistently bash here...

They’ve turned GoT into what many have accused Rian of turning SW into: A farce.

So once again, I can’t in confidence say that these 2 are better than Rian if they’re just going to continue the way that they have with GoT into SW. If Rian is being dragged and made a meme of for his awful writing and gimmicks, then these 2 equally deserve the same wrath for doing (and having done since Season 5 of GoT) for pissing all over GoT. And thankfully, people are starting to see this.

(Hopefully, these Westeros prequel series will take its cue from the first few Seasons and not the last few Season of GoT. Spectacles are nice, but solid storytelling trumps them all. Putting lipstick on a pig and all that.)
I have a hard time understanding what "everyone" that is going nuts about GoT is so upset about? I think that they probably didn't want it to end and that 13 episodes to end the spectacle that had 60 episodes of setup was going to be disappointing no matter what? I wonder what everyone wanted to happen... it's not like Star Wars where there actually IS years and years of written Expanded Content on what had happened post ROTJ that had to be undone. I had expectations for Disney Star Wars that made me disappointed in what happened. What expectations were there for GoT?

Was Dany supposed to all of a sudden be accepted by everyone and sit on the throne? People seemed to be excited about Jon being a Targaryen but they didn't see how that would be an issue with him taking the throne? Bran.... Bran, bran, bran.... His plan is actually something to read into, but that's a different subject.

To say B & W can't write a decent Star Wars story because they followed the most likely path with a story they didn't create seems a bit crazy? To say Rian Johnson can't create a decent Star Wars story has been proven.
 
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I have a hard time understanding what "everyone" that is going nuts about GoT is so upset about? I think that they probably didn't want it to end and that 13 episodes to end the spectacle that had 60 episodes of setup was going to be disappointing no matter what? I wonder what everyone wanted to happen... it's not like Star Wars where there actually IS years and years of written Expanded Content on what had happened post ROTJ that had to be undone. I had expectations for Disney Star Wars that made me disappointed in what happened. What expectations were there for GoT?

Was Dany supposed to all of a sudden be accepted by everyone and sit on the throne? People seemed to be excited about Jon being a Targaryen but they didn't see how that would be an issue with him taking the throne? Bran.... Bran, bran, bran.... His plan is actually something to read into, but that's a different subject.

To say B & W can't write a decent Star Wars story because they followed the most likely path with a story they didn't create seems a bit crazy? To say Rian Johnson can't create a decent Star Wars story has been proven.
Nothing had to be undone from post ROTJ Star Wars because it was never canon to begin with.

GoT went markedly down hill when there were not books left for them to adapt. They abandoned or just straight forgot/ignored story threads that were clearly written to be important.
 
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Nothing had to be undone from post ROTJ Star Wars because it was never canon to begin with.

GoT went markedly down hill when there were not books left for them to adapt. They abandoned or just straight forgot/ignored story threads that were clearly written to be important.
Whether you were interested in it or not, the EU exists and gives a much better story post ROTJ than what we got. I was willing to accept a new story should it have been at least done well. Canon is entirely irrelevant and I sort of hope to never hear the word again.

I watched all of GoT and found it riveting. I would agree that it went too quickly at the end and that certainly had more time been given to the show they would have likely gone more in depth. In essence, you are saying that people are hating on the show for a lack of .... more show. I am not trying to be contrary, just realistic. Yes I know the Night King was dispatched too quickly. I also know that Bran's talents were mostly wasted as plot points. They couldn't end the show after season 6. They had to come to some sort of conclusion. Realistically the show did what it needed to do in order to give an ending. I will agree it certainly came more abruptly than I would have liked also but I don't see how they could have fit much more in. Therefore, most of the complaints are that there just wasn't any more show.
 
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I didn't like a lot of the old EU, but it's much better than what they've come up with since 2015. I didn't really like where JJ started in TFA, but by the end of the film I was willing to accept the universe as it was. Then came TLJ and just drove everything off a cliff and I'm not sure if JJ, in one film, can set things back on a course that would actually interest me. Sometimes I have the feeling that they used two films (TFA and TLJ) to try and get us into the new post-Jedi universe and now, TROS can get things moving, but the film itself needs to cover the material of two, if not really three, parts of a trilogy. Having TLJ start mere seconds after where TFA ended, was something that puts a real limit on how much of the story can be told in the ST. Had they jumped a few years into the future and started there, the film might have come over better. Of course then, RJ wouldn't have been able to do his little lightsaber toss scene.
 
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I have a hard time understanding what "everyone" that is going nuts about GoT is so upset about? I think that they probably didn't want it to end and that 13 episodes to end the spectacle that had 60 episodes of setup was going to be disappointing no matter what? I wonder what everyone wanted to happen... it's not like Star Wars where there actually IS years and years of written Expanded Content on what had happened post ROTJ that had to be undone. I had expectations for Disney Star Wars that made me disappointed in what happened. What expectations were there for GoT?

Was Dany supposed to all of a sudden be accepted by everyone and sit on the throne? People seemed to be excited about Jon being a Targaryen but they didn't see how that would be an issue with him taking the throne? Bran.... Bran, bran, bran.... His plan is actually something to read into, but that's a different subject.

To say B & W can't write a decent Star Wars story because they followed the most likely path with a story they didn't create seems a bit crazy? To say Rian Johnson can't create a decent Star Wars story has been proven.


It’s never been about how I wanted the story to go and I turned on it because it didn’t go my way— for both SW and GoT.

For instance, Dany eventually becoming The Mad Queen is fine and can be an epic development— if it wasn’t just so ridiculously rushed, after so many Seasons showing her to be so resilient, having endured impossible hardship and still remained determined to protect the defenceless: It’s just not convincing to have her snap and become Hitler in 2 episodes. This scenario is just like how George had Anakin’s turn to the Dark Side in The Prequel… Both instances, it’s rushed, clumsily, carelessly and straightup horrendously handled. It’s the same cheap “subverting expectation” as a gimmick that Rian deploys…

If you can’t see the gradual downward spiral of the writing from Season 5 on, then I suppose you’re one of those fortunate (or unfortunate LOL) viewers that can fully enjoy the series from beginning to end without being critical. To be fair, there are some great moments throughout the series, despite its downward spiral in writing. Hardhome is one of the most intense storytelling of the series that’s able to balance great action set with impressive, lean and mean storytelling. And I’ll always maintain that the production value has only gotten better and stronger to rival any Hollywood blockbuster as the series progressed, along with an always solid soundtrack (just feast your eyes one the gorgeous Battle Of The Ba5stards and Florence's haunting “Jenny Of Oldstone” song from Season 8). On a purely superficial level, the visuals are stunning and can easily draw you in. Sadly, that’s all there is, with nothing of substance once you think beyond the spectacle. And GoT was always better than that. (Seriously, if you can't see the quality writing of the first few Seasons when compared to the last few, I don't know what to say to you...)
 
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but she didn't quite go all "mad queen" though, did she? the mad king was batshit crazy.
he was rambling the same thing over and over again. he had clearly lost all of his marbles.

but Dany still had all of her faculties, she wasn't completely crazy.
she says it was necessary.... like some still think hiroshima was necessary (otherwise the japanese would never 'bend the knee').
was it cruel? yes. but it wasn't "crazy" -- there was no need to depict a long drawn-out decent into madness.

as Tyrion pointed out , her 'hiroshima' moment was consistent with everything she had done before.... it was consistent with her character...
.....but for some reason the audience seems to have never actually seen her in this way.
 
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It’s never been about how I wanted the story to go and I turned on it because it didn’t go my way— for both SW and GoT.

For instance, Dany eventually becoming The Mad Queen is fine and can be an epic development— if it wasn’t just so ridiculously rushed, after so many Seasons showing her to be so resilient, having endured impossible hardship and still remained determined to protect the defenceless: It’s just not convincing to have her snap and become Hitler in 2 episodes. This scenario is just like how George had Anakin’s turn to the Dark Side in The Prequel… Both instances, it’s rushed, clumsily, carelessly and straightup horrendously handled. It’s the same cheap “subverting expectation” as a gimmick that Rian deploys…

If you can’t see the gradual downward spiral of the writing from Season 5 on, then I suppose you’re one of those fortunate (or unfortunate LOL) viewers that can fully enjoy the series from beginning to end without being critical. To be fair, there are some great moments throughout the series, despite its downward spiral in writing. Hardhome is one of the most intense storytelling of the series that’s able to balance great action set with impressive, lean and mean storytelling. And I’ll always maintain that the production value has only gotten better and stronger to rival any Hollywood blockbuster as the series progressed, along with an always solid soundtrack (just feast your eyes one the gorgeous Battle Of The Ba5stards and Florence's haunting “Jenny Of Oldstone” song from Season 8). On a purely superficial level, the visuals are stunning and can easily draw you in. Sadly, that’s all there is, with nothing of substance once you think beyond the spectacle. And GoT was always better than that. (Seriously, if you can't see the quality writing of the first few Seasons when compared to the last few, I don't know what to say to you...)
Good discussion. This is how Message Boards are supposed to work.

I have repeatedly agreed with the rushed storytelling and I agree that the visuals did take some precedence over the story when it came to the big battles. I tend to disagree on Dany. I keep hearing that her turn was so quick, but I would suggest her turn was inevitable. She was doing what she had to do to build her army and calling herself the 'breaker of chains' and 'protector of the realm', but some might call her 'murderer of anyone that doesn't serve her purpose' depending on your point of view. Once she got to Dragonstone she started getting more impressed with herself. I realize this was the start of the also maligned 7th season, but she was intending at that point to take King's Landing, but Jon got in the way. As soon as Jon came into the picture she got caught up in his mission and sacrificed her mission.

I would say Dany 'snapped' due to bad council and bad luck. Jon being a Targaryen wasn't something she could have anticipated. The army of the dead was not in her plans. Losing 2 dragons ... her children... in so many days/weeks was impossible. Watching Jorah die and then Misandei and Varys turns against her and Jon is an idiot and blabs about his parentage to people he knows will plot against her. She even says, 'I don't have love here, only fear' and then Jon pulls away and she says 'let it be fear'... what did people think she meant by that? She had decided to burn the place down at that point. She hesitated when she heard the bells, but those bells only reminded her of the fact that mercy is weakness... she said that too. So she snapped, but it wasn't in the moment most place it in. It was when Cersei showed no mercy. So really it's Misandei's fault... she did say Dracarys! :\
 
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as Tyrion pointed out , her 'hiroshima' moment was consistent with everything she had done before.... it was consistent with her character...
.....but for some reason the audience seems to have never actually seen her in this way.
I think part of the problem the disappointed fans have with all of this, is that they've seen Emilia Clarke often enough in interviews and they've decided she's so sweet and innocent and they tranposed those feelings to Danys. So, when she all of a sudden becomes ruthless in the end, people don't want to accpet the fact that the character and the actress are two different things.

Had they added 10epsidoes along the way before and during the last season and Danys would have had more time to become so mean and nasty, would people still have accepted it?
 
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So really it's Misandei's fault... she did say Dracarys! :\
I feel you, Missandei— dracarys to the entire Season (and take Season 7 along with you) LOL (But the show was a lost cause to me by the time the company of dude bros merrily went wight hunting)

If you don’t accept into the convenience of Mary Sue Rey easily mastering everything she touches for plot convenience, then you shouldn't accept into “…but Dany was always like this”. Because in essence, that’s what they turned Dany into by having her “snap": a lazy plot device to move the story along out of convenience. You don’t have her go through a hero’s journey for 7 Seasons, only to have her… snap… two episodes in for the last Season.

And to put her killing spree in context: All those that she ruthlessly killed and/or supported in the killing of, were psychotic slavers, murderers, abusers, tyrants, and dictators. She never once harmed the small folk— and if anything, the everyday people were her motivation to rule over this world. For God’s sake, the woman even chained up her dragons— her only children, because they had killed one small peasant girl while they were on the hunt. By accepting her as a murderer of innocents-- that she always had it in her, then those that served in the military and taken casualties, and all LEO, are all suspects “foreshadowed” to turn into psychopathic killers LOL And my God, Sansa fed Ramsay live to his dogs and walked away with a smirk, and she kept the Vale’s army a secret from Jon, allowing thousands to be killed before coming to the rescue; and that little weirdo psycho Arya’s gleefully poisoned people and fed to Frey his own son before slitting his throat— even threatening Yara openly with "Say one more word about my brother and I'll slit your throat". so they must all “had it in them” to snap? They live in a violent world, all 3 women committed heinous acts of humanity but for very understandable and forgivable reasons to horrible individuals— never civilians. Dany systemically chasing down and burning fleeing unarmed civilians would never be the next “logical” step of her ascension.

It’s such a lazy, trope of a plot device to have Dany murder thousands upon thousands of the defenceless to show she’s irredeemable, therefore must die. The show runners just got bored and wanted to move on to SW... It’s no different than George lazily having Anakin murder baby jedi to show he’s past the point of no return— and just like Dany, it happens in less than 5min LOL… If you didn’t buy Anakin’s turn, you shouldn’t buy Dany’s either.

The irony of all this is that Dany’s 5min turn to The Dark Side is actually the more acceptable plot conveniences of the rest of the story that came after her death. Everything after her death that conspires reads like an episode of South Park… We’re way deep in Rian Jonhson nonsense territory. Oy…
 
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I know that you guys probably don't understand that some of this is spoiler material to some of us. lol I've never seen one episode because it on a Cable channel, but one day I'l like to see it and not know that Carl already died. ;)

Also, it appears that some people went on "vacation" while I was gone. So hopefully we'll get more civil discussions for a spell.
 
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I feel you, Missandei— dracarys to the entire Season (and take Season 7 along with you) LOL (But the show was a lost cause to me by the time the company of dude bros merrily went wight hunting)

If you don’t accept into the convenience of Mary Sue Rey easily mastering everything she touches for plot convenience, then you shouldn't accept into “…but Dany was always like this”. Because in essence, that’s what they turned Dany into by having her “snap": a lazy plot device to move the story along out of convenience. You don’t have her go through a hero’s journey for 7 Seasons, only to have her… snap… two episodes in for the last Season.

And to put her killing spree in context: All those that she ruthlessly killed and/or supported in the killing of, were psychotic slavers, murderers, abusers, tyrants, and dictators. She never once harmed the small folk— and if anything, the everyday people were her motivation to rule over this world. For God’s sake, the woman even chained up her dragons— her only children, because they had killed one small peasant girl while they were on the hunt. By accepting her as a murderer of innocents-- that she always had it in her, then those that served in the military and taken casualties, and all LEO, are all suspects “foreshadowed” to turn into psychopathic killers LOL And my God, Sansa fed Ramsay live to his dogs and walked away with a smirk, and she kept the Vale’s army a secret from Jon, allowing thousands to be killed before coming to the rescue; and that little weirdo psycho Arya’s gleefully poisoned people and fed to Frey his own son before slitting his throat— even threatening Yara openly with "Say one more word about my brother and I'll slit your throat". so they must all “had it in them” to snap? They live in a violent world, all 3 women committed heinous acts of humanity but for very understandable and forgivable reasons to horrible individuals— never civilians. Dany systemically chasing down and burning fleeing unarmed civilians would never be the next “logical” step of her ascension.

It’s such a lazy, trope of a plot device to have Dany murder thousands upon thousands of the defenceless to show she’s irredeemable, therefore must die. The show runners just got bored and wanted to move on to SW... It’s no different than George lazily having Anakin murder baby jedi to show he’s past the point of no return— and just like Dany, it happens in less than 5min LOL… If you didn’t buy Anakin’s turn, you shouldn’t buy Dany’s either.

The irony of all this is that Dany’s 5min turn to The Dark Side is actually the more acceptable plot conveniences of the rest of the story that came after her death. Everything after her death that conspires reads like an episode of South Park… We’re way deep in Rian Jonhson nonsense territory. Oy…
Everyone in this story did awful things. It is jarring that a character can change like Dany did, but I find it part of the story that you have some ambiguity and you don't always see it coming. Ramsey had it coming for sure. Frey may not have deserved the horror he got, but if someone murdered my mother?....... I'd high five Arya after her choice. She at least trained to be a killer.

Movies have a way of making a twist work where a character isn't what they seem when they only have around 2 hours to sell it. The Usual Suspects, Sixth Sense, Primal Fear, Frozen, Toy Story 3, Zootopia, Monsters Inc., Coco, <<Sheesh Disney...

I guess the differences I see between what Game of Thrones did and what Star Wars has done with Anakin and what Rian Johnson did with Ep VIII are thus:
1) We knew Anakin was Darth Vader... that's a big difference. Certainly the way he turned could have been done better. His final turn was too abrupt really, but like Dany many felt the story should have been better. Anakin was always going to turn though... Dany, not everyone knew how it would turn out.
2) From 1977-1983 and on to the end of 2017 which is almost 40 years we had one view of Luke Skywalker. Irreproachable hero... he was THE hero that would put his life on the line to save his friends and his family. Rian Johnson decided he knew something about Luke's character that no one had seen before. I can say that Luke "COULD" have decided it was best for everyone that he not train more jedi and that he not be involved in things due to his power being too great and his ability to teach not so great. However, he was still Luke Skywalker and that character would not have abandoned those he cared about after a failure. That is the Rian Johnson territory that people don't accept.
3) Dany was a favorite character for many from the beginning (in that way similar to Luke), you can't say that about Anakin. Vader maybe, because of his coolness. Anakin become much better liked through the Clone Wars, but there was still always the looming darkness. Dany had that darkness (in that way not similar to Luke).
 
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Everyone in this story did awful things. It is jarring that a character can change like Dany did, but I find it part of the story that you have some ambiguity and you don't always see it coming. Ramsey had it coming for sure. Frey may not have deserved the horror he got, but if someone murdered my mother?....... I'd high five Arya after her choice. She at least trained to be a killer.

Movies have a way of making a twist work where a character isn't what they seem when they only have around 2 hours to sell it. The Usual Suspects, Sixth Sense, Primal Fear, Frozen, Toy Story 3, Zootopia, Monsters Inc., Coco, <<Sheesh Disney...

I guess the differences I see between what Game of Thrones did and what Star Wars has done with Anakin and what Rian Johnson did with Ep VIII are thus:
1) We knew Anakin was Darth Vader... that's a big difference. Certainly the way he turned could have been done better. His final turn was too abrupt really, but like Dany many felt the story should have been better. Anakin was always going to turn though... Dany, not everyone knew how it would turn out.
2) From 1977-1983 and on to the end of 2017 which is almost 40 years we had one view of Luke Skywalker. Irreproachable hero... he was THE hero that would put his life on the line to save his friends and his family. Rian Johnson decided he knew something about Luke's character that no one had seen before. I can say that Luke "COULD" have decided it was best for everyone that he not train more jedi and that he not be involved in things due to his power being too great and his ability to teach not so great. However, he was still Luke Skywalker and that character would not have abandoned those he cared about after a failure. That is the Rian Johnson territory that people don't accept.
3) Dany was a favorite character for many from the beginning (in that way similar to Luke), you can't say that about Anakin. Vader maybe, because of his coolness. Anakin become much better liked through the Clone Wars, but there was still always the looming darkness. Dany had that darkness (in that way not similar to Luke).
It was established in The Force Awakens that Luke had "given up". His nephew turned to the dark side, destroyed the jedi temple, turned several of Luke's other students to the dark side, and slaughtered the rest. After that Luke is never seen again for years. Not sure how it could be taken any other way than he'd given up. If he hadn't given up then he would've been at the forefront of The Force Awakens leading the fight against evil.
 
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It was established in The Force Awakens that Luke had "given up". His nephew turned to the dark side, destroyed the jedi temple, turned several of Luke's other students to the dark side, and slaughtered the rest. After that Luke is never seen again for years. Not sure how it could be taken any other way than he'd given up. If he hadn't given up then he would've been at the forefront of The Force Awakens leading the fight against evil.
When Han told the newbies about Luke, I gathered that it was his opinion on how things went. Never thought of it as established knowledge, or as they say in GOT "It is known". But it's been a while since I saw it, so I might remember it differently.
I guess Luke became a metaphor for getting old and lazy, IDGAF-ish. His youthful spirit was quenched.
 
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It wasn't explicitly stated but it makes sense to me. Evil rises 5 years or less prior to The Force Awakens and Luke skips town.
 
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I always thought he was meant to be off being heroic and looking for hidden ancient artefacts to help in the fight against the new enemy, given that his attempts to use the ways he knew failed with Kylo. That would have been more in-character with who I knew than some mid-life crisis/ moral-weakness thing going off.
 
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It was established in The Force Awakens that Luke had "given up". His nephew turned to the dark side, destroyed the jedi temple, turned several of Luke's other students to the dark side, and slaughtered the rest. After that Luke is never seen again for years. Not sure how it could be taken any other way than he'd given up. If he hadn't given up then he would've been at the forefront of The Force Awakens leading the fight against evil.

Do we know the bolded part for sure? I know it's been speculated often that the KoR are former students of Luke who took off with Kylo, but in other reports, the KoR or some of them don't have any force powers.
 
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I always thought he was meant to be off being heroic and looking for hidden ancient artefacts to help in the fight against the new enemy, given that his attempts to use the ways he knew failed with Kylo. That would have been more in-character with who I knew than some mid-life crisis/ moral-weakness thing going off.
Agreed...............
A
 
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It was established in The Force Awakens that Luke had "given up". His nephew turned to the dark side, destroyed the jedi temple, turned several of Luke's other students to the dark side, and slaughtered the rest. After that Luke is never seen again for years. Not sure how it could be taken any other way than he'd given up. If he hadn't given up then he would've been at the forefront of The Force Awakens leading the fight against evil.
From TFA:
HAN: He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible... He walked away from everything. FINN: Do you know what happened to him? HAN: There're a lot of rumors. Stories. The people who knew him the best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.

30 years is established between ROTJ and TFA. Ben Solo was born 1 year after ROTJ, so at the start of TFA he is 29. In the novels it is established that Luke's Jedi were still around 6 years before the events of TFA, so Kylo was around 23 before he turned, and in that sense, Luke has only been "vanished" for around 6 years. Kylo "Destroyed it All" so it sounds like Luke didn't have any other Masters yet and all the other jedi were gone... hence "the last jedi". The Knights of Ren could have some force sensitives in it and all, but they aren't jedi... yet.

I never felt in TFA that Luke had "Given Up". Yes, he walked away, but who wouldn't at that point? The galaxy is building, he decides they don't really need jedi. Ben Solo was someone he would have to face eventually, but he needed to go away. If you are as famous as Luke Skywalker and you have such a prominent failure... you go away.

In TFA (again around 6 years after Luke left) we see the First Order is just testing it's new weapon which Luke would have no knowledge of, especially since he was shut off from the force (probably for many reasons, but not least of all would be to not be detected by anyone ... Leia, etc)

Yes he may have been disheartened, but until TLJ, I didn't think he was running away to die.
 
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Do we know the bolded part for sure? I know it's been speculated often that the KoR are former students of Luke who took off with Kylo, but in other reports, the KoR or some of them don't have any force powers.
In The Last Jedi Luke said something along the lines of "he took several of my students with him."
 
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I always thought he was meant to be off being heroic and looking for hidden ancient artefacts to help in the fight against the new enemy, given that his attempts to use the ways he knew failed with Kylo. That would have been more in-character with who I knew than some mid-life crisis/ moral-weakness thing going off.
It could have meant the above easily.

There's nothing explicitly said in 'The Force Awakens' that he was off in Kerry being a miserable bugger.
 
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In The Last Jedi Luke said something along the lines of "he took several of my students with him."
I'll have to take your word for it. I only saw the film once and I've done my best to forget as much of it as possible.:p
I
 
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I always thought he was meant to be off being heroic and looking for hidden ancient artefacts to help in the fight against the new enemy, given that his attempts to use the ways he knew failed with Kylo. That would have been more in-character with who I knew than some mid-life crisis/ moral-weakness thing going off.
Yes he may have been disheartened, but until TLJ, I didn't think he was running away to die.

I never got the impression that Luke gave up in TFA.

Yes, I agree with all three of you. I never had the impression Luke had given up. I figured he was just biding his time when to come back and help.
 
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I'll have to take your word for it. I only saw the film once and I've done my best to forget as much of it as possible.:p
I
Like frequenting a Star Wars message board where the movie is discussed regularly? Good thinking.
 
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