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Repro question for 2021 Collectors
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Some of the custom offerings are insanely awesome as well, Just bought a vac metal black death star droid.
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The majority of dinosaur exhibits are 100% reproduction. I worked in museums forever, I basically view myself as curating my own little Star Wars Micro Collection museum exhibits in my house.
I view it as reenacting the 1980's. Reenactment muskets and swords and armor are COOL AS HECK even though they aren't original. I have no concept that that repro are real or complete. They're just plain FUN. If you handed a ziploc bag of repro weapons to a kid, they'd say "Awesome!" and start arming up their action figures. I am the same way, though, it irks me that repro accessories are in Kenner-accurate colors. The lightsabers should be transparent blue or red, the guns should be a dark metallic silver color, etc.
Me too. I only collect the Micro Collection, and since it's a small line I have totally unqualified love for it. Real, custom, reproduction, preproduction, bootleg, I don't care. If it's Micro Collection (and especially Hoth Ion Cannon), I'm in! Since reproduction 4-ups are readily identifiable as repro I love them too. They're typically the wrong color, noticeably too lightweight, and of obviously lower detail and casting quality (ie, a double mold line) from originals.
Despite my general aversions, if prices keep going up I'm gonna sell my childhood accessories and replace them with repro. It's ****ing stressful to think I could loose $400 by dropping a toy weapon in a shag carpet. I probably have two dozen or so original blasters, lightsabers, etc. and it's getting to where I could conceivably cash them all out to buy another real 4-up! I think I'd rather have the 4-up.
And this gets to the crux of the matter: if prices get too high, more of the objects WILL come to market, genuine, repro, or otherwise. This is a feature of economics that cannot be avoided.
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As a collector, I was never one to be a completionist or a "burn all the repros" type. From what I've seen here and other forums, I do not believe I will find any original weapons or accessories and will not pay original prices for any of them. They are too easy to reproduce and there are probably 50 repros for every original that was made by now....
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Unlikely. Kenner made millions of figures and the repros are pretty small operators compared to Kenner.
The problem is finding them. The repros are easier to find.
I know where a ton of them are... The landfill. If you dig through all the discarded vacuum cleaner bags.
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After rereading the first page of comments, I think I will summarize my feelings on this as "Do what you want for your collection, but don't try to sell repro parts as genuine originals."
Completely agree. I wish they would just put an R where the fig grips the weapon. That way it does not detract from the displayibility, but is clearly marked.
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And thus I inadvertently became an expert on vacuum cleaner bags, and could tell at a glance of a given bag was likely to date to the late 70’s/early 80’s, or if it should be ignored for the sake of minimizing my time digging in the landfill.
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I guess I'm just a snob but I hear of these places I think "what makes them an authority?" Did these people get PhD's in American Art History and do their dissertation on postwar plastic action figures? Was that dissertation about advertising for action figures or was it about manufacturing them or what? Did they they follow that up with 15 years of fieldwork evaluating action figures for Christie's Auction House? Probably not. Knowing how much work it takes to obtain something akin to actual expertise on any subject I find it unlikely they can manage to keep track of Star Wars, GI Joe, He-Man, Dungeons & Dragons, Starting Lineup, Super Powers, bootlegs, etc. Couple normal rates of human error with a profit incentive (time is money) and the idea that things would slip past the graders (repros, or even just the "wrong" accessory) becomes inevitable.
There's some value in having it sealed with a serial number, but, not much to me.
I just live in the camp where I believe they cease to be action figures any more, and are just a piece of art.
I'm in that same Art Camp.
Ever see people try to display their graded stuff? In my opinion they do not look as fun or interesting. Rather have this...
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But how will you know how much to like it if there’s no number on it?
there are plenty of numbers on mine...1977, 1980, 1983, 1985
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Some people collect for aesthetics (so the repros wouldn’t matter to them). Some people collect for playability (so the repros wouldn’t matter to them). Some people collect to make money through investment (so repros in fact would matter to them). Some people collect as curators of history (so repros in fact would matter to them). I’m sure there are lots of other reasons.
I can say all of my Kenner figs which I keep displayed as collection figures in the detolf are 100% legitimate. I wanted it that way. But my Stansolo and customs use repros. Most of the figures in my displays are Retro collection. So I am in a couple of your camps. It would be nice to have all originals, but buying say a Vader for each display would get out of hand really fast financially. 1 for his Tie fighter, 1 for the Death Star, 1 for the Star Destroyer, 1 for the attack base, and 1 for the fig case...that's a lot of dough that can be better served elsewhere.
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I put myself in the curator camp, and repros have their place in curating actual museum collections. So... yeah I like them.
If you're collecting as an investment (as long as they can be identified) repros RAISE values, not lower them. They're advertising for the real thing, essentially. It bugs me to no end that the invesotr-collectors hate repros. Anyone can reproduce a Honus Wagner (or any other rare baseball card) nowdays with ordinary home office software and printer. Hasn't hurt the value in the least. Mark my words, 3D printing will soon enable even a relatively unskilled person to reproduce all the plastic toys.
People who collect for a sense of superiority ("No one has one but me!") seem to be the ones to lose out biggest with repros.
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There’s a difference between what museums own and what is part of their collection. Repro items aren’t always given accession numbers. They’re not technically part of the collection, they’re just stuff that belongs to the education department, the marketing department, or what have you.
Museums don’t usually go out of the way to collect and properly catalog repros unless they are very big ticket items that are part of an exhibit. They collect real things, and use repro things.
I am neither proud of nor ashamed of my repros. I COLLECT originals and USE repros. If other people want to collect repros that just leaves more originals for me.
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Thanks. Yeah like I wouldn't see a point in displaying a bunch of repros unless it was part of a carefully designed display that the repro served some kind of purpose. I'm not morally opposed to them but they're a good way to accidentally fill one's house with a bunch of cheap junk.
If, for example, I put together a cabinet in which to display my real, unpainted, unreleased, Kenner Micro figures, I would have no problem using fake 4-ups and a few Kim Simmons prints to contextualize those pieces.
On the other hand, if I put up a bunch of thin yellow shelves to nake myself a giant carback on which to display "All 93" I would not bother with Stan Solo type items. Why bother? I am frankly undecided if I'd use repro accessories in such a display.
Then again if I (for whatever reason) was to create such a giant carback for public display use in, I don't know, a Star Wars themed restaurant or something, the first thing I'd do is put in 12 Retro Series and go with repro accessories all around and I'd probably make it a 65 or 77 back to avoid the highest price items. Things that are subjected to the dire abuses of the general public are different than home displays (or off-display museum collections).
It's all about the purpose. I don't really care if people use repros. However I'm not going to grant someone my respect as a fellow collector for simply dropping a bunch of money on readily found repros or reissues. I use repros for fun or utilitarian reasons. I think I've proven myself a "real" collector by spending the money to buy a real 4-up, and spending the time to find two Micro Collection sign-off samples (and a Luke prototype) virtually in the wild. It was eBay but these items weren't listed as what they actually are. I just check all the auctions every day for every search term I can think of. The sign-off samples were being sold as ordinary playsets. The Luke prototype was in a batch of 80's lead gaming minis.
True collectors are like the Indiana Jones of pop culture. I use the "Terms" trick too, and misplaced accessories netted me a few things I wanted. I do get lucky from time to time and find bargains in the wild, but getting an Endor Leia paired with a black Blaster, that's what keeps me going...lol
"Fortune and Glory kid... Fortune and Glory"
It does make me a little pissed off though that these people that just start buying without knowing the woes and triumphs can throw a pile of money and just complete a set, without actually knowing the products. These are repro marks that fallen victim made incidents lately.
"Fortune and Glory kid... Fortune and Glory"
It does make me a little pissed off though that these people that just start buying without knowing the woes and triumphs can throw a pile of money and just complete a set, without actually knowing the products. These are repro marks that fallen victim made incidents lately.
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@Lobotscomb don’t be pissed that they don’t know the woes and triumphs. This means these overpaid undertaxed techies are also DENIED the woes and triumphs.
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Also @Lobotscomb. I can give you the address of an abandoned house in PA where a black Leia blaster is presumably still somewhere in the shag carpet of the closet, on the second story.
ROFL, Belloq would just be at the front door anyway...
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I unexpectedly found it in the accessories compartment of our Vader Head carrying case when we moved there. IMMEDIATELY dropped it and never found it in the carpet. I am about 90% sure that no vacuum cleaner was run in there in the intervening decades.
This is one reason I am open to the idea of replacing my childhood accessories with repros. I don’t like the idea that I can lose $500 down a crack in the floor.
So how he make all this reproductions and operates legally or star wars estate simply has not cut up with him yet?
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I suspect they don’t care. If he doesn’t release anything x-rated or go after the current stuff, it’s not worth enforcing.
I'm looking forward to his PG-13 Slave Leia.
My worst nightmare just came true
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Maybe it just shows the folly of 1) grading and 2) spending $500 on a tiny little plastic gun that was manufactured in the 10’s of thousands.My worst nightmare just came true
There is a lot of stigma with repros. I can totally understand why some see them as harmful when they are used to deceive buyers. Though I also don't like the whole shaming culture towards those who just want to complete their collection or figure, like it's an illegal act and you're banished for mentioning it. As long as it is logged somewhere (for those who inherit) and there is no deception when selling on then there is no harm done.
I personally started to feel brainwashed into feeling dirty for not paying $100 and up for a black palace blaster when there's a reproduction that looks, floats and sounds like the original and displays just as nice. I started to get a little obsessed and feeling a bit pressured by the stigma thinking everything had to be original and people would look down on me if I had repro items lol! it was becoming very stressful being on ebay and facebook groups all the time and starring at the ridiculous prices in defeat. So much time wasted.
So for me I decided figures need to be original (I have all of them from childhood). I want all unique weapons to be originals, that way I can at least own one original of each, though when it comes to duplicates, especially for lesser valued figures, then I am totally happy with repros if they are pretty much identical to the original and not the tinny sounding, sinking shite versions. At this point it feels like prices are at their premium, so not like the value of a rebel blaster will go up any higher than what I buy it for today. Maybe 10 years ago it would have been a good investment if that's what you also want to buy it for.
Anyway, I'm new here so don't mean to offend anyone, just adding my 2 cents of what I went through with the whole 'originals' obsession
I personally started to feel brainwashed into feeling dirty for not paying $100 and up for a black palace blaster when there's a reproduction that looks, floats and sounds like the original and displays just as nice. I started to get a little obsessed and feeling a bit pressured by the stigma thinking everything had to be original and people would look down on me if I had repro items lol! it was becoming very stressful being on ebay and facebook groups all the time and starring at the ridiculous prices in defeat. So much time wasted.
So for me I decided figures need to be original (I have all of them from childhood). I want all unique weapons to be originals, that way I can at least own one original of each, though when it comes to duplicates, especially for lesser valued figures, then I am totally happy with repros if they are pretty much identical to the original and not the tinny sounding, sinking shite versions. At this point it feels like prices are at their premium, so not like the value of a rebel blaster will go up any higher than what I buy it for today. Maybe 10 years ago it would have been a good investment if that's what you also want to buy it for.
Anyway, I'm new here so don't mean to offend anyone, just adding my 2 cents of what I went through with the whole 'originals' obsession
This has been beat to death but I feel like I have to respond here:
why does the reproduction have to be SOOOO idental that it floats and sounds the same while being dropped? That's where the line is drawn for many people for reproductions, why does there have to be a never ending arms race to get them to be indistinguishable from the original if the intent is not to deceive? If the blaster sounded different when dropped or sank in the water why would that bother you if it was only for your display enjoyment? do you regularly have all your blasters on display floating in a bowl of water?
why does the reproduction have to be SOOOO idental that it floats and sounds the same while being dropped? That's where the line is drawn for many people for reproductions, why does there have to be a never ending arms race to get them to be indistinguishable from the original if the intent is not to deceive? If the blaster sounded different when dropped or sank in the water why would that bother you if it was only for your display enjoyment? do you regularly have all your blasters on display floating in a bowl of water?
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The cat is out of the bag (so to speak) and as long as their is cash to be made, the reproductions will never ever go away. In fact I have seen repro's in one way or another since the 90's and they are now at the point where they are near perfection. A guy at a Toy Show had some new repro's including EV9-D9 and we put it to the original and you could not tell the difference. Same for Yak and Blue Snaggle, Amanaman and a few others.
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If prices get too high, the market WILL create an increased supply. This can be more real ones coming loose from collections, new “real” ones like the Retro line, and yes, repros and counterfeits. This is a law of economics which will be obeyed by the market. If the the prices get too high supply WILL increase.
That's why I have a bunch of loose non mint figs to display with sets
So they can fool us
