Ponda Baba

DarkManX said:
So what's the deal with the extra hands?
Click to expand...

Well the hands? To be honest the reason the extra hands are part of the toys is because of the Holiday Special, and part of the movie. In the movie it looks like the funny looking hands that look like a fish are seen right before Dr.Evazan talks to Luke, however when Ben cuts his hands it looks like a hairy hands with fingers looking like werewolf hands. However in the Holiday Special Ponda have the aqualishe/fish hands.
 
Espi1001 said:
Well the hands? To be honest the reason the extra hands are part of the toys is because of the Holiday Special, and part of the movie. In the movie it looks like the funny looking hands that look like a fish are seen right before Dr.Evazan talks to Luke, however when Ben cuts his hands it looks like a hairy hands with fingers looking like werewolf hands. However in the Holiday Special Ponda have the aqualishe/fish hands.
Click to expand...

gracias! more letters
 
As has been discussed before, Ponda Baba's changing hand(s) in ANH has always been somewhat puzzling. Obviously, when Ponda is first seen in the Cantina (in a wide shot of him & Evazan at the bar, only seen in the Widescreen version of ANH) & when he is shortly after berating Luke - he has flipper hands.

However, after Obi-wan cuts his arm off, the hand is clearly a monster's claw; it's obvious it's Ponda's hand since the orange jacket is the same. I'm guessing the reason this hand was changed was because a flipper hand wouldn't look as impressive as a monster's hand?!

If that was the case, however, why didn't they just use Evazan's hand instead of Ponda's? It seems obvious to me that Obi-wan killed both of them in that scene...
 
Here's Ponda from an early take


There are pics of the severed flipper (I don't have one but they can be found)
But I do have a pic of this alternative take!

 
The hand difference is because they filmed the Cantina sequence originally and then once again in the reshoots so no one was obviously paying much attention.
 
ThallJoben said:
I honestly don't mind the too-small head of this TVC/TBS 3.75" Ponda Baba. It's still a great figure, with amazing detail. And, it's far superior in every way to the '97 POTF2 figure - and I thought the '97 figure was decent when that came out.
Click to expand...

I agree. The head doesn't bother me at all. I really like this figure and it's a perfect example of what Hasbro can do some of these figures as well as including the extra hands and removable arm.

I never thought Ponda Baba actually died. I thought he just got his lower arm cut off.
 
From a screen accuracy standpoint, I totally get why the small head bothers people. I think this was a case of the toy designers trying to do a kind of "real world adjustment" of the character. In other words, Ponda's head in the movie is the size it is mainly because it's a man in a mask. If Ponda Baba was a "real" person, his head would probably be more in proportion with his body (although, maybe members of his species just have really big heads). So I think that's what Hasbro was going for.
 
Utinniii said:
Here's Ponda from an early take


There are pics of the severed flipper (I don't have one but they can be found)
But I do have a pic of this alternative take!

Click to expand...


That's an awesome image I've never seen before! Thanks for sharing that.
 
lister said:
From a screen accuracy standpoint, I totally get why the small head bothers people. I think this was a case of the toy designers trying to do a kind of "real world adjustment" of the character. In other words, Ponda's head in the movie is the size it is mainly because it's a man in a mask. If Ponda Baba was a "real" person, his head would probably be more in proportion with his body (although, maybe members of his species just have really big heads). So I think that's what Hasbro was going for.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The same problem befalls Clones and Stormies with removable helmets. While Ponda's head isn't screen accurate, i can live with it being in scale with his body. Sometimes we take details too far.
 
War_in_The_floor said:
Gotta get a couple of this if I ever see it
Click to expand...


No problem! I still can't find the pic of the severed flipper but it looks identical to the severed hand shot (except for the flipper and I think it is accurately his left arm - not his right.)

If you look at the previous photo you will see that it was in fact his left arm that was severed. I wonder if that is an easy fix for the figure?

They made the shot by cutting a hole in the hoof so the actor could hold the gun.

They made 3 takes (hoof, hand, head) and went with the best one. I think they determined that the head was to gory and the hoof was silly.

I think it says that they were killed (all three originally) but you can hear the cry of pain linger and fade so if you want to believe that they ran out to get a medic or just passed out, it still works.
 
I'll be going with regular hands. The flippers look stupid and star trekish.
 
I never understood the "real world" argument, though. It's basically making everything look the same and defeating the purpose of what makes some aliens different than others. Plus, it's not screen accurate and doesn't reflect what the original creator/designer intended in the first place. Some animals have huge heads. Some don't. So it doesn't really make sense to shrink heads of a character for a figure at all. Plus, why didn't Hasbro apply this to every figure. I think that makes me think it has more to do with something that happened to the original mold they used for casting maybe? The one thing I did actually like about the removable helmet figures was that it forced hasbro to make the helmets bigger and allowed them to be screen accurate. I still can't look at the new Black Series 6" TIE Pilot or AT-AT Driver without thinking the helmets are waaaay too small. It ruins the look in my eyes. Same thing applies to Ponda or Ree Yees or Doallyn or the Tusken figures. We only see those characters with very big heads in the movies. So why would you change that for a figure? What if Hasbro had shrunk down the Royal Guard's helmet or Admiral Akbar's head or any of the Ewok heads? It just doesn't make any sense to do it. The aliens who have giant heads were meant to. Some aliens had normal sized heads in the movies. Even Yoda had a giant sized head, yet there was no human inside him. So that argument is invalid. Boss's head was not overused either. Nor was 4-LOM or Zuckuss. It was the designer's intent to have some helmets/heads be big. I hope Hasbro doesn't decide to try and shrink YakFace's head if and when he ever is updated.

LOL And so concludes my shrunken head rant.
 
Darth_Brett said:
I never understood the "real world" argument, though. It's basically making everything look the same and defeating the purpose of what makes some aliens different than others. Plus, it's not screen accurate and doesn't reflect what the original creator/designer intended in the first place. Some animals have huge heads. Some don't. So it doesn't really make sense to shrink heads of a character for a figure at all. Plus, why didn't Hasbro apply this to every figure. I think that makes me think it has more to do with something that happened to the original mold they used for casting maybe? The one thing I did actually like about the removable helmet figures was that it forced hasbro to make the helmets bigger and allowed them to be screen accurate. I still can't look at the new Black Series 6" TIE Pilot or AT-AT Driver without thinking the helmets are waaaay too small. It ruins the look in my eyes. Same thing applies to Ponda or Ree Yees or Doallyn or the Tusken figures. We only see those characters with very big heads in the movies. So why would you change that for a figure? What if Hasbro had shrunk down the Royal Guard's helmet or Admiral Akbar's head or any of the Ewok heads? It just doesn't make any sense to do it. The aliens who have giant heads were meant to. Some aliens had normal sized heads in the movies. Even Yoda had a giant sized head, yet there was no human inside him. So that argument is invalid. Boss's head was not overused either. Nor was 4-LOM or Zuckuss. It was the designer's intent to have some helmets/heads be big. I hope Hasbro doesn't decide to try and shrink YakFace's head if and when he ever is updated.

LOL And so concludes my shrunken head rant.
Click to expand...

I wasn't necessarily defending the decision, just pointing out that that may have been the thinking behind it.

Now, if we're talking about helmets, I definitely agree with you. In the case of someone like Doallyn, the character is wearing a helmet and so is the actor. So in those instances, the figure should absolutely represent what we see onscreen. But if we're talking about characters being played by actors wearing masks that are meant to be those characters' actual heads, then it's a different set of circumstances. There is a distinction there.
 
Utinniii said:
No problem! I still can't find the pic of the severed flipper but it looks identical to the severed hand shot (except for the flipper and I think it is accurately his left arm - not his right.)

If you look at the previous photo you will see that it was in fact his left arm that was severed. I wonder if that is an easy fix for the figure?

They made the shot by cutting a hole in the hoof so the actor could hold the gun.

They made 3 takes (hoof, hand, head) and went with the best one. I think they determined that the head was to gory and the hoof was silly.

I think it says that they were killed (all three originally) but you can hear the cry of pain linger and fade so if you want to believe that they ran out to get a medic or just passed out, it still works.
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure that's right. My understanding is that first, they filmed his head get cut off (note that this is all as insert shots- you never see what happened to him other than whichever part they filmed lying on the floor).

That was either too gory or didn't look right for other reasons. So they deleted the cut off head insert and filmed his cut off arm (with flipper). Then Lucas thought it seemed like an unjustified violence by Obi-Wan since the guy only pushed Luke. So the solution was to give Ponda a gun, showing that if Ben hadn't acted, Luke would have been shot. Problem: Ponda had flippers and couldn't hold a gun! So they filmed a third insert shot with a wolf man hand and hoped nobody would notice that in the actual scene, his hands were different. The actor playing Ponda never wore anything but flippers and never held a gun. This was all done in post production.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DarkManX said:
I'll be going with regular hands. The flippers look stupid and star trekish.
Click to expand...

*looks directly at Ackbar* :hmm:

;)

Besides i wouldn't call them flippers, more like hooves. And it's been a very long time since I've seen Star Trek, so I can't say either way if it is or not trekish. But we also have to assume that not every species in the universe is going to have traditional Human fingers. Whether it be in a Fantasy or Science based fiction.
 
Masterfett said:
*looks directly at Ackbar* :hmm:

;)

Besides i wouldn't call them flippers, more like hooves. And it's been a very long time since I've seen Star Trek, so I can't say either way if it is or not trekish. But we also have to assume that not every species in the universe is going to have traditional Human fingers. Whether it be in a Fantasy or Science based fiction.
Click to expand...

lol I loved Ackbar though! his fish hands felt right, the walrus man hooves just look funky to me. Not a big fan of rathars and Saw's telepath gooball either. Some things don't "feel star wars" to me and like obscenity, I know it when I see it.B) But hey, it's a huge universe and you won't like everything in it.
 
gonkgonkgonk said:
I'm not quite sure that's right. My understanding is that first, they filmed his head get cut off (note that this is all as insert shots- you never see what happened to him other than whichever part they filmed lying on the floor).

That was either too gory or didn't look right for other reasons. So they deleted the cut off head insert and filmed his cut off arm (with flipper). Then Lucas thought it seemed like an unjustified violence by Obi-Wan since the guy only pushed Luke. So the solution was to give Ponda a gun, showing that if Ben hadn't acted, Luke would have been shot. Problem: Ponda had flippers and couldn't hold a gun! So they filmed a third insert shot with a wolf man hand and hoped nobody would notice that in the actual scene, his hands were different. The actor playing Ponda never wore anything but flippers and never held a gun. This was all done in post production.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I could have some details messed up (my memory is crap!)
What I do know is that in the original take he had a flipper hand and he held a gun. Even in the released version he taps Luke with a flipper and when Luke falls, he has flippers (hooves).

I heard that they made a slit in the hoof so the fingers could hold the gun.

While the pictures of the severed limb might have been done in post production, the pic of the severed arm I used above was on set. The Gator head on the wall behind him proves that. (The USA reshoots was just an alcove).


As an aside, I love how they just cut off the other jacket arm for the Holiday special!
 
well looking at the hooved/flipper hand pic on previous page, Ponda should be able to use a blaster w/ those "alien" paws afterall, he's wearing a belt and pants that look to have a zipper....just saying
 
I also wonder how he could put his hooves through that jacket!

If it hasn't been said before, they are the same hands as Tizivitizitizit (sp)
 
Out of curiosity, where did this idea they're "hooves" come from?? They're obviously flippers (you can see they're flat and flexible in some set pics) and I mean, his name is Walrus Man!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I used hoof to include another poster that used the term. I think hoof is generally used since the shape is more hoof like than flipper. Further, flies don't have flippers (or hooves for that matter) but Wilosea has them as well.

IDR if "hoof" was used by the production people or in source books.

IDK if they were created specifically for one alien or not. Myo (and others) used "It?" gloves, Jawas and Kabe used Planet of the Apes gloves and I think the Rodian gloves were built on the fly (expression-not alien!). We see pics of Greedo with Duros hands (and high heels to boot!)
 
Well, with all that Lightsaber action, "someone" else arm could have been severed as well. So when the close-up happened, it may not have even been his arm in the shot. lol
Maybe Wolfman got to close to the action
 
Utinniii said:
I used hoof to include another poster that used the term. I think hoof is generally used since the shape is more hoof like than flipper. Further, flies don't have flippers (or hooves for that matter) but Wilosea has them as well.

IDR if "hoof" was used by the production people or in source books.

IDK if they were created specifically for one alien or not. Myo (and others) used "It?" gloves, Jawas and Kabe used Planet of the Apes gloves and I think the Rodian gloves were built on the fly (expression-not alien!). We see pics of Greedo with Duros hands (and high heels to boot!)
Click to expand...

Hmm, I guess for the fly alien you could sort of think of them like suction cups...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
gonkgonkgonk said:
I'm not quite sure that's right. My understanding is that first, they filmed his head get cut off (note that this is all as insert shots- you never see what happened to him other than whichever part they filmed lying on the floor).

That was either too gory or didn't look right for other reasons. So they deleted the cut off head insert and filmed his cut off arm (with flipper). Then Lucas thought it seemed like an unjustified violence by Obi-Wan since the guy only pushed Luke. So the solution was to give Ponda a gun, showing that if Ben hadn't acted, Luke would have been shot. Problem: Ponda had flippers and couldn't hold a gun! So they filmed a third insert shot with a wolf man hand and hoped nobody would notice that in the actual scene, his hands were different. The actor playing Ponda never wore anything but flippers and never held a gun. This was all done in post production.
Click to expand...

Interesting, because it's never been clear WHAT exactly happened in that scene. I think anyone watching this realized that Luke was in mortal danger after Ponda pushed him, since I could swear that Dr. Evazan pulled a gun in that scene (though I would have to go back & freeze-frame this to be sure). The bartender yells out "No blasters!" and since we know neither Luke or Obi-wan carry a blaster, it's clear that it would have to be either Ponda or Evazan he was referring to. I also get the impression that Obi-wan either killed or seriously injured them both, though in the aftermath we only see Ponda's arm. And, yes, I agree it's supposed to be Ponda's arm due to the orange jump-suit sleeve, since Evazan had on a normal white/tan shirt.
 
ThallJoben said:
Interesting, because it's never been clear WHAT exactly happened in that scene. I think anyone watching this realized that Luke was in mortal danger after Ponda pushed him, since I could swear that Dr. Evazan pulled a gun in that scene (though I would have to go back & freeze-frame this to be sure). The bartender yells out "No blasters!" and since we know neither Luke or Obi-wan carry a blaster, it's clear that it would have to be either Ponda or Evazan he was referring to. I also get the impression that Obi-wan either killed or seriously injured them both, though in the aftermath we only see Ponda's arm. And, yes, I agree it's supposed to be Ponda's arm due to the orange jump-suit sleeve, since Evazan had on a normal white/tan shirt.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I wonder if "no blasters" was inserted during post along with the new arm & blaster shot. Have to back and look - do we see Wuher actually say "no blasters" or is it dubbed over the action? The fact you remember someone pulling a blaster means Lucas' revision worked - it makes it seem like "Ponda shot first" even though it was filmed with Obi-Wan striking preemptively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ThallJoben said:
Interesting, because it's never been clear WHAT exactly happened in that scene. I think anyone watching this realized that Luke was in mortal danger after Ponda pushed him, since I could swear that Dr. Evazan pulled a gun in that scene (though I would have to go back & freeze-frame this to be sure). The bartender yells out "No blasters!" and since we know neither Luke or Obi-wan carry a blaster, it's clear that it would have to be either Ponda or Evazan he was referring to. I also get the impression that Obi-wan either killed or seriously injured them both, though in the aftermath we only see Ponda's arm. And, yes, I agree it's supposed to be Ponda's arm due to the orange jump-suit sleeve, since Evazan had on a normal white/tan shirt.
Click to expand...

The sequence of edits also shows Lucas progressively trying to tone down the violence. First Obi-Wan cuts off his head. Then his arm, which may not be fatal. Then his arm holding a blaster - non fatal AND in clearer self defense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In all seriousness, here is the actual cantina scene - start watching @ 2:06 in this clip, when Evazan pushes Luke into the table. Wuher does yell out "no blasters", but it turns out that Evazan is obviously the one that pulls the gun & it appears that Obi-wan lops off Evazan's arm, not Ponda's....so, why did they show Ponda's severed arm on the ground, with the wrong hand?! This does definitely seem like sloppy editing here, but it's not something I noticed the first umpteen times I saw the film - LOL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qc6zfoxlJU
 
Actually original the scene was shot with Luke and Obi wan walking into the cantina. At this point in the story Luke (and the audience) is still unsure of Obi wans abilities. To prove himself Obi Wan decapitates Ponda randomly. Wuher shouts "no blasters" As Evazan pulls out his blaster, Obi wan stabs Wuher and Evazan in one fast move. Luke is shocked and terrified. Han is watching all of this, thus his skepticism towards Obi wan later in the film. These scenes were reshot with some of the elements still appearing in the final version of the film. Obviously the violence was toned down.
 
Julythrunov said:
Actually original the scene was shot with Luke and Obi wan walking into the cantina. At this point in the story Luke (and the audience) is still unsure of Obi wans abilities. To prove himself Obi Wan decapitates Ponda randomly. Wuher shouts "no blasters" As Evazan pulls out his blaster, Obi wan stabs Wuher and Evazan in one fast move. Luke is shocked and terrified. Han is watching all of this, thus his skepticism towards Obi wan later in the film. These scenes were reshot with some of the elements still appearing in the final version of the film. Obviously the violence was toned down.
Click to expand...

Glad this was modified here, because the scene described above makes Obi-wan look like a heartless killer who started the fight by chopping off Ponda's arm for no reason.

The way the scene plays out in the actual film, however, it's extremely obvious that Evazan/Ponda start the fight; Obi-wan tries to "deflate" the situation by offering to buy Evazan a drink, and at that point Evazan loses it & shoves Luke into the table, obviously so he can draw his gun on Obi-wan. At that point, Obi-wan has no choice but to defend himself (and Luke), hence drawing the lightsaber & taking out both of them.
 
I kind of got the feeling he was using sarcasm. That does not sound like Obi-Wan at all, or a Jedi for that matter.
 
Right - it's just tough sometimes to tell if someone is using sarcasm online, since there's no context. I myself use sarcasm a lot in real life, but people can usually tell - LOL.

Now, if this had been April Fool's Day (it's not), I may have read this differently...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Kooshmeister
WTB Imperial Navy Commander, TIE Fighter Pilot, etc.
Replies
9
Views
2K
Mando_Dave
M
GNT
Shadow of The Empire Want List
2
Replies
48
Views
4K
Darkart99
D
GNT
2024 - Reflection on the Black Series line this year
Replies
27
Views
2K
Coloring
C
GNT
The Ronin & R5-D56
2
Replies
63
Views
6K
Coloring
C
GNT
Baylan Skoll (Mercenary) - Ahsoka#13
2
Replies
59
Views
6K
CharlesUlysses
CharlesUlysses
Back
Top