Palitoy Vinyl Cape Jawa

[Lafos]

Just another fake - keep your hands off !

ebay

 

[Grant]

well spotted Lafos.

Grant.

 

[danaustin1975]

mr_palitoy showed me this this morning, we were questioning it, and wondered why its a flip image of the close up of the figure and bubble.

I wonder who would pay over a grand for a re-seal? Any takers lol?

 

[mr_palitoy]

The last one on ebay which had a door cut in the back of the card went for a bit more than a loose mint VC jawa. The buyer threw the packaging away as he was only after the figure!

Jason

 

[DarthWensleydale]

The last one on ebay which had a door cut in the back of the card went for a bit more than a loose mint VC jawa. The buyer threw the packaging away as he was only after the figure!

Jason

I recall just missing out on that, but I was never going to pay more than a loose figure and cardback price for it.

Yes this one is a reseal (which is explicitly stated), but a fake? Who knows?

 

[_Lee_]

This figure never existed on a Palitoy 12 back anyway

 

[Joe_O]

Some rather lengthy discussion going on over on swf.co.uk about it, real or not!

 

[HeroSolo]

This figure never existed on a Palitoy 12 back anyway

aaahhhh!,but how do you know

?

 

[_Lee_]

This figure never existed on a Palitoy 12 back anyway

aaahhhh!,but how do you know

?

Haha,yeah i know.Lets just say its one of those legends started by a collector here in the UK whos credability is basically crud

*COUGH'LUMINOUS BEINGS'COUGH*

Its miraculous how all these rarities/do they exists pop up in the hands of complusive bull crappers and rip off merchants

 

[HeroSolo]

This figure never existed on a Palitoy 12 back anyway

aaahhhh!,but how do you know

?

Haha,yeah i know.Lets just say its one of those legends started by a collector here in the UK whos credability is basically crud

*COUGH'LUMINOUS BEINGS'COUGH*

Its miraculous how all these rarities/do they exists pop up in the hands of complusive bull crappers and rip off merchants

True!.

I myself don't believe there was ever a carded VC Jawa on a Palitoy card.
But thats just my opinion

Gary

 

[Lee_Bullock]

I have seen the reseal figure in question and I saw nothing about it that suggested tampering.

1. The bubble is correct for a vinyl cape, and it is from the card in question
2. The source of the card came from a childhood collection that included reseals of the other 11 figures all resealed the same way.
3. The figures were not resealed by somebody with collector experience, card footers were left out and included in the accompanied playset box, and was resealed with cellotape
4. The Jawa cape was correct as was the gun
5. The Jawa also included the plastic separation sheet common on figures with vinyl capes to stop the cape sticking to the card.
6. The collection has no connection with Torres - so that is a moot point.
People can argue this forever, but things do turn up that havent been seen before even by experienced dealers and collectors. Jim S saw the piece on the same day and saw no issues with it either. For the record it was a 12b back like the other reseal found (the Torres sourced MOC was also 12b but of course we shall discount that).

Lee

 

[Joe_O]

Lee who were all the people who inspected this item?

I found this quite interesting and also quite an unheard of kind of proposition : "I WOULD PREFER THE WINNING BIDDER TO PICK THIS UP FROM MY HOME ,WHERE IT CAN BE EXAMINED AT LENGTH ,I WILL ONLY CONCLUDE THE SALE WHEN THE WINNER IS TOTALLY SATISFIED WITH THE CARDED JAWA AS FOR CONDITION"

I really, really can't get my head round the lack of detailed pictures, as I said on the other forum regardless who has seen it and who hasn't in person, huge pictures would speak volumes..

Even using ebay it would only cost you £1 or so to put 6 huge pictures on that auction and let people decide for themselves and be able to study things from their own home (be a bit of a waste of petrol if the winning bidder is 300 miles away and wasn't happy when they got to inspect it)

 

[Lee_Bullock]

Lee who were all the people who inspected this item?

I found this quite interesting and also quite an unheard of kind of proposition : "I WOULD PREFER THE WINNING BIDDER TO PICK THIS UP FROM MY HOME ,WHERE IT CAN BE EXAMINED AT LENGTH ,I WILL ONLY CONCLUDE THE SALE WHEN THE WINNER IS TOTALLY SATISFIED WITH THE CARDED JAWA AS FOR CONDITION"

I really, really can't get my head round the lack of detailed pictures, as I said on the other forum regardless who has seen it and who hasn't in person, huge pictures would speak volumes..

Even using ebay it would only cost you £1 or so to put 6 huge pictures on that auction and let people decide for themselves and be able to study things from their own home (be a bit of a waste of petrol if the winning bidder is 300 miles away and wasn't happy when they got to inspect it)

Me and Jim Stevenson.

 

[CaptainTypho]

What about the Jawa being on a 12B-back card ? wasn´t the Jawa supposed to be one of the earliest figures ? I can´t check what back the (cloth cape) Jawa I have is on ?

It would be insane if a VC Jawa ´d turn up, insanely cool and insanely frustrating, leaving a few people with incomplete runs again

Michael

 

[_Lee_]

I have seen the reseal figure in question and I saw nothing about it that suggested tampering.

1. The bubble is correct for a vinyl cape, and it is from the card in question what proof?
2. The source of the card came from a childhood collection that included reseals of the other 11 figures all resealed the same way. How many times have we heard that before?
3. The figures were not resealed by somebody with collector experience, card footers were left out and included in the accompanied playset box, and was resealed with cellotape They make it look like that?
4. The Jawa cape was correct as was the gun Not hard to do
5. The Jawa also included the plastic separation sheet common on figures with vinyl capes to stop the cape sticking to the card A lot of figures had these.Its possible this was taken from elsewhere.
6. The collection has no connection with Torres - so that is a moot point. That bloke is/was a [censored] and always will be.He was one of the first to start the rumour of this figure existing.

People can argue this forever, but things do turn up that havent been seen before even by experienced dealers and collectors. Jim S saw the piece on the same day and saw no issues with it either. For the record it was a 12b back like the other reseal found (the Torres sourced MOC was also 12b but of course we shall discount that).

Lee

I still dont beleive it Lee.People will go to great lenghts to do such things.All the reasons you put are understandable but can be deceiveing in most circumstances.There just isnt enough evidence to substantiate the claims that the VC Jawa was released in the UK on a Palitoy card.

And also if it is real,why take so long to unearth it? Ive said it once before and ill say it again,these figures only started to come to light when the Palitoy VC theory started.

'Joe Bloggs the collector goes to buy a collection from the paper,and bang-he finds a Palitoy 12 back VC Jawa staring at him'

But the real scenario is that he sees it as a way of making money and being the finder of this rare figure

Not being funny mate,but i dont think you can ever say this figure came from this card.It just doesnt make sense.If a sealed one were to be found( NOT IN TORRES'S HANDS )then maybe some more light could be shed,until then im a non-beleiver.

 

[CLONERZ]

I can tell you this for sure.Back in 78/79 i was desperatly seeking the jawa from the first series of 12 carded figures, but finding one on the shelves was near impossible at the start of the figure releases in the uk.My local toyshop knew i was after jawa, as i spent so much time in there, and i was very friendly with the owners. All the figures seemed to be available on the palitoy cardback, but when they had a jawa in, it was on the kenner card.The first one they had in was especially saved for me as i had asked them to score me one if it came in.This is how my VC jawa came to me, straight from a kenner card.This was at the very start of the releases of the figures,so it seems that the VC jawa had already been carded on non palitoy cards and were distributed on kenner cards, even though the stock of the other figures (the other 11) all seemed to be on palitoy cards.

 

[Grant]

Thats very interesting. Other people on the boards here also found the Jawa hard to come by when it was released.
So thats another nail in the coffin of the theory that the Palitoy Vinyl caped Jawa dosent exist.

Cheers

 

[HeroSolo]

Thats very interesting. Other people on the boards here also found the Jawa hard to come by when it was released.
So thats another nail in the coffin of the theory that the Palitoy Vinyl caped Jawa dosent exist.

Cheers

I have also heard/or read?, that the 12 back Palitoy Jawa was very difficult to get at the time.

Gary

 

[mr_palitoy]

Indeed. I dragged my dad round every toy shop in Nottingham before finding one in some of the boxes the shop keeper hadn't put out on display yet.

Jason

 

[_Lee_]

I can tell you this for sure.Back in 78/79 i was desperatly seeking the jawa from the first series of 12 carded figures, but finding one on the shelves was near impossible at the start of the figure releases in the uk.My local toyshop knew i was after jawa, as i spent so much time in there, and i was very friendly with the owners. All the figures seemed to be available on the palitoy cardback, but when they had a jawa in, it was on the kenner card.The first one they had in was especially saved for me as i had asked them to score me one if it came in.This is how my VC jawa came to me, straight from a kenner card.This was at the very start of the releases of the figures,so it seems that the VC jawa had already been carded on non palitoy cards and were distributed on kenner cards, even though the stock of the other figures (the other 11) all seemed to be on palitoy cards.

That is interesting.Also,another point is the fact that the figures were packed at the Palitoy factory in the UK and therefore having no Jawas whatsoever at the time,they got a shipment of Jawas on Kenner cardbacks from the USA.They would then have produced/received the replacment Jawas to pack onto Palitoy cards.Maybe they were waiting on word from Kenner about the cape/production change on the Jawas cape before they started packing them?

 

[HeroSolo]

Indeed. I dragged my dad round every toy shop in Nottingham before finding one in some of the boxes the shop keeper hadn't put out on display yet.

Jason

Was it on a kenner or Palitoy card Jason?.

Gary

 

[mr_palitoy]

Palitoy as far as I can remember, but it was a long time ago.

Jason

 

[Grant]

Hello,

I am wondering how long the Vinyl caped Jawa was released for before it was changed to the cloth cape.
I know that the vinyls were only on 12A backs so the cloth capes must be on 12B and 12Cs.

With people on the boards here saying it was a hard figure to find in the UK maybe we never got Jawas until the 12B backs were released.

So possibly the first Palitoy logo Jawas with cloth capes came out when the 12B backed Kenners came out for sale.
Does anyone here ever remember buying a vinyl caped Jawa in the UK when they were released back in the 70s or was it just cloth capes.

Thanks again.

Grant.

 

[Elliott]

Grant, I had a VC Jawa when they were first out on the pegs.
I was in a toy shop when the figures were first put out for sale, I got a Luke from a peg, and waited until they pulled out R2 from the box, I wanted a Vader, but there werent any in the box, the lady putting out the figures said they had another box in the stock room and there may be a Vader in that one, but my parents said we could come back again.
the next day, my mother picked me up from school, and she had bought me Vader, and a VC Jawa.
I cant say I looked for any Jawas after that, so I dont know if they were hard to find, I was quite happy with just the one, then I got 2 bagged cloth cape Jawa with the land of the Jawa playset...so from my viewpoint back then...they were the most common!

 

[Lee_Bullock]

I have seen the reseal figure in question and I saw nothing about it that suggested tampering.

1. The bubble is correct for a vinyl cape, and it is from the card in question what proof?
2. The source of the card came from a childhood collection that included reseals of the other 11 figures all resealed the same way. How many times have we heard that before?
3. The figures were not resealed by somebody with collector experience, card footers were left out and included in the accompanied playset box, and was resealed with cellotape They make it look like that?
4. The Jawa cape was correct as was the gun Not hard to do
5. The Jawa also included the plastic separation sheet common on figures with vinyl capes to stop the cape sticking to the card A lot of figures had these.Its possible this was taken from elsewhere.
6. The collection has no connection with Torres - so that is a moot point. That bloke is/was a [censored] and always will be.He was one of the first to start the rumour of this figure existing.

People can argue this forever, but things do turn up that havent been seen before even by experienced dealers and collectors. Jim S saw the piece on the same day and saw no issues with it either. For the record it was a 12b back like the other reseal found (the Torres sourced MOC was also 12b but of course we shall discount that).

Lee

I still dont beleive it Lee.People will go to great lenghts to do such things.All the reasons you put are understandable but can be deceiveing in most circumstances.There just isnt enough evidence to substantiate the claims that the VC Jawa was released in the UK on a Palitoy card.

And also if it is real,why take so long to unearth it? Ive said it once before and ill say it again,these figures only started to come to light when the Palitoy VC theory started.

'Joe Bloggs the collector goes to buy a collection from the paper,and bang-he finds a Palitoy 12 back VC Jawa staring at him'

But the real scenario is that he sees it as a way of making money and being the finder of this rare figure

Not being funny mate,but i dont think you can ever say this figure came from this card.It just doesnt make sense.If a sealed one were to be found( NOT IN TORRES'S HANDS )then maybe some more light could be shed,until then im a non-beleiver.

Look I am tired of argueing this over and over. I know what I saw and with frankly 20 years in the game I should hope I know what I am looking at. If that was a fake then I may as well hang my hat up now, because NOTHING about it screamed scam to me. I suggest you reserve judgment until you have seen the piece in hand. As for further discussion on this topic I am sick of hearing it - I have my opinions based purely on the piece I have seen IN HAND and you have yours. I wish people would keep an open mind until they have seen the piece, because armchair speculation is meaningless until you are faced with the piece. My opinion is that nothing is conclusive - no verifiable sealed example exists but at least one reseal that I have seen and looked at for over an hour tells me that there is a fairly good possibility that a VC Jawa was released - this I base on what I have seen not what I think I know.

I am out of this now...

 

[Christian]

I recently purchased a number of AFA MOC's from a collector who was leaving the hobby. Whilst visiting him he showed me this piece:



I spent a long time trying to 'see' why it was a fake even though the collector in question had paid a huge sum of money for it and was certain of it's authenticity.
Still to this day I can not see how it was faked and honestly believe it was legit. However, and here's the crunch, I'm pretty sure that this example originated from South Wales which in my mind sets alarm bells ringing due to aforementioned reasons.

Shame because these days it's very rare for me to feel that excited 'buzz' when viewing a SW collectable but the moment I clapped eyes on it the buzz was back.

Do Pal VCJ's exist? I dunno but it was either the best fake I've ever seen or this is real. But why hadn't he had it graded...

The legend lives on...

Merry Christmas,
Christian.

 

[Grant]

Lee.

This subject has been resurrected many times and will likely to carry on doing so until most people are satisfied with the truth about Palitoy VC Jawas.
Arm chair speculation is what its all about, If we were not interested then this topic would not keep coming around.
Also as new blood comes into the collecting community they will likely be asking the same questions as we all have and continue to do.
Thats just my humble opinion.

Cheers.

Grant.

 

[_Lee_]

I have seen the reseal figure in question and I saw nothing about it that suggested tampering.

1. The bubble is correct for a vinyl cape, and it is from the card in question what proof?
2. The source of the card came from a childhood collection that included reseals of the other 11 figures all resealed the same way. How many times have we heard that before?
3. The figures were not resealed by somebody with collector experience, card footers were left out and included in the accompanied playset box, and was resealed with cellotape They make it look like that?
4. The Jawa cape was correct as was the gun Not hard to do
5. The Jawa also included the plastic separation sheet common on figures with vinyl capes to stop the cape sticking to the card A lot of figures had these.Its possible this was taken from elsewhere.
6. The collection has no connection with Torres - so that is a moot point. That bloke is/was a [censored] and always will be.He was one of the first to start the rumour of this figure existing.

People can argue this forever, but things do turn up that havent been seen before even by experienced dealers and collectors. Jim S saw the piece on the same day and saw no issues with it either. For the record it was a 12b back like the other reseal found (the Torres sourced MOC was also 12b but of course we shall discount that).

Lee

I still dont beleive it Lee.People will go to great lenghts to do such things.All the reasons you put are understandable but can be deceiveing in most circumstances.There just isnt enough evidence to substantiate the claims that the VC Jawa was released in the UK on a Palitoy card.

And also if it is real,why take so long to unearth it? Ive said it once before and ill say it again,these figures only started to come to light when the Palitoy VC theory started.

'Joe Bloggs the collector goes to buy a collection from the paper,and bang-he finds a Palitoy 12 back VC Jawa staring at him'

But the real scenario is that he sees it as a way of making money and being the finder of this rare figure

Not being funny mate,but i dont think you can ever say this figure came from this card.It just doesnt make sense.If a sealed one were to be found( NOT IN TORRES'S HANDS )then maybe some more light could be shed,until then im a non-beleiver.

Look I am tired of argueing this over and over. I know what I saw and with frankly 20 years in the game I should hope I know what I am looking at. If that was a fake then I may as well hang my hat up now, because NOTHING about it screamed scam to me. I suggest you reserve judgment until you have seen the piece in hand. As for further discussion on this topic I am sick of hearing it - I have my opinions based purely on the piece I have seen IN HAND and you have yours. I wish people would keep an open mind until they have seen the piece, because armchair speculation is meaningless until you are faced with the piece. My opinion is that nothing is conclusive - no verifiable sealed example exists but at least one reseal that I have seen and looked at for over an hour tells me that there is a fairly good possibility that a VC Jawa was released - this I base on what I have seen not what I think I know.

I am out of this now...

Lee,it wasnt a personal attack on you,so i hope you didnt take it that way.I respect your opinion and i hope you respect mine.There are too many factors in this particular figure in question that go against it.The main one being that it has been removed from the card-that is a massive deciding factor against it.The other things you mentioned are relatively easy to do in some way or another and these also build against the theory of this figure being the original one from this card(figure maybe-cape probably not)

Until a fully sealed on come up in a respected collectors hands im afraid to say that this figure will always be a maybe.Ill eat a cloth cape Jawa if one is found.

Again,i respect your opinion and there was no offence meant.I myself have done a lot of research on the Palitoy line,and although i am not actively a collector at many shows etc,i have still read/seen enough to clarify that this figure probably didnt exist in my mind.The only one to surface,happened to pop up in Wales which is not a good point as Christian said.

Peace

Lee

 

[Lee_Bullock]

The point is that you are making assumptions before even seeing the piece in hand and believe me it certainly makes a difference in this case. We all think we have what Palitoy did with the SW line in a nice sewn up package, but I for one am willing to keep an open mind that what we thought was true may not be. People so easily talk themselves into a point of view without taking into account or ignoring inconvenient evidence. For me I really dont know for sure if the palitoy VCJ is kosher, but based on what I have seen in my own hands and with my two eyes my instincts tell me that is very well maybe.
For the record I actually saw the other figures that this was bought with and all of them were roughly taped back on to the cards in the same manner.
I am not trying to make believers out of anyone - damn I am sceptical myself, but please I wish people didnt assume that they have the whole Palitoy thing so sewn up that their minds arn't open to that curve ball. Because believe me in this hobby I have seen a few curveballs fly and make people rewrite the hobby history books.
If I seem abrasive its because I am!! (Ask those who know me!!

) but really it because I see the same old tired arguments without people saying "well I dont know! I would have to see it". If I am wrong and I have missed something then I hold my hands up, but Jim Stevenson looked at it too and came to the same conclusion as me. For me, I see only two pieces of evidence for it atm, the reseal with the back cut out - which I didnt see in real life so cant put much to much faith in and the one I did see - I am not even counting the Torres MOC as thats a can of worms just muddys already murky waters.
All I am saying is see the item first before forming such hard and unyielding opinions.

 

[Arnaud]

I love these discussions. It really depends whether one has an open mind or doesn't. My point of view has been consistent on this particular subject for the past twenty years: there were vinyl cape jawas in every country that released 12 backs unless proven otherwise. Obviously, it's difficult to prove they were made if noone in the hobby has one but it's simply impossible to prove they weren't.

There were Meccano ones so why not Palitoy? It was just a matter of time before one showed up and as far as I am concerned the one that was offered on ebay last year did the job. The bubble was untampered with, the card being opened only from the back thru a trap door as mentionned previously on this thread. What else does one need?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Which gets back to my opening discussion point on swf. If this reseal and last year's back door example both originally contained cloth capes rather than vinyl capes, why haven't we seen a MOC example of a cloth cape with the vc bubble type?

It's interesting that examples have only started popping up since the collecting community thought it was possible a vc jawa may have existed.

Occam's razor on the other hand, and the general good nature of people would suggest this example and the last one with the backdoor where just what they said on the tin.

Lee and Jim's appraisel of the latest one speaks volumes too in my opinion.

The sealed example from several years ago was not sourced by Torres, but was resold by him according to what I've read, which gives a little more credence to it's authenticity.

There are testimonies both way from collectors at the time saying their vc's were palitoy/kenner carded.

Ultimately, until one gets AFA'd, we'll never really know, and the debate will continue!

Jason

 

[Lafos]

There were Meccano ones so why not Palitoy?

The Meccano VCJ was never proven and highly doubted.

 

[Arnaud]

If this reseal and last year's back door example both originally contained cloth capes rather than vinyl capes, why haven't we seen a MOC example of a cloth cape with the vc bubble type?

That's a good question. The answer is very simple: that's because they don't exist. No need to keep an open mind here, they just don't.

 

[Lee_Bullock]

If this reseal and last year's back door example both originally contained cloth capes rather than vinyl capes, why haven't we seen a MOC example of a cloth cape with the vc bubble type?

That's a good question. The answer is very simple: that's because they don't exist. No need to keep an open mind here, they just don't.

Exactly all this hangs on whether a cloth cape jawa was released in a VCJ bubble on a palitoy card. Well the bubble on the VCJ is so tight that you would have trouble getting a cloth cape in there without sealing the cloth cape to the bubble. I have never seen any evidence that the cloth cape cape was released in a VCJ bubble and looking at said bubble I find it hard to imagine how it would fit in there. Now there is in existance a Jawa bubble variant - the R2D2 bubble with card tray that exists on a palitoy card so in theory anything is possible, but the presence of the plastic separator does go a long way as to the likelihood of the veracity of the piece. So my feeling is that the piece I saw was unlikely to be originally a cloth cape in a VCJ bubble.

 

[_Lee_]

Ultimately, until one gets AFA'd...
Jason

Im pretty sure we dont need them to verify it, IF one does exist.

 

[HeroSolo]

Did the Palitoy 12 back carded vader,leia or ben have the plastic insert behind the figure?

 

[Lee_Bullock]

Did the Palitoy 12 back carded vader,leia or ben have the plastic insert behind the figure?

Yup all of them did with vinyl capes.

 

[HeroSolo]

Did the Palitoy 12 back carded vader,leia or ben have the plastic insert behind the figure?

Yup all of them did with vinyl capes.

Thats interesting!.I am being to wonder if it is so cut and dried?.
I think i'll sit on the fence with this one.And maybe i'll fall off when a genuine factory sealed one surfaces

!.

Gary

 

[mr_palitoy]

New pics on the auction now:-

Jason

 

[gary_smith]

Ultimately, until one gets AFA'd...
Jason

Im pretty sure we dont need them to verify it, IF one does exist.

So whose verification would you accept?