New Repro Yak Face

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No. Hasbro has the legal rights to a Star Wars license. "Smith Lord" does not. Don't confuse your support of what "Smith Lord" does with the legality of what he does. Those are two separate things.

I detest his reproduction items. He's producing them against legal trademark laws.
I think his custom (non-repro) stuff is sort of neat. He's still producing them against legal trademark laws.

It's simple.
I don't really see why someone producing high quality repros's, sold as repro's, is getting slated like this by a bunch of vintage collectors who have invested heavily in vintage toys. Oh, wait...

Star Wars was all about fun, so were the toys, so are the repro's. Vintage collecting is all about MONEY. That's why collectors kvetched the hell out of Super 7 when they first announced their Kenner Alien line. Yet it led to a massive demand for retro style figures that has seen all kinds of goodness and wish-fulfilment. All this horse **** about trademarks etc is just vintage collectors pretending to take the high ground because they're worried their investments will fall in value. They might have started collecting to get in touch with their inner child, but their inner child wouldn't give a **** about trademarks and would rip all the figures off their pristine cards anyway then go and throw them in a sandpit.
 
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BigBarada

Their scum sucking knock off Gucci purses!!!!
That's a bad example, because Gucci purses are overpriced trash where people are only paying for a name. I believe the knock off Gucci purses are priced much more realistically to what the market has determined.

That's absolutely untrue. Intellectual property and trademark rights are a real thing. If you're making money off of a property that you don't have the legal rights to, it's theft. There's no way around that. Now, you might not care but that doesn't alter the legality of what he's doing. Would someone fill the market void that "Smith Lord" would leave if he were to stop producing repros? Undoubtedly. But again, that has no bearing on the legality of what he is doing.
No. Hasbro has the legal rights to a Star Wars license. "Smith Lord" does not. Don't confuse your support of what "Smith Lord" does with the legality of what he does. Those are two separate things.

I detest his reproduction items. He's producing them against legal trademark laws.
I think his custom (non-repro) stuff is sort of neat. He's still producing them against legal trademark laws.

It's simple.
Yeah, I don't care. It's Disney's job to defend their intellectual property, not mine and not yours. Until Disney and/or Hasbro drops the hammer on SLC, then I plan to continue buying their stuff.
 
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I don't really see why someone producing high quality repros's, sold as repro's, is getting slated like this by a bunch of vintage collectors who have invested heavily in vintage toys. Oh, wait...

Star Wars was all about fun, so were the toys, so are the repro's. Vintage collecting is all about MONEY. That's why collectors kvetched the hell out of Super 7 when they first announced their Kenner Alien line. Yet it led to a massive demand for retro style figures that has seen all kinds of goodness and wish-fulfilment. All this horse **** about trademarks etc is just vintage collectors pretending to take the high ground because they're worried their investments will fall in value. They might have started collecting to get in touch with their inner child, but their inner child wouldn't give a **** about trademarks and would rip all the figures off their pristine cards anyway then go and throw them in a sandpit.
None of this has much of anything to do with what I was saying. I was pointing out that despite the arguments in favor of Smith Lord's endeavors, what he's doing remains illegal.
 
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Yeah, I don't care. It's Disney's job to defend their intellectual property, not mine and not yours. Until Disney and/or Hasbro drops the hammer on SLC, then I plan to continue buying their stuff.
That's fine. You don't have to care. But don't claim that what Smith Lord is doing isn't theft when it most certainly is. At the very least, be a man and own up to what you're doing rather than make lame excuses that you don't half believe yourself.
 
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Jesus enough with the crusading and finger pointing. I bought the 13 pack and i love them. If hasbro got off their lazy ***** and gave me an affordable vintage wedge and biggs this guy would be out of business. I wish he would mark his weapons though. Im sorry if i am now the spawn of satan himself for buying his stuff. Disney has enough of my money and so does Hasbro. So technically I get what I want and am closer to a better parking spot in hell. But I'll have my wedge and biggs.
 
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That's fine. You don't have to care. But don't claim that what Smith Lord is doing isn't theft when it most certainly is. At the very least, be a man and own up to what you're doing rather than make lame excuses that you don't half believe yourself.
I object to a word like 'theft' being used about someone who's work is a lovingly detailed homage to a beloved line which puts affordable, high quality replicas in the hands of fans. Plenty of real crime out there for you to get on your high horse about.
 
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I object to a word like 'theft' being used about someone who's work is a lovingly detailed homage to a beloved line which puts affordable, high quality replicas in the hands of fans.
Object all you want, but that doesn't change the reality of what's going on here. Just because you appreciate Smith Lord's work doesn't alter the legality of what he's doing. Surely you can understand that. Heck, I think some of his custom pieces are sort of neat, but it remains intellectual property theft despite my personal opinions regarding the quality of his work.

At the very least, have an honest conversation about this sort of thing. In some grudging way, I suppose I could respect someone saying that they recognize that Smith Lord's work is illegal and it's theft, but that he or she just doesn't care. I mean, at least that person is being upfront about things. But this nonsense that Smith Lord is somehow above such accusations because he does quality custom work is ridiculous.


Plenty of real crime out there for you to get on your high horse about.
So...one should only voice an opinion in regards to "real" crime? On a Star Wars forum nonetheless? Can I complain about car theft? I mean, there is much worse stuff out there, surely. How about local house burglaries? Are those off the table? After all, people are out there committing murders. Come on, dude, you're smarter than that.
 
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If hasbro got off their lazy ***** and gave me an affordable vintage wedge and biggs this guy would be out of business. I wish he would mark his weapons though. Im sorry if i am now the spawn of satan himself for buying his stuff. Disney has enough of my money and so does Hasbro. So technically I get what I want and am closer to a better parking spot in hell. But I'll have my wedge and biggs.
Rationalization at its finest.
 
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Rationalization at its finest.
Yup. I do a lot of customs. And these are just that. Mass produced but still customs. And if it pisses off Sir Sharp of Disney's Roundtable, I don't give half a bantha turd. If you have a problem with it, start crusading directly with Smithlord and stop clogging up the boards with a senseless rant that nobody agrees with.
 
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Yup. I do a lot of customs. And these are just that. Mass produced but still customs. And if it pisses off Sir Sharp of Disney's Roundtable, I don't give half a bantha turd. If you have a problem with it, start crusading directly with Smithlord and stop clogging up the boards with a senseless rant that nobody agrees with.

Nobody? Eh, I think you and I both know that's not true. And really, where in the world would you get the idea that I'm "pissed" simply because I'm pointing out the legal nature of what Smith Lord is doing? That makes no sense. It's an observation based on the law - not on emotion; not on opinion. It's a fact.

Here, answer this: if one is making and selling Star Wars figures without a license, it's intellectual property theft. Do you agree with this statement?
 
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That's fine. You don't have to care. But don't claim that what Smith Lord is doing isn't theft when it most certainly is. At the very least, be a man and own up to what you're doing rather than make lame excuses that you don't half believe yourself.
I disagree that it would qualify as theft. Neither Disney nor Hasbro created the product. Neither Disney nor Hasbro created the characters depicted in the product. They might currently own the rights to those characters, from a strictly legal standpoint, but neither Disney nor Hasbro had any hand in creating characters like Snaggletooth, Yak Face, Han Solo, etc.

SLC's work falls under the same nebulous rules as artists who sell their fan art. In the sense that fan art is still considered a copyright violation, but copyright holders never enforce it. Thus, you have to ask if an unenforced law is even a law at all.

If I draw a picture of Spider-Man and sell it. As long as the buyer knows that my drawing is not an officially licensed image of the character, then there has been no theft or deception between artist and buyer. Thus, it would be a real stretch to claim that I'm somehow taking money out of Marvel Comics' pocket if I sell a drawing that I spent hours creating myself, just because they own the rights to Spider-Man. Especially, when that drawing didn't exist until I created it in the first place. The same basic principle applies here.

Of course, the bigger and more successful SLC gets, the more likely it becomes that Disney or Hasbro will step in. However, until then I'm willing to enjoy the ride and no amount of scolding or finger-wagging from random people on the internet is going to affect that.
 
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Here, answer this: if one is making and selling Star Wars figures without a license, it's intellectual property theft. Do you agree with this statement?
If the rules are as black and white as you are claiming them to be, then explain why Shepperton Design Studios won their lawsuit when Lucasfilm tried to sue them for making and selling unlicensed, replica Stormtrooper helmets.
 
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The item from the link is no longer on ebay. It's pretty simple at this point...If it isn't graded by AFA or CAS don't buy it.

Off subject but the same people have been selling bogus one sheets on ebay for 20 years (that I know of) but probably longer. Imagine the thousands of people who think they have an authentic one. Sad.
 
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The item from the link is no longer on ebay. It's pretty simple at this point...If it isn't graded by AFA or CAS don't buy it.
I would never buy an AFA or CAS item. It's easy enough to collect authentic vintage Kenner toys without wasting money on overpriced graded items.

We're not talking about people being fooled into believing the SLC figures are legitimate Kenner figures. We are talking about collectors who are interested in buying replica items being able to do so without coming under attack by the self-appointed hobby police.
 
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I guess I should have read more. In my opinion, if the people are saying it is a custom/repro/fake I don't really take issue with it. I would never buy any of it because fake crap is going to hold no value in the future plus I don't want bogus stuff in my personal collection.

The poster sellers present their junk as authentic and have an entire BS story to go along with each bogus piece. Now that IS illegal.
 
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Neither Disney nor Hasbro created the product. Neither Disney nor Hasbro created the characters depicted in the product. They might currently own the rights to those characters, from a strictly legal standpoint, but neither Disney nor Hasbro had any hand in creating characters like Snaggletooth, Yak Face, Han Solo, etc.
As you said, Disney owns the rights to those characters. It doesn't matter whatsoever that Disney isn't the originator of the Star Wars property. They currently own the property. That's that.


SLC's work falls under the same nebulous rules as artists who sell their fan art. In the sense that fan art is still considered a copyright violation, but copyright holders never enforce it. Thus, you have to ask if an unenforced law is even a law at all.

I disagree. Fan art vs trademark violation is a pretty clear-cut scenario. There's nothing really nebulous about it. If an artists sells art or product based on a trademarked property, then it's intellectual property theft. Now, in some cases it's quite possible that holder of that property doesn't care to make an issue of it. In other cases, making an issue of it could lead to negative receptions by fans. We all get that. But that does not redefine the law. It doesn't change the legality of anything. I own some fan art that I've purchased at local cons. I appreciate the artist, and I proudly display the art in my home. But I'm also able to recognize that the pieces were created in violation of trademark. I've also illegally downloaded trademarked music from the Internet. I didn't lose sleep over it, but I'm also not going to come up with some harebrained rationale for how I didn't actually break any trademark statues. I did. Whatever.


Of course, the bigger and more successful SLC gets, the more likely it becomes that Disney or Hasbro will step in.
Why? If we're not dealing with intellectual property theft, why would they step in?

Folks really should have the intellectual honesty to realize this about Smith Lord's stuff. His reproduction stuff is garbage, and I can't imagine why someone would want to dilute their collection with a bunch of fake rubbish. But yeah, his "unproduced" customs are sort of neat. People should be able to say, "Ya know, it's intellectual property theft, but I don't much care right now. They look great, and I'm going to purchase a set." I'd rather see this than some weak rationalization.
 
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If the rules are as black and white as you are claiming them to be, then explain why Shepperton Design Studios won their lawsuit when Lucasfilm tried to sue them for making and selling unlicensed, replica Stormtrooper helmets.
You didn't answer my question. I'll ask again: if one is making and selling Star Wars figures without a license, it's intellectual property theft. Do you agree with this statement?

 
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Man...why does any of this need explaining? Lucas was so great he encouraged fanfilms. But producing and selling figures is on another level. Beautiful pieces but the law is unambiguous.
 
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I would never buy an AFA or CAS item. It's easy enough to collect authentic vintage Kenner toys without wasting money on overpriced graded items.

We're not talking about people being fooled into believing the SLC figures are legitimate Kenner figures. We are talking about collectors who are interested in buying replica items being able to do so without coming under attack by the self-appointed hobby police.
Exactly. love it and Buy it, Or don't and pass....don't start Judging people that dig them or even make them as long as they are not trying to swindle someone, fan made stuff is cool.
 
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"Folks really should have the intellectual honesty to realize this about Smith Lord's stuff. His reproduction stuff is garbage, and I can't imagine why someone would want to dilute their collection with a bunch of fake rubbish. But yeah, his "unproduced" customs are sort of neat. People should be able to say, "Ya know, it's intellectual property theft, but I don't much care right now. They look great, and I'm going to purchase a set." I'd rather see this than some weak rationalization."


The stuff is actually pretty high quality, look at the reviews, nobody but you has called it garbage. so am I a thief for making customs? am I going to be hauled off by Mickey and company when I assemble my spirit Obi Wan?
 
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The stuff is actually pretty high quality, look at the reviews, nobody but you has called it garbage.
Ugh. I'm not talking about the quality of the work. Rather, I think reproduction items in general are garbage.


so am I a thief for making customs? am I going to be hauled off by Mickey and company when I assemble my spirit Obi Wan?
Depends. Are you making them in quantity to resell? If so, that's intellectual property theft. Don't get bent out of shape with me. I'm merely pointing out the law.
 
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Ugh. I'm not talking about the quality of the work. Rather, I think reproduction items in general are garbage.




Depends. Are you making them in quantity to resell? If so, that's intellectual property theft. Don't get bent out of shape with me. I'm merely pointing out the law.
Why are you pointing out the law? Do you have too much time on your hands?

This is hobby is fun, Smith Lord is adding to the fun, you're trying to stop it.
 
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You didn't answer my question. I'll ask again: if one is making and selling Star Wars figures without a license, it's intellectual property theft. Do you agree with this statement?

I didn't answer your question because I am under no obligation to answer. Also, I generally don't get into legal discussions with people over the internet. I'm not a lawyer and I think it's safe to assume that neither are you.

Anyways, short answer: no. Long answer: I don't agree that our current interpretation of intellectual property law is correct. It's not possible for intellectual properties to change hands from one person to a corporation. George Lucas stills owns Star Wars, it's his creation. No matter how much money Disney pays, they will never own Star Wars and will never be able to make a "real" Star Wars movie. The best Disney can do is make a high budget "fan" film (I put the word "fan" in quotes because I don't believe any of the people working on the current trilogy are fans of the franchise at all).

Under current copyright laws, the copyright owner only really owns what they are able to successfully defend in court. It's not up to the fans to determine what is or is not a copyright violation in these instances. Of course, license holders want consumers to believe that it matters, because they paid a lot of money for the priviledge of producing merchandise under those licenses and they don't want unlicensed competitors.

Why? If we're not dealing with intellectual property theft, why would they step in?
Why did Lucasfilm sue Shepperton when it was clear, based on the outcome of the case, that no intellectual property violation was taking place? People sue other people all the time for various reasons and it's up to the courts, not random peoples on the internet, to determine which cases do and do not have merit.

BTW, Shepperton Design Studios is still making unlicensed Stormtrooper helmets and armor to this day: https://www.originalstormtrooper.com
 
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I just want to say something here. I know my opinion may not matter, but here it is. If you are going to buy one, go right ahead. No one is stopping you. These are marked as being made by SLC, and even the haters know that. If your going to hate, why? What is the point of hating? At the end of the day, these are toys. If you don't want one, don't complain about people who do want one. If I did online shopping, I would happily buy one. It looks just as good as a regular Yak Face, and I am not in a position to spend such an amount of money on a toy. People who gate on others suck the fun right out of the hobby, people who drag the law and politics into are buzzkills. We are all here, not to argue, but bond over the toys that gave us such happy memories. Why should we make it a negative thing? If Smith Lord wants to make his customs, let him. If you don't want one, don't complain. Let's try and stay friendly here, and open to peoples craft.
 
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Haven't been on here for a LOOOONG time.

I'm only writing because I love the idea of continuing the original Kenner line with unmade Characters!

Is *Smithlordcreations* a member here? ... I sadly can't contact him through his website ... anyhow ...

I think he should have a look at this (no - they are not for sale - sorry) and contact me please ;-) ...

01.jpg
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04.jpg
 
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I think they are nice as well but I am a fan of what Hasbro is doing with the unmade characters in the Retro line. I don't want to see sculpts that are totally awesome nice today's VC. I want to see stuff that could pass for being made in the 80's and match the aesthetic from that time. The way I see it it these figures are being sculpted or envisioned as with the same creative thought process that they would've used in the Kenner days (minus 2000's technology of course).
 
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Am I right ? These are the reproduction figures Stan Solo/Smith Lord/Fans Strike Back ( all the same person under different names ) have done ? Will need to be very careful if you're looking to buy the following.

Luke Sotrmie
Stormtrooper
Yak Face
Blue snag
R2 pop up
Droids C3PO
Droids R2D2
Glasslight R2 and C3PO
Uzay R2
and all the vintage weapons that bounce, float and are translucent like the originals.

Also, it looks like CAS are accepting their custom figures ( not the above repo figures ) for grading :/ I can imagine a lot of collectors won't be cool with that.
 
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Am I right ? These are the reproduction figures Stan Solo/Smith Lord/Fans Strike Back ( all the same person under different names ) have done ? Will need to be very careful if you're looking to buy the following.

Luke Sotrmie
Stormtrooper
Yak Face
Blue snag
R2 pop up
Droids C3PO
Droids R2D2
Glasslight R2 and C3PO
Uzay R2
and all the vintage weapons that bounce, float and are translucent like the originals.

Also, it looks like CAS are accepting their custom figures ( not the above repo figures ) for grading :/ I can imagine a lot of collectors won't be cool with that.
i need 3 of those. Oh hell!
 
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The whole *intellectual property theft* stuff aside (and yes - Disney holds the legal rights for the Star Wars license) here is how I see it:

1. Reproductions of original vintage Kenner figures - I'm against it, even if they would be clearly marked as Repros, because they do already exist.

2. Reproductions of original vintage Kenner Weapons / Accessories - I can partially understand those for collectors who need replacements and can't find or afford some of the originals, BUT they all should be clearly marked as Repros.

3. *limited mass produced* (professionally made in PVC like *real Figures*) vintage Kenner Style Figures wich NEVER existed - BRING 'EM ON !!!

I'm sorry, but I totally dislike the Hasbro Retro Collection Figures as much as I love the vintage Kenner Originals. In my opinion, and for what I expected of this line Hasbro failed and dissapointed in almost EVERY way possible. They are once more only trying to milk the Collector-Cash-Cow here. These *Re-Issued* figures just look and feel off and unsatisfieing in so many ways when compared directly to their original Kenner Counterparts.

1st mistake - they *scanned* original figures and heavily fiddled with them digitally (you digital sculptors really love your smoothing-tool, do you!) - to me that's a TOTAL NO GO and the results of that just don't look good (just look at those Retro Vaders missing eyesockets or the softened, bloated faces of Luke and Han). Just stop that unnecessary over-digitalisation everywhere - just because something is digital it doesn't mean it's better!

The originals were beautifully sculpted traditionally BY HAND and full of great and sharp detail (just look at Hoth Leias hair for example). So what Hasbro should have done is get their hands on old original Resin prototypes (there are enough collectors they could have asked to borrow them from) and just traditionally mold them - THIS would have produced molds and thus figures looking like they should have! Heck, even molding some good original figures (like some of the sharper PBP molds) would have produced better results than this digital garbage.

2nd mistake - the eyes and eyebrow paint apps just don't look like the originals ... really ... just no... sorry - a real lack of *vintage feeling*.

Is it really so hard to EXACTLY copy the old eyes and eyebrow paint apps ... NO it's NOT. You just need someone who really CARES for all those details, but when you're giving a s**t abut the look of the product in the end and the people who love the vintage originals you get the *Retro Collection*. I'm sorry but it is just not good enough to make those figures *look kind of* like the old ones when you have the great ond once in a lifetime opportunity to do it right. These COULD have been fantastic if somebody would just have walked the extra mile of really getting into the materia or just get some real fans/collectors involved to check on those things in development stages.

3rd mistake - Camel-Face Tarkin ... just what is that thing, and ... why ??? I just can't stand looking at that face ...

Kenner sculpted some GREAT actor likenesses in the vintage line regarding the sculpting methods, molding techniques and production possibilities of the late 70s and early 80s. Kenners Ben Kenobi for example ist a great likeness of Alec Guinness, the Big Head Han Solo really resembles the main facial features of Harrison Ford and so on. Kenners attempts were never to make these figures look *cutish* or *childish*, IF they would have sculpted a Tarkin back then they would have tried to nail Peter Cushings likeness as good as they could.

4th mistake - the weapons - all flat black ... all too small ... and the lightsabers PVC is too hard (funny fact - exactly like the modern reproductions!)

I see no reason why the weapons couldn't have been made in the original semi-translucent blue/black and Hasbro could have just marked all the handles with a huge X so they could not be mistaken for original vintage weapons.

And all of this is why I think that just for the fans it is no crime to have figures of unproduced, never existing Kenner Style Figures made that really bring the love and feeling of the old vintage line back. And if Hasbro/Disney won't deliver, hopefully for the fans someone else will!
 
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I picked up a Blue Snags repro — don’t shoot me. Mainly as a litmus test as I am VERY interested in the retro Kenner inspired wave of 13 that these guys are planning to soon put out. Based on the quality of the Snags — I am sold. VERY. The paint apps, the feel of the figure, he limbs and joints. yeah. Count me in.
 
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I like these. When I criticized them in this thread like a year ago, I thought you guys were talking about somebody else active on eBay at the time. But Smith Lord is quite good. I know it makes vintage collectors nervous (especially the accessories), but this a good option for the less well-heeled.
 
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