New Repro ALERT: Early Bird Kit Action Stand Coupon *** Seller devjohn ***

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Hi guys,

After buying an Early bird Coupon that came from the eBay seller devjohn out of Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania i started to question it when it was received. The seller stated he has more for sale as well when i contacted him about them.

This is a scary good fake as the paper seems to be real but it is actually slightly less glossy but still is see through like the original.

The first thing that alerted me was a crease that was actually just printed, it was on the reverse side with the action stand instructions as well. The funny thing is was that it did not feel raised at all. I figured it would have broke or bent the paper if there was a crease.





I noticed that the picture of the action stand seemed to be darker than the AFA graded ones i was looking at and the action figure names were slightly out of focus and harder to read.



The numbers 323-00800 were slightly spaced lower than the AFA graded ones and also the dotted line was not centered like the AFA ones. It was slightly to the right not allowing the spacing on the right.





The black ink in the letters O, P, C, U and so on seemed to shine more or be more saturated with ink.





The POP seems to be very slightly darker than it should be *** well.





The thing that really set me off was that i knew of another collector, Bobby Simons, that had just bought a set and our coupons were nearly identical. So i messaged him and we found that they came from the same seller. Our coupons had the same "creases" and also spacing. The seller has sold about 6 of these this year with Early Bird Kits and alone or mixed with items. He is savvy and knows what he is doing. He has also sold recards and reproduction weapons and capes.

Here is a few comparison pictures between my coupon and bobbys.

Crease

Mine:


Bobby's:


Dotted Line

Mine:


Bobby's:


Here is a comparison between my coupon and a real one.



I was asked to go and get a loupe to see what the printing up close looked like. I know there were some color dots that my eye could see but this showed them a lot better. The printing should be way more crisp then this. Also, there is a yellow line along the black edge where my crease is which was suspicous. The crease is made up of colored dots as well.







If you have any questions or comments please share!!! This is very scary as these are expensive and there were no known fakes before this.
 
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File a claim asap if you haven't already. Also lets all work on reporting these auctions as counterfeit. If one thing is going to destroy this industry and the value of our collections its this kind of ****
 
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Wow, thanks for the information! Is there anything in our hobby that will not sooner or later be affected by scammers? I can't understand all this sh****t.
Those are lucky who completed their stuff years before some "individuals" started with faking and reproducing.
 
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This is exactly the kind of stuff that scares me from getting into the high end vintage stuff. No matter how much you try to educate yourself there will always be new repros and fakes being produced, especially as the value of these items increase. Sorry to hear you got screwed, thank you for providing this in-depth write up to try and prevent the spread of these fakes.
 
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There has been a lot of talk on Davids, and Bobby's pieces, behind the scenes. If you look at the pic above, of the legit one, that Alex provided, you can easily see how different David's is. The white knock out type should be crisp. It is in Alex's piece, not in David's. David's has some darker ink in the letters like O and D and P and Q. In my opinion, it looks like the type was traced, using auto trace/outline in photo shop. In other words, a legit coupon was scanned and brought into photo shop auto traced the type and placed on a black background. That is why the black does not match the background in the white knockout areas of O and D and P and Q.
Also, the "crease" on Davids. If this was a legit crease, you would most likely feel it. But even if you couldn't, you could tell if it was a printed crease or a real paper crease by looking through a magnifying glass. That crease, if it was real, would just be a white scuff. In Davids, the crease was created by C,M,Y,K (cyan, magenta, yellow, black) ink dots from a Litho Sheet Fed Press. In other words, it appears that was scanned, and then printed that way.
From looking at it, it looks like a rescan job of an original. Stripped up/Re Designed on a Modern computer. And printed on a high end litho sheet fed press. This could also account for the code being lower, type being off center, and from the close ups, the registration being bad.
I hope this gets resolved. I worked in the printing industry for 15 years. I understand the process. If I am wrong in any of the things I said, I apologize. But I believe what I am saying to be true.
 
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UPDATE

For those not on facebook, we have found the original copy. It was sold to the eBay seller by a member and he is copying it. Here is the original.




 
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The smoking gun! Knew it!!!!! Now that you have the evidence, this guy should be reported to the police, and Ebay. He has use of high end printers, and will do this again, unless someone reports him.
 
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I commented on your other thread and have been following this, again sorry to hear about your horrible discovery and being scammed. It is absolutely terrible that these are being faked now, I have been looking for a couple of the Early Bird kit pieces and the coupon is one of them to complete my own. I have added this seller to my block list, thank you for providing the name. Like osufan stated above, file a claim and get a refund asap.
 
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UPDATE

For those not on facebook, we have found the original copy. It was sold to the eBay seller by a member and he is copying it. Here is the original.




David, it is believed this is an original that the copies are coming from correct? Just asking because the spacing on the 323-0800 number appears th same on this as the copy, but not like the other one that is said to be an original. So are there different original versions also? Not that this changes the fact that your is a copy, but that one thing on both of the originals appears to be different.

also the dotted line appears to not be centered. Basically this original and your copy are exact so all the differences in spacing and what not appear the same. Since it isn't in hand you can't tell about the ink being darker in the letters and the picture shows the proof f purchase doesn't look as dark so those aren't copied exactly, but everything else seems to be.
 
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Yes, i would tend to agree now that there must be 2 different spacings on this. Guys with Early bird kits graded would be best to help. If anyone could chime in on that it would be awesome!
 
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Gents please chime in if you have bought anything from this seller. I have some pictures that I am going to add to the thread for David and Bobby that I have added some things to.
 
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The black ink in the letters O, P, C, U and so on seemed to shine more or be more saturated with ink.

That to me is the biggest tell of a fake.
What I see is a common lazy Photoshop attempt.
If you try to select all the black around the text shown, it will not select inside any enclosed area (o, e, a, 0, 9, 8, 6, 4, etc, etc, etc).
So when they select the black areas to clean them up, the enclosed areas do not receive the adjustment so it stands out when you look closely.

Anyway.........
cheers
 
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That to me is the biggest tell of a fake.
What I see is a common lazy Photoshop attempt.
If you try to select all the black around the text shown, it will not select inside any enclosed area (o, e, a, 0, 9, 8, 6, 4, etc, etc, etc).
So when they select the black areas to clean them up, the enclosed areas do not receive the adjustment so it stands out when you look closely.

Anyway.........
cheers

This is great to know. Steve was super helpful on FB too.
 
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Yea, I'd be surprised if any of these got by AFA, BUT, they are not printers, and probably don't understand the process. I'm glad you guys have gotten this figured out and round up all the evidence. Glad I could be of some help. -Steve
 
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Great work Dave and everyone else that contributed to out another turd scammer. Well done guys.
Please join in flagging any of his auctions that might be questionable. Any chance you get your money back from this pos??
 
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Looks like he has pulled some stuff before.

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1062112/

also I am assuming this his him on eBay right? devjohn on eBay

looks like he sold two early bird kits recently and has an early bird certificate up right now if this is him. Please tell me he hasn't made copies of those also........
Yes, he was selling these items in 2014. If you can get on FB please read the thread there too. He is no stranger to reproductions.
 
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The seller also sold what appears to be another identical fake coupon with an early bird stand and loose figures a few weeks ago.

Yes, i would tend to agree now that there must be 2 different spacings on this. Guys with Early bird kits graded would be best to help. If anyone could chime in on that it would be awesome!
I have a graded kit that was graded 9 years ago and the spacing matches Alex's which is closer to the black section than the repo has.
 
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David, sorry to hear you've been scammed. I've sent you a PM. Well done everyone on the detective work and for alerting the community so quickly. I've linked this thread to the first page of ImperialGunnery.Com as an additional Watch Out.
 
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The 'Devjohn' scammers name is John J Acito from Carlisle PA. Sounds like he should be avoided like the plague...
 
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Yeah let's use AFA graded ones to compare to, because they were all over the fake Toy Toni MOCs...
 
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Good catch Bansai_tree_ent on the link. I hate this so much! I always thought it was a horrible idea that Hasbro themselves re-made the early bird kit in the first place and you have to watch out for people trying to pass off pieces of that as originals, even though it isn't too hard, but now straight up fakes of originals. It was bound to happen eventually though.
 
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OK, so I just got this juicy info from a reliable source who got it directly from a Kenner guy. To detect possible fake coupons being redeemed, Kenner supposedly printed an image of Vader on the coupon that's visible under black light.

Can someone please verify if this is true, and even better, get a photo of it? This one was news to me!

-chris
 
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WTF, really? Was this done with a clear, dull or gloss varnish, or a double bump of black, for the Vader????
 
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If this is true, that is advanced for 1977 printing. Not that they couldn't have done it, but this would have turned into a 5 color job. CMYK and a spot color for the Vader image, black bump or clear varnish. Plus more work in the prepress department to cut a mask for that shape/image. Again, not saying it couldn't be done, but more money and more time in the printing preproduction and production process.
 
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OK, so I just got this juicy info from a reliable source who got it directly from a Kenner guy. To detect possible fake coupons being redeemed, Kenner supposedly printed an image of Vader on the coupon that's visible under black light.

Can someone please verify if this is true, and even better, get a photo of it? This one was news to me!

-chris
If this info turns out to be true, this will be one of the most interesting and important "Kenner SW secrets" to be unearthed in years!
 
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That's all I know and that's why I said "supposedly". Could be that Kenner really did that or the Kenner guy might remember talking about doing it at the time, not that it was actually done.

Shouldn't be hard to validate if someone has a real coupon and a black light. I'm sure if we give it a day or 2 we may have the answer. I don't have a coupon or I'd do it.
 
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This is some Da Vinci Code Turin Shroud style sh*t. Reveal the face of Vader...

Cant be many people who happen to own both a coupon and a black light though...
 
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That's all I know and that's why I said "supposedly". Could be that Kenner really did that or the Kenner guy might remember talking about doing it at the time, not that it was actually done.

Shouldn't be hard to validate if someone has a real coupon and a black light. I'm sure if we give it a day or 2 we may have the answer. I don't have a coupon or I'd do it.
I'm buying a black light tonight. And sending the bill to you if you're wrong, Chris. Hell, I may send you the bill even if you're right. :rolleyes:
 
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What's the penalty for not already having a black light and professing to be a collector? :)

You need an eye loupe also. Preferably with LED. Just sayin'

-chris
 
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I 100% agree with Chris now. Buying a loupe was a huge help!! A black light would be as well.
 

j74

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I heard of the Black Light thing a few years ago, I tried it on mine then and it did not work. I just tried it with the two i currently have and it did not work either..
 
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