Midichlorians sort of make sense

r2d2_26 · Dec 16, 2015

After watching the movies again in the past few days, not having watched them in a while, I have looked at them from a different perspective. I know most of us have hated the idea of the midichlorians, but I think Qui-Gon's explanation makes sense, if you take into account that both Obi-Wan and Yoda said that the Force is created by life: Yoda: "Life creates it [the Force]. Its energy surrounds us and binds us". So, it is possible that the midichlorians are the ones that create the Force. At the same time, I think that the Force itself influences the midichlorians and life, since Palpatine tells Anakin that the midichlorians could be influenced by the Force to create life.

What do you think? Is this too far fetched?

Cobalt60 · Dec 16, 2015

ANH & ESB told us that the force was an energy field created by all living things. it implied that anyone could learn to master it and become a jedi.

ROTJ made it into a blood disease inherited from father to son : "My father has it. my sister has it. my great aunt tessie has it" -- apparently now it's a virus or something.

--> first chance he got, GL HAD to explain how the force is a blood disease in ROtJ --> the PT's were used as a vehicle to explain/validate all the crap in ROTJ that didn't make any sense. (and still doesn't).

Dezgus · Dec 16, 2015

I can kind of understand that midichlorians every being having them but certain people having more of them, which in some cases allows those people to use the force better than others, say anakin and yoda who use the force (in theory) better than others.
Just like having an higher IQ *can* make you more intelligent but it isn't always true.

And if these are like a virus or disease but doesn't really do harm there are genetic traits and diseases that don't always activate despite being a carrier, assuming this is similar it could be genetic, it could also be random and the force could also sometimes give less/more to certain people because of "events"
It'd still mean EVERYONE could train as a jedi but people with very few would have a much harder time accessing the force, but given much training they could become jedi (explore core, librarians etc?)
and others with some gift but never train it could live without realizing they are using it, perhaps like han's luck being affected by the force, but him activating it not with jedi training but some other discipline.

The genetic passing down can either reduce as the generations get older, or stronger depending on the children born.. perhaps that is why obi-wan/yoda never told luke and leia they were siblings, stronger force user would be born between them!! lol.
But either way the force can still have just as much influence over normal people just as cancer seems too, until we discover all the causes of it at least.(i suspect breathing is one)

JediDrummer · Dec 16, 2015

Based on ANH and ESB, I always assumed the Force was basically just a sci-fi version of the ideas of eastern pantheistic monism (i.e., the rock, the tree, the land, the ship, luminous beings are we not crude matter, etc.). And then ROTJ made me kind of confused, but I guess it makes sense that there could be some sort of inherited affinity for connection with the rest of the Force in life... or something like that.

What the prequels do is completely shift the worldview of Star Wars from one of pantheistic mysticism to atheistic naturalism (i.e., there now has to be a scientific explanation for everything). I think it's completely stupid and inconsistent with the universe established in the first two films... and even aside from my opinion on the matter, it seems clear to me that midichlorians do not fit into the mythos of Star Wars as established in the OT.

Cobalt60 · Dec 17, 2015

"my father has it, my sister has it" does not fit into the mythos of the first film. GL destroyed the force @ ROTJ. this is where he took full creative control and people like Gary Kurtz walked away. from the very beginning, GL wanted a cartoon variety show. he never understood the appeal of SW, from the start --- he laments that the studio wouldn't LET him make the movie he wanted. (there's probably a good reason for that) --- due to studio-control, and a producer who kept saying 'NO', SW became a cultural masterpiece, beyond GL's reckoning --- he never understood it -- in fact, he RESENTED it, as this was NOT his "original vision". so instead, GL surrounded himself with 'yes' men, and made the movie HE wanted to make. and that's what we ended up with: the force-as-syphilis.

you can't blame "midichlorians"; you can't blame "TeH PReQUeLs" that's just GL's need to "validate" the ridiculousness of ROTJ.

it all went downhill @ROTJ -- the entire PT was just GL's attempt to validate ROTJ, after the fact -- to MAKE ROTJ 'make sense'. (it doesn't).

JediDrummer · Dec 17, 2015

I agree that the saga started declining in quality with ROTJ; however, I don't see why a force-sensitive lineage is inconsistent with anything revealed about the Force in the first two films. Just because there are Force-sensitive traits inherited from one's ancestors doesn't mean that those traits are, by definition, genetic in the Star Wars universe. What if the energy of the Force coalesced around one individual (for whatever reason) and continued to be transferred through to the descendants' life-force? What I'm trying to say is, the Star Wars universe is not a purely scientific, naturalistic one. It's really a sort of spiritual mysticism that pervades the dialogue about the Force in the first two films, and I don't think anything said in ROTJ is incompatible with that worldview.

I always imagined the Force to be a fundamentally different substance than any material thing. Obi-Wan says it's an "energy field created by all living things", but I think you're automatically assuming that the energy referred to here is something measurable, quantifiable, scientific -- and that life is simply cellular function. The way I've always understood that quote is to mean that there is a spiritual energy that all living things possess, which is in all and of all, but is in itself its own entity (hence the term "pantheistic monism"). I don't think we are required to assume that a familial affinity for this life-energy is necessarily genetic. My point, then, is that the prequels definitively make the Star Wars universe a naturalistic one with a measurable, physical energy field created by measurable, physical life forms inside of measurable, physical cells, and that flies in the face of the spiritual mysticism revealed in the OT.

Also, if you're so certain that anyone could use the Force (if we're playing by the "rules" of just SW and ESB ), why would Obi-Wan say "That boy was our last hope"? What was so special about Luke? Who cares he's Vader's son... Obi-Wan could've tapped somebody else to be a Jedi, right? Don't both SW and ESB play up the idea that Luke is someone special -- that it means something to be Force-sensitive and related to someone Force-sensitive? I certainly don't think there's anything in those movies to suggest otherwise, at least. And I therefore don't think ROTJ is inconsistent. The PT, on the other hand, makes naturalism normative for the SW universe, and is completely inconsistent with the rules laid out in the OT.

r2d2_26 · Dec 21, 2015

"my father has it, my sister has it" does not fit into the mythos of the first film. GL destroyed the force @ ROTJ. this is where he took full creative control and people like Gary Kurtz walked away. from the very beginning, GL wanted a cartoon variety show. he never understood the appeal of SW, from the start --- he laments that the studio wouldn't LET him make the movie he wanted. (there's probably a good reason for that) --- due to studio-control, and a producer who kept saying 'NO', SW became a cultural masterpiece, beyond GL's reckoning --- he never understood it -- in fact, he RESENTED it, as this was NOT his "original vision". so instead, GL surrounded himself with 'yes' men, and made the movie HE wanted to make. and that's what we ended up with: the force-as-syphilis. you can't blame "midichlorians"; you can't blame "TeH PReQUeLs" that's just GL's need to "validate" the ridiculousness of ROTJ.

it all went downhill @ROTJ -- the entire PT was just GL's attempt to validate ROTJ, after the fact -- to MAKE ROTJ 'make sense'. (it doesn't).

Well, in a way, the whole Force lineage thing was established to some extent in The Empire Strikes Back, when we find out that Darth Vader is Luke's father. They are both strong with the Force. Then ROTJ develops this idea more. But it's misleading. Just because Luke says: "The Force is strong in my family. My father has it, I have it, my sister has it". That doesn't mean that the Force only runs in families. In the prequels, and the Clone Wars cartoon, this is made even clearer. There are Force-sensitive people everywhere, born from parents who are not necessarily Force-sensitive. Remember the Jedi were not allowed to have relationships and so on. So, at least most of them, wouldn't have kids either.

I don't think the fact that the Force is created by life (whether you buy the midichlorians explanation or not) goes against the idea of the Force as a religion. Look at the Jedi, the Sith, the witches from Dathomir (which is cannon as well). They all believed and used the Force, but they had different views on what the Force is like and how to use it. It's like different sects within the same religion. "May the Force be with you" sounds very religious to me as well (peace be with you, may the Lord be with you, etc.).

Cobalt60 · Dec 30, 2015

in ANH we were told the force flows through "all living things". all we need to do is quite our mind, and learn to control the "flow". this means "all living things" can become a jedi.

in ROTJ we are told, "my father has it, my sister has it, my great aunt tessie has it" -- has what? syphilis?

(suddenly the force is a virus -- only "infected" individuals can become a jedi -- and yes! you can be born with this disease, even if your parents don;'t have it --- that's not quite the same as "all living things" LOL).

JediDrummer · Dec 30, 2015

The same phrase could be used referring to traits. "The gift of gab runs strong in my family. My father has it; I have it; and, my sister has it." Why does "having it" necessarily refer to being infected with a physical virus?

Cobalt60 · Dec 30, 2015

"midichlorians". GL's chosen explanation for what you're describing. he could have used "aptitude"-as-explanation, but he did not.

JediDrummer · Dec 30, 2015

Huh, well I guess that's where we just have different ideas of how the Star Wars universe exists. I guess I don't see any reason a "spiritual inheritance" of sorts is inconsistent with the Force as presented in the original SW. I just don't get why GL would turn that concept into a purely physical one with midichlorians.

But you're saying that there isn't really such a thing as being "strong with the Force" inherently (from birth), or having an inherited strength in the Force from ancestors, but rather only being more attuned to the Force with the proper training... right? Interesting... I've never considered that.

r2d2_26 · Dec 30, 2015

JediDrummer said:
Huh, well I guess that's where we just have different ideas of how the Star Wars universe exists. I guess I don't see any reason a "spiritual inheritance" of sorts is inconsistent with the Force as presented in the original SW. I just don't get why GL would turn that concept into a purely physical one with midichlorians.

But you're saying that there isn't really such a thing as being "strong with the Force" inherently (from birth), or having an inherited strength in the Force from ancestors, but rather only being more attuned to the Force with the proper training... right? Interesting... I've never considered that.

But even in the OT it is explained by Obi-Wan and Yoda that life creates the Force (and the Force influences and surrounds all living things). It seems like kind of a contradiction, but not really. The Force is not separate from life. That's why I think midichlorians are not that ridiculous as they might seem (I don't love the explanation, but still fits with the OT explanation). They are living organisms and may help create the Force. The Force is not equivalent to the midichlorians. That is a common misconception, I believe. Whether a person needs a high midichlorian count to be strong in the Force is another issue, but I don't think that's the case.

JediDrummer · Dec 30, 2015

r2d2_26 said:
But even in the OT it is explained by Obi-Wan and Yoda that life creates the Force (and the Force influences and surrounds all living things). It seems like kind of a contradiction, but not really. The Force is not separate from life. That's why I think midichlorians are not that ridiculous as they might seem (I don't love the explanation, but still fits with the OT explanation). They are living organisms and may help create the Force. The Force is not equivalent to the midichlorians. That is a common misconception, I believe. Whether a person needs a high midichlorian count to be strong in the Force is another issue, but I don't think that's the case.

I still have a tough time making the leap from the apparently spiritual to the actually physical. The Force was never some measurable thing... it was always quite mystical. In the Star Wars universe, I think magic and fantasy make more sense than scientific accuracy. You want more science in your science fiction... well that's what Star Trek is for.

I agree with you that, as a concept, midichlorians make enough sense... I just think it's a lousy concept for that fictional, mystical, magical universe.

r2d2_26 · Dec 31, 2015

JediDrummer said:
I still have a tough time making the leap from the apparently spiritual to the actually physical. The Force was never some measurable thing... it was always quite mystical. In the Star Wars universe, I think magic and fantasy make more sense than scientific accuracy. You want more science in your science fiction... well that's what Star Trek is for.

I agree with you that, as a concept, midichlorians make enough sense... I just think it's a lousy concept for that fictional, mystical, magical universe.

I understand what you mean, because I always thought of the Force to be some mystical energy or power, as Han calls it. But then I realized that both Obi-Wan and Yoda say that the Force is created by all living things. I think it should be the other way around. Something that is not created but that exists already in the universe and manipulates and can be manipulated.

The midichlorians may help measure, to some extent, someone's affinity to the Force. But neither the Jedi nor the Sith were right about everything. I think it is possible for a person with a low midichlorian count to become even more powerful than one with high midichlorian count. Look at Yoda. From my point of view, he was more powerful that both Vader and Sidious. It comes down to wisdom, knowledge, and experience with the Force. Remember the "Chosen One" was just a theory, "a prophesy that misread could have been". Whether Anakin brought balance by killing Sidious, or by killing the Jedi and Sidious, I believe that is open to interpretation. Even the characters in the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoon are never 100% certain that Anakin is the chosen one. They always wonder if that is true, but they never say he is for sure. Obi-Wan said "You were the chosen one" to Anakin. I think what he meant by this was: "You were supposed to be the chosen one", given his midichlorian count. Anakin was certainly powerful, but also easily corrupted. I guess we could go on and on with this. But it's an interesting theory to think about...

ThorOakenfelder · Dec 31, 2015

I always assumed that when Obi-Wan and Yoda talked about life creating the force, it wasn't so much an inherent thing in each individual being, as much as the life force of the universe. It's kind of gaia theory. Everything is part of the same system. The people, plants, animals and other living things are all like blood vessels to the universe. A select few have the ability to influence the world around them by tapping into the universe's life force. Whether this was through training only or anomalous genes I couldn't have told you, but an aptitude passed down generationally was not outside the realm of possibility.
Saying that a bacteria was the cause of force ability really threw me out of this beautiful mysticism that I thought existed. Of course, the whole monastic Jedi order really tore down the exclusivity of the wandering master that takes on a single apprentice to pass on his hard won knowledge. Making many Jedi Masters made Yoda much less special.

r2d2_26 · Dec 31, 2015

ThorOakenfelder said:
I always assumed that when Obi-Wan and Yoda talked about life creating the force, it wasn't so much an inherent thing in each individual being, as much as the life force of the universe. It's kind of gaia theory. Everything is part of the same system. The people, plants, animals and other living things are all like blood vessels to the universe. A select few have the ability to influence the world around them by tapping into the universe's life force. Whether this was through training only or anomalous genes I couldn't have told you, but an aptitude passed down generationally was not outside the realm of possibility.
Saying that a bacteria was the cause of force ability really threw me out of this beautiful mysticism that I thought existed. Of course, the whole monastic Jedi order really tore down the exclusivity of the wandering master that takes on a single apprentice to pass on his hard won knowledge. Making many Jedi Masters made Yoda much less special.

Interesting, because to me having other Jedi Masters helps me understand how special Yoda was, by comparison. If Yoda were the only Jedi master, it would be very hard to realize how powerful he really was, because I would have no one else to compare him to.

I agree that it would be more beautiful if the Force and the ability to become a Jedi had nothing to do with midichlorians or lineage. I even don't like when it is said that life creates it (and I didn't mean as an inherent thing in each individual, but more in the sense that the Force emanates from each living thing). I liked it better when I thought that the Force was its own entity. Certain places, even, are stronger with the dark side of the force (like the cave in Dagobah). But these ideas weren't really started in the prequels. They started at least in Return of the Jedi, if not in The Empire Strikes Back.

Luke was supposed to become a Jedi, because his father was one. Those were the first hints we got about the Force tied to genealogy. Return of the Jedi cemented this idea even more with the whole "the Force is strong in my family". Yeah, that doesn't mean 100% that there has to be a lineage component (there were lots of Force-sensitives whose parents were not), but it does seem to imply that if a person is strong with the Force, this would be passed on to their descendants. I'm not completely fond of this idea either. A person's affinity with the Force should not have to do with that person's ancestor's. Plus, the Force affects everyone in the Star Wars universe, Force-sensitive or not. Even if they are not able to become Jedi or Sith or anything like that, I think that the Force can be strong in anyone. I'm not sure if this is considered cannon, but in the Episode II novelization, Yoda says to Padme: "With you, the Force is strong, young senator". And Padme wasn't Force-sensitive, as far as we know. And "may the Force be with you" is said even when referring to other non Force-sensitives.

The Dark Side of the Force is also a mystery. I'm not sure how to look at it other than using the Force, which is neither good nor bad, for evil (selfishness, hate, aggression) instead of good (compassion, love, selflessness).
.

Cobalt60 · Dec 31, 2015

someone needs to take one of these spinoff movies and use it to tell the story of "GATTACA"*, as it applies to midichlorians.
just for the sake of redefining the whole midichlorian.. thing.

(maybe the yoda movie? start with the line from TPM "20,000? that's higher than master yoda" and flesh out the tale of a young yoda (-with-low-midichlorian-count) exceeding his potential like Ethan Hawke in GATTACA).
dude's DNA was "invalid" and that didn't stop him.

* (this movie is my answer to "midichlorians").

Wishing_Well · Dec 31, 2015

I never really saw any huge issue with the midichlorians. I believe, if anything people are choosing to hate something because someone told them too. I find this to be really common with any Prequel hate, its just repeated, regurgitated and thoughtless.

Think of it this way "Gee wiz it seems a lot of people don't like midichlorians, guess I should too."

ThorOakenfelder · Dec 31, 2015

Wishing_Well said:
I never really saw any huge issue with the midichlorians. I believe, if anything people are choosing to hate something because someone told them too. I find this to be really common with any Prequel hate, its just repeated, regurgitated and thoughtless.

Think of it this way "Gee wiz it seems a lot of people don't like midichlorians, guess I should too."

Actually, for me, it was the moment after Qui-Gon said the word, my mouth dropped. I was like WTF is he talking about. Then as he and Obi-Wan discussed the count and he explained them to Anakin, it firmly cemented in my mind as one of the worst revisions to the Star Wars universe that I had ever heard. We went from "It is an energy field created by all living things" to it being a bacteria, the more you had, the more force-y you were.

jabbabon · Dec 31, 2015

I'm just a dumb idiot who enjoyed the prequels and doesn't hate George Lucas but when I was young and saw a new hope I just assumed when obi wan gave Luke his dads lightsaber and explained his father had been a Jedi combined with Owen fearing that Luke was too much like his father this must be some sort of inherited trait. Now I was born in 1980 so maybe the movie had changed by time I saw it at age 5 and like I said I am clearly an idiot as I don't hate George Lucas or the last 4 Star Wars movies he made, but that's my take on it.

r2d2_26 · Dec 31, 2015

Wishing_Well said:
I never really saw any huge issue with the midichlorians. I believe, if anything people are choosing to hate something because someone told them too. I find this to be really common with any Prequel hate, its just repeated, regurgitated and thoughtless.

Think of it this way "Gee wiz it seems a lot of people don't like midichlorians, guess I should too."

I understand what you're saying. I grew up with the OT, but like the prequels also. I seem to remember that there wasn't that much complaining about the prequels until some time later after they came out. Before Episode II, I went to Star Wars Celebration. Everyone was very happy and excited. Lots of people dressed up as Amidala, handmaidens, guards, senators, jedi, Darth Maul, and other prequel-type characters. Some people even told me they thought Episode I was their favorite! I wouldn't go that far myself, but I am just telling you what I saw and heard. After Episode II came out, I still didn't notice too much complaining, at least not for a few months or even a year or more. Maybe part of it is the kind of technology we have now: Facebook, tweeter, smartphones, and so on. It only takes a few people to state their opinion on a movie and it quickly spreads like a virus. Again, I think what you stated is probably true, and technology may be part of the reason.

The prequels are not perfect. They have a lot of flaws (some bad acting/dialogue, too much emphasis on cgi), but the story is great and, in my opinion, more interesting than the original trilogy's story. At the same time, I know that a lot of people have legitimate concerns or truly dislike certain things about the prequels. The same can be said now about The Force Awakens. I love Star Wars, and I try to be as open minded as possible about the movies, the cartoons, the books, ... There are things I don't like about all movies, but I wouldn't say that the prequels are garbage, as some people think. And there are a lot of things about TFA that I do not like, especially that it is basically a copy of the original trilogy (Episodes IV and V). Still, I enjoy the movie and consider it part of the whole saga. No movie is going to be perfect, and it will be virtually impossible to make all fans happy.

r2d2_26 · Dec 31, 2015

ThorOakenfelder said:
Actually, for me, it was the moment after Qui-Gon said the word, my mouth dropped. I was like WTF is he talking about. Then as he and Obi-Wan discussed the count and he explained them to Anakin, it firmly cemented in my mind as one of the worst revisions to the Star Wars universe that I had ever heard. We went from "It is an energy field created by all living things" to it being a bacteria, the more you had, the more force-y you were.

Sort of. But that's what we're discussing here. A person may not have to have a high midichlorian count to be strong with the Force. Midichlorians may be one of many aspects, but not necessarily even the main thing. I think they might make sense only in terms that they are living organisms and life creates the Force. But midichlorians are not equivalent to the Force, which I think is how too many people look at it. Even a person with few midichlorians might be more attuned to the Force, depending on their experience, knowledge, wisdom, and so on. Anakin had a really high midichlorian count but ended up being easily corrupted and wasn't even as powerful as Yoda or even Sidious (based on what we see on the movies). Obi-Wan himself beat him in the lightsaber duel. So, I don't think midichlorians make all the difference. There are other factors to consider.

Masterfett · Jan 2, 2016

IMO, I don't rally see anything negating one or the other. I believe that how the Force was described by Obi-Wan in ANH, can be merged with midichlorians. I just se it as a measuring technique, a gauge of how powerful one Jedi is to the next. The Force can still be the all powerful energy nexus that lives in every living thing.

Jut that some being are stronger in the force than others. And as for the comment that anyone can be a Jedi just because the force is in everyone. We've already learned that's not true. Not every Force sensitive can become a Jedi. But maybe that's too much old EU.

Cobalt60 · Jan 2, 2016

the problem is, they tried to 'quantify' force-sensitivity. for the sake of a blood test, where the only plot-point was "identifying" anakin.
Qui-gon could have used the "search your feelings you know it to be true" plot device. instead they gave us a blood test. a "measuring technique" as you say.

--> NOW we're ranking jedi according to "midichlorian cont" -- vader is stronger than yoda; luke is stronger than the emperor; etc.
(I even saw one source where they ranked every known jedi according to a list -- like ranking acidic compounds on a pH scale, from strongest to weakest).
("a gauge of how powerful one jedi is to the next", as you say)

the ONLY way this jives with what obi-wan said in IV is to say that "midichlorian count" is like "cholesterol levels" -- if you "work out" and "eat right" then you can change the number.

( if you train hard, you can get stronger in the force --- otherwise, WHY TRAIN AT ALL?)

r2d2_26 · Jan 2, 2016

Cobalt60 said:
the problem is, they tried to 'quantify' force-sensitivity. for the sake of a blood test, where the only plot-point was "identifying" anakin.
Qui-gon could have used the "search your feelings you know it to be true" plot device. instead they gave us a blood test. a "measuring technique" as you say.

--> NOW we're ranking jedi according to "midichlorian cont" -- vader is stronger than yoda; luke is stronger than the emperor; etc.
(I even saw one source where they ranked every known jedi according to a list -- like ranking acidic compounds on a pH scale, from strongest to weakest).
("a gauge of how powerful one jedi is to the next", as you say)

the ONLY way this jives with what obi-wan said in IV is to say that "midichlorian count" is like "cholesterol levels" -- if you "work out" and "eat right" then you can change the number.

( if you train hard, you can get stronger in the force --- otherwise, WHY TRAIN AT ALL?)

That could be a valid explanation. I also have stated that the Jedi and Sith didn't know everything. So, there was probably much more than just a high midichlorian count to determine if someone is strong in the Force. A high midichlorian count may just be a possible indicator of Force-strength-wisdom, but not an absolute thing, probably not even a requirement. When Obi-Wan asked Qui-Gon "what does that mean?", Qui-Gon responded "I'm not sure". He already knew that the Force was strong in Anakin. He was trying to determine how strong by using a possible indicator. Then he assumed that Anakin was the chosen one. Whether he was truly the chosen one, I think that is debatable. In the Clone Wars cartoon, season 6, the Force ghosts tell Yoda that there would be someone else, a new hope, something of that sort (I can't remember the lines specifically). Maybe you're right, though. With training, meditation, and so on, the midichlorian count could increase in a person, and the Force would emanate from the individual more strongly. I don't love the explanation (trying to quantify the Force ability of a person), but it doesn't really seem to contradict what they say, that life creates it (the Force). I wonder what makes certain places, locations, strong with the dark side, as in TESB. Are the midichlorians somehow corrupted? Why is the Force dark in certain places, if no one is present there, except for maybe plants and animals?

JediDrummer · Jan 3, 2016

r2d2_26 said:
I wonder what makes certain places, locations, strong with the dark side, as in TESB. Are the midichlorians somehow corrupted? Why is the Force dark in certain places, if no one is present there, except for maybe plants and animals?

I thought that some dark Jedi or Sith had died in the cave on Dagobah, and his spirit inhabited it... or am I just making that up?

Certainly not a foreign concept elsewhere in the EU. Which, once again, force ghosts haunting tombs sounds an awful lot like spiritual mysticism. Do Force ghosts have midichlorian counts? How come those "powerful in the Force" can reappear as Force ghosts if their power is rooted in the physical? Makes no sense.

Cobalt60 · Jan 3, 2016

well to be fair, qui-gon said the midichlorians are microscopic life forms that reside in all living cells, they constantly speak to us, and tell us the 'will of the force' --- he didn't actually say that they give a jedi his power --- he only said, they connect a jedi to the "will of the force".

the rest is EU nonsense. *shrug*

Cobalt60 · Jan 3, 2016

^^ the jedi council had very little interest in the will of the force -- they only cared about the will of the politicians. we can assume (from qui-gon's dialog alone) that they all had low midichlorian count. *shrug*
((they were not AWARE of the "will of the force", this suggest low midichlorians))

^^ the sith had absolutely NO interest in the will of the force -- they only cared about being selfish -- we can assume (based on qui-gon's dialog alone) they had NO midichlorian count
((they had NO connection to "the will of the force", this suggests NO midichlorians))

AFAIK, at no point in the saga does anybody say that midichlorians make a jedi "powerful" -- it only makes him aware of the "will of the force".

(this is why qui-gon believes anakin's birth WAS "the will of the force" and, thus, that anakin is the chosen one --- because midichlorians = "will of the force").

((nowhere does it say, midichlorians = "power of the force user")) *shrug* ((that's just EU nonsense))

JediDrummer · Jan 3, 2016

^^ Ooh, good observation...

r2d2_26 · Jan 3, 2016

Cobalt60 said:
^^ the jedi council had very little interest in the will of the force -- they only cared about the will of the politicians. we can assume (from qui-gon's dialog alone) that they all had low midichlorian count. *shrug*
((they were not AWARE of the "will of the force", this suggest low midichlorians))

^^ the sith had absolutely NO interest in the will of the force -- they only cared about being selfish -- we can assume (based on qui-gon's dialog alone) they had NO midichlorian count
((they had NO connection to "the will of the force", this suggests NO midichlorians))

AFAIK, at no point in the saga does anybody say that midichlorians make a jedi "powerful" -- it only makes him aware of the "will of the force".

(this is why qui-gon believes anakin's birth WAS "the will of the force" and, thus, that anakin is the chosen one --- because midichlorians = "will of the force").

((nowhere does it say, midichlorians = "power of the force user")) *shrug* ((that's just EU nonsense))

I really like your point of view. Plus, too many people think that the Force = midichlorians, which is even more ridiculous than high midichlorian count implies high Force power. "With time and training, Anakin, you will [understand]". :grin:

Also, "the dark side clouds everything" might imply that the dark side of the Force signifies the power of the Force used against or negating the will of the Force, which then would not allow others to listen to the midichlorians. Maybe in Dagobah's cave there was some kind of light side void of some sort? But I've always interpreted a "Force void", as in Star Wars videogames (probably not cannon anymore), as no Force at all, as if the place was a singularity in the Force.

Do you think that "life creates it [the Force], makes it grow..." does not implicitly refer to the midichlorians exclusively, but anything else alive as well? I guess that would certainly be possible.

Palpatine says that Darth Plagueis "could influence the midichlorians to create life". So, the midichlorians and the Force affect each other.