Marvel's Spider-Man 2 - Far From Home (2019)

GNT

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I enjoyed it, Mysterio was always a favourite villain of mine so it's nice to see him finally on screen. It's nice to see new villains on screen and not rehashes of villains they've done before so mega props to Marvel for bring them to screen and doing them justice. I look forward to seeing how they handle Peter in the next few films.
 
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I am pretty much convinced the follow-up will have Kraven the Hunter, but I have to wonder how they'll go about his character. In the Ultimate line he was like a reality TV star, he sort of WAS like Dog the Bounty Hunter. The issue there is he's kind of a joke character. He's not really treated as actually all that threatening whatsoever, he's almost Steve Irwin-like, probably a subtle commentary on how the character never really seemed to resonate with people until the Kraven's Last Hunt storyline. In Ultimate he then basically juices on animal DNA and evolves into what's basically the equivalent of (if familiar) the Puma character. He's like a feral beast in some ways. Yet even then he never really accomplishes much. So I think the film version is better off going with the 616 incarnation. However, the MCU usually seems to blend the two. I just think the 616 version should be the more dominant here.
 
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this approach might be cool...

https://movieweb.com/spider-man-3-mcu-kraven-hunter-black-panther-connection/

(to make Kraven come from a disgraced wakanda tribe, c/w wakanda tech).
I can roll with that. It would make sense, tying him to Wakanda. It would cohesively joint the universe even more while also explaining away the slightly ridiculous primitive African weaponry gimmick. I see two ways to go with it: 1. You could still retain him being Russian. To keep it more authentic to the comics, still keep him a Great White Hunter type, but say he traveled to Africa and stumbled upon Wakanda and was trained by a tribe that later excommunicated him for both not being one of them and also for perhaps being a bit...extreme. You could even tie his super strength and enhanced senses to the stuff Panther inhales too as Kraven does a similar potion/drug thing. You could also go with 2. If any character were to have a race swap, I could live with Kraven the Hunter as his shtick just lends itself to that and have him just literally be Wakandan.
 
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^^ re: angle#1.
make him the russian aristocrat / trophy hunter, who stumbled upon Wakanda...
and was graciously taken in by one of their tribes...(as you say)..
...but in the end he killed his benevolent hosts, he stole their tech,
he wiped out their entire tribe, is a NOW a wanted outlaw in Wakanda*
--> when he shows up in New York to "hunt" spider-man, this brings BP into the mix,
as BP goes after Kraven (seeking revenge for the slain tribe and the stolen tech). B)



either way, tying him to Wakanda is a no-brainer.
Kraven has always exuded an African Theme (in his costume and his primitive weaponry);
in the MCU, Africa is synonymous with Wakanda --> giving Kraven an ****nal of Wakandan weaponry/tech is, really, the only way to do this.

* I'd like to see Kraven as the villain in BOTH: spiderman3 and BP2.
(BP2 could come first, as a Kraven Origin Story, introducing Kraven and pitting him against BP)
 
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^^ re: angle#1.
make him the russian aristocrat / trophy hunter, who stumbled upon Wakanda...
and was graciously taken in by one of their tribes...(as you say)..
...but in the end he killed his benevolent hosts, he stole their tech,
he wiped out their entire tribe, is a NOW a wanted outlaw in Wakanda*
--> when he shows up in New York to "hunt" spider-man, this brings BP into the mix,
as BP goes after Kraven (seeking revenge for the slain tribe and the stolen tech). B)



either way, tying him to Wakanda is a no-brainer.
Kraven has always exuded an African Theme (in his costume and his primitive weaponry);
in the MCU, Africa is synonymous with Wakanda --> giving Kraven an ****nal of Wakandan weaponry/tech is, really, the only way to do this.

* I'd like to see Kraven as the villain in BOTH: spiderman3 and BP2.
(BP2 could come first, as a Kraven Origin Story, introducing Kraven and pitting him against BP)
I like that a lot! Good team effort! I think we nailed a GREAT way to to do this because, let's be honest, I do find Kraven one of the more difficult to make extremely interesting on film. This would make him interesting! He doesn't really offer much as far as spectacle goes. Bolas, nets, spears, and knives just seem a step down in threat level when compared to what's been shown with Vulture or Mysterio. Even just giving him guns seems not THAT big a deal. But if you give him Wakanda tech. you have a challenge now. Plus exactly, he's ALWAYS been African themed. It's a natural shoo-in fit. Here's an idea: since I do feel that the character is likely inspired by The Most Dangerous Game novel and the Predator was clearly a science-fiction horror spin on that...what if he has a cloaking device like the Predator? I do think that the intellect of Kraven has to absolutely be the focus of the character in that, even with Wakanda tech., he's still not all that visually exciting. To counteract that, you make him more personal. Make this a more cerebral story, akin to Far From Home's Mysterio more intellectual villain aspects. Plus it makes a good parallel, Vulture representing the every-man villain who adapted tech. for a personal agenda, Mysterio representing a facade puppet-master villain who utilized tech. in a futurist way, Kraven can utilize tech. in a primal naturist way. Past: Kraven. Present: Vulture. Future: Mysterio. Each representing a period of time. Make Kraven a sort of thinking man's villain. Make it a true hunt story, mind games (but in a different way than Mysterio), emphasize his abilities like tracking, trapping, and such. Then show that if you do fall into his arms, you're basically done. It's a game to him but also emphasize something like the twist of Kraven's Last Hunt. He's more in this for self-validation than actually killing Spider-Man. Perhaps even end it with Kraven letting him go, but absolutely acknowledging that he did indeed defeat the spider and could have finished him...he just didn't want to. Maybe because he learns he's a child and feels there's no real honor or sport in killing a minor? It's more about the adrenaline of the hunt than it is that actual kill itself.

I think the ideas we're pitching would be MUCH better than a Steve Irwin style reality TV star. That seems so tongue in cheek campy, Kraven needs to be FRIGHTENING! A lion in man clothes.
 
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Tony Stark basically being a surrogate Uncle Ben. Not mentioning Uncle Ben..
Did you happen to notice that Peter took his Uncle's suitcase on the trip, but it suspiciously didn't return? Conveniently being blown up.

While I have always wanted the Hunter to be on the big screen, I do have more preferable characters I'd like to see first. Somehow though I think he will start out as a Villain them become an ally, the same way Mysterio started as a Hero/Ally then became a Villain.


I'm curious if they will try to keep Spider-Man movies stand alone as opposed to going the ensemble route like Civil War? At some point I expect he'll have to go up against more than one adversary at a time.
Which makes me wonder if their version the Sinister Six will be different than previous rumored.
 
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Did you happen to notice that Peter took his Uncle's suitcase on the trip, but it suspiciously didn't return? Conveniently being blown up.

While I have always wanted the Hunter to be on the big screen, I do have more preferable characters I'd like to see first. Somehow though I think he will start out as a Villain them become an ally, the same way Mysterio started as a Hero/Ally then became a Villain.


I'm curious if they will try to keep Spider-Man movies stand alone as opposed to going the ensemble route like Civil War? At some point I expect he'll have to go up against more than one adversary at a time.
Which makes me wonder if their version the Sinister Six will be different than previous rumored.
I did catch that! It's the only relic of Ben in...I want to say...any of these modern films and it's never even MENTIONED! This has become my only real nitpick of the series. Again like I said, I can live with avoiding it for a time, but as he gets more and more films, it's becoming increasingly more jarring that Ben is NEVER referred to once. I don't want to feel like Peter and May simply don't care! I really think this was the film where he should have been brought up, but I will say I could let it slide. But by the third, if he's not brought up, albeit briefly, it'll now officially bother me. I think you can only get away with not mentioning him for so long...and they're beginning to push it.

Yeah I'll be honest; I like Kraven, but I've never been a HUGE fan of him outside of just Kraven's Last Hunt. That was phenomenal. I'm just rolling with Kraven ideas because the plot seems set up for his intro. I'd rather see some others too. I know they don't want to re-do characters quite yet though, but I think they'll have to eventually. Norman Osborne/Green Goblin and Dr. Octopus are just too integral to the mythos to leave out forever if they intend on keeping this going for a good long time. That also kind of rules out Hobgoblin because I wouldn't want him before Green Goblin for obvious reasons. The Spider-Man: Animated Series introduced Hobgoblin first and it always bothered me. I wouldn't want Carnage before Venom either for obvious reasons, so that rules another undone villain out for me. Plus he's coming in the Venom film universe which still seem up in the air as to whether or not it will be somehow connected to this Spider-Man series. Honestly? I kind of don't want it to be rather than do. I think I'd rather see Chameleon (though I STILL think maybe, just maybe, he really is in Far From Home and will be revealed in the next film) or Scorpion. The only real problem is, I'm not sure if those characters can really carry an entire movie like Kraven can.
 
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Saw it again last night, and it was even better than the first viewing! Something I caught last time was the license plate on one of SHIELD's/"Fury"'s cars had "ASM" and some numbers which I thought might be "Amazing Spider-Man" and some important comic issue numbering. Later thought it was just coincidental, then noticed last night another SHIELD vehicle had "MTU" and some numbers and realized they must refer to "Marvel Team-Up", a terrific Spidey-centered comic! And later in the film, I saw they had a plate with "HNM" but couldn't place the reference, if there is one.

Edit: just read a long easter egg webpage and the HNM refers to Hawkeye and Mockingbird, in which Skrulls are showing up as humans,especially as Fury! Very cool.
 
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Saw it again last night, and it was even better than the first viewing! Something I caught last time was the license plate on one of SHIELD's/"Fury"'s cars had "ASM" and some numbers which I thought might be "Amazing Spider-Man" and some important comic issue numbering. Later thought it was just coincidental, then noticed last night another SHIELD vehicle had "MTU" and some numbers and realized they must refer to "Marvel Team-Up", a terrific Spidey-centered comic! And later in the film, I saw they had a plate with "HNM" but couldn't place the reference, if there is one.

Edit: just read a long easter egg webpage and the HNM refers to Hawkeye and Mockingbird, in which Skrulls are showing up as humans,especially as Fury! Very cool.
It TOTALLY is so much better second time. I've seen it six times now. Hah!

Yeah that was pretty neat. There was always a bit of debate as to what these elementals really were. Some said the beginnings of the sinister six, some said they were supposed to represent the actual comic elementals, but I was always of the opinion that they were illusions that were clearly intended to be this universes representations of Hydroman, Molten Man, and Sandman. But when the Easter Eggs hit, the blatant physical "wink" to those three characters was confirmed. In the water elemental scene, there's the boat that says ASM212, meaning Amazing Spider-Man #212, the first appearance of Hydroman. In the fire elemental scene, there's the licence plate that reads ASM2865, which translated to Amazing Spider-Man #28 in 1965, the first appearance of Molten Man. That's REALLY cool about the HNM, I have not heard that one yet! I think the earth elemental is obviously meant to represent Sandman, as brief as his appearance is in the film, but I couldn't find any Easter Egg with his first appearance on it. I'll have to look in the scene for what I assume would be ASM463, Amazing Spider-Man #4 in 1963. I wouldn't be surprised if it's hidden in there somewhere. There was some speculation that the air elemental would be Electro-inspired as the trailers did show an awful lot of lightening in what appeared to be an approaching storm. However, now we know the air elemental never actually individually appears in the film. The only time you sort of see it is in the climax when it's combined with all of them. But I really didn't feel like Electro worked for it! I thought maybe Whirlwind, but he's not really a Spider-Man character. So I did some research and discovered a Spider-Man villain, extremely obscure, called Cyclone that I assumed had to be what the air elemental represented. But THEN I found an Easter Egg listing that confirmed it...but it doesn't mention what I noticed. In the scene where Peter and MJ first kiss, there's a licence place that reads ASM143 (an issue even I've never read), which translated to Amazing Spider-Man #143, which is not only the first time that Peter and MJ kiss in comics but also the first appearance of the Cyclone! Bingo! It's probably why the air elemental is also the least used as Cyclone is by far the least know of the elemental inspirations. Heck, even I never heard of him until a few weeks ago. Apparently he wasn't a one and done villains though, but he certainly never was a regularly used character. I'm not sure what specifically the Marvel Team-Up would be referencing. Do you remember what scene that was featured in in particular? I wanna do some digging! I'm going to take a stab at it and guess, since it's Team-Up, it's something about Mysterio and Spidey teaming in the film...and might be a reference to a Team-Up issue where Spidey and some hero fight Mysterio. Maybe? Just an educated guess...but I'm not actually sure if Mysterio was ever even in Team-Up.

I LOVE when they do stuff like this, little things or tributes and nods that only the really die-hard life long fans will catch. I remember FREAKING OUT when Melvin Potter threw sawblades in Netflix Daredevil Season 1, a wink to his comic alter ego the Gladiator whom had sawblades on his gauntlets. I equally flipped when I noticed Stilt-Man's legs in the background of his workshop in a later episode, one of my favorite so bad they're good cornball villains. Not MUC, but like having the record album in X-Men: Apocalypse (bad film IMO but fun scene) be a Dazzler album or like way back in Spider-Man 2 when an intern suggests to Jonah that the name Dr. Strange would be good for Otto Octavius, to which he replies, "That's good! ...but it's taken!" Stuff like that is just a downright blast.
 
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Daigo_Bah

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I'm not sure what specifically the Marvel Team-Up would be referencing. Do you remember what scene that was featured in in particular? I wanna do some digging! I'm going to take a stab at it and guess, since it's Team-Up, it's something about Mysterio and Spidey teaming in the film...and might be a reference to a Team-Up issue where Spidey and some hero fight Mysterio. Maybe? Just an educated guess...but I'm not actually sure if Mysterio was ever even in Team-Up.
Found the site again: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/50-spider-man-far-home-easter-eggs-references-1222176

Check out all the references, including an issue of MTU where Spidey teams up with Fury (though not against Mysterio), and that the "streets" in Venice were all named for past Spider-Man comic writers, though with an "o" added to the end of theirnames (like Bendiso for Bendis, etc.). Cool!
 
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Found the site again: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/50-spider-man-far-home-easter-eggs-references-1222176

Check out all the references, including an issue of MTU where Spidey teams up with Fury (though not against Mysterio), and that the "streets" in Venice were all named for past Spider-Man comic writers, though with an "o" added to the end of theirnames (like Bendiso for Bendis, etc.). Cool!
Oh that's so neat! Thank you SO much! I didn't know a BUNCH of these! One thing that's so cool about it is that it really shows that 1. they actually do their research on the source material and 2. they really must love this stuff too.
 
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I was able to catch much more the second viewing as well, there is a lot of material hidden away in this movie. Some of it just passes by too quickly, as all MCU movies seem to do. But this one felt like there was more packed into every corner than usual.
 
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I was able to catch much more the second viewing as well, there is a lot of material hidden away in this movie. Some of it just passes by too quickly, as all MCU movies seem to do. But this one felt like there was more packed into every corner than usual.
Mysterio is kind of one of those characters. It's like the movie The Prestige, you really need to see it twice to truly appreciate. The second time feels almost like a completely different movie. With this Spider-Man movie, now you can really appreciate the depths to which Beck went in his plan. You view like, for example, his heart to heart with Peter in a very different way the second time seeing it. Plus honestly, I could watch the Mysterio nightmare sequence on infinite loop. =P
 
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GNT

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Found the site again: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/50-spider-man-far-home-easter-eggs-references-1222176

Check out all the references, including an issue of MTU where Spidey teams up with Fury (though not against Mysterio), and that the "streets" in Venice were all named for past Spider-Man comic writers, though with an "o" added to the end of theirnames (like Bendiso for Bendis, etc.). Cool!
Neat read thanks for that, Marvel lies to include lots of easter eggs in their movies, so will have to check them out when it gets released on DVD
 
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So I have to say, oh my God, I could NOT be happier with how they did Mysterio. Granted I am bias, he's been my favorite Marvel villain since I was a child, but I sincerely think he's now one of the best MCU foes. I never quite understood why Kilmonger gets ranked as highly as he does. Everyone always complained about how most the villains were just mirror parallels of their protagonist: Iron Monger is evil Iron Man, Abomination is evil Hulk, Yellowjacket is evil Antman, etc. That's ultimately all Kimonger is. He's just evil Black Panther. Heck his outfit isn't even unique, it's almost identically T'challa's. Highly overrated. But I am please to see Mysterio is already being put among the top tier MCU villains. He's just so unique, not just among Spider-Man films, not just among MCU films, but among superhero films in general. Has anything like him really ever been attempted before on film? But now I am a but more understanding of why it took him so long to be used in a film. Was it even possible to do him justice when real-world special effects couldn't really render that his shtick essentially is "super" special effects.
I gotta agree with Kilmonger... The CG fight between him and Black Panther at the end makes me cringe. His motivation and portrayal by MBJordan was really good, but as another dead villain... overrated.

Mysterio and Vulture. Who would have thought those would be the top Spider-Man villains in the MCU? I sincerely hope Beck isn't dead because Gyllenhaal really did come off as sympathetic, but crazy and I'd love to see him again. I have to think a Sinister Six is what this is building to.

I think you bring back Gyllenhaal as Mysterio, Keaton as Vulture and Michael Mando as Scorpion. Then you have the intro to the Spider-Man: Sinister Six movie bring in Doctor Octopus along with Norman Osborne (not yet Goblin but working with this group) and then throw in Shocker (Bokeem Woodbine) and give him some Electro-like powers. You don't have enough run time for all of them, so Scorpion and Shocker make for a light workout and Vulture ends up being sympathetic to Parker and ends up as an almost ally. Just like the original Sinister Six... they kidnap May. Movie writes itself.

I've seen some fan casts for Doc Oc and honestly, I have to think I'd go with Jack Black... just tone down his "Jack Blackiness" to a bare minimum. Or Rainn Wilson would also be awesome, if a bit too tall.

Kraven never did anything for me and Electro was wrecked by another Spider-Man movie...
 
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As far as Far from Home goes, I just want more. Holland is perfect and I want a Spider-Man movie every year now. Cross over and have him fight Tom Hardy as Venom at some point and I can die happy.

The Mysterio sequences stole the show.
 
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Beck should stay dead, and Mysterio should become a mischievous AI, a figment of the 'B.A.R.F.' technology -- like a disembodied Ultron, who appears as a hologram.
 
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Beck should stay dead, and Mysterio should become a mischievous AI, a figment of the 'B.A.R.F.' technology -- like a disembodied Ultron, who appears as a hologram.
Maybe they bring back Beck... but it's Chameleon? Could work.

BTW, did everyone realize that the dude that Obediah Stane yelled at in Iron Man that became Beck's right hand was Peter Billingsly? The kid that 'shot his eye out' in A Christmas Story... no crap.
 
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I gotta agree with Kilmonger... The CG fight between him and Black Panther at the end makes me cringe. His motivation and portrayal by MBJordan was really good, but as another dead villain... overrated.

Mysterio and Vulture. Who would have thought those would be the top Spider-Man villains in the MCU? I sincerely hope Beck isn't dead because Gyllenhaal really did come off as sympathetic, but crazy and I'd love to see him again. I have to think a Sinister Six is what this is building to.

I think you bring back Gyllenhaal as Mysterio, Keaton as Vulture and Michael Mando as Scorpion. Then you have the intro to the Spider-Man: Sinister Six movie bring in Doctor Octopus along with Norman Osborne (not yet Goblin but working with this group) and then throw in Shocker (Bokeem Woodbine) and give him some Electro-like powers. You don't have enough run time for all of them, so Scorpion and Shocker make for a light workout and Vulture ends up being sympathetic to Parker and ends up as an almost ally. Just like the original Sinister Six... they kidnap May. Movie writes itself.

I've seen some fan casts for Doc Oc and honestly, I have to think I'd go with Jack Black... just tone down his "Jack Blackiness" to a bare minimum. Or Rainn Wilson would also be awesome, if a bit too tall.

Kraven never did anything for me and Electro was wrecked by another Spider-Man movie...

Right!? When they first announced Vulture as the starring villain for Homecoming...I was utterly disappointed. I always considered him one of the absolute lamest of the rogues gallery. Most iconic version, the one I'm most familiar with, he's a freaking elderly man with wings who does basically nothing more than rob banks. That just oozes cornball. I mean firstly, I don't think "How IMPOSING!" when I think geriatrics. HA! Secondly, flight is utterly generic by the point of even his creation. How many characters could fly...AND do something else? The lastly, like I said, he's predominately never done some grandiose scheme. He's usually portrayed as just some glorified and bitter petty thief. He offered more villain of the week stories than any truly stand-out issues.

Then the movie came out...and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Vulture...was...FANTASTIC! They found a way to make him decently faithful, but also adapt new aspects to make him more relevant, motivated, and intimidating. Even strangely identifiable! If you had told me a year before Homecoming came out that Vulture, up until that point, would become my favorite Spider-Man villain on screen...I'd have scoffed. I'd never have believed it! Keaton nailed the role. Some aspects I really enjoyed were that, for one, he's not evil. He's bitterly mistaken, but he's not psychotic. I liked that he didn't want to kill Peter, even when he says he does he always seems to be hesitant and more like a punishing father figure delivering a harsh lesson than actually attempting murder. Which, in a lot of ways in the film, is exactly his character. He is doing this FOR his family, FOR his daughter, because he is a father, because he's blue collar. Funny how a street-level threat, he's not a global terrorist of a cosmic tyrant, is one of the BEST villain characters in the MCU. He was even sincerely willing to make a truce, and once given the option to sell Peter out in prison...he doesn't. The car ride to the dance is by far the best scene, how he slowly but surely works it all out. While him being the father of Liz is a film invention, it felt very akin to old Ditko/Lee twists in the classic Spidey books. It just worked! That moment is so well acted, written, directed, shot. I actually read that that's the scene that convinced Keaton to take the role. I even really enjoyed that the Vulture, when you break it down, was a literal scavenger. Very clever!

If you've never see this video analysis, you might appreciate it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXSW9JcQnik&list=PL9fMTieMhS2T4-VY2YXmzq4q-2sHNgUol&index=18&t=0s

Mysterio dethroned Vulture for me though. What a presence! Puppet-Master type villains have always been the most interesting to me. Now I knew what potential the character had, but sadly for many years people always just saw the costume and wrote him off as pure camp cheese. For example, that fundamental misunderstanding of the character was exactly what Sam Raimi had planned for Mysterio in Spider-Man 4. It even made it so far into production that I've seen the official storyboards. Mysterio was a fat loser played by Bruce Campbell (do enjoy the casting though) who, in the film itself, is basically a B-Grade joke in a home-made cosplay-quality costume that's taken out without much effort whatsoever. The opening of the film was going to be his arrest and, well, that's it. Coincidentally, Spider-Man 4 also was to have Vulture as the starring villain, so I wonder if perhaps these two being the first used in the MCU had something to do with that. I'd have absolutely hated seeing Mysterio belittled so badly. Over the years, some writers have seen what he can truly offer and have established him as truly horrifying. Good examples would be Old Man Logan and Kevin Smith's Daredevil run. So finally getting to see Mysterio done properly was my comic movie dream come true. I've already talked in depth on this one, so I'll spare, but also yes...the Mysterio nightmare illusion sequence (in particular) really shows what terror, intellect, and threat he really CAN and SHOULD bring to a film plot when properly done. He's far from a joke!

As for the Sinister Six, well we have three established villains already (Vulture, Shocker, and Mysterio), one that is pretty much shown to be getting set up (Scorpion), and one I believe a set up has been made for in Kraven the Hunter. That totals five! Yes agreed, Mysterio isn't dead. I'll get into my theory as to how/why later. I think the final member has to be Doc Ock. It simply would feel wrong to have a Sinister Six without its leader. He's been the leader in every formation as well! He's just integral to both general Spider-Man and Sinister Six lore. This would deliver two returning from this continuity (Vulture and Mysterio), one returning to be redone from a prior Spider-Man franchise (Doc Ock), one getting a major more comic accurate overhaul and costume (Shocker), and two to adhere to their rule of wanting to do character not yet featured in a film (Kraven and Scorpion). I don't think I'd attempt the Six until after the next film though, which I'd dedicate to Kraven. I also agree that I think a smart way to go about them would be to established Norman Osborne as their benefactor, perhaps once the Six fail in their ploy, he pulls a traditional villain "I'll do it myself!" spiel and then becomes Green Goblin.
 
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They really don't have to strictly adhere to the Comics for Sinister Six, liberties have been taken in the MCU as it is. I think bring back a few iconic characters and then mix them up with some even lesser known ones.

Kraven
Chameleon
Tinkerer - has already appeared in the MCU.
Morbius
Tombstone
Black Cat/Felica Hardy
Kaine Parker/Scarlet Spider - "Earth 616"
Mister Negative

I think it's finally time to introduce Black Cat, and Mobius getting his own movie could have tie-ins. Tinkerer and Tombstone could be the ones who are killed off somehow. But at some point the previous movie's Villains will have to appear. It's a given. What's odd is that if they ever to resurrect Goblin, I'd think like it to be Willem Defoe! He definitely had that crazy unhinged personality down.
 
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they should do the 'Origin of the Jackal' storyline, which results in the spiderman clone.
 
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As for the Sinister Six, well we have three established villains already (Vulture, Shocker, and Mysterio), one that is pretty much shown to be getting set up (Scorpion), and one I believe a set up has been made for in Kraven the Hunter. That totals five! Yes agreed, Mysterio isn't dead. I'll get into my theory as to how/why later. I think the final member has to be Doc Ock. It simply would feel wrong to have a Sinister Six without its leader. He's been the leader in every formation as well! He's just integral to both general Spider-Man and Sinister Six lore. This would deliver two returning from this continuity (Vulture and Mysterio), one returning to be redone from a prior Spider-Man franchise (Doc Ock), one getting a major more comic accurate overhaul and costume (Shocker), and two to adhere to their rule of wanting to do character not yet featured in a film (Kraven and Scorpion). I don't think I'd attempt the Six until after the next film though, which I'd dedicate to Kraven. I also agree that I think a smart way to go about them would be to established Norman Osborne as their benefactor, perhaps once the Six fail in their ploy, he pulls a traditional villain "I'll do it myself!" spiel and then becomes Green Goblin.
My big concern is that we have Tom Holland, who is 23 years old. How long can we expect him to be doing this? I can see one more movie with him in high school and then we move on from there with him as a photographer, but in 2022 (didn't see anything listed for Spider-Man in 2020 or 21) he'll be 25... Will he do this as long as Jackman did?

I want the Sinister Six. We almost got it once... (thank goodness that never happened). Kraven adds nothing to Spider-Man's 'journey' in my opinion. I guess I just never liked the character. Perhaps if they got rid of the Lion Tamer getup, but then... what would Kraven be?

We agree on Green Goblin being introduced. I like the "I'll do it myself"... kinda like Thanos?
 
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They really don't have to strictly adhere to the Comics for Sinister Six, liberties have been taken in the MCU as it is. I think bring back a few iconic characters and then mix them up with some even lesser known ones.

Kraven
Chameleon
Tinkerer - has already appeared in the MCU.
Morbius
Tombstone
Black Cat/Felica Hardy
Kaine Parker/Scarlet Spider - "Earth 616"
Mister Negative

I think it's finally time to introduce Black Cat, and Mobius getting his own movie could have tie-ins. Tinkerer and Tombstone could be the ones who are killed off somehow. But at some point the previous movie's Villains will have to appear. It's a given. What's odd is that if they ever to resurrect Goblin, I'd think like it to be Willem Defoe! He definitely had that crazy unhinged personality down.
Most media didn't go with the iconic first iteration. The 90's show had Chameleon, Scorpion, Shocker, and Rhino with only Ock and Mysterio being retained. Now I do know why some of that happened though. I want to say I read that the supposed in the making James Cameron film starred Electro and Sandman, oddly, and so those rolls couldn't be used in the animated series. That's why Hydroman was used more predominately that ever in the comics, he basically is Sandman just water, and Electro did come...but only in the last season once the Cameron film was abandoned. Now there has been somewhat of a misconception with Shocker over the years. People thought he represented Electro, but he's not actually electricity. The name refers to "shockwaves," as in concussive sound, not as in electric shock. But the issue is, the cartoon sure made it look like electrical blasts. The new PS4 game has a different Six line-up as well. So I mean I can def. roll with it not being the exact original line-up, for sure, but I think it's already really shaping up not to be with Scorpion and Shocker.

I don't really have much interest in seeing Morbius, Tombstone, Mr. Negative, Jackal, and especially Kaine. To each their own, but I'd steer as faaaaaaaaaaaar away from any even iota of the clone saga as possible. It almost destroyed the Spider-Man franchise and helped bankrupt Marvel in the 90's. For Morbius, I like the character, but I never really liked him for Spider-Man. Spidey and vampires just seem like oil and water to me. Nothing about Spider-Man ever struck me as Gothic, predominately what I associate with vampire atmosphere, so I always just felt like it was an odd pairing. Characters like Moonknight or Blade mesh with Morbius better. So I think saving Morbius for Blade is the better way to go. For Tombstone and Mr. Negative, I just don't really see what they have to offer that other bigger characters can offer better.

Now Black Cat I def. think should be introduced eventually, it's actually kind of surprising she hasn't happened already. Now another thing is, society seems to have forgotten that Kingpin was originally a Spider-Man character. If it WERE possible, as Feige has mentioned that they are considering bringing in some of the Netflix show characters now that they're cancelled, I'd love to see Vincent's Fisk in there someday. Plus yes, while I was never crazy about the original Raimi Spider-Man and ALWAYS hated the Green Goblin's costume, Dafoe WAS the perfect casting for the role. I always argued that he looked more like a goblin OUT of the costume. HA!
 
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I was actually going to mention Kingpin, I've always preferred him as a Spider-Man villain. But figured they would want him for Daredevil, or perhaps it's too soon with him being on Netflix show. But I'd definitely love to see him as the Thanos of Spider-Man.

I also agree, that it's only a matter of time before Tom is too old to convincingly play teenage Parker. And while that is the era that most people seem to prefer, i think it is time to slowly move to older Parker at College and being a "freelance" photographer. The snap setting everything 5 years later is both good and bad. Even though he's one of the youngest to be cast, even he will grow tired and want other things at some point.

Spider-Man and his Amazing friends would be nice to see at some point too, once he's in College. While I know Bobby is an X-Men character, I would think at least Firestar could be used.
 
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I was actually going to mention Kingpin, I've always preferred him as a Spider-Man villain. But figured they would want him for Daredevil, or perhaps it's too soon with him being on Netflix show. But I'd definitely love to see him as the Thanos of Spider-Man.

I also agree, that it's only a matter of time before Tom is too old to convincingly play teenage Parker. And while that is the era that most people seem to prefer, i think it is time to slowly move to older Parker at College and being a "freelance" photographer. The snap setting everything 5 years later is both good and bad. Even though he's one of the youngest to be cast, even he will grow tired and want other things at some point.

Spider-Man and his Amazing friends would be nice to see at some point too, once he's in College. While I know Bobby is an X-Men character, I would think at least Firestar could be used.
Vincent D'Onofrio was perfect as Kingpin, so we can only hope he manages a comeback somewhere (anywhere) in the MCU.

I'm personally hoping for some X-Men to appear in other properties like Storm in Black Panther or Iceman with Spider-Man. I have no need to see another Xavier School... they could easily build an X-Men team more organically like they did with Avengers.

It would be fun to see Cyclops and Jean Grey be protègès of Xavier and then add Beast who works with Stark Industries, Iceman who was introduced to Beast by Spider-Man, and Angel who was a rescued experiment or something (I suggest this so he can become Archangel eventually)... the original X-Team would be cool to start with.
 
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It would have seemed totally bonkers a decade ago, but I think a Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends movie is actually a possibility at some point.
 
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I'm interested in theories supporting Mysterio still being alive. The friend I went with and myself disagree on his fate. I believe he could still be alive while my friend thinks he is dead.
 
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I'm interested in theories supporting Mysterio still being alive. The friend I went with and myself disagree on his fate. I believe he could still be alive while my friend thinks he is dead.
I think he's alive mainly because I want him to be. :\

I'd point to his line "They see what I want them to see". He projected himself dying in order to trick Spider-Man and shoot him, but Spider-Man didn't fall for that and then he projects himself as dead so no one comes after him. Spider-Man was practically the only one that saw what Mysterio was doing. For all we know, the European authorities never found a body and never followed up... they were just glad it was over.

You see Mysterio's lackey take the information and then the piece comes out revealing Parker's identity. Not necessarily proof that he's alive, but if he's not then someone that is good at faking that he exists could continue in his place. We may not get more Beck, but could get more Mysterio anyway.
 
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Well it has been the usual MCU shtick to kill off individual Villains, saving the spotlight for the ultimate baddie later. I've seen a few of my favorites die off in week form.

It could be a trick, but the way that scene plays out. Surely Peter would have sensed it when he checked for a pulse, or when he confirmed with EDITH? Unless she's still compromised as well.

Considering his long game, Beck should have prepared for just about any outcome. So i would believe that he's still alive, given his penchant for illusions.
 
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Well here's my thing: Mysterio is the master of illusion...I.E: lies. His whole shtick is slight of hand, acts, cons, deception. Comic book villains in general have a tendency of receiving the fake death routine, but often it's the "Falls off cliff and there's no body" cliche. Mysterio is one who actively and intentionally plans faking his death. He's done it multiple times in the comics. I basically feel like, if you don't think he's still alive, well...you kind of fundamentally misunderstand the character. Faking things is his whole gimmick. Plus now with the popularity of the character, they'd be fools not to have him return at some later date.

Now as for HOW he could be? Well I have a few theories:

Firstly, I even caught this the first time. Something seemed off when he's shot by the drone. It just doesn't seem right as it's then revealed that the Beck that's dying isn't real, he's actually standing next to Peter and about the put a bullet in his brain. But then that Beck still falls over and "dies" as if he was shot with that drone. Was he? Peter then asks EDITH if this is real, to which EDITH replies "All illusions are down," that does not answer if Beck is dead. Also noteworthy is his final line, "...and these days people will believe anything." Now we do know this is a tangible human being. Peter TOUCHES his face. The questions I have are: 1. Is that even Beck? 2. Whether it is or isn't Beck, are they really dead? 3. Is that even the real EDITH?

You can clearly see on whatever is being downloaded into the USB that Mysterio and his crew still have many drones operational. Now we do know, before he acquired EDITH, be still did indeed have drones. Once he gained EDITH, he just acquired a lot more. So there are still plenty of drones out there that EDITH has no control over. Also, it's established that the owner of EDITH has to transfer it to a new owner. It needs permission. Beck did not do this with Peter, Peter just took them. There was no transfer.

I have a few ideas:

1. What if that's a fake EDITH? It's an illusion EDITH, real glasses, but a fake? A decoy! It would explain how Peter was able to use EDITH without Beck granting him permission. It would also mean that, once the drones leave, their leaving was also a facade to fool Peter into believing he had control over them. Beck was beaten and thus faked his death and retreated the drones in order to appear as if he was finished...but he's still very much in control of them. It also would explain why EDITH says illusions are down. They're perhaps not down, EDITH is part of the illusion.

2. If that is a real EDITH, again, it's interesting that Peter does not check for a pulse. It's also noteworthy as to what EDITH stands for, I believe it had a double meaning. While it does apply to Tony, it ALSO can be applied to Beck. Even Dead I am The Hero, the entire point of his ploy, perhaps faking his dead was ALWAYS part of the plan.

3. I still think that Marvel doesn't do things just by coincidence. The REAL Mandarin is coming. After nearly a decade, they did finally explain where Red Skull went. They even brought back that one guy from the first Iron Man. I don't think SHIELD agent Dimitri is merely coincidentally also the real name of the comic book Chameleon. Marvel always sets up things. For a long time, I believe my Chameleon prediction was wrong. Now I truly have to wonder if the Chameleon indeed is in this, what if I was wrong about BEING wrong? Dimitri is only ever in scenes that feature Beck or Beck drones. Dimitri clearly does have a mysterious past. Dimitri is inconspicuously absent for the final act of the film. Beck is shown to utilize a team of allies. Becks team largely resembles a film crew. There's a director, actor, and special effects expert, Beck himself, but there's a screen writer, there's a costume designer, there's an editor and assuredly so on. One thing I never noticed though? A stunt double! After all, Beck in the comics was a failed stuntman and special effects expert.

What if...just what if...Dimitri is also working with Beck? He is a part of the crew! Beck shows severe paranoia over Fury finding him out. As a guy who often has a contingency for a contingency for a contingency, I'd think Beck would want a secret muscle working for him, a mole in the room, when he has to physically deal with Fury. Dimitri is - almost - always in only Fury and Beck meet-up scenes. Now, as stated, he's mysteriously missing for the entire climax. What if Peter is witnessing a dead body, but it's not Beck? We do hear a gunshot go off, but who's to say that real bullet was aiming for Peter and not actually another slight of hand? What if Beck, at some moment in the climax, was actually Dimitri, the Chameleon, a stunt double? And the gun we here go off was not Dimitri as a fake impostor Beck but actually the real Beck, cloaked by drones, shooting Dimitri in the gut...RIGHT where he pretended to be shot by the drone, subsequently betraying and killing him. He then subsequently does a voice-over for Dimitri's final words as the impostor Beck. "...and these days, people will believe anything." This way, he'd have a real body, a real gun as evidence, the real EDITH always in his possession, and the drone army.

This all ALSO sort of lends itself to just HOW he shot the footage for the framing and ousting of Spider-Man. As Spider-Man was beating on Dimitri, the fake Beck, the Chameleon, the real Beck was right there, cloaked, shooting this footage.

Now also, Dimitri's appearance is somewhat relevant to me. He sort of looks like some interpretations of Kraven the Hunter. He seems Russian as well. Well, it's pretty much assumed that Kraven has been set up for the next film, but what really would be his motive for hunting Spider-Man? Kraven, in the comics, is none-other than the half-brother of...you guessed it...the Chameleon. If Kraven were to discover what he BELIEVED to be Spider-Man not killing Beck but rather his half-brother Dimitri, as Spider-Man is framed for the murder, you have motive.

I'm not really sure if any of this is accurate, it's all theory of course, but I think maybe bits and pieces could be...because just no way is Mysterio dead.
 
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Interesting reading guys.

One thing that's bugged me since watching the movie- how did Mysterio fly up and sit beside Peter? Being so close you'd think Peter would have sensed the drones, or that something wasn't right.

In other news, I saw Iron Studios revealed their 1/10 Mysterio from Far From Home and it's awesome! Looks like his dome illuminates.
 
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I thought it was stated at the beginning of the movie that his "Spidey Sense" was essentially on the fritz. Once you take that into consideration, you then understand how Peter could have been fooled by it all.
Several things bothered me too for a while, until I watched it at home and put more thought into that conversation between him and May.
 
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Interesting reading guys.

One thing that's bugged me since watching the movie- how did Mysterio fly up and sit beside Peter? Being so close you'd think Peter would have sensed the drones, or that something wasn't right.

In other news, I saw Iron Studios revealed their 1/10 Mysterio from Far From Home and it's awesome! Looks like his dome illuminates.
I thought of that too which means, basically, Beck was already on the roof and has to be cloaked. I think the sort of director scene where he eventually threatens to kill his crew was meant to also subtly display how he did the inspirational talk. We knew he does have a "real" Mysterio costume, not just the motion capture suit. He must have been on the roof, in that, waiting under a drone cloak. Then another drone projected him in the Mysterio costume flying up to him as the real cloaked Beck sat down next to Peter and they merged. In that direct scene, it shows the projection merge onto his body so we know that technique is being utilized. The costumes he wears, I'd assume, also have some sort of anchor system to keep the hologram in sync with his movement. And as for how Peter didn't sense the drones, don't forget that the film establishes early on that his spider-sense in a bit out of wack at the time. Think Peter temporarily losing his powers due to, well, perhaps stress or doubt or whatever it was in Spider-Man 2. It's a bit of plot convenience in both Spidey 2 and Far From Home, granted, but it doesn't really bother me.
 
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Yeah I guess his Spidey Sense being subdued could explain a lot of how Mysterio pulled it off.

I have been asked by coworkers about Mysterio and saw some of the things that have been touched on here, and I just tell them Mysterio truly is the master of illusion. :grin:
 
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I'm honestly surprised that i haven't been asked how he and Rey Mysterio are related. lol
 
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I'm honestly surprised that i haven't been asked how he and Rey Mysterio are related. lol
I used to get that all the time. My email and screen name have be this for like two decades, when I would give them...I'd almost always get "Oh, a wrestling fan, huh?" =P
 
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Since my name is the same as an Iconic MCU character. Ever since 08 when he became popular to the masses, I get comments now every time I have to give my last name. If I'm related to him. Normally I just chalk it up to conversational thing, but some people asking do make me wonder if they understand that he's not real. :hmm:
 
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Hey guys check out this standee I got from my local theater tonight. It's huge so I'm not sure if I'll keep it or just keep Spidey, Mysterio, and the bottom piece.



 
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