Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion Thread

[Masterfett]

Sounds about right and it will help build hype for the next thing, it will also be nice to see a trailer to get sense of what the movie is going to be about considering where his character left of in End Game.

With everything going on in with separate themes in shows etc. it's tough to get feel for what the overall arching MCU is about like it was for the Infinity Saga. I'm still wondering why they are going ahead with Secret Invasion, which will likely have some serious ramifications, as it would no doubt affect these other characters. Then you've got two separate multiverse aspects with both No Way Home and Loki so how do you tackle that without confusing the average moviegoer? Or how does it affect the MCU in general?

I still feel they should keep X-Men in a separate universe so that whatever happens to them doesn't have to affect Avengers characters and vise versa. It will be interesting to see how they handle it though.

I'm not feeling all that interested in Moonknight, but I'll give it a watch when it ends so I can marathon it and then move right into Kenobi!

 

[keknivek]

2 Episodes in and I'm feeling OK about Moon Knight. It's interesting, but something about it doesn't feel like the MCU. I can't put my finger on it. May be my favorite thing I've seen Oscar Isaac in though.

 

[Neal]

 

[VideoViper]

Well I had been joking Marvel was going to do a RomCom at some point.... A little disappointed that its not soley based on villians.

As far as L&T looks like what I was expecting.

 

[keknivek]

That teaser looks a lot like I expected really. Waititi is going to explore Thor after Thor. I loved all one and a half minutes of that trailer. I wonder how much we'll get of the Guardians and 'female Thor' and Zeus...

Boardroom Valkyrie was an odd aside.

 

[keknivek]

Moon Knight... hmmmm...

First couple episodes seemed like some sort of schizophrenic James Bond meets Batman. This most recent one was like a 12 Monkeys mashup of Indiana Jones.
Kinda like this:

 

[GNT]

I wasn't a huge fan of the last Thor movie so I'll hold my reservations till I see this one.

 

[keknivek]

I wasn't a huge fan of the last Thor movie so I'll hold my reservations till I see this one.

You didn't like Ragnarok? I'm interested to know what you didn't like? I think it was an amazing change for the character and Korg is awesome.

 

[GNT]

You didn't like Ragnarok? I'm interested to know what you didn't like? I think it was an amazing change for the character and Korg is awesome.

Not really, no. Thor felt a bit different in Ragnarok when compared to his past solo/Avengers films. He just felt like a "joke" with all the comedy instead of serious like how he was before so much so that to me he felt like a completely different Thor all of a sudden.

 

[keknivek]

Not really, no. Thor felt a bit different in Ragnarok when compared to his past solo/Avengers films. He just felt like a "joke" with all the comedy instead of serious like how he was before so much so that to me he felt like a completely different Thor all of a sudden.

I agree that he was different, but I saw it as an evolution and not a 'change'. Thor went from being "Warrior THOR" in Thor and Thor 2 and not being terribly relatable. He became a better person after being humbled a bit. After being broken down with his father's death, Hela destroying Mjolnir, losing his hair on Saakar, and just being lost when Loki is killed, Asgard is destroyed, he's not sure who he is. In Ragnarok they do lean into comedy, but he becomes so much more relatable when he's not just a fighter.

I have to say that the Fat Thor thing was a bit overdone, but for a comic book character he has had perhaps the best arc of any.

 

[keknivek]

Can't go to Strange this weekend, but scheduled to see it Tuesday... I won't post any spoilers... but can't wait to discuss.

 

[Lobotscomb]

Strange was a HUGE payoff stemming from a lot of loose ends. Lots of surprises, a fantastic story that has you emotionally invested, and trademark Sam Rami shots and additives. All around winner, and the best of this new phase IMHO.

 

[Lobotscomb]

Not really, no. Thor felt a bit different in Ragnarok when compared to his past solo/Avengers films. He just felt like a "joke" with all the comedy instead of serious like how he was before so much so that to me he felt like a completely different Thor all of a sudden.

They turned him into a buddy film guy with Hulk. I like Thor as Thor. He had always had an acquired taste comic, and as a character he was always a little awkward. Disney dressed him up like they do so many other acquisitions.

 

[keknivek]

No Spoilers **********************
Watched Dr. Strange and I gotta say there is a lot to unpack. I'll wait to go into details, but I enjoyed the movie. There are some surprises... but not as many as rumors that were going around.

I may be wrong, but I think this may be the first movie I've ever seen that totally required that you watched a TV show prior to really understand major parts of it. The MCU forces you to do a lot of homework normally but there were definitely parts of this that you would not understand without Disney+.

 

[VideoViper]

You didn’t have to watch Wanda vision but it did help. I’ve seen it family didn’t so it does cover the basics for those who didn’t see WV

 

[Masterfett]

I'm curious what people's thoughts/stance on this having Horror vibes and how it may have affected the younger audience, because I've heard a few reports of younger kids being "traumatized" by Wanda's turn and ending the existence of some characters. My question is wouldn't people been aware of these elements from the trailers or should Marvel have warned audiences ahead of time about those aspect and potentially scarring younger kids? I'll admit it's an anomaly in the Marvel movies where most of them have all been relative very lighthearted kid friendly fare compared to a much darker outing.

Personally I loved that horror aspect and wouldn't have minded it being a tad more extreme but I can see where some might be upset that it isn't necessarily for all kids like 99% of all previous movies were. I do think Wanda Vision was essential viewing if one wanted to truly understand her turn because the movies never alluded to the loss of her kids so I can see that as a bit of a gap in her journey to now. There was a lot that was touched on in that series that explains in more detail the events that lead her down this path, because while losing the love of you life is tough it alone shouldn't be the tipping point in the actions she took or going homicidal. So it would suggest there are other factors affecting her mental state and that is where the show comes in.

Also, does anyone know who Charlize Theron's character is? I'm not familiar with the pantheon of Dr. Strange characters.

 

[greedo737]

Clea. Dormammu’s niece. She becomes sorcerer supreme in the comics at one point too.

 

[Neal]

Also, does anyone know who Charlize Theron's character is? I'm not familiar with the pantheon of Dr. Strange characters.

Clea (Earth-616)​

 

[Lobotscomb]

Clea. Dormammu’s niece. She becomes sorcerer supreme in the comics at one point too.

She is Dr Strange's love interest, eventually his wife, and currently his widow. She was introduced in one of my favorite story Arcs, totally worth going back and reading! Her first appearance? Strange Tales # 126

 

[Masterfett]

Hm, so I wonder if she'll become a reoccurring character then? Which makes me wonder why they would go with such a high profile actor for a rather obscure character, certainly the budget for these movies will reach a crescendo and become less profitable over time paying for well known celebrities. I'm still amazed they were able to make Infinity War and especially Endgame with so many stars.

 

[keknivek]

I've been formulating my position on this movie and without giving anything away, this is where I stand:

I feel that you absolutely had to see WandaVision in order to not spend some time confused while the movie is going on... yet they actually undo some of Wanda's character that was built up in WandaVision in this movie. I would have rather seen them go a different route (which I'll save for now but would love to discuss later) They went for 'camp' and special effects more than trying to make total sense of the plot and because it is a bit of a horror movie, it works - but not on all levels. I say 'a bit of a horror movie' because it was neither a horror, nor a superhero movie really... and there are limited connections to the MCU as a whole.

I know that sounds like I didn't like the movie, but since I saw WandaVision, and I have read the comics (or at least know about the majority of the plotlines and players in the comics) I liked seeing things unfold onscreen. I'm not a HUGE Dr. Strange fan in general. Loved what they did with him in the first Dr. Strange movie. Loved him in Infinity War. His last 3 outings... End Game, Spider-Man No Way Home and This... I felt the character was off. End Game gave him little to nothing to do. Spider-Man NWH he was a means to an end. Not so bad in MoM, but I think it's more an issue of story than actor.

I agree with others that have said some of the lack of repeat viewing probably has to do with the horror elements, but this movie will make over $800 million.. so I imagine it's popular enough with the MCU crowd.

Lots of character discussion to be had, but I'll wait a bit longer to break out the spoilers.

 

[mousedroid]

Hm, so I wonder if she'll become a reoccurring character then? Which makes me wonder why they would go with such a high profile actor for a rather obscure character, certainly the budget for these movies will reach a crescendo and become less profitable over time paying for well known celebrities. I'm still amazed they were able to make Infinity War and especially Endgame with so many stars.

I'm wondering how much of that was signing relative unknowns to multi-picture contracts when all this started.

Robert Downey Jr. was a star at that point, but not a huge star, and Scarlet Johansen was arguably on his level as well.

On the other hand, Chris Evans, Jeremy Renner, Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, et. al. were known actors, but they weren't really household names prior to their first outings in Marvel movies. Not like RDJ, SJ, or Charlize Theron.

 

[GNT]

Hm, so I wonder if she'll become a reoccurring character then? Which makes me wonder why they would go with such a high profile actor for a rather obscure character, certainly the budget for these movies will reach a crescendo and become less profitable over time paying for well known celebrities. I'm still amazed they were able to make Infinity War and especially Endgame with so many stars.

Thankgod for multi film deals that locked them in.

Im sure we’ll see more of Clea in future films, Marvel wouldn’t have brought her in otherwise

 

[sharky]

I'm curious what people's thoughts/stance on this having Horror vibes and how it may have affected the younger audience, because I've heard a few reports of younger kids being "traumatized" by Wanda's turn and ending the existence of some characters. My question is wouldn't people been aware of these elements from the trailers or should Marvel have warned audiences ahead of time about those aspect and potentially scarring younger kids? I'll admit it's an anomaly in the Marvel movies where most of them have all been relative very lighthearted kid friendly fare compared to a much darker outing.

It is rated PG-13. If parents want to take their young kid to it, that's on them. I remember the same thing happened when Jurassic Park was released. I recall one kid crying and pleading to his parents "I want to go home, I want to go home."

Personally, I think most of the MCU movies lean towards the mature side of the spectrum. Starting with Iron Man.

 

[Masterfett]

On the other hand, Chris Evans, Jeremy Renner, Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, et. al. were known actors, but they weren't really household names prior to their first outings in Marvel movies. Not like RDJ, SJ, or Charlize Theron.

True but as time goes on it becomes much more costly to keep them on especially when the original contracts ended. And even with contracts there's a certain amount of backend deals upping their paycheck that otherwise would go towards studio profits. So hiring well knowns like Theron can get costly much sooner than it would for someone like a rather unknown at the time, the two Chris' etc.

That said I do see it as a draw for the average movie goer who has no clue who Clea is, at least for Theron fans. And is probably a better move than casting someone no one knows but it's not like they're making a Clea movie where whoever would be headlining she'll likely be co-starring alongside Strange in the third outing.

One part of the movie when Wanda faces of against the Illuminati had a missed opportunity IMO, the part where Blackbolt tries to use his voice and it backfires which seems a bit odd to me but whatever. One would think if he's that powerful it would have gone straight through his mouth and hit Wanda. My thought was that it would have been cooler if if it shot out the back of his head and killed Carter standing behind him as it would seem to make more sense the way blasts work. I also thought it was neat that they brought back Anson Mount to portray him considering that show was kind of a flop.

 

[keknivek]

True but as time goes on it becomes much more costly to keep them on especially when the original contracts ended. And even with contracts there's a certain amount of backend deals upping their paycheck that otherwise would go towards studio profits. So hiring well knowns like Theron can get costly much sooner than it would for someone like a rather unknown at the time, the two Chris' etc.

That said I do see it as a draw for the average movie goer who has no clue who Clea is, at least for Theron fans. And is probably a better move than casting someone no one knows but it's not like they're making a Clea movie where whoever would be headlining she'll likely be co-starring alongside Strange in the third outing.

Can we discuss spoilers now?

I really want everyone's take on Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness (stupid title) because I want to like it, but am very conflicted with the MCU right now. Avengers: Endgame and everything before it was masterful. I mean... a few hiccups, but so well done.

Since we were snapped in 2020, Black Widow was good (but unfortunately way too late chronologically and in reality). Shang-Chi was good, but not really following much of the comics and not really connected to much of anything. Eternals... I didn't dislike it, but again far removed from pretty much anything in the MCU.

Then we got No Way Home which was a super fun multiverse story that brought back some fan favorites and really seemed to open up the story to so much!!!

Falcon & Winter Soldier and Hawkeye introduced some new characters and fleshed out some old ones. WandaVision and Loki played with reality and multiverse and had fun with it.

MoM really stomps on a lot of that fun. Again... I didn't dislike it, but it took the multiverse idea and twisted it. It showed the evil intent that could come from powerful multiversal beings. It teased a LOT but didn't give us any satisfaction. It started with a huge question mark and ended on a huge question mark. It almost felt like 3 different stories that were forced to coexist instead of one Multiverse story. I guess that is the madness part?

 

[Masterfett]

I think the problem is that we've been introduced to a few very different takes on the Multiverse, NWH seems very different from MoM and both are different from Loki's take. Not to mention what we'll be introduced to in Quantumania, how that is approached and relates to multiverse/time travel, which I feel is starting to get too complicated for the average moviegoer or even those not as steeped in Marvel lore. Especially with the core team gone and the MCU being lead mostly by unknowns to obscure characters.

Which is likely a major reason they acquired Fox thus allowing for them to reintroduce F4, X-Men etc. It provides an influx of popular characters to center on for the next ten years if the majority of people show no interest in the next phases with those new/unknown characters.

 

[VideoViper]

No way home was good fun, but a little bit of me thinks that it was an over elaborated way to get out of the end scene from the last movie.

I was really expecting more of a connection with No way home, but MoM was originally scheduled first so it could have been interesting to debate if evil Strange was the one in No way Home.

I am not looking forward to multiverse stuff as that is always how DC gets itself in trouble. ( insert rant about how Flash is actually a really terrible person leaving millions to die while he jumps into a time stream that’s almost the same.)

There was a lot I liked about multi madness
Just enough horror but not overly done so the kids can’t watch it.
Parts were a commercial for upcoming Marvel projects.
I liked that they brought back the inhuman actor so it kind of them saying we acknowledge the TV shows, even if we don’t want to.
There was enough background info if someone didn’t watch the shows, yes you get more if you did, but not everyone wants to read the book before seeing the movie.

I was expecting a movie version of what was seen in what if, & glad they didn’t retread that.

Rumor has it they almost killed off Mordo I think saving his story for part 3 plays much better.

Now I tried to be spoiler free going into it so I was pleasantly surprised by the real villain as part of me didn’t think marvel would go there without giving her a way out that would have undercut the movie. But ya we will be seeing much more of Wanda.

 

[keknivek]

I think the problem is that we've been introduced to a few very different takes on the Multiverse, NWH seems very different from MoM and both are different from Loki's take. Not to mention what we'll be introduced to in Quantumania, how that is approached and relates to multiverse/time travel, which I feel is starting to get too complicated for the average moviegoer or even those not as steeped in Marvel lore. Especially with the core team gone and the MCU being lead mostly by unknowns to obscure characters.

Which is likely a major reason they acquired Fox thus allowing for them to reintroduce F4, X-Men etc. It provides an influx of popular characters to center on for the next ten years if the majority of people show no interest in the next phases with those new/unknown characters.

The time travel in Endgame was troubling for a multitude of reasons. What's stopping them from using that technology to bring back any character from the past - Tony, Natasha, Red Skull, Uncle Ben... Are we assuming Quantumania will address that Quantum travel idea and we'll get no more time travel... but will continue to get some multiverse stuff? I mean, Star Portal girl is in Kamar Taj now.

The idea that there was a TVA in Loki clipping any divergent timeline actually cleans some minor things up, but that's not a thing anymore right? Kang is coming and I guess we'll have to wait to see what that means for the MCU.

I look at the group that was: Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Thor. The ones that were added: Black Panther, Ant-Man, Wasp, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, War Machine, Wanda, Vision, Spider-Man, Falcon, and Bucky along with the GotG and a number of others and I still see a decent team. Just tallying, but I'd count Iron Man, Cap, Black Widow, and Wanda(not dead) out for sure... at least temporarily. I'd assume Doctor Strange is also out temporarily along with Vision, likely Thor and possibly Hawkeye(at least the original version).

Ironheart, She-Hulk, Yelena Belova, Hawkeye(Kate Bishop), Thor(Jane Foster) << is this the new Avengers? Throw in Shuri Panther and any one or all of the Marvels and you have a quite a girl power squad. I'm not against this either as long as the story is good. Give us Storm, Angela, Lionheart, Psylock, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Spider-Woman, X-23, Squirrel Girl.... whatever.

I also want more Iron Man, Cap, Thor, and Hulk though so hopefully Secret Wars can happen and give us the whole Marvel catalog.

 

[mousedroid]

Ironheart, She-Hulk, Yelena Belova, Hawkeye(Kate Bishop), Thor(Jane Foster) << is this the new Avengers? Throw in Shuri Panther and any one or all of the Marvels and you have a quite a girl power squad. I'm not against this either as long as the story is good. Give us Storm, Angela, Lionheart, Psylock, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Spider-Woman, X-23, Squirrel Girl.... whatever.

Don't forget Captain Marvel (unless something in MoM rules her out. I haven't see it yet.

 

[keknivek]

Don't forget Captain Marvel (unless something in MoM rules her out. I haven't see it yet.

You probably missed that I mentioned 'any one of the Marvels' but I don't want to spoil Carol Danvers big scene in MoM <<<TOTALLY KIDDING!!!! I promise.

 

[keknivek]

I also just saw Morbius - just going to throw that into the mix here because Why Not? I was going to wait, but whatevs.

Was it a bit basic? yep. It was an origin movie. Do I want to see more of Morbius? yep. Hating on something is more fashionable these days than appreciating what we got. I liked Morbius and do not understand the hate it has received.

I wasn't challenged to go do 20 movies and 10 years of homework and we have a new anti-hero to add to the mix. I'm also probably in the minority that doesn't want Garfield back but that's probably just because those 2 movies weren't all that amazing to me. I still want my sinister six movie!!!!!! Morbius and Venom with Kraven, Vulture, Doc Oc, and Scorpion. That's my team!

 

[GNT]

Ironheart, She-Hulk, Yelena Belova, Hawkeye(Kate Bishop), Thor(Jane Foster) << is this the new Avengers? Throw in Shuri Panther and any one or all of the Marvels and you have a quite a girl power squad.

The Avengers team can be a rotating roster of heroes, when an actor drops out a new hero can step in. An all female team? Sure why not. Now with the multiverse in play it opens the door for another actor to be Tony Stark/Iron man for example so the possibilities are endless going forward.

 

[Masterfett]

Sure a rotating team as it's always been in the comics, but lest not deny there were more popular character than others which lead to them always coming back when sales declined. For me personally that roster isn't that interesting and consists characters I have no connection to not to mention I'm not a fan of derivative characters to begin with. Thus I feel it would have been better to have infused some of these new characters in sooner to get some appeal going. I'm sure they also have their fans who will go see them and that's fine not everything is going to be for "me" but are they as large of a base as the fans for the original team? We'll find out.

I'm fine with Captain Marvel or other new original characters coming like America Chavez etc. I'm just not into copies of characters like Iron Man, Hawkeye, Hulk and Thor.

 

[mousedroid]

You probably missed that I mentioned 'any one of the Marvels' but I don't want to spoil Carol Danvers big scene in MoM <<<TOTALLY KIDDING!!!! I promise.

Ah, OK. I did miss that. Or at least I missed your meaning. I took it to be more of a generic "Marvel characters" than one of the Captains Marvel, or Ms. Marvel.

 

[Neal]

 

[Masterfett]

Cool trailer! Seems like another dark road for Thor though which feels odd in a movie that's supposed to be about finding himself and possible healing after such great losses he suffered in Ragnarok and End Game.

Looks like it will be good adventure wrapped up in both serious and comedy that Taika does so well, but it legit worries me about some characters with a God killer as the villain.

 

[keknivek]

I see Marvel going a long way to establish a LONG list of things that still need to be discussed.
* Asgard was our introduction to "Gods" essentially in the MCU. The 9 Realms are not really well defined still I don't think.
* Avengers introduced us to extraterrestrial beings.
* Guardians of the Galaxy opened up the Cosmic MCU.
* Doctor Strange gave us 'the Dark Dimension" which I guess means something other than Multiverse.
* Black Panther gave us the Ancestral Plane... which I'm assuming is the same or similar to the Field of Reeds from Moon Knight.
* Endgame introduced us to Quantum Time Travel and with that we find that that Back to the Future was crap.

The Multiverse, mixed with different dimensions, and all of outer space, and Chaos Magic, and Planes of existence, and the Quantum Realm, and Time Travel, and GODS... really makes for a very complex set of rules.

I felt like Multiverse of Madness was the way to clarify but it did NOT do that. Thor: Love and Thunder appears to be muddying the waters even more with a whole Pantheon of Gods that are all aware of one another but perhaps have been abandoned or just pulled back from humanity like the Eternals. It's interesting to think there is an actual representation of the ancient Gods that exists in this universe. So the Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, Vikings, Wakandans weren't all just full of superstition... there actually was/is a Zeus, Isis, Thor, etc.

Makes me pine for the days of a simple genius in an Iron Suit shooting missiles at terrorists.

 

[Masterfett]

I heard yesterday that a Thunderbolds movies is coming and they have a director attached, will be interesting how they will handle the Ross situation whether they recast or just not use Ross. Which then means they need to create someone for that position, and they can't even use Norma either. Even though I was never into this team I'm curious as it seems interesting to see a bad guy themed team for change.

Someone suggested brining back Justin Hammer for the Ross role which I think would great, as for the roster as I've said not familiar but it seems they're grooming U.S. Agent for it as well as Yelena, Nemo and few other newer characters. I don't expect to see Red Hulk though. Who else could they bring in or introduce that would be on the team?

 

[Cobalt60]

I'm not very familiar with thunderbolts.. wiki says their original leader was Baron Zemo.
there was also a version of the team that was assembled/led by Winter Soldier.

I searched the wiki page for the word "Ross" and he doesn't actually come up too often.
at first glance, looks like it would be pretty easy to do a version of the team that doesn't involve his MCU character at all.

Thunderbolts (comics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org