Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion Thread

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Yeah..... this episode made an effort but fell short. I honestly thought the end credits was funny but the rest of the episode was one of the worst of the entire MCU D+verse.
 
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Here's my take thus far...

Wandavision: FAN-FREAKING-TASTIC. Admittedly the Quicksilver reveal was underwhelming...but I LOVED everything else. I adored the Twilight Zone feel to it.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier: Pretty decent. Little too preachy at moments for my taste, but over-all fairly enjoyable with some warts. I thought John Walker - hate to love him or love to hate him - was the stand-out preformance with Zemo a close second; just wish he had more to do but he'll certainly be back. Ironic the two main characters got outshined, but I will also say the opening action scene of EP1 was excellent!

Loki: EXCELLENT!!!

Hawkeye: I'm indifferent here. I enjoyed it for the most part, but it didn't exactly blow me away either. I think I'm in a minority here when I say I found Echo to be extremely bland and don't have much excitement for her own show. Swordsman was wasted and turned into a joke, highly disappointing. Then lastly, inevitably, Kingpin. I'll say, in his first scenes he's excellent and feels straight ripped from DD. But as it went on, something felt a little off to me. Some things felt a bit too exaggerated to me. I get he wears a kevlar suit, but for one...it's hard for me to buy a little girl beating him in a fight and secondly it's hard to me to buy him surviving that explosion. And while I highly, highly doubt he's dead...I will say, if I am wrong and indeed he is dead...I will be LIVID! You don't re-introduce him and DD only to kill off Fisk in his first debut back.

What If: HIGHLY enjoyable stuff...but also not really all that relevent as well...as the title says, it's all a what if. But really, really good writing on this one.

Moon Knight: I rather enjoyed it, though I have nitpicks. I wasn't wild about the finale "Godzilla" fight, but mostly I had a lot of fun with it and it's just nice to see Moonknight getting some love at all. Plus Oscar is good in everything he does, even if the project he does is crap - cough TLJ cough.

Ms. Marvel: Watched the first two episode and just had no interest to continue. They changed the role so much it's barely the same and it just feels like a teeniebopper CW show riddled with cringe ...on top of it's about an annoying girl who worships what has to be among my least favorite MCU and even just comic heroes: Captain Marvel. I don't even intend on finishing this one.

She-Hulk: Really enjoyed the first episode, had potential...but now, episode two was boring and episode three was just...well I already said it. It's become really underwhelming. It's not bad, just...lost potential. But it's not over yet, so here's hoping it improves.
 
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Wandavision: I'll agree. Quirky. Original. Nothing to complain about here at all.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier: I think it handled the material well even with the 'preachier' stuff. I'm glad we got this series to flesh out those 2 main characters and we got a really well done Zemo and US Agent. 😒Sharon Carter is definitely a skrull.

Loki: EXCELLENT!!! <wish the movies would have followed this lead.

Hawkeye: Kate Bishop will pay off. Yelena Belova too. Echo hopefully. I'm easy to please I guess because I was highly entertained and I like that Clint got a decent send off (will we see him again?). Swordsman could come back in Thunderbolts?

What If: I hope they don't try too hard to incorporate cartoons into the MCU but this one was a fun show.

Moon Knight: The best Oscar Isaac I've seen. I want this character to interact with other heroes SOOO Much.

Ms. Marvel: This is where I disagree with you. The show did cultural the correct way, not as a sideshow but as a normal way of life. I understand critiques of this being more "high school musical" than MCU but I'm betting on Ms. Marvel being a really cool character once they give her some confidence in her abilities. Green Lantern-esque. AND WHERE IS MY GREEN LANTERN MOVIE???????

She-Hulk: I think they had a good premise and style. I'm not going to condemn the whole show based on this smug, off-putting episode. Everything needs to get better though. The CG, the story, the acting. This episode was bad.
 
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I like she hulk and take it as a slightly more absurd show than the rest. I didn’t really care why Wong thought it was smart to release Abomination, as sorcerer supreme he operates on his own level of ethics. I was bothered by how pathetic the wrecking crew was, I mean with their asgardian power tools they should been able to at least stun Jennifer. Really hoping their boss turns out to be The Leader.
 
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I think this show is at some level simply a vessel to introduce other characters that will eventually be teaming up later on in the MCU, some of it is comical and alright but can come off very cheesy at times too. I thought this might be a good way to get some serious tones of the legal ramifications behind hero biz and what happens to the bad guys who are caught, so this episode was at least good in that aspect of her actually doing the lawyer thing but it never really showed her do any investigating what she needed just pops up out of the blue. This definitely isn't Matlock. lol

Anyway, back to my original thought that this show might also be a vehicle for laying the ground work for various other future teams like Thunderbolts and Young Avengers, hence the whole Hulk backstory and the possible introduction to Hulkling since every other character has already been introduced in some fashion. If this is only 6 episodes we're already halfway through so I'm wondering how much more they will go into or how it impacts her in particular. Like was mentioned it doesn't have a sense of what the show is trying to be yet and it would be a bummer if it was more about introductions for other characters.

  Spoiler:  
I haven't the slightest idea who Nickie the Stallion or whoever it was is...and I have no urge to know.
Agreed
  Spoiler:  
Was kind of neat seeing the Wrecking Crew, but...I don't know. I felt they were kind of underwhelming. Am curious who thier "boss" is though.
Yes this was a neat moment, for a moment, and then the fact they're basically a nobody kick in. I guess it was simply supposed to be a nod.
 
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Ms. Marvel: Watched the first two episode and just had no interest to continue. They changed the role so much it's barely the same and it just feels like a teeniebopper CW show riddled with cringe ...on top of it's about an annoying girl who worships what has to be among my least favorite MCU and even just comic heroes: Captain Marvel. I don't even intend on finishing this one.
I think you gave up too soon, it did feel like a slow start and truthfully about average show but the family dynamic more than makes up for its shortfalls. IMO
I get that it can be a bit eyerolly at times with some of the worshiping but from her point of view Captain Marvel is our/my Captain America, so I can cut her some slack. The teeniebopper stuff you just can't get past due to the target audience thus you have to choose to endure the cringe. I'll admit it may not be for some who don't really care for the character or have the connection, I have no knowledge of Kamala's Ms. Marvel so I went in blind without expectations and found it to be alright for an introduction to the character we'll see again in the Marvels. Can't say I'd ever watch the show again though, though TBH I can't really say that about any of the D+ shows just yet aside from possibly WandaVision.
 
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Wandavision: I'll agree. Quirky. Original. Nothing to complain about here at all.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier: I think it handled the material well even with the 'preachier' stuff. I'm glad we got this series to flesh out those 2 main characters and we got a really well done Zemo and US Agent. 😒Sharon Carter is definitely a skrull.

Loki: EXCELLENT!!! <wish the movies would have followed this lead.

Hawkeye: Kate Bishop will pay off. Yelena Belova too. Echo hopefully. I'm easy to please I guess because I was highly entertained and I like that Clint got a decent send off (will we see him again?). Swordsman could come back in Thunderbolts?

What If: I hope they don't try too hard to incorporate cartoons into the MCU but this one was a fun show.

Moon Knight: The best Oscar Isaac I've seen. I want this character to interact with other heroes SOOO Much.

Ms. Marvel: This is where I disagree with you. The show did cultural the correct way, not as a sideshow but as a normal way of life. I understand critiques of this being more "high school musical" than MCU but I'm betting on Ms. Marvel being a really cool character once they give her some confidence in her abilities. Green Lantern-esque. AND WHERE IS MY GREEN LANTERN MOVIE???????

She-Hulk: I think they had a good premise and style. I'm not going to condemn the whole show based on this smug, off-putting episode. Everything needs to get better though. The CG, the story, the acting. This episode was bad.
I agree with most every word save the Ms. Marvel stuff, but truth is I can't say I DISAGREE per se...as I haven't really seen most of it. So it's not really fair. It's just...I just don't really have interest. I've always been a more old school fan anyway, so when they do more modern roles...I'm just not very interested or invested usually - there are exceptions.

I thought the PTSD stuff with Bucky Barnes was very respectful and well-done for Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Added some character depth to the show, as did Sam's doubt in himself to be worthy of Cap and Walkers pressure to be Cap that eventually drove him insane.

It's not that I disliked Hawkeye, I didn't and I ESPECIALLY loved the giant arrow scene, I just don't think it's up there with some of the others. It was a lot of fun though. Here's hoping for more Swordsman. And ideally in the action. We really didn't truly get that in the show. He was a red herring that turn out to be less Swordsman and almost more a spoof of Swordsman. I'm hoping they kinda take that back and mend him into a legit threat but still a cheeseball suave, aristocratic, cocky Musketeeresque man out for himself - neither villain nor hero, plays both sides for his own benefit. I was really hoping we'd get a classic Swordsman in ML's cause of this show.

Yes, Moon Knight is a must add to the MCU proper.
I like she hulk and take it as a slightly more absurd show than the rest. I didn’t really care why Wong thought it was smart to release Abomination, as sorcerer supreme he operates on his own level of ethics. I was bothered by how pathetic the wrecking crew was, I mean with their asgardian power tools they should been able to at least stun Jennifer. Really hoping their boss turns out to be The Leader.

Yeah, the Wrecking Crew came off more as pathetic, like Bebop and Rocksteady styled boob goons (which I assume was intention because comedy), than threatening. And sure, was it funny? Kinda, but it's not exactly what I wanted. I'm also hoping for Leader, it would finally explain what came of Sterns since that's so open ended and never been addressed.
 
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I agree with most every word save the Ms. Marvel stuff, but truth is I can't say I DISAGREE per se...as I haven't really seen most of it. So it's not really fair. It's just...I just don't really have interest. I've always been a more old school fan anyway, so when they do more modern roles...I'm just not very interested or invested usually - there are exceptions.

I thought the PTSD stuff with Bucky Barnes was very respectful and well-done for Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Added some character depth to the show, as did Sam's doubt in himself to be worthy of Cap and Walkers pressure to be Cap that eventually drove him insane.

It's not that I disliked Hawkeye, I didn't and I ESPECIALLY loved the giant arrow scene, I just don't think it's up there with some of the others. It was a lot of fun though. Here's hoping for more Swordsman. And ideally in the action. We really didn't truly get that in the show. He was a red herring that turn out to be less Swordsman and almost more a spoof of Swordsman. I'm hoping they kinda take that back and mend him into a legit threat but still a cheeseball suave, aristocratic, cocky Musketeeresque man out for himself - neither villain nor hero, plays both sides for his own benefit. I was really hoping we'd get a classic Swordsman in ML's cause of this show.

Yes, Moon Knight is a must add to the MCU proper.


Yeah, the Wrecking Crew came off more as pathetic, like Bebop and Rocksteady styled boob goons (which I assume was intention because comedy), than threatening. And sure, was it funny? Kinda, but it's not exactly what I wanted. I'm also hoping for Leader, it would finally explain what came of Sterns since that's so open ended and never been addressed.
He got powers and…invested in San Francisco real estate market
 
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  Spoiler:  
I'm quickly losing interest in the show. This just didn't really do it for me either. I didn't think it was bad, just left feeling "Meh...alright."

Abomination being in Shang Chi always felt off to me, but now that they "explain" it...it's even more odd to me. It still doesn't really make much sense. So Wong wanted someone who'd be an actual competitor...ah. Why didn't he go with someone who's NOT in jail? There's plenty of supers around. How'd he know Emil reformed? And we still don't know why Wong was even in the tournament to begin with. Just...huh?

I don't know, I'd sum this and the last episodes up as too much lawyer, not enough superhero. I think Netflix DD balanced it out much better, but it may also have worked better because DD's courtroom stuff was was pure drama and played into the larger plot. This is mostly a comedy and essentually subplot/one-shot comic stuff. Will these two court cases in the show really have any relevance over-all? Have to wait and see, but not sure. It's just not working as well as DD's court case scenes.

I haven't the slightest idea who Nickie the Stallion or whoever it was is...and I have no urge to know.

Was kind of neat seeing the Wrecking Crew, but...I don't know. I felt they were kind of underwhelming. Am curious who thier "boss" is though.

And again, the CGI is def. uncanny valley levels of not great, but that I can look past so long as the story is good. I just don't think the last two have been anything to write home about. The first one def. got me excited for the future, but it hasn't lived up to that first episode IMO. Def. not on par with Loki and Wandavision...or even MoonKnight IMO.

I hope it really picks up. I don't hate it by any means, I'll take it over Ms. Marvel any day, but I'm not exactly overly impressed with the writing/story on the last two episodes.
Megan Thee Stallion is a rapper who was featured on the hit single W.A.P. By Cardi B (it’s a ridiculous but catchy song).
 
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Megan Thee Stallion is a rapper who was featured on the hit single W.A.P. By Cardi B (it’s a ridiculous but catchy song).
Not sure what is more embarrassing... the song or the fact that you felt the need to share it with us.

Not trying to troll, just distancing myself from the fact that I did know of her and the song.
 
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Megan Thee Stallion is a rapper who was featured on the hit single W.A.P. By Cardi B (it’s a ridiculous but catchy song).

I think I'd rather gouge my eardrums out with a rusty spoon...
Not my style of music. I'd never even HEARD of her and if I'm being honest, I wish it would have stayed that way. It's not even that I'm "old," it's simply that I've never personally had an appreciation for that style of music or really most mainstream "radio" music. So when she was on Hulk, I wasn't really able to appreciate the gag as much as others because I just had no clue who she even was. Granted I can surmise she's some sort of famous rapper or something...but couldn't enjoy as much as, say, fans of hers.
 
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I'll say, I think the latest Shehulk was notably better. It'll never be my favorite of these shows, that's for sure, but I enjoyed this episode and found this one legitimately funny at times. Shehulk actually did something. Now sure, you might argue she has already...but has she really? I mean, she trained with Hulk and that was fun but not exactly thrilling stuff. It's training! Next was Titania...which saying they "fought" would be a gross exaggeration. Then lastly, the Wrecking Crew "fight" was miserably underwhelming. Finally she DID something ACTION oriented.
 
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Watched the Secret Invasion trailer and have to say I wasn't all that excited over it, then again I never understood the point of it with the Skrulls being good guys in MCU, and feel more like it's a "make up" test because they couldn't do it the right way before now. I just hope it's better than Falcon & Winter Soldier since it seems to be another spy thriller type drama.
It was neat to see the real Fury and Hill together again though, just not sure it's enough to interest if they story intrigue isn't there.
 
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The trailer for Secret Invasion doesn't really give much away. I assumed the show was going to be a spy thriller type, so I'm not sure what you were expecting. It's surely going to be about Skrulls wanting our world, but I think we'll see some Skrull vs Skrull stuff.

The timeline for that show will be interesting. I think anyone that wants a full scale Secret Invasion like in the comics is going to be disappointed. Not sure we'll see a lot of our heroes are/were Skrulls. Maybe a few side characters like Sharon Carter, Zemo?, maybe Everett Ross, or Val?

I'm assuming we'll get this show after Quantumania comes out in February .... it's the next show on D+ after She-Hulk I think. Unfortunately everything since Shang Chi has been so disjointed it's hard to say if anything will connect to anything at this point.
 
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Yeah the trailer is pretty skimpy. I never understood the appeal of the Secret Invasion comic. So the Skrulls are impersonating superheroes...again? What's different about it this time? Also Jesus Samuel L Jackson is old. I hope they don't make him run or anything.
 
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Watched the Secret Invasion trailer and have to say I wasn't all that excited over it, then again I never understood the point of it with the Skrulls being good guys in MCU, and feel more like it's a "make up" test because they couldn't do it the right way before now. I just hope it's better than Falcon & Winter Soldier since it seems to be another spy thriller type drama.
It was neat to see the real Fury and Hill together again though, just not sure it's enough to interest if they story intrigue isn't there.
"Skrulls" aren't good guys or bad guys. Talos and the Skrulls we saw in Captain Marvel are good guys. Obviously there are Skrulls in Secret Invasion who are bad guys. Not every member of a particular group of people is exactly the same as every other member.
 
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Yeah the trailer is pretty skimpy. I never understood the appeal of the Secret Invasion comic. So the Skrulls are impersonating superheroes...again? What's different about it this time? Also Jesus Samuel L Jackson is old. I hope they don't make him run or anything.
I'm pretty sure they have Jackson looking intentionally haggard, but the man IS 73 years old. Anyway, here's a picture of him from earlier this year--

1663017349667.png
 
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Probably not going to comment anymore on She Hulk... This episode was like Devil Wears Prada meets Night Court. I don't dislike the character or actress, but the show could not get more inane.
  Spoiler:  
Did we really just get a full episode on wardrobe and trademark litigation? Ugh.
 
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Going to post something fun that I've been messing with. In an attempt to put a positive spin on all the current MCU stuff. I've divided the current characters into teams. I'm sure I'm excluding some (not sure if Hawkeye or Hulk are going to be involved any time soon) and there are others I'd LIKE to add as well as some I've added because I wanted to.

SO: Teams of 8 or 9: *** for those I'm adding in
Young AvengersThunderboltsWest Coast AvengersNew AvengersA ForceMidnight Sons
Kate BishopYelena BelovaFalcon CapHank PymCaptain MarvelDoctor Strange
Cassie LangTaskmasterJoaquin Torres (Falcon)WongMs. MarvelClea
Kid LokiRed GuardianWar MachineAnt ManSpectrumBlade
Eli BradleyBuckyMoon KnightShang ChiIronheartBlack Knight
WiccanGhostScarlet ScarabRoninShuri PantherWerewolf by Night
SpeedUS AgentWhite VisionNamorWaspElsa Bloodstone
America ChavezAbominationScarlet WitchHerculesVaklyrieMan Thing
Iron Lad (Kang Var)***ZemoShe HulkSilver Surfer ***SersiDaredevil
Hulkling ***ValWonder Man ***Wolverine ***Singularity ***Ghost Rider ***
 
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Probably not going to comment anymore on She Hulk... This episode was like Devil Wears Prada meets Night Court. I don't dislike the character or actress, but the show could not get more inane.
  Spoiler:  
Did we really just get a full episode on wardrobe and trademark litigation? Ugh.
Yeah...it was pretty bad. And the saddest part for me? My favorite live-action superhero show (and really just one of my favorite shows in general)...Daredevil...is making a comeback...in THIS. I'm CRINGING at how they're going to BUTCHER him.

So I sat down and finally watched Thor Love and Thunder and really must say, for my take...Marvel's really taken a downgrade of late. I liked some things, Gor was actually quite interesting and entertaining (and sadly underutilized) but for the most part...I thought this movie was trash. And what's a shame is I really LIKED Ragnarok. I def. see what people mean when they said this one crossed the line into too goofy. I think literally every scene save one (yall know the one) is undercut with some cringe joke. I swear, the screaming goat were funny the first one or two yells...by the 50th time (I swear it's got to be THAT many times), I just wanted to strangle them. Talk about beating a dead horse...or should I say goat? So wait...Thor can give his power to people now? He can do that? Huh? That might have come in handy with...um...Loki, Ultron, Thanos...!!! And thus children defeat Gors shadow army? I was just facepalming the whole time. And I'm not even going to even touch on the overly preachy socio-political "messages" tossed so haphazardly into this that just made me roll my eyes. Well I will note this one: Apparently Valkyrie's character defining attribute is...she's a lesbian?! Really? That's how much effort you're going to put in here? Just really a graining film...axe Taika ASAP! He's overstayed his welcome. Many, myself included, think Marvel has a comedy problem and leans way too heavily on it...and this one is by far the shining example of far too much comedy and far too little laughs had.
 
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Yeah...it was pretty bad. And the saddest part for me? My favorite live-action superhero show (and really just one of my favorite shows in general)...Daredevil...is making a comeback...in THIS. I'm CRINGING at how they're going to BUTCHER him.
I've been trying hard not to think about what they're going to do to Daredevil.
 
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Yeah wasn’t the best episode but entertaining in its own way. Very light on plot. Still stoked to see how Daredevil will be on this show. Fun fact: my sister met Charlie Cox once in NY. She had no idea what Daredevil was
 
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She Hulk is EXACTLY what I thought it was going to be....Ally Mc Beal featuring She Hulk. I went into this with that exact expectation, and am loving it. It's a complete comedy.
Thor should be Darker and Grittier. so that was sort of a bait and switch. the entire movie gets a Razzie.
Daredevil will carry on the same tradition as the netflix show. That could be Iron Fist's helmet....
Just because a character shows up in this show, does not mean they are now a comedic character.
Disney doesn't get Marvel, or how it works. They refuse to let the characters be themselves in the name of mass appeal.
 
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Yeah wasn’t the best episode but entertaining in its own way. Very light on plot. Still stoked to see how Daredevil will be on this show. Fun fact: my sister met Charlie Cox once in NY. She had no idea what Daredevil was
That's super cool! Charlie Cox was at a local convention and I couldn't go. It was my birthday and my friend told him I'm a MASSIVE fan of him, DD, and the Netflix show and he actually called me and left me a happy birthday voicemail. Still have it on my old phone, def. never deleting that.

See I'm excited to hear Leader will finally show up, but I also cannot help but think...why in Captain America? I associate him with Hulk.

She Hulk is EXACTLY what I thought it was going to be....Ally Mc Beal featuring She Hulk. I went into this with that exact expectation, and am loving it. It's a complete comedy.
Thor should be Darker and Grittier. so that was sort of a bait and switch. the entire movie gets a Razzie.
Daredevil will carry on the same tradition as the netflix show.
Just because a character shows up in this show, does not mean they are now a comedic character.
Disney doesn't get Marvel, or how it works. They refuse to let the characters be themselves in the name of mass appeal.

See that's the thing about MCU Thor. Movie Thor and comic Thor are almost two different entities. Comic Thor is stoic, albiet cocky, and they did attempt that with the first two Thor films. It's just, from what I heard, Thor wasn't resonating as well with audiences as others so by the time of Ragnarok they rewrote him entirely thinking a more comedic version would be more appealing. Ironically, it was, but comes at the price of denegrading the comic role. Thor's now moreso known as a sort of frat bro baffoon with a heart of gold which, really, that's more comic Hercules. Ragnarok worked well enough for me, I actually rather liked it, but it was riding a line for me of...this is as far as I want "frat" Thor to go and no further. But sadly, with Love and Thunder, it went way past the line into just cringy territory.

The ultimate irony is, while frat bro Thor isn't really accurate to comic Thor, it is kind of funny that it's more accurate to the actual mythological Thor...who was basically a big meathead.
 
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Wait a minute... what is the deal with Titania? Like, who the hell is she, why did she break into the courtroom that first time and why wasn't she apparently in any trouble for it?
 
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She Hulk is EXACTLY what I thought it was going to be....Ally Mc Beal featuring She Hulk. I went into this with that exact expectation, and am loving it. It's a complete comedy.
Thor should be Darker and Grittier. so that was sort of a bait and switch. the entire movie gets a Razzie.
Daredevil will carry on the same tradition as the netflix show. That could be Iron Fist's helmet....
Just because a character shows up in this show, does not mean they are now a comedic character.
Disney doesn't get Marvel, or how it works. They refuse to let the characters be themselves in the name of mass appeal.
ok... I gotta know. I don't really want to know, but I gotta know.

What are you loving about She Hulk? I'm not one to rip apart CG. It's jarring at times, but cries of "Marvel should do better blah money blah" are just pointless. I kinda like the fourth wall breaks because the actress is quite compelling. The supporting characters are vapid but not devoid of comedy. The story is meandering ... like did we just get a 5 episode origin story ... and we aren't done with that even?

I can say I don't HATE it, but it's gotta be my least favorite thing they've done so far. She Hulk, Love & Thunder and Multiverse of Madness have thrown me for a loop. I had a bad feeling with the titles... but assumed when they were announced that it was just a quirky thing they decided to do (Quantumania included).

These last 3 things I've seen have been questionable at best. After Marvel hit a dozen home runs in a row I guess it's not so bad, but man Black Panther has some heavy lifting to do.
 
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ok... I gotta know. I don't really want to know, but I gotta know.

What are you loving about She Hulk? I'm not one to rip apart CG. It's jarring at times, but cries of "Marvel should do better blah money blah" are just pointless. I kinda like the fourth wall breaks because the actress is quite compelling. The supporting characters are vapid but not devoid of comedy. The story is meandering ... like did we just get a 5 episode origin story ... and we aren't done with that even?

I can say I don't HATE it, but it's gotta be my least favorite thing they've done so far. She Hulk, Love & Thunder and Multiverse of Madness have thrown me for a loop. I had a bad feeling with the titles... but assumed when they were announced that it was just a quirky thing they decided to do (Quantumania included).

These last 3 things I've seen have been questionable at best. After Marvel hit a dozen home runs in a row I guess it's not so bad, but man Black Panther has some heavy lifting to do.
It's just what it is supposed to be... Entertaining! Is it the She Hulk I want? NOPE!
I liked Multiverse of Madness, but that has been the ONLY Marvel thing I have genuinely liked since the last Avengers outing.
The heyday is over, woke wasn't a thing until the tail end of the Infinity Saga, and the characters for the most part were who they ought to be, save for the Asguardians.
Many of my favorite "Quarter bin" characters got their just due, and Dr Strange is still pretty strong (but not sorcerer supreme?) Shang Chi was a shadow of what it should have been, and they really need to lay off the comedy across the board. It worked for Guardians because most people haven't a clue who any of them are to begin with.

Is She-Hulk a woke mess of man hating crap? YES! is the poltline completely obtuse? YES! is it trying too hard to be something it is not? NO! it's just entertaining. The most interesting iterations of She-Hulk would NEVER make it past Disney censors anyway!
 
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Here's my question: what is it you guys hated about Multiverse of Madness? Sometimes I feel like the only one who REALLY liked it. Often I just hear complaints about not enough cameos which I think is totally unfair. But I do also hear about Wanda's total villain turn, but I don't really get why people were shocked. I saw that coming a mile away. Plus it explains it's the Darkhold, it's like the One Ring...it's corrupting her. Then lastly, is it just because it leans heavily on horror...and horror is more a niche genre? I mean, it's easily my favorite movie of Phase 4.

And with that said, I don't get why people like Shang Chi so much. That one I didn't care for much at all.

And then I actually ...mostly...liked Eternals, much to my surprise. But people don't seem to like that one either.

And THEN I did like No Way Home, but I do find it very overrated. I still wish the third film in the series had just been a more traditional Spidey story and had played off of what was CLEARLY set-up at the end of Far From Home - a Kraven story with Peter on the lamb and being hunted. I of course can only theorize, but I feel fairly confident in saying that that was the original plan...and Sony play the "We had a deal" card and came in and insisted on a Multiverse thing to promote THEIR (former) Spider-Man movies.
 
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I don’t get it. I loved multiverse of madness. I liked love and thunder. I enjoy all the shows except ms marvel that was marginally more boring because it was too much history lesson and not enough superhero stuff. Either way I like what we’re getting.
 
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It's really quite simple, and gets brought up all the time in SW threads, not everyone likes the same things. I don't get the anti Madness as I quite enjoyed it, that didn't mean I totally loved it but it as enjoyable enough to be worth my trip to the theater.

Shang-Chi was just okay for me but it gets a lot of love for whatever reasons. That said, it says something when I like a movie about a character I don't know over a Thor movie!

Eternals I felt was overhyped and just didn't land well with general audience due to its nature and themes. I thought it was okay but felt like it dragged in places, frankly there really was too much to tell/absorb and not enough time to explore it all.

I like NWH the most out of the bunch also feel it's overrated. I think it has to do more with what made Top Gun 2 a hit nostalgia and finally getting back to the theater in a normal setting.
 
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It's really quite simple, and gets brought up all the time in SW threads, not everyone likes the same things. I don't get the anti Madness as I quite enjoyed it, that didn't mean I totally loved it but it as enjoyable enough to be worth my trip to the theater.

Shang-Chi was just okay for me but it gets a lot of love for whatever reasons. That said, it says something when I like a movie about a character I don't know over a Thor movie!

Eternals I felt was overhyped and just didn't land well with general audience due to its nature and themes. I thought it was okay but felt like it dragged in places, frankly there really was too much to tell/absorb and not enough time to explore it all.

I like NWH the most out of the bunch also feel it's overrated. I think it has to do more with what made Top Gun 2 a hit nostalgia and finally getting back to the theater in a normal setting.
The way I put NWH is...I highly enjoyed, but again...it's not the direction I necessarily would have gone had I been in charge. But I'm not in charge. :ROFLMAO: It's very enjoyable, but I wouldn't place it among my favorite MCU movies either. People treated it like the second coming and again, while I very much enjoyed, I also think there are much better MCU movies. I actually think over-all all the MCU Spidey films have been pretty solid, but NWH isn't even my favorite one of them. I just think they did Mysterio and Vulture SO well and seems people agree. They're regularly in top 10 MCU villain lists, sometimes even top 5. Strange they're more limited in threat level, yet far more interesting and well done than so many other world threatening villains in the MCU. I do have very high hopes for Spidey now though moving forward considering how NWH ended - basically him being (kind of sorta) CLASSIC Spider-Man.

For me, the biggest issue I have with Shang Chi is the fact that they may as well have just thrown the comic book out the window. Everything is so different from the Shang Chi I know (as is "Mandarin"also) that it was hardly recognizable to me. I found Awkwafina's character the new Darcy, grainingly annoying in ever way. I know most of my complaints are coming from a comic fan POV, which I'm not opposed to alterations when done right, but I just didn't care for these ones in Shang Chi and the Ten ...Bracelets? I mean I guess they're "rings," technically...but still. Did we really need that much of fake Mandarin? I cringe every time I have to see him. I got him appearing...per se (could have been just referenced though)...but they really overdid it with him IMO. Then when they get to that fictional whatever land, I'm sorry...but it just felt like Pokemon to me. And maybe unfair of me, but they legit have a giant dragon...and it's NOT Fin Fang Foom? Petty of me, I suppose, but irked me. The movie just didn't do it for me at all and Shang Chi himself I found to be a VERY bland generic protagonist. If I had to say anything nice about it, I did like some of the fights, albiet superficially, and I actually REALLY liked the opening sequence with his mother and father/maandarin. In fact, I liked the opening so much...I really had hope for the flick. Alas, was not for me.

There were things I liked about Eternals a lot and things I didn't care for at all. The "villain" seems almost an afterthought, especially with how it's wrapped up. However, I did quite like the ties to REAL world mythology through the use of the fictional marvel characters and universe. As a big mythology, archeology, and history nut...I had fun with that and all the more philosophical and theological angles it (at least...perhaps not always successfully) attempted. Wouldn't be a favorite, but I mostly enjoyed it enough. Honestly, I think it was attempting to be a "big brain" or "smarter" MCU movie, again perhaps didn't always pull it off successfully, but that turned some people off. I also think some of the Eternals themselves were, as characters, rather dull. Some of their histories of their actions were more interesting than their actual freaking personalities.

I actually really enjoyed Black Widow. It's very Bourne/Bond, which IMO is exactly what it should have been. Was exactly what I expected and I was pleased with it outside of the pretty unnessessary change to and underutilizing of Taskmaster. When there, was pretty darn cool...but wasn't there very much.

People can call me crazy all they want, but I love Multiverse of Madness and as stated it's my favorite of this phase so far. I've always been a big fan of both Strange and Scarlet Witch, I'm a sucker for Mystic types (my screenname is in honor of a wannabe mystic type after all...), and I'm a big horror fan.

Love and Thunder I addressed, but it's by far my least favorite of this phase. If I had to say anything I did like about it, well I was happy to see Hercules as the stinger. Granted it was the most predictable stinger ever, the second they showed Zeus in the trailers bet the after credits would be Herc, but nice to see nonetheless. But over-all, this was one of the...if not the...worst MCU movie ever made IMO. I'll legit take IM3, Dark World, Incredible Hulk, and Eternals over it for sure.

So out of six, that's four I (some more and some less) enjoyed...with one I was "meh" on and one I outright disliked. Could be better, but for my money...could be a lot worse too. I can say, I don't think there's been a MCU movie until Love and Thunder I sincerely outright disliked. Even the ones that had moments I disliked or were weak links weren't what I'd consider to be BAD movies, just weak or forgettable but not offensively dumb and cringy. Like I hated the Mandarin twist in IM3, but I loved everything before that and loved the plane sequence. I didn't find Incredible Hulk great but nothing incompetently terrible either. Etc, etc, etc. I thought Love and Thunder was outright bad. And I didn't care for Ms. Marvel and I haven't been wild about Shehulk. The only things before these that I thought were outright outright bad were subsidiary things, namely Inhumans and Iron Fist.

I can't say where I stand on the future of Marvel, probably cautiously optimistic...but I can also say, I have read some things about the future of the MCU that I'm not...at all...looking forward to. I'm not going to give up just yet, I'm going to stick it out for FF and X-Men, but I'd be lying if I didn't quote Padme in thinking they might be starting "Going down a path I can't follow."
 
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I thought the father/son relationship in Shang-chi was interesting, as were their hand to hand fights. Then the movie ends in typical marvel sky-beam action with some Dragon Ball added.

I liked Eternals because I thought it was the least MCU movie to date IMO. Sure we ended with another sky-beat battle. But the cast was too-notch.

still don’t understand the hate for Love and Thunder but whatever. Different strokes. Actually my only real criticism was the majority of fight scenes were pretty generic until we get to the child soldier scene at the end. I know people didn’t like the comedy blah blah but I was really moved by the Jane foster/Thor storyline.

the shows have been pretty unremarkable since wandavision. Just a lot of table setting. Moon knight was intriguing but I’m annoyed out of six episodes two didn’t even feature Marc/Stephen as Moon Knight. Ethan Hawke was wasted in his role, too.
 
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For me, the biggest issue I have with Shang Chi is the fact that they may as well have just thrown the comic book out the window. Everything is so different from the Shang Chi I know (as is "Mandarin"also) that it was hardly recognizable to me. I found Awkwafina's character the new Darcy, grainingly annoying in ever way. I know most of my complaints are coming from a comic fan POV, which I'm not opposed to alterations when done right, but I just didn't care for these ones in Shang Chi and the Ten ...Bracelets? I mean I guess they're "rings," technically...but still. Did we really need that much of fake Mandarin?
Well we all know why it was changed, in the current climate it would have been offensive to a certain hypocritical base and simply caused negative drama. There was no way to do a comic accurate Mandarin in today's society. I don't know why they had to give him fake magic though considering we have Dr. Strange, guess it fits with their narrative for whatever they plan to connect in future movies such as with Ms. Marvel's bangle. Shang Chi being "alien powered" instead of "spiritual" likely does feel different, luckily I never followed that character so there's no head canon to get over.
Yeah remove Akwafina and this movie improves a bunch for me

I thought the father/son relationship in Shang-chi was interesting, as were their hand to hand fights.
This was probably the best part of the movie and helped keep it grounded amongst all the chaos and weird alien creature invasion happens, and to some degree felt like it took the hit by the craziness that ensues at the end. Marvel finally made an interesting Villain with depth and it's muted down due to being in a weird setting like that with jumping bean arms etc. This was another instance where the silliness almost overdid the seriousness.
 
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Well we all know why it was changed, in the current climate it would have been offensive to a certain hypocritical base and simply caused negative drama. There was no way to do a comic accurate Mandarin in today's society. I don't know why they had to give him fake magic though considering we have Dr. Strange, guess it fits with their narrative for whatever they plan to connect in future movies such as with Ms. Marvel's bangle. Shang Chi being "alien powered" instead of "spiritual" likely does feel different, luckily I never followed that character so there's no head canon to get over.
Yeah remove Akwafina and this movie improves a bunch for me


This was probably the best part of the movie and helped keep it grounded amongst all the chaos and weird alien creature invasion happens, and to some degree felt like it took the hit by the craziness that ensues at the end. Marvel finally made an interesting Villain with depth and it's muted down due to being in a weird setting like that with jumping bean arms etc. This was another instance where the silliness almost overdid the seriousness.
At least from the Shang Chi comics, I know his dad was...literally...Fu Manchu. I never had an issue, but I know plenty on the internet find it offensive now. Then, in many ways, comic Mandarin is basically Marvel's diet Fu Manchu. I was fine with that alteration. Shang Chi being Mandarin's son is "close enough," but I don't know. I don't find comic Mandarin offensive either, but I can get a level of caution. However, it may be petty, but I was just so annoyed by how different Mandarin was in other ways, particularly in changing the rings (as in finger rings) to bracelets and what their abilities were.

My biggest grievance with MCU Mandarin, though? The fact is that we will never see Iron Man battle against his most iconic foil. I always enjoyed the iconography of their battles. Thematically, they don't outwardly seem to match up. One might think more doppelganger-like roles are more adjacent. After all, roles like Crimson Dynamo, Iron Monger, and Titanium Man are basically just "evil" nationalistic corporate versions of Iron Man. Hence why he stands out, but there's a lot of deep Eastern vs Western going on in the Mandarin fued. He's such an interesting foe for Tony in that he doesn't mimic Iron Man but rather is the exact opposite mirror image. He is the yang to Stark's yin. It's a clash of science and technology vs. mysticism and spirituality. Mandarin represents antiquity, whereas Iron Man represents modernity. It's a battle for ideological relevance highlighted by both utilizing militants—Stark being an arms engineer and once a war profiteer for American patriots, and Mandarin being a terroristic warlord for communist Asia.

As for Shang Chi himself, to my knowledge (and I'm far from a Shang Chi expert), he was a surrogate for Bruce Lee in the Marvel universe. Literally, just a master of Kung Fu. When Shang Chi debuted in the 1970s, Marvel echoed a lot of the popular culture and media fads of the time. Marvel heavily delved into the macabre, playing off of the resurgence in the horror genre with titles like Tomb of Dracula and Werewolf by Night while also introducing characters like Morbius the Living Vampire, Ghost Rider, Daimon Hellstrom, Brother Voodoo, and Blade the Vampire Hunter. The House of Ideas even introduced a parallel for Blaxploytation, that being Luke Cage: The Power Man. Finally, and most importantly, many foreign Kung Fu films were being imported into the United States and were gaining hyper-popularity. Marvel is famous for replicating hip trends of the era and inserting them...sometimes not so subtly...into their books. Nick Fury went from frontline warhero to secret agent simultaneously with James Bond making gold on the big screen. Punisher is a reflection of post-Vietnam era cynicism in the same way films like Dirty Harry established the rise of the anti-hero. Kung Fu was one of those rising subgenres that Marvel wanted to cash in on.

Thus, enter Iron Fist and Shang Chi. The thing about the character is that he was never a mega success, it was a niche audience at best. Iron Fist was always the most popular and approachable of Marvel's martial arts characters. Shang Chi's appearances were mostly reserved for much less published subsidiary titles or guest appearances. I'd venture to say Shang Chi is the most obscure Marvel flick with only The Eternals rivaling it. I bring up Iron Fist for a reason, though. I'm convinced Shang Chi would never have gotten his own film had Netflix Iron Fist been well received. I really feel he was only given a shot because of Iron Fist's failures.

My thought was that he's just too obscure and too real-world "powered" to achieve anything more than a potential appearance on the Iron Fist show. Yet, since Iron Fist didn't satisfy the Marvel fans' thirst for badass Kung Fu sequences (Daredevils fights being vastly superior), but rather was disappointingly underwhelming compared to what it should and could have been, Shang Chi was pushed to fill the void. Now, combine that with Hollywood's pretty overtly fashionable diversity push lately and if there ever was a time for Shang Chi...it was now. I think the role just got lucky, but to bare a level of relevance in the MCU...a guy who just knows Judo, Karate, and Kung Fu isn't going to cut it in order to compete. So they pretty much fundamentally changed the role, and in traditional comic fashion, I'm sure the comic character will now come to be altered to more closely resemble the film version.
 
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I do feel with all the super powered heroes in the MCU now, a more down to earth "non powered" Shang Chi probably would have been better suited particularly with the loss of Natasha and presumably Clint. Not too many characters dependent on their honed skills are left.
 
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I do feel with all the super powered heroes in the MCU now, a more down to earth "non powered" Shang Chi probably would have been better suited particularly with the loss of Natasha and presumably Clint. Not too many characters dependent on their honed skills are left.
I agree entirely, which is totally why I didn't care for the "super" change in him. I like having a more down-to-earth, vulnerable hero. I much prefer it when he is basically just Bruce Lee. And honestly, that makes him cooler when he's just a man with such EXCEPTIONALLY honed skills that he can go toe to toe with supers. That's just really commendable. I'm reeeeeeeeeeeally not crazy about giving him magic bracelet weapons or powers. I'm also not wild about the idea of him possibly becoming an Avenger. I just don't see that as his style, at least not the comic version I know. I'd rather have had this series be more akin to actual Kung Fu classics with traces of Marvel's larger universe, as opposed to more Marvel universe with traces of Kung Fu. He's just been so changed now and like said, I'm sure the comics will now make him akin to movie Shang Chi. It might not last in the comics, may be a phase, but it ALWAYS happens when a popular comic adaptation comes out - the comic follows the movie formula at least for a bit of time.
 
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