Joker - 2019

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I'm guessing the controversy MIGHT have something to do with the "late night" appearance on DeNiro's talk show. in the graphic novel "The Dark Knight Returns" there is a similar scene where Joker appears on the 'David Letterman' show and kills the entire crowd with Smilex Gas. I have nothing to support this theory, but I'm guessing, he probably does the same thing in this movie(?). IF this movie shows an audience-sympathetic, disenfranchised-white-guy, committing a large-scale mass-murder like this.. then I can see what all the fuss is about.


either way, I agree with previous comments -- I'm not interested in this. I also didn't watch "Gotham". and I have no interest in the Harley Quinn Movie. nor the "Pennyworth" series. ALL of these "alternate takes" on DC History are convoluted and contrived (IMO). the Joker was only created to be a "foil" for the Batman character. having a Joker-movie-with-no-batman, is almost as bad, as a Venom-movie-with-no-Spiderman. ie: why bother?
Your loss. You are missing out on an amazing film.
 
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It was great and Phoenix performance was amazing. I have been thinking about it since I saw last weekend, can't wait to own it on 4K and just throw it on whenever the mood strikes.
It always makes me snicker when, within the context of comic book movies/shows, folks talk about "alternate takes" but in this particular case I guess I have to consider the source.
 
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I thought the movie was pretty fantastic. Phoenix knocked it out of the freakin’ park, & should probably win an Oscar, imho. I won’t spoil it with details, however that one scene with Gary the midget was hilarious.
 
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Fantastic film. Phoenix was amazing and I'm sure River will be looking down and smiling.
 
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Honestly, I found it to be a masterpiece. I got chills...multiple times. Wow. But I am curious as to how many people got what was REALLY going on...
 
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Totally awesome movie! Absolutely loved it! His laugh is infectious!
 
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I think it's been enough time to say...it's SPOILER TALK time!


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I think this was much more like comic Joker than Ledger ever was. Ironic as it's not actually based directly on any comic...but here's the thing. Name me a Batman film that IS a direct adaptation?! There isn't one! Sure it doesn't have some of the comic Joker staples, but it's also a more realistic take like Ledger and this one is more an origin...so I wasn't really expecting the chemical bath or R
ed Hood backstory. It does, however, heavily draw from Killing Joke in many ways. Firstly, do we REALLY know that the Red Hood and Ace Chemicals origin was real? As said in the book, Joker says that if he has to have a past...he prefers it to be multiple choice. That might not be true at all. It's simply a possibility. It's just something that was pulling from an old 1950's issue from older continuity, the Red Hood story, and Alan Moore turned it into a Silver Age nod moment in the book. But the film does include that he's a failed stand-up comedian, had one bad day (a nearly verbatim line of dialogue said), has a walked on life, messed up relationship (in this case it's entirely imaginary)...etc. Even some of his clown coworkers and their behaviors mimic how the gangsters used and abused Joker into becoming the Red Hood patsy gimmick in Killing Joke. Heck even the little person is essentially Gaggy, the Joker's first real but short-lived dwarf sidekick in comics. Plus it is mostly about him BEFORE he's Joker, hence the exclusion of some of the more iconic Joker gimmicks like laughing gas. But he does do classic Joker things. Him broadcasting his crimes, for example, is a very traditional plot structure he's used in. He's a narcissist. He doesn't like to commit crimes, he likes to display them. It's almost a performance to him. He makes countless television and radio appearances in comics. His appearing on a live Late Night show comes directly from Dark Knight Returns. What I particularly liked, something I didn't about Ledger, was that this Joker IS clownish. He IS funny at times! He uses props, gags, jokes, and that LAUGH! Best Joker laugh outside of Mark Hamill himself. Ledger was too heavy on the serial killer and too light on the clown IMO. I enjoyed him, but never praised him as highly as others. I thought this was a PERFECT blend of both psycho and comedian. Ledger used little to none of the humorous aspects of the character. And ultimately, truest of all to lore, is the ending. I found it pretty clear...though I know MANY missed it...that ultimately the story wasn't even true. It was just a sympathy tale with maybe SOME truths and more fictions that he told to his psychiatrist. That's the joke! I'd theorized that this was HOW it would end for a long time. I've felt it's how it SHOULD end for longer. Surprise! Just another Joker con. Personally, I believe his name isn't actually Arthur, he's not remotely connected to the Wayne family, I don't think he was basically worshiped by the rioting mobs but rather that's simply how his narcissistic ego interprets how people view him, and I think he very much so milked the tragic events in his life to make them appear that much more tragic. This is something he is VERY known for doing. Lying! He's not some hero, it's not a film that glorifies violence...it's a monster telling his own story by falsifying his original to make himself APPEAR glorified and justified! It's NOT the definitive Joker origin whatsoever. It's another hypothetical...which I think makes it BRILLIANT! He's an unreliable narrator. He's a madman! After all, creating a fake sob story background is how he corrupted Harleen, his psychiatrist, into becoming Harley Quinn. I do, however, believe some things did occur. I do believe perhaps he was a clown, that he did kill those Wall-street types on the train, that he did murder his shady clown co-worker but did let the dwarf go, that he did kill his mother, that he was a failed stand-up comedian, that due to that he was invited on the Murray Franklin show, and that he did kill Murray on live television. Some things I'm iffy on? The Wayne subplot. I don't remotely believe he is actually related, but did the EVENTS happen? I will say, if he DID meet Thomas Wayne, I do not believe that this was how Thomas behaved...it's simply how he interpreted the encounter: Thomas was an A-hole. I also adore the idea that both Joker and Batman were born on the same night. I do believe there were riots the night Murray was murdered and perhaps that indirectly resulting in Thomas and Martha being gunned down that same night. I don't believe the crowd raised him up to be a messiah though. He's just projecting! It's how he saw himself. Now there perhaps is incentive to lie about the Wayne's, surely he knows of the very publicized Wayne family murders. Falsely connecting himself to the Wayne lineage would paint him more pitying as now he would have a personal share in that horrible but infamously famous event. After all...he wants to be famous! What he wouldn't know is that he just directly connected himself to his greatest enemy, Bruce, as he doesn't know Batman's identity. But I do, also, think that MAYBE the Wayne subplot did literally happen, though he's not actually related, but perhaps he DID believe Thomas was his father. He ALSO has incentive there as BEING related to the Wayne family would make him feel...well...special. Famous! He'd WANT to believe he's the illegitimate step-son of. So maybe he really did meet Bruce, Alfred, and Thomas. Who knows? And the film does bring up some major topical issues, that of inequality, rich vs. poor, and mental health and how that is often ignored and dismissed to abandonment by society and public officials. It's not taken seriously, which makes the Joker...all that more profound. The dichotomy of a clown, a caricature designed to represent happiness and even juvenile silliness, satirized within by a mass murdering maniac. The very idea of him is the gag! It's highlighting how serious things like mental health can be, yet how they're sociologically treated as no more than a joke. He's the embodiment of mental health.

Perhaps that's his cruelest joke of all. He wants us to theorized so in-depth on what was and what wasn't that we...well...go insane. We become him. Legacy!

Brilliant film. Absolutely brilliant.
 
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finally watched this yesterday... definitely need to watch it a few more times. Phoenix was amazing in the role.
 
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The wife & I saw it on Sunday. Phoenix is amazing. I would watch it once more but after that I would be done with it. It's so dark that this is one movie I would not buy on 4K.
 
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