Joker - 2019

[GNT]

DC are set to release a stand alone Joker film in October of 2019, it's said to be an origin story that has never been told staring Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker. Just today they've shown a paint test of our latest Joker which is kind of like Heaths version from the Nolan era.

Thoughts on seeing a Joker film?

 

[Masterfett]

Pass.
I don't need an origin story for the Joker. lol
Besides, what is he without the BAT? Who's the Villain then or the Hero?

That said, are they now going against the character they set up in Suicide Squad?
Also, is this after or before they realized a change is needed in their Franchise?

 

[GNT]

That said, are they now going against the character they set up in Suicide Squad?

This film will be it's own separate entity and not part of any existing DC movie. Jared Leto will still be the Joker in the 2nd Suicide Squad film etc.

 

[Cobalt60]

I never understood the clown motif...
...I get the pun, "crown prince" becomes "clown prince", like some kind of misheard song lyric -- I suppose that was "Risque" back in 1939(?).
...and I get the irony: bats are meant to be frightening but batmnan is friendly; clowns are meant to be friendly but joker is frightening.

but WTF do "clowns" have to do with "bats"? in general?
why is a Clown accepted as the defacto antithesis of... a Bat? of all things? how are they polar opposites?
it just seems kind of random, in an old fashioned, '1939' kind of way -- the villain is a circus clown, because this was the era of "Dumbo"?
(I'm surprised this stuff still "flies" in this day and age). see what I did there? Dumbo..? because he.. "flies"...? ok nevermind.



just saying. the motif itself seems very dated to the 1939-era, when 3-ring-circuses were THE popular form of national entertainment.
the circus-performer-motif also gave us the origin of the Robin character -- but this entire form of entertainment is rooted in the past -- it hardly even exists anymore.

it just seems odd to tell the 'Origin-Of-A-Murderous-Circus-Clown', set in modern times when the Ringling Bros. circus doesn't even exist anymore
that would be like re-telling the story of "Billy the Kid" in modern-day East L.A. -- or "The Lone Ranger 2099" -- it wouldn't really make much sense

(Ringling Bros "Greatest Show On Earth" ended in 2017 after 140 years -- this form of entertainment no longer permeates the public consciousness -- Circus Clowns are not a "Thing", like they were in 1939)
(I'm sure this character made perfect sense back in 1939 -- but transposing it into a modern setting? I don't "get it"). see what I did there? "get it"? because.. I don't "get".. the.. "joke".. ok nevermind

 

[LandoGriffin]

Allllrriiigghhhttyyy then

Anyways, I like what I am seeing so far

 

[DarkArtist]

I was on the fence when I 1st read about the upcoming Joker origin story but after seeing the leaked stills and video of Joker I'm on board. the suit is very Cesar Romero like mixed with a splash of all the Jokers (minus Jared Leto).

 

[Cobalt60]

Allllrriiigghhhttyyy then

Anyways, I like what I am seeing so far

LOL

just saying. even the character of batman himself is very era-specific. Bob Kane was responding to a publisher's call for "more superhero comics" (for the sake of superhero comics) in the wake of Superman's success a year prior. before Superman, the kids were all reading mystery/detective stories... so his idea was to keep that ball rolling by crossing the superman template with that of the gumshoe detective genre -- this required a "superman costume with cape" that was all black by necessity so his "Superhero Detective" could creep around at night gathering clues. he flat-out STOLE the "bat" motif from his favorite movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bat_Whispers (copyright laws are NOT what they used to be) and then just based the rest on Zorro (outlaw hero millionaire who marks his deeds with a "symbol"). the rest is pretty straight forward. it just seems really odd to me that the first villain in his rogues'gallery is a 1930's circus clown. that doesn't necessarily scream "antithesis-of-bat" to me. that just screams "sign of the times" (given that this was 1939 afterall).

just saying. for my money, I'd like to see a period piece set in 1939. "the joker" would be a sign of his times -- his character-motif would match the setting (as he was created in the first place). maybe the chemical bath which bleaches his skin, would give him extended life like Wolverine -- Logan's Origin takes place in the 1800's -- Joker's Origin should take place in "1939" just saying.

this would give context to the Clown Motif.

 

[LandoGriffin]

just gonna double down on my "alrighty then"

 

[lister]

just gonna double down on my "alrighty then"

Yeah, apparently he thought his second post somehow clarified the first instead of making him appear like even more of a rambling nut.

Reading his posts is the online equivalent of watching someone walking down the street talking to themselves.

 

[Masterfett]

Making the Joker anything other than a Clown would severely upset the internet. Are they supposed to totally change his character like they did with Aquaman?

I was on the fence when I 1st read about the upcoming Joker origin story but after seeing the leaked stills and video of Joker I'm on board. the suit is very Cesar Romero like mixed with a splash of all the Jokers (minus Jared Leto).

Yeah, because a picture is worth a thousand words.
I'd rather wait for a teaser trailer to get a feel for the ambiance, instead of prematurely saying I'm sold based on two photos.

 

[keknivek]

I find it fascinating to see DC flail about while Marvel just keeps killing it at the box office.

Marvel clearly had a plan in mind. They had a couple guys that put together a cohesive plan for where their universe was going to go and then executed it with very little sidetracking. Ant-Man may have been the one that had the most controversy with Edgar Wright losing his control of the movie.

It seems that DC just has no idea what they want. They did such a great job with the Dark Knight. Wonder Woman was excellent. Other than that, they just seem to hire people and try to figure it out. I think their idea for Aquaman is good. If you're a big Aquaman fan, then perhaps you hate it, but beyond the awful CGI work in Justice League and the odd "clipart" poster, Aquaman is at least interesting.

I guess a Joker movie could be decent, but are we going to have to start labeling them like Joker universe A, Joker universe 626, and Joker Ultimate Universe? Comics have had More versions of the joker artistically than you can count, but movies don't quite work that way (but who am I to say really?)

 

[MysterioMaximus]

One thing I dislike...and I'm just going to say it...yeah it'll be controversial...

I hate that now every Joker has to either look like, be like, or look and be like Heath Ledgers. Some comics are also guilty of this.

As much as I enjoyed his portrayal, that's just not the Joker to me. That's just someones interpretation of. It's interesting and a good portrayal, but it's just not accurate to me. It's an alternate version. I don't want Joker to come off like a slasher movie villain. He may be a mass murderer, but he's always had a level of...well....morbid as it is...charm. Likability. Literal laughter, dark humored as it may be. That's kind of been thrown out the window in favor of a less funny and more "trying to be" frightening version. But the irony, I find, is that I was far more afraid of the more comical serial killer than I ever was of the dead serious part they play today. To me it's far more sadistic and terrifying to do these acts of homicide so tongue in cheek witty and humorous, as if taking a life is NOT serious to him at all, than it is to portray him as Hannibal in clown make-up. Which, may I add, I'm kind of tired of the make-up thing too.

I miss the 70's - 2000's Joker, essentially the Arkham video games Joker which broken down is essentially Mark Hamill's BTAS Joker but rated R.

 

[Mildoo]

I hate that now every Joker has to either look like, be like, or look and be like Heath Ledgers.

ahem

 

[jedisquared]

JOKER

Teaser trailer is out. Thoughts?

 

[LandoGriffin]

I dug the trailer and looking forward to this come October

 

[VideoViper]

I'm not really sure what to think. By all accounts it sounds looks good. But who was asking for another Joker Origin?

 

[DarthPete]

Yeah it looks alright. Fingers crossed I guess.

 

[Hell_Hawk_33]

Can't help but feel intrigued after watching the trailer. I kinda gave up on DC and didn't go to Aquaman and won't go to Shazam, but I'll check this out.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

You know, I actually surprisingly liked the trailer. The issue is and someone said it, do we NEED a Joker origin movie? It's a lot like Solo to me. Could be good, but completely unnecessary. Here's what I do to save the film; it ends with contemporary joker in either the arms of Batman or in a chair with Harleen Quinzel where it climaxes with the classic "The Killing Joke" line of, "If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice," implying he has been reciting the narrative to one of them to gain sympathy and this may entirely be something he entirely made up the whole time. A gag! If that happens, I'll love it.

But I can't deny, there's a lot of artistry in this trailer, a lot of care. Much more than most modern DC films that this is just a trailer alone. And frankly, it's kind of disturbing...as a Joker "origin" should be. Being NOT part of the DC cinematic universe SHOWS.

 

[jedisquared]

Word is this is a radical, Scorsese-like take on the clown prince of crime. Yes, an origin story...but in no way connected to the DC movie universe ala WW, Aquaman,etc. They said Jared Leto could very well return in that universe.

You know, I actually surprisingly liked the trailer. The issue is and someone said it, do we NEED a Joker origin movie? It's a lot like Solo to me. Could be good, but completely unnecessary. Here's what I do to save the film; it ends with contemporary joker in either the arms of Batman or in a chair with Harleen Quinzel where it climaxes with the classic "The Killing Joke" line of, "If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice," implying he has been reciting the narrative to one of them to gain sympathy and this may entirely be something he entirely made up the whole time. A gag! If that happens, I'll love it.

But I can't deny, there's a lot of artistry in this trailer, a lot of care. Much more than most modern DC films that this is just a trailer alone. And frankly, it's kind of disturbing...as a Joker "origin" should be. Being NOT part of the DC cinematic universe SHOWS.

 

[VideoViper]

After watching Knightfall I am kind of hoping to see a live action version of Mark Hamil’s joker.

 

[Mildoo]

Can't help but feel intrigued after watching the trailer. I kinda gave up on DC and didn't go to Aquaman and won't go to Shazam, but I'll check this out.

Not going to Shazam! is a mistake.

This trailer really piqued my interest in a movie I had written off a while back. Very well made trailer, plus Phoenix is real creepy looking, and he's got the laugh down pat.

 

[E_CHU_TA]

i actually thought it was an April fools thing when i saw the trailer. the day before i was scrolling through my feed and i saw some picture of a lame looking guy with really half ***** clown makeup on, so much so that i didnt really pay attention and kept scrolling. the next day i saw a link to the trailer and realized that was the actual joker from the new film. i know a lot of people really like Joaquin Phoenix and he is a well respected actor, i have nothing against him i just have never liked his voice and i really cant picture it as joker. but mostly i just kept thinking isnt he a little old for an origin story, the same thought i always have when i watch Gotham, like Batman is just always beating up a bunch of old men. and for some reason when watching the trailer i kept thinking of the old early 80s film "the king of comedy" which i remembered later is a Scorsese film too. i actually think it could be a good film i just once again dont understand the look they have gone for with him. and like i said something about Phoenix voice has always irritated me.

 

[Masterfett]

Just not feeling this at all. Personally, I've seen so many takes on the Joker that this is simply not interesting to me. Not am I all that invested in in a movie just about him.

 

[bobafett14]

I always thought one of DC's strengths lies with it's iconic villains. After Superman and Batman (always 2 of my favs), you have to rank the villains right up top or higher than many of the heroes.

Seems like they are realizing that. It's just going to be so hard to follow Heath's perfect representation of the joker. Still would like to see more focus and expansion on the iconic villains and work them into the mix in the future movies and done well.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Joker 2019

Shocked I couldn't find a thread on this.

When this was announced, I was entirely opposed. I actually, at first, though it would be the Leto version, which I loathed. Leave his origin a mystery. But the more and more that came out, the more my interest peaked. I liked the idea of it being solo, it having nothing to do with the (frankly IMO) lousy modern DC cinematic universe. That was a plus. I still wasn't sold on doing a definitive origin for him though. I wasn't offended by the notion that it wasn't based on comic lore because, really, how could it be? There isn't a definitive comic origin, just more like potential options. But when the trailers dropped, I was very impressed and did catch they WERE drawing from comic elements I.E: Arkham, the Wayne family, he does stand-up, doing a late night talk show appearance (which he's done multiple times in comics) etc. I wasn't thrilled it was make-up again. I prefer it to be his actual skin, but I can roll with it. His suit, however, is easily the most comic definitive Joker look. Everything I was seeing looked great! But then the reviews came out and wow. It's receiving pretty much unanimous critical praise and even Oscar buzz...I always did think Phoenix was a phenomenal actor too. But I'll form my own opinion...

But then there's, of course, also the heavy audience criticism and even petitioning against it. It's very baffling to me. It's just the hip to be offended culture cliques, really a minority, but a very vocal one. The whole "Promotes toxic masculinity and will insight violence in straight white men" thing. Absurdity! Dislike the move for legitimate reasons, fine, but that is lunacy. Both Phoenix and the direct even commented on it. Apparently Phoenix even walked out of an interview.

So is anyone else excited for this?

 

[DagMarus]

I have no interest in this movie and I have NO idea why. The reviews are all glowing, but I'm not at all planning on seeing it.

 

[ThallJoben]

The Joker is getting a lot of press, far more than most films do. Just based on the little I've read/seen about the movie, I'm sure it will be deeply disturbing. Really like the fact that it's set in 1970's NYC - in fact, this setting/era is just as interesting to me as the Joker character. What I especially find fascinating about the film is that, just based on the trailer, it looks like it's got intentional "homages" to Taxi Driver (1976) and The King of Comedy (1983), two excellent DeNiro/Martin Scorsese movies. DeNiro's inclusion in this film just reinforces the references to those earlier iconic dramas.

Also, Phoenix lost quite a bit of weight for the role. He looks borderline-emaciated, which I'm sure is intentional. He always looked creepy to me, but even more so now that he's so much thinner - LOL.

And, being a comic book fan & purist to a great extent, when you really examine the previous filmed Jokers, the '89 Batman was the only one that was really true to the source material. I.e., the Joker "becoming" who he was due to falling in a vault of acid, so his face & hair permanently changed color.

That being said, I do appreciate the different incarnations of the character over the years, notably the late HL in TDK, and JL in TSS. And, I have a feeling Phoenix's take on the character will be extremely memorable. We'll see.

 

[VideoViper]

Given the time, I wouldn't mind if they backdoored this movie into the CW shows. As Batman may have been around pre-cell phone days in that universe.

 

[Masterfett]

It does seem that WB/DC is trying to go darker with their movies ever since TDK trilogy, not counting Shazam. Which ins't necessarily a bad thing, but it's almost like they're trying to border on slasher style.

This movie just doesn't interest me in the slightest.

BTW: Anyone see the Birds of Prey trailer? So yet another DC movie I'll be passing on.

 

[Cobalt60]

I'm guessing the controversy MIGHT have something to do with the "late night" appearance on DeNiro's talk show. in the graphic novel "The Dark Knight Returns" there is a similar scene where Joker appears on the 'David Letterman' show and kills the entire crowd with Smilex Gas. I have nothing to support this theory, but I'm guessing, he probably does the same thing in this movie(?). IF this movie shows an audience-sympathetic, disenfranchised-white-guy, committing a large-scale mass-murder like this.. then I can see what all the fuss is about.


either way, I agree with previous comments -- I'm not interested in this. I also didn't watch "Gotham". and I have no interest in the Harley Quinn Movie. nor the "Pennyworth" series. ALL of these "alternate takes" on DC History are convoluted and contrived (IMO). the Joker was only created to be a "foil" for the Batman character. having a Joker-movie-with-no-batman, is almost as bad, as a Venom-movie-with-no-Spiderman. ie: why bother?

 

[Hail_Lord_Helmet]

Saw this last night. JP portrayal of Joker is pretty good. I’d take him over Leto that’s for sure. The set up at the end of the movie would be a great lead in for maybe a Gordon movie which could lead into the new Batman. The big controversy is people think this movie could spur someone to violent acts, specifically white loners. It def is grim and gritty but you expect this from a Joker movie. His down spiral is def something. If you like the DC universe then go see this. Overall I think it’s a worthy watch at least...

 

[GNT]

I had my doubts about a whole Joker film but I must admit this film was pretty decent, Phoenix makes for a good Joker (thankfully better than Leto). The movie takes a while to get going but the payoff by the end is worth it. Some good story elements to help tie it in with Batman lore. This movie is a step in the right direction.

 

[Masterfett]

But in what direction? This Joker isn't connected to Canon, and Phoenix isn't returning.

 

[GNT]

The Joker movie can be its own thing, it doesn't need to be connected or expanded upon but there's enough there if they wanted to do so. Dc does a lot of standalone cartoon movies based on various comics so imo this is no different. You can appreciate it for what it is

The movie is a slow burn, its sets him up to be the Joker as we know but makes you kind of feel for him you know - his laughed at, bashed up etc so that by the time he turns the viewer kind of sides with him. They didn't treat this movie like a comic book movie, it's realistic with real life situations. I'm not saying it's the best movie ever but Phoenix does a great job bringing his Joker to life and the quality is really good when compared to the last few crappy Batman movies.

It's different, I didn't think I would like it but I enjoyed it.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

I'm with you, GNT. Sure it's not exactly going to be the feel good movie of the decade...but I mean, it's Joker. What did people expect? It's not a movie that even people love will just pop into their Bluray player any time. It's a highly disturbing character study film that I believe (too early to talk spoilers) is going to be terribly misunderstood by even those who adored it. It's got depth to it. I personally enjoyed it very much. Also, though there are alterations, of course, with a Joker origin there had to be...IMO it uses much more lore than they broadcast. You've just got to be pretty deep in Batman lore to notice.

 

[bobafett14]

I posted in the forums YEARS ago that I felt DC's strength was in it's villains, and they should do a villain centered movie.. glad they did, they could still do a few more.

This was a very different style of movie.. if hte mainstream goes in thinking it's your typcial comic book movie.. they may be disappointed. I enjoyed it.

 

[DarthBeek]

JOKER = MASTERPIECE

10/10

Absolutely LOVED this film. Wow. I'll be thinking about this one for days, and planning a second viewing already.

 

[DarthBeek]

But in what direction? This Joker isn't connected to Canon, and Phoenix isn't returning.

It could eventually. And Phoenix has already stated he'd love to come back to the character. This Joker NEEDS to be apart of the upcoming Batman films......

 

[DarthBeek]

Oh, and Leto's Joker was awful....AWFUL. I don't even consider his take to count.