Johnson "defends" TLJ yet again.

[MysterioMaximus]

Red headed
Black sheep
Round headed step brother

My friend, the above are some of the terms you used whilst accusing others of being juvenile. Granted, you may I. Hindsight say that “I was being ironic bro” but there’s no need for this. There’s nothing wrong with red hair, being black or a step child. If you complain about others not elevating the discourse you should really set the example yourself.

Your really don't get it, do you? I'm not remotely saying there is anything wrong with redheads, stepbrothers, or even round head Charlie Brown types. LOL! I'm using a cliche. You're really pulling for straws now. You Last Jedi defenders (which have really become a bizarre sort of off branch to woke culture) really like to try to make us out to be racist and sexist bullies and by now it's actually just become comical to most of us. You've all failed. You tried to take the Joker movie down. You failed hardcore. You tried to push all female Ghostbusters. Failed. Tried to push an all female Oceans 11 film. Failed. Tried to push another feminist agenda movie with the new Teminator. Failed. Now Charlies Angels, an inherently feminist concept but was prior successful, failed. Why? Because you forgot to make a quality story first. Was no controversy to Ripley or classic Sarah Connor, was there? I cheered when Eowyn killed the Witchking in Return of the King, "I am no man," the most girl power moment ever. Why? Because it was well written. Maybe because those were films made without a "shove it down your throat" agenda as opposed to story first. You're riding a ship...called the Titanic. It's sinking. It really has. Every film that idolized your literally quote, mine is an Alice in Wonderland quote, but every one that goes by your quote...flops comically. Why is that? Why do you think? You all like to claim you're the future, but are you? All I see is you being the discriminatory ones. Not us who, example, hate last Jedi! Your entire quote says all anyone needs to know about you. Your one of THOSE types. They type people hope they don't bump into because here we go. You lot really have nothing better to do then see injustices in your cereal, don't you? Get a life, brother, seriously....get off our back and get a life.

 

[Cobalt60]

to be fair, the Terminator movie failed because the female actors were not allowed to BE feminine. that movie had no "women" in it. yes, it had lots of female actors. but they were imbued with masculine traits. Cameron thinks masculine traits = "strong", and feminine traits = "weak" ... so he gave us a movie filled with "masculine females". as if, the only way to create a "Strong female character" is to present her as a man. this seems to be a popular trend in Hollywood. Rey was conceived as a "female luke"(not that there's anything wrong with that). much like the "female ghostbusters", the trend in Hollywood is to "gender bend" male archetypes with female actors, in a misguided attempt to upset the apple cart... but that's not the same as actually WRITING a female character, from scratch. like Eowyn (to borrow your example). "Story First", and all that.

just saying.

one of these promo shots shows "Strong Feminity"

the other is DEVOID of "feminity", and instead, depicts "strength" via male characteristics.

(the one in the middle is dressed exactly like Wolverine).

@ Cameron : dude , WTF..!?

(re: "strong" --- that word doesn't mean what you think it means) LOL

 

[Waggy]

Your really don't get it, do you? I'm not remotely saying there is anything wrong with redhead heads, stepbrothers, or even round head Charlie Brown types. LOL! I'm using a cliche. You're really pulling for straws now. You Last Jedi defenders really like to try to make us out to be racist and sexist bullies and by now it's actually just become comical to most of us. You've all failed. You tried to take the Joker movie down. You failed hardcore. You tried to push all female Ghostbusters, failed. Tried to push an all female Oceans 11 film. Failed. Tried to push another feminist agenda movie with the new Teminator. Failed. Now Charlies Angels, an inherently feminist concept but was prior successful, failed. Why? Because you forgot to make a quality story first. Was no controversy to Ripley or classic Sarah Connor, was there? I cheered when Eowyn killed the Witchking in Return of the King, "I am no man," the most girl power moment ever. Why? Because it was well written. Maybe because those were films made without a "shove it down your throat" agenda as opposed to story first. You're riding a ship...called the Titanic. It's sinking. It really has. Every film that idolized your literally quote, mine is an Alice in Wonderland quote, but every one that goes by your quote...flops comically. Why is that? Why do you think? You all like to claim you're the future, but are you? All I see is you being the discriminatory ones. Not us who, example, hate last Jedi! Your entire quote says all anyone needs to know about you. Your one of THOSE types. They type people hope they don't bump into because here we go. You lot really have nothing better to do then see injustices in your cereal, don't you? Get a life, brother, seriously....get off our back and get a life.

I rally hope the mods and admins read this. It is beyond hysterical and full off assumptions regarding what you think my politics are. I'm not pushing a 'feminist' agenda and so what if others are. There was nothing mentioned regarding 'feminist agenda' in my post. And of course, in retrospect you were using cliches in order to demonstrate how 'juvenile' others are.

It's a pity that such an 'us' and 'them' narrative, as well as whole scale 'agenda' setting conspiracies persist.

 

[CellBlock1138]

Terminator Dark Fate failed because it was rubbish.

The entire franchise has been rubbish for decades now.

 

[Grahame]

I rally hope the mods and admins read this.

Waggy, I'm only going to say this once more. You go out of your way looking for trouble, and it always seems to find you - why do you think that is? Did you talk to Philip like I asked? No? Then it's time to do that, because you can no longer post until you do.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Thank you, I very much so appreciate that. I do not remotely appreciate being insinuated to be a racist, a sexist, and someone who doesn't approve of non-traditional families... because I weaved a metaphor opinion that The Last Jedi is the black sheep of the franchise and that it doesn't really FEEL related. Since when, on Gods green Earth, does black sheep stand for some racial slur? Wha? I shudder to think what he'd say upon hearing someone, I don't know, talk about the Black Plague, maybe a Black Widow, hey...that bigoted day is coming up everyone, Happy Black Friday! Well, on second though, maybe that one really is evil anyway. Ha! I can't believe Lord of the Rings was allowed to be screened with its Black Riders! How utterly ridiculous and uncalled for. And it all boils down to, ultimately, just this petty need to attempt to embarrass, hurt, or humiliate someone...because they don't agree with their take on a movie. How absurd!

He did it to himself...

 

[HothHan]

Star Wars Movie Due Out in 2022 Has Reportedly Found Its Director - IGN

Lucasfilm reportedly has a director lined up for the Star Wars movie expected in 2022, and it is not Rian Johnson.

www.ign.com

So maybe RJ will make his movies sometime around 2030...lol

Thank the maker if this is true

 

[BoboFatt]

I think this just about sums up this thread.

Thanks for sharing. That was hilariously sad.

 

[Masterfett]

Wait a minute, I thought Star Wars was going on hiatus after the Saga ends? EP9 end of 2019 > new movie in 22 = 2 years. Not a very long hiatus to let people heal.

 

[Trooper31]

Actually three years, but I guess since we've basically had a SW film every year since 2015, a three-year hiatus seems like a long time for Disney.

I won't be surprised if the film gets pushed back a year depednding on how the new TV shows work out. The Mando seems to be well-received right now, so if they had any stand-alone type films in planning, they could always turn those into TV shows insetad.

I don't think it was confirmed whether the next films will be a trilogy, but if not, then I wonder how they'l handle things in case on of them is a big hit and they want to do a sequel.

 

[HothHan]

to be fair, the Terminator movie failed because the female actors were not allowed to BE feminine. that movie had no "women" in it. yes, it had lots of female actors. but they were imbued with masculine traits. Cameron thinks masculine traits = "strong", and feminine traits = "weak" ... so he gave us a movie filled with "masculine females". as if, the only way to create a "Strong female character" is to present her as a man. this seems to be a popular trend in Hollywood. Rey was conceived as a "female luke"(not that there's anything wrong with that). much like the "female ghostbusters", the trend in Hollywood is to "gender bend" male archetypes with female actors, in a misguided attempt to upset the apple cart... but that's not the same as actually WRITING a female character, from scratch. like Eowyn (to borrow your example). "Story First", and all that.

The new Terminator movie failed because it was unnecessary. Since T2 there hasn't been a single worthwhile movie. Of all the franchises ground into dust due to too many bad movies Terminator is at the top of list. T2 is a masterpiece - we studied the **** out of it in film school.

The new Terminator failing had little to do with depiction on women - it failed because it simply exists.

 

[CellBlock1138]

Wait a minute, I thought Star Wars was going on hiatus after the Saga ends? EP9 end of 2019 > new movie in 22 = 2 years. Not a very long hiatus to let people heal.

It's not the length of time that's important. It's the fact that it's happening at all.

 

[lister]

Wait a minute, I thought Star Wars was going on hiatus after the Saga ends? EP9 end of 2019 > new movie in 22 = 2 years. Not a very long hiatus to let people heal.

People need to "heal" because they saw some movies they didn't like?

 

[HothHan]

People need to "heal" because they saw some movies they didn't like?

You know exactly what it means. I know it's cool and edgy to belittle people that had 40 years of emotion invested into a franchise that felt let down and obviously "heal" is a strong word...but don't act like you don't get what it means.

Furthermore...yes the fan base has been fractured by some of the more recent movies and decisions surrounding this franchise and a chance to cool off and heal (again I know it's a strong word) would be beneficial.

But go right ahead and ask your passive aggressive bait questions to elicit a response we can all argue about. It's beyond predictable at this point.

 

[DagMarus]

Red headed
Black sheep
Round headed step brother

My friend, the above are some of the terms you used whilst accusing others of being juvenile. Granted, you may I. Hindsight say that “I was being ironic bro” but there’s no need for this. There’s nothing wrong with red hair, being black or a step child. If you complain about others not elevating the discourse you should really set the example yourself.

I don't think I've ever rolled my eyes so hard.

 

[lister]

You know exactly what it means. I know it's cool and edgy to belittle people that had 40 years of emotion invested into a franchise that felt let down and obviously "heal" is a strong word...but don't act like you don't get what it means.

Furthermore...yes the fan base has been fractured by some of the more recent movies and decisions surrounding this franchise and a chance to cool off and heal (again I know it's a strong word) would be beneficial.

But go right ahead and ask your passive aggressive bait questions to elicit a response we can all argue about. It's beyond predictable at this point.

Nobody's "belittling" anyone. And I AM one of the people with 40 years invested in Star Wars. I'm also an adult who doesn't need to "heal" or "cool off" or whatever you want to call it because someone made a movie that wasn't what I wanted it to be. I think I'll just get the **** on with my life.

Some people here have lost ALL perspective when it comes to these movies. It's like a goddamn sickness.

 

[HothHan]

Nobody's "belittling" anyone. And I AM one of the people with 40 years invested in Star Wars. I'm also an adult who doesn't need to "heal" or "cool off" or whatever you want to call it because someone made a movie that wasn't what I wanted it to be. I think I'll just get the **** on with my life.

Some people here have lost ALL perspective when it comes to these movies. It's like a goddamn sickness.

Well good for you.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Nobody's "belittling" anyone. And I AM one of the people with 40 years invested in Star Wars. I'm also an adult who doesn't need to "heal" or "cool off" or whatever you want to call it because someone made a movie that wasn't what I wanted it to be. I think I'll just get the **** on with my life.

Some people here have lost ALL perspective when it comes to these movies. It's like a goddamn sickness.

My question is, what makes you actually believe anyone isn't carrying on with their life? Conversing on the subject doesn't mean dedicating a life to. There's a lot of assumptions in this. I myself very much so enjoy discussing SW, both my likes of and my dislikes for. Passion and enjoyment don't mean obsession. I have a full time job, a social life, a relationship. I'm fairly certain 90% of my coworkers don't even know I'm a diehard SW fan. Because I get invested in SW and often argue TLJ online doesn't translate to me not carrying on my life. I don't think or talk nothing but SW in my actual life. Far from! Occasionally, to be sure, but it's not a constant. I do here because...guess what...it's a SW forum! People reenact the Civil War, should they have just gotten over it? They didn't even live it! People debate sports and athletes from decades ago because they enjoy it. It doesn't mean they don't have a life or must have some...sickness. It's call a hobby and hobbies are always more interesting and exciting when you can express your take to other fans, some who may agree, some who may not. That's called a community! Thus the very point of a SW film forum. If we just viewed a film and forgot it, moved on, this forum entirely wouldn't even exist. Star Wars toys wouldn't exist! Sure there are a few that need to get a life, I've said as much in an above comment. There's always lunatic fringe...and no I'm not saying that just the people who disagree with me on a film must be the lunatics. No. But make no mistake, I'm convinced the vast majority of us are just relatively normal people who like to talk Star Wars because we have a love for it. And end of the day, unfortunately, sometimes that love creates a reaction we like to share when we see Star Wars be (what we view) mistreated.

 

[HothHan]

My question is, what makes you actually believe anyone isn't carrying on with their life? Conversing on the subject doesn't mean dedicating a life to. There's a lot of assumptions in this. I myself very much so enjoy discussing SW, both my likes of and my dislikes for. Passion and enjoyment don't mean obsession. I have a full time job, a social life, a relationship. Because I get invested in SW and often argue TLJ online doesn't translate to me not carrying on my life. I don't think or talk nothing but SW, in my actual life, far from. I do here because...guess what...it's a SW forum! People reenact the Civil War, should they have just gotten over it? They didn't even live it! People debate sports and athletes from decades ago because they enjoy it. It doesn't mean they don't have a life or must have some...sickness. It's call a hobby and hobbies are always more interesting and exciting when you can express your take to other fans, some who may agree, some who may not. Thus the very point of a SW film forum. If we just viewed a film and forgot it, moved on, this forum entirely wouldn't even exist. Sure there are a few that need to get a life, I've said as much in an above comment. There's always lunatic fringe. But make no mistake, I'm convinced the vast majority of us are just relatively normal people who like to talk Star Wars because we have a love for it. And end of the day, unfortunately, sometimes that love creates a reaction we like to share when we see Star Wars be (what we view) mistreated.

Exactly. I had this pretty much typed up as a response and decided it wasn't worth it.

 

[Masterfett]

To be clear "heal" isn't my word, it's "Disney's". I simply used it since my question is in reference to the hiatus. IMO, I never thought we needed one to begin with. I too go on with life after witnessing a sh** movie. Doesn't mean we're not allowed to discuss good or bad here, since this site was made specifically for that.

Take a look at how long certain people bashed the PT, so I feel there's no time limit on discussions about the ST. Beside I'm also not one of those Social Media crazies who attack people with hate tweets etc. I'm too busy working for a living, and managing my own life to be caught up in that nonsense.

 

[Cobalt60]

the whole "toxic fandom" thing was completely blown out of proportion. not saying it doesn't exist, just saying it's a very small subset of the overall 'fandom' -- and the accepted media narrative about "toxic fandom", is not warranted.

Rian Himself admitted as much, while, ironically, complaining about "toxic fandom".

"You always have to contextualize how small a part of the fandom that section is. I'm not talking about people who like or dislike a particular movie. I'm talking about the people who have dedicated themselves to abusing people who are involved in the films. It's so small, but it gets blown up."

"Having been in the hurricane for the last two years, I can tell you that 95% of what I get even on Twitter is lovely and thoughtful and engaged, even when people don't like my movie."

^^ he basically admitted that 95% of the fandom was NOT toxic. even when they disagreed with him. and yet for some reason when TLJ was released he still felt the need to wage twitter-war on the whole of SW fandom, calling them "manbabies" and "misogynists" and "racists", to the point where news outlets STILL beLIEve that nonsense to this day....

...as witnessed by the headline of the article I quoted above LOL:

‘The Last Jedi’ Still Has Rian Johnson Dealing with Toxic Fan Fallout

The ‘Star Wars’ director discusses the franchise's chequered history with directors, and the influence of toxic fandom.

movieweb.com

^^ it's become the accepted media narrative that "SW Fans are Toxic" because it makes for good click bait -- but the Man Himself says 95% of all feedback he received was NOT toxic at all -- even when people disagreed with him, it was "lovely" and "thoughtful" and "engaged" -- so why does he contribute to this pervasive media narrative about "toxic fandom"? it seems like a farce.

 

[lumat]

My wife asked me to go see a movie with her and the in laws. I said maybe, until I asked what the movie was and saw it was ruin Johnson movie. I said no thanks, I will meet up after

 

[darthsatan]

I went to see it and it's OK. Just OK. Certainly not good enough to recommend to a friend.

Quite what on Earth is going on with the critics' unabashed admiration for this guy I really have no idea.

 

[HothHan]

Edit: deleting because what I wrote was actually irrelevant to this topic.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Basically if I see the uber troll Rian Johnson's name on anything...you best bet I won't see or support it. His work prior to TLJ was mediocre at best already. I mean I can't say I've ever once heard someone say "DUDE! You MUST SEE LOOPER! AND BRICK TOO!" No one says that, why? Because they're mediocrity at best. No one talks about them, they're for all intents and purposes forgotten. His top potential reaches a C- on the grading scale. So what a BRILLIANT move giving him both directorial and writing authority on an episode of the biggest film franchise of all-time. Disney gave it to literally just some guy, sheesh, just give it to one of us...we'd have even done a better job if you're gonna toss it to anyone. As a man who's done film school and worked on real films, I respect him for what he attempts to do (though I debate the final result of), but you don't hire a wannabe David Lynch type (which is an insult to Lynch) for a massive fairly methodologically structured brand name. You don't hire wannabe Andy Warhol to paint a Dali. All you'll get is a Campbell soup can filled with utter garbage that misunderstands the original message. It's like hiring a new employee, still learning but not doing too bad, to be a construction worker when they have a background in demolition. Maybe they built a bike ramp, one the leads to landing in the river BTW, but they def. destroyed everything by scrapping the prior projects of better workers and attempted to build said ramp that leads to a drowning conclusion of breathless disappointment. .It's demolished...and you wonder why when you hired a demolition...

 

[HothHan]

Basically if I see the uber troll Rian Johnson's name on anything...you best bet I won't see or support it. His work prior to TLJ was mediocre at best already. I mean I can't say I've ever once heard someone say "DUDE! You MUST SEE LOOPER! AND BRICK TOO!" No one says that, why? Because they're mediocrity at best. No one talks about them, they're for all intents and purposes forgotten. His top potential reaches a C- on the grading scale. So what a BRILLIANT move giving him both directorial and writing authority on an episode of the biggest film franchise of all-time. Disney gave it to literally just some guy, sheesh, just give it to one of us...we'd have even done a better job if you're gonna toss it to anyone. As a man who's done film school and worked on real films, I respect him for what he attempts to do (though I debate the final result of), but you don't hire a wannabe David Lynch type (which is an insult to Lynch) for a massive fairly methodologically structured brand name. You don't hire wannabe Andy Warhol to paint a Dali. All you'll get is a Campbell soup can filled with utter garbage that misunderstands the original message. It's like hiring a new employee, still learning but not doing too bad, to be a construction worker when they have a background in demolition. Maybe they built a bike ramp, one the leads to landing in the river BTW, but they def. destroyed everything by scrapping the prior projects of better workers and attempted to build said ramp that leads to a drowning conclusion of breathless disappointment. .It's demolished...and you wonder why when you hired a demolition...

Hey hey now...don't even put David Lynch's name in the same post where you are discussing Rian Johnson. Lynch is an absolute genius and Rian wouldn't even be invited to the Black Lodge lol

In all seriousness though I'm not going to say that Rian Johnson isn't a talented film maker. Although I have not seen any of his other stuff it has recieved some praise and people like it. Disney executives (who for the most part have a great track record) felt comfortable enough to give this guy the keys to a MEGA movie. He obviously was not cut out for Star Wars. Not at all. I will admit that some of his ideas, and certainly his visuals, were entertaining or had promise but they didn't fit in it the middle part of this Trilogy. He basically made his own individual film and that he tried to shoehorn into this larger narrative. Fortunately it seems as if his movie means jack **** because TROS ignores it or just subtlety retcons it (based on the trailer, teasers, interviews, leaks).

As far as his (never going to happen) Trilogy? I don't care if it comes out today, tomorrow, December 2022 or never. I won't be seeing it. I won't spend a single cent on a movie ticket or piece of merchandise. Not even a box of Ziploc bags with a character from the movie on it and certainly not any figures. It simply won't exist in my eyes.

 

[HothHan]

JJ Abrams Says Rian Johnson's Choices In 'The Last Jedi' Were "Weirdly Beneficial" To The Story Of 'Rise Of Skywalker'

Yes, we’ve heard it all before — “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” is going to alter/expand on some of the choices made by director Rian Johnson in ‘The Last Jedi.’ But does this mean that incoming filmmaker JJ Abrams is wiping the slate clean? Or perhaps the stories are true that Lucasfilm is...

theplaylist.net

If this isn't the nicest way of JJ saying "Yea I didn't care for TLJ either" than I don't know what is lol

 

[Trooper31]

I'm glad he stated that what happened in TLJ is not what he thought would happen after TFA. I wasn't 100% happy with the whole situation in the SW universe in TFA, but it was a new beginning and I was interested to see where things went from there. TLJ was just not what I was expecting and went in a completely different direction than I thought things would go after TFA. My hope is JJ can salvage enough to bring this in for a soft enough landing.

 

[Masterfett]

I suspect that it's because we're in this whole new "clickbait" generation, and controversy sells better than amicable.

I went to see it and it's OK. Just OK. Certainly not good enough to recommend to a friend.

Quite what on Earth is going on with the critics' unabashed admiration for this guy I really have no idea.

I've been seeing the buzz for this movie, and I can honestly say that it feel as if it came out of left field. While I don't hate the guy like some people seem to, I'm not thrilled with what he did to Luke. Thus do not have much interest in his work. But for his movie to be getting all kinds of love after so much criticism from TLJ seems odd to me. The movie looks okay to me, but nothing i'd write home about.
It's also doing well on RT, and some other reviewers liked it. I'll probably see it on Netflix.