Johnson "defends" TLJ yet again.

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Again, has it though?

Are movies really of a better quality that they were in the 70's. I'd have to wonder about that.

Whereas the 70's is seen as the true golden age of cinema, where classics of every genre were produced and are still beloved today. 'The Godfather', 'The Exorcist', 'Taxi Driver', 'Jaws', 'Rocky', 'Deliverance', 'Alien', to name but a few all wipe the floor with what's made today.

So, personally, I wouldn't consider the bar to be raised in modern cinema. Not at all.
That is such a blanket statement based only in personal opinion.

For every great movie in the '70's like 'The Godfather', 'The Exorcist', 'Taxi Driver', 'Jaws', 'Rocky', 'Deliverance', 'Alien' there was also 'Black Godfather', 'The Exorcist II', 'Jaws II', 'Killer Nun', 'Moment by Moment' etc.

And for every Marvel rubbish released today there's also 'There Will Be Blood', 'Eternal Sunshine', 'Boyhood', 'Moonlight', 'Children of Men', 'Inception' etc.

Both eras had there masterpieces and stinkers.
Either you missed a lot of great movies because of your hate for the current generation or you get off on being the old man yelling "Get off my lawn" to the young kids on the block.

The bottom line is you can't say one era is better than the other because they can't be compared fairly. Apples and oranges.

Just like sports players can't be compared.
Who's to say Connor McDavid wouldn't be as great as Gretzky if he played in the '80's.

 
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speaking of JawsII. this happens a lot in Hollywood, where the creator of a popular franchise sells his sequel rights to a corporate "studio" who tries to take that 'lightning in a bottle' moment and turn it into an ongoing corporate cash cow by churning out 'formulaic' sequels made entirely of pablum. Spielberg sold Jaws and had nothing to do with the lackluster sequels; Cameron sold the Terminator and had nothing to do with the lackluster sequels; and by the SAME token, Lucas sold SW and had nothing to do with the lackluster sequels...
WTF did we expect?

^^ in that context, I guess we need to compare "TFA & TLJ" to "Jaws2 & Jaws3" (or "Rise of the Machines" & "Terminator Salvation") or "Robocop3" for that matter. :\ it's sort of sad that THIS is the hole SW fell into. :\ I hope RJ is proud of himself, for the SW equivalent of Alien:Resurrection. :\
 
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The big blockbusters that studios sink in billions these day are absolutely hot garbage. MCU is absolutely the epitome of this. Perhaps whereas in the past decades, in particular the 70s, mainstream releases possessed more substance and weren’t so insultingly dumbed down to attract the lowest of common denominators for that almighty dollar. The major studios would appeal to dogs and cats if they could just to make that extra cent, nowadays.

I’ve been watching films of the 70s and 80s lately, and these critically revered, as well as box office successes, are the equivalent of the current-era smaller films that like the ones BoneFett mentioned. There will always be solid films, made by stellar talents that are strong storytellers. You just need to seek them out.

(The more I see of The Mandalorian, the less I'm liking it... Hopefully the content is stronger than the tired visuals... And hopefully Cassian won't disappoint in the story content, as well as the visual department.)
 
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getting back to his original comment (which sparked this thread in the first place)

“I think the instant you start thinking in terms of how do you not step outside of the bounds of what the original movies did, you’re not thinking the way the people who made the original movies did,”

--> he doesn't seem to understand that this is GL's sandbox and we're all just playing in it.

Rian is not supposed to "think like someone who is creating a sandbox for other filmmakers to play in" .. he's ONLY supposed to play in it -- AND follow the rules -- it's about Respect.

(if he wanted to create his own sandbox, he would have done it with Looper).

Rian says out loud, was trying to "think like" the people who created this sandbox in the first place... like suddenly HE owns the sandbox... like he's NOT just a guest in somebody-else's-home.

his comment is the height of all arrogance -- it's baffling, that he just doesn't "get it".

(at least JJ & Filoni understand, (and Favreax too from the looks of it): it's GL's world, and we ALL just live in it) LOL
 
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He's just trying to use selective memory to make his point. He doesn't want to mention that fact because then Fett wouldn't have "literally" just walked alongside the Empire. When in fact, he "literally" does a bit more than that.
It's not selective memory you silly goose. It was an error on my part when I was referring to the meeting on Bespin.

Don't worry, I'm sure you will still be in awe that one time we saw someone we think was Fett piloting Slave 1 or that one time he shot his blaster and that time Fett went out like some amateur and cracked his helmet against the barge. Funniest. Scene. Ever. Worse than the Bastion Booger.

Live long and prosper.
 
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That is such a blanket statement based only in personal opinion.

For every great movie in the '70's like 'The Godfather', 'The Exorcist', 'Taxi Driver', 'Jaws', 'Rocky', 'Deliverance', 'Alien' there was also 'Black Godfather', 'The Exorcist II', 'Jaws II', 'Killer Nun', 'Moment by Moment' etc.

And for every Marvel rubbish released today there's also 'There Will Be Blood', 'Eternal Sunshine', 'Boyhood', 'Moonlight', 'Children of Men', 'Inception' etc.

Both eras had there masterpieces and stinkers.
Either you missed a lot of great movies because of your hate for the current generation or you get off on being the old man yelling "Get off my lawn" to the young kids on the block.

The bottom line is you can't say one era is better than the other because they can't be compared fairly. Apples and oranges.

Just like sports players can't be compared.
Who's to say Connor McDavid wouldn't be as great as Gretzky if he played in the '80's.

My goodness...movies are clearly of a far superior quality then ever before. The range of talent, the quality of video capture, the complex themes that are further stretched than ever before, the rise of independent and world cinema, the plethora of genre making and breaking films, and artistic styles that are evolving...
 
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That is such a blanket statement based only in personal opinion.

For every great movie in the '70's like 'The Godfather', 'The Exorcist', 'Taxi Driver', 'Jaws', 'Rocky', 'Deliverance', 'Alien' there was also 'Black Godfather', 'The Exorcist II', 'Jaws II', 'Killer Nun', 'Moment by Moment' etc.

And for every Marvel rubbish released today there's also 'There Will Be Blood', 'Eternal Sunshine', 'Boyhood', 'Moonlight', 'Children of Men', 'Inception' etc.

Both eras had there masterpieces and stinkers.
Either you missed a lot of great movies because of your hate for the current generation or you get off on being the old man yelling "Get off my lawn" to the young kids on the block.

The bottom line is you can't say one era is better than the other because they can't be compared fairly. Apples and oranges.

Just like sports players can't be compared.
Who's to say Connor McDavid wouldn't be as great as Gretzky if he played in the '80's.

Nearly everything on this site is a "personal opinion".

Including what you have just typed. :whistling:

The point of the exchange you just waded into was about whether the "bar" has really been "raised" in respect to film output.
 
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speaking of JawsII. this happens a lot in Hollywood, where the creator of a popular franchise sells his sequel rights to a corporate "studio" who tries to take that 'lightning in a bottle' moment and turn it into an ongoing corporate cash cow by churning out 'formulaic' sequels made entirely of pablum. Spielberg sold Jaws and had nothing to do with the lackluster sequels; Cameron sold the Terminator and had nothing to do with the lackluster sequels; and by the SAME token, Lucas sold SW and had nothing to do with the lackluster sequels...
WTF did we expect?

^^ in that context, I guess we need to compare "TFA & TLJ" to "Jaws2 & Jaws3" (or "Rise of the Machines" & "Terminator Salvation") or "Robocop3" for that matter. :\ it's sort of sad that THIS is the hole SW fell into. :\ I hope RJ is proud of himself, for the SW equivalent of Alien:Resurrection. :\
'Jaws' wasn't Spielberg's to sell though. He only directed the film and declined to direct the sequel when asked. It's hardly surprising that he didn't want to go through all that again. Universal held the rights. They bought it from Peter Benchley and once the film did stupid box office, they chanced pretty much the same story again.

But in the 70's a bolted on sequel wasn't a guaranteed thing. It was quite a rarity. Nowadays, nearly every single mediocre bit of fluff gets a sequel, that automatically sets in motion the law of diminishing returns. In fact, 'Jaws" and it's sequels ('Star Wars' too) could be put in the dock as part of what has gone wrong with Hollywood movie output in general. It's that (those) film(s) that kicked off the absurd cycle that we see today, where every studio pumps ridiculous money into blockbuster fodder in the hopes of creating a "franchise" - I absolutely hate this word now - with films directed by insipid directors, who couldn't hold a candle to the people who helmed pictures 40 odd years ago. The likes of JJ Abrams is considered a pinnacle of film maker these days. a Spielberg copycat without a single original thought in his head.
 
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Nearly everything on this site is a "personal opinion".

Including what you have just typed. :whistling:

The point of the exchange you just waded into was about whether the "bar" has really been "raised" in respect to film output.
And you said it hasn't. But it has.
I think you conceded that the best movies of today are on par with the best movies of the '70's in terms of writing.

Now add in the fact that movies today have better cinematography and effects (which you also conceded) and the answer is yes, the bar has been raised.
:whistling:
 
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And you said it hasn't. But it has.
I think you conceded that the best movies of today are on par with the best movies of the '70's in terms of writing.

Now add in the fact that movies today have better cinematography and effects (which you also conceded) and the answer is yes, the bar has been raised.
:whistling:
I haven't "conceded" anything. This isn't a competition. It's a discussion.

I think screenwriting, in general, is poorer. It's most definitely a dying art. I also think cinematography is poorer, because of modern digital post processing techniques. Everything looks very similar these days, shades of teal and orange is a common complaint. Before digital, a cinematographer and lighting director needed to know exactly what they were doing to bring out what the director wanted to show. "Fix it in post" has become a much derided byword in Hollywood today, because of the likes of colour correction and whatnot. While it's a forward move technically, the effect is that a lot of movies end up look very samey.

Where there have been improvements would be in in effects and sound design. But even then, a lot of CGI is just a unconvincing as the model work of 70's movies.

So NO, I don't buy that the "bar has been raised" as a blanket statement.
 
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Actually Spielberg was considering Jaws-2, but was still tied up on Close encounters. Could he have made it a better movie well we will never know. The script was put together with the director of Jaws 2 and a few others. Meaning Spielberg would have made a different movie. With that said Jaws-2 was just a okay sequel to one of the greatest films ever made. In reality no Sequel to Jaws was ever going to be much. Jaws-3 -D and Jaws 4 are abominations and should have never been made.

the Empire strikes back, was the one and only time, I have ever seen where a sequel topped the original. Thank god lucas didn’t direct that.

And as far as the new look of films being better, I say no way. The glass Matt paintings in ESB and others from the past look a million times better than CGI garbage.

And as far as movies in the present being better than they were decades ago, that is ridiculous. All they do now is regurgitate some kind of sequel or pathetic remake that will be forgotten a month after it comes out. Box office today means nothing. Class will never be something you can buy. These clowns in the movie business now will never see or gain the kind of respect the classic great films have and will always have.
 
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Actually Spielberg was considering Jaws-2, but was still tied up on Close encounters.
Spielberg is on record as saying "making a sequel to anything is just a cheap carny trick". He didn't even respond to Brown and Zanuck when they approached him first. He further said, "I would have done the sequel if I hadn't had such a horrible time at sea on the first film." Spielberg had such a torrid time making 'Jaws' that it's almost legendary. I think he had a slight change of heart later, because the production had gotten into so much trouble, in the same way as the first one did, with the mechanical shark not acting the way it "should" and the director quit too. But it was only a brief change of heart, if I recall. I think Spielberg wanted to do something based on Quint's Indianapolis speech, from the first film. But, yes, you're correct, 'Close Encounters' got in the way at that point.

Could he have made it a better movie well we will never know. The script was put together with the director of Jaws 2 and a few others. Meaning Spielberg would have made a different movie. With that said Jaws-2 was just a okay sequel to one of the greatest films ever made. In reality no Sequel to Jaws was ever going to be much. Jaws-3 -D and Jaws 4 are abominations and should have never been made.
I don't think Spielberg's heart was ever truly in it. So, it's difficult to know how things would have turned out. His script idea for the Indianapolis may sound ok, but as a prequel to 'Jaws', I don't think it would have worked. As a film on its own, it would have been a better pursuit.

'Jaws 2' isn't a bad film though. It's pretty good in places, in fact. It's major problem is that there is far too much focus on the kids in peril and not enough shark action and the teens quickly become annoying.

Unfortunately, something like 'Jaws', the first mega summer blockbuster, was never going to just be let stand alone in its glory and although sequels weren't an inevitability in the 70's it was obvious that the producers were going to milk it until it dried up. They even considered a comedy at one point called 'Jaws 3 - People 0', which just shows a remarkable lack of grasp on what made the first film so popular.

the Empire strikes back, was the one and only time, I have ever seen where a sequel topped the original. Thank god lucas didn’t direct that.
Lucas proved that he had decent directorial chops with 'THX1138' and 'American Graffiti', but it's unclear how much help he had on those films to make them what they were. We know the 'Star Wars' was a collaborative effort and if he had had it all his own way would, probably, have been a disaster. The prequels show his shortcomings up in a very lucid light. But, yes, handing the directorial reins over to someone else proved to be a smart idea. It's just a pity such a high quality wasn't retained for 'Return of the Jedi'.

As for sequels, 'The Empire Strikes Back' is certainly among a handful of sequels that can claim to have topped the original, for sure. In fact, off the top of my head, I can think of only 'The Godfather Part II', 'Mad Max 2' and 'Evil Dead II' that would go immediately on that list.

And as far as the new look of films being better, I say no way. The glass Matt paintings in ESB and others from the past look a million times better than CGI garbage.
Yeh, I'm in the same boat here. CGI can look great, don't get me wrong and there are many fine examples. The final space battle in 'Rogue One' is absolutely fantastic and equal to any of the best model work that ILM carried out in previous Star Wars entries. But, there is a tendency for directors and animators to bugger things up as far as physicalities are concerned when they turn to CGI for the spectacular. Take a look at Legolas bounding up falling rocks in 'The Hobbit - Battle of the Five Armies' and you can see a perfect example of what I mean. Only a non-existent, non-physical, environment could allow for such nonsense to be created. Or even Poe Dameron's gnat like X-Wing pulling impossible G's and looking like it's being blown about by the wind in 'The Force Awakens'.

The greatest problem with CGI, despite the leaps and bounds that have been achieved from a technical standpoint, is that it allows film makers to indulge. Which can, and often does, lead to a disastrous route.

And as far as movies in the present being better than they were decades ago, that is ridiculous. All they do now is regurgitate some kind of sequel or pathetic remake that will be forgotten a month after it comes out. Box office today means nothing. Class will never be something you can buy. These clowns in the movie business now will never see or gain the kind of respect the classic great films have and will always have.
We really are in a pretty poor time regarding films, especially those coming out of Hollywood. Most big "must see" efforts are extremely poor. I just watched 'Godzilla King of the Monsters' last week and it was bloody terrible. Now, sure, it's a dumb monster movie. But that doesn't excuse it from its awful script, largely rubbish acting, woeful characters and unnecessary padding (it's 130 mins long and really feels it!). In terms of effects, it's ok, but it never manages to shake off that CGI mush feeling that modern "effects movies" have.

But 'Godzilla King of the Monsters' is just another example of how redundant Hollywood is. It's just a rehash of something that came before, which constitutes far too much of cinema output these days. We live in a time where if it isn't another insipid Marvel movie, it's a reboot, remake or reimagining. But even the odd original that we get is usually poor too, like 'Mortal Engines', which suffered, again, from pis poor plotting, characters and acting.

That doesn't mean that it's all doom and gloom. There are still gems to be found of course. But they just feel few and far between these days.
 
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For anyone interrested, the Making of Jaws is worth a watch & almost as long as the movie its based on. Its a story of a film that never should have worked & only because what it is today because of everything that went wrong.

It is also one of the reasons Spielberg locks down his sequel options, or else someone would have tried to remake Back to the future (without him)
 
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For anyone interrested, the Making of Jaws is worth a watch & almost as long as the movie its based on. Its a story of a film that never should have worked & only because what it is today because of everything that went wrong.

It is also one of the reasons Spielberg locks down his sequel options, or else someone would have tried to remake Back to the future (without him)
There’s about 4 of those making of documentaries.The best of these and the most complete one being on the 20th anniversary laser disc. Parts of that Documentary is split up all over some of the Anniversary DVD editons but only complete on the laser Disc.
 
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Today I traded in my TLJ Blu Ray, rendering my Star Wars film collection incomplete.

It felt good.

B)
 
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Excellent choice, you now taken a step into a much better world. May only the Classic Star Wars films be with you. :)
 
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Today I traded in my TLJ Blu Ray, rendering my Star Wars film collection incomplete.

It felt good.

B)
It's time to let new things die. Blu-rays, action figures, the Funko Pops, that bagged salad mix branded with Star Wars. Let it all die.

DarthSatan, I want you to join me. We can collect together and bring a new order to the community.

:awesome:
 
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Today I traded in my TLJ Blu Ray, rendering my Star Wars film collection incomplete.

It felt good.

B)
Good for you!!B)

I never bought one to begin with.
Same here.


Same **** that movie. Why would I waste more money on it?
Well said and I agree.


Me neither. After passing on a copy of TFA for just £1 I came to the conclusion that my version of the story ends at ROTJ.
I think I'm hopping into this boat as well.
 
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I bought Solo the day it came out (actually a day before, but I was just in the right place at the right time).
 
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I think at this point, I'd prefer a series instead of a sequel. I think Disney now sees Solo probably could have worked better as a series than a single movie. I enjoyed it, but they crammed a lof of Han's history (meeting Chewie, his dice, the Kessel run, meeting Lando, winning the Falcon) all into one film and those could have been split into separate episodes in a series.

However, I'm not too hopefully they'll ever mine this possibility. I think they'd rather go with other projects.
 
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Bad as TLJ is, I won't get rid of my copy. Then again, I would probably buy an official release of the Holiday Special too.
The bad movies are as much part of the franchise as the good ones to me.

And it's not even about something being canon or head-canon. It's hard to explain, but TLJ and the fanbase-split it caused is now part of SW real-world history.
So even if the events within the film don't 'count', I still consider it important enough to include it in the line-up. Even if it's in a "Yeah, this happened..." manner.
 
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Yep - I really like Solo (and I'm quietly hoping it gets a sequel movie or two, or a series...)
I wouldn't want a cinema release of a sequel or follow up but I would totally be interested in a Disney plus series or film.
 
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https://www.*****ute.com/video/Io9hILdeiT0S/ <<<<< Apparently bit chute should have thought a little harder about their name...

The Last Jedi - Re-Edit take 2 <<< click this one

I'm just going to leave this here. It's the re-edit/fix of TLJ by Ivan Ortega. If you know about it then you should share it with others. I fully plan on this replacing TLJ in my library. It may not be perfect, but hopefully it will lead into TROS and make the viewing experience of all three more enjoyable. It fixes almost everything wrong with the movie.
 
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Glad you enjoyed it, nothing wrong with that. I think TLJ should have never been made in the first place. This re-edit to me is like lip stick on a pig. I can appreciate the hard work someone did on this re-edits but in reality it’s a waste of time as far as changing someone’s mind. The movie and it’s hack director with all of his bad decisions can never be saved.

If Disney goes ahead with him and a new SW series, it will be the biggest mistake they ever made. Well maybe the second, right after listening to KK.
 
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Robot Head does great videos. A lot of times, the "defense" the pro-TLJ crowd has actually isn't defending the film itself but rather backtracking to attack the originals. They can't logically justify the plot-holes, inconsistencies, cringe humor, and over-all just poor writing and decision making on Rian's part...so they just panic like a little kid on the school playground. "OH YEAH! Well the ORIGINALS were HORRIBLE!" It's distraction and nothing more. The flaws of one film do not justify or explain the flaws of another films. "I know you are, but what am I?" really adds nothing to the table.
 
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I'm no expert, but you're not gonna win anyone over by attacking what made this franchise in the first place. They might be horrible to the uninitiated, but they're also endearing which is what gave them a 30+ years lifespan. What will TLJ look like in 30+ years?

Also, it's 2018o so it's not helping your cause by comparing today's' crap to 30 years ago. If you can't make a better movie today than back then, it's time to hang up your hat and your mouth dip****!
 
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A good post above by “Masterfett”. Attacking the Classic Star Wars movies and especially for the reason of the new Star Wars movies being so terrible is just ridiculous.
 
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End of the day, you can't justify a films flaws by discussing a different films flaws. It's irrelevant. So the OT isn't flawless, so what? Does pointing that out make TLJ perfect or at the very least better than what is on screen? No! It's folly. It just comes off as juvenile, like some little punk kid you know who decided to insult your dad, a war vet. Sure he might not be perfection, but he's a hero...and that kid's just the redheaded stepbrother. The OT is a heroic masterpiece, flaws and all, whereas TLJ is that black-sheep and embarrassingly round-headed stepbrother you quietly deny you're unfortunately now loosely related to.
 
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The fact is that despite the many inherent and at times hilariously unforgivable flaws of the OT we have learnt to accept it. Love it. Cherish it. ANH was ‘bashed’ by the actors themselves who loved the experience of the characters/acting but thought some of the world building, dialogue and character choices were somewhat perplexing. I listened to our beloved Carrie say so in the flesh in London. I really like the PT/ST too, despite their many flaws.

The fact is that the OT has been elevated, both in the mainstream and fandom, to such a lofty status that rarely does rational discourse of its flaws get well received. Whilst bashing the ST is beyond rampant. It at times IS the only conversation.

Keep in mind what Ford said and his reservations regarding the OT.
 
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End of the day, you can't justify a films flaws by discussing a different films flaws. It's irrelevant. So the OT isn't flawless, so what? Does pointing that out make TLJ perfect or at the very least better than what is on screen? No! It's folly. It just comes off as juvenile, like some little punk kid you know who decided to insult your dad, a war vet. Sure he might not be perfection, but he's a hero...and that kid's just the redheaded stepbrother. The OT is a heroic masterpiece, flaws and all, whereas TLJ is that black-sheep and embarrassingly round-headed stepbrother you quietly deny you're unfortunately now loosely related to.
Red headed
Black sheep
Round headed step brother

My friend, the above are some of the terms you used whilst accusing others of being juvenile. Granted, you may I. Hindsight say that “I was being ironic bro” but there’s no need for this. There’s nothing wrong with red hair, being black or a step child. If you complain about others not elevating the discourse you should really set the example yourself.
 
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