I dont understand the hate

Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,193
Reaction score
0
Location
Chicago
I'm not gonna lie I completely agree with you about the used look. I think that's problem with movies today in general. So many things, especially when they're done with CGI, look too clean and perfect. They don't have the little imperfections of reality. I have a 15 year old car myself. I would far from describe it as Falcon level junk, but it has some scratches, a ding here and there, a few small rust spots, and the occasional electrical bug. I keep it around not just because I can really afford better but also because I love the heck outta the thing. The PT seriously lacks that "old beater" look to most of its vehicles.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
10,979
Reaction score
134
Location
Hillsboro, IL, USA
I don't believe the CG is to blame for the shiny, newness of the Prequels. I think that an intentional production design decision.

I thought the look fit well for Naboo, but didn't really seem to work as well for the rest of the trilogy. Even when they tried to dirty things up, the film's larger budget and higher production values still made everything look more slick and polished than it should have.

Since we're on the topic of what we did like about the Prequels, I actually really did like Naboo. The culture, fashion and architecture were a nice change of pace from the grittier look of the OT. I wasn't as much of a fan of the Gungans or their architecture style, but if I had to actually pick a planet on which to live out the rest of my life in the Star Wars universe, I would pick Naboo. Seriously, who would want to live on Tatooine, Hoth or Endor?

I'm also a big fan of the Ep3 Clonetroopers, especially the Shock Troopers. In some ways, I like their design better than the OT Stormtroopers. I do have a few minor nitpicks with the armor that I believe would have been solved if they had just created an actual costume for the movie, instead of making them all CG; but for the most part, I really love that design. I like the Ep2 Clonetroopers as well, but I think I actually prefer the way they look in TCW over AOTC.

As for alien designs, I really like Sebulba and Dud Bolt. Both of which are some of my favorite alien designs from all of Star Wars.

I could also come up with a long list of vehicle designs that I think are superior to what we saw in the OT: the AT-TE, Hailfire Droid, AT-TP, Homing Spider Droid, Gunship, etc. Pretty much everything from the Army of the Republic and the Separatist's Army was awesome in my book.

However, everytime I start making a list of things that I really liked about the Prequels, I can't help but feel even more annoyed with how bad the movies turned out. If any movies were ever destined for success it was the Prequels; but unfortunately they completely fell flat in the storytelling department.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 17, 2005
Messages
192
Reaction score
0
I'm no fan of the PT, but like a couple others, I find myself defending it half the time. I find it absolutely fascinating how people pick and choose how to "suspend disbelief" to justify liking something or not. I myself totally buy into the whole ship thing. I would absolutely expect the capitol city to have new and shiny things. Out by me, I'll see 70's/80's pickups all day. Go to the city, not a one. Not to mention, the Naboo scenes were mostly royalty. If I saw a queen or the head politician driving around in a beater, well I'd be shocked. So I'm in the camp of not buying it's 20 years earlier, but I do buy into the location/social status difference explaining the cleaner look.

Anakin was also much more "worldly" than Luke. Luke was a farmer, technically a kid farmer, stuck on an outer rim planet. He had a vehicle, his bicycle kinda. Gets you around, not very far. Anakin was one of the top Jedi at Luke's age, on all kinds of adventures. I have no trouble believing he would have access to more than a few vehicles. In 2 and 3, he was actually in battles. Luke had a trench run. His ship made it, then all he did with it was drive around. Snowspeeder battle? He wrecked it. Speederbike chase? He wrecked it. He would've had multiple new ships too if he actually had to fight in them.

Just my 2 cents. I dislike many things about the PT, but you guys talking about the ships.....I'm like that's the least of the issues to me. Again, very interesting how people can have such differing opinions on the same thing.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
2,453
Reaction score
0
Location
(un)Sunny Belfast
Those are actually really good. Oddly enough the parody story makes more sense than the actual Prequels.

I always liked the idea of a paranoid love triangle between Ani-Obi-Padme.....it seemed to make more sense (to me anyway) that Anakins friendship with Obi could be a useful device for Palpatine to manipulate into turning him to the Darkside.

Add in the pregnancy and Anakins distrust of the council(and who could blame him....most of them were D!cks to him)and a realistic and believable storyline could be conceived.

Many good friends have cheated with a spouse/girlfriend behind their buddies back(and sometimes hiding it in plain sight)so it's a credible,real world plot device.

And the subsequent "reveal" has led to many a violent conclusion.....O.J. Kenobi anyone??

but I digress.....

the fact I enjoyed those parodies more than the actual movies speaks volumes.....

Larry Kenobi.....Drunken jedi Dance.offs???l....brilliant!!!

Darren
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
10,979
Reaction score
134
Location
Hillsboro, IL, USA
the fact I enjoyed those parodies more than the actual movies speaks volumes.....

Larry Kenobi.....Drunken jedi Dance.offs???l....brilliant!!!

Darren
I thought Creepio was a much more convincing villain than anyone we saw in the Prequels.

"AHHHH!!! You promised me flesh!"

:grin:
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
591
Reaction score
0
Location
Salem, Oregon
I like all Star Wars films. I was happy with all of them. I'm most proud of George for not copying himself and doing something different.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
1,085
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
Thanks teach. Btw have you read any of my posts? He's saying he wants to talk about the "hate"...the Prequel FANS (not the film) get. The thread has fortunately moved the topic to evaluating the films themselves. The title of this thread is intentionally inflammatory. Thankfully no one is discussing the "hate" FANS of the prequels recieve because that's just ridiculous (as was his claim of Prequels fans being "bullied" online, again another "trigger" word).


I always find it fascinating when someone shows up and decides to "choose a cause". You're going to get this thread back on track by suggesting we "defend our ideas and let arguments speak for themselves ". Again thanks for the advice. You know me...I just HATE to make legitimate arguments be all rational! :rolls eyes:
You're welcome.
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
4,686
Reaction score
89
Location
North Carolina
I don't hate the prequels. I just find them drastically underwhelming. On their own, though, they're fine, fun little adventure yarns. I accept them as part of the Star Wars universe, because I accept Star Wars, warts and all.
 

JVM

Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Messages
526
Reaction score
26
Location
Illinois, USA
A big problem on the internet is sometimes you have a viewpoint that is shared by a lot of people, some of whom are very respectful and genuinely intelligent, and some of whom are rude and vulgar about it, and when someone tries to call out the people who are being rude, vulgar and disrespectful, the good, respectful people are the ones who end up feeling attacked and getting into the middle, while the rude ones ignore the issue. It's always important to acknowledge that in any group of people, there are those who will take things too far - extremists and hatemongers exist in every movement. I've run into this issue several times before in a myriad of contexts and it's always difficult to get around.

Essentially, let's just say there are completely legitimate and acceptable reasons to dislike the prequel films, as someone who grew up with and enjoys them, and anyone who can respectfully dislike them is not a part of the problem. That doesn't mean there aren't blockheads who hate them for the wrong reasons or express their hatred in the wrong ways.

The secret to fandom, in my experience, is always to focus on the aspects you enjoy first and foremost.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
119
Location
Chicago, IL
The biggest issue I have in this ongoing debate are the people who are ALSO obsessed with Star Wars going "It's just a movie, why do you care? If you don't like it move on!" We wouldn't be sitting here if it were just some movie. It's a huge part of our lives, your's AND mine. This isn't some random flick that pops up, sucks, and then disappears. I've invested time, passion, love, and more money than I care to admit into worshiping at the altar of Star Wars since before I could form memories. I've passed that love down to my cousins and my nephew. People have passed it down to their kids. The connection to it runs deep. So when the spirit of the thing is so completely and utterly betrayed (at least in our eyes), there's going to be disappointment and anger. So we discuss it, and because we're passionate about the story, we get a bit upset and tend to be rude. The thing is, though, the people defending it do it, too. I'm guilty of it from time to time, for sure. There are people on this site who absolutely delight to rub it in that the EU is wiped from canon, or feel the need to constantly remind you how bad the prequels were, or just ignore legitimate complaints and call people "haters". For no other reason than to tick off people who enjoyed and invested in it. Every side's got some, though. It's fandom, and unfortunately, it doesn't garner a ton of respect in regards to differing opinions all the time.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
1,085
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
This forum is generally a safe space for lovers of Star Wars from all walks of life to feel safe to speak their minds without degradation or insults. People are welcome to voice opinions of all sorts, and the discussions can and should be heated, passionate, quirky, nostalgic, logical, nutty, solemn, and emotional. The only thing that should not happen is personal insults. As long as we respect the people, this forum will continue to be the wonderful place for many of us whose real-life friends just don't care much about the Star Wars universe; I myself am blessed with many friends and ever-so-slightly cursed with a lack of any friend who does more than enjoy the films a bit. I simply propose that we maintain the respect that sets this forum apart from the millions of flame wars that tend to plague internet message boards.

Rebelscum is a special place. I think we all appreciate the unique chance afforded by this forum to be Star Wars fans to varying degrees without fear of judgement. Thanks to you all. And Happy Holidays to you all.
 
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
2,739
Reaction score
65
I think everyone had a idea what the Story was and what they wanted to see on a Anakin/Darth Trilogy. Lucas went a million miles in another direction from what I wanted. I mean to have Darth Vader show up in the last 3 minutes of the 3rd Movie was really a disappointment. We should have had at least one Movie with Vader in the Suit taking care of Biz!
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
1,871
Reaction score
2
I don't hate them. EP1 is my least favorite of all of them but I just watch it as laying the ground work for the story and look upon Ep1-3 as one giant film. Each one picks up a bit more steam as they go along. The Lightsaber battle in Ep1 is epic.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
15,026
Reaction score
0
Location
Mesa, AZ
I can find things to like about Episodes 1 and 3. I suppose if push came to shove, I could find about 20 minutes or so in AotC that I could watch on repeat, but there's just some things that are not enjoyable. Hayden comes across as mentally challenged, some things in the PT blatantly contradict the OT, some of the stuff is just deadly boring or painfully badly written.

Obi-Wan in the PT is my favorite character in the entire saga, and makes me appreciate Obi-Wan in the OT more than I ever did before. Qui-Gon was fantastic. Yoda was pretty cool in RotS.

Padme was a weak character, always reacting never acting. Her impact was fairly minimal. Mace Windu was useless.

Jar Jar, was useless, but I could understand his being there. I could not understand why he was still in any kind of position of authority in AotC or RotS.

There's just so many things that weakened the PT and therefore the saga. If there would have been a critical set of eyes on the PT, I think it would have been tighter and more fun. I don't hate the PT, but I don't love it either. Although it did give us my favorite starfighter design in the Eta 7 Aethersprite interceptors.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
4,577
Reaction score
1
If GL had started with Anakin at about 15-16 and been able to advance the romance quicker - I think TPM could have been better. It would have also allowed him to get to the Clone Wars quicker in AOTC and started Anakin's turn towards the end of that film and spent much of the ROTS dealing with the turn itself. In the end TPM/AOTC are almost unwatchable to many (easily as many or more that say they like them) and ROTS, the best of the three, feels rushed in the last hour as if GL finally realized he hadn't told the story of Anakin's turn and the end of the Jedi and had to hurry to do so.

I'd have loved to have seen a more grown up Anakin actually piloting the fighter at the end of TPM and blowing up the droid ship without it being a happy accident. I'd like to have seen then an adult Anakin in AOTC fighting in the clone wars... dealing with fears of loss, desire for more power, etc. and turning or coming close to it by the end, then a full fledged onslaught/Order 66 for much of ROTS.

As-is, I won't watch TPM/AOTC and if ROTS is on I'll wait until the last hour or so to watch.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
2,069
Reaction score
1
Location
Long Island
If GL had started with Anakin at about 15-16 and been able to advance the romance quicker - I think TPM could have been better. It would have also allowed him to get to the Clone Wars quicker in AOTC and started Anakin's turn towards the end of that film and spent much of the ROTS dealing with the turn itself. In the end TPM/AOTC are almost unwatchable to many (easily as many or more that say they like them) and ROTS, the best of the three, feels rushed in the last hour as if GL finally realized he hadn't told the story of Anakin's turn and the end of the Jedi and had to hurry to do so.

I'd have loved to have seen a more grown up Anakin actually piloting the fighter at the end of TPM and blowing up the droid ship without it being a happy accident. I'd like to have seen then an adult Anakin in AOTC fighting in the clone wars... dealing with fears of loss, desire for more power, etc. and turning or coming close to it by the end, then a full fledged onslaught/Order 66 for much of ROTS.

As-is, I won't watch TPM/AOTC and if ROTS is on I'll wait until the last hour or so to watch.
I agree in theory with Anakin starting off older, but as a side note, I don't know if the problem with the PT was that it suffered from too few Anakin-Padme romance scenes. But it would definitely help us view his fall to the darkside as a natural progression, rather than an awkward and overly-forced development.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
4,577
Reaction score
1
It needed fewer romance scenes. My point was just that it would have allowed GL to get to that stuff sooner vs having to drag it out over the first half of AOTC. Maybe we could have missed the bits about sand and the cow surfing.

I think their romance could have been more looks and small comments and could have even largely happened offscreen between TPM/AOTC had they been closer in age. GL could have started AOTC with them already in love and maybe even married them off near the start before Anakin has to go into battle or something.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
5,690
Reaction score
146
Romeo and Juliet starts with Romeo pining about some other girl.. then he sees Juliet. they fall in love, in just one night.. in just a couple of scenes. no sand. no cow surfing.
it CAN be done. in just a couple of scenes. ;)





hell.. who saw "Excalibur"? in one scene, we see Uther lusting after the Duke's wife. she's dancing. Uther is watching her. the Duke is watching Uther. the music builds and builds. the dance becomes more lustful. Uther starts to sweat.. we KNOW what he;s thinking.. the music builds some more.. until finally he just SNAPS and goes to war. over the girl. he's willing to throw away his fragile peace treaty (he's willing to give up everything), for a woman and, somehow, the audience UNDERSTANDS.
-->done and done. all in one scene. with no sand. and no cows required. :p
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
6,524
Reaction score
1
Location
Southern California
Look, there's a reason why used DVD's of the PT (and clone wars) are abundant and used DVD's of the OT are non-existent.

Thank you. B)

 
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
5,690
Reaction score
146
when the blu-ray came along, the PT-DVD's were utterly replaced -- there's no reason to keep them anymore.
any changes to the PT films, went unnoticed.. because nobody really cares if they have the OPT, like they do about the "OOT". ;)

meanwhile, most DVD copies of the OT have original theatrical cuts on the bonus disc, ripped from laserdisc -- this wasn't "utterly replaced" by the blu-rays -- in fact this is the only playable copy of the OOT that many of us even own anymore (besides VHS) -- you'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers if you want my "used" copy -- etc. etc.

when they release OOT on blu-ray then ALL the old DVD copies of the OT will (finally) be "utterly replaced" and there will be no reason to keep them anymore -- it hasn't happened yet. :p

((PT-DVD's are obsolete -- OT DVD's? soon. but not yet))
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
First off, I Love Star Wars, I have ever sense I could remember. I grew up with the Original Trilogy in the 90's and then grew up with the Prequel trilogy when I was 8. For me, I would always like the Prequel trilogy more because of its the era I was always interested in sense Obi Wan mentioned the Clone Wars in "A New Hope", wanted to know how the jedi all died and the empire came to be. Plus I grew up with this like my dad grew up with the Original trilogy. Seeing it in theaters, waiting in the lines , going to the toy release for each movie. It was fun times, something I would never forget. Yes, the prequel trilogy is not perfect, but so is the Original. I love everything about the Star Wars Saga, but what I hate to see and don't understand why is this. I know each person has there own favorite era's in the Star Wars universe.

Everyday I see Star Wars fans being made fun of, bullied, ect by other so called Star Wars fans for just liking the Star Wars Prequels. I see it on the main Star Wars Facebook page, I see it on the 501st facebook page, I see it on youtube and other sites. What happened to the days where there was not this much hate/ drama in the Star Wars Fandom? What the heck happened? The hate has never been this bad before like it is today. I remembered when Star Wars fans would stick up with each other with bullies, not the OT loyal fans turning and becoming the bullies. I know I cant be the only person that is disturbed by this.
+1

Part of it is the nature of today vs. the 80s, part of it is the net (look at most forums and it's a cesspool of trolling and trashing anything and everything), part of it is perhaps that back then Star Wars used to be discussed by everyone and now days the whole comic book-type crowd just dominates posting and they are a different sort....
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
This topic has been discussed ad nauseam but the simple answer is that they are bad movies.
and there you go, I love how the hater set always makes sure to start every message with "and if there is one thing EVERYBODY agrees with", "and one thing that is fact", "and they are flat out bad case closed as everyone agrees"

I mean if you really thing EVERYBODY agrees why the desperate need for the haters to start 95% of their posts with "And the one thing we ALL agree on....".

No, no we do not ALL agree.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
when it comes to #4, GL lamented endlessly for 20 years that he couldn't make "his movie, his way" -- the studio constantly interjected, and prevented him from creating a slapstick muppet show.
when it comes to #5, GL hired Irvin Kershner and TOLD him what to make -- but Kershner/Kurtz/Kasdan staged a coup, and INSTEAD, they created a masterpiece.
You can't be serious about those claims can you???
That is so incredibly far off-base.

I love that the haters can't just hate 1-3, but now have to even totally re-write history and try to basically take away just about any last credit Lucas gets even for 4 and 5!
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
ROTJ feels rushed, but it's still a competent story, with some powerful moments-- and some of the best SW designs. It's not a mess. The Ewok storyline is sloppy-- and annoying, but at least it makes sense. Nothing of TPM makes sense-- and I like TPM.
A lot of the stuff that I've seen people claim makes no sense in TPM, such as that guy who drones on for four hours about it, actually does make sense and in many cases sense that is plain as day to many.

That Gungan battle makes absolutely no sense when you allow yourself to think about it-- other than to give Jar Jar's unfunny slapstick drwan-out screentime.
I do wish he didn't give the Gungans baby-talk and go so overboard with the slapstick during the battle, it did make the battle a mess.

Why would the TF bother to waste their ground army with the Gungans? And all the way out in some open plain? Why not just carpet-bomb the whole lot?
Wouldn't their dome shields have repelled carpet-bombing?

If the Gungans were attacking the occupied Palace, then I can understand why the TF would confront them... And the makeup of that Gungan Army makes even less sense: Why would airbreathing-only beings chose to live deep underwater in easily-penetrable structures surrounded by dangerous see monsters-- iwhen there's a vast, lush, sparsely-populated world above the sea? And all their mounds/ beasts of burden are also land creatures: Do the Gungans keep them somewhere on land? Why not just live on land? The story and design elements on their own are interesting, with so much potential. But, George puts absolutely no logic, thought, cohesion when he attempts to tell his story. At least the ewoks make sense.
Maybe they were driven there by people long ago? it sounded like there was some degree of bad blood between Naboo and Gungans even still (although with their Gungan army, you'd think they be able to take back anything by this point, although it sounds like they have a treaty to avoid war). It was said that long ago they lived in small cities on the land as often as in the water but had been driven back by invaders centuries and centuries ago and in the end decided it was best to just primarily live in the underwater cities. I guess they didn't really mind and felt equally at home there or nearly so and maybe it made them feel more in tune with nature?

They do have amphibian ancestry.

Where did you get that they are airbreathing only??? In fact, they are absolutely not air-breathing only. (again and again I see people who say this and that about the prequels was so stupid, end up getting even the most basic facts wrong upon which they built some, much or all of their case) They can breathe water as easily as air. I mean even note in TPM that the Jedi needed special breathing aids plus Jedi skills to be bale to swim down to the city but Jar-jar seemed to make it down there unaided without issue. They are said to feel uncomfortable when out of water or away from very moist swamp air for any length of time and to be able to breathe water as easily as air.

Maybe building the cities in those domes means they don't have to log and chop down their swamp forests and lets them enjoy the forests and all the food they produce as well? They are said to like to live in harmony with nature.

The cities were not were the giant sea monsters were, those were deeper down still. And the underwater were said to have helped keep them safe over the centuries.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
What is your definition of "bullying"?
Listen it's likely scacely ever any serious bullying, but it does get annoying that you can't post a darn thing positive about the prequels without the same bridage jumping all over you with a dozen posts.

it simply gets to be annoying that every single darn thread on Star Wars has the same brigade quickly filling things up with "waaaaaa Lucas killed my childhood", "i wish i could punch Lucas in the throat", "As EVERYONE agrees the prequels are a joke and Lucas has never done anything, even 4-6 were good only in spite of him", "midi-chlorians - waaaaaaa, this means I can't practice my force religion and there is no chance I'll ever be able to move things with my mind no matter how hard I pray to the force", "anyway who likes the prequels is a moron", "Lucas sucks"....

It is just tiresome that every other darn post is someone going on their rants after a while.


Heck every blogger without a clue seems to have joined in. it's all just Lucas bashing and hating and many of them have barely even seen any of the movies in some cases, it's just a quick hit=cash magnet.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
Actually, Lawrence Kasdan was just the screenwriter for ESB and ROTJ, he was never one of the producers of the films. You're probably thinking of Gary Kurtz, who was the producer that kept Lucas' rampant imagination and bizarre sense of humor in check. Leigh Brackett was the original screenwriter for ESB, but her initial draft was so bad that they basically tossed it out and decided to start again from scratch. She died shortly after, in 1978, which is the only reason she still gets screenwriting credits for that film. Lawrence Kasdan had just finished writing the script for Raiders of the Lost Ark, when he got the job to write ESB.
Yeah I thought it was with Kurtz where things went sour. I think he got blamed, in part for budget issues. Didn't Lucas even invite Kasdan back for 7 himself?

And something that few seem to know is that after they tossed out much of the Brackett draft, it was Lucas who then write an entire screenplay for ESB upon which the ESB as we know it was all based. Kasdan then gave it a major polish afterwards. And repeat. Few realize that not is not true that Lucas had nothing to do with the final story for ESB, that not only did he not not have anything to do with the screenplay, but that even some decent chunks of the final exact dialogue used in the film were written by Lucas even for ESB. I mean Kersherner and Kasdan did good things too, but it's a myth that Lucas had barely anything to do with ESB at all and that it was only great because Kasdan created the entire story and screenplay 100% himself.

And I don't know where some got the impression that FOX had great control over ANH and had to constantly reign Lucas in! I mean Lucas fought tooth and nail to even get final cut, never mind have FOX micro-manage the whole thing! I mean he basically paid to make ANH/ESB mostly himself, he put his entire financial future at risk. If ANH sold like ten tickets, Lucas would've been bankrupt and out on the streets.

Anyway, not that he didn't make a few things to kiddie when he started the prequels.
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
21,646
Reaction score
0
It does seem strange... the Naboo humans don't have an army to fight the TF with...but the Gungans, who may not be on the best terms with the Naboo, happen to have a full army.

Why do they have an army?
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
I never bought the excuse that George wanted the Prequels just for the kiddies. He may be a questionable filmmaker to some, and a totally clueless hack to me, but he's a very smart businessman. To limit his product to just one demographic-- and a demographic that has the shortest attention-span, thus limiting the shelf-life of his product, is just not a smart business move. I think George wanted an obvious film for the entire family, to reach as wide a demographic as possible, but he lacked the finesse-- and the social and cultural awareness of the times, to pull such a feat off; he's not Spielberg. George seems hopelessly stuck in the 1950s in his Ivory Tower with the tiresome slapstick that's very much a product of that time.
He probably was surprised by the shift post-80s. Dark, depressing grunge, the whole gangsta worship by suburban kids, the rise of all the first person shooter video games, the fiercer take of Matrix all gave things a different feel by the later 90s. It wasn't quite as suburban, bubble gum, happy, OK to be ridiculous as the 80s when TPM landed. People had a bit of a harder edge. If you went to an Ivy League or other top private campus in 1999 the kids their then seemed more like the kids did at a mid-tier state school in the late 80s in how they acted.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
personally the first time I ever saw a picture of darth maul I rolled my eyes. its the decade where tattoos and body modification suddenly became so cool and mainstream and suddenly we get a new villain that looks like one of these guys that makes his living just looking weird in side shows. to me he basically looked like what would have been an extreme hipster at the time of the films making.
hmm Maul didn't remind me of any hipsters in my area, more like a Mauri warrior or the like, if anything.

its not ok that Han shot first. but its ok our good guy religious cult heroes are fighting the bad guy 2 on 1.
I don't get why he changed the Han shooting first thing. How did that make him cold-blooded??? Greedo told him that he was going to just kill him, so what was Han to do? Get shot to death just sitting their like a fool? Han was a skilled smuggler, he's too smart for that. I do agree that change was weird. Lucas said that he didn't want to give a bad lesson to kids, but how was it a bad lesson? Greedo was just about to shoot him, so how does Han being smart and fast enough to get a shot off first to save himself = cold, blooded, calculated killer?

I cant stand seeing yoda with a saber. neither the emperor or yoda showed any signs of having sabers in the OT.
Ironically for all the Lucas hater. Lucas originally said that Yoda and The Emperor didn't use sabers, they were different sorts, almost above that. And every hater's hero, Kasdan, then said that he found that bizarre, that Yoda and the Emperor didn't use sabers and fight and that he found it hard to accept. Lucas said well just accept it because that is how it is.

Obviously between the time of ROTJ and AOTC Lucas changed over to Kasdan's point of view though.

But it's ironic that so many of the subset of prequel and Lucas bashers who didn't like those two using sabers who say that Lucas is the root of all evil and Kasdan the pure, perfect god don't realize that it was Kasdan, their pure hero, who first suggested that Yoda and the Emperor should be able to light saber fight well.

to me they were 2 of the very few actual jedi masters, and jedi masters have reached a place with the force where physical weapons are no longer needed.
That was the original idea of Lucas.

I could go either way with it myself. Maybe his original thought was a bit better, but I can live with the change.

what the hell is a sith? I never heard of such a thing until I saw ep1. I preferred when there was simply a dark side that a jedi could turn to. now its a whole different thing, they aren't actually jedi they are some other thing.
???? The term Sith has been around since ANH came out! Heck I have an original program from the opening day 70mm showing of ANH and it talks about the Sith!


actually I don't care for the whole pumped up force thing in general, I preferred the force being more of a concept than a whole bunch of actual materialized physical abilities. again the emperor and yoda were a couple of very few actual masters, outside of them physical powers should be a rare thing. it had taken yoda like a millennium of life to achieve that level, which in and of itself is something very few could ever have a chance to achieve anyway.
I don't think 4-6 ever presented it that way. They made it clear that there had once been a decent amount of Jedi. They talked about how the Emperor became a little disappointed with Vader since Vader ended up with less power than he had hoped after losing physical parts of his body which took away some of his full force strength. That was not some new thing Lucas came up with totally for TPM. You can see it referred to back in the 4-6 period.

feel like even mentioning Jar Jar is unnecessary. but I have to say for me I was 5 when a new hope came out, and that's a long time ago and im sure I have some nostalgia tainting me, but I do know me to some level and I know even when was a child I found stupid stupid. and I KNOW that even when I was a kid I would have found jar jar tiresome and in the way.
He did make some things a bit more Disney with TPM and that was something, even as a little kid that I had appreciated about ANH. Lucas always said he never knew what it was about ANH that did it beyond did it, well one thing was that he gave us cute stuff (like Jawas and cyclops monster in trash compactor and Yoda and so on, but they were realistic cute and not DIsney cutesy).

I don't know what the PT is about, all these years later I still don't know what was going on as I watched. a friend explained to me what it was about, a tax hike blah blah blah. but I still don't know what it was about, I still don't know what was going on when I was watching. I don't know if it was too deep for me or if it was so bad and boring to me I literally could not pay attention or something else. I DONT KNOW!
Wow, I could not disagree more. I didn't think it was all that hard to follow. And I loved that it had a deeper plot. I'm a bit afraid that all of the talk about too much plot, too much politics, too much anything might lend DIsney to dumb 7-9 down into a typical comic book action flick.


when I was a kid I wondered what exactly vadar was, whats under there is he a person or a robot or what? well later on that was explained to me when I found out hes lukes dad and more machine than man. and thats all I needed to know really. I had absolutely no desire to see him as a child, to see vadar with all his mystique stripped away.
To each there own. I always wanted to see that. I thought it was interesting.

i was also never a bob fett fan the way a lot of people are, I thought bossk and ig88 and zuckuss and 4lom all looked cooler.
I liked Fett a lot, but yeah I was never quite so over the top insane for Fett as many were. And I thought it was ridiculous that Dark Horse had to go and bring him out of the Sarlaac. And yet the prequel hates mostly seemed to cheer that. But isn't that the action of hack work?
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
^^^ I don't get the impression that anyone here criticizing the Prequels and SE are mad, or hateful towards them-- I'm certainly not... Maybe July... LOL But even with July, I only get that he's just venting. And he's able to take it as well as give it, so that's always respectable.

I never cared for the backstories of the characters, but if George wanted to go back and expand on their story, I was open to it. L'il Ani/ Space-Jesus would have been all good with me-- as long as he told a compelling story. He just didn't. He messed every single one of the characters up; these were the most unlikeable, cold, dim-witted and all-around jerky individuals ever committed on film.

When it comes to the design, that's when it becomes subjective, of course. I like the designs of TPM for the most part, and to me, I think it compliments the design aesthetics of the OT beautifully-- juxtaposing a sleeker, and richer, ornate, baroque elegance/ decadence to the oddly but pure utilitarian aesthetic of the OT's. Darth Maul's design is more an Asian infusion of the devil than it is of Western tattoo-culture rip-off. It's more Kabuki than it is trendy body-mods. Maul is the devil of classical Indian, Chinese and Japanese lore. And if you've seen his costume in an exhibition, you'll see how exquisite it really is. There are several shades of black layers, each with a subtle texture of Fortuny pleats. The costume designs of TPM are actually old-world craftsmanship, even haute couture level that's employed by the old fashion houses that sells a design piece at $80,000 (USD) to their wealthy clienteles. George and his art department did not skimp on quality for TPM-- both in the concept and production. So, as much as I rag on him for his storytelling abilities, I do think he did invested a lot in TPM. It's too bad the majority of people didn't care for the rich references of that film,
It is a shame. I also think it was a joke that the costume design part of the academy got all uppity and not only didn't give TPM Oscar for best costumes but that they didn't even nominate it! I mean I don't know anything about costumes and fashion and yet I know that was a heck of a lot more inventive and incredibly deeply thought out costuming than the period piece stuff they awarded and nominated instead. Come one!

I'm also shocked that such a large chunk of the prequel haters bash them for looking too elegant and shiny and not like 4-6. I mean did you not hear even Obi-wan talking about a more elegant and civilized age? Did you not get the entire motif of what Lucas was doing?? And for the record, it was not something that the 'washed up' Lucas of 1-3 came up with, there are old interviews where he already said 1-3 would have much different look and he told everyone why. WHich also brings up the point, if the people were the ultra uber fans that they claimed then how could they have been shocked and surprised by something that they should have had 20 years warning over??




Yoda served absolutely no purpose in the Prequels other than to show up for the fights-- and state how incompetent the Jedi are. And he looked more like Chucky the killer doll-- not at all like his enlightened self in ESB.
?? Yoda was used to show that even he made mistakes and that even the top of the top had lost their way and traded away some of their moral high ground and got too much into simplistic platitudes (like what he said to Anakin when he was having the bad dreams about Padme, didn't exactly help). etc.






By the time the ROTS one shows up, it's so cartoony and nonsensical, and drawn-out, I'm bored. Why is Obi-Wan so quick to agree to kill his long-time friend, his "brother'? And why did Anakin turn on Obi-Wan so quickly? And that nitwit Amidala dies of a broken heart 'cause her man's gone... good grief... good riddance, actually. There's no rhyme or reason-- it's because by the time they duel in ROTS, time's running out for the movie, and they just had to fight to the death because... that's what the OT said, and rather than let the story build up to those events leading to the OT, George cluttered the Prequels with tedious, unfunny slapstick battles, copycat day-at-the-arena, joyride-through-Coruscant, an ugly giant Bionicle twirling 4 lightsabers, and tacky Yoda-man action sequences, he forgot/ neglected why the Prequels' story existed in the first place, only to remember it in he last 30 minutes of ROTS.
disagree, but have to go and tired of typing so will leave it unexplained....
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
And by "bad" I mean they were - in my opinion - two of the worst movies by any major movie studio in recent memory.
Oh come on. That is is rididuclous. EVen if he hated he story and acting and so on and so forth, there were tons of movies that had zero story, no acting, no plot (and by miles and miles and miles, but even if we just take it that that is not the case and that they truly had the worst dialogue, stories, acting, etc. of any studio movie in years.... there was still at least what I mention next:) AND zero inventiveness in art design, costumers, characters and creatures, etc. and beyond terrible cinematography, so come on.

Were the special effects pretty good? Yes. Was some of the fight choreography compelling? Sure. Conceptually, the story arcs could have worked.
So right there you already proved your first claim a beyond over the top exagerration. ANyway I do have to go.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
223
Reaction score
0
Location
Coruscant
I can somewhat empathize with the folks who dislike the TPM and AOTC. TPM had a weird story, and AOTC had Anakin and Padme drama (nuff said...). But I truly feel that Revenge of the Sith is among the top 3 Star Wars films. While it did have some of the annoying Anakin and Padme sequences, and some bad writing, it did have IMO the strongest overall story that had the most impact on the saga. Don't get me wrong. I adore all Star Wars movies because it's Star Wars, but ROTS is underrated. I know this doesn't go with the above argument but that is my two cents.
 
Top