General Autograph Forum Rules - PLEASE READ

[Chris Wyman]

I personally have been lucky and not dealt with any on here.
Im sure others might be in touch though, especially those involved in the discowookie con.

That particular (former) member wouldn't fall under the category of "currently active" though. If there was such a list, it would only include current active members.

What a joke this statement is. This forum has become a real shady place. Chris, stipulating the member must be currently active to be added to a fraud list serves no one but the thiefs. Your motivation is transparent to everyone, you don't want to name him as a thief to protect people against him because he's your friend.. The guy still exists and still can rip off new people to this hobby. You being his friend is really going to be the motivating factor behind not including 'past' RS members on the list?

By the way I know this post is going to really infuriate you. I fully expect you to get rid of me. I know you can't take when people criticize your 'leadership' in public.

Regardless Chris your decision on only including current members in a 'beware' thread will prove to be very unpopular. Just ask the people who use this forum man.

This place is not what it used to be. And the politics and behind the scenes, backroom deals that all went on after CV and the Discowookie fraud is the biggest factor in the downfall of this once great forum.

Rebelscum is a great site, and other sections of the forums have their acts together with bad trader threads. This forum however has fallen hard.

Peace out.

I have to agree with Justin 100% here. Marc Moser(discowookie) ripped off thousands of dollars from people in this very community. And to be quite frank, I was very disappointed in how that whole situation was handled by the moderator of this forum. Chris, please explain to me why you feel that locking down a thread down at 500 posts is worthy of action yet the Marc Moser situation required no action. Several requests were made to pin a bad seller thread in this forum and you refused to do so. And now that you are considering it you are still refusing to list Moser's name. I guess I am just confused by your role as moderator, since you flat out refuse to warn people in this community about one of the biggest forgers and frauds to hit the world of autograph collecting in recent memory.

Clinton,

Please read my above post to Justin. I will also add that for a long time, it was an opinion war going back and forth. A handful of people felt one way and a handful of people felt the other way. I was not going to step in as if I was the deciding factor in such a big situation. I do not call myself an autograph authenticator because I am most certainly not. There are a few people who do and when you've got a few of the more prominent authenticators in the business arguing back and forth and disagreeing about certain pieces, that's one tough call to make. I suppose I could have flipped a coin...but that wouldn't have solved anything.

 

[Chris Wyman]

I'll get my coat.

Good luck. You're gonna need it.

Not sure if that was directed at me or not, but thanks for the good wishes if it was.

 

[Chris Wyman]

I love how a thread pretty much directed towards Mark and Graham has now turned into another Discowookie thread.

Thats seems to be the best way to deflect attention or responsibility around here. Some people can do no wrong.

To The_King: You come off as completely ignorant. The two you mention DID NO WRONG. They do nothing but good for this community. If you don't like the service they provide or how they provide it, try Wattographs. (Good luck with that).

Thanks for the backup Clinton, it's nice to see another long standing member around here speak up and back me up. We are not alone. It really is sad that a few squeaky wheels complain to get a brand new 'rule' about communication, yet a hundred squeaky wheels cannot get the name of the villain MARC MOSER who ruined this hobby and community put into a pinned thread.

This was a sock account which has been banned.

Justin, trust me when I say that it has not just been "a few" that have complained about the lack of communication.

 

[Chris Wyman]

Not sure what this has to do with Mark, but some of it was certainly due to me being out of touch for a while over the Lawson signing.

I've admitted that those delays were not a good thing and apologised for them, along with explaining the reasons behind them, some of which were beyond my control, other things I would do differently with hindsight. That's called fronting up and taking responsibility. After that, people can think of me what they like, but I have never done anything but my best for the hobby and this community.

You certainly won't catch me starting new accounts so I can anonymously flame people. If you have had a problem dealing with me, please tell us all who you are and we will sort it out.

I want to go on record, again, and state that this new rule about communication is not directed solely at you or Mark. If it was, you would have heard from me individually and privately. It's to anyone who accepts money and/or items from another member which happens a lot. I already mentioned this, but I feel it needs to be said again. This rule should have been in place for the last several years and it wasn't.

 

[Chris Wyman]

All of this goes back to marc and him selling fakes and keeping the money...that &#*@!) got to hurt the board 2x.

This certainly didn't help, but honestly, before all of the drama last year surrounding this situation, there were other issues causing problems. Issues that unfortunately were pushed aside once the community at large felt the aftershock.

 

[Chris Wyman]

I was out of this whole Marc Moser/Discowookie fiasco and none of my items, or money were lost. In regards to Graham's service I think it's outstanding. When 'your money' and 'your items' get messed with, it causes one heck of an emotional response.

We've had some shoddy things happen here and some people who've held signing events that are not to keen with a sense of business and/or customer service.

The current state of the autograph forum CANNOT be fun for anyone, user, moderator, or passer by's.... As a 'user' I find it's full of stress and It's no longer my 'escape'. I try to get into it and read..but now for the most part it's just 'sale threads' and fluff.

It's a shame all this has to happen. The practical ones here know the important contributors to this autograph forum. Those contributors will always be the ones that we'll always turn to when it comes to needing real information such as authenticity, 'in-person' tips, signature placement, ANYTHING that has any relation to the concept of "AUTOGRAPH".

This new rule for transactions is a step. BUT I agree with my fellow members the autograph forum. Changes with the way things are done here have to be made, or good, quality contributing members will leave the unneeded drama.

Well said Mike.

 

[Chris Wyman]

Now...

Can we resume normal service please?

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Chris Wyman]

There probably needs to be a mod started thread discussing the entire Discowookie/Marc Moser situation, started by a mod and then as "your so bad" blame free as possible responded to by the people involved. Just get it out in the open and acknowledged what was done wrong and right in the situation, and how it will NEVER happen again including the steps (partially listed out at the top) to avoid it.

As many threads that have been started about the situation, I don't think we need another one. Honestly, anyone could gain the trust of the community over time and then turn to evil and there's not a thing I or anyone else could do about it. If everything was open and public for all to see, it would be different, but because there are private deals between PM's and email's going on, unless it was posted on the board, there'd be no way to stop something from happening before it actually happened. Obviously, everyone needs to be careful about who they trust and deal with, but some of that has to come from common sense.

As for people getting upset about send ins/signings done by other individuals...if its a larger scale signing that could have some issues, maybe it should be discussed with the moderator and have a thread for it pegged to the top until its completed and the vast majority of people have their stuff back, then can be unpegged and let slide down as it winds down...that way people can feel updated on what is going on, and also less panicked if something slows down/causes issues...Also maybe what all goes into a "mail my valuable stuff through the mail" type of signing...that issues can arise that are really part/parcel with the risk associated with HOSTING/PARTICIPATING in one of these signings. Along with that, the expectations of both the buyers and the Sellers in something like a send away signing specifically.

You might be on to something in regards to private signings from individuals or convention assistance on a large scale. I'm happy to facilitate a thread like that on a case by case basis which would indeed hold people accountable for all the money and items they accept from other members.

 

[Chris Wyman]

I fully expect you to get rid of me.

I hope that doesn't happen, if it does, this can no longer be called a forum anymore, because it no longer will be.

I'm sorry, but this is the biggest issue to hit this hobby, (and not whether someone answers a PM in time) and no one in a leadership position has taken a firm stance, one way or the other. As a fan and follower of this forum, I ask for leadership to take a stand. You talk about giving respect, well, as someone who knows many who have been hurt, defrauded, and no longer can call this place a home, I ask for respect to be given us and those affected.

Discowookie sold fakes here. The fact that he is no longer active shouldn't matter. If its only current members that will be posted in some list, that will make them stop posting and selling here, great, what then...their name comes off the list because they're no longer active?

Please understand I do not mean to come off rude, or disrespectful, but this is an unbelievably serious issue, and I really feel that leadership needs to address this, not censor it, and not kick members out for sharing an opinion. And apologies if this is not the thread to bring it all up in, I just really feel that it needs to be addressed before other rules. Thanks for your time and attention.

That is not happening, this is a forum and will remain a forum.

The communication issue is absolutely huge right now as this is what is currently going on and that is the reason this new rule was put in place. As always, what wasn't about Marc has been turned into all about Marc. That is another issue entirely. Please see my other posts above regarding that.

As for people being on a list, just out of curiosity, should we go back to the beginning of the forum and check for anyone who has ever caused trouble or slighted another member by selling fakes, forging signatures, stealing money, etc.? Obviously, if someone was put on a bad seller/trader list, they wouldn't come off once they were gone from the boards. I just wonder who, if anyone, else the community would want posted in this list.

I don't consider your post to be rude or disrespectful. You laid out your concerns in a very clear and well written manner.

 

[Chris Wyman]

I hate to say this Zham, but there are bad guys that have posted above. Not necessarily for selling fakes or taking peoples money, but more for their deceitful two-faced ways.

As for The King, you are obviously someone who has created an account to slate people because you dont have the [censored] to use you real account. Again being deceitful and two-faced, so using your normal account you can continue to kiss [censored]!

As stated above, this was a sock account and this user has been removed.

 

[Chris Wyman]

This board is not even close to what it once was. I personally don't like talking auto's here anymore. There are a few guys a really like talking to (Geno, Clinton, Sithcalls, Bendu, Neilme) but for the most part people just complain. The MOD's are a bit drunk with power.

No, the autograph board is not what it once was. I'm hoping to rectify that problem with the help of everyone here.

Now, would you be referring to all of the mods on Rebelscum in general or is that just directed toward myself? I'm sorry, but no one has ever even hinted anything like that to me, so I'm happy to discuss that with you off the boards. The General Autograph Forum Rules thread is not the place for that.

 

[Chris Wyman]

Discowookie is still a member here, so he should be on the list:

http://threads.rebelscum.com/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=24497&Number=4314509&Board=UBB49&what=showflat&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

I thought he was banned?

WOW. Thats crazy.

That account and IP address were banned and are no longer active or accessible.

 

[Chris Wyman]

He was never banned, there has never been an official word from a mod on any of it. He just went quiet when the doubts were raised. As the evidence mounted up the silences continued.

Personally I am sick of hearing about it, at this point people believe what they believe and nothing will change that. BUT, it is clear from the way it keeps coming up that a lot of people on the board still want closure on the issue. For whatever reason, it looks like that is not going to happen on this forum.

In which case, we have to move on, discontented maybe, but it is the only way. If questionable graphs come up, question them. As for a warning thread about bad sellers, if it can't include all the bad sellers is there really a point?

Again, that account and IP address were banned. It's not always announced when a member has been banned.

 

[Chris Wyman]

I really hope the new rule didn't come because of Graham, who explained the whole situation and I'm glad he didn't mail them before Xmas. He busted his butt off to help us, kudos to him. Just wondering if the rule was before Collectormania could any of us gotten help from him and that would just suck big time.

Definitely not the case.

 

[Chris Wyman]

I think if this rule had been in place before the Lawson gig I would now be banned from helping people as a result of the delays, yes.

That's because you're a bad, bad man.

No, Graham isn't a bad man and the past is in the past. This new rule is for anything going forward.

 

[Chris Wyman]

The MOD's are a bit drunk with power.

Well said, you have no idea how many people I have talked to that have muttered this exact phrase.

Again, first I'm hearing of this. You guys have to talk to me if there's an issue. Something that no one has reached out and done up to this point.

 

[Chris Wyman]

DId you notice "TheKing" is new? Maybe Disco's new handle?

Definitely not the case.

 

[_Lee_]

No, the autograph board is not what it once was. I'm hoping to rectify that problem with the help of everyone here...

Chris,

I feel its too late for that bud...and heres why.

Too many respected collectors have been driven away because of the mindless going on's around here.The time to make a stand came and passed without any attempt to defend both this forums integrity,and the members integrity at the same time-therefore leading to a situation that IMO cannot be rectified.This is the place(thanks to the members involved)that called DW out on his fakes,and instead of being championed,they are driven out of town.People should be looking at this place knowing that they helped stop one of the biggest auto scams in SW auto history.However some people still publicly defend DW,and as some said before it is so easy to see-even if they dont say it,people can understand by looking by whats written.Seriously some people need to wake up and smell the coffee,and realise that this place has been brought to its knees by this recent event.Honestly,this place will never be what it was IMO.And i dont think you will ever have the integrity again to attract such big collectors.


As you know bud,ive been here many years.Ive seen a lot happen here.Ive spent years in the vintage section,and seen some major scams there-and you know what

they all get together and fight these thieves.A recent prototype scam brought together the whole community,and some guys are even chipping in for legal costs to make sure the forger pays the price.They even started a webpage documenting his fakes,and the history behind them.Im talking about collectors who know thier stuff(as we have here in the auto section)and what they said didnt fall on deaf ears,whereas here it has.

Seriously,there are too many rules and stipulations being brought into play aswell.You are just driving a bigger wedge in an already diminishing community.

Lee

 

[Mr_Vader]

Lee, I have to respectfully disagree with your statements, and here's my reasons. I am being sincere in these statements, and not looking for an arguement:


"Too many respected collectors have been driven away because of the mindless going on's around here."

Who are they? Lets list them. Lets ask them personally why they left and see what can change to bring them back. Further speculation, should they come back? Did they help the community or did they try to start an online business?


"The time to make a stand came and passed without any attempt to defend both this forums integrity,and the members integrity at the same time-therefore leading to a situation that IMO cannot be rectified.This is the place(thanks to the members involved)that called DW out on his fakes,and instead of being championed,they are driven out of town."

Again, who are these people? Pete was the most active in the accusations and he's still posting, and he's been championed over and over again. Not a dig against him, just plain fact. People who have a counter opinion are the ones who have been driven out sir, I can't believe I'm the only one that sees that. There is a whole thread on the DW Fords, it explains what to look for and what to avoid. I find that most people that won't let this go are people who weren't personally affected by it (again, most, not all). If people are still looking for help they should be given information to help them in the long run.


"People should be looking at this place knowing that they helped stop one of the biggest auto scams in SW auto history.However some people still publicly defend DW,and as some said before it is so easy to see-even if they dont say it,people can understand by looking by whats written.Seriously some people need to wake up and smell the coffee,and realize that this place has been brought to its knees by this recent event.Honestly,this place will never be what it was IMO.And i dont think you will ever have the integrity again to attract such big collectors."

Again, lets be pro-active about this instead of beating it to death. What can change, what needs to change to help the mood of the forum? How about the sarcasm, how about the being spoken down to? Lets work collectively and decide on some rules. In my opinion, Chris is trying to do that by putting limits/rules into place. If you don't agree with the above rule, lets suggest a change and let us ALL discuss it.


"As you know bud,ive been here many years.Ive seen a lot happen here.Ive spent years in the vintage section,and seen some major scams there-and you know what they all get together and fight these thieves.A recent prototype scam brought together the whole community,and some guys are even chipping in for legal costs to make sure the forger pays the price.They even started a webpage documenting his fakes,and the history behind them.Im talking about collectors who know thier stuff(as we have here in the auto section)and what they said didnt fall on deaf ears,whereas here it has."

I've seen the vintage section, and I can't believe the hostility in there sometimes. But for the vintage section, forgeries can be based in fact, hard evidence, that can be shared with the community calmly. Autographs is a different animal all together, if its not an official signing or evidence provided, sadly it is open to interpretations. Opinions on forgeries are in fact opinions, from the most difficult to the most obvious. What I've found from when I joined is that discussions on what is real and what isn't aren't discussions at all, they're lessons, someone telling us if something is "real" or "fake." If someone counters a popular opinion, they are viciously "attacked" (as much as one can attack on a Star Wars forum). People are wrong sometimes, thats why its important to get many opinions, especially when large sums of money are at stake. Sadly, PayPal has no idea who "***** on Rebelscum" is, and their opinion will not help you if you want your money back. If we are to be pro-active here, lets create some stickies on what to do if you do believe you've been "taken" on a graph, and follow some steps that people have done in the past and they know work.


"Seriously,there are too many rules and stipulations being brought into play aswell.You are just driving a bigger wedge in an already diminishing community."

Again, whats the alternative, no rules? Hold nobody accountable? Will that help? Some of us can't let go of the past, some relationships can not be mended, but the group needs to move on. If I'm reading Chris correctly, thats what he wants as well, with the help of the community. If we all want it to be good again, but what steps should be taken and lets figure them out together. Everyone is playing on each others emotion, everyone is getting nasty (I'm just as guilty here as most) and everyone is getting frustrated and paranoid. We all miss the old board, lets get it back there, and if means some of us must move on to do that, than I think some of us should do just that.

 

[Chris Wyman]

No, the autograph board is not what it once was. I'm hoping to rectify that problem with the help of everyone here...

Chris,

I feel its too late for that bud...and heres why.

Too many respected collectors have been driven away because of the mindless going on's around here.The time to make a stand came and passed without any attempt to defend both this forums integrity,and the members integrity at the same time-therefore leading to a situation that IMO cannot be rectified.This is the place(thanks to the members involved)that called DW out on his fakes,and instead of being championed,they are driven out of town.People should be looking at this place knowing that they helped stop one of the biggest auto scams in SW auto history.However some people still publicly defend DW,and as some said before it is so easy to see-even if they dont say it,people can understand by looking by whats written.Seriously some people need to wake up and smell the coffee,and realise that this place has been brought to its knees by this recent event.Honestly,this place will never be what it was IMO.And i dont think you will ever have the integrity again to attract such big collectors.


As you know bud,ive been here many years.Ive seen a lot happen here.Ive spent years in the vintage section,and seen some major scams there-and you know what

they all get together and fight these thieves.A recent prototype scam brought together the whole community,and some guys are even chipping in for legal costs to make sure the forger pays the price.They even started a webpage documenting his fakes,and the history behind them.Im talking about collectors who know thier stuff(as we have here in the auto section)and what they said didnt fall on deaf ears,whereas here it has.

Seriously,there are too many rules and stipulations being brought into play aswell.You are just driving a bigger wedge in an already diminishing community.

Lee

It's not too late at all, but it's absolutely not going to happen overnight either.

I know all about the vintage section and what has gone on and continues to go on.

I'm sorry you feel that the eight rules at the top of this thread are too much, but they are there for good reason.

 

[swsigsuk]

Good responses Chris. I'm now satisfied that the new rule was not directly aimed at me or a knee-jerk reaction to any one situation. I'm glad to hear that if you did have an issue with anything I was doing you would have contacted me to discuss it. I would also like to apologise if anything I said was overly defensive, hostile or sarcastic.

I was not aware the DW account had been banned. Really that, coupled with the abundance of info about him and the general autograph knowledge we have here should be enough in terms of this forum.

Lee, while I agree with a couple of your points, some of it comes across as doom-mongering. Nobody is going to just say 'you're right, this place is no good any more' and pack up the autograph forum. Those of us still here have to try and take a positive step forward to bringing this place back to what it was. If that happens I see no reason why others would not return, nobody wants to miss out on a good thing.

I agree with Mr_Vader that this should be a community process of working out what steps should be taken. That way people can feel some sense of ownership of the community again, rather than feeling rules are coming down from on high in a seemingly arbitrary fashion, where some issues are not addressed while others are.

I would like to make a couple of suggestions on this front for discussion. I'm not going to throw any toys out of the pram if people don't like them, so please feel free to discuss them openly. Also PLEASE everyone contribute your own ideas.

- Rather than a bad seller thread and all the issues that entails, how about an authentication advice thread pinned at the top? Pete wrote a very good guide to authenticating Ford graphs a while back, and I'm sure between us we could put together something decent on all the main signers, what we look for etc. Such a thread would be a one stop shop for people wanting to learn, and could also significantly reduce the number of times the more experienced members have to explain this stuff to individual members. Of course the counter argument is that it would be a one stop shop for forgers wanting to learn too, but really I think that is a risk that has to be taken if we want to increase the knowledge base among collectors.

- A clear process for dealing with arising problems, rather than a lot of talk and no real communication. This is illustrated in the above discussion; Chris was clearly not aware of discontent towards his moderation, while it has obviously been a point of discussion among members here. Likewise, he was aware of more issues with communication than we were, which has lead to a misinterpretation of the new rules as being personally directed. Basically, I think there needs to be more communication both from and to Chris, at earlier stages, rather than things festering to a point where everyone has hardened views possibly based on misunderstandings. For instance, a simple statement that DW had been banned, made months ago, would have gone a long way towards helping people move on in my opinion and I'm sure Chris would have liked to hear constructive comments about his moderation as soon as people had concerns.

- With regards to the new rules, I would like a bit more clarification on how exactly they will work. No timescale is given in the rule itself, nor is it explained how things will be verified. I have had people claim to have sent me pms that I have never received. I have also had ambiguous messages that I felt did not need a reply, only to later get an angry pm demanding one. My suggestion would be, raise the issue with Chris, Chris pms or otherwise contacts the non-communicator explaining the situation and asking for a response in a set time period. If a read-receipt for that pm is received and no communication has been forthcoming after the agreed time period (taken from the date of the read receipt), by all means enforce the rule. You know the person has read it, they know they need to deal with it by say 1 week from the day they saw that communication, if they ignore that there is a clear rule breech nobody can argue about.

Another point I would make on these rules is that there are really two problems here and it is important they don't get lumped in together. On the one hand there are people who perhaps take on more than they can deal with or who have personal issues arise which means they can't deliver to an agreed schedule and perhaps go off radar. Banning these people from helping forever would IMO be a bit harsh, as they have shown willing to try and help and were perhaps under prepared or unlucky. People should be given a chance to learn from mistakes, and freak misfortunes should be treated as just that. In these cases I would suggest a temporary ban from offering new signings until all old issues are sorted, and a scaling down of future signings, at least for a while. Again, communication at every step. That would seem to me a better way than losing a member who has shown willing to help.

On the other hand there are people (thankfully rare) who simply take money and never deliver the service they have been paid for. These are obviously a bigger issue than just communication and should be dealt with as such with harsher measures.

- I also quite like the idea of threads dealing with large scale signings being pinned, although I prefer the idea of them having their own index thread to prevent a mass of pinned stuff up top. It would certainly save me some time finding threads. I can see some people arguing however that this would be tantamount to some signings being endorsed/advertised while others were not. Discussion definitely needed.

Thoughts please from everyone, whatever your level of collecting. If you're a member here this discussion is for you. It would be really good to see some new names joining in, perhaps along with some of the old names who I know still read these boards even if they don't write much any more.

Think positive folks.

Graham

 

[Aluminum_Falcon]

I wasnt going to reply to this thread as im hardly one of the experts on these boards but i do like Graham's(Great name btw

) idea of having authenticating topics, most of the graphs i buy are OPIX so i know im getting the real thing but it does sometimes limit what i can get in my collection so something like that would be a great step to educating myself and others.

Like others have said communication is the key to keeping this forum the great place it is. I cant say ive had any bad experiences on these boards as of yet, everyone ive dealt with or talked to have been nothing but friendly and helpful. I understand that sometimes due to unforeseen circumstances things may be delayed, a quick PM or post in the forum would go a long way to keeping the people involved up to date.

Just my two cents,

the OTHER Graham

 

[Bendu]

Chris you said... I will also add that for a long time, it was an opinion war going back and forth. A handful of people felt one way and a handful of people felt the other way. I was not going to step in as if I was the deciding factor in such a big situation. I do not call myself an autograph authenticator because I am most certainly not. There are a few people who do and when you've got a few of the more prominent authenticators in the business arguing back and forth and disagreeing about certain pieces, that's one tough call to make. I suppose I could have flipped a coin...but that wouldn't have solved anything.

Let's clarify one thing here, because even with the above statement, you are dancing around this subject as if there is a chance that items from discowookie are real. That is not the case, at least a dozen longtime collectors have all figured this out. A major name in the authentication business along with his friends and people he works with are in the process of having Moser fakes removed from their items, or getting replacement items for those bad pieces. They don't post here anymore....maybe it's because they don't want to be looked down upon as being fooled by a forger? I can't say for sure, but every single name in this hobby that has earned any respect at all from their fellow collectors, have agreed that the items from Moser are fake.

I certainly did not even want to comment on this again, as I have tried for months to get these guys to post their final outcomes of their deals with Marc....no luck.
I think this is the type of statement this group is looking for, you may not feel it is your place to say it out loud, but the facts remain.

 

[Chris Wyman]

If I'm reading Chris correctly, thats what he wants as well, with the help of the community. If we all want it to be good again, but what steps should be taken and lets figure them out together. Everyone is playing on each others emotion, everyone is getting nasty (I'm just as guilty here as most) and everyone is getting frustrated and paranoid. We all miss the old board, lets get it back there, and if means some of us must move on to do that, than I think some of us should do just that.

You are correct, Rob. I do wish to move on from all the negativity and bad blood and get this place back to the fun and enjoyable section it's been so well known for. That's not going to happen unless everyone is on the same page.

I don't want to see anyone just leave, but everyone has to play by the rules. If they can't, this is simply not the place for them. Harsh words, certainly, but also necessary.

 

[Chris Wyman]

Good responses Chris. I'm now satisfied that the new rule was not directly aimed at me or a knee-jerk reaction to any one situation. I'm glad to hear that if you did have an issue with anything I was doing you would have contacted me to discuss it. I would also like to apologise if anything I said was overly defensive, hostile or sarcastic.

Thanks Graham. I think everyone has been a little heated over the past year, but talking things out is definitely the way to go.

Those of us still here have to try and take a positive step forward to bringing this place back to what it was. If that happens I see no reason why others would not return, nobody wants to miss out on a good thing.

Agreed. There's no reason why we all can't work together to build things back up.

I agree with Mr_Vader that this should be a community process of working out what steps should be taken. That way people can feel some sense of ownership of the community again, rather than feeling rules are coming down from on high in a seemingly arbitrary fashion, where some issues are not addressed while others are.

I'm happy to listen to ideas and figure out the best course of action as a community.

- Rather than a bad seller thread and all the issues that entails, how about an authentication advice thread pinned at the top? Pete wrote a very good guide to authenticating Ford graphs a while back, and I'm sure between us we could put together something decent on all the main signers, what we look for etc. Such a thread would be a one stop shop for people wanting to learn, and could also significantly reduce the number of times the more experienced members have to explain this stuff to individual members.

I like this idea. Having grouped examples of older and current autographs for the bigger names would be most beneficial to new collectors and seasoned veterans alike.

- With regards to the new rules, I would like a bit more clarification on how exactly they will work. No timescale is given in the rule itself, nor is it explained how things will be verified. I have had people claim to have sent me pms that I have never received. I have also had ambiguous messages that I felt did not need a reply, only to later get an angry pm demanding one. My suggestion would be, raise the issue with Chris, Chris pms or otherwise contacts the non-communicator explaining the situation and asking for a response in a set time period. If a read-receipt for that pm is received and no communication has been forthcoming after the agreed time period (taken from the date of the read receipt), by all means enforce the rule. You know the person has read it, they know they need to deal with it by say 1 week from the day they saw that communication, if they ignore that there is a clear rule breech nobody can argue about.

One thing that even I have to remind myself of at times is that not everyone is on their computer for 16 hours a day like I am. What's a reasonable amount of time to wait for a reply when someone has your money and your items? Three days? One week? I'm been assisting members with this very issue for years now and very rarely do I not hear back from both parties involved to resolve the issue. A read receipt is always used and it's a great way to know what's going on with someone. If a member has accepted money and/or items from anyone and they read the message and do not respond within 48 hours, I send an email. If that goes without being responded to, one final message is sent both via PM and email. If by this time, no response has been given, the user could be banned from the site, no longer allowed to participate on the boards. Now, I will say that at times, this can be less cut and dry then I just mentioned above. I never want to keep someone from being able to contact the person they owe money to or are holding items from. If they can't log into their account, that might be their justification for just keeping everything and putting it out of their mind. With that said, there is a bit of a grace period in certain instances when a large sum of money or items are involved. If this particular member has a history of this sort of thing, which could be tracked in their feedback thread, there will be a lot less forgiveness.

Another point I would make on these rules is that there are really two problems here and it is important they don't get lumped in together. On the one hand there are people who perhaps take on more than they can deal with or who have personal issues arise which means they can't deliver to an agreed schedule and perhaps go off radar. Banning these people from helping forever would IMO be a bit harsh, as they have shown willing to try and help and were perhaps under prepared or unlucky. People should be given a chance to learn from mistakes, and freak misfortunes should be treated as just that. In these cases I would suggest a temporary ban from offering new signings until all old issues are sorted, and a scaling down of future signings, at least for a while. Again, communication at every step. That would seem to me a better way than losing a member who has shown willing to help.

Another good point. Just because someone bit off more than they could chew, does not merit the banning of their account. If a situation was to occur where something went horribly wrong, as long as this person is keeping in constant communication with those involved and myself, we can work it out. The problem comes in when communication stops.

On the other hand there are people (thankfully rare) who simply take money and never deliver the service they have been paid for. These are obviously a bigger issue than just communication and should be dealt with as such with harsher measures.

Thankfully rare indeed. This doesn't happen very often.

- I also quite like the idea of threads dealing with large scale signings being pinned, although I prefer the idea of them having their own index thread to prevent a mass of pinned stuff up top. It would certainly save me some time finding threads. I can see some people arguing however that this would be tantamount to some signings being endorsed/advertised while others were not. Discussion definitely needed.

I know we've done this before, but I'll said it again for those who might not have been around when this issue first arose a while back. This particular message board cannot advertise unofficial or unlicensed signings or companies. Pinning a thread to the top of the board would be considered advertising. If various members start threads about specific private signings, that's one thing, but I feel like there are too many people that would see that as showing favoritism if some were included and some were not.

 

[grant_sheehan100]

The responsibility to make this forum what it was does not just reside with an individual but with the collective. We must all bear the responsibility of reinvigorating and enthusing this board with the excitement and pleasure that I joined it for.

Having said that there is a responsibility for the moderators, to communicate. If a member has behaved in an unacceptable way and they are banned then this must be stated, leaving people to speculate over their situation only fuels fires of discontent.

Chris is correct to say that we all need to be on the same page. The DW issue has happened, it was awful and should never be forgotten as it serves as a reminder of caution, but it happened, no amount of despair will change it. Dwelling on it has done nobody any favours. Lessons need to be learned, changes implemented and the whole group can then move forward. It is not only tedious but saddening to see people complaining or moaning about the way things are done without actually providing anything constructive to the debate. If people have suggestions then give them.

I think Graham's idea of a thread with tips of what to look for is a stirling idea. The more people that can tell how to spot fakes will only help the group and make it stronger for knowing what to look for. Pete's thread about Ford was welcomed by everybody, we could do with more threads like this. Having a thread about banned members, in my opinion, will not help people get over issues like DW as they will constantly be present in the forum in this kind of threa where bad feelings can fester.

Those who offer send-ins and private signings should be allowed to do so freely regardless of their experience to allow us the best opportunities for such things. In the event of a mess up then certainly if done deliberately or callously then these members should be banned. having said that signers can always cancel, postal workers go on strike etc and if this happens and is communicated then I see no problem. There are several members of this board like Graham and Mark who have brought the auto collecting comunity some of the best send ins and private signings in SW graphing history. It would be a lamentable shame to see any of this sort of facility lost.

This forum still has a weighty presence in the SW collecting community and I am a proud member of this group. I look forward immensely to seeing how this group moves forward to an even better future.

 

[Chris Wyman]

Let's clarify one thing here, because even with the above statement, you are dancing around this subject as if there is a chance that items from discowookie are real. That is not the case, at least a dozen longtime collectors have all figured this out. A major name in the authentication business along with his friends and people he works with are in the process of having Moser fakes removed from their items, or getting replacement items for those bad pieces. They don't post here anymore....maybe it's because they don't want to be looked down upon as being fooled by a forger? I can't say for sure, but every single name in this hobby that has earned any respect at all from their fellow collectors, have agreed that the items from Moser are fake.

I certainly did not even want to comment on this again, as I have tried for months to get these guys to post their final outcomes of their deals with Marc....no luck.
I think this is the type of statement this group is looking for, you may not feel it is your place to say it out loud, but the facts remain.

Pete, the problem here is that there are real items from Marc out there. To say that all his stuff is fake is just not accurate and that's something that's been discussed over and over again. This is where I have to step back as I am not an authenticator. I'm not going to decide that certain items are real and certain items are fake for the whole board. If you or anyone else is looking for me to make such a statement, it's not going to happen and if that's considered dancing around the issue, then so be it.

I am well aware of the people involved who are having things removed and replaced. It's their call whether they want to make that stuff public or not, so until they do, there isn't much else to say on the matter.

 

[Abstractharmony]

This forum still has a weighty presence in the SW collecting community and I am a proud member of this group. I look forward immensely to seeing how this group moves forward to an even better future.

Can I get an Amen brother!!!!!

 

[sithmasterjedi]

First I want to say that this forum is responsible for my autograph addiction and I hate you all for that!

But seriously, for the most part, everybody in this section has been very nice, offered help and without a doubt saved me money. From helping to spot fakes (I am getting better) to people like Graham (there are many) who handle irreplaceable items just so we can add one more signature. The amount of items as well as their value would most likely put me on a diet of tums and alka-seltzer until they were all shipped back. All of you that help, amaze me!

Now with regard to current events, there will always be somebody that will try to ruin a good thing. We had a really good thing going here and somebody saw that as an opportunity. Learn from it, try to fix it, and try to stop it from happening again.

Chris has added some rules to try to help us all. I don't see anything wrong with any of the rules he posted.

I love this forum and I feel like we can use this to strengthen this community instead of breaking it.

 

[starwarsgrapher]

Chris you said... I will also add that for a long time, it was an opinion war going back and forth. A handful of people felt one way and a handful of people felt the other way. I was not going to step in as if I was the deciding factor in such a big situation. I do not call myself an autograph authenticator because I am most certainly not. There are a few people who do and when you've got a few of the more prominent authenticators in the business arguing back and forth and disagreeing about certain pieces, that's one tough call to make. I suppose I could have flipped a coin...but that wouldn't have solved anything.

Let's clarify one thing here, because even with the above statement, you are dancing around this subject as if there is a chance that items from discowookie are real. That is not the case, at least a dozen longtime collectors have all figured this out. A major name in the authentication business along with his friends and people he works with are in the process of having Moser fakes removed from their items, or getting replacement items for those bad pieces. They don't post here anymore....maybe it's because they don't want to be looked down upon as being fooled by a forger? I can't say for sure, but every single name in this hobby that has earned any respect at all from their fellow collectors, have agreed that the items from Moser are fake.

I certainly did not even want to comment on this again, as I have tried for months to get these guys to post their final outcomes of their deals with Marc....no luck.
I think this is the type of statement this group is looking for, you may not feel it is your place to say it out loud, but the facts remain.

I have been asked by plenty of people here to speak out...and yes it's time. Pete originally called this to attention quite some time ago. It's good he did. I certainly didn't believe it at first but I took it under consideration and took my time to piece the puzzle together.

There were signs all over the place. The Ford meetings, the crazy things that I was hearing but Discowookie (moser) backed it up pretty good. Then came the call in April of 2010 that he could get me Ford on some of my posters. I unfortunately still needed Ford on a number of posters so I gave him some of better pieces. I drove them up to his house, about 60 miles north of me here in California and I trusted him. This was a guy that I had hung out with, shared meals with, watched movies with, talked on the phone with, hung out with....you get the point. Within five days my posters were signed all with "Han Solo" inscriptions. That was April 2010. Something kinda hit me there, the inscription didn't look like Ford's writing. I have pieces personalized by Ford and signed by him and these didn't jive. I let that sit and just put it to the side...and then things kept adding up wrong with him. Time and time again I would catch him in lies and time and time again his stories didn't make much sense.

In October of 2010 I met Harrison Ford (for about the 25th time). This time was different. I paid to get into an event in San Diego, also attended by my friend A.J. and Marc. We all drove together. That night I finally was able to put it all together...the puzzle was basically completed. I saw the look on Ford's face when Marc tried to explain who he was and more importantly I saw how Ford acted towards Marc. This was the same guy who used to tell me "Harrison really liked me and had a good time during our lunch and he wants to do this again", and this one.."harrison was really comfortable with me". Then I see them face to face and there is nothing.

I knew for sure at that point that I had gotten taken too. After many hours of thinking it through and hearing the stories from my friend Greg who trusted marc with his Mark Hamill multi-signed pieces only to see them come back destroyed with bogus Hamill signatures...and then seeing the pieces that Graham had come back from marc...more Hamill's and bad Rick Bakers. That was on top of the bad McQuarries and Mayhews and the puzzle was finished.

I broke off ties with Marc in late October. I have three posters that were absolutely destroyed by him. One of them signed by over 180 people one of them signed by Alec Guinness.

He has no compassion, he has no moral compass. He's a malicous person that stopped at nothing to feed his greed for more and more and more.

He has crushed alot of people on these boards. No doubt. Everyone here should realize that he's just a bad person. He has a track record with deciet and fraud and he's done the same thing with the prop community.

Pete started this off, I commend him for it. And now everyone needs to move on and regroup and learn from it. I got burned! It happens, i'm not happy about it but i've moved on. I've met Harrison Ford in person at least 25 times. I have gotten him all over the country, at premiers, movie sets, talk shows, banquets...etc. But I got taken, I trusted a guy that turned out to be a scumbag.

I hope you have all learned too, Pete was right about this guy, it just takes others time to learn on their own...like I did.

Lata.

 

[swsigsuk]

This rule is not open for discussion or debate, so this thread will be locked and stuck to the top of the board where everyone can read it.

That's not going to happen unless everyone is on the same page.
Everyone has to play by the rules. If they can't, this is simply not the place for them. Harsh words, certainly, but also necessary.

Chris, when people refer to moderators being 'drunk with power' it is this sort of language they are talking about. However it is meant, to some it comes accross as overly authoritative and threatening and is not going to achieve much other than turning people off this place.


Regarding your posts om the new rules:

The disadvantage of not following this rule: You will not be allowed to sell or trade items, you will not be allowed to offer help at shows, you will not be allowed to post private signings and any thread posted will be removed.

If by this time, no response has been given, the user could be banned from the site, no longer allowed to participate on the boards.

So is the punishment banning from handling member's money/items or a total ban from the site?? The goalposts seem to be moving pretty rapidly here.

Define reasonable amount of time?
Also, what are the penalties for not responding? Its not as if you can boot the seller/helper because that screws over the buyer/customer.

A reasonable amount of time would be no more than a week. Like I mentioned, real life can and will get in the way, but no one is forcing anyone to assist with autographs here.

- With regards to the new rules, I would like a bit more clarification on how exactly they will work.

One thing that even I have to remind myself of at times is that not everyone is on their computer for 16 hours a day like I am.What's a reasonable amount of time to wait for a reply when someone has your money and your items? Three days? One week? I'm been assisting members with this very issue for years now and very rarely do I not hear back from both parties involved to resolve the issue. A read receipt is always used and it's a great way to know what's going on with someone. If a member has accepted money and/or items from anyone and they read the message and do not respond within 48 hours, I send an email. If that goes without being responded to, one final message is sent both via PM and email. If by this time, no response has been given, the user could be banned from the site, no longer allowed to participate on the boards.

Just because someone bit off more than they could chew, does not merit the banning of their account. If a situation was to occur where something went horribly wrong, as long as this person is keeping in constant communication with those involved and myself, we can work it out. The problem comes in when communication stops.

We still don't have a clear answer here. Is it 3 days, 1 week, 48 hours? All I'm trying to establish is if I were to run another send-in what parameters would I be being forced to operate under. As you yourself have said, people go on holiday (sometimes with little notice in these days of cheap internet deals), broadband lines go down etc. I have both of these things happen to me in the past 12 months, keeping me offline for over a week each time. Are you saying that I could come back to find my account banned? Because frankly that is going to put me and an awful lot of others off the idea of running any sort of help service.

I would also add that if you have been dealing with this very issue for years, why is it suddenly necessary to have a rule and the threat of bans banded about?

As for people getting upset about send ins/signings done by other individuals...if its a larger scale signing that could have some issues, maybe it should be discussed with the moderator and have a thread for it pegged to the top until its completed and the vast majority of people have their stuff back, then can be unpegged and let slide down as it winds down...

You might be on to something in regards to private signings from individuals or convention assistance on a large scale. I'm happy to facilitate a thread like that on a case by case basis which would indeed hold people accountable for all the money and items they accept from other members.

- I also quite like the idea of threads dealing with large scale signings being pinned, although I prefer the idea of them having their own index thread to prevent a mass of pinned stuff up top.

I know we've done this before, but I'll said it again for those who might not have been around when this issue first arose a while back. This particular message board cannot advertise unofficial or unlicensed signings or companies. Pinning a thread to the top of the board would be considered advertising. If various members start threads about specific private signings, that's one thing, but I feel like there are too many people that would see that as showing favoritism if some were included and some were not.

This is pretty inconsistent information. Either zhamlau is onto something, or it is an impossibility that has been gone over before.

You're right to ask that members communicate clearly with other members, but we also have a right to ask for that clarity of communication from you. In that spirit, can I add a 'Questions for Chris Wyman thread' to my list of suggestions for this board, so as we don't have this cluttering up your rules thread.

 

[zhamlau]

Chris you said... I will also add that for a long time, it was an opinion war going back and forth. A handful of people felt one way and a handful of people felt the other way. I was not going to step in as if I was the deciding factor in such a big situation. I do not call myself an autograph authenticator because I am most certainly not. There are a few people who do and when you've got a few of the more prominent authenticators in the business arguing back and forth and disagreeing about certain pieces, that's one tough call to make. I suppose I could have flipped a coin...but that wouldn't have solved anything.

Let's clarify one thing here, because even with the above statement, you are dancing around this subject as if there is a chance that items from discowookie are real. That is not the case, at least a dozen longtime collectors have all figured this out. A major name in the authentication business along with his friends and people he works with are in the process of having Moser fakes removed from their items, or getting replacement items for those bad pieces. They don't post here anymore....maybe it's because they don't want to be looked down upon as being fooled by a forger? I can't say for sure, but every single name in this hobby that has earned any respect at all from their fellow collectors, have agreed that the items from Moser are fake.

I certainly did not even want to comment on this again, as I have tried for months to get these guys to post their final outcomes of their deals with Marc....no luck.
I think this is the type of statement this group is looking for, you may not feel it is your place to say it out loud, but the facts remain.

I have been asked by plenty of people here to speak out...and yes it's time. Pete originally called this to attention quite some time ago. It's good he did. I certainly didn't believe it at first but I took it under consideration and took my time to piece the puzzle together.

There were signs all over the place. The Ford meetings, the crazy things that I was hearing but Discowookie (moser) backed it up pretty good. Then came the call in April of 2010 that he could get me Ford on some of my posters. I unfortunately still needed Ford on a number of posters so I gave him some of better pieces. I drove them up to his house, about 60 miles north of me here in California and I trusted him. This was a guy that I had hung out with, shared meals with, watched movies with, talked on the phone with, hung out with....you get the point. Within five days my posters were signed all with "Han Solo" inscriptions. That was April 2010. Something kinda hit me there, the inscription didn't look like Ford's writing. I have pieces personalized by Ford and signed by him and these didn't jive. I let that sit and just put it to the side...and then things kept adding up wrong with him. Time and time again I would catch him in lies and time and time again his stories didn't make much sense.

In October of 2010 I met Harrison Ford (for about the 25th time). This time was different. I paid to get into an event in San Diego, also attended by my friend A.J. and Marc. We all drove together. That night I finally was able to put it all together...the puzzle was basically completed. I saw the look on Ford's face when Marc tried to explain who he was and more importantly I saw how Ford acted towards Marc. This was the same guy who used to tell me "Harrison really liked me and had a good time during our lunch and he wants to do this again", and this one.."harrison was really comfortable with me". Then I see them face to face and there is nothing.

I knew for sure at that point that I had gotten taken too. After many hours of thinking it through and hearing the stories from my friend Greg who trusted marc with his Mark Hamill multi-signed pieces only to see them come back destroyed with bogus Hamill signatures...and then seeing the pieces that Graham had come back from marc...more Hamill's and bad Rick Bakers. That was on top of the bad McQuarries and Mayhews and the puzzle was finished.

I broke off ties with Marc in late October. I have three posters that were absolutely destroyed by him. One of them signed by over 180 people one of them signed by Alec Guinness.

He has no compassion, he has no moral compass. He's a malicous person that stopped at nothing to feed his greed for more and more and more.

He has crushed alot of people on these boards. No doubt. Everyone here should realize that he's just a bad person. He has a track record with deciet and fraud and he's done the same thing with the prop community.

Pete started this off, I commend him for it. And now everyone needs to move on and regroup and learn from it. I got burned! It happens, i'm not happy about it but i've moved on. I've met Harrison Ford in person at least 25 times. I have gotten him all over the country, at premiers, movie sets, talk shows, banquets...etc. But I got taken, I trusted a guy that turned out to be a scumbag.

I hope you have all learned too, Pete was right about this guy, it just takes others time to learn on their own...like I did.

Lata.

Great post...It really fleshes out the details and just gives a sense of how great marcs deceit really was.

 

[ClintonMills]

First of all, thanks for the post grapher. Hopefully, that post can put to rest the Marc issue once and for all. It is amazing that the guy had no boundaries in who he scammed.

Second of all, you make some great points Graham. Chris, I understand what you are trying to do. You are trying to encourage better communication in transactions, I understand that. However, I don't think there is any need to rush a decision on what needs to be done. Your penalties seem to be very inconsistent and I think it would help if you stepped back and gave it some more thought. Maybe ask for feedback from the community on what they believe is a sufficient timeline and what they believe would be a sufficient consequence of not adhering to that timeline.

 

[starwarsgrapher]

guys, i would also be remiss here if i didn't mention a good go between in derek maki. derek was pretty helpful in showing the ford pieces to harrison ford's office.

what came out of it was this and pete has posted this before on RS.

1. there was one face to face with ford & Moser. the ebay won luncheon.
2. there was a sitdown signing with addtional pieces at ford's office as many of you have seen the images.
3. there were ZERO drop off signings, as in moser saying, "i'll just drop this off at Harrison's office". that never happened. moser is not welcomed there, has never been welcomend there and Harrison's office has 100% confirmed that no other items have been dropped off since #2 (above).

again, derek helped out alot here and was a big part of this entire thing. sorry i forgot to mention that, it was a big part of the entire unraveling of disco

 

[Victor_Von_Doom]

Discowookie is still a member here, so he should be on the list:

http://threads.rebelscum.com/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=24497&Number=4314509&Board=UBB49&what=showflat&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

I thought he was banned?

WOW. Thats crazy.

That account and IP address were banned and are no longer active or accessible.

When exactly was DW banned? When I made that initial post, I checked DW's posts to see if he was banned (how your name changes from blue to gray), and it was still blue. Now its gray.

 

[Chris Wyman]

This rule is not open for discussion or debate, so this thread will be locked and stuck to the top of the board where everyone can read it.

That's not going to happen unless everyone is on the same page.
Everyone has to play by the rules. If they can't, this is simply not the place for them. Harsh words, certainly, but also necessary.

Chris, when people refer to moderators being 'drunk with power' it is this sort of language they are talking about. However it is meant, to some it comes across as overly authoritative and threatening and is not going to achieve much other than turning people off this place.

I understand that a statement like that might seem really over the top, but...if there's room left for other interpretations of this rule, questions arise and there are those who may try to bend the rule. Putting a statement like this out there is just that, making a very bold statement. In this particular instance, there is a new rule regarding communication that must be followed on this particular message board. If this rule or any other rule seem too much for someone, perhaps this isn't the place for that individual.

Regarding your posts om the new rules:

The disadvantage of not following this rule: You will not be allowed to sell or trade items, you will not be allowed to offer help at shows, you will not be allowed to post private signings and any thread posted will be removed.

If by this time, no response has been given, the user could be banned from the site, no longer allowed to participate on the boards.

So is the punishment banning from handling member's money/items or a total ban from the site?? The goalposts seem to be moving pretty rapidly here.

Define reasonable amount of time?
Also, what are the penalties for not responding? Its not as if you can boot the seller/helper because that screws over the buyer/customer.

A reasonable amount of time would be no more than a week. Like I mentioned, real life can and will get in the way, but no one is forcing anyone to assist with autographs here.

- With regards to the new rules, I would like a bit more clarification on how exactly they will work.

One thing that even I have to remind myself of at times is that not everyone is on their computer for 16 hours a day like I am. What's a reasonable amount of time to wait for a reply when someone has your money and your items? Three days? One week? I'm been assisting members with this very issue for years now and very rarely do I not hear back from both parties involved to resolve the issue. A read receipt is always used and it's a great way to know what's going on with someone. If a member has accepted money and/or items from anyone and they read the message and do not respond within 48 hours, I send an email. If that goes without being responded to, one final message is sent both via PM and email. If by this time, no response has been given, the user could be banned from the site, no longer allowed to participate on the boards.

Just because someone bit off more than they could chew, does not merit the banning of their account. If a situation was to occur where something went horribly wrong, as long as this person is keeping in constant communication with those involved and myself, we can work it out. The problem comes in when communication stops.

We still don't have a clear answer here. Is it 3 days, 1 week, 48 hours? All I'm trying to establish is if I were to run another send-in what parameters would I be being forced to operate under. As you yourself have said, people go on holiday (sometimes with little notice in these days of cheap internet deals), broadband lines go down etc. I have both of these things happen to me in the past 12 months, keeping me offline for over a week each time. Are you saying that I could come back to find my account banned? Because frankly that is going to put me and an awful lot of others off the idea of running any sort of help service.

I would also add that if you have been dealing with this very issue for years, why is it suddenly necessary to have a rule and the threat of bans banded about?

I must apologize for leaving out some crucial information in what I said there. I was trying to respond to these questions while in my office dealing with phone calls, meetings, people coming and going, etc. Kind of like I'm doing right now actually. (sigh)

If someone has accepted money and/or items from another member, they need to stay in constant contact with that person throughout the duration of the transaction. Not just through the initial setting up of the deal and until they have the money and items.

Did you receive my items?
Did you receive payment?
When exactly is this signing taking place?
When do you foresee my items being returned?
Will you be able to take photos of my item(s) being signed?
Did you get my last PM?

These are all questions I've seen in various help threads for conventions and private signings. I'm sure similar questions are asked in private messages as well. If the person handling the items is handling things correctly, these questions shouldn't even need to be asked. As someone who has handled massive send-ins and private signings, I make it a point to flood people with information. Give them too much information even. This keeps them in the know, makes them more at ease and completely removes any sort or communication issues. Having said that, I do understand that not everyone is able to respond that quickly and that much in their daily lives.

When I get a report of someone being ignored, I send a single private message with a read receipt to inquire what's up. If that message goes unanswered for 48 hours, I send an email. If both of these go unanswered for one week, one final message is sent at the end of that week stating that communication must be made. If this final try at a resolution is not successful and no response is received within 24 hours, the user's account can be banned. I say 'can be' and not 'will be' as there are certain circumstances that may require an account to be left open for a time. I will also add that if someone is posting answers on the board for all to see, that can be a form of communication, but if someone does send you a private message or email, take the two seconds to respond and just say you received it.

While I have been dealing with this issue of non-communication for years, it's only been recently that I have received a large amount of complaints about it in such a short amount of time. So much so, we have a new rule about it to hopefully avoid any further issues.

- I also quite like the idea of threads dealing with large scale signings being pinned, although I prefer the idea of them having their own index thread to prevent a mass of pinned stuff up top.

I know we've done this before, but I'll said it again for those who might not have been around when this issue first arose a while back. This particular message board cannot advertise unofficial or unlicensed signings or companies. Pinning a thread to the top of the board would be considered advertising. If various members start threads about specific private signings, that's one thing, but I feel like there are too many people that would see that as showing favoritism if some were included and some were not.

This is pretty inconsistent information. Either zhamlau is onto something, or it is an impossibility that has been gone over before.

You're right to ask that members communicate clearly with other members, but we also have a right to ask for that clarity of communication from you. In that spirit, can I add a 'Questions for Chris Wyman thread' to my list of suggestions for this board, so as we don't have this cluttering up your rules thread.

What is inconsistent about it? This is the reason you don't see threads for certain signings pinned to the top of the board. If it's for a non-licensed company, it won't be pinned. If it's an individual holding a private signing, that's a different story.

As for a questions thread, I'll let that be left up to a vote. If a majority of you want a thread dedicated to asking questions of me, I'm happy to do that.

 

[Chris Wyman]

Discowookie is still a member here, so he should be on the list:

http://threads.rebelscum.com/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=24497&Number=4314509&Board=UBB49&what=showflat&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

I thought he was banned?

WOW. Thats crazy.

That account and IP address were banned and are no longer active or accessible.

When exactly was DW banned? When I made that initial post, I checked DW's posts to see if he was banned (how your name changes from blue to gray), and it was still blue. Now its gray.

The ban occured last year. However, the name was not grayed out as that is a manual operation and not something that happens automatically. I simply did not do that until it was brought up the other day.

 

[probedroid66]

Discowookie is still a member here, so he should be on the list:

http://threads.rebelscum.com/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=24497&Number=4314509&Board=UBB49&what=showflat&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

I thought he was banned?

The same has gone on over in the vintage toys section where
a once respected member ripped people off but is now back
again its the main problem with this forum the scum are always protected

 

[Chris Wyman]

Discowookie is still a member here, so he should be on the list:

http://threads.rebelscum.com/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=24497&Number=4314509&Board=UBB49&what=showflat&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

I thought he was banned?

The same has gone on over in the vintage toys section where
a once respected member ripped people off but is now back
again its the main problem with this forum the scum are always protected

Actually, not the same thing at all. The person in question here hasn't been on Rebelscum since August of 2010 and is most certainly not back now.

 

[_Lee_]

Chris you said... I will also add that for a long time, it was an opinion war going back and forth. A handful of people felt one way and a handful of people felt the other way. I was not going to step in as if I was the deciding factor in such a big situation. I do not call myself an autograph authenticator because I am most certainly not. There are a few people who do and when you've got a few of the more prominent authenticators in the business arguing back and forth and disagreeing about certain pieces, that's one tough call to make. I suppose I could have flipped a coin...but that wouldn't have solved anything.

Let's clarify one thing here, because even with the above statement, you are dancing around this subject as if there is a chance that items from discowookie are real. That is not the case, at least a dozen longtime collectors have all figured this out. A major name in the authentication business along with his friends and people he works with are in the process of having Moser fakes removed from their items, or getting replacement items for those bad pieces. They don't post here anymore....maybe it's because they don't want to be looked down upon as being fooled by a forger? I can't say for sure, but every single name in this hobby that has earned any respect at all from their fellow collectors, have agreed that the items from Moser are fake.

I certainly did not even want to comment on this again, as I have tried for months to get these guys to post their final outcomes of their deals with Marc....no luck.
I think this is the type of statement this group is looking for, you may not feel it is your place to say it out loud, but the facts remain.

I have been asked by plenty of people here to speak out...and yes it's time. Pete originally called this to attention quite some time ago. It's good he did. I certainly didn't believe it at first but I took it under consideration and took my time to piece the puzzle together.

There were signs all over the place. The Ford meetings, the crazy things that I was hearing but Discowookie (moser) backed it up pretty good. Then came the call in April of 2010 that he could get me Ford on some of my posters. I unfortunately still needed Ford on a number of posters so I gave him some of better pieces. I drove them up to his house, about 60 miles north of me here in California and I trusted him. This was a guy that I had hung out with, shared meals with, watched movies with, talked on the phone with, hung out with....you get the point. Within five days my posters were signed all with "Han Solo" inscriptions. That was April 2010. Something kinda hit me there, the inscription didn't look like Ford's writing. I have pieces personalized by Ford and signed by him and these didn't jive. I let that sit and just put it to the side...and then things kept adding up wrong with him. Time and time again I would catch him in lies and time and time again his stories didn't make much sense.

In October of 2010 I met Harrison Ford (for about the 25th time). This time was different. I paid to get into an event in San Diego, also attended by my friend A.J. and Marc. We all drove together. That night I finally was able to put it all together...the puzzle was basically completed. I saw the look on Ford's face when Marc tried to explain who he was and more importantly I saw how Ford acted towards Marc. This was the same guy who used to tell me "Harrison really liked me and had a good time during our lunch and he wants to do this again", and this one.."harrison was really comfortable with me". Then I see them face to face and there is nothing.

I knew for sure at that point that I had gotten taken too. After many hours of thinking it through and hearing the stories from my friend Greg who trusted marc with his Mark Hamill multi-signed pieces only to see them come back destroyed with bogus Hamill signatures...and then seeing the pieces that Graham had come back from marc...more Hamill's and bad Rick Bakers. That was on top of the bad McQuarries and Mayhews and the puzzle was finished.

I broke off ties with Marc in late October. I have three posters that were absolutely destroyed by him. One of them signed by over 180 people one of them signed by Alec Guinness.

He has no compassion, he has no moral compass. He's a malicous person that stopped at nothing to feed his greed for more and more and more.

He has crushed alot of people on these boards. No doubt. Everyone here should realize that he's just a bad person. He has a track record with deciet and fraud and he's done the same thing with the prop community.

Pete started this off, I commend him for it. And now everyone needs to move on and regroup and learn from it. I got burned! It happens, i'm not happy about it but i've moved on. I've met Harrison Ford in person at least 25 times. I have gotten him all over the country, at premiers, movie sets, talk shows, banquets...etc. But I got taken, I trusted a guy that turned out to be a scumbag.

I hope you have all learned too, Pete was right about this guy, it just takes others time to learn on their own...like I did.

Lata.

Steve,

Fantastic post,and very informative.Thankyou

Lee