Garven Dreis in ESB?

kk1

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Great stuff. About the Luke rogue 4 thing, I was just confused because Luke is rogue 1 and hobbie is rogue 4.

Hmm like I said its old but I think there used to be some confusion over this before, not sure what I used as my source (wookipedia is a mess) I'll have to see if I can find it.
 

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. I spotted a yellowy sort of helmet held by one of the pilot extras that run in front of the Falcon but I think it's probably the Red 1 helmet.

I'm interested to know if you think that the dark skinned tall man in a red B-wing flight suit, the first of the four B-wing pilots on the gallery area in the Home one briefing room is Braylen Stramm. He was introduced in the 'Blade Squadron' short story in Star Wars insider and is the second in command (I think ) of Blade squadron, which would make him Blade 2. And I'm not sure if Keyan Farlander is mentioned in any new canon material, do you think he is either of the two b wing guys standing either side of Palso Thern?

Do you think that all of the A-wing (6) and Y-wing (5) pilots are guys that don't appear in any cockpit shots during the battle sequence? I was wondering if they're meant to be separate pilots.
Red 4 helmet walks in front of Falcon (I have a pic somewhere), too be honest the X-wing pilots are as far as I got in ROTJ since their are so few good pics of the other pilots helmets. Maybe I'll give it a go here.



Porkins' and Red 4's helmets.
 
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Oh yep. With the falcon reference though, I was talking about the shots of pilot extras running in front of the Falcon in echo base. One of them I think is the dark moustache guy, another has what looks to be the red 1 helmet
 

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I would say the B-wing pilot on the left is Keyan Farlander Blue 9, the Blonde guy, is Palso Thern Blue 7, and the pilot next to him appears to be a woman...Ru Meurleen? Could the black pilot be Bowman Gavin?

 
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join in, wedge!

I have a strong feeling that the black dude in B-wing gear is where the new canon character Braylen Stramm comes from. It could very well be a coincidence though, Stramm is part of Blade squadron (Blade 2/ blade leader) which is meant to be all B-wings. However, Ten Numb is also canonically part of Blue squadron (blue 5) at Endor. So to me, the story group has this idea that the pilots involved in the battle were not all present at the briefing (of course), and also that only a small number of them were there.

Can an anyone make out what helmet the man in x-wing gear, the guy next to the guy with the red Phoenix helmet, next to Karie Neth has? Looks darkish, could it be John D. / red four?
 

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Can an anyone make out what helmet the man in x-wing gear, the guy next to the guy with the red Phoenix helmet, next to Karie Neth has? Looks darkish, could it be John D. / red four?
Only one I can't see, but I can see the "mohawk" is dark too which makes me think its not Red 4's. If I had to guess I would say its Zev Senesca's helmet, his is the only one that had a dark mohawk.
 
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Why don't we get this show back on the road. BTW, my name is Theron Nett, it's great to finally meet all of you guys.
Only one I can't see, but I can see the "mohawk" is dark too which makes me think its not Red 4's. If I had to guess I would say its Zev Senesca's helmet, his is the only one that had a dark mohawk.
So, quick synopsis

Luke Skywalker-Signature Helmet
Dak Ralter-Blue Starbird
Zev Senesca-Signature Helmet
Kit Valent-Blue Starbird(Since his only appearance is a re-used shot of Dak Ralter in the T-47 Cockpit)
Wedge Antilles-Signature Helmet
Wes Janson-Signature Helmet
Derek Klivian/Hobbie-Jon Vander's Helmet
Tarn Mison-Unknown;Possibly One Of Wedge's Helmets or a totally unique one
Nala Hetsime-Red Starbird
Vekozev Kabir-Blue Starbird
Tarrin Datch-Jek Tono Porkins' Helmet, though i can't really tell
Tenk Lenso-John D. Branon's Helmet
Jek Pugilio-Blue Starbird
Gemmer Sojan-Unknown; Possibly Red Starbird
Will Scotian-Red Starbird
Beryann Raleg-Blue Starbrid
Kulbart Zamoon-Blue Starbird
Adam Swiftgale-Unknown; Possibly Blue Starbird
Nichos Panib-Garven Dreis' Helmet
Habeer Zignean-Tiree's Helmet
Unidentified Pilot 1-Red Starbird; I honestly think this guy can be retconned into Kit Valent
Unidentified Pilot 2-Blue Starbird; Have no idea where this guy went; Maybe this guy can be retconned into Stax Mullawny, eh, who knows
Unidentified Pilot 3-Luke's Training Helmet

I think that wraps it up. I'm pretty sure Theron Nett's helmet was damaged while filming ANH, which might be the reason it was replaced with Janson's helmet during the explosion scene. Davish Krail's helmet also seemed to have a broken chin strap, so it might have been replaced too. I originally thought Porkins' helmet was also scrapped until i saw this thread. As for Biggs' helmet i have no clue what happened to it. Also, here are some high quality photos of some of the pilots that we got from the Michel Parbot TESB documentary.

1.PNG
Nichos Panib

2.PNG
Zev Senesca

3.PNG
Tenk Lenso

4.PNG
Wes Janson

5.PNG
Beryann Raleg

6.PNG
Jek Pugilio (And A Helmetless Tenk Lenso)

7.PNG
Maybe Kit Valent

8.PNG
Kulbart Zamoon

Anyways, it's great to finally be here, it's a real honor that i'm a member of this website. I used to be a user on Wookiepedia and i contributed to the website heavily, but i lost interest and i eventually joined this place, which has helped me uncover many secrets and helped me solve several questions involved with Star Wars.
 
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Another i would like to add is something strange i noticed. So, in the film and all BTS photos, the B-Wing pilots are in the spotlight, while the X-Wing, A-Wing and Y-Wing pilots are totally obscured, hence why we can't get a good look at them. One A-Wing pilot, played by Terence Mustoo (Supposedly), is meant to be Tycho Celchu, but he has a Y-Wing helmet. Some pilots also share helmets, like the guy sitting next to Kin Kian, who shares his helmet with Grizz Frix, who also appears in ROTJ, portrayed by Ronny Cush, so i guess the Gold Leader helmet was very popular, and it does look pretty cool. Oh and btw, Kin Kian and Karie Neth are Y-Wing gunners, even though they are wearing X-Wing flight suits :/
 
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Another i would like to add is something strange i noticed. So, in the film and all BTS photos, the B-Wing pilots are in the spotlight, while the X-Wing, A-Wing and Y-Wing pilots are totally obscured, hence why we can't get a good look at them. One A-Wing pilot, played by Terence Mustoo (Supposedly), is meant to be Tycho Celchu, but he has a Y-Wing helmet. Some pilots also share helmets, like the guy sitting next to Kin Kian, who shares his helmet with Grizz Frix, who also appears in ROTJ, portrayed by Ronny Cush, so i guess the Gold Leader helmet was very popular, and it does look pretty cool. Oh and btw, Kin Kian and Karie Neth are Y-Wing gunners, even though they are wearing X-Wing flight suits :/
And also, here is a Y-Wing helmet that i think was worn by Errol Shaker, though he didn't make the final cut, footage was likely filmed of him in a Y-Wing cockpit
Shaq Fu.PNG
 
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Ok, so i decided to go on ahead and see how many Y-Wing, A-Wing and B-Wing helmets i can find, the results i got were both confusing and underwhelming. The Y-Wing pilots are the most diverse, but have similar artistic designs, and the A-Wing and B-Wing pilots aren't diverse at all. Ok so here we go.

This is the helmet worn by Gray Leader Horton Salm, and subsequently Red Two.
1.PNG

This is the helmet worn by Lt. Telsij, or Gureni Telsij as he's known as in Disney Canon.
2.PNG

This is the helmet worn by Ekelarc Yong.
3.PNG

This is a completely unique helmet, have no idea who wore it, maybe a pilot from the briefing
4.PNG
Those are the Y-Wing helmets, now onto the A-Wing helmets which are pretty much the same with very little changes.

This is Arvel Crynyd (Hilton Mcrae)'s helmet.
5.PNG

Tycho Celchu's helmet, which is only seen during the briefing, and it's barely noticeable. It's also a Y-Wing helmet, but because of that figure released a while ago, it's an A-Wing helmet, why? I have no idea, probably because the costume designers just gave many of the pilots random helmets since the EU wasn't a very big deal while filming the Original Trilogy.
6.PNG
Celchu in the film (Apparently portrayed by Terence Mustoo).
Mustoo I Guess.PNG

Now we have Jake Farrell (Michael Drew)'s helmet, the most boring so far.
7.PNG

Now there was also another A-Wing pilot cut from the film, who was actually a Mon Calamari dude presumably controlled by Tim Rose and Simon Williamson. He has a unique helmet, and although we don't get a good look at it in the footage, there is a hypothetical photo which shows how the helmet is meant to look. In Canon, this guy is a B-Wing pilot named Ika Sulko, but i just call him Green Five
8.PNG
9.PNG

There was also another cut A-Wing pilot, portrayed by an unknown actress, who seems to have Jake Farrell's helmet, but i can't really tell because the footage is in black and white
10.PNG
That's all for the A-Wing pilots, but now onto the B-Wing helmets which are a little more diverse, but we don't get a good look at them, since the B-Wings were cut out of the film.

Here is a unique B-Wing helmet. We get a really good look at it, but we don't know who wore it.
11.PNG

Here is Ten Numb (Richard Bonehill)'s flight helmet, it's very unique from the others since it's made specifically for Sullustans
12.PNG

This is another unique helmet worn by an unknown pilot in ROTJ and later, Admiral Krane (Craig C. Lewis) in the video game Star Wars: Rebel Assault II: The Hidden Empire.
14.PNG

Finally, we have another unique helmet worn by a Sullustan B-Wing pilot that did not make the final cut.
15.PNG
 
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So, i think we've covered all of the major helmets? At least, the ones we see up close
 

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Why don't we get this show back on the road. BTW, my name is Theron Nett, it's great to finally meet all of you guys.



I think that wraps it up. I'm pretty sure Theron Nett's helmet was damaged while filming ANH, which might be the reason it was replaced with Janson's helmet during the explosion scene. Davish Krail's helmet also seemed to have a broken chin strap, so it might have been replaced too. I originally thought Porkins' helmet was also scrapped until i saw this thread. As for Biggs' helmet i have no clue what happened to it. Also, here are some high quality photos of some of the pilots that we got from the Michel Parbot TESB documentary.
The pilot shown during the explosion for Theron Nett in ANH is a completely different actor playing Red 12, whose scenes were all edited out.
 
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i don't know, I've compared the actor with see in the film with Robert O'Mahoney, and i just think they look way too similar to be different actors, if it is a different actor, then forget everything i said. But considering we never see the helmet again, even during ANH, i think it's fair to say it might be the same person, but we really can't tell. Jack Klaff who played John D. Branon thinks it's Robert O'Mahoney so i don't know
 

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i don't know, I've compared the actor with see in the film with Robert O'Mahoney, and i just think they look way too similar to be different actors, if it is a different actor, then forget everything i said. But considering we never see the helmet again, even during ANH, i think it's fair to say it might be the same person, but we really can't tell. Jack Klaff who played John D. Branon thinks it's Robert O'Mahoney so i don't know
Lots more actors were filmed for the battle scene but they were cut and edited out, Red 12 was supposed to be in the film that's why he got a "Hero" helmet and the model makers gave his X-wing a unique paint job


 
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well, i didn't know that model was in the film. Thanks for telling me, well, sorry i guess. Well if that is the case, then the man in the exploding cockpit may be John Chapman, who says he played a character designated Red Twelve in the film, or maybe someone else entirely. I know that model was used for Theron Nett's X-Wing in a card game, but i had no idea it was an actual shooting model, i thought it was a modified miniature
 
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kk1

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well, i didn't know that model was in the film. Thanks for telling me, well, sorry i guess. Well if that is the case, then the man in the exploding cockpit may be John Chapman, who says he played a character designated Red Twelve in the film, or maybe someone else entirely. I know that model was used for Theron Nett's X-Wing in a card game, but i had no idea it was an actual shooting model, i thought it was a modified miniature
John Chapman only claimed to be in the scene with all the pilots being told how to attack the DS he made up the character name, etc. so I highly doubt it's him. Theron Nett's Red 10 was actually made too (note the unique red gun at the top)
 
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Ah yeah, shame they didn't use those models in this scene
RedtenAndTwelve.PNG

On the topic of John Chapman, i was honestly rather suspicious too, i was like. "Well that's strange? I've never heard of this guy before, i guess he just came out of nowhere and said he was in that scene" as is the case with many actors from the original trilogy. However, after i discovered the pilot he supposedly portrayed, i discovered an interview where he happened to be standing in front of the picture, and
Chapman.PNG

I'll let you be the judge. It's kind of like the David Stone incident, i didn't believe he portrayed Keyan Farlander, util i saw this BTS photo where he was standing next to Trevor Butterfield, who played Lieutenant Blount
1.PNG
*Cropped
2.PNG
Pretty much the same guy, he also says he played Will Scotian, but i'm not sure about that one
 
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Anyways, have we mentioned any Imperial pilots? Sure, most of them have the same generic helmet, but the pilots of Black Squadron seem to have a distinctive silver line that looks like a tear dripping from their eyes, i think it's meant to symbolize that Black Squadron is an elite squadron in the Imperial Navy
 

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Oh Chapman IS in the movie just not the trench scene. Besides Luke and Gold Leader I don't think anyone from the trench scene is at the meeting.
 

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Anyways, have we mentioned any Imperial pilots? Sure, most of them have the same generic helmet, but the pilots of Black Squadron seem to have a distinctive silver line that looks like a tear dripping from their eyes, i think it's meant to symbolize that Black Squadron is an elite squadron in the Imperial Navy
12 Helmets used in the movie most were generic just with the Imperial insignia but three were given "hero" paint jobs
 
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Gotcha.

Anyways, i've already listed all of the TESB pilots, so i suppose i should list the ROTJ X-Wing Helmets, so

Wedge Antilles-Signature Helmet
Grizz Frix-Jon Vander's Helmet
Keir Santage-Zev Senesca's Helmet (I Think)
Dorovio Bold-Luke's Training Helmet
Kin Kian-Blue Starbird (He's A Y-Wing Gunner, but he's wearing an X-Wing Helmet)
Karie Neth-Luke's Training Helmet
Pilot Sitting Next To Kin Kian (Randi?)-Jon Vander's Helmet
Pilot Sitting Next To Karie Neth-Red Starbird
Hangar Pilot 1-John D. Branon's Helmet
Hangar Pilot 2-Jek T. Porkins' Helmet
Briefing Pilot 1-Garven Dreis' Helmet
Briefing Pilot 2-Unknown
Briefing Pilot 3-Darkish Helmet

I think that's it
 

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Gotcha.

Anyways, i've already listed all of the TESB pilots, so i suppose i should list the ROTJ X-Wing Helmets, so

Wedge Antilles-Signature Helmet
Grizz Frix-Jon Vander's Helmet
Keir Santage-Zev Senesca's Helmet (I Think)
Dorovio Bold-Luke's Training Helmet
Kin Kian-Blue Starbird (He's A Y-Wing Gunner, but he's wearing an X-Wing Helmet)
Karie Neth-Luke's Training Helmet
Pilot Sitting Next To Kin Kian (Randi?)-Jon Vander's Helmet
Pilot Sitting Next To Karie Neth-Red Starbird
Hangar Pilot 1-John D. Branon's Helmet
Hangar Pilot 2-Jek T. Porkins' Helmet
Briefing Pilot 1-Garven Dreis' Helmet
Briefing Pilot 2-Unknown
Briefing Pilot 3-Darkish Helmet

I think that's it
IIRC Biggs' helmet is in the briefing room too
 
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Ok, well, i didn't manage to find a helmet that resembled Biggs' in the film or in the BTS shots. However, i did get a shot of this blurry dude's helmet, this is the pilot sitting next to the guy with Garven Dreis' helmet, they later leave the scene to my knowledge, since in the next shot, we can't see them sitting. It's too blurry to tell which helmet it is, but we can speculate
Blurry dude.PNG
I also spotted this guy's helmet, which has a distinctive Gold Squadron symbol on it. Don't know if this is another guy with Jon Vander's helmet, but it could also be Tiree's helmet for all we know. Don't know if it's Porkins' since the guy seen wearing it later on seems to be wearing a different flight suit. They could have easily switched though
2.PNG
 
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Also, I've noticed all of the Award cermony pilots are wearing blue starbird helmets with black visors, and they are all strangely reminiscent of the pilots from the Hoth briefng scene
bruh.PNG
 
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The Throne room scenes (and some of the hanger scenes) were shot before the cockpit close ups. They are all basic blue insignias because that was the original scheme and it was before the unique schemes were applied and the visors were switched to the amber versions. After this scene was shot, a dozen of the helmets received their unique paintjobs and all of the smoked visors were switched out for amber visors because they were having issues with make up running under the hot lighting in the close ups. If you look closely in right lighting, the raised edges of the blue decals are still visible underneath the final paint work on most of the helmets. The blue birds that show up in ESB are the few helmets that didn't get updated paintjobs (but did get updated visors) after this scene.
 

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The Throne room scenes (and some of the hanger scenes) were shot before the cockpit close ups. They are all basic blue insignias because that was the original scheme and it was before the unique schemes were applied and the visors were switched to the amber versions. After this scene was shot, a dozen of the helmets received their unique paintjobs and all of the smoked visors were switched out for amber visors because they were having issues with make up running under the hot lighting in the close ups.
Let's see Red 1-6,10,12, 3 Y-wing pilots and one seen carried by a pilot in the hangar after Luke blows up the DS. I wonder if Luke's first helmet was turned into his second or if they were two separate helmets. Throw in the Millenium Falcon training helmet and that's 14 unique designs from ANH.
 
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The art dept were in process of painting the helmets when they were filming the hanger scenes. That's why we get the non final proto Luke with the stripey mohawk sides in one scene and the proto Wedge (I call it that because Wedge is carrying it but I don't know for sure if it ended up as Wedge's helmet) in the above scene and why there's still a few generic blues with the smoked visor- they needed them for filming but they weren't finished.
 

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The art dept were in process of painting the helmets when they were filming the hanger scenes. That's why we get the non final proto Luke with the stripey mohawk sides in one scene and the proto Wedge (I call it that because Wedge is carrying it but I don't know for sure if it ended up as Wedge's helmet) in the above scene and why there's still a few generic blues with the smoked visor- they needed them for filming but they weren't finished.
I always wonder if they had more designs drawn up but didn't get to use them, or they just winged it. I know I've seen Mollo's sketches of the Rebel and Imperial insignia but (I forget who exactly did the helmets) I remember reading he based them on Vietnam era helmets where the military guys took colored tape and made designs on their helmets, which is why I assume there are lots of stripe patterned helmets (Biggs, Red leader, Porkins, Red 4, Red 12 and Gold leader) compared to only 3 with the rebel symbol (Luke, Tiree well I guess Porkins counts as both) with Pops and Red 10 having their symbols replaced by circle patterns, and Wedge just being the boring solid color.
I was pretty disappointed in the fan made(?) rehashes of the originals in Rogue one. I was hoping for some of the originality from from the first movie.
 
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I always wonder if they had more designs drawn up but didn't get to use them, or they just winged it. I know I've seen Mollo's sketches of the Rebel and Imperial insignia but (I forget who exactly did the helmets) I remember reading he based them on Vietnam era helmets where the military guys took colored tape and made designs on their helmets, which is why I assume there are lots of stripe patterned helmets (Biggs, Red leader, Porkins, Red 4, Red 12 and Gold leader) compared to only 3 with the rebel symbol (Luke, Tiree well I guess Porkins counts as both) with Pops and Red 10 having their symbols replaced by circle patterns, and Wedge just being the boring solid color.
I was pretty disappointed in the fan made(?) rehashes of the originals in Rogue one. I was hoping for some of the originality from from the first movie.
Yeah, most of the RO helmets juts have symbols from the original helmets that have been slightly modified, or they are juts star bird helmets with some additional; arrow or lines on the mohawks. Though some of the helmets are kind of cool, like Brace Marko's helmet for example
yeah.PNG
 
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This thread has been a very interesting read. I've been doing a lot of pilot customs so seeing certain helmets with pilots has been very helpful!
 

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Also, who are these dudes? Is the guy in the first photo Habeer Zignean with a gunner?
View attachment 378362
View attachment 378363
Ughh I have a list with these all figured out somewhere, pilot/gunner and what helmet they were wearing.
Anyway until I find it here's two more Hoth pilots the gunner I think is wearing Wes Jansen's helmet (I think there is another pic of these 2 on the first page) so someone got in the wrong speeder. ;)
 
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