Garven Dreis in ESB?

kk1

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More or less, I am just matching Pilot and Gunner, this is it.
Sorry for this inconvenience.

Well I was just saying if you wanted to just comment on those pics all you had to do was quote those responses instead of going to all that trouble making new links.
And yeah I've been trying to match them up too now that they have been given names but its pretty impossible as it seems they just kept putting random guys together, like Wes Janson with someone besides Wedge and Gold Leader helmet wearing guy in one shot with a gunner with a generic red helmet and another with a gunner wearing Luke's training helmet. There's behind the scenes footage of even more pilots but again they're all pretty random...unfortunately. Though from what I've been able to see there are at least 22 identifiable pilots on Hoth possibly a couple more enough for 11 or 12 speeder pilots and their gunners.
 

kk1

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Thank you so much for your comments.
Here are more details.

This is the the blonde mustache guy with his gunner and his gunner is using Wes Janson's helmet (Wedge's gunner).

Yeah I've since detrermined that is not the blonde guy but the tubby guy on the left, you can see the mark on the blue symbol on his helmet matches. I guess his name is now Vekozev Kabir.


Also the guy with Red 4's helmet is by the tip of the X-wing's cannon (which according to Wookipedia make him Tenk Lenso)
 
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Hello kk1,
The problem here is the helmets were used by many of them, I mean, for example, we have Hobbie with Gold Leader's helmet but in the scene that was cut, he is wearing the helmet that was used by Zev, there another shot of the guy with blonde mustache a looks that he is with a gunner with Janson's helmet and another front shot with Kabir as a pilot.

I am so sorry for my pictures, looks like you are mad about it. I just want to have a friendly conversation, I appreciate your answers.
Sorry and have a nice day.
 
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By the way kk1,
Do you have this picture without the photoshoped helmet? if yes, could you please share with me?

 
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kk1

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By the way kk1,
Do you have this picture without the photoshoped helmet? if yes, could you please share with me?

Not mad at all, just trying to keep the confusion to a minimum, here ya go

 
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Hah just rewatched it and both the shots of Zev's gunner and Luke's are of Dak. The weathering on the helmets is identical, so just creative editing. So yeah both just the same generic helmet (though as mentioned dirtied up and the blue symbols have little bits missing).
I'm not surprised at that footage reuse. That's pretty typical of a lot of the battle scenes in all three movies. So Zev's gunner is not seen in ESB. I'm sure they had an extra behind him for the cockpit shots so maybe some cut footage or behind the scenes pics might turn up showing what helmet the extra used.
 
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Thank you so much kk1.
By the way, check this picture:



In the left corner, for me looks like a generic helmet for Hobbie's gunner.
What do you think?

A similiar picture of Wedge shows Wes Janson but Zev Senesca does not show any actor behind him.
 
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Just to let everyone know, we have an answer to the thread question! According to Wookiepedia, the Pilot wearing the Garven Dreis helmet is "Nichos Panib" flying as Green 4. His description says he painted the helmet in honor of Dreis who was a family friend. So there's your (for the time being) "Canon" explanation.

Nichos Panib - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
 
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kk1

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Just to let everyone know, we have an answer to the thread question! According to Wookiepedia, the Pilot wearing the Garven Dreis helmet is "Nichos Panib" flying as Green 4. His description says he painted the helmet in honor of Dreis who was a family friend. So there's your (for the time being) "Canon" explanation.

Nichos Panib - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
What they couldn't have thought of something more original, like he scavenged it from the Death Star debris floating around Yavin? ;)
 
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While we are on the topic of ESB hoth pilots, here's something I've always wondered about - Why during the battle when we see Zev (rogue 2) before his death, is is face bleeding? It's a minor thing I know, but he's in a sealed cockpit. What happened? My only guess would be that something inside blew up during the battle. Anyone every seen/heard a reason?
 

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Finally found a good side view with a better view of the red helmet

 
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I looked it up in another thread, and confirmed, the guy commonly identified as Kesin Ommis is the guy who played Dack, meaning Kesin Ommis does not exist and it's really Dack standing there.
 
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kk1

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I looked it up in another thread, and confirmed, the guy commonly identified as Kesin Ommis is the guy who played Dack, meaning Kesin Ommis does not exist and it's really Dack standing there.
There is a mustached rebel pilot on Hoth he comes running in when Luke is saying goodbye to Han and Chewie



and gets in the snowspeeder behind Luke and Dack

 
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Sorry for the bump. I'd like to know if it would be possible to confirm the identities and the helmets of the various rebel pilots seen in the briefing on Home One and in the battle of endor? I think Kin Kian (blonde male pilot in x-wing gear) is carrying a generic blue bird helmet but I'm not sure. Does anyone know if Karie neth, the female pilot in x wing gear as well is carrying a generic red bird x wing helmet as seen in Echo Base or does it have a red stripe down its"mohawk"? I can't really tell.

Would I be right in saying that the footage of the gunners from ESB made to appear as Zev and Hobbie's partners is really just reused Dak footage, edited to make it seem as though they're in the same cockpit as zev and hobbie? Since there doesn't appear to be an actual "Kit Valent" or "Kesin Ommis" on the set of the film, it just looks like dak.
 

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Karie Neth is wearing Luke's modified training helmet from Star Wars (stripe added)



You can see next to her in this pic of Wedge (or whatever this was modified to lol)



The guy next to her has generic red and behind generic blue and next to him is Gold Leader's helmet (clearer in the above pic)^
 

kk1

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Would I be right in saying that the footage of the gunners from ESB made to appear as Zev and Hobbie's partners is really just reused Dak footage, edited to make it seem as though they're in the same cockpit as zev and hobbie? Since there doesn't appear to be an actual "Kit Valent" or "Kesin Ommis" on the set of the film, it just looks like dak.
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1071250-4/#post19327869
 
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Cool, thanks.


I've seen that picture of the female pilot (with the Falcon training helmet) referenced as "Dorovio bold" but not Karie Neth before. Is it the same actress that is shown sitting down in x wing gear in the ds2 briefing? With your pictures, I could easily make out Gold Leader's helmet, in this scene it appears to belong to the pilot sitting next to Kian, also in x wing gear (has this pilot been identified anywhere?) I had previously managed to snap a clear still of what appears to be the generic blue 'Dak' helmet as well as Red Leader (shown below), but missed any detail shot of the female pilot. Has she been properly identified ?










http://i.imgur.com/XbIo1IU.jpg
 
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kk1

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Cool, thanks.


I've seen that picture of the female pilot (with the Falcon training helmet) referenced as "Dorovio bold" but not Karie Neth before. Is it the same actress that is shown sitting down in x wing gear in the ds2 briefing?
Its two different actresses AFAIK (the one playing Dorovio passed away)and I guess that's the reason they've been given 2 different character names, which IMO is dumb since they look identical and are wearing the same helmet they're obviously meant to be the same character just like the 2 Wedges in ANH.
 
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Hmm, this is interesting. Do you have any close up images that clearly show the pilot in the briefing ("Karie Neth"?) holding the Falcon helmet that "Dorovio Bold" is also shown wearing in the x wing cockpit? This is the best I have at the moment. Is that the Falcon helmet circled?

Also any other IDs on other pilots in the briefing? ( :
 
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kk1

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Hmm, this is interesting. Do you have any close up images that clearly show the pilot in the briefing ("Karie Neth"?) holding the Falcon helmet that "Dorovio Bold" is also shown wearing in the x wing cockpit?

Also any other IDs on other pilots in the briefing? ( :

No that pic of Wedge is the best you're gonna get, and I have this but its the pilot from the cockpit


 
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I added another photo, does that help? I see the resemblance, and you can see a design on the helmet just on Madine's chin in that photo. Looks like the Bold helmet but I'm not 100% on it.

Also, I was watching the endor space sequence again, and after the shield is deactivated, Lando says "Red Group, Gold Group, all fighters follow me". We see the Falcon, two A-wings, two X-wings and a Y wing line up on Lando.

Although it's not shown in the film, I believe that the Y-wing that enters the death star is established to be Gold 9, Norra Wexley in Aftermath.

The two X-wings, obviously one is Wedge, Red Leader. Keir Santage is canonically the second X-wing, but his callsign is Legends. Red seven. I don't see why that would change.

One of the A-wings is Jake Farrell. I was speculating that he was part of Green Squadron, but I think it's more likely that he is Red squadron, since we know that Red squadron at Endor had both A-wings and X-wings (Sila Kott is Red 2, Frix is 5). Previously I had ignored the fact that Lando specifically calls out to Gold and Red. Although in legends Farrell was "Green 4", that has become contradicted with the introduction of Shara Bey, plus in other material outside of the film green group appears to be fighting outside the death star, so I think Farrell is porbably red squadron. I can't figure out who the second A-wing that follows Lando is though.
 

kk1

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Ohh its 100% Luke's training helmet you can see the writing and gray square on the side in the Wedge pic



Maybe the other A-wing is this guy ;)
 
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Haha. Yeah, I've had a proper look and I'm almost certain that's the falcon training helmet that Lynne Hazelwood is holding. That's some great detective work.

Now I've come across a pilot that was named "Tarn Mison". This guy was played by one of the artists on ESB and ROTJ, Michael Pangrazio, a matte paining artist as an extra (along with McQuarrie I believe). The problem is that the only image I can find of him almost completely obscures the helmet but you can make out some small details on the front. From what I can see, the only properly plausible possibility as to the identity of this helmet is the one belonging to Davish Krail, Gold 5 at Yavin. The details seem to match up but in the portrait of "Tarn Mison", the front of the helmet looks funny. in light of the fact that this guy was one of the artists on the film, I think it's completely possible that it has been altered in some way during the production of ESB following its recycling from ANH. This of course assumes that the helmet is in fact the Gold 5 helmet. It may well be a new one, but I think that less likely than the possibility that it was reused for a tiny background part. If you could lend your apparently terrific insight to help me solve this problem that would be brilliant.



i also recall seeing somewhere some digging regarding the rescue of the "John D." helmet (red 4) from ANH at the pilot briefing in ESB. I would like to know if the pilot accompanying the prop has been identified at all. In the pictures linked, the pilot "Adam Swiftgale", (green 3) the blond pilot near the engines of the x-wing at the briefing, but as in all the other material I've seen, the helmet he has (if there's one at all) can't be seen. I'm not even sure if the actor standing there during the production of this shot was even holding a prop but it's hard to tell from what I have seen. I know I'm rambling here, but there is also another pilot, one wearing a generic "red bird" helmet that appears just behind the big fellow called "Will Scotian", to the right of the briefing shot. (Does scotian just have a generic blue bird? I didn't find out) From stills it's easy to see what helmet he's wearing but I haven't been able to figure out the name he's been given, if there is one, and/or his designation and callsign. The pilots "Tenk Lenso", "Tarrin Datch" and "Gemmer Sojan" are all also clearly identified, but I can't make out which helmets they have. I believe one of them had the Porkins helmet from ANH but I can't remember which.





If if its of any interest, I also managed to figure out that Rogue 7, "Nala Hetsime", wears the exact same helmet as the anonymous guy above, the generic "red bird" .

appreciate any insight. This stuff is so pointless but it fascinates me for some reason.
 
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kk1

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All the Hoth stuff was in posts on the first 2 pages that now appear to be missing their pictures (wonder what happened) hmmm I'll repost them.
 

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let's see the guy in the back(13-Nala Hetsime from your photo) has a generic red one





here are the Blues and reused ANH ones l-r on the blues 2-Vekozen Kabir, 3-Beryann Raleg, 5-Jek Pugilio(though his has a black visor), 6--Kulbart Zamoon, and 10- Dak, 12- Tarrin Datch has Porkin's helmet



Ok this is a little wrong, the inset of the pilot is actually 2-Vekozev not the tall guy in the back and the guy with the generic red doesn't have a name I guess




You can see the rip in his blue phoenix symbol matches (also note Jek's black visor)



And Will Scotian isn't "big" they're standing on boxes



16 Tenk Lenso has the Red 4 helmet from ANH (and it took me a looong time to find him)





originally he was next to the blonde guy and didn't have the skull cap thing on




and that damn blonde guy Aadm Swiftgale not 1 good shot of his helmet exists (that I know of) he IS holding one though as you can see here, also note Will Scotian's helmet is a generic red and Wes Janson was next to Nichos Panib (and someone else next to him there are 19 pilots total listening to Leia)


Luke's trainer is on Hoth too, though I'm not sure who had it

 
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kk1

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Haha. Yeah, I've had a proper look and I'm almost certain that's the falcon training helmet that Lynne Hazelwood is holding. That's some great detective work.

Now I've come across a pilot that was named "Tarn Mison". This guy was played by one of the artists on ESB and ROTJ, Michael Pangrazio, a matte paining artist as an extra (along with McQuarrie I believe). The problem is that the only image I can find of him almost completely obscures the helmet but you can make out some small details on the front. From what I can see, the only properly plausible possibility as to the identity of this helmet is the one belonging to Davish Krail, Gold 5 at Yavin. The details seem to match up but in the portrait of "Tarn Mison", the front of the helmet looks funny. in light of the fact that this guy was one of the artists on the film, I think it's completely possible that it has been altered in some way during the production of ESB following its recycling from ANH. This of course assumes that the helmet is in fact the Gold 5 helmet. It may well be a new one, but I think that less likely than the possibility that it was reused for a tiny background part. If you could lend your apparently terrific insight to help me solve this problem that would be brilliant.

This is something I have been trying to figure out myself and unfortunately have never seen a high enough resolution picture that could help clarify things. Because of the center stripes and possible hatched striping at the base of the mohawk it looks like Luke's to me.
 

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I also Forgot one pilot I just call him Kessin Omis because of the figure with the mustache


He can also be seen getting in the Snowspeeder behind Luke and Dak, unfortunately you never get a good look at his helmet

 

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Oh and Gemmer you never see clearly either

here he is hangin with Tarrin though



and if they're always together and if he's the guy running behind him in this scene it's generic red (in between the 2 guys in the pic)



oh and here you can see Will Scotian's red helmet (and what some of the other pilots looks like without their helmets and skullcaps)

 

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So including Luke there's at least 20 pilots and enough ambiguity to give each a name and helmet.

here was a list I made a while ago so I'd probably have to update it

Leia's meeting-start at x-wing tip)
————————————————————————————————————————
01)-Generic red-bushy hair med Will Scotian Blue 3
02)-Generic red short
03)-Generic red-Nala Hetsime high dark hair tall Rogue 7
04)-Tiree med Habeer Zignean Green 5
05)-Gold leader-Hobbie tall
06)-Generic blue-Dak Ralter med Rogue 4
*07)-blond guy Adam Swiftgale med Unknown helmet-clear visor
08)-Generic blue tall Kulbart Zamoon Blue 12
09)-Wedge short Rogue 3
10)-Zev tall
11)-Generic blue tall Beryann Raleg Blue 8
12)-Generic blue-fat Vekozev Kabir tall Rogue 8
*13)-short black hair med Unknown helmet
14)-Wes med Rogue 3
15)-Gold leader Nichos Panib short
16)-Generic blue-black visor Jek Pugilio tall Rogue 11
17)-Red 4 Tenk Lenso med Rogue 11

2 late guys
18)-Porkins Tarrin Datch med Rogue 10
*19)-long dark hair generic? med Gemmer Sojan Blue 4

seen in hangar
20) mustache -dark helmet
21) training helmet
22) Luke Rogue 4
 
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Wow. Absolutely brilliant. How confident would you be in matching Gemmer with a generic red helmet? Seems likely to me, especially given the 'first transport is away' shot . I am still amazed that Swiftgale is obscured in every single still. Do you think it's possible that the pilot wearing the Luke training helmet is the same actor? I'm also surprised that the guy behind Will Scotian is completely unidentified .


Tarn Mison looks to be a near exact match for Luke's ESB prop. Krail's helmet also ,st he's quite well though. And in terms of continuity (which I know does not apply here, you have to make lots of retcons to account for canonical inconsistencies that exist due to the way the film was produced), Mison having the same designs as the Krail helmet as a tribute to pilots at yavin makes more sense. I think it resembles Luke's ESB helmet more though.


which pilot/helmet are you referring to here?


22) Luke rogue 4
 

kk1

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Wow. Absolutely brilliant. How confident would you be in matching Gemmer with a generic red helmet? Seems likely to me, especially given the 'first transport is away' shot . I am still amazed that Swiftgale is obscured in every single still. Do you think it's possible that the pilot wearing the Luke training helmet is the same actor? I'm also surprised that the guy behind Will Scotian is completely unidentified .
Not very, he definitely has a generic helmet, you just can not see whether its blue or red.



cant really see his face



Swiftgale is a tough call but one thing makes me sure he's not wearing it are the details you CAN see his helmet has a clear visor and the training helmet's is yellow and I don't see a chin strap (although its too blurry to really see and that may be a chin strap and not the visor)


at least we know one of the generic reds is a gunner for Nichos Panib



Tarn Mison looks to be a near exact match for Luke's ESB prop. Krail's helmet also ,st he's quite well though. And in terms of continuity (which I know does not apply here, you have to make lots of retcons to account for canonical inconsistencies that exist due to the way the film was produced), Mison having the same designs as the Krail helmet as a tribute to pilots at yavin makes more sense. I think it resembles Luke's ESB helmet more though.
I think Krails' and red 10's helmets were sacrificed to make new helmets (Luke, Wedge and Zev all got new helmets in Empire) as we never see them again and they don't exist in Lucasfilm Archives. Its weird we don't see Biggs' helmet in Empire as I think we see it in ROTJ, I'll have to find that pic too

which pilot/helmet are you referring to here?
Luke Skywalker ???? Remember him he had a small part in Empire ;)
 
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kk1

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I wished it help make them clearer but one thing that distinguishes the generic red helmets is they lack the "knob" at the end of the mohawk that all the other helmets have

 
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Great stuff. About the Luke rogue 4 thing, I was just confused because Luke is rogue 1 and hobbie is rogue 4.

ive had a closer look at Tarn Mison and I'm almost certain that he's wearing Luke's ESB helmet. Everything matches as far as I can see. Also looked at Swiftgale. It's definitely a generic one as with Gemmer Sojan. Every frame that it's visible in is quite blurry, but I'm leaning toward it being a blue one rather than a red one. Although due to the lighting of the decal it's difficult to tell.

Ive never seen Biggs' helmet outside of ANH, interested to see if it pops up anywhere else. I spotted a yellowy sort of helmet held by one of the pilot extras that run in front of the Falcon but I think it's probably the Red 1 helmet.

I'm interested to know if you think that the dark skinned tall man in a red B-wing flight suit, the first of the four B-wing pilots on the gallery area in the Home one briefing room is Braylen Stramm. He was introduced in the 'Blade Squadron' short story in Star Wars insider and is the second in command (I think ) of Blade squadron, which would make him Blade 2. And I'm not sure if Keyan Farlander is mentioned in any new canon material, do you think he is either of the two b wing guys standing either side of Palso Thern?

Do you think that all of the A-wing (6) and Y-wing (5) pilots are guys that don't appear in any cockpit shots during the battle sequence? I was wondering if they're meant to be separate pilots.
 
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