Finn - Walmart

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That's pretty much what I was saying with my analogy, however anyone else wanted to interpret it. II thought it made the point, but six out of ten stars is alright considering the amount of time I put into it.

If this is indeed the collector line, it's the absolute last thing to be immune to criticism. Sure, I've seen some unnecessary complaining, but overall I think most of what I've read has been well thought out and valid.

The repacks are not necessarily collector oriented. Not really enough accessories. Wish for different hip articulation. They weren't available for Force Friday. They're not available right now. Those are all my "complaints", really. Could be worse.
It could definitely be worse and I don't think anyone's complaints on here are unreasonable. We aren't asking for articulated fingers with flip off Hasbro action features.

We are asking that the awful Han Endor be retooled or retired. Retooling would be easy with the new Han Carbonite body. The tooling exists so the cost savings of a repack is built in even though he would be "new."

We are asking for the level of articulation that they have given on every previous Rebel Pilot (swivel hips).

We are asking for more accessories to help justify the price. Seriously, throw us a figure stand if nothing else.

So yeah, totally agree with you.
 
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It's about on par with the first one, i.e., fallacious.

"Articulation in places different from where we wanted articulation" is substantively different from "different articulation in places where we wanted articulation."
That's true, and fair. I still stand with the analogy though. "You still wanted PIZZA and you still got PIZZA, so be happy". I'm mostly very happy. I'll fix what i'm not happy with.
 
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I don't even understand wave 1. There's so MANY THINGS about it that don't make any sense. Any explanation I've read here is easily shot down. I really wish someone could provide a hypothetical explanation that can't be shot down so I could feel better about this line.

1. Why was this line kept a secret even after Sept.4th event? I know Hasbro released some kind of statement shortly after Force Friday but this line received no promotional material.

2. Why didn't Hasbro release these as part of Sept. 4th event(as one of their press releases oddly claims)?

3. Why did Hasbro launch this line with Repacks of characters that were recently and widely available? (At least Vader she Chewbacca were).

4. Why did Hasbro use a version of Darth Vader that is 10 years old?

5. Why didn't Hasbro at least update/correct Lukes robe as some incentive to buy this again?

6. Why did they launch this "collector" line with Repacks at all?

7. Why are they in such a costly package if these figures are so costly to produce and sell?

8. Why weren't ANY TFA characters part of wave 1?
 
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I'll concede it's not perfect. But neither is the statement I was arguing against. I chose an extreme example to make my point. The statement I was arguing against was "well it's SA, don't complain, you should be happy." Things aren't that simple. And critiquing a figure isn't one of those complaining because we're never happy situations.

I think Rey looks fantastic. No complaining at all.
 
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I don't even understand wave 1. There's so MANY THINGS about it that don't make any sense. Any explanation I've read here is easily shot down. I really wish someone could provide a hypothetical explanation that can't be shot down so I could feel better about this line.

1. Why was this line kept a secret even after Sept.4th event? I know Hasbro released some kind of statement shortly after Force Friday but this line received no promotional material.

2. Why didn't Hasbro release these as part of Sept. 4th event(as one of their press releases oddly claims)?

3. Why did Hasbro launch this line with Repacks of characters that were recently and widely available? (At least Vader she Chewbacca were).

4. Why did Hasbro use a version of Darth Vader that is 10 years old?

5. Why didn't Hasbro at least update/correct Lukes robe as some incentive to buy this again?

6. Why did they launch this "collector" line with Repacks at all?

7. Why are they in such a costly package if these figures are so costly to produce and sell?

8. Why weren't ANY TFA characters part of wave 1?
How dare you! I'm not even going to dignify those questions with an answer.

*throws logic book out the window*
 
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My best guess (and actual hope) July, is that they decided to hold these back a bit at the last minute in order to make sure there was enough stock and possibly multiple waves when they finally sent them to stores. It's one thing that collectors can't find the 5poa main line or the 6", but there might be legit murder if these don't hit in significant numbers. Considering how there are so few figures per wave, they really shouldn't be so hard.

I really don't buy the "didn't want two competing lines" statement. Everything would have sold regardless. It's one of two thing: something got held up beyond Hasbro's control, or they held it back on purpose for one reason or another.
 
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It could definitely be worse and I don't think anyone's complaints on here are unreasonable. We aren't asking for articulated fingers with flip off Hasbro action features.QUOTE]

Hey wait! I want the articulated flip off action feature! It would be like the next evolution of the GI Joe "kung-fu grip", the Teras Kasi middle finger. That would fly off the shelves I guarantee it!
 
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The blanket statement "you wanted Pizza", "you got pizza" is about one of the most ignorant mentalities I seen. It's a bad as saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If I was in a desert and asked for water, yes I'd be happy with water. But this argument isn't as simple as that, now is it.

Maybe if I explain it like this. WWEJedi has waited years for a wrestling figure of a certain character. Then when it finally gets made, it looks nothing like the wrestler.
And the articulation makes him look like the hunchback of Notre Dame. Would he like the statement, you got your figure so like it!?
 
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The blanket statement "you wanted Pizza", "you got pizza" is about one of the most ignorant mentalities I seen. It's a bad as saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If I was in a desert and asked for water, yes I'd be happy with water. But this argument isn't as simple as that, now is it.

Maybe if I explain it like this. WWEJedi has waited years for a wrestling figure of a certain character. Then when it finally gets made, it looks nothing like the wrestler.
And the articulation makes him look like the hunchback of Notre Dame. Would he like the statement, you got your figure so like it!?
It's a $13 figure. What do you expect, a 3.75" figuart? Expectations need to be in line with reality. I think wave 1 is freat, Wave 2 will be better.
 
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Just catching up. I think those that voiced criticism about certain issues with the figures aren't as upset as others making them out to be. I made a couple comments, some jokingly. Sorry, the hips on Finn and Poe look ugly. There's no denying it but I am not devastated over it. I think most people's grievance with these issues pretty much end at their comments. Still buying the figures as they are vastly better than the 5 POA figures.
 
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The blanket statement "you wanted Pizza", "you got pizza" is about one of the most ignorant mentalities I seen. It's a bad as saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If I was in a desert and asked for water, yes I'd be happy with water. But this argument isn't as simple as that, now is it.

Maybe if I explain it like this. WWEJedi has waited years for a wrestling figure of a certain character. Then when it finally gets made, it looks nothing like the wrestler.
And the articulation makes him look like the hunchback of Notre Dame. Would he like the statement, you got your figure so like it!?
Look: if you're going to commit to this analogy then commit to it consistently. The argument has never been "you wanted pizza; you got pizza." It's that you wanted a particular kind of pizza and you got that particular kind of pizza, but it wound up being served in a way that you still didn't like.

We wanted a super-articulated Finn figure. We wanted it articulated at the neck, the shoulders, the elbows, the wrists, the torso or waist, the hips, the knees, and the ankles. We got a Finn figure articulated at the neck, the shoulders, the elbows, the wrists, the torso, the hips, and the ankles. The hip articulation looks ugly. If you were taking John Boyega's hips to be the defining element of his appearance then I'll grant you your psychologically unlikely victory.

I can't speak for anyone else. My objection is to the hyperbolic "it looks nothing like the character!" gasping that makes us all look like caricatures of the Simpsons' Comic Book Guy. To equivocate aesthetically disruptive articulation with looking "nothing like" the character, or making the character look like a movie monster, just gives the people who might have an effect on how these things get made less reason to pay attention to criticisms raised here.
 
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Anybody else wish Hasbro would make pizza-flavored action figures?
 
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They made a pretty cool Marvel Legends Spider-Man that came with a slice of pizza.
 
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Look: if you're going to commit to this analogy then commit to it consistently. The argument has never been "you wanted pizza; you got pizza." It's that you wanted a particular kind of pizza and you got that particular kind of pizza, but it wound up being served in a way that you still didn't like.

We wanted a super-articulated Finn figure. We wanted it articulated at the neck, the shoulders, the elbows, the wrists, the torso or waist, the hips, the knees, and the ankles. We got a Finn figure articulated at the neck, the shoulders, the elbows, the wrists, the torso, the hips, and the ankles. The hip articulation looks ugly. If you were taking John Boyega's hips to be the defining element of his appearance then I'll grant you your psychologically unlikely victory.

I can't speak for anyone else. My objection is to the hyperbolic "it looks nothing like the character!" gasping that makes us all look like caricatures of the Simpsons' Comic Book Guy. To equivocate aesthetically disruptive articulation with looking "nothing like" the character, or making the character look like a movie monster, just gives the people who might have an effect on how these things get made less reason to pay attention to criticisms raised here.
My gripe about the hips has less to do with how they look and everything to do with how they operate. If I hadn't made that clear, I apologize.

It's pretty much the only criticism I have when it comes to the 4" SA figures that use that construction. I repeat it because we already know they can do better, and it's confusing why they don't. I bet ball and socket hips cost less to manufacture than swivel hinge.
 
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Well I guess I am in the minority, I actually really like this figure.
I do too despite the hips, and even then once in hand it probably won't look nearly as bad as I am seeing this. I remember this happening to the ROTS Vader from the BS. Pictures looked horrid and then it turned out to be the best Vader figure ever, surpassing the VC 93 one IMO, which was hard to top.
 
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Like the figure too. Not a fan of this new hip articulation (classic swivel was just fine) but it's clearly much, much more attractive than the 5 POA version. Finn gonna spend some time on my desk along Rey, Poe, Ren, storm and all other TFA characters Hasbro will add to this series. Just hoping i won't have to pay a premium to get them.
 
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It's all very absurd. For the most part on the 6 pages of this thread, the figure is well recieved. There are like two jokes about it looking like other actors, and a few users saying while they are grateful to be getting SA Finn, they were less then happy with how Hasbro approached the hips. WWEJedi, called this "*****ing", and started the "you asked for SA you got it" comments, which is completely irrational and ignorant. Also no one had a hyperbolic "that looks nothing like the figure BECAUSE of the hips" reaction.
 
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I can't wait to get him. Even with the hips I'm sure I can get him in a decent action pose that will make him look impressive. Great likeness, great posability. My only complaint is that Walmart needs to release the darn things so I can start building my Force Awakens collection!
 
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Also no one had a hyperbolic "that looks nothing like the figure BECAUSE of the hips" reaction.
To return to my original point:

If you ordered a pizza with pepperoni and got a pizza with mushrooms, wouldn't you say something?
Maybe if I explain it like this. WWEJedi has waited years for a wrestling figure of a certain character. Then when it finally gets made, it looks nothing like the wrestler.
There are only two ways to interpret these analogies: (1) as saying that the SA Finn figure is sufficiently wrong, in whatever sense, to be wholly different from a proper Finn figure (i.e., a mushroom rather than pepperoni, or a likeness "nothing like" some unnamed wrestler), or (2) as false analogies. Since the analogies continue to be defended, the principle of disjunctive inference demands that the first interpretation be the one intended. Given that the point of contention was (in part) over the aesthetics of the hips, as evidenced here:

Changing the cut of the figures hip articulation or the type of hip articulation directly impacts the aesthetics of the figure and or the use of the articulation
I don't see how a rational debater could reasonably infer anything other than what you say no one has said.

Again: I'm not defending any "eat what you're served" principle, nor do I even disagree that the figure we're getting could (and probably should) have looked better. All I'm saying is that if you want change then this is not the way to ask for it, and if you just want to complain then there are at least more valid ways to do that.
 
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To return to my original point:





There are only two ways to interpret these analogies: (1) as saying that the SA Finn figure is sufficiently wrong, in whatever sense, to be wholly different from a proper Finn figure (i.e., a mushroom rather than pepperoni, or a likeness "nothing like" some unnamed wrestler), or (2) as false analogies. Since the analogies continue to be defended, the principle of disjunctive inference demands that the first interpretation be the one intended. Given that the point of contention was (in part) over the aesthetics of the hips, as evidenced here:



I don't see how a rational debater could reasonably infer anything other than what you say no one has said.

Again: I'm not defending any "eat what you're served" principle, nor do I even disagree that the figure we're getting could (and probably should) have looked better. All I'm saying is that if you want change then this is not the way to ask for it, and if you just want to complain then there are at least more valid ways to do that.
The analogy was really just made in response to the comments saying "you got what you asked for", which came across as "shut up". The point was, "when something is off, don't you feel like you should say it?

Also, for me, it's nothing to do with aesthetics. I think the hips on all the new figures look fine. It's all about function. They way they engineer the hips is odd and unnecessary.
 
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The analogy was really just made in response to the comments saying "you got what you asked for", which came across as "shut up". The point was, "when something is off, don't you feel like you should say it?
Also, for me, it's nothing to do with aesthetics. I think the hips on all the new figures look fine. It's all about function. They way they engineer the hips is odd and unnecessary.
That's fair enough. To your credit, you admitted that the original point might have been overstated. But it's since been co-opted to less defensible ends.
 
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Well I guess I am in the minority, I actually really like this figure.
I don't think you're in the minority, because I like it too. Never said I didn't. I just feel he could have looked better w/o those awkward hips, and torso joint.
I am fine how all the figures turned out, and will buy them. Except for Han.

I think it's just par for the course, with all the negativity lately. For people to jump to conclusion, simply because others critique a figure.
I guess we're just supposed to blindly accept everything, flaws and all as well as be thankful to even get it.

Not once was I harsh or negative about these figures. Simply vocalizing a route I wished they had taken instead, concerning the joints.
 
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I don't even understand wave 1. There's so MANY THINGS about it that don't make any sense. Any explanation I've read here is easily shot down. I really wish someone could provide a hypothetical explanation that can't be shot down so I could feel better about this line.

1. Why was this line kept a secret even after Sept.4th event? I know Hasbro released some kind of statement shortly after Force Friday but this line received no promotional material.

2. Why didn't Hasbro release these as part of Sept. 4th event(as one of their press releases oddly claims)?

3. Why did Hasbro launch this line with Repacks of characters that were recently and widely available? (At least Vader she Chewbacca were).

4. Why did Hasbro use a version of Darth Vader that is 10 years old?

5. Why didn't Hasbro at least update/correct Lukes robe as some incentive to buy this again?

6. Why did they launch this "collector" line with Repacks at all?

7. Why are they in such a costly package if these figures are so costly to produce and sell?

8. Why weren't ANY TFA characters part of wave 1?
I'll try and make up some answer that you can shoot down.

1. Hasbro wanted us to go out and buy 5 poa and 6" figures because we would easily get caught up in the whole FF frenzy. Who's going to go out at midnight and not buy anything?

2. Were there any Hasbro SW exclusives available on the 4th? I can't remember, but I don't think there were. So, by making this an exclusive, they could use that excuse. If I'm wrong, then see the answer to #1.

3. No real clue here. I can't understand it and I'm not sure Hasbro could really gives us an answer. I guess they'd say that WM wanted known characters, but that really can't fly because the 5 poa and 6" lines were full of TFA characters. I guess it could go back to the answer from #1 as well.

4. Hasbro wanted to Keep the costs down and the profits higher for this line or maybe that Vader is at the same factory as Luke and Chewie. It's possible Hasbro asked for a different Vader, but the factory just grabbed this one or decided this one would be cheaper for them.

5. Hasbro figured those that have him and won't buy him are not the target customer for this figure or Hasbro doesn't realize the claok is wrong or they're just being lazy or they didn't want to put out any more Money for a repack because they needed the Money for the TFA figures (cost cutting) or Hasbro just doesn't care becauase enough People will just go out and buy.

6. This question could be used for a number of figures over the last few years. I really don't know. I think that it probably would have been cheaper to just repack the new TFA figures a number of times this fall because collectors really like new characters. Start with Leia, Kylo, and the stormtrooper as wave 1 and then repack Kylo and the stormtrooper more often in the following waves. My only possile answer was that WM wanted established characters, but that falls flat because of the 6" line-up.

7. That's a real head scratcher. I think they want the packaging to justify the Price. If the packaging Looks all big and Special (to me it's a step above the first TBS Cards), then People that haven't been around for a few years, might be impresed.

8. There is no answer to this one. There is no way that Hasbro can justify this outside of coming cleaning and admitting that they wanted us to buy 5 poa and 6" Versions first, knowing we'd also buy These as well.
 
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I should add that I don't have any Problems with People buying 5 poa or 6" if that's what they like. My Problem lies in the fact that those of us that prefer 3.75" figures with enhanced articulation really had to endure a lot over the last 6-9 months from Hasbro. At any of the cons and TFs Hasbro reps could have told us, there will be 3.75" TBS figures from the whole saga inclusing TFA in the fall in some form. That really could have made a big difference for many of us. I understand wanting to Keep some things secret, but to me, I really think Hasbro's plan was to get us to buy 5 poa and 6" because we thought there wouldn't be anything else.
I don't mind them wanting to make Money, but if we look at the aftermath of MM/FF, I'm sure there are some Kids that like the 5 poa figures, who weren't able to get any because a bunch of adult collectors cleared the shelves because they were afraid that would be it.
 
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This is the Black Series figure that I am least happy with out of what we've seen so far. I will definitely buy him, but the hip articulation is definitely wonky looking at this scale. I may mess around with fitting the upper body of this one onto the lower body of the 5poa figure. It would sacrifice articulation below the waist, but he could at least hold his rifle well. Now I'm talking myself into buying extras of a figure that I'm not really in love with. lol.
 
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This is the Black Series figure that I am least happy with out of what we've seen so far. I will definitely buy him, but the hip articulation is definitely wonky looking at this scale. I may mess around with fitting the upper body of this one onto the lower body of the 5poa figure. It would sacrifice articulation below the waist, but he could at least hold his rifle well. Now I'm talking myself into buying extras of a figure that I'm not really in love with. lol.
The easier solution would probably be to transplant the arms and lower legs onto the 5poa, in all honesty. Perfectly cutting out below the shirt of both figures will be a tedious nightmare. I did it when I added articulation to the 5poa Age of Ultron Cap and it took forever.

But if you've got patience and want the ab crunch, I say go for it.
 
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The easier solution would probably be to transplant the arms and lower legs onto the 5poa, in all honesty. Perfectly cutting out below the shirt of both figures will be a tedious nightmare. I did it when I added articulation to the 5poa Age of Ultron Cap and it took forever.

But if you've got patience and want the ab crunch, I say go for it.

LOL, yes, I have had to put some weird and unexpected amounts of upper body strength to pull of certain customs as well.
 
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To return to my original point:





There are only two ways to interpret these analogies: (1) as saying that the SA Finn figure is sufficiently wrong, in whatever sense, to be wholly different from a proper Finn figure (i.e., a mushroom rather than pepperoni, or a likeness "nothing like" some unnamed wrestler), or (2) as false analogies. Since the analogies continue to be defended, the principle of disjunctive inference demands that the first interpretation be the one intended. Given that the point of contention was (in part) over the aesthetics of the hips, as evidenced here:



I don't see how a rational debater could reasonably infer anything other than what you say no one has said.

Again: I'm not defending any "eat what you're served" principle, nor do I even disagree that the figure we're getting could (and probably should) have looked better. All I'm saying is that if you want change then this is not the way to ask for it, and if you just want to complain then there are at least more valid ways to do that.
Your argument is hinged on the idea that I am defending Masterfett's analogy as well as Xfamous's. I am not, and I agree that Masterfett's analogy about the wwe wrestlers likeness is incorrect. I do however maintain defense of Xfamous's analogy.

By defending Xfamous's analogy I am making the point that the impact of changing the shape of pepperoni on a pizza is not comparable to the potential impact the execution of hip articulation has on a figure. The shape of the pepperoni is negligible on a pizza whereas the execution of the hip articulation is not. This does not however specify to what degree this impact has in this particular case on this Finn figure. It only specifies that for the analogies sake, there is a significant difference in the potential impact between shape of pepperoni on a pizza vs execution of hip articulation on a figure. You're making an assumption that because hip articulation COULD significantly impact the aesthetics of the figure as well as the use and function of the articulation itself, in this particular case with Finn, it HAS. So to the degree that "it looks nothing like the character/figure". That's simply not the case in my eyes or Xfamous's claim. He simply had concerns about its function. However, if the hip articulation were sufficiently "jacked up", the impact would be far more significant on the figures aesthetics and joint function than say "pepperoni cut in the wrong shape" on a pizza (again, I will give you this, if you changed the analogy to shape AND SIZE, or just size). So no one made the hyperbolic claim that the hip articulation makes the figure look nothing like the character. While I'm not defending Masterfett's WWE analogy, I don't *think he feels that way, rather his analogy was just poorly chosen.

It is also unreasonable for Hasbro to read the comments of a few here, and make "changes" that affect the many people in the hobby. So posting a gripe here would not qualify "asking for change". It's more like just chatting with fellow Rebelscum users.


*I don't know how Masterfett's feels about the hip articulation with regard to whether or not it makes the figure look like the character. I just didn't see that particular claim made, only an incorrect analogy.
 
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Btw the mention of "rational debater", is an ad hominem fallacy. My argument hypothetically would be irrational, not the person debating(me).
 
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I think we can put the analogy discussion to rest and go back to talking about the figure itself.

I have to say, I've been playing around with my 5poa versions of Finn and Poe and I really do like them. I'm happy to have them and they'll look great on my shelf once these new versions come along. These figures I will LOVE and can't wait for them to be released.
 
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I don't mind the hip articulation, based on the pictures it looks like it'll work well. Now if they did that stupid over the top articulation they did on Dagobah Luke then that would suck :p

I'd take this over the 5poa figure any day even if bits of it are a little wonky. He needs to be able to pilot a cobra fang, a 1:18 motorcycle and swing on a web like spidey.
 
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I'd take this over the 5poa figure any day even if bits of it are a little wonky. He needs to be able to pilot a cobra fang, a 1:18 motorcycle and swing on a web like spidey.

I agree 100%. While it appears he had one too many bags of Frito Lay Chips (with the Spirit of Kenobi giveaway promo) I will take this over 5POA any day.
 
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I don't know how Masterfett's feels about the hip articulation with regard to whether or not it makes the figure look like the character. I just didn't see that particular claim made, only an incorrect analogy.
I wasn't making an analogy, I was responding to a post WWEJedi made. Basically the feeling of how someone would like it if they didn't get what they were expecting. It was put into terms that he might understand better.
 
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I wasn't making an analogy, I was responding to a post WWEJedi made. Basically the feeling of how someone would like it if they didn't get what they were expecting. It was put into terms that he might understand better.
So how is that not an analogy?
 
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I agree 100%. While it appears he had one too many bags of Frito Lay Chips (with the Spirit of Kenobi giveaway promo) I will take this over 5POA any day.
I think we've got the perfect spokesfigure for the next Frito Lays Potato Chips give away, then. I smell a pennant!!!!
 
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