Fake CIV Medallion?

Ross_C · Jul 17, 2007

I finally received my last medallion I needed to complete my set. It looks quite odd to me, after seeing and handling hundreds of these personally at c4 AND CE. Its lighter in weight, about 3/4 the thickness and the lettering not as clear as other c4 medallions. It does not have the same polished finish, and in fact is quite stippled on either side. It has very different "feel" to it and just looks way crappier overall than any other c4 or CE medallion. The seller took forever to ship to me and gave quite unbeleiveable excuses as to why (ie the PO sent back because they dont send "coins" in the mail). The baggie it came with looks like hell, and if you look at the "c" in princess and the "s" in star there are slight chunks missing. Its a little smaller in diameter than most, moreso than any normal variation Ive seen, its also out of round at places and oddly banged up like you took it and rubbed one end here and there till it rubbed away inwards to ward the center..almost as if it was soft like pure gold...I could go on and on..let me know your thoughts?

CommTech · Jul 18, 2007

Aw man! This totally sucks! I knew this would happen eventually.

I don't know, the front part doesn't look too bad. Could be just that the person didn't take care of it. But the lettering on the back looks very suspicious. It does seem like they made a mold of an original and it didn't hold the right contours and edges of each letter, but instead they got all rounded.

Shivannd · Jul 18, 2007

Best thing for you to do is find another medallion and compare it, but since these things are stamped out on a soft metal, there are going to be inconsistancies, IE a piece of dust got in the dye, poor punch, etc. You may just have a very early one or a very late one in the dye punch process. Now I am not saying that it isnt a fake but I would research it a little more and possibly contact the company that produced the medallions for CIV and CE.

Dustin · Jul 18, 2007

I've asked Ron Salvatore ( coin Sponsor ) to stop by and take a peek too. I've a feelin' it is fake.

Shivannd · Jul 18, 2007

So Dustin....what happens if it is a fake?

Dustin · Jul 18, 2007

Shivannd said:
So Dustin....what happens if it is a fake?

I hope he didn't pay a lot for it!

Ross_C · Jul 18, 2007

not enough to make me cry, although was charged $10 to ship and it only cost $1 on the package

Dustin · Jul 18, 2007

Vaccaros said:
not enough to make me cry, although was charged $10 to ship and it only cost $1 on the package

Oh that burns me! I can't stand it when sellers do that!

efranks · Jul 18, 2007

Shivannd said:
Best thing for you to do is find another medallion and compare it, but since these things are stamped out on a soft metal, there are going to be inconsistancies, IE a piece of dust got in the dye, poor punch, etc. You may just have a very early one or a very late one in the dye punch process. Now I am not saying that it isnt a fake but I would research it a little more and possibly contact the company that produced the medallions for CIV and CE.

Actually, they weren't stamped they were poured into a mold made of a rubbery material. So damage from a used punch wouldn't be the issue here. Plus they only made 350 giveaways of each coin plus presenter and sponser sets so even if they were punched I wouldn't think damage would have been done after so few pieces were produced.

This is either a piece that got messed up during polishing and finishing or it's a fake. Hopefully Ron will swing by and post his opinion on this.

E...

ronsalvatore · Jul 20, 2007

Just saw Dustin's post. Given the generally poor appearance of the medallion and the poster's description, I'd say it's very likely to be a bootleg. There are way too many differences between the official medallions and what we're seeing here.

However, it's worthwhile to keep in mind that the official medallions were cast and do vary from piece to piece. They aren't all going to be exactly a like.

But loss of detail like that? Not in any of the legit medallions I saw. No self-respecting custom coin maker would turn out something like that.

ron

adamata · Jul 20, 2007

Was this obtained from an Ebay seller or a RS member?

Ross_C · Jul 20, 2007

ebay...working on my dispute atm...

ronsalvatore · Jul 20, 2007

efranks said:
Shivannd said:

Best thing for you to do is find another medallion and compare it, but since these things are stamped out on a soft metal, there are going to be inconsistancies, IE a piece of dust got in the dye, poor punch, etc. You may just have a very early one or a very late one in the dye punch process. Now I am not saying that it isnt a fake but I would research it a little more and possibly contact the company that produced the medallions for CIV and CE.

Click to expand...

Actually, they weren't stamped they were poured into a mold made of a rubbery material. So damage from a used punch wouldn't be the issue here. Plus they only made 350 giveaways of each coin plus presenter and sponser sets so even if they were punched I wouldn't think damage would have been done after so few pieces were produced.

This is either a piece that got messed up during polishing and finishing or it's a fake. Hopefully Ron will swing by and post his opinion on this.

E...

Right, they're cast from a silicone mold. The mold is a disc with coins all around the diameter. The molten pewter enters at the center. I'm not 100% sure of the process, but I believe the way it works is that the mold spins and the centrifugal force causes the pewter to move out into all the nooks and crannies. They might also do this within a vacuum chamber to alleviate air pockets.

This one here looks more like someone got some RTV mold-making rubber and poured it over an existing medallion. Then, using the mold he just made, hand-poured pewter and let it cool. That's why you see so much dodgy detail in the smaller crannies (especially the lettering on the reverse).

You know, if the place that produced the medallions had a botched casting, it might turn out looking something sort of like this. But given all the other data points the poster provides (different material, odd diameter, weird excuses from the seller), I'm really thinking this is bogus.

ron

bikerscout · Jul 20, 2007

C.S.I.: Star Wars

jerry bruckheimer's eyes light up with $ signs -lol

Dark_Elling · Jul 20, 2007

My first reaction is also that this medallion is a fake.

I have seen many of these coins at CE and CIV and they have all been of very good and consistant quality. The letters on the back of this medallion is what really stands out though. On a legit medallion, each letter, the space between each letter, etc is very well defined. This medallion isn't and is even missing some of the letters.

Nick_Macarty · Jul 21, 2007

You can see here on the Archive the process, and how sharp they are supposed to be..

-Nick

Fantasticmrcox · Jul 21, 2007

Hi guys i thought i would post my experience on this. I'm a ex metal fettler. and i'm currently a professional steel polisher.
When these are took out of the moulds there can be several factors to take into account. I assume they were all poured at the same time. The temp plays a big role in this as well as the metal compound if it was at the end of the pour the mix could be off but only very slighty.

But when they are taken out of the mould they were then sand blasted, They could of been mechanicaly sandblasted or blasted by hand. If they were mechanicaly blasted where they were placed on the table can affect the blasting because some might get a higher concentration of sand. If they were done by hand then you can spend to much time on a coin and wear the metal away, and you have to be carefull of sand surgess as well. This could of been the first coin they worked on and they were yet to learn the best way of cleaning it up. The learning curve of blasting and fettling can be a hard one to master. the fettler could of used a new disc on his grinder for the cleaning the flash(excess metal) of the coin. And disc could of been a too higher grit rating and then changed the disc.

You see there is a lot of factors to take into account when these are made. If thre are any question you want answering on the process give us a shout.

But the best way to check is to get 2 coins next to each other. Do anyone know what metal these were cast in??????

But on my opinon teh back of the coin looks like a remould and a fake BUT!!! it could of come from a bad pour. They were no doubt loads of these coins throw away because they didn't make the grade so this could be one of them. It's a world of maybes and could of be's

michael_mensinger · Jul 21, 2007

_Coxie_ wrtote:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Do anyone know what metal these were cast in??????

[/QUOTE]

The C4 and CE medallions are cast in pewter.

-Mike

ChrisGeorgoulias · Jul 22, 2007

That thing looks bogus to me. I had a feeling we'd see fakes floating around, but not this soon. The problems this thing has (3/4 thickness of an original, pitting, incomplete lettering, muddy details) are beyond the variations which arise from being spin-cast and hand-polished as the originals are.

I've sent this to the supplier to get his input on it as well.

-chris

Ross_C · Aug 7, 2007

Hello,

An update on this situation. Today I received a priority package from the seller, unbeknownst to me that he was sending. Sceptical as I was I had the postmaster's representative witness me opening the package and examining its contents. To my surprise the seller sent me a new Leia medallion. Wow, what a nice and understanding individual. Unfortunately he sent me ANOTHER FAKE. You will see in these pics the similar flaws and lack of quality as the first fake he sent me. Its lighter than the first fake, closer in color to a real medallion, but still horribly pitted, lighter and out of round. The lettering as you see is wretched.

Chris, would it be possible to send you both coins to show "the maker" supplier as it were for him to verify? I would like a letter from him, possibly faxed to me then snail-mailed, to further support my dispute with the sellr. I can send you the pertinent info in PM. I will of course out this person when my claim is completed and I am watching him as I would not want anyone else to be had like I was.

Dark_Elling · Aug 7, 2007

Wow! that's crazy. Not only did he send you a fake the first time, but to add insult to injury he sends you a second! and not to try and correct the problem, but to try and further hose you by providing him a tracking number to your address. Be sure to post his user ID when your done and let us know if, or when he posts another fake medallion.

Tigersith · Aug 7, 2007

This just further proves to me that this is a fake. At first I wasn't sure exactly. I was able to aquire a set of these in the panels at C4 and I can tell you this one and the first one look alot different than my Leia! The back of the medallion has to be the complete clue. The letters look really rubbed and not complete on the end of each sentence.

The part I hate most about this is you don't have the Leia medallion. It's just wrong. I love my set and got the frame to go along with it and they look great on diplay in my living room. I wish you nothing but good luck on this! Please post all this losers info after this is over so we will know who to look out for.

Tiger

Nick_Macarty · Aug 10, 2007

Try scratching it with an actual coin, and see if it scratches/gauges easy. If it does, then it's fake, as Pewter will not scratch so easily. if not at all.

-Nick

Ross_C · Aug 10, 2007

Hey Nick, well even if they were pewter they'd still be fake..nonetheless I did test it as you suggested and it scratches easily with even light pressure on any surface or edge, like it was soft.

Nick_Macarty · Aug 10, 2007

Vaccaros said:
Hey Nick, well even if they were pewter they'd still be fake..nonetheless I did test it as you suggested and it scratches easily with even light pressure on any surface or edge, like it was soft.

Sounds like they are made of White metal, which is widely used to make casts, usualy Warhammer etc.

Reaon I mentioned the test is because we had somthing simmilar in the UK. We replaced our £1 bank notes with £1 coins, and a load of fake coins turned up, but you could tell them apart by scratching them in the same way. After which, they all seem'd to vanish.

Might be worth mentioning to the seller, why his medallions scratch easily, where as the original pewter one's don't.

-Nick

ThorOakenfelder · Aug 10, 2007

please post the seller's name in the watchout section. if you haven't already. I think we'd all like to know that one.

ronsalvatore · Aug 10, 2007

There's no way he got two bum casts randomly while at CIV (or through any other venue). The odds of that happening are just really, really low. I'm sure he (or someone he knows) is making them.

This one is considerably better than the other one, but it's still a dog.

ron

Ross_C · Aug 10, 2007

Thanks for the input. Still waiting to see if Chris G can help me out. I will post the seller as soon as my claims with him are done. I'm beyond any civil communication with him as he simply does not respond. I have not seen him sell anything as of late. I wil say he operates out of Orange, Ca. and otherwise seems to be reputable..to a degree

ChrisGeorgoulias · Aug 11, 2007

Sorry, I didn't see this until you updated the link in the vintage section.

I can help you out, but I think it all may be moot because your guy seems to be the one that made the thing. If he went that far to scam someone then even having the word of the manufacturer might not be enough.

I would like to see it and I can send it to the manufacturer. They were keenly interested in it when I reported this earlier.

I don't know if this will help or not, but one way you can test this is to bend the medallion. The real ones are pewter and they can be bent. If Nick's correct and it's that white metal, it will likely break.

You can email me directly and we can work through this.

-chris

Ross_C · Aug 11, 2007

OMG yeah I never thought about bending it...i tried that and it started to make a horrible crinkling sound right away with very little pressure... i'll PM you the details, and thanks

Ross_C · Aug 14, 2007

outing this scammer now

jedi-exclusives on ebay

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more info if you want it

*Personal information removed as per Rebelscum Rules and guidlines. -ADMIN

If anyone wants more information regarding this individual, please request via PM. Thanks!