Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back - BR Version

Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,337
Reaction score
19
Post comments about modifications, likes, dislikes, special features, etc. about the Blu Ray version here.
 
The Empire Strikes Back- Just like the film itself the quality of the picture and sound in 'Empire' is truly exceptional. The details are of the same standard as modern motion pictures and the film grain is almost non-existent (seems like they utilized great film stock). Overall this film looks and sounds great from it's dramatic opening to its dramatic close - the film speaks for itself. Perhaps the greatest film in cinema history in high resolution needs no detailing or explaining - it is simply awesome.
 
Last edited:
Hmmm, not too many comments about ESB. I guess it's still perfect as is.
 
Hmmm, not too many comments about ESB. I guess it's still perfect as is.

Not to DB.....LOL!

I still despise the extended Wampa sequence. And how hard is it to fix Luke's saber sound shutting off when it is clearly still on as he exits the Wampa cave? Still dislike the Vader / Emperor scene...dialogue. Gimmie the 1980 version of this any day. The Boba voice change, sigh.
 
Not to DB.....LOL!

I still despise the extended Wampa sequence. And how hard is it to fix Luke's saber sound shutting off when it is clearly still on as he exits the Wampa cave? Still dislike the Vader / Emperor scene...dialogue. Gimmie the 1980 version of this any day. The Boba voice change, sigh.

Yeah, I agree some of those special edition changes suck, but I didn't find any flaws with the BR version.

Finally got around to seeing "A Conversation with the Masters" documentary and that was as boring as hell. It was sad seeing Kershner on camera though since he'd passed away somewhat recently.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I agree some of those special edition changes suck, but I didn't find any flaws with the BR version.

Finally got around to seeing "A Conversation with the Masters" documentary and that was as boring as hell. It was sad seeing Kershner on camera though since he'd passed away somewhat recently.

I disagree violently...the "A Conversation with the Masters" doc is the gem of the non deleted scene related bonus material.
 
The details are of the same standard as modern motion pictures and the film grain is almost non-existent (seems like they utilized great film stock).

I believe when films are correctly transferred to Blu-Ray there is a computer program involved which mathmatically eliminates or diminishes the original film frame's grain stock. I'm certainly not a film tech student or professional, but I read that back when they initially announced this DVD set.
 
I believe when films are correctly transferred to Blu-Ray there is a computer program involved which mathmatically eliminates or diminishes the original film frame's grain stock. I'm certainly not a film tech student or professional, but I read that back when they initially announced this DVD set.

Its called Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) and it the film that suffers most from it's use on this set is AOTC. One of the noticeable problems with this technology is that it often becomes overzealous in its reduction of grain and noise and creates a picture that looks almost painted and is most apparent on human skin tones and makes people look waxy. I’d almost rather have the noise and grain.
 
Finished ESB - two things occurred to me on this viewing maybe because of that "fresh" bluray feeling:

1. The bounty hunter scene occurs too early really. I mean, at that moment they are pursuing the Falcon, it hasn't gotten away yet. They basically have them in their sights and yet Vader has convened a meeting of these guns for hire to get him? I guess he was seeing the future or something? I think editing wise it could almost occur after the Falcon hides and they think they've lost them, and the garbage dumping scene.


2. It never occurred to me either that until Cloud City, Vader and Luke had never actually met face to face. They'd fought against each other in space and Luke had blasted the door Vader was heading for after fighting with Kenobi, but that was it. I don't know why I never noticed this before.

3. How passionate Yoda was when speaking about the Force (the luminous beings are we speech). Man, everybody in the OT was so "in the moment" it's awesome. There's real feelings being emoted there!

Yeah, somewhat random I know, but just wanted to throw those out there.
 
Actually when the bounty hunter scene occurs they have lost track of the Falcon in the asteroid field. Moreover, seeing the incompetence of his subordinates, it makes sense he would try using bounty hunters.
 
Actually when the bounty hunter scene occurs they have lost track of the Falcon in the asteroid field. Moreover, seeing the incompetence of his subordinates, it makes sense he would try using bounty hunters.

I have no problem with the order in which that happened. Had Vader brought in the Bounty Hunters AFTER the fleet left the asteroid field and the falcon had drifted off with their garbage then Fett could not have gotten the jump on Solo in the way he did which was just classic and awesome just the way it is.

Also it seems like Vader has Fett and some of them on speed dial and had used them for other projects (no disintegrations).
 
Well, wait a second. The "unrealistic" use of time in that sequence is already there. They lose the Falcon in the asteroids and almost immediately call in the bounty hunters who are there instantly versus losing them on the back of an SD and calling in the bounty hunters who are almost there instantly. Either way there is something funny going on. I'm just saying that logically you wouldn't necessarily give up on your own legions when you've got them cornered. You'd give up when the Falcon disappeared as if it had a cloaking device and might be able to outwit a fleet but perhaps not a shrewd gun for hire.

As it is, they are on the edge of the asteroid field, they know the Falcon is in there, it is isn't like they don't know roughly where they are and ALREADY Vader is calling in the last ditch attempt? Then in the scene immediately after the bounty hunter scene we see a Star Destroyer pursing the Falcon that had to leave the cave so Vader's ship would obviously have been notified that they had them and that he had jumped the gun on brining in scum for hire. Then after Han sticks the Falcon to the back of the Destroyer we don't know how much time passes before the garbage is dumped. It is really at that point that the Imperials assume they've lost them and have to tell Vader. We have not only another Yoda scene to allow a sense of time passing to occur but also the scene of the guy going to tell Vader they've lost them and paying for it with his life. PLENTY OF TIME to gather the bounty hunters, just as much time as he had between losing them in the asteroid field and that scene anyway! So here's how I think it logically makes more sense:

Lose Falcon in asteroids.
Vader puts bounty hunters on stand by in case but does not call them in just yet.
Falcon has to escape cave because its alive and the Imperials find them again.
Falcon hides on back of SD but the Imperials think he's cloaked and escaped.
Vader is notified and he calls in the "on call" bounty hunters to meet with him personally.
They arrive and he meets with them and lays out the terms.
Meanwhile, concurrently to all that, Han and company are trying to repair the drive and wait for the fleets next move.
(cut away to Yoda and Luke, more time passing)
Fett has already figured it out and goes immediately to his ship and prepares to become "garbage".
Fleet is told the bounty hunters are away and they can now go into hyperspace. Dump garbage, float away...

All I'm saying is the calling in of the BHs is slightly premature given they still had hope they were in the asteroid field and had no indication they'd made it out yet.
 
Last edited:
Having hope they'd still be in the asteroid field is not enough, it's huge and there's not one only way to get out of there, the Empire certainly needs help to find them in there. Proof is the only guy who finds them is Boba Fett. I don't see how all this is unrealistic, it's not like they got every bounty hunter in the galaxy on board in 15 minutes. 25 real-time minutes have passed since they lost track of the Falcon, we can pretty much assume a lot more time has passed in the story.
 
Last edited:
It is not unrealistic. I meant it is not any more unrealistic a time frame to say "Ooops! They slipped into an asteroid field! Call in the bounty hunters!" than to say "Oops! They disappeared and must have a cloaking device! Call in the bounty hunters!" Either way "time passes". I was just arguing that how much time passes would seem to be vague in both cases. I don't have a major problem with the film as it is (obviously!!!) just that it hit me that the better place for that call in the BHs scene might have been after having totally lost them and not just having cornered them to an asteroid field (one would seem "they are hidden in there" to "they are totally gone and no longer appearing on the scopes"). I don't think it was a "hope" they were there otherwise they wouldn't have stuck around so long bombing etc. I think we are given the impression that they know they're in there somewhere! But yeah, no real reason to have it changed, just a thought experiment really.
 
Last edited:
I don't think Vader had to look far & wide to get the bounty hunters together. Don't forget that all of the bounty hunters were presumably already looking for Han, having been hired by Jabba on a 'wanted alive' reward basis. So when the Imperials located them on Hoth first, it makes sense that the bounty hunters would be swooping in close by to cooperate with the Imperials, hoping to be the one to work out a deal for Han. Boba Fett got Han only because he was the one who managed to lead Vader to them at Cloud City.

Leif
 
I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly or maybe I'm missing my own point! ;) I have no problem with bounty hunters arriving quickly, no problem with them being called in to assist or even just being in the area maybe because they are tracking the Falcon too. I was merely saying story-wise, in terms of the more "appropriate" moment for Vader to call them in would have been, to me, after 30 years of reflection :) after they were VERY gone and not just most likely hiding in the asteroid field. I mean, I guess if the Imperials were ready to move on to something more pressing (what that might be I have no idea...) and wanted to leave some bounty hunters behind to do their thing and see if they could find them in there, I just don't think the Empire was at that point in their need for assistance until "poof" they disappeared off their scopes and seemed to have vanished. Then I could totally buy that Vader would have said, "Well nuts to that! I have no idea where to even begin to look so let's call in the professionals since I don't have the time to Force choke every single one of your sorry behinds!" As it is edited now, I just realized he jumped the gun slightly since it was pretty obvious the Falcon had disappeared in the asteroid field to hide and hadn't been detected leaving yet. But maybe the logic is that they really only left one SD behind on the off-chance/slight possibility that they are still in there were as everyone else is assuming they're already elsewhere and that's why the BHs are called in when they are? I guess that could be it.
 
^
There are a couple things i don't think you are taking into account.

1. They sent in the tie-bombers to flush the falcon out which does not work.
2. Around that same time Palpatine tells Vader to find Luke...this was not a "oh....BTW Darth when you can get around to it...." order. When the Emperor says jump you do it.

Vader was given a more important task and after his fleets own failure to bring him the Faclon he called in the bounty hunters. I don't see any problem with this story structure at all.
 
No nothing major. I'm just saying that putting that scene after the Falcon is definitively GONE would have maybe made it seem just that much more appropriate. But as I said, I haven't had a problem with it for 30 years, just rethinking it for kicks.

EDIT: Ok, so wait, I think there is something even more interesting going on here. Let's say that yes, even though part of the fleet is still at the asteroid field making sure the Falcon isn't there anymore and Vader has decided after speaking with the Emperor that he needs to accelerate this somehow and goes to the BHs, it is interesting to note that immediately after that meeting, in the same scene even, he gets word that "My lord, we have them!" as the Falcon has had to emerge from its hiding place. So, would Vader have turned at that moment and said "Ignore everything I just said" or something to that effect? Maybe. And maybe that makes Fett even cooler for basically thinking 10 steps ahead and guessing that until they actually have Solo in chains they don't have him. So maybe he lingers, goes to where the action in, hides, watches, spots the Falcon do its thing and knows what Solo is up to, knows it will be a way to make a massive impression on Vader, watches him float away with the garbage and then radios it in "I know you said forget it, no deal, but I know where Solo is and where he's going? Wanna know?" So yeah, I guess I buy that Vader in impatience and a sense of urgency from the Emperor might just go on the assumption the Falcon escaped but something in the structuring of showing us the Empire making a pretty big effort and hanging out in the asteroid field I think tends to point the audience in the direction of "They still fully believe they're in there somewhere".
 
Last edited:
Something I did notice when watching ESB in HD was the scene when Han and Leia are talking about the "The Lando System" and a shut down C3PO is in the background the whole shot you can totally tell Anthony Daniels is in the suit breathing the whole time. I thought maybe he was wobbling around in his chair because the falcon was bobbing around a little along with the Star Destroyer but Han and Leia's are not moving in sequence with him at all. It would be a pretty easy fix for them to freeze that part of the screen for the extent of the scene so it looked like C3PO was shut off and totally lifeless.

I know...super nit picky but I could not take my eye off of him once I noticed it.
 
EDIT: Ok, so wait, I think there is something even more interesting going on here. Let's say that yes, even though part of the fleet is still at the asteroid field making sure the Falcon isn't there anymore and Vader has decided after speaking with the Emperor that he needs to accelerate this somehow and goes to the BHs, it is interesting to note that immediately after that meeting, in the same scene even, he gets word that "My lord, we have them!" as the Falcon has had to emerge from its hiding place. So, would Vader have turned at that moment and said "Ignore everything I just said" or something to that effect?

...I am pretty sure the Bounty Hunters were all long gone by that point. What do you think the Hunters just stood there on the bridge sipping tea for a few hours after Vader warned Fett to not disintegrate anyone?
 
I'm going to watch it again but I"m pretty sure that all happens in the same moment. He gives them the "here's what you're to do" speech and then gets told "We have them". Same scene. Maybe you're mixing it up with Robot Chicken when they all start panicking and scrambling to rush off to get to them first and Bossk is delayed because he was the only one who took his shoes off?

EDIT: worse than I thought! IG-88 and Fett are literally in the foreground as Vader is given the news! So turning to them and calling it off would have not involved any tea sipping whatsoever.
 
Last edited:
I'm going to watch it again but I"m pretty sure that all happens in the same moment. He gives them the "here's what you're to do" speech and then gets told "We have them". Same scene. Maybe you're mixing it up with Robot Chicken when they all start panicking and scrambling to rush off to get to them first and Bossk is delayed because he was the only one who took his shoes off?

EDIT: worse than I thought! IG-88 and Fett are literally in the foreground as Vader is given the news! So turning to them and calling it off would have not involved any tea sipping whatsoever.
Yes you are right. Vader gets done giving his pep talk to the hunters and the Imp comes up and says "Lord Vader we found them." When he says "we" he means it in the royal sense of the word because it was a different Star Destroyer in another area of space that discovered the Falcon.
 
But why would Vader tell the bounty hunter to forget it? They are only interested in Han, and Vader is only interested in catching (or luring) Luke. Presumably they worked out a deal to work together. It makes perfect sense to me that Vader would want the bounty hunters fully engaged, as long as they understood that they weren't to disintegrate anyone that was travelling with Han (when Vader tells Boba Fett 'no disintegrations', he's clearly not referring to Han, since he knows they need to take Han back to Jabba alive. Boba confims this later when he tells Vader "he's no good to me dead"). So Vader was clearly intending that the bounty hunters would stay on the job until they both had what they wanted. Regardless of who caught whom, the bounty hunters were getting Han, and the rest were going to Vader.

Besides... I don't believe that "we have them" was meant to be understood as "we have captured them", but rather "we have located them". Vader is smart enough to understand the difference, and that after years of chasing the rebellion across the galaxy, actually catching them was a far greater challenge than locating them.

Leif
 
Last edited:
Again, don't get me wrong, I'm more or less fine with everything as it is and has been...it just occurred to me that the ordering of events with the BHs starts to overlap other developments that would start to make their services seem unnecessary. Why in the middle of space when you have the ship you are looking for right in front of one of your ships and being fired upon would you ask BHs to go "find it and capture it". Wouldn't they just be in the way? Who would jump in between a SD and its prey? They have them means, they have them. They know where it is and it is outgunned and the tractor beam is ready. They were confident they had them at that moment. In fact if not for Han's incredible (and probably physically impossible) move to come at them head on and then hide on their own ship they would have had them. Which is why I think that the more appropriate place for a fully comprehensible call in the BH scene would have been AFTER the Falcon vanished into thin air IMO. But again, I love ESB and think the film works well to make this pretty much a non-issue, just as it makes the time of Luke's training and the events with the Falcon as somewhat "different time frames that then converge" work too! Oh and obviously it is entirely possible that just after that officer comes to Vader with the news that they have them, he does, off camera, turn to the BHs and tell them to hold. Only after the Falcon does disappear does he tell them, ok, go find them. That could easily have happened I suppose even if I still find him calling them in slightly too soon logically speaking.
 
Last edited:
They have them means, they have them. They know where it is and it is outgunned and the tractor beam is ready. They were confident they had them at that moment.

Often in police/detective/military shows the same term, or one similar to it, is often used, and only sometimes does it indicate an actual physical capture. Often all that's meant is "we have exposed them", "we have the goods on them", or "we know where they are". Yes, the Imperial Officer might have been confident that they 'had them', in the sense of 'they are as good as ours'. But what does it mean to Vader?

In ANH, during the DS battle, Vader says of Luke "I have you now...". Yet he didn't actually get Luke. Between ANH and ESB, there was three years of chasing Luke down, and yet never actually catching him. On Hoth the Imperials had the rebels trapped, and again Luke & company escaped. So I think we'd have to assume that Vader is clever enough to understand that "we have them" can mean very little if they manage to escape again... which in fact happens. Notice that Vader doesn't 'punish' anyone after they escape either. He understands that their capture was far from assured in the first place. Plus... he has his 'plan B' thanks to his arrangement with the bounty hunters. Which ultimately proves to be effective.

IMO, it would have been completely out of Vader's character to not keep his 'plan B' alive.

Leif
 
Last edited:
Again, don't get me wrong, I'm more or less fine with everything as it is and has been...

Btw... I understand. We're just having a friendly debate and tossing ideas back and forth. I love these discussions, and for a debate to ensue we need to be able to challenge things. If nothing else, it helps test the validity of things as they stand, and explore alternate ideas & perspectives.

Leif
 
Last edited:
For sure, I just wanted to make sure no one thought I was being sacrilegious with ESB! I guess I just feel comfortable enough in my love for it now that I can get "exploratory!":cupcake:

And no, I don't think Vader would have called off plan B entirely, maybe just asked them to hold and enjoy some snacks and beverages while waiting for his legions to screw it up once again!
 
I guess I just feel comfortable enough in my love for it now that I can get "exploratory!":cupcake:

Just a couple of monkeys throwing poo on the wall.
Seeing which ones stick and which ones fall.

Hey... I'm a poet, and I didn't know it.

:untroubled:
 
I'm about half way through ESB and so far I'm very impressed with the quality. It looks glorious in HD. THe blue tint is still there but it's not as noticable except for the establishing shot outside the Wampa cave. And it seems like the soundtrack is brought more to the forefront. I've never been so attuned to the music in certain parts as I was while watching the BR edition.

Plus, how great is the scene with Han and Liea in the hallway. I love the fact their argument doesn't disrupt the business of the rebellion - people continue to walk past them. To have that type of background action is truly brilliant.
 
Watched that the other day, and oh my God is this a fantastic movie.

The BR looks superb, sounds superb, and I actually like the SE Bespin extensions and the better continuity with the new Emperor scene. The only minor grudge is that the Wampa looked better I think when we saw less of it.

I absolutely love the interaction ebtween the characters in this movie, briliant banter and timing, it's ofte funny without being distracting. And everyone of the main characters gives his/her strongest performance in this movie.
 
.
3. How passionate Yoda was when speaking about the Force (the luminous beings are we speech). Man, everybody in the OT was so "in the moment" it's awesome. There's real feelings being emoted there!

The puppet work with Yoda is brilliant, I love the subtle movement of expression in the head when Yoda is on Luke's back. There's litterally one movement of a few seconds where Yoda's eyes seem to screw up and his head moves forward that expresses so much doubt and uncertainty at Luke's questions of the darkside. It's these tiny bits of movement like this that Pixar's animators understand and excel when bringing their CGi characters to life.

Plus, how great is the scene with Han and Liea in the hallway. I love the fact their argument doesn't disrupt the business of the rebellion - people continue to walk past them. To have that type of background action is truly brilliant.

It's this kind of action that's sorely missed from the prequels on a pure asthetic level, way too much do you get the feeling that Lucas was directing a stage play ('don't walk in front of one another', 'face the audience', 'don't touch the set pieces as they'll fall apart' or because they're cgi thus don't exist yet!) with Empire you get the feeling that the camera is capturing all action in motion rather than the action being 'put on' for the audience's entertainment.

Put simply, The Empire Strikes Back blu-ray is pure cinematic brilliance IMO
 
So I was playing around with some of the new features on the Official Star Wars site when I came across the character page for Tauntauns.The images used are interesting and appear to be a CGI Tauntaun, one I've never seen. It's too detailed for the Clone Wars, and at one point I thought it actually may be a physical model...but I can't decide. Anywho, is this a new update to a future version of Star Wars we didn't see on the blu-ray, or is this tauntaun model from something I'm unaware of?

tauntaun_detail.png
 
Last edited:
the placement of that tail is a bit um....yeah.
That comment is "all you"... ;) :D

I don't recognize it, but it looks CGI to me. I'm guessing it's from a video game or something of the sorts, though it does look too detailed for most SW Games.
 
That comment is "all you"... ;) :D

I don't recognize it, but it looks CGI to me. I'm guessing it's from a video game or something of the sorts, though it does look too detailed for most SW Games.

It's probally from that silly TFU DLC. ;) TOR(The Old Republic) would be a much better guess, though. :)
 
Last edited:
I'm late to this discussion... so hope I'm not dredging up old memories. ;)

My impression on the timing of things is that we see things played out in a linear fashion in the film, but we honestly have no idea the hours, days or even weeks that play out in the events on screen.

When the Falcon goes into the cave in the asteroid - do the Imperials even know for sure that's where they are? I know they bomb it - but given that the fleet is spread throughout the asteroid field and all the TIEs chasing the Falcon were destroyed - I think it's safe to assume the Imperials have no idea they're there and are probably bombing ALL the larger asteroids. That we see them bombing the one with the Falcon is just Imperial dumb-luck.

So Vader - after hours/days/etc. waiting for his navy to find the Falcon gives up. Heck - he doesn't know if they're even in the asteroid field anymore. So he calls in some bounty hunters. While speaking with them Needa's SD finds the Falcon and they immediately report it to Vader. The BH's wait to see what's up and within moments learn that Needa has lost them. So they go their separate ways to try and find their bounty.

To me there's nothing wrong with the timing... not even really much to question. It helps to just realize the Falcon could have been in that asteroid for days and the Empire wasn't even sure where they were. Vader calling in the BH's when he did makes sense. Makes sense that they aren't dispatched after Piett's statement that they have them since it's mere moments later when they vanish from Needa's scopes. Vader probably sent them on their way immediately upon Needa's admission of failure and his choking.
 
Looks like a model Tauntaun to me. Not CGI. I can't place what about it makes me think physical sculpture rather than computer though.
 
Back
Top