Dark PhoeniX

Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
31,203
Reaction score
319
Location
Oregon
Guessing after 50 views and no relies, no one.
For me, I've already seen it on screen twice. Once in Animated form and then in the Last Stand. So I'm in no hurry to see it unfold again, only slightly different.
To me the trailer just looks like more typical Fox fanfare. Another Movie about Raven, Magneto, and Charles under a different name.

What would have made this one a little more interesting, is if the Shiar actually interceded. But it seems they've went a different direction.

The trailer looks okay for what it is, and I will watch it to see how this whole thing comes together or a close.
It's definitely not on my must see list though.
 

GNT

Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2000
Messages
70,428
Reaction score
102
Location
Australia
I only enjoy the X-Men films and I did enjoy the trailer, my only complaint is them jumping 10years after the last movie, the constant jump every movie isn't needed. The actors aren't ageing each film that drastically.

I'm looking forward to the eventual cross over with Marvel Universe but it'll be interesting to see if they reboot or carry over the current actors.
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
1,193
Reaction score
50
Honestly I think there is 0% chance of continuing the actors if X men go to the MCU. It is just much easier to make a new & not figure out what is or isn't cannon.

The trailer looked OK, but I was never a huge X man fan anyways.
 
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
13,528
Reaction score
24
I liked the trailer even though its very evocative of The Last Stand. Its just the release date is so far away I can't get psyched for it right now.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
501
Reaction score
33
I was underwhelmed, although that's a better reaction than I've had to most of the X-Men movies since the third one came out.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,666
Reaction score
483
Location
Pennsylvania
When I saw this trailer hit, I was in shock. I wasn't even sure it was coming out anymore!

I am a diehard Chris Claremont X-Men run fan. It's honestly some of the best stuff in not just Marvel history, but comic book history. Plus it's one HECK of a LONG run. I can't remember, but it might be the longest run on one book for any writer at Marvel. Maybe even over Stan on Amazing Spider-Man. So naturally I am very familiar with the Phoenix Saga and the Dark Phoenix Saga.

So with that said, what concerns me about the trailer is...well way back when The Last Stand came out, it was heavily criticized for not being particular true to either story. What I saw with this wasn't an "apology" for The Last Stand, it looks almost EXACTLY like The Last Stand. Did they just re-make it with a FEW tweaks. "Well...if we add a bit on space, maybe they won't notice!" Now I know some of that stuff from the Phoenix Saga would never work on film, but come on...this is just The Last Stand 2.0.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
3,180
Reaction score
190
Location
SC
I also have to say that I have enjoyed the X-men films, but most of them just seem to come out lacking. They've given us some truly great moments like Nightcrawler in the White House, but then slaughter some characters like Storm or Phoenix.

This trailer was 2 minutes of talking and showing us all the same characters we've seen. There's the mansion, there's cerebro, there's angsty Magneto, there's bald Xavier...

I would give a ZERO percent chance of any of this making it to the MCU as well. I'm currently hoping New Mutants is good and that Venom is good and that perhaps those might stand a chance of being MCU tie ins. (but highly doubt those as well... Sony appears interested in making random offshoot movies)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,286
Reaction score
95
Location
Philadelphia
I also have to say that I have enjoyed the X-men films, but most of them just seem to come out lacking. They've given us some truly great moments like Nightcrawler in the White House, but then slaughter some characters like Storm or Phoenix.

This trailer was 2 minutes of talking and showing us all the same characters we've seen. There's the mansion, there's cerebro, there's angsty Magneto, there's bald Xavier...

I would give a ZERO percent chance of any of this making it to the MCU as well. I'm currently hoping New Mutants is good and that Venom is good and that perhaps those might stand a chance of being MCU tie ins. (but highly doubt those as well... Sony appears interested in making random offshoot movies)
I agree. I've generally enjoyed the X-Men movies for the most part but if you look at the franchise as a whole, it's VERY repetitive. And it's only ever really been concerned with Wolverine, Xavier, Magneto, and once Jennifer Lawrence started playing her, Mystique. Most of the other characters have been treated pretty poorly.

And yeah, there is NO way the MCU has spent a decade building a complex but coherent shared universe just to bog it down with the messy Fox X-Men continuity.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
3,180
Reaction score
190
Location
SC
I agree. I've generally enjoyed the X-Men movies for the most part but if you look at the franchise as a whole, it's VERY repetitive. And it's only ever really been concerned with Wolverine, Xavier, Magneto, and once Jennifer Lawrence started playing her, Mystique. Most of the other characters have been treated pretty poorly.

And yeah, there is NO way the MCU has spent a decade building a complex but coherent shared universe just to bog it down with the messy Fox X-Men continuity.
I'm thinking Marvel starts peppering in a few mutants and doesn't even really acknowledge the X-men as a "Team" or "School" at first. The Avengers worked as a loose collective. Having an official TEAM like the X-men will change the dynamic of the universe too much.

I truly hope Dark Phoenix goes well. I think, however, that it is time to start the X-men over. It was good but I'd like to see what the MCU machine can do with these characters.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
10,260
Reaction score
175
Location
Sayreville NJ
I loved it... the new X-Men movies are my favorite of the series. I'm pumped for Phoenix and can't wait till 2019
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,666
Reaction score
483
Location
Pennsylvania
I have a love/hate relationship with the X-Men films. The original was groundbreaking for the time, despite its flaws, but upon re-watching today it's very dated. I still find it enjoyable, but those flaws are so glaring and not to mention (due to contemporary times) you begin to see all new faults. Storm was always lousy in the film, the infamous "What happens to a toad when it's struck by lightening" line comes to mind. Sabertooth was also questionable at best.

X2 is still sincerely great in my mind. The Nightcrawler opening is unbelievable incredible, the attack on the mansion is a great sequence, and the steal for me is Magneto's break-out.

Last Stand is a film I don't think is nearly as bad as people claim it is, but I also certainly don't think it's good. One thing that always irritated me most was the total dismissal of Cyclops. It's so bad that by the end of the film when they're showing the graves, I half expected there to be Xavier's and Jean's and there's no grave for Scott. Hah! But it's so easy to talk about its flaws, everyone does, instead I'll talk about its shining moments. Grammar was Beast is the stand-out by far, great casting choice. I enjoyed the Angel escape. Magneto's always great. The Iceman vs. Pyro fight was fun, I love finally seeing Bobby in full ice form.

Wolverine Origins is arguably the worst film in the entire franchise. I won't even go into the bad (Gambit's portrayal was embarrassingly bad), like Last Stand, so I will say the positive. They got Sabertooth right, very well acted. About the only saving grave of the film.

The Wolverine I think it an average film. I enjoyed the stuff with him in Japan from the comics, but it's just not a super captivating story either. Not to mention giant mecha Silver Samurai is just...well...pretty corny. I know, I know, there's giant robots everywhere. Just it didn't seem to fit into this story to me.

First Class was a film that honestly, I expected to be pure garbage. I thought they were really reaching bottom of the barrel when I read who was on the team. Banshee, Havok, Angel (not THE Angel), Beast, and Mystique? WHAT!? But then I saw the film and realized, it's essentially Magneto: Origins. This one blew me away, it was far better than expected.

Days of Future Past is my personal favorite and actually one of my favorite superhero films ever. It's a film that sincerely made me get misty-eyed.

Logan is another that just blew me away.

Apocalypse was TERRIBLE in my mind. His entire motivation is...well..."RAWR! I'm bad. BECAUSE!" I hated the film.

So for me, it's a mixed bag between absolutely incredible, mediocrity, and completely awful. Don't even get me started on the continuity though, more like what continuity. Fox tried and you can tell they just, one day, said "Ah screw it!" But when you look at it, the Fox X-Men franchise has now had a nearly two decade long run. That's a heck of an achievement, I believe that takes the record for longest running superhero film franchise. Actually yeah, it does, with Hugh being the actor to play a single superhero the longest as well.

So I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of when retiring with...and I do think it's time to retire the franchise and reboot.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
1,488
Reaction score
43
Location
Central NJ
I'm looking forward to Phoenix, but upon seeing the trailer, I was very disappointed to see them in those boring, generic uniforms from First Class. Apocalypse ended with them all finally wearing uniforms that pretty closely matched the comics/cartoons. Also gone were the boring black leather uniforms from the first three movies & DOFP. I had hoped they'd make one more movie so we could finally see the mutants in all their glory, just like how the Marvel movies have given us pretty spot-on costumes for the heroes & villains (and that includes the Fantastic Four 1 & 2). And now it looks like they're pretty much forgetting all about that and wasting their last opportunity. Here's hoping that what we saw in the trailer is not what we get throughout the actual movie.
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
31,203
Reaction score
319
Location
Oregon
Sony appears interested in making random offshoot movies)
In their defense, they probably don't have the chops to do what MCU is doing and have learned from DC as well as their own mistakes. That this way is just easier.


I have a love/hate relationship with the X-Men films.
I didn't quote the whole post for time constraints. Nice sum up though, and we seem to have the same opinion about the films. Give or take.

TBH, it probably doesn't matter if this is good or not. Regardless of hat happens, I feel it's the last. And dear lord I hope so. lol
I can't wait for someone with competence to take control over this Franchise.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,666
Reaction score
483
Location
Pennsylvania
I didn't quote the whole post for time constraints. Nice sum up though, and we seem to have the same opinion about the films. Give or take.

TBH, it probably doesn't matter if this is good or not. Regardless of hat happens, I feel it's the last. And dear lord I hope so. lol
I can't wait for someone with competence to take control over this Franchise.
The original X-Men films have some absolutely incredible films, it's just that they also have some dog awful ones too. They will always hold a fond place in my heart though. It'll be particularly difficult for me to let go of Patrick Stewart as Xavier. To be honest, if there were to be one carry-over from the old franchise into a new reboot, he'd be my choice. Everyone always made jokes about him being Xavier if they ever did X-Men, then it was announced they were doing it and he WAS cast and the reaction was essentially "Well duh! Of course he is!"

Under the direction of Marvel in-house writers and Disney's MCU staff, X-Men has the potential to be bigger than even Avengers. I mean, I remember a time when X-Men was essentially the bread and butter of Marvel, even overtaking Spider-Man as top dog. They're certainly a force to be reckoned with. But with a reboot comes certain challenges.

The first challenge would be...who do they put on the team? Bryan Singer did a sort of amalgam of the original team and the Giant-Sized team for his first film. I think you're kind of shoo-horned into not doing it entirely comic accurate. If you don't include Wolverine in the first film, people will ask "Where's Wolverine?" The fact is, many of the most popular character were not on the original team. This is why I kind of always defended Singer for sort of making his own canon instead of closely following the comics. With X-Men, I don't think you really can, all you can do it try to nail the caricatures right and pay homage to certain stories. One thing I think should be a focus though is it's the X-Men...not Wolverine and the X-Men.

The second is how to introduce mutants into the MCU. Do you say they were always there and just in hiding? If that's some, is it even possible they'd be so good at hiding they even hid from SHIELD? Do you concoct some reason for their development like, I don't know, when the Chitari invaded some spore or whatever also came through the portal and effected the DNA of certain humans? How will it be done? I really don't know.

Then there's casting. Will casual non-comic readers even accept, say, a non-Hugh Jackman Wolverine? Heaven forbid he be a tiny hairy dude.
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
31,203
Reaction score
319
Location
Oregon
I think that's why First Class went in that direction, because we already seen the original team several times. Problem with that was that I didn't care for that setup, it felt more like an alternate universe to me.

If the MCU absorbs the X-Men, I do feel it will be slightly different than what we've seen. Like mention previously, they'll just pepper in certain characters who work withing the larger story arc. As opposed to doing a proper X-Men team movie. Especially considering they have the Avengers to continue on.
If all goes well they could eventually form a proper team once everyone is introduced, similar to how they approached Avengers. IDK, it's hard to say what they'll do. Like you say, were they always here in hiding from Shield, ala Inhumans? Or was it something else? This is where I felt MAOS failed, they veered off that path after season 1. Of looking for "items" of power or whatever.

Maybe because it' the era I grew up reading about them, but I've always wanted Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Rogue(powered), Gambit, Beast, Iceman, Nighcrawler, and Wolverine as the core team, with other members popping in and out like the Animated series did. I still want to see that in a movie, but I don't think we ever will.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
3,180
Reaction score
190
Location
SC
But with a reboot comes certain challenges.

The first challenge would be...who do they put on the team? Bryan Singer did a sort of amalgam of the original team and the Giant-Sized team for his first film. I think you're kind of shoo-horned into not doing it entirely comic accurate. If you don't include Wolverine in the first film, people will ask "Where's Wolverine?" The fact is, many of the most popular character were not on the original team. This is why I kind of always defended Singer for sort of making his own canon instead of closely following the comics. With X-Men, I don't think you really can, all you can do it try to nail the caricatures right and pay homage to certain stories. One thing I think should be a focus though is it's the X-Men...not Wolverine and the X-Men.

The second is how to introduce mutants into the MCU. Do you say they were always there and just in hiding? If that's some, is it even possible they'd be so good at hiding they even hid from SHIELD? Do you concoct some reason for their development like, I don't know, when the Chitari invaded some spore or whatever also came through the portal and effected the DNA of certain humans? How will it be done? I really don't know.

Then there's casting. Will casual non-comic readers even accept, say, a non-Hugh Jackman Wolverine? Heaven forbid he be a tiny hairy dude.
I'll address the last thing first. Wolverine needs to be a short stocky feral character. Jackman was great, but we don't need Jackman Wolverine 2.0 we need MCU Wolverine. I think the best case scenario would be to introduce Wolverine as part of Alpha Flight. I know that's not how things went in comics, but a real world sort of grounding in something like Weapon X or Department H would still be best for him.
**Personally, I'd like to see them pull out all the stops and show us a gathering of some of the other teams from around the world. We could get Alpha Flight, Excalibur, New Warriors, Shi'ar, Eternals, Starjammers, Fantastic Four, and the original X-men all in on something with SHIELD, the Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy. I know that's too much to expect, but a guy can dream.**

The MCU is surprisingly really grounded in real-world stuff still. Tony, Steve, Bruce, Natasha, Clint, etc. are still human and ruled by Earth physics and Earth laws for the most part. However... they have introduced Thor and the 9 realms, Aliens from space, Doctor Strange / Scarlett Witch and god-knows-what they can do, supersuits, Pym particles, and gamma monsters so having mutants that can do various things isn't going to be too much of a stretch. This issue might come down to the attempt to keep some measure of grounding in reality. Yes, characters like Scarlett Witch can technically fly, but Captain Marvel just defies gravity (or at least in the comics she does). I have to assume we will be expected to accept a variety of these sort of powers once the mutants show up.

I think I'd do the mutant thing gradually. Maybe the main team of Iceman, Cyclops, Jean, Beast and Angel have gotten together with Xavier and have been training and watching the Avengers but maybe not. I think Storm in Black Panther is a no brainer and I think we may see an Illuminati form before we see X-men. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Inhumans once they do Eternals and Mutants?
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
31,203
Reaction score
319
Location
Oregon
Actually, since Mutants were always feared anyways, the X-Men could still be in hiding. Thus not well know to the world, though I'm sure they were on Shield's radar at some level. They could have just been doing stealth missions prior to the Fox buyout.
Wolverine? I don't think the casting need to be 100% accurate to that ferrel look in he comics, otherwise just animate a Wolverine via CGI like Rocket. :wtf:
Kidding aside short and stocky is fine, but lets not get too carried away here. They're gonna be limited to who casts well.

Really that is something MCU has lacked until now, a Superman type character. Until Vision came along, no one could fly without assistance of equipment.
The Hulk was the strongest, and each character had a specific skill set. Captain Marvel will be the first one who has multiple powers/abilities. And I'm curious to see how strong they've made her in the MCU.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
3,180
Reaction score
190
Location
SC
Actually, since Mutants were always feared anyways, the X-Men could still be in hiding. Thus not well know to the world, though I'm sure they were on Shield's radar at some level. They could have just been doing stealth missions prior to the Fox buyout.
Wolverine? I don't think the casting need to be 100% accurate to that ferrel look in he comics, otherwise just animate a Wolverine via CGI like Rocket. :wtf:
Kidding aside short and stocky is fine, but lets not get too carried away here. They're gonna be limited to who casts well.

Really that is something MCU has lacked until now, a Superman type character. Until Vision came along, no one could fly without assistance of equipment.
The Hulk was the strongest, and each character had a specific skill set. Captain Marvel will be the first one who has multiple powers/abilities. And I'm curious to see how strong they've made her in the MCU.
I forgot about Vision flying around somehow.

I know you feel the MCU lacked a Superman type character, but I just never thought Superman was that compelling of a character. How do you threaten a basically indestructible being with "all" the powers. I feel like the Kryptonite "dust" the Batman uses in B v S was about as good as they could do to depower him enough for it to not be totally ridiculous for Bats and Sups to be fighting. How is Tony going to feel when he sees a character like Captain Marvel that can do everything he can do and without the suit?

Powers are a really difficult thing to write sometimes. I feel like Jedi powers are incredibly arbitrary. Anakin can jump like 50 yards and land on the head of a droid over a lava river, but can't jump 20 feet over Obi Wan to the higher ground?

It will be interesting to see how they write Jean Gray in this. The trailer just didn't give me a real feel for what to expect, it just jumped around and showed glimpses of everyone and a few smashed cars.
 

GNT

Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2000
Messages
70,428
Reaction score
102
Location
Australia
Saw this a couple days ago, the movie was alright and had many aspects I liked eg the space scene but overall there wasn't any wow factor or anything major about it. In fact I probably wouldn't even bother going to see it or watch it again. very much retread of whats come before.

It's sad that 19 years of x-men films ends on this note but hey a reboot by Marvel studios in the MCU is super exciting and something to look forward to.
 

GNT

Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2000
Messages
70,428
Reaction score
102
Location
Australia
Perhaps it's because everyone has seen the Phoenix part on screen before and knows this is the final film before it gets rebooted.
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
31,203
Reaction score
319
Location
Oregon
Agreed, that's why I didn't understand why they went there again. Especially so soon. The last Stand all over again, just with different/younger players. I kind of wanted to see it to round out that era, but it just isn't that interesting looking. And it's taking a beating by critics and viewers alike.

Perhaps it's best it goes back to Marvel, even though I think they have enough on their plate with so many other characters.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,286
Reaction score
95
Location
Philadelphia
Perhaps it's best it goes back to Marvel, even though I think they have enough on their plate with so many other characters.
But there's not just one "plate." It's not as if there's one group of writers, producers, and directors working on all of the movies at the same time. Each project has its own team.

Including the two Deadpool movies. Fox put out 12 X-Men films in 19 years. As of next month, Marvel will have put out 23 MCU films in 11 years. Some of which are among the most successful movies ever made.

I think Marvel can handle it.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,666
Reaction score
483
Location
Pennsylvania
Perhaps it's because everyone has seen the Phoenix part on screen before and knows this is the final film before it gets rebooted.
I think so too. End of the day, it's been done...and more casual movie goers don't know the comic version, so they associate Dark Phoenix with Last Stand...which was NOT beloved. Then toss in it's the last for the entire franchise, getting rebooted, was regularly pushed back (always a red flag), and the previous installment, Apocalypse, was also not beloved...

Just it's the perfect soup for a flop. I still thought it would do better than it did though.

I think the issue with MCU X-Men isn't so much that they can't handle it, it's more just when is the appropriate time. That being because X-Men is likely the most critically successful non-MCU film property Marvel has had. It's also (outside of Blade) the oldest if you exclude the 80's and 90's cornball cheap attempts. People did and do like a lot of these movies. Hugh Jackman became iconic as Wolverine and (correct me if wrong) but I believe he is the longest running actor to play one individual superhero on film. Nine times! I think only RDJ ties for Iron Man. Patrick Stewart as Xavier and Ian McKellen as Magneto also became fairly synonymous with the characters. And while it absolutely did produce some stinkers, it also was begun in a very different and more experimental and testing the water time when this sort of movie didn't come out four or five times a year. Some of them paved the way, really, for the MCU. Perhaps in a more simplistic and forward way, but that's how it was for a long time. I'll never subscribe to the cliche of "The only good Marvel films are MCU!" For my money, Days of Future Past, First Class, Logan, X2, and even (though dated) the original X-Men are anywhere from extremely fun to (in some cases) profound, beautiful, and incredible movies. Some I'd even say are better than some MCU installments.
 
Last edited:

Daigo_Bah

Moderator
Joined
Jul 14, 2000
Messages
8,308
Reaction score
160
Personally I loved it, and am sad it's getting bad reviews and box office take. But I understand the retread critiques; I just love spending time in the X-universe.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,286
Reaction score
95
Location
Philadelphia
I think the issue with MCU X-Men isn't so much that they can't handle it, it's more just when is the appropriate time. That being because X-Men is likely the most critically successful non-MCU film property Marvel has had. It's also (outside of Blade) the oldest if you exclude the 80's and 90's cornball cheap attempts. People did and do like a lot of these movies. Hugh Jackman became iconic as Wolverine and (correct me if wrong) but I believe he is the longest running actor to play one individual superhero on film. Nine times! I think only RDJ ties for Iron Man. Patrick Stewart as Xavier and Ian McKellen as Magneto also became fairly synonymous with the characters. And while it absolutely did produce some stinkers, it also was begun in a very different and more experimental and testing the water time when this sort of movie didn't come out four or five times a year. Some of them paved the way, really, for the MCU. Perhaps in a more simplistic and forward way, but that's how it was for a long time. I'll never subscribe to the cliche of "The only good Marvel films are MCU!" For my money, Days of Future Past, First Class, Logan, X2, and even (though dated) the original X-Men are anywhere from extremely fun to (in some cases) profound, beautiful, and incredible movies. Some I'd even say are better than some MCU installments.
Jackman will definitely be a tough act to follow. Stewart and McKellen as well, but since other actors have already been playing those characters, it will seem less jarring when they're recast. But I don't think Marvel is in any rush to bring the X-Men into the MCU, and that's smart. A little breathing room is a good thing. And that really has nothing to do Dark Phoenix's performance. Had it been a huge success, it would still be good idea to wait a few years.

And when the X-Men do appear in the MCU, I would like to see the original team first. Then introduce characters like Wolverine and Storm down the road and have them join the team in the sequel.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
0
Saw this last night. X-Men has been my favorite comic and the movies, while not terrible, have always felt lacking. At the end of Dark Phoenix my daughter turned to me and said "that wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be". I agreed, then my 12 yr old son asks "but didn't she have those powers in the last movie?" Then I was frustrated how they could mess up their own continuity. He was confused about the entire continuity and it didn't get better when I tried to explain it. Honestly I got more confused. While I didn't find any of these to be terrible and enjoyed watching some of my favorite characters come to life, I am looking forward to the MCU take on these. Logan/Jackman was the best thing to come of these movies and Reynolds getting to make his own Deadpool. Otherwise they are mostly forgettable.

Taken a a solo movie about the Dark Phoenix, it wasn't bad and there was some powerful performances. As a franchise cap, it really fell flat. I heard the villains were supposed to be Skrulls and Captain Marvel beat them to it so they modified it. Were those even a real alien race in the Marvel universe or something newly made up for this? Why not just use the Shi'ar?
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
31,203
Reaction score
319
Location
Oregon
And when the X-Men do appear in the MCU, I would like to see the original team first. Then introduce characters like Wolverine and Storm down the road and have them join the team in the sequel.
I kind of got the feeling that when the MCU eventually started using X-Men characters, that they would start with Wolverine. For obvious reasons. And that they wouldn't do an actual X-Men team , but rather them join other teams in the MCU.

Though even if they do actual X-Men films, I wonder if they would keep the shared universe feel. Or kind of have them off in their own. Having both Avengers and X-Men going would be a big challenge if there were still that connected tissue. And then how would those two teams interact, either directly or indirectly.

This was my worry when they acquired Fox. The MCU is a vast entity already, with trying to incorporate the many characters with relatively separate plots into a single story leading to Thanos.
Noe that Universe just got bigger with all the X-Men characters. If they keep everything connected like before, it could get very busy.

The one thing about X-Men coming into the fold late, could wind up leading to the Avengers vs. X-Men story line. Which personally I'm against. never care for the Hero vs. Hero stuff. Plus we just had Civil War. Otherwise how else do you explain Mutants sudden appearance, at least without some type of conflict. X-Men after all is about the hatred of something different.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,286
Reaction score
95
Location
Philadelphia
I kind of got the feeling that when the MCU eventually started using X-Men characters, that they would start with Wolverine. For obvious reasons. And that they wouldn't do an actual X-Men team , but rather them join other teams in the MCU.
I think there will definitely be a Wolverine solo movie, probably several. The first could come before or after the first X-Men movie. I would prefer after. But I can pretty much guarantee there will be X-Men team movies. Why wouldn't there be?

Though even if they do actual X-Men films, I wonder if they would keep the shared universe feel. Or kind of have them off in their own. Having both Avengers and X-Men going would be a big challenge if there were still that connected tissue. And then how would those two teams interact, either directly or indirectly.

This was my worry when they acquired Fox. The MCU is a vast entity already, with trying to incorporate the many characters with relatively separate plots into a single story leading to Thanos.
Noe that Universe just got bigger with all the X-Men characters. If they keep everything connected like before, it could get very busy.
Disney didn't buy Fox so they could keep the X-Men separate from the rest of the MCU. They're trying to expand their fictional universe, not create another one to exist alongside it. The X-Men might occupy their own corner of the MCU, similar to how the Guardians do, but Marvel/Disney isn't going to pass up the opportunity to have the X-Men interact with the rest of the characters in the MCU.

The one thing about X-Men coming into the fold late, could wind up leading to the Avengers vs. X-Men story line. Which personally I'm against. never care for the Hero vs. Hero stuff. Plus we just had Civil War. Otherwise how else do you explain Mutants sudden appearance, at least without some type of conflict. X-Men after all is about the hatred of something different.
We didn't "just" have Civil War. That was three years and ten movies ago. By the time the X-Men appear in the MCU, several more years will have passed since Civil War. So I don't see that as a problem. I'm not advocating an Avengers vs. X-Men story necessarily, but Civil War will not be a factor one way or the other at that point.

Bringing mutants into the MCU will be tricky. The question of "where have they been all along" will need to addressed.
 

Daigo_Bah

Moderator
Joined
Jul 14, 2000
Messages
8,308
Reaction score
160
I heard the villains were supposed to be Skrulls and Captain Marvel beat them to it so they modified it. Were those even a real alien race in the Marvel universe or something newly made up for this? Why not just use the Shi'ar?
Yes, the D'Bari were in the comics, and specifically during the Dark Phoenix storyline. But they were not shapeshifting aggressors like the Skrulls, they were a race (and planet) destroyed by specifically the Jean Grey Dark Phoenix (unlike in the film). The Shi'ar did become the aggressors after this incident though!
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
2,666
Reaction score
483
Location
Pennsylvania
See an issue with a long lasting team like Justice League, Avengers, or X-Men is...you almost can't go by how the comic book chronology went. I understood why Storm and Wolverine were put into the first X-Men film despite it not being comic accurate. The fact is that, at the end of the day, two factors come into play in choosing your film iteration of a team. 1. The original comic line-up might NOT be the most famous and popular. 2. Diversity is a huge deal in film today.

The Avengers only had three of the original members. No technically Cap does not count. He's the Bill Murry to SNL equivalent. He's always considered an original because he was very early on...but technically he's not. The Justice League added Batman and Superman immediately because of simple recognizably, they added Cyborg for diversity. If you didn't have Captain America on original Avengers line-up, Wolverine on the original X-Men line up, and Batman and Superman in the original JLA line up for these films, the masses would says "Where the heck ARE they?" While no, technically they weren't part of the beginnings, they all became utterly synonymous with these brands. So I mean...I get it. That type of alteration and adaptation never really bothered me.

So I don't think that they'd HAVE to start out with only Jean, Beast, Iceman, Angel, and Cyclops. More than half the planet seems to think Wolverine was created by Stan Lee and was an original member, mistaken as they are it just wouldn't fly well with audiences to not include him. Whether we dislike it or not. If you went chronologically, you could even argue that it would take multiple X-Men movies to even GET to Wolverine.

If you were going to do something more chronologically accurate, aim it more toward a niche audience like an animated series. I'd eat that up in a heart-beat. But I just don't think it works for masses.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,286
Reaction score
95
Location
Philadelphia
See an issue with a long lasting team like Justice League, Avengers, or X-Men is...you almost can't go by how the comic book chronology went. I understood why Storm and Wolverine were put into the first X-Men film despite it not being comic accurate. The fact is that, at the end of the day, two factors come into play in choosing your film iteration of a team. 1. The original comic line-up might NOT be the most famous and popular. 2. Diversity is a huge deal in film today.

The Avengers only had three of the original members. No technically Cap does not count. He's the Bill Murry to SNL equivalent. He's always considered an original because he was very early on...but technically he's not. The Justice League added Batman and Superman immediately because of simple recognizably, they added Cyborg for diversity. If you didn't have Captain America on original Avengers line-up, Wolverine on the original X-Men line up, and Batman and Superman in the original JLA line up for these films, the masses would says "Where the heck ARE they?" While no, technically they weren't part of the beginnings, they all became utterly synonymous with these brands. So I mean...I get it. That type of alteration and adaptation never really bothered me.

So I don't think that they'd HAVE to start out with only Jean, Beast, Iceman, Angel, and Cyclops. More than half the planet seems to think Wolverine was created by Stan Lee and was an original member, mistaken as they are it just wouldn't fly well with audiences to not include him. Whether we dislike it or not. If you went chronologically, you could even argue that it would take multiple X-Men movies to even GET to Wolverine.

If you were going to do something more chronologically accurate, aim it more toward a niche audience like an animated series. I'd eat that up in a heart-beat. But I just don't think it works for masses.
I think everyone understands that when a superhero team appears on screen for the first time it won't necessarily be the original team from the comics. And I think people generally get the various reasons why certain characters are removed and others are slotted in.

In 2000, OF COURSE Wolverine was going to be in the first X-Men movie ever made. That was a no-brainer. Back then. But now, I don't think it's quite as imperative that he show up right away. So no, they don't HAVE to start out with the original team. But what I would like to see is a movie that focuses on the originals, and maybe Havok and Polaris as new recruits. That would present an opportunity to set up and start to develop those characters a little bit without the temptation to focus on Wolverine. Establish the Summers brothers relationship, Scott and Jean, Xavier and Magneto, etc. Then, do a Wolverine solo movie (maybe where he fights the Hulk), and introduce Storm in a Black Panther sequel. Then incorporate Wolverine and Storm into an X-Men sequel. So it wouldn't need to take that many movies to get to Wolverine and Storm.
 
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
31,203
Reaction score
319
Location
Oregon
That's on thing I'd like definite confirmation on after the Fox buyout, their plans on the future of some of those rumored movies. Such as X-Force that was supposed to come after Deadpool 2, etc. I was kind of really looking forward to seeing a stand alone X-23, as I thought she did a pretty good job in the role. Would be nice if they continued some of the good stuff that was started.

I also would like to see Polaris and Havok, though in 90's X-Factor with Multiple Man and Strong Guy.

I definitely feel like seeing a few X-Men movies without Wolverine to start, he was essentially the focus in the first three movies. While i like the character well enough I feel he gets over used.

They also never really did Rogue justice. Now that Carol Danvers and her share the same universe, she has the chance to steal her powers. Finally.

The Shi'ar/StarJammers would definitely be cool to see on the big screen. Now that Marvel/Dis has the rights back, maybe they can start doing the characters justice. I was really disappointed with their take on Apocalypse, and glad they never got the chance to ruin Sinister.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
2,286
Reaction score
95
Location
Philadelphia
That's on thing I'd like definite confirmation on after the Fox buyout, their plans on the future of some of those rumored movies. Such as X-Force that was supposed to come after Deadpool 2, etc. I was kind of really looking forward to seeing a stand alone X-23, as I thought she did a pretty good job in the role. Would be nice if they continued some of the good stuff that was started.

I also would like to see Polaris and Havok, though in 90's X-Factor with Multiple Man and Strong Guy.

I definitely feel like seeing a few X-Men movies without Wolverine to start, he was essentially the focus in the first three movies. While i like the character well enough I feel he gets over used.

They also never really did Rogue justice. Now that Carol Danvers and her share the same universe, she has the chance to steal her powers. Finally.

The Shi'ar/StarJammers would definitely be cool to see on the big screen. Now that Marvel/Dis has the rights back, maybe they can start doing the characters justice. I was really disappointed with their take on Apocalypse, and glad they never got the chance to ruin Sinister.
You have to look at it from Marvel/Disney's perspective. They bought the Fox characters so they can do them their way, not so they can continue someone else's work. "Good stuff," aside from being totally subjective, is ultimately irrelevant. It's not really about the quality of the existing material. It's about Marvel having the freedom to do what they want without all the baggage of 12 other movies.

I think we can count on seeing the Starjammers and the Shi'ar at some point. They can cross over with the X-Men as well as the Guardians and the rest of the cosmic characters. They've never been done and they are brimming with possibilities.
 
Last edited:
Top