Covering damage on carded figures with stickers: Opinions needed

[Joe_O]

Well this follows on from another members observation on a 20back SW Vader MOC that was for sale here on the boards by one member as an ungraded piece with visible sticker damage which has now
been graded by AFA and is in the collection of another member. Low and behold the MOC now has a sticker covering the damage mentioned..

I guess I won't be alone in saying that for whatever reason that new sticker has been placed over the damage, it was wrong.

Actually I feel very strongly about this subject because I once bought a MOC on ebay that I had in my collection for over a year that had a couple of price stickers on it, one day I decided to remove them and under the stickers I revealed a huge tear of litho that completely ruined the look and the value of the card once it was visible, there was no residue or litho on either of the two stickers I removed
so it was quite obvious it was a damage cover up.

Now..this is where it gets tough and your opinions are needed, going back to the Vader- the member who now owns the figure has shown it off in the limelight section and until this came to light has not done any dodgy dealings
whatsoever as far as I or others who are aware of this situation are aware of. By all accounts he is a general "nice bloke"..so should he be outed? Contacted first and given a chance to explain?Another respected member here has even gone as far as to state that in his opinion the sticker is not even "vintage" as in it wasn't transferred and is in fact a reproduction. This stuff is worrying to say the least.

He may even chime in on this thread but I thought it best to get some opinions and replies before the pitch forks came out..

Oh and..I have compared and checked this story out since yesterday- it IS the same Vader - extra details/some kind of timeline: Ungraded Vader sold here in April, Vader then graded in July with the sticker covering the damage and finally limelighted here in September.

I am all for forgiving one slip up/bad move but before people are forgiven they have to admit what they did was wrong first so..here goes nothing- if you are reading and you know it's you I am referring to please let us know what has happened!

 

[rogerthat]

There are so many ways to look at this issue... Usually, I'd say roast him. Like you, I've been burned by the ol' sticker bait and dupe... It's one reason I will always, always, always be an advocate for sticker removal - I want to know what lies beneath. Unfortunately, there are certain price tags that are impossible to remove without hurting the card. (I typically try to avoid buying any figure with a KayBee or Venture sticker on it, as I know there's only damage to be done...)

Like I said, I'd usually say out him... However, this situation is slightly different - at least right now. So far, the only entity duped thus far is AFA... And part of me can't help but relish in that fact.

Don't get me wrong - I completely understand where you're coming from, but I sort of feel that given the current situation, this actually comes down to collecting preferences and practices. If a collector wants to use stickers to cover up damage, as much as I hate saying it... as much as I disagree with it... it's ultimately their's to do with as they please. There are other things people do to improve the appearance of their figures, certain methods that you might find ok, while another person still views it as tampering. (Comic Books get pressed; Some card collectors actually soak entire cards in water baths to wash them - both of these tactics are hotly debated within their respective circle and both are virtually undetectable).

I'm sort of inclined to liken this sort of thing to U grading... It's absurd to me... It annoys me, but obviously there are people who enjoy keeping their collection that way. To each their own... As long as this person isn't in a situation where they're taking advantage of someone, it seems like it is their business. That said, should the figure ever go up for sale - here or elsewhere - and it isn't disclosed, then I'd say we all have the obligation of making it known.

To me, the real issue here has to do with the AFA. I really do hope this will wake a few people up. I think this is less about the collector in question and more about them. If they're going to charge for their "expert opinion," then I think its reasonable to expect them to catch something as simple as a sticker cover up. How much evidence needs to come forward to show people their opinion is just as adequate as yours or mine? They obviously lack the education, science and technology to make any analysis that goes beyond our own capabilities. I've been saying it for years - AFA's self-appointed "authority" in this hobby is completely unwarranted, unqualified and ultimately dishonest. In the end, they're a 3rd party opinion - supposedly impartial - who's only real qualifications seem to be in making finely crafted acrylic cases.

 

[Joe_O]

I think there are two major issues really, the first is obviously that AFA got duped as you mentioned and that brings their authority claim into question but also the fact that this very possibly could be sold down the line to some unsuspecting buyer who will sit it on his shelf and never know about the repair job..ignorance is bliss? or is this actually something people would get upset over if they found out?

That's another unfortunate thing about something being slabbed and a collector taking the stamp of approval AFA Label over a good old fashioned once over in your hand to inspect the item you are buying, sure you may not have noticed the replacement sticker in hand either but once a piece is graded people probably don't even check at all.

Excuse the lack of pictures by the way guys- at this point if I put up a picture of the Vader in question it would be extremely obvious who owns this and as I am looking for opinions on it all and perhaps the owner/submitters input on what's happened I think it's best for now that I don't point too many fingers.

All I will say to add to the story at this point is that the person who bought it is still the owner, so this is not a question of someone else putting the sticker on the card and passing it on. It was in my eyes an attempt to make the card look better in order to grade it, perhaps not for resale YET but you can never say for sure how long something will stay in another persons collection.

Edit**- well I guess the third issue is- has a fake/reproduction sticker been used? Not that it really changes the situation in regard to the sticker not being original to the carded figure but in the grand scheme of things I guess a reproduction sticker is worse than a transplant?..

 

[ChrisB]

My main question regarding the possible/eventual resale of this item, is what if it happens behind closed doors in PM only? And it never gets listed openly and freely in the classifieds? Then no one is the wiser until the new owner lime's it and someone that knows about it speaks up. That to me, would be more dangerous than if it was listed in the classifieds.

Either way, it's a very sticky situation. I just hope the owner chimes into this thread eventually.

 

[HughJorgan]

I would contact first and give the party in question achance to explain. If no response...out him. I too have been burned in the pas twith stickers covering up damage. Don't let my post count fool you, I've been into this stuff for about 10 years now (off and on) and have ZERO patience for this kind of crap. Again, it sounds like "only" AFA got "tricked" but what if, as ChrisB stated...this is sold at later date off the boards and out of sight. Some poor sap is going to get burned. My 2¢

 

[JosephY]

I've seen the pics,2 major tell tale signs exist to confirm that it's the same figure before and after, and the replacement sticker, looks generic and un-aged, in my opinion. BUT to be fair, had I not seen the before pic, I likely wouldn't have placed the price sticker under as much scrutiny if shown a pic and asked what's wrong with this piece. In hand I believe that I would have noticed that it didn't look right, but it was obviously nice enough to get past AFA's "expert" graders.IF it's a transplant or worse a repro, it's still wrong, personally it doesn't look old to me. Once pics are posted,judge for yourself. Unlike a company that touts itself as an "authority", I admit that I can be wrong when looking for defects. As Joe_O said, the person in question is someone that most in the community have(myself included) had good dealings and conversation with in the past and has not one stitch of sketchyness associated with him, which makes it even harder to know how to approach this. Hopefully he will come forward on his own and we can see what's up.

Cheers
Joe

 

[SF1138]

It is a tough matter. A sticker by definition is not factory so I'm surprised that AFA grades with them on, but not. So many vintage stickers cannot be removed safely, and I'll try for a bit but if it looks like it will make things worse I stop. I've gotten into the habit of not even mucking with them if the figure is nice. If someone wants a figure with a perfect card and it has a sticker, there is probably a reason a sticker is still there. Either it couldn't be removed safely or it might be covering a boo boo. I wish I could have cards without stickers and that has cost me happiness and regret in trying to remove. Personally I wonder if stickers I have had been mucked with, but would rather not know to some degree. Some minimum wage clerk put the sticker on and mucked it up from the start if it is there. My trying to remove it, if unsuccessful makes me pissed that I should have left well enough alone. I understand the want to return things to the state found, so I have a hard time being upset if someone restuck a sticker. If someone blatantly stickes a phoney sticker I'm not down with that. A reprint is a fake by definition.

To sum up, it is far safer to buy the figure in the condition you want it. If you want no sticker, then buy no sticker figures. No chance of getting a fake. Once it's there, it's there and if AFA considers it an acceptable aftermarket item to begin with my opinion has shifted to keep the darn thing as it is. I have removed stickers (or started to) and once done, you can't go back. If it turns out nice, great, but otherwise great sadness.

 

[AlexSWE]

Give the person a chance to show the item and explain how he/she was thinking.
If there´s no response out it, i don´t want to be the next owner..

In .m.h.o it´s no question about if it´s wrong or right hiding damage to a piece.

What will happen to the AFA-grade it got?. . .

 

[_Lee_]

What a tool.AFA already put a sticker in the case,he doesnt have to add hi $99 cents worth

nah,seriously this is nasty.Im pretty sure all the AFA guys would even turn their nose up at this.

 

[Hayd]

The motive to coverup a damaged card is obvious, weather its sent to afa or resold.... i think outing this piece is important because these tend to turn up on the bay shortly after being "discovered" (cought)

 

[Joe_O]

This is an unfortunate situation for many reasons but this needs to be addressed. I will however continue to refrain from posting names or pictures until I talk this over with the current owner of the MOC in question- who has I may add made contact with me tonight.

If anything good will come of this it will be increased awareness and as Roger stated it shows that AFA can be fooled and that even with an AFA seal of approval things should never be taken as 100% original and not tampered with - A lesson for collectors to be more aware and not to get lazy and just accept what it says on the grade label. It will also hopefully make AFA aware of the issue and to inspect things more closely and to give special attention to any kind of stickers on items, this time it was a price sticker, next time it might be a coin offer sticker on a SW moc for example.

 

[Hayd]

If anything good will come of this .

The only thing to clear a persons name in this matter would be proof that the case has been cracked open and the sticker removed, it IS a diliberately forged item and to excuse the action with "this prove afa can be fooled"... well, we have all known that for years but it dosent mean we all striving to fool them.

I understand your situation joe_O, probably he´s a pal of yours and you dont want to ruin his rep but IMO this goes beyond that.... convince him to undo the "incorrectness" and this may blow over without too much damage.

 

[jedikt]

I have to admit that my first thought was "As long as it's going to stay in his collection and not going to be sold, I don't see the problem." But then I read the post regarding the possible sale of the fig via PM and the community not being properly warned...now I'm convinced that at a minimum the item in question needs to be outed. Someone in-the-know needs to post a pic of the vader in question to give us some reference. I'd like to know what it looks like so I'll know it if I see it again.

 

[Joshua_A]

The question you have to ask yourself is...Is this the first time they have done this? It's like believeing Wolf never re-painted a figure before the one he was caught out on.
People are always full of remorse once they are caught out. It is the people who come clean without being pushed who are truly remorseful IMO.

Hope it was worth your reputation.

 

[oceans11]

I understand giving this "respected" member of our community the chance to explain. What I don't understand is the desire to keep this behind closed doors. That's the type of problem that came up in the McWilliams debacle. Everything was discussed behind closed doors by on few select members. The proof is there that the sticker was added to cover damage. Sorry if I'm taking a hard line on this, but the member should be outed. I don't care how "respected" he is. We constantly raked Decade Toys/Shaun over the coals in the past for similar actions. Why does this one select member get special treatment? Billyboy got special treatment as he was respected and look how that turned out. Sorry, but I'm kind of tired of people being given a "pass" when they do something wrong because of who they're associated with. Call him out and let him explain to the group. Worst case scenario... he fesses up to bad judgement and admits he messed up.

Don
feeling a bit like Peter Finch in Network

 

[AlexSWE]

A little bit OT in this, but.

This time it was a price sticker, next time it might be a coin offer sticker on a SW moc for example.

This is something i have thought about seeing rare/strange sticker combinations.
And my feeling is that those have increased, thinking of "clipper stars" double offers etc...

Who can determine if all these are legit or false?

 

[JosephY]

A little bit OT in this, but.



This is something i have thought about seeing rare/strange sticker combinations.
And my feeling is that those have increased, thinking of "clipper stars" double offers etc...

Who can determine if all these are legit or false?

I know that Neihiest had a bunch of Clipper double offers on Ebay, just because they were being sold by him, I'd avoid them and consider them fake. I believe that he also had some of them graded, and they got thru the afa system as well. I'll try to see if he still has any on ebay.

Cheers
Joe

 

[jawascrump]

Cough! I have actually purchased one of them off him...I didn’t know who the seller was, then I did a search and found a lot of threads on him.
What I have bought does look identical to the one on the SWCA. It is a known anomaly too. Should be here any day soon, hoping I will be able to spot it in hand if it is a fugazi.

As for the OP I want to know who this guy is as I am buying lots of mocs on here and don’t want to get stung! I understand the owner has priority with regards to finding out but I want to know. Just to be sure!

 

[Joe_O]

I understand giving this "respected" member of our community the chance to explain. What I don't understand is the desire to keep this behind closed doors. That's the type of problem that came up in the McWilliams debacle. Everything was discussed behind closed doors by on few select members. The proof is there that the sticker was added to cover damage. Sorry if I'm taking a hard line on this, but the member should be outed. I don't care how "respected" he is. We constantly raked Decade Toys/Shaun over the coals in the past for similar actions. Why does this one select member get special treatment? Billyboy got special treatment as he was respected and look how that turned out. Sorry, but I'm kind of tired of people being given a "pass" when they do something wrong because of who they're associated with. Call him out and let him explain to the group. Worst case scenario... he fesses up to bad judgement and admits he messed up.

Don

I definitely understand where you are coming from Don, I figured a 1-2 day window for him to come clean on his own was probably a better idea than to just jump in with the name calling/finger pointing, I definitely won't be withholding the pictures, AFA serial number or the name of this member forever so rest assured if he doesn't chime in himself then I will post the extra information up.

As I said he has been in contact with me, he hasn't denied anything, he's given me his reasons and I have basically given my opinion and asked him where to go from here, meaning that he should really face the music as this is not just an issue of "the sticker that got by AFA" this is potentially much bigger- as has been discussed, offer stickers being replaced, stickers covering even worse damage or ink on the card etc etc, once one sticker gets by AFA..you get the picture.

The only thing to clear a persons name in this matter would be proof that the case has been cracked open and the sticker removed, it IS a diliberately forged item and to excuse the action with "this prove afa can be fooled"... well, we have all known that for years but it dosent mean we all striving to fool them.

I understand your situation joe_O, probably he´s a pal of yours and you dont want to ruin his rep but IMO this goes beyond that.... convince him to undo the "incorrectness" and this may blow over without too much damage.

Hi Hayd,

I do agree that the only way that the rest of the members here would be happy with the outcome is to see that Vader busted out and sticker removed, I don't know if that's something the owner would entertain but certainly it's the only way to be sure it wouldn't be sold on with no mention of the sticker covering a litho tear.

Also just to add- the person in question isn't a friend of mine, never spoken or dealt with them just know them from the boards and I felt it was important to get some opinions and hope that they would out themselves so to speak. The opportunity is there and fortunately I think people would welcome an explanation from the horses mouth rather than silence so that is one pro to coming clean.

 

[JosephY]

The person that is the original subject of this thread isn't selling anything at the moment(or I believe that even the member that gave Joe_O and myself the links to the item in question would have outed him), and because he's someone that's well enough liked around here that he has a chance to explain himself before being drug thru the mud, he's getting that chance. So far the only entity that's been "scammed" by his actions, would be AFA. So him having any intent to harm the community is debatable, and I'm sure there'll be pages of debate once he does chime in and explain.

Cheers
Joe

 

[Joe_O]

I figured at this point with most people wanting to see this for themselves and with all the requests I keep getting to out the person and see the pictures I should at least show the picture to show it took place.

I would like to add that while the damage may look minimal from the picture of the ungraded Vader there was a litho tear there, which was of course covered with the sticker before being graded- as you can see it's the same Vader before and after.

IMO regardless of the extent of the damage on this particular piece before it was repaired it shows that it is clearly possible to transplant a sticker over whatever you don't like on a carded figure then get it graded pretty easily by AFA.

I am unsure at this moment in time if the owner is going to come here to publicly discuss things, he is aware of the thread and no doubt realises that sooner or later people will put 2+2 together (in fact a few people already have guessed who it was from the information available in this thread and the post made in another thread) and will come looking for answers from him privately or publicly..

I guess it's up to him now if he wants to discuss this issue with the rest of the board, I know if it was me and I was 100% sure this was an isolated incident I would be here explaining my actions.

I don't want to be coming off too confrontational with this thread but like Don and Ed mentioned earlier - people want to know who has done the old sticker trick, there are reasons why we need to have this stuff out in the open and to be honest if this was someone on ebay his name would have been on the first post for all to see so I will leave it there for now and if he doesn't want to out himself that doesn't leave people like myself or Joseph Y with much choice but to go ahead and do it for him.

 

[jawascrump]

Nice one Joe. Personally I don't want to know who it is for the purpose of entertainment. I have done a few deals behind closed doors in last few months and although the guy may not be openly advertising, it doesnt mean he is not selling!
I often get pms from people who arent selling, but they reply to WTB threads.

The thought that this is a well known and respected collector is even worse as it completely compromises RS integrity. I have always trusted the "big names"- if they say its legit I take his/her word for it. It really shakes the confidence when this happens. If "Mr Sticker" has viewed the thread it means he has had his chance (Which I am not 100% sure he deserves) to defend himself. Radio silence to me is an admission of guilt. I really hope this person is named ASAP. The longer it goes on the more damage it does to the "big names" and to the integrity of the RS site in general.

 

[Krusty007]

What seem two points of wear under the W of Wars and the racetrack outer border are in fact TM (trademark).

That being said, there is no doubt it is the same Vader. The bubble uneven cut and the way the cape is folded prooves this. These details are more obvious when we look at the RS members' galleries. The litho tear is also more visible in the galleries.

That's really sad. :grumpy:

 

[tigerham]

I think the person should be outed because they KNOWINGLY sent a covered-up piece for grading to AFA therefore hoping it would slide under their noses so in my books that's low no matter who they are. There's definately also the matter of re-sale, maybe not now but eventually and now it's been graded it WILL be bought... unless of course they are outed OR they come clean and can somehow show the forums that it's going to stay in their collection and if it ever goes up for sale to break it out the AFA case and take the sticker off!!

It's trash stunts like this that put the SW collecting to shame and in fear of what people will receive. NOT GOOD!!!

 

[Joshua_A]

The biggest issue here is what has been sold in the past by the member. Anyone who has bought something from them now has to check their items.
It may infact just be a one off..And that excuse is good enough for most by the sounds of it anyway...But a shadow of doubt has been cast now so it's only fair people are made aware of who the person is. I know I personally have nothing to worry about but there maybe someone out there in for a big surprise. Let's hope not.




About price stickers. IMO something with a price sticker should not be able to grade that high anyway. Those sort of grades should be reserved for cards without price stickers. The fact AFA grade an item with a price sticker as an equal to one without...aslong as it is neatly applied (I believe this to be the case anyway) is ludicrous. Clearly they cannot be the same quality. One has a F%^&ing price sticker on it! That alone should make it an immediate 75 or 80. This whole issue would probably not matter then as that is what a card with a small sticker tear would grade also. So covering one up would be an aesthetic choice of the owner. This would still have to be disclosed one would think if sold on but at least it would stop pieces like this being passed off as near mint at the AFA, when they are sent into be graded.

*I am not a AFA grader but that is my understanding on how they deal with stickers from what I have read in the past. Correct me if I am wrong please.

**Having said all that also the Vader in question did only grade 80 for other factors not associated with the sticker cover up. One would think it would of probably got 75 with the sticker damage visible. So it's not like they turned an AFA75 into an AFA90.
They also haven't tried to sell it as far as I am aware.
And until someone says otherwise, if that's what they want to do with their own items then it's nothing to do with me. If they've been pulling a Onetofiveauctions, well obviously that's different.



To tell the truth though, honestly, this whole thing has got me asking how common this is with the AFA MOC crowd.

 

[rogerthat]

The biggest issue here is what has been sold in the past by the member. Anyone who has bought something from them now has to check their items.

...Yup

About price stickers. IMO something with a price sticker should not be able to grade that high anyway. Those sort of grades should be reserved for cards without price stickers. The fact AFA grade an item with a price sticker as an equal to one without...aslong as it is neatly applied (I believe this to be the case anyway) is ludicrous. Clearly they cannot be the same quality. One has a F%^&ing price sticker on it! That alone should make it an immediate 75 or 80. This whole issue would probably not matter then as that is what a card with a small sticker tear would grade also. So covering one up would be an aesthetic choice of the owner. This would still have to be disclosed one would think if sold on but at least it would stop pieces like this being passed off as near mint at the AFA, when they are sent into be graded.

I completely agree with everything you're saying here, Josh... I personally think a price tag should automatically put any figure at an 80 based on the simple fact that an 80 is said to represent a figure with normal shelf wear. A price tag is clear indication that it was indeed shelved. Ironically, the cover-up here really doesn't seem to have effected the grade in this case. I've seen countless graded pieces with litho chipping caused by tag removal - so long as the card exhibits little damage beyond that, it gets an 80. I'd really like to think the person in question is aware of this given his propensity for grading... (perhaps I'm stretching here, but this would sort of vindicate this as more of a preferential tampering than an attempt to raise his stake in the piece... Granted, I wholeheartedly disagree with the latter sentiment, but I can accept it... From a certain point of view).

To tell the truth though, honestly, this whole thing has got me asking how common this is with the AFA MOC crowd.

Likewise...

The thing that concerns me most here is that the situation smacks of a faith driven sense of morality in relation to AFA and the people who use them... It isn't about what we think is right, its whatever AFA tells them is right.

I said it at the beginning of this thread and I'll say it again, this isn't so much about the person in question as it is about AFA... Like it or not, as individual collectors we have no actual obligation to adhere to any code of ethics - (ethics being even more subjective than grading). It's that very fact which thus created the need for a grading authority such as AFA in the first place. Furthermore, they owe it not to the person submitting the items for grading, but rather to any future party who might purchase a graded item to make good on their mission:

AFA has worked diligently for years to develop the standard we use to accurately convey the condition of original and un-tampered with collectibles, thereby creating a safer collecting environment and helping to ensure that your investment is protected for years to come. When you can be certain that an item was carefully examined by well-trained, unbiased professionals, you can relax and better enjoy your collecting experience.

 

[oceans11]

Still waiting on this. I think it would be good to hear the explanation.

Also, I wonder why AFA being "experts" didn't catch the sticker placement. Shouldn't they be able to detect these things. Especially if they're authenticating the items. If they're not authenticating and just grading, that really kills the whole argument of buying AFA for authenticity and peace of mind. Doesn't it?

Don
who finds the pic evidence pretty damning.

 

[Kyle_B]

Still waiting on this. I think it would be good to hear the explanation.

Also, I wonder why AFA being "experts" didn't catch the sticker placement. Shouldn't they be able to detect these things. Especially if they're authenticating the items. If they're not authenticating and just grading, that really kills the whole argument of buying AFA for authenticity and peace of mind. Doesn't it?

Don
who finds the pic evidence pretty damning.

What do you mean by "catch the sticker placement"? I have a few carded figures bought from original owners with original price tags in random places.

 

[Krusty007]

I think he means the fake sticker placement.

 

[AlexSWE]

I wonder why AFA being "experts" didn't catch the sticker placement. Shouldn't they be able to detect these things. Especially if they're authenticating the items. If they're not authenticating and just grading, that really kills the whole argument...

In my mind i can´t se how anyone can determined if there is something hidden under a price tag or a sticker?
Let´s say you use a original price tag from another vintage MOC or an offer sticker...
May be AFA should mark all such stuff with a uncertainty-letter if beeing accurate, like they do if something is yellowing for example.
At least now days when many place so great emphasis and hundreds or thousands of $$$ on an exact grading.

 

[Joe_O]

While we are discussing AFA, I thought about this issue and how it proves that the level of scrutiny used on toys being sent in often differs from piece to piece..

An example of this that involves a sticker is the following:

A little while ago Allen (knothead) bought an ungraded ESB Fett with a ROTJ Coin offer sticker on it, now, there are plenty of ESB characters that legitimately got stickered up with the coin offer because they just sat on the shelf all that time or were overstock put out during the coin offer period and Allen's Fett looked pretty good from what I can remember yet it was refused as AFA didn't think the sticker was original. So they obviously took a good look at that particular sticker..so why didn't they spot this one? My guess is- this one just looked "normal" and didn't raise alarm bells because it looked like any old SW Vader with a price tag and an ESB Fett with a coin offer would have been a huge piece to make a mistake on.

It makes you wonder if price stickers are even checked at all as long as they appear not to be lifting.

Threads like this one have shown time and time again that they just don't check the majority of items coming in as well as they should do (for the amount of money they charge) or in fact equally, unless its worth a shed load of money and you paid for a higher grading tier..then it seems to get a higher level of "grading". I personally always had an issue with the fact that the more money your item is worth the more they charge you to grade it..it never sat well with me. If it was the same amount of work to inspect and assign a grade to this Vader as it was to a ROTJ Klaatu with a yellow bubble why not charge the same amount? (Items needing real authentication aside I think even AFA fans would agree that a standard charge for the majority of items they grade would be a welcome change to the entire grading system)

As a consumer buying into AFA I would want to know that every single figure that doesn't require any extra authentication (which let's face it outside of perhaps pre production, some expensive variations and some bootlegs is probably the majority of their daily intake of toys) that is sent in for grading is inspected as thoroughly as any other, regardless of it's value. They have been going long enough to know their Palitoy from their PBP or their cloth cape from their Vinyl cape..IMO at least.


Anyways, everyone can make their own mind up with regard to AFA, just my take on it, I know whenever AFA make a "mistake" people say it's 1 in a 100,000 and these things are bound to slip by and it all gets overlooked..but really..if this thread didn't exist we wouldn't know of this particular "mistake", just as we probably don't know about other similar "mistakes"..which when you are paying an authority good money to get things right you don't want to be reading about "mistakes".



With regard to this actual Vader..I was told by the owner that he would post here to explain his actions and I presumed that would be before he went away on holiday this weekend as he informed me he was away. I guess that isn't going to be the case given that it is now Saturday..

The owner and person who transplanted the sticker is Cal - RS member: Calevans83. I still believe he will post here at some point to explain himself as the discussion I have had with him has been quite civil however given that we exchanged emails and private messages several times since this broke I feel that he had sufficient time to have come here himself and explain which he hasn't.

I won't speak on his behalf at all nor will I field questions or explain anything, sure I know his reasons but it's up to him to convey them to others. Besides I feel that now, given his name is out there people can seek the answers from him themselves.

All the best guys and keep your eye open when dealing with AFA items, a case and a sticker does not mean everything.

 

[Krusty007]

The owner and person who transplanted the sticker is Cal - RS member: Calevans83. I still believe he will post here at some point to explain himself as the discussion I have had with him has been quite civil however given that we exchanged emails and private messages several times since this broke I feel that he had sufficient time to have come here himself and explain which he hasn't.

I won't speak on his behalf at all nor will I field questions or explain anything, sure I know his reasons but it's up to him to convey them to others. Besides I feel that now, given his name is out there people can seek the answers from him themselves.

All the best guys and keep your eye open when dealing with AFA items, a case and a sticker does not mean everything.

The Vader with the fake price sticker can be seen here: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1072269/

 

[NEWHOPE]

Wow. Busted!

 

[JosephY]

As someone that's owned a SW Power Droid with POTF sticker, I can say that it's not an impossible variation. PLEASE save the tarring and feathering for after Cal's had a chance to explain himself. He's someone that many here have had good dealings with, and at the very least he deserves to be able to explain himself before he gets branded as a scammer or worse. Wolff did far worse and has been for the most part forgiven by the community. Lets see what the man has to say for himself.

Cheers
Joe

 

[jawascrump]

Hmmm. This is a policy I don't really understand on rs. On most other forums once a scammer or dishonest member has been uncovered they are usually banned. Regardless of there history on the forum. If anything the fact he has a good rep makes the whole business even messier.
The guy has had four days to come and defend himself. Is there really a defence for his actions?

 

[Krusty007]

As someone that's owned a SW Power Droid with POTF sticker, I can say that it's not an impossible variation.

You may be right for the Power Droid Joe. However, in this case the Vader seems the biggest problem as the fake sticker was added to cover the litho dammage. I would not appreciate being the fool that would purchase such a graded MOC.

Here is the Vader without the sticker: http://forum.rebelscum.com/photogall...-40223/cat/500

That one was also on eBay (without the sticker) in April. How I know it? I almost bought it but did not because of the uneven bubble cut and litho loss.

 

[IoN_Cannon]

I heard that AFA looks at stickers under microscopes and black light to look for tampering. If it got past those two methods then I have to believe it appeared to be the real deal. Not defending AFA but no one is perfect. I personally think stickers sometimes add to the nostalgia. At least for me. I think removing stickers is sort of tampering itself in a way. Now obviously this incident is cause for concern and I really hope it doesn't happen often. Makes you wonder what other people will try to get away with and what percentage gets refused. I'm generally afraid of pulling stickers off my carded figures, I've ruined too many to keep doing it. Even the easy ones scare me these days. These items aren't getting in younger LOL. A majority of my collection is AFA-80 and I'm totally happy with an 80/clear bubble/stickered MOC. If a sticker dropped it to an 80, then so be it. The strive for perfection is a sure sign of insanity.

 

[chewbvader]

It's the unwritten rule. If you have been a member long enough you are allowed to pull a fast one once or maybe twice

 

[Joshua_A]

At the very least people can now check through any items they may have bought from Calevan83.
Let's hope there are no more surprises for anyone.

 

[knothead615]

While we are discussing AFA, I thought about this issue and how it proves that the level of scrutiny used on toys being sent in often differs from piece to piece..

An example of this that involves a sticker is the following:

A little while ago Allen (knothead) bought an ungraded ESB Fett with a ROTJ Coin offer sticker on it, now, there are plenty of ESB characters that legitimately got stickered up with the coin offer because they just sat on the shelf all that time or were overstock put out during the coin offer period and Allen's Fett looked pretty good from what I can remember yet it was refused as AFA didn't think the sticker was original. So they obviously took a good look at that particular sticker..so why didn't they spot this one? My guess is- this one just looked "normal" and didn't raise alarm bells because it looked like any old SW Vader with a price tag and an ESB Fett with a coin offer would have been a huge piece to make a mistake on.

It makes you wonder if price stickers are even checked at all as long as they appear not to be lifting.

joe, i was thinking of my fett when this came up as well. it is possible i guess that the coin offer is covering some damage. if it is, then it was an used sticker placed on there and not a transplant. how do i know? some of you could probably agree with this but if you remove a coin offer from a card the paint, especially of the border cracks and wrinkles. i actually removed a sticker to test my theory, although it seems like common sense that it would crack or show some type of wear from removal. there is no cracking in the print, border, or wrinkles of my piece, so if it was faked it would have to be an unused sticker which do exist, so it is possible the person i bought it from had a sticker and used it for this. i actually bought it from a seller that i am sure most of you have at least seen listings for or possibly have bought from before.

as far as the price tags, i do know afa does check them. i do not know what criteria they use or how often but of the pieces i submit, they check more stickers than not. most of my mocs come back with a lift in the price tag unless it appears they are going to damage the card by trying to give it a little peel. i have had many pieces rejected because they feel the tag is covering a flaw. so i know they do check more often than not, at least in my experience. certain tags do come off easier than others so i will try to peel them off before i send them if i think i can. i know how afa is looked upon here so i am not trying to defend them but rather just share my sticker experiences i have had with them.