Can we just call repros what they really are?

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Starting this discussion about the legality of repros and why are the called that anyways. First, they should be called forgeries or if you want to be kind, bootlegs. I've seen the arguments about the molds are public domain, how Hasbro doesn't make these figures, how if this was really wrong the copyright holding company would shut it down, etc. I'm going to say why none of those reasons are valid. Feel free to dispute/discuss but please don't be rude.
1. The molds are public domain - from what I could see on Google, this does appear to be accurate. But only the molds. If they were produced and painted differently and did not use specific, copyrighted characters names then this would be perfectly fine. This is not the case however.
2. Hasbro doesn't make these figures anyways - weakest argument there is. Because the actual license holder doesn't make the figure you want, it's perfectly fine to buy a forgery of one? That's just ludicrous.
3. If it was a big deal the copyright owner would shut it down - ask yourself this, if it wasn't a big deal why do these fraud companies advertise with the movie and character names blocked out, why do they only sell on the Etsy and Ebays of the internet? Why can't you buy them at stores? The answer is simple. They are too small for the copyright holders to waste the legal fees on at this moment. You know and I know and the makers of these forgeries know that the second they put up a legitimate online storefront or try to sell to distributors they will get shutdown. And fast.

Now, please understand this, I DO NOT CARE if you buy these. Your money, do what you want. If you want to go buy five pounds of coke and snort your brains out that's your choice. I'm just tired of people trying to make excuses of why it's ok to buy forgeries. It's not. Doesn't mean you can't. Doesn't mean I care if you do. Buy what you enjoy. But be honest (at least with yourself) about what you are buying.
 
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Nice answer but I dont recall anyone asking you a question.

My point to all of the back and forth is just keep positive. If you dont like reproductions, dont buy them and keep your opinion to yourself. There is no point, other than being a tool, talking like your some kind of lawyer or voice of all that is "right".

If someone wants to buy reproductions, that's ok.

If Hasbro wants to shut the people down who are making reproductions, let them do it.

If you dont like them, that's OK.

Your pissing in the wind trying to look like a hero talking about a subject that has polarized opinions. Your banter is not productive and will only invite conflict.

Live and let live.
 
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This is about the 3.75 scale, right?
Well... I've seen people customize existing figures and selling them. Nobody seem to be offended by that. Not that I've noticed anyway.
Is there a difference between a custom figure and a "homemade" one?
Just being curious.
 
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This is about the 3.75 scale, right?
Well... I've seen people customize existing figures and selling them. Nobody seem to be offended by that. Not that I've noticed anyway.
Is there a difference between a custom figure and a "homemade" one?
Just being curious.
Correct, 3.75. I think customizing for your own collection is perfectly alright. No problems there. Customizing and then selling would not be but it's a little more murky. If you buy a figure off the shelf and then sell it to someone else, there is nothing wrong with that. Licenses have been paid and there is no law against reselling. If you buy a figure off the shelf and then retool, repaint, etc and then sell it as something else I would think that would be illegal. But that's a good point.
 
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This is spill over from a discussion about the Stan Solo recreations. Here are 3 of his figures. They are beautiful and they are not meant to be a forgery or to fool anyone.

The argument against reproductions is purely selfish. The ones who have high end originals are just worried about the value dropping. Originals are originals, end of story. If I could afford them it would be my preference but I can't.
 

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Bringing from the other thread;

The topic (not the insults) does fascinate me, ....

If any of the license holders had an issue with it they would be shut down. Funny thing is, these sculpts are public domain. Kenner let them fall into public domain years ago. Just like Mego
Honestly, what are you personally losing out on?
if there were a legal issue you know darn well they would already be shut down.
The legality of these claims do fascinate me, especially since there are some arguing (or trying to justify) why it's "legally" ok, Not why one rationalizes it's ok, I'm curious about the actual legality? The truth/or not of these claims is what interest me?

As well as the claims the vintage Star Wars sculpts have lapsed into public domain?
The Mego example seems like a lie or someone trying to blur the lines, , since as indicated perhaps their now considered 'generic" body design and construction has lapsed, but the characters they once licenced; costumes , molds and likeness of those characters certainly are not public domain. And are defended.
As are Star Wars characters and likeness.
A better example would be the now generic 3.3/4 5POA figure construction is public domain, no one has (likley ever) had a copyright on that.
But the licensed characters you put on that "figure frame", I imagine are certainly defended?

Also just cause someone hasn't come after them yet, doesn't mean it's legal or OK does it?

And should there be a distinction between one-off customs, and someone starting to produce them on-mass?
 
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Bringing from the other thread;

The topic (not the insults) does fascinate me, ....



The legality of these claims do fascinate me, especially since there are some arguing (or trying to justify) why it's "legally" ok, Not why one rationalizes it's ok, I'm curious about the actual legality? The truth/or not of these claims is what interest me?

As well as the claims the vintage Star Wars sculpts have lapsed into public domain?
The Mego example seems like a lie or someone trying to blur the lines, , since as indicated perhaps their now considered 'generic" body design and construction has lapsed, but the characters they once licenced; costumes , molds and likeness of those characters certainly are not public domain. And are defended.
As are Star Wars characters and likeness.
A better example would be the now generic 3.3/4 5POA figure construction is public domain, no one has (likley ever) had a copyright on that.
But the licensed characters, I imagine are certainly defended?
That's been my main point all along. It's the same principal as a musician stealing a riff from another artist and making their own song out of it. While you can't copyright the chords used to write the music (or the molds in the case of figures) the song you create is most definitely yours and cannot be used for an other artist's song without your permission.
 
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Correct, 3.75. I think customizing for your own collection is perfectly alright. No problems there. Customizing and then selling would not be but it's a little more murky. If you buy a figure off the shelf and then sell it to someone else, there is nothing wrong with that. Licenses have been paid and there is no law against reselling. If you buy a figure off the shelf and then retool, repaint, etc and then sell it as something else I would think that would be illegal. But that's a good point.


I have no horse in this 3.75 race, although I did have a lot of them, back in the 80s, but those were for playing.
There are a lot of skilled customizers out there, at least in the 6 inch game and there are some that repaint faces, or add things to make the figures more correct etc and sell them, mostly on commissions I think, but I have seen several either make extras for figures, make new add-ons for existing figures so they can become this and that version, etc. and I have nothing against that.
If I did collect 3.75 I don't think I would mind if someone makes reproductions of old originals, as long as they are not being sold fraudulently as originals.
 
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That's the rub though isn't it? To sell them period is fraudulent so it wouldn't really matter if they claim they are originals or not. Sorry, at least in my opinion. I do agree though that some of the custom work being done looks pretty darn good.
 
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Obviously there is a loophole of sorts, if these persist and are still being sold. Remember who the owner of Star Wars is, they are not afraid to close shop of someone, if that someone is using their property for monetary gain.
Or buy them up to make them an official licensee and then smother them slowly with fees.
 
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I agree completely. I believe it's because they are considered too small to waste the effort on but it is perplexing. If it were me I would shut it down immediately. Maybe it's for PR purposes? As long as these people aren't making millions and blatantly advertising Disney/LucasFilm/Hasbro turn the other way. They have taken a beating from the irate minority since Force Awakens. They may not want to rile them up right now.
 
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I'm not sure how close those Solos are , never owned one, but my concern would be they are close enough that people could swap out arms, legs, head etc, to a real figure w/ missing parts, to make it seem authentic. Though maybe those solos don't attach the same way too.
 
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Pre 2010 I remember a few castors, having issues with certain molds. If big H asked those molds were taken off websites, (Usually something currently available.) In the end these guys encourage multiple people buying even more Hasbro/other copywrite holder product. So usually they let them be, unless something bad was brought to their attention.

Repros are bad, but only in the context of passing them off as real, which is fraud. I personally have no issues with casting for customs as I am not a vintage collector & as long as no one is commiting fraud. Repacking items as new/refurbished is a topic I tend to stay away from since its not my thing.

I think more serious vintage collectors know how to spot the obvious fakes.
 
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Pre 2010 I remember a few castors, having issues with certain molds. If big H asked those molds were taken off websites, (Usually something currently available.) In the end these guys encourage multiple people buying even more Hasbro/other copywrite holder product. So usually they let them be, unless something bad was brought to their attention.

Repros are bad, but only in the context of passing them off as real, which is fraud. I personally have no issues with casting for customs as I am not a vintage collector & as long as no one is commiting fraud. Repacking items as new/refurbished is a topic I tend to stay away from since its not my thing.

I think more serious vintage collectors know how to spot the obvious fakes.
I was out of collecting for years and didn't start again until I started buying the force awakens 3.75 line for my son. That led me back down the rabbit hole. I had never even heard the term "repro" until last year. I was shocked at the sophistication of these bootleg figures out there.
 
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The real question is why would anybody care one way or the other, unless they're the head of the companies that would theoretically stand to profit from such items (Hasbro/Disney)?

The whole debate against these kinds of items is pointless. Do you think you're going to get an "atta boy!" from LFL? I can assure you you're not.

If Hasbro or Disney is concerned about it, they have the lawyers to shut it down in a heartbeat. Until then, no point going on a personal crusade to defend corporations that don't even know you exist.
 
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The term repro has a negative connotation to it. At first, it probably was unscrupulous people remaking weapons and selling them as genuine vintage. Not cool and not good. That is presenting something with a false pretense. Stan Solo is the opposite of that. He is bringing items to market that are out of reach for 99% of people.

By your reasoning, no one but Ford, Chevy, or Dodge should be making reproduction parts for classic cars? Same situation. Autozone and Orielys should be sued out of business for selling reproduction parts.

If there is a legality issue at hand that is between Lucas/Hasbro/Disney and the people making the reproductions. Trying it in the court of public opinion is a waste of breath.

I highly recommend checking out Stan Solo on etsy and see some of the quality pieces he has to offer. I have had nothing but great service from Chris and everything I have purchased is top notch.

 
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The real question is why would anybody care one way or the other, unless they're the head of the companies that would theoretically stand to profit from such items (Hasbro/Disney)?

The whole debate against these kinds of items is pointless. Do you think you're going to get an "atta boy!" from LFL? I can assure you you're not.

If Hasbro or Disney is concerned about it, they have the lawyers to shut it down in a heartbeat. Until then, no point going on a personal crusade to defend corporations that don't even know you exist.

Absolutely, exactly and precisely, and other words ending with -ly that express the same :)
 
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The real question is why would anybody care one way or the other, unless they're the head of the companies that would theoretically stand to profit from such items (Hasbro/Disney)?

The whole debate against these kinds of items is pointless. Do you think you're going to get an "atta boy!" from LFL? I can assure you you're not.

If Hasbro or Disney is concerned about it, they have the lawyers to shut it down in a heartbeat. Until then, no point going on a personal crusade to defend corporations that don't even know you exist.
It's not about caring but I do find the whole thing fascinating. It is an illegal practice, to say otherwise it's just flat out false. I have no idea why they haven't been shut down but I would love to talk to legal at Hasbro and Disney to find out why. I also find it fascinating how rabidly people who buy these forgeries will defend why they buy them. I don't expect any kind of fist bump from the companies that are being ripped off. It's an interesting subject that I started a thread about. That's it.
 
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The mego thing came straight from Marty Abrams, owner of Mego. Many of their sculpts found their way onto 5 and dime blow mold figures and the like. As well as the outfits. Some of the others were straight up reissues and found in odd lot back in the late 80s. Nothing they could do.
 
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And regarding them overall, I want them and am willing to buy them. So are at least 12,000 others. Look at the sales Stan Solo has on His site.
 
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Correct, 3.75. I think customizing for your own collection is perfectly alright. No problems there. Customizing and then selling would not be but it's a little more murky. If you buy a figure off the shelf and then sell it to someone else, there is nothing wrong with that. Licenses have been paid and there is no law against reselling. If you buy a figure off the shelf and then retool, repaint, etc and then sell it as something else I would think that would be illegal. But that's a good point.
Honestly just shut up, its actually funny watching you get so uptight about something that doesnt affect you personally, you do realise that there toys ?

I love stan solo figures, the quality is out of this world and there amazing, there filling spaces in collectors collections without the hefty price tag of originals and I think it's a good thing, you need to get off your high horse and realise your meant to collect for the enjoyment, it's actually extremely sad to listen to you go on like this.

I will continue to support Stan solo as hes doing amazing work and the bottom line here is if there are legal issues then why haven't Hasbro or Disney shut them down then ?

The point is they probably dont care, in fact they probably see its creating a market for retro figures so that's a good thing for them

Now please disappear under that rock that says nobody cares lol
 
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If Hasbro would give us what we wanted, there would be no market for these. But just like the movie industry churning out reboots, they lost their vision and imagination in regards to their retros. Stan Solo's figs FEEL vintage. Let's face it Hasbro's original additions have been less than stellar. Looking more like ReAction figures than Kenner ones. Tarkin could have been much better, and Banana visor Luke is a Lazy retool as well. But look at SSolo's Slave Leia. It fits in way better than any retro releases. The figures themselves are of the utmost quality.
 
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Honestly just shut up, its actually funny watching you get so uptight about something that doesnt affect you personally, you do realise that there toys ?

I love stan solo figures, the quality is out of this world and there amazing, there filling spaces in collectors collections without the hefty price tag of originals and I think it's a good thing, you need to get off your high horse and realise your meant to collect for the enjoyment, it's actually extremely sad to listen to you go on like this.

I will continue to support Stan solo as hes doing amazing work and the bottom line here is if there are legal issues then why haven't Hasbro or Disney shut them down then ?

The point is they probably dont care, in fact they probably see its creating a market for retro figures so that's a good thing for them

Now please disappear under that rock that says nobody cares lol
Dude, why the hostility? You don't agree with this thread then don't read but don't come here and tell me to shut up and crawl under a rock. I don't understand what is the matter with some of you. Do you feel like a man now that you've flexed your keyboard muscles and " laid the smackdown"? Scroll back up and read through. No one's being an _ss here except you. That should tell you something. Don't like it, read another thread but no reason to be rude.
 
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Dude, why the hostility? You don't agree with this thread then don't read but don't come here and tell me to shut up and crawl under a rock. I don't understand what is the matter with some of you. Do you feel like a man now that you've flexed your keyboard muscles and " laid the smackdown"? Scroll back up and read through. No one's being an _ss here except you. That should tell you something. Don't like it, read another thread but no reason to be rude.
Your just a very very sad individual to get so worked up about reproductions, if there wasnt a demand they wouldn't exist
 
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Whoa! Wait a second here! You mean to tell me if there wasn't demand for something there wouldn't be a product? Good lord man, you're as genius! The business world needs more smart people like you!
 
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If Hasbro would give us what we wanted, there would be no market for these. But just like the movie industry churning out reboots, they lost their vision and imagination in regards to their retros. Stan Solo's figs FEEL vintage. Let's face it Hasbro's original additions have been less than stellar. Looking more like ReAction figures than Kenner ones. Tarkin could have been much better, and Banana visor Luke is a Lazy retool as well. But look at SSolo's Slave Leia. It fits in way better than any retro releases. The figures themselves are of the utmost quality.
Lobot, you seem like a decent guy, other than telling me to take this conversation to a brick wall (which I did, welcome😀). Is it the quality and variety of figures that makes it ok to sell knockoffs, in your opinion? Not looking to argue, just trying to see where the line is.
 
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Whoa! Wait a second here! You mean to tell me if there wasn't demand for something there wouldn't be a product? Good lord man, you're as genius! The business world needs more smart people like you!

Your so funny but sad, anyway moving on..

If anyone wants to buy these absolutely amazing quality figures which apart from the date stamp are identical to the originals minus the steep price tag check out the store below and lets support these amazing products on the link below

Stan Solo Shop
 
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Lobot, you seem like a decent guy, other than telling me to take this conversation to a brick wall (which I did, welcome😀). Is it the quality and variety of figures that makes it ok to sell knockoffs, in your opinion? Not looking to argue, just trying to see where the line is.
I have been crafting and casting my own figures for years. And a lot of creativity and work goes into it. When Mego closed its doors it left holes in my collection never to be filled. Hence I made my own Namor, Daredevil and Dr. Doom. People went nuts for them and asked me to make some for them. Which I did. Who knew Mego would make a comeback? Still None of those figures exist.
On to Star Wars, and way before Retros, the line was dead. Made Tarkin and others. Parts are now expensive and the ammount of time that goes into them is way more than you think.
Not to mention some people just can't do them.
Do you think the people that can't make them don't want them? For about $50 I can have a factory fresh Biggs, or Slave Leia. And without hunting down parts, resculpting, casting, or Painting.
Nobody serms to complain about 3d printed Playset or vehicle parts, which are churned out in the same manor....
I want what I want, and if Kenner isn't making it I'm glad someone is. Have you ever made a good custom? If you did you should be able to recognize both the hard work that goes into it, and the graciousness of having them readily available. I'd rather be able to have something available with the choice of buying it than having absolutely no chance of having it at all.
Hasbro despite having the rights to make them chose to make inferior product with an extremely limited selection. With that being said you have a choice. Buy em or dont.
The brick wall comment is because I am so sick of hearing the debate. It clogs up pages and derails threads. Been sifting through that crap for years. Live and let live.
Repros are great for folks who will settle for "good enough". And thats great. Everyone should be able to afford and have what makes them happy. I know a lot of folks that have dug out their stuff and want to complete their sets. But they can't afford to. Repro figs fit that bill. And when you already have them all, you yearn for the what ifs, and now Bam here they are.
Like them or not, they exist and are here to stay. Disney has billions so aside from moral ambiguity these aren't hurting anyone except those who are irked by it. Hasbro is still making money hand over fist, and Star Wars marches on. These actually BRING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE HASBRO AND DISNEY HAVE NOT... CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.
These are driven by passion, not money. If you know how much money went into the tooling alone, there is not much profit in them at all. The tooling for 1 figure alone costs as much as a new car. Live and let live....
 
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For me, it's a double-edged sword as an original Kenner Star Wars MOC & loose vintage collector.

I think the Stan Solo, Toy Weaver, ProCustom and other high quality "custom repro" creators do amazing work. I enjoy the creation of the "never produced" figures that some fans of the 3.75" Kenner Star Wars line have wished for from Kenner/Hasbro. I have purchased some of them, and my personal moral compass was influenced by seeing the SS Stamp or NO-Stamp offerings as well as the fact the items I purchased weren't the "nearly identical" reproductions of original Kenner figures.

I do also agree that this, like anything, could be used to commit fraud by nefarious individuals on uninformed victims wishing to purchase a MOC / HTF expensive original with the handful of "nearly identical" figures, cards & bubbles being offered: (Stormtrooper Luke, Stormtrooper, Yakface, Blue Snag, Amanaman, Boba Fett, 9D9, R4-D4 red bar, Droids R2 and R2). I personally would like to see the production of these types of repros end, or at the very least have differentiating markings / sculpts to clearly identify them as custom repros... just like my hope that Hasbro continues to make "new, unmade" figures and limit the original repros.

It is up to Hasbro or Disney if they want to shut it down. So, maybe they have a line in the sand that hasn't been crossed yet? I do wonder if one day they will send a cease and desist letter, but until then, I don't see pandora's box closing.

We all vote with our wallets, so I'll likely continue to purchase the "unmade" customs I like, and avoid supporting the straight repros of originals.
 
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I think the back lash against customs, repros and other related items is that the earlier collectors who bought and amassed their collections BEFORE SW became popular are indeed concerned that their collections values will drop as they repro's and customs grow in popularity. On the other hand, I feel these repros and customs add to the artistic side of SW, allowing talented fans to express their creativity.

My only problem with repros is if someone is selling one, claiming its an original vintage item when in fact its a repro. There are many legitimate reasons for a collector to buy repros and we should not be telling anyone how to collect.
 
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