Boyega having a whinge

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I find this amusing.


Boyega on a rant that the non-white sequel characters got sidelined in favour of Driver and Ridley.

Everyone got sidelined in favour of them.

He also blames Disney but not Abrams who wrote the film where he is sidelined the most and who threw out the screenplay where Finn is actually a decent charactervand a hero???

I assuming Abrams gets a pass because he has a job lined up?

And how is it Disney's fault that he was the subject of idiot racists?
 
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Boyega needs to just shut his damn pie hole. Hes a punk from England who starred in some weird CGI sci movie long before he got chosen to be in the Star Wars sequel trilogy movies.
 
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I do feel his character should have been developed more, in fact I was on board with his and Rey's future since TFA. I was really let down with how he got sidelined and what we wound up with. The potential was there.

That's not to say I think he's a great actor or should have been the star, because he's not. He's slightly above average IMO, and it was probably elevated to that by being next to Daisy.

I feel he's probably just jumping on this certain bandwagon to call attention to himself.
 
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imagine the fat kid in spiderman whining that he got "sidelined" in favor of Tom Holland and Zendaya.

or Peter Mayhew whining that his character didn't get a medal at the end of SW'77.

Peter was nothing but gracious after playing chewie -- he was ALWAYS a class act.

Boyega and Tran played SUPPORTING CHARACTERS, FFS

Boyega was NOT the lead. by any stretch of the imagination. Finn was the starwars-equivalent of Happy Hogan

he needs to take his head out of his ass and stop comparing himself to Ridley and Driver.

I have lost all respect for this guy.
 
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imagine the fat kid in spiderman whining that he got "sidelined" in favor of Tom Holland and Zendaya.

or Peter Mayhew whining that his character didn't get a medal at the end of SW'77.

Peter was nothing but gracious after playing chewie -- he was ALWAYS a class act.

Boyega and Tran played SUPPORTING CHARACTERS, FFS

Boyega was NOT the lead. by any stretch of the imagination. Finn was the starwars-equivalent of Happy Hogan

he needs to take his head out of his ass and stop comparing himself to Ridley and Driver.

I have lost all respect for this guy.
Umm....Fin was a main character from the get go. But the crapola writing and the bad decisions by Disney pushed him into the background more and more. By your logic Luke and Vader are Star Wars, and the rest of the cast is an afterthought. This movie had damened if not flat out ruined careers, and Boyega has every right to complain. So do Isaccs and others. There are huuuuuge scenes that were filmed and plotlines that lead to dead ends. Good to see someone call them out. I am sure Ridley and Driver are just playing nice too in hopes that they still look professional in the acting world. Disney can get you essentially blackballed in Hollywood because they now OWN 50% of it.
 
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Boyega should be satisfied with the movies he has had been in besides Star Wars.

Hes been in that Block Attack or whatever the hell its called. Also Pacific Rim 2.

Plus Adam Driver has been in good movies such as that zombie comedy movie and that weird modern day Quixote movie
 
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I'm not the one who placed him in the same category as Kelly Tran. he did that himself. so I guess if Finn was a "main character" from the get go, then I suppose, by Boyega's logic, so was Rose (?).

his entire rant is all about 'supporting characters' being "sidelined" by lead characters. and he seems to be talking specifically about TROS -- does he honestly think that "more finn" would have saved that movie? it was ALL about Rey/Ren -- THEY were the "main characters"; not Finn.

(and FWIW, TROS could have used another 2 hours of screentime and STILL not resolved the Rey/Ren storyline in a satisfactory manner -- Abrams had his hands full, without worrying about bolstering boyega's career with "more finn" -- for boyega to now blame the end result on Racism, is simply beyond the pale -- pun intended).

he's banging the wrong drum.
 
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Boyega should be satisfied with the movies he has had been in besides Star Wars.

Hes been in that Block Attack or whatever the hell its called. Also Pacific Rim 2.

Plus Adam Driver has been in good movies such as that zombie comedy movie and that weird modern day Quixote movie
areed. SW opened a huge door for him. he should be grateful. SW allowed him the opportunity to be the lead character in his OWN movie (pacific rim)... and look how well that turned out. it was entirely forgettable. he single-handedly buried that entire franchise. I'd be surprised if we ever see another one.
 
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here's a thought:

quote-remember-there-are-no-small-parts-only-small-actors-constantin-stanislavski-28-10-73.jpg


do you think Anthony Hopkins would ever complain that Odin didn't have a larger arc in the Thor movies?

no. because he's bigger than that. he's Anthony ****ing Hopkins, FFS.
 
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There actually would have been a point where I wouldn't of minded seeing his story take on life in a series on D+, explore his coming into his own concerning the Force. Unfortunately that moment has passed.
 
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I do feel his character should have been developed more, in fact I was on board with his and Rey's future since TFA. I was really let down with how he got sidelined and what we wound up with. The potential was there.

That's not to say I think he's a great actor or should have been the star, because he's not. He's slightly above average IMO, and it was probably elevated to that by being next to Daisy.

I feel he's probably just jumping on this certain bandwagon to call attention to himself.

But who sidelined him?

Regardless of what people think of his story in TLJ, Johnson kept him as lead character.

Trevorrow’s story would not only have kept him in a lead role but would have actually developed him into a hero and make is of his time as a trooper.

It was Abrams who choose to scrap that story in favour of a 2 1/2 hour movie where Finn does nothing until the end and then they made a dog’s dinner of that moment.

And as far as I can tell it was Abrams who who was determined from the start to cast based on race and gender.

And it was clear in the production of TFA that Abrams was not bowing to Disney wishes on very much. No reason to believe it wasn’t the same on the last movie.

Yet Abrams is his “boy” and Disney is a villain? And Disney is also responsible for the horrible reaction to his casting?

Only a mad man would claim life, work, acting is harder for woman or people who are not white but a hateful rant that makes no sense doesn’t help - it makes me annoyed at the person ranting.
 
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Umm....Fin was a main character from the get go. But the crapola writing and the bad decisions by Disney pushed him into the background more and more. By your logic Luke and Vader are Star Wars, and the rest of the cast is an afterthought. This movie had damened if not flat out ruined careers, and Boyega has every right to complain. So do Isaccs and others. There are huuuuuge scenes that were filmed and plotlines that lead to dead ends. Good to see someone call them out. I am sure Ridley and Driver are just playing nice too in hopes that they still look professional in the acting world. Disney can get you essentially blackballed in Hollywood because they now OWN 50% of it.

No one’s career is ruined from the Sequels and no one in the industry cares whether the movies are bad.

Everyone who was big before being involved are still working the same and Ridley & Boyega are are getting jobs they’d never have had before.

Boyega has every right to be upset about the idiot racists but not about the job. Did he have a script prior to filming? If Abrams is his “boy” why did he not complain? Even if Disney leaned on Abrams somehow to increase the screen time of Ridley and Driver there was still of room to give Finn (and Rose) stories too.

I do not believe for one second that they realised too late that the additional Fisher were not working.

And it made no sense to Tran with Fisher anyway. Poe had the relationship with Leia and he could have been left at the base. He did nothing anyway. Somewhere along the mission Finn inspires a trooper mutiny. And they could even have satisfied the SWJ food by putting Rey & Rose in scenes together and imply or just show a blossoming romance but more importantly have an actual mechanic on the Falcon

It was the writing that sidelined Boyega not the owners of the franchise.

“Issac and the others” have a right to complain what?
 
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No one’s career is ruined from the Sequels and no one in the industry cares whether the movies are bad.

Everyone who was big before being involved are still working the same and Ridley & Boyega are are getting jobs they’d never have had before.

Boyega has every right to be upset about the idiot racists but not about the job. Did he have a script prior to filming? If Abrams is his “boy” why did he not complain? Even if Disney leaned on Abrams somehow to increase the screen time of Ridley and Driver there was still of room to give Finn (and Rose) stories too.

I do not believe for one second that they realised too late that the additional Fisher were not working.

And it made no sense to Tran with Fisher anyway. Poe had the relationship with Leia and he could have been left at the base. He did nothing anyway. Somewhere along the mission Finn inspires a trooper mutiny. And they could even have satisfied the SWJ food by putting Rey & Rose in scenes together and imply or just show a blossoming romance but more importantly have an actual mechanic on the Falcon

It was the writing that sidelined Boyega not the owners of the franchise.

“Issac and the others” have a right to complain what?
The fact that scenes they trained weeks for left on the cutting room floor is a start. Rian Johnson ruined the entire arc of Fin, by essentially writing a closing act as the second chapter. Instead of exploring the mysterious circumstances surrounding just why he broke out of the brainwashing, and how he could even survive a lightsaber fight with Kylo they sent him on a meaningless side quest. By the third movie he was supposed to be revealed as a force sensitive Jedi candidate. And all he gets is an unfinished story arc. I don't think it was proper for him to blame it on racism however.
Reports have speculated that Ridley is having trouble landing roles because of Star Wars. Being in a bad movie knocks your value down. And TROS is pretty bad.
 
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The fact that scenes they trained weeks for left on the cutting room floor is a start. Rian Johnson ruined the entire arc of Fin, by essentially writing a closing act as the second chapter. Instead of exploring the mysterious circumstances surrounding just why he broke out of the brainwashing, and how he could even survive a lightsaber fight with Kylo they sent him on a meaningless side quest. By the third movie he was supposed to be revealed as a force sensitive Jedi candidate. And all he gets is an unfinished story arc. I don't think it was proper for him to blame it on racism however.
Reports have speculated that Ridley is having trouble landing roles because of Star Wars. Being in a bad movie knocks your value down. And TROS is pretty bad.

Daisy is doing just fine. She's forgetting what times we are currently living in. On Imdb she has leading roles in pre-prodcution-, post-production or announced movies, so it's not like she's not getting roles.
So I agree and I don't think she will be the A-list actor that Star Wars could have slingshot her into. Neither will John Boyega. And that is probably an effect of being in Disney Star Wars. At least in my opinion.
 
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The fact that scenes they trained weeks for left on the cutting room floor is a start. Rian Johnson ruined the entire arc of Fin, by essentially writing a closing act as the second chapter. Instead of exploring the mysterious circumstances surrounding just why he broke out of the brainwashing, and how he could even survive a lightsaber fight with Kylo they sent him on a meaningless side quest. By the third movie he was supposed to be revealed as a force sensitive Jedi candidate. And all he gets is an unfinished story arc. I don't think it was proper for him to blame it on racism however.
Reports have speculated that Ridley is having trouble landing roles because of Star Wars. Being in a bad movie knocks your value down. And TROS is pretty bad.

Abrams hobbled Finn’s development from the start.
How Finn broke the brainwashing is something that should have been explored in the first movie at least a little.

Instead Abrams and Kasdan wrote Finn as having fully developed personality. And none of the stormtroopers in any of the movies behaved brainwashed.

Yes Johnson could have tried to salvage that but how ?

Abrams showed no evidence in TFA that Finn is Force sensitive and like the brainwashing, why is Johnson to blame for not going there? TFA does explain how Finn is a able to use a sword. The riot trooper shows us they get training in similar weapons. Ample examples in the mythology that normals can fight Force users. The problem with the forest duel is Ren - not Finn or Rey.

The third movie not going anywhere with Finn is Abrams fault. Bar the idiotic “romance” with Rey & Poe and the nonsense about the Dark Side being a good thing Trevorrow’s story was far superior and have Finn & Rose a purpose. And would have looked epic. Throwing it out is Abrams’ doing.

Boyega is justified in being upset about racism but sympathy I would have had is erased by his hateful rant aimed Disney when Abrams is responsible - the man is all talk about equality and diversity but has nothing more than talk. He was concerned with having black actors on main roles than with giving those black actors an interesting character to work with. Same with the lesbian kiss. Means nothing and most people didn’t even notice. As best I can tell all the complaints about it came from homosexual fans and none from the pearl clutching “think of the children” types.

The Sequels should have had no love stories for the new characters. Men and women being equal and being friends without the romance -isn’t that “hip” and “modern” thinking?

You want to “reach out” to an under represented section of fandom? Fine, put Rey and Rose in scenes of playful ro



Johnson gets a lot of blame for not picking up story threads that are not there to begin with. TLJ has problems of its own - people don’t need to give it problems that belong to another writer.
 
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^

THIS.

Oscar Issac specially has ZERO to complain about and I don't see him doing any.

Cause he knows he's doing more than just good career wise.

I’d like the chance to complain AT Issac.

He is very talented actor, can’t imagine any director objecting to him giving input on his character (especially in this case - he was only supposed to be a red herring character) and he is supposed to be a fan

How could he not see that his character was paper thin
 
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Daisy is doing just fine. She's forgetting what times we are currently living in. On Imdb she has leading roles in pre-prodcution-, post-production or announced movies, so it's not like she's not getting roles.
So I agree and I don't think she will be the A-list actor that Star Wars could have slingshot her into. Neither will John Boyega. And that is probably an effect of being in Disney Star Wars. At least in my opinion.

A lot in pre-production and not much in production (even taking Covid into account. Nina Gold and her team are great at cringing talent but with Ridley and Boyega did they simply find two people that match what Abrams wanted or did they find two people with real talent?

Ridley was good in Orient Express. None of the characters are that original but something about her two one on one scenes with Branagh made them among the best parts of the movie.
 
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Ah lads, this gets worse.

Boyega has a production company and the signed a deal with Netflix back in March?

What does he think got him in the door to talk to Netflix?
 
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I don't know, I get where he's coming from...albeit a little too militant and politically motivated for my taste. But I don't necessarily think he's wrong in what he said. Finn, for my money, was the most interesting of the three new leads in TFA. The concept of a defecting Stormtrooper was one of the only new and interesting ideas in a film that's largely (IMO entertaining enough but...) derivative. But you hit The Last Jedi and he's really relegated to a B-plot sideline that culminates in what ultimately ends up being a waste of time red herring sidequest. The whole Canto Bight sequence and codebreaker arch can, in every way, be cut...and nothing would really change. It was obvious to me, Johnson simply had no idea what to do with the role. So I don't think he's so much complaining it's a "small" role by the second film, but rather that it's really no longer a relevant role. The saddest aspect is, to really make him relevant and have an arch, he should have died via the self sacrifice. It was a better angle to go in and makes him important once again, albeit...well...dead.

But I do think he is being slightly, ah, self-consumed here. This is the story of Rey and Ben Solo, they should get the most attention and focus. Andy Serkis for sure got screwed over, Snoke isn't even involved in a red herring plot...he literally became a red herring CHARACTER in and of himself. I've always argued that Poe is a character that's, in essence, just there and that's it. Now I don't think that because J.J. Abrams and Rian wrote these that all the blame falls upon them. I'm sure Disney had mandates and pushed things. A case in point: Rose. Rose did not resonate with much of anyone, so I'd guess Disney mandated less of her. Now that, for me, was actually a wise decision...as I really think she's a poor actress and a worthless and cringy role. But John Boyega is far from the only role who got pushed to the wayside, not even the only minority. Poe, Hux, Snoke, Rose, Jannah, Zori Bliss, DJ, Phasma, Holdo...just...who cares? None of those roles are given enough time, backstory, or real relevance to invest in. They're mostly just cardboard cutouts and when something more is attempted with some, it's just nothing of quality. The only roles worth even really caring about are the classic OT roles (of which it can be argued if they were even done well...), Rey, and Kylo/Ben Solo. So while I think the issue is, sure that's the way it is, but the question is...should it have been the way it was done?

Not to mention, even the ones we do have more interest in are predominately ruined. Han Solo I was...mostly okay with...but not particularly fond of him turning into a deadbeat dad who gets killed by his emo son. Leia has among the most laughably cringe moments in the history of SW now. Luke got it, by far, the worst IMO. Hamill's acting is fine, but I'm with him full throttle...that's not Luke. Boy is Palpatine a stretch. I mean I get "how" he returned, I get it. It seems to be very misunderstood. However, just having him return at all...perhaps wasn't wise. I guess you can count Yoda as "returning" in a manner, but like RLM said...why is he written as goofy "fake" Yoda that was testing Luke in ESB? Huh? Then Chewbacca, Lando, C-3PO, and R2 are basically just there because..."Hey, remember them?" Same can be said for Nien Nunb and Wedge, just cameos, which I get but technically speaking wouldn't people rather see these roles more expanded than just have new roles that never get developed? I mean even poor Ackbar got the cold shoulder. Freaking Ackbar wasn't immune! I'd take a subplot with Finn and Nien or Ackbar being kept alive to become the one in charge over Rose and Holdo any day. I mean these characters already exist in universe and have history, use them.

So I mean, my issue isn't so much that Boyega is throwing some shade (I dislike this notion that he's not "allowed" to) so much as...he's acting like he's the only one who has room to be disappointed.
 
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@MysterioMaximus

If Finn’s adventure in TLJ is a “b plot” then so is the Han/Leia story in TESB.

Neither are a B plot. You might like Finn’s mission in TLJ but it a main plot and he still main character. It is Abrams who relegated Finn to he sidelines in the third movie.

People keep blaming Johnson for not driving into the stormtrooper/brainwash backstory but why? It was Abrams who messed that up by making Finn “wake up” with a fully formed personality who enjoys killing the troopers he knows are brainwashed.

The first attempt to have Finn reach out to his fellow victims is a deleted scene from TLJ - an alternate (and much superior) confrontation with Phasma.

Abrams mucked up the brainwashing element. I think Johnson should have repaired that damage he probably figured why bother since it is already a glaring plot hole.
 
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Can't help but disagree with literally every word. Han and Leia's story results in things. It develops a romance, their subsequent betrayal and capture, the loss of Han Solo which leads into an entire segment in ROTJ, and culminated in Luke's botched rescue and revelation, Luke having gone there because it's where his friends are.

In The Last Jedi, nothing comes from Canto Bight. I've never even seen someone attempt to defend this. There is no natural Finn romance with Rose, albeit lazily and force-attempted last minute. When your audience laughs at Rose's "profound monologue" and "confession of love" like mine did, you've failed as a writer. The film then randomly yarns on child slavery and animal abuse, rich people are bad kids, when it's not remotely immediate or relevant to any of the larger film. It feels like those old government sanctioned comics where, suddenly, Spider-Man is giving some preachy PSA to not do drugs. Why is this in here, we're here to read about him fighting Green Goblin. It's never even brought up again, it's a loose message, it doesn't contribute to the larger overarching narrative. They then never find the "codebreaker," rather they're arrested on a sort of gag twist rather than ever truly placed in sincere danger. How exciting...just what SW needs, a minor inconvenience due to...a parking violation. How riveting! They then escape via the help of some clearly questionable and sketchy crook who just happens to also be a codebreaker. Convenient! Finally, when in danger undercover on Snoke's ship, what happens? The mission is botched, DJ betrays them, and they escape to rejoin the Resistance. Nothing in any of that...matters...they might as well have just STAYED with the Resistance. The only thing in literally all of that that has any lasting consequence is Phasma dying...and extremely anticlimactically...and does that even really matter that much? She's a glorified extra!

I'm sorry, but no...it is a large chunk of the running time, yes, but length does not equal relevance. Nothing here sticks, it's a massive waste of time. And Ryan wrote that, not J.J Abrams. Finn breaking his brainwashing isn't "a plot hole" at all! It's overtly obvious he did because he's force sensitive, it just takes an arch over the course of multiple films to get to that revelation. Perhaps it would have felt more of a natural progression had it been included in TLJ, but Johnson is the one who utterly abandoned that, not Abrams, particularly when Finn's force sensitivity is now RE-INTRODUCED in TROS after being completely omitted from TLJ. Nothing in Canto Bight or the elements that subplot goes to have anything to do with him being force sensitive, but it was...albeit subtle...set up in TFA and ultimately revealed by TROS. It doesn't feel like a NATURAL reveal however because Johnson decided to do NOTHING with it in a MIDDLE chapter. You know, the one that usually has the most character growth but in this case, among the least and certainly for Finn. His entire arch from TLJ ultimately boils down to nothing but a sparknote or annotation that really is optional to even know for an audience member to get his full story from 7-9. To understand Finn as a character, all you need to view is what J.J. wrote. Nothing else, outside of him having survived Kylo's attack, is essential in TLJ. You could quite literally have him STAY in a coma for ALL of TLJ, pick his story up by waking him at the beginning of TROS, and nada changes.

Han and Leia's plot in ESB results in a lasting relationship, playing off what was hinted toward in Star Wars, and lasts. Finn and Rose never feel romantically involved until, suddenly, it's a thing?! It come straight out of nowhere and...poof...never discussed again. I say good on J.J. for ignoring it because, frankly, it's never natural developed in TLJ in first place.

Lando betrays Han and Leia, but this has consequence. It does not when DJ betrays Finn and Rose, they escape unharmed and return to the Resistance. Han is frozen in carbonite, it has weight. Not to mention DJ just up and disappears for good without ever really getting any true growth as a character, Lando has a returning redemption arch.

Rey returns to the Resistance only after the confrontation with Snoke and Kylo, Finn and Rose's story never crossing over to theirs because again their mission failed. Rey's major "revelation" is that she's "nobody," how satisfying...which ultimately didn't even stick...and then all are reunited, everyone flies off, not one lasting character really harmed outside of Luke (who couldn't even bother with actually physically showing) which...why he even died makes little sense. Whereas in ESB, Luke goes to cloud city to rescue his friends, fails to save Han Solo, and gets his butt handed to him by what's then revealed to be his daddy. Every storyline culminates into each individual line coming together at the end at cloud city, each had a piece to play. Finn and Rose's story, well, doesn't.

One has consequences, one matters and has lasting effects and a compelling and progressing story, and one...has none of that.
 
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I couldn't agree more.

But I'd also add that Finn's major problem is that he's one character too many in a film/series of films that has that issue in spades. Simply put, there are far too many people in the sequels and they eliminate the time that's needed to expand on the main people. Rey is still a shell, because the films spent too much time dicking about with nobodies, including Finn it has to be said, whose story ends as soon as he defects. He then just becomes a problem for a writer to write around...hence his diminished returns in 'The Last Jedi' and 'The Rise of Skywalker'.

Poe is another oxygen stealer and is one of the most disposable people in the entire history of Star Wars. Take Poe (and Finn) out of the "story" (what there is of it) and nothing would matter, except for the fact that there would have been more time to develop Rey, which is where the story of the sequels lay. Nearly everyone else, Han, Leia, Chewie, Finn, Poe, Rose, Janna, Holdo and a whole host of unneeded people end up just getting in the way.
 
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I couldn't agree more.

But I'd also add that Finn's major problem is that he's one character too many in a film/series of films that has that issue in spades. Simply put, there are far too many people in the sequels and they eliminate the time that's needed to expand on the main people. Rey is still a shell, because the films spent too much time dicking about with nobodies, including Finn it has to be said, whose story ends as soon as he defects. He then just becomes a problem for a writer to write around...hence his diminished returns in 'The Last Jedi' and 'The Rise of Skywalker'.

Poe is another oxygen stealer and is one of the most disposable people in the entire history of Star Wars. Take Poe (and Finn) out of the "story" (what there is of it) and nothing would matter, except for the fact that there would have been more time to develop Rey, which is where the story of the sequels lay. Nearly everyone else, Han, Leia, Chewie, Finn, Poe, Rose, Janna, Holdo and a whole host of unneeded people end up just getting in the way.

Yup! Poe, for me, is I suppose...fine...but that's ALL he is. He's just so generic, one note. He feels sort of like filling a quota rather than actually ever explored or interesting. We need a Han Solo type, so he'll be a good and brash pilot type. The films even try to push him as a main character, but he just never earns the right to truly be labeled one. He's a character that gets tons of screen time, but ultimately, as a caricature...he's basically little more explored than Wedge mixed with last minute impromptu "I'm not Han Solo" Dash Rendar-like add ons in TROS. By that point, who cares? It's too little too late, why would I care NOW that it's basically over that he was a smuggler and had some bounty hunter fling? One that gets, mind you, what? Five minutes of screen time? Plus even when they do finally try to lend him some backstory, the film is so cocaine-infused fast paced that it's utterly brief. Just so many of these new roles were not properly explored and conceived of, either they had somewhere to go in the beginnings and Johnson ruined that or they just simply were bland and cookie-cutter from straight out the gate.

There are things I did enjoy about the ST, but largely I personally found them uninspired but kind of mindless fun at BEST to legitimately awful at worst. Especially TLJ.

It's especially sad that Oscar Isaac plays Poe, so wasted, as he can be a phenomenal actor. Ex Machina is one of my favorite films in the last darn decade. I don't even think his acting is bad in SW, it's just a very cliched and stereotypical role that it's just nothing standout worthy IMO.
 
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The sequels should have just been about Rey, who's already quite gifted with the Force but goes to Luke to train and help him defeat Kylo Ren and his band of psychos, the Knights of Ren, who have been tearing up planets (for whatever reason, make one up). Maybe Kylo wants to wield a weapon that could end all life as we know it in the galaxy and use it to gain power through the threat of its use? Perhaps it's an ancient Sith weapon that even they were afraid to use and they kept it a secret for 1000's of years. Maybe the Sith even contact Luke Skywalker and join forces with him to defeat Kylo, because while the Sith want control of the galaxy, they do not want its complete destruction.

In the end, there's balance brought to the Force, because the Sith and the Jedi have found a new way forward together, thus fulfilling the prophecy mentioned in the prequels. Luke possibly dies in the fight against Kylo, who is defeated by Rey, who goes on to develop Luke's Jedi training school, instead of just robbing the Skywalker name and buggering off into the desert for no reason.

That's it. there's your trilogy right there and it will allow the story to explore Rey in a meaningful way. No need for Finn, Poe, Rose, or anyone else getting in the way. No need for Rebellion 2.0 or Empire 2.0 either. No need for space chases. No need for memberberries every five minutes.

As far as quotas are concerned, that nonsense is all over the ST. Nearly everything was based on a checkbox and not what was good for the actual story.
 
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Those are some really interesting ideas. I like them. Actually, it's like I've said...I don't hate TFA. I even kind of like what it set up (not...everything) and where it potentially could have gone (which sadly didn't work for me), but as I'm prone to saying...it's just way too safe of a movie and you brought up my BIGGEST issue. I really don't like Starkiller Base. I mean, as I got older, I even started to have issues with the second Death Star. I can roll with it, but when you really think about it, it's kind of silly and certainly lazy. But then...a THIRD attempt?! I get none are IDENTICAL to each other, but come on...from a writers perspective...close enough. That was actually THE hardest to buy, for me anyway. Yeah it's just check the quota, in this case it's "Giant Super-Weapon: CHECK!"

I was always intrigued by the "Kylo isn't a Sith" idea, but it's like that went nowhere or almost got utterly forgotten and he just...well...is a Sith that doesn't classify himself as one?! I...guess?! I think if they'd have explored this whole Knights of Ren thing in depth in the following films and established they're not Sith but this sort of unique new thing that's capable of and aware of unexplored force aspects, your idea (they want to destroy it, Sith want to rule it) could REALLY work.
 
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'The Force Awakens' gets a lot of thumbs up, but I thought it was just ok when I saw it first. On subsequent viewings I've come to the conclusion that it's an awful movie really. We're, literally, walking over ground we've walked over before and nowhere is that more evident than with that Starkiller Base nonsense.

But that's JJ. The guy hasn't a single original idea in his head, but gets by because he's a studio player who can knock out a reboot and bring in the shillings. His entire movie repertoire are either reboots, sequels or a Speilberg riff. He has nothing else in his mystery box.
 
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'The Force Awakens' gets a lot of thumbs up, but I thought it was just ok when I saw it first. On subsequent viewings I've come to the conclusion that it's an awful movie really. We're, literally, walking over ground we've walked over before and nowhere is that more evident than with that Starkiller Base nonsense.

But that's JJ. The guy hasn't a single original idea in his head, but gets by because he's a studio player who can knock out a reboot and bring in the shillings. His entire movie repertoire are either reboots, sequels or a Speilberg riff. He has nothing else in his mystery box.

Well exactly, I don't hate the film. I like it a lot more than you, but it really grew away from me over time. But even on the very first viewing...it's so akin...the similarities so overt from the get-go. They're just so noticeable from even the initial watch, it's impossible to miss. On day one, I hated Starkiller Base. See at first I liked the majority of Force Awakens because, though it's so derivative, I do think the acting and dialogue were far superior to that of the Prequels: ON AVERAGE! Certainly exceptions to that. And I was optimistic for a time on where this would be going. I could excuse its gutless approach because it was the first in the new franchise and I saw it as almost being pigeonholed into having to be TOO much like the OT due to the guff the PT got. Maybe that's true. Maybe I was just being too kind, giving it the benefit of the doubt.

See here's what I mean: I was willing to forgive this one for being so safely uninspired, all those quotas (Kylo is Vader, Rey is Luke, Jakku is Tatooine, SKB is the DS, Snoke is Palpatine, etc), in the hopes that the next two would really go in an original direction and expand these roles in less OT tributary ways and more uniquely their own. When I say this, a lot of people call me a hypocrite because I hated The Last Jedi, but I don't find this hypocritical at all. Yes I wanted 8 and 9 to have more their own identity and less remake, which Last Jedi did. However, what I found was Rian Johnson did the exact opposite of J.J. Abrams. If Abrams played it too safe, Johnson went way too OUT of the box, not to mention their writing doesn't seem to have been collaborative whatsoever. Same spectrum, opposite ends, both extremes. Just because I wanted something more unique doesn't mean that if someone gives me unique...that I'll inherently like it.

I always use food analogies: Sometimes I don't want to order a regular cheeseburger, maybe I'll say "Ah! Surprise me with my burger!" That could mean, maybe it'll have swiss and mushrooms, maybe an egg on top, how about BBQ sauce and onion rings? The point is, I know I like a variety of burgers and those are still within the realm of a burger, but also it's different enough to spice things up. Rian brought me calamari. Calamari...in a pancake! Yes it's unique, but it's not following the established guidelines I set up with saying my order. I said I like burgers. Does that make sense? Subsequently, like many others that encountered my same issues with The Last Jedi, many SW fans get what I consider unfairly labeled as impossible to please. I'm not at all. I adored Rogue One and the Mandalorian, even mostly enjoyed Solo. Mostly. I simply recognize what I deem trash-level inconsistent and nonsensical writing riddled with cringe humor when I see it...whether it's uniquely done or not. Unique doesn't inherently mean tasteful or quality. Someone once cooked Gordon Ramsay a rotisserie chicken inside a whole pumpkin. Sure it's original, he's certainly never going to forget it, but is it good? Someone like Rian may think so, pretty sure most would not.

There's a very fine line between so safe that it's no longer interesting and investing and just becomes derivative or there's so different it doesn't even really belong in and perhaps even broke the sandbox. Abrams is one, Rian is the other.

The irony now is, though I do still like TFA best of the ST, since really my liking for it was banking off of what was to come later in the sequels and considering how much I disliked where that went, I actually came to not care NEARLY as much for it now as well. It was tainted for me.
 
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Can't help but disagree with literally every word. Han and Leia's story results in things. It develops a romance, their subsequent betrayal and capture, the loss of Han Solo which leads into an entire segment in ROTJ, and culminated in Luke's botched rescue and revelation, Luke having gone there because it's where his friends are.

In The Last Jedi, nothing comes from Canto Bight. I've never even seen someone attempt to defend this. There is no natural Finn romance with Rose, albeit lazily and force-attempted last minute. When your audience laughs at Rose's "profound monologue" and "confession of love" like mine did, you've failed as a writer. The film then randomly yarns on child slavery and animal abuse, rich people are bad kids, when it's not remotely immediate or relevant to any of the larger film. It feels like those old government sanctioned comics where, suddenly, Spider-Man is giving some preachy PSA to not do drugs. Why is this in here, we're here to read about him fighting Green Goblin. It's never even brought up again, it's a loose message, it doesn't contribute to the larger overarching narrative. They then never find the "codebreaker," rather they're arrested on a sort of gag twist rather than ever truly placed in sincere danger. How exciting...just what SW needs, a minor inconvenience due to...a parking violation. How riveting! They then escape via the help of some clearly questionable and sketchy crook who just happens to also be a codebreaker. Convenient! Finally, when in danger undercover on Snoke's ship, what happens? The mission is botched, DJ betrays them, and they escape to rejoin the Resistance. Nothing in any of that...matters...they might as well have just STAYED with the Resistance. The only thing in literally all of that that has any lasting consequence is Phasma dying...and extremely anticlimactically...and does that even really matter that much? She's a glorified extra!

I'm sorry, but no...it is a large chunk of the running time, yes, but length does not equal relevance. Nothing here sticks, it's a massive waste of time. And Ryan wrote that, not J.J Abrams. Finn breaking his brainwashing isn't "a plot hole" at all! It's overtly obvious he did because he's force sensitive, it just takes an arch over the course of multiple films to get to that revelation. Perhaps it would have felt more of a natural progression had it been included in TLJ, but Johnson is the one who utterly abandoned that, not Abrams, particularly when Finn's force sensitivity is now RE-INTRODUCED in TROS after being completely omitted from TLJ. Nothing in Canto Bight or the elements that subplot goes to have anything to do with him being force sensitive, but it was...albeit subtle...set up in TFA and ultimately revealed by TROS. It doesn't feel like a NATURAL reveal however because Johnson decided to do NOTHING with it in a MIDDLE chapter. You know, the one that usually has the most character growth but in this case, among the least and certainly for Finn. His entire arch from TLJ ultimately boils down to nothing but a sparknote or annotation that really is optional to even know for an audience member to get his full story from 7-9. To understand Finn as a character, all you need to view is what J.J. wrote. Nothing else, outside of him having survived Kylo's attack, is essential in TLJ. You could quite literally have him STAY in a coma for ALL of TLJ, pick his story up by waking him at the beginning of TROS, and nada changes.

Han and Leia's plot in ESB results in a lasting relationship, playing off what was hinted toward in Star Wars, and lasts. Finn and Rose never feel romantically involved until, suddenly, it's a thing?! It come straight out of nowhere and...poof...never discussed again. I say good on J.J. for ignoring it because, frankly, it's never natural developed in TLJ in first place.

Lando betrays Han and Leia, but this has consequence. It does not when DJ betrays Finn and Rose, they escape unharmed and return to the Resistance. Han is frozen in carbonite, it has weight. Not to mention DJ just up and disappears for good without ever really getting any true growth as a character, Lando has a returning redemption arch.

Rey returns to the Resistance only after the confrontation with Snoke and Kylo, Finn and Rose's story never crossing over to theirs because again their mission failed. Rey's major "revelation" is that she's "nobody," how satisfying...which ultimately didn't even stick...and then all are reunited, everyone flies off, not one lasting character really harmed outside of Luke (who couldn't even bother with actually physically showing) which...why he even died makes little sense. Whereas in ESB, Luke goes to cloud city to rescue his friends, fails to save Han Solo, and gets his butt handed to him by what's then revealed to be his daddy. Every storyline culminates into each individual line coming together at the end at cloud city, each had a piece to play. Finn and Rose's story, well, doesn't.

One has consequences, one matters and has lasting effects and a compelling and progressing story, and one...has none of that.

You missed the point of what I posted.

Regardless of how you feel about the Canto Mission and all that it is is still a big chunk of the story and has Finn as a main character in the film. He isn't sidelined by Johnson, he just gets a story that is very good.

In TRoS he has no story at all. He is just there, shouts names a lot and then rides a horse.

He did not get sidelined by Johnson. He got sidelined by Abrams, who also mucked up the brainwashing backstory that would have made inn an interesting character.

Yet Abrams is beloved while everyone else is a devil?
 
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Yup! Poe, for me, is I suppose...fine...but that's ALL he is. He's just so generic, one note. He feels sort of like filling a quota rather than actually ever explored or interesting. We need a Han Solo type, so he'll be a good and brash pilot type. The films even try to push him as a main character, but he just never earns the right to truly be labeled one. He's a character that gets tons of screen time, but ultimately, as a caricature...he's basically little more explored than Wedge mixed with last minute impromptu "I'm not Han Solo" Dash Rendar-like add ons in TROS. By that point, who cares? It's too little too late, why would I care NOW that it's basically over that he was a smuggler and had some bounty hunter fling? One that gets, mind you, what? Five minutes of screen time? Plus even when they do finally try to lend him some backstory, the film is so cocaine-infused fast paced that it's utterly brief. Just so many of these new roles were not properly explored and conceived of, either they had somewhere to go in the beginnings and Johnson ruined that or they just simply were bland and cookie-cutter from straight out the gate.

There are things I did enjoy about the ST, but largely I personally found them uninspired but kind of mindless fun at BEST to legitimately awful at worst. Especially TLJ.

It's especially sad that Oscar Isaac plays Poe, so wasted, as he can be a phenomenal actor. Ex Machina is one of my favorite films in the last darn decade. I don't even think his acting is bad in SW, it's just a very cliched and stereotypical role that it's just nothing standout worthy IMO.

Poe was never meant to be a main character. He was meant topper to be a main character but would die in the TIE crash to shock the audience. That is Abrams wanted an established name. So no one would see the surprise coming.

Issac was disappointed it was a supporting part but later decided to do it anyway. Unfortunately by then Abrams had shoehorned Poe into a half ****d larger role just to have a respected actor to put in the credits.
 
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Well exactly, I don't hate the film. I like it a lot more than you, but it really grew away from me over time. But even on the very first viewing...it's so akin...the similarities so overt from the get-go. They're just so noticeable from even the initial watch, it's impossible to miss. On day one, I hated Starkiller Base. See at first I liked the majority of Force Awakens because, though it's so derivative, I do think the acting and dialogue were far superior to that of the Prequels: ON AVERAGE! Certainly exceptions to that. And I was optimistic for a time on where this would be going. I could excuse its gutless approach because it was the first in the new franchise and I saw it as almost being pigeonholed into having to be TOO much like the OT due to the guff the PT got. Maybe that's true. Maybe I was just being too kind, giving it the benefit of the doubt.

See here's what I mean: I was willing to forgive this one for being so safely uninspired, all those quotas (Kylo is Vader, Rey is Luke, Jakku is Tatooine, SKB is the DS, Snoke is Palpatine, etc), in the hopes that the next two would really go in an original direction and expand these roles in less OT tributary ways and more uniquely their own. When I say this, a lot of people call me a hypocrite because I hated The Last Jedi, but I don't find this hypocritical at all. Yes I wanted 8 and 9 to have more their own identity and less remake, which Last Jedi did. However, what I found was Rian Johnson did the exact opposite of J.J. Abrams. If Abrams played it too safe, Johnson went way too OUT of the box, not to mention their writing doesn't seem to have been collaborative whatsoever. Same spectrum, opposite ends, both extremes. Just because I wanted something more unique doesn't mean that if someone gives me unique...that I'll inherently like it.

I always use food analogies: Sometimes I don't want to order a regular cheeseburger, maybe I'll say "Ah! Surprise me with my burger!" That could mean, maybe it'll have swiss and mushrooms, maybe an egg on top, how about BBQ sauce and onion rings? The point is, I know I like a variety of burgers and those are still within the realm of a burger, but also it's different enough to spice things up. Rian brought me calamari. Calamari...in a pancake! Yes it's unique, but it's not following the established guidelines I set up with saying my order. I said I like burgers. Does that make sense? Subsequently, like many others that encountered my same issues with The Last Jedi, many SW fans get what I consider unfairly labeled as impossible to please. I'm not at all. I adored Rogue One and the Mandalorian, even mostly enjoyed Solo. Mostly. I simply recognize what I deem trash-level inconsistent and nonsensical writing riddled with cringe humor when I see it...whether it's uniquely done or not. Unique doesn't inherently mean tasteful or quality. Someone once cooked Gordon Ramsay a rotisserie chicken inside a whole pumpkin. Sure it's original, he's certainly never going to forget it, but is it good? Someone like Rian may think so, pretty sure most would not.

There's a very fine line between so safe that it's no longer interesting and investing and just becomes derivative or there's so different it doesn't even really belong in and perhaps even broke the sandbox. Abrams is one, Rian is the other.

The irony now is, though I do still like TFA best of the ST, since really my liking for it was banking off of what was to come later in the sequels and considering how much I disliked where that went, I actually came to not care NEARLY as much for it now as well. It was tainted for me.

Now the thread has turned into another place to ***** and moan about the ST. As opposed to discussing the subject of Boyega's anger. And you have me doing it too.
 
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So basically, if anyone disagrees with even one little thing you say...you just dismiss it as moaning then? Do you have Tourettes or something akin, because it's kind of a broken record. I'm not particularly seeing much of anything of deep substance of content you're adding to posts around here, I mostly just see you moaning about what you consider moaning. You don't have to agree with everyone's takes or in this case, most peoples around here. You do have to respect that we have a right to say it.

But lastly, I just want to get one thing straight: So you think that too many people critique films...in the section...of a SW forum...specifically dedicated for decades...to debating, analyzing, discussing, and critiquing SW films, eh? And your plan...is to try to snub and shush their so-called "moaning" by...moaning?

...Good luck. :ROFLMAO:

Anyone else hearing the coming horn of Helm Banhammerhand sounding in the deep? :ROFLMAO:
 
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So basically, if anyone disagrees with even one little thing you say...you just dismiss it as moaning then? Do you have Tourettes or something akin, because it's kind of a broken record. I'm not particularly seeing much of anything of deep substance of content you're adding to posts around here, I mostly just see you moaning about what you consider moaning. You don't have to agree with everyone's takes or in this case, most peoples around here. You do have to respect that we have a right to say it.

But lastly, I just want to get one thing straight: So you think that too many people critique films...in the section...of a SW forum...specifically dedicated for decades...to debating, analyzing, discussing, and critiquing SW films, eh? And your plan...is to try to snub and shush their so-called "moaning" by...moaning?

...Good luck. :ROFLMAO:

Anyone else hearing the coming horn of Helm Banhammerhand sounding in the deep? :ROFLMAO:

Actually we agree on quite a lot about what we have discussed . I was just pointing out, correctly that the discussion had moved away from the topic of Boyega and what he says, and onto the same old whinging and complaining about the ST that that has been done in other threads. And that I'm guilty of it too.

I'm not the broken record here for complaining about the moaning. The broken record is the same old ding dong about the ST over and over in threads that about other topics.

Never said there anything about the "right" to voice opinion. I just think a little variety is good.

It does explain why there is so little life in the film and TV section. There is very little imagination being put to use.
 
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Actually we agree on quite a lot about what we have discussed . I was just pointing out, correctly that the discussion had moved away from the topic of Boyega and what he says, and onto the same old whinging and complaining about the ST that that has been done in other threads. And that I'm guilty of it too.

I'm not the broken record here for complaining about the moaning. The broken record is the same old ding dong about the ST over and over in threads that about other topics.

Never said there anything about the "right" to voice opinion. I just think a little variety is good.

It does explain why there is so little life in the film and TV section. There is very little imagination being put to use.

But dude, all due respect, but I'm not understanding how discussing issues with the script is...not...relevant to what Boyega said. He's addressing...issues...with the scripts and whole production from his perspective. We're just doing the same, along with addressing if or why or why not we don't agree or do agree with Boyega on some things or other things. It's entirely on topic.

See the thing is, when you really look at it, you almost obsessively mention in every post people moaning anymore (which...that's imaginative posting?) but this entire thread you created is about John Boyega "moaning." I mean you're saying your "moaning" about "moaning" isn't broken record, but didn't you literally say near verbatim "There is very little imagination being put to use" once or twice already in another forum?

My point is just this: I'm not trying to be antagonistic at all, but I am addressing what I believe has devolved into a sort of issue. When folks can't come to the film section and post anymore without being told in essence what is just "Stop complaining!" for their critique...doesn't that completely defeat the purpose of a film forum? It's just a respect thing man and I just feel that's very condescending to others. Just my two cents.

And as for really why there's so little life in the Film and TV section is because there isn't much...new content...to discuss;
There isn't even a Mando Season 2 trailer yet. This section tends to attract more analytical or artistic types on average, big readers and writers and film-school types; but not everyone enjoys that on a regular basis or at-all. Honestly, I think most just see a film, decide if they like or hate it, and move on. They don't really consume it in the same vein. But make no mistake, it's a fairly bumping section when it's more topical like a new film trailer hitting or an approaching movie release date. Not to mention that this is not this websites specific focus. You go to, say, TheForce.Net, you'll see people discussing the films (pros and cons) all year 'round. This place is first and foremost a collecting forum, not some auteur film forum or IMDB/Rotten Tomatoes. This section will always be more for a niche audience, just like (example) the Vintage Kenner collection sections will always have a bit more limited reach. There's plenty of imagination in these forums, there's just not much fresh to discuss at moment.
 
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But dude, all due respect, but I'm not understanding how discussing issues with the script is...not...relevant to what Boyega said. He's addressing...issues...with the scripts and whole production from his perspective. We're just doing the same, along with addressing if or why or why not we don't agree or do agree with Boyega on some things or other things. It's entirely on topic.

See the thing is, when you really look at it, you almost obsessively mention in every post people moaning anymore (which...that's imaginative posting?) but this entire thread you created is about John Boyega "moaning." I mean you're saying your "moaning" about "moaning" isn't broken record, but didn't you literally say near verbatim "There is very little imagination being put to use" once or twice already in another forum?

My point is just this: I'm not trying to be antagonistic at all, but I am addressing what I believe has devolved into a sort of issue. When folks can't come to the film section and post anymore without being told in essence what is just "Stop complaining!" for their critique...doesn't that completely defeat the purpose of a film forum? It's just a respect thing man and I just feel that's very condescending to others. Just my two cents.

And as for really why there's so little life in the Film and TV section is because there isn't much...new content...to discuss;
There isn't even a Mando Season 2 trailer yet. This section tends to attracted more analytical or artistic types on average, big readers and writers and film-school types; but not everyone enjoys that on a regular basis or at-all. Honestly, I think most just see a film, decide if they like or hate it, and move on. They don't really consume it in the same vein. But make no mistake, it's a fairly bumping section when it's more topical like a new film trailer hitting or an approaching movie release date. Not to mention that this is not this websites specific focus. You go to, say, TheForce.Net, you'll see people discussing the films (pros and cons) all year 'round. This place is first and foremost a collecting forum, not some auteur film forum or IMDB/Rotten Tomatoes. This section will always be more for a niche audience, just like (example) the Vintage Kenner collection sections will always have a bit more limited reach. There's plenty of imagination in these forums, there's just not much fresh to discuss at moment.

Steady on with the melodramatic exaggeration.

I don't mention in every post about people moaning. I have used a post to point out about people moaning about the ST when it happens in unrelated threads.

Yes, of course the Sequel script, etc. is relevant but it the thread was starting veer away from Boyega and his issues. Of which, as I pointed out, I'm also guilty.

The same same complaints and moaning across multiple threads - even ones not related directly or indirectly to the ST - is defeating the purpose of the forum.

There is no condescension coming from me (and to say that after your previous post? Ironic.). Anyone getting upset by my posts must be highly sensitive.

And did I say to stop your discussion. Did I say "get back on topic"? Did I go crying to a moderator?


Now the thread has turned into another place to ***** and moan about the ST. As opposed to discussing the subject of Boyega's anger. And you have me doing it too.

No I did not. I simply stated a fact - that the thread was going off topic and that I was equally responsible.
 
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I'm not the broken record here for complaining about the moaning.

Yes. You are.

You're complaining that people aren't discussing things in the fashion that you, personally, want them to....across several threads.

Chill out and let the discussion flow. There's no harm in it.
 
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Yes. You are.

You're complaining that people aren't discussing things in the fashion that you, personally, want them to....across several threads.

Chill out and let the discussion flow. There's no harm in it.

no I’m not and that is an unhealthy dose of of irony coming from for someone who *****es and moans about everything in the franchise. ACEOSS MSNY, many threads.

I pointed out that the discussion was veering off topic into yet a another thread about the ST and away from Boyega’s grievances. Which it is.
I also said I was partially responsible myself.

Did I say it to stop? Did I make any demands? Did I go crying to to the mods?

No I did none of this. I stated a simple fact

You two need to put the pearls back in the jewellery box and get over yourself
 
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^
You need to stop this crap. Because you will end up getting banned.

Is it your place to be making such a threat? You are not a moderator and a mod issues warnings, not threats. I think you need to learn your place.

Banned for what? For saying something is off topic and calling you a moaner?

I'm simply responding to the "crap" about my "crap". I'm not the one dragging it up to have the "final word".
 
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What we (as well as others in other threads) are saying that you don't seem to want to understand is folks come here to read and write posts on SW, not read constant posts from someone who complains about the content of those posts. Whether they be positive or negative in their opinion, it's still ABOUT SW. Yours have been, one too many times, about fellow posters (AKA people) and resort to rather dismissive, rude, venomously aggressive, and condescending words. If you don't agree with someone's opinion, that's fine, feel free to politely debate and discuss. Don't insult them. If you simply outright don't like someone's post, that's fine too, ignore it. Don't ramble on and on as if you're some editorial authority at SW Insider who can mandate what opinions can and cannot be printed.

CelllBlock isn't threatening you. He's not a mod, he can't warn or ban you. He's simply addressing the overt elephant in the room that everyone has seen: your behavior will inevitably attract them and it won't bode well for your end. He's actually giving you a pointer.

In the span of simply just two threads, I've counted (much to my surprise as the count kept rising...I couldn't help but start laughing at the absurdity of how often you say it) a whopping 16 posts in which you mention moaning or other synonyms for, most of those posts exclusively just commenting on how much you dislike that said "moaning" of sorts and not really contributing any substance to the topic at hand. For someone so militantly defensive of 100% never, ever, ever even vaguely diverging from the main threads topic at hand, it's kind of ironic you do that more than any of your accused. Heck, if you count the main theme of this thread, it in and of itself is you complaining about Boyega critiquing. If including that, that's 17 now! But you're going to sincerely sit here, bold faced lie, and say you're not a broken record?

I only address this one last time because our point stands: keep it up, it will get attention. Now I'm going to go talk about SW, whether you like what I have to say on aspects of it...or not. As we all rightfully can.
 
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