Black Widow Movie

[keknivek]

Someone can make an official Black Widow Movie thread if they like, but I wanted to discuss how this movie can be successful.

I'm going to put a couple options up there and if you like one or would like to add to that or you would like to give your own suggestion, that's cool.

My thoughts:

1) Black Widow is a prequel that gives us a look at an origin for Natasha Rominoff. I gotta say I'm not very interested in this and I'll tell you why. Atomic Blonde, Red Sparrow, La Femme Nikita, Salt, Aeon Flux, Peppermint, Lara Croft?, Lucy?, Mr. and Mrs. Smith? ...... I mean what will they do to show who she is and what she became that hasn't already been done?

2) Black Widow is set in the midst of the 5 years during the "Snappening". This actually sounds interesting. We could see some of the chaos that took place and give us some scope for what bringing the other half of the human race back means.

3) Black Widow is a set in an alternate timeline where the end of the movie gives us the hope that she could return to the main timeline. I like this option because it doesn't go backwards. I don't have an answer for how she escapes the Soul Stone, but maybe Cap taking back the stone releases her. Maybe it also releases Red Skull and we get him as the bad guy? Any scenario where we aren't getting a 'prequel' is what I would choose.

Whatever they end up doing, I hope they introduce something new. I think introducing something like Latveria would be epically exciting for comic fans. Having her leading a new team in an alternate timeline would be really cool as well. We could see Natasha with Spider-Woman, She Hulk, and Osborne as Iron Man, or even Professor X as a young man. The possibilities of the Multiverse are immense!

Thoughts?

 

[Masterfett]

While it is still too early to say, I do feel that this is one Marvel Movie I can live without. Personally I've never been 100% fan of the casting of ScarJo. Don't get me wrong, she did alright. Secondly, I've never been a huge fan of the Character. So from this perspective I have no incentive to go see it, especially if it's the origin story you speak of. It is too reminiscent of Red Sparrow etc. We've essentially already seen her story several times.

Maybe, set just before she joined Shield. The mission where Hawkeye recruits her, though most of us have seen that as well. The alternate reality may have promise. IDK. just doesn't interest me much.
I like your idea of including Spider-Woman, I'd probably watch to see her on screen. Or some of the other less iconic characters. I definitely would like to see some more involved than just her or Clint.

Do something more like a Spy Thriller on par with James Bond.

 

[GNT]

Not really a massive Black Widow fan myself so it wouldn't be one i'm dying to see if made, it would be nice for her to have her own film after playing the character in all the MCU films. I'm sure they'd figure out a way to bring her back into the mix. Maybe a Disney+ channel movie or something?

 

[keknivek]

Looks like you guys feel pretty much exactly like I do.

They have to find a new angle. I think it could be worthwhile if it introduces some new recurring characters or gives us a glimpse of something on the horizon. A prequel origin movie just sounds bad.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

I enjoy the character, but she's a grounded and predominately subsidiary character. I don't fall for the girl power spiels, she's not a major character...she's simply female. That doesn't mean important. That doesn't make her integral. I never really got the "Give her a solo movie" petitions and rants. Black Widow is a fun character, but count me also in the camp of "What do you even do with a solo Black Widow film?" What truly special and unique can you do? We're just coming off of an intergalactic genocide...and we're going to tell Atomic Blonde? It just doesn't seem that interesting in the scope of things. Maybe it could be her adventure with Hawkeye in Budapest? I def. think there has to be more players than JUST her. Surely Fury, likely Hawkeye, but I mean...does she even really have an archenemy? I think I'd go with Taskmaster! Then I might be sold and excited. I'm sure I'll see it. I'm sure it will even be quality, Marvel always seems to make (usually) quality, but it's not one I'm going to be jumping through hoops to see opening day at THIS point. Not even opening week. I am hoping that will change.

 

[keknivek]

I enjoy the character, but she's a grounded and predominately subsidiary character. I don't fall for the girl power spiels, she's not a major character...she's simply female. That doesn't mean important. That doesn't make her integral. I never really got the "Give her a solo movie" petitions and rants. Black Widow is a fun character, but count me also in the camp of "What do you even do with a solo Black Widow film?" What truly special and unique can you do? We're just coming off of an intergalactic genocide...and we're going to tell Atomic Blonde? It just doesn't seem that interesting in the scope of things. Maybe it could be her adventure with Hawkeye in Budapest? I def. think there has to be more players than JUST her. Surely Fury, likely Hawkeye, but I mean...does she even really have an archenemy? I think I'd go with Taskmaster! Then I might be sold and excited. I'm sure I'll see it. I'm sure it will even be quality, Marvel always seems to make (usually) quality, but it's not one I'm going to be jumping through hoops to see opening day at THIS point. Not even opening week. I am hoping that will change.

Taskmaster would be introducing a new character that would make things interesting for sure. New characters will be key for Black Widow. It can't just be Widow and Hawkeye. Maybe they show us a team within SHIELD that can have some impact in the future? If you follow SHIELD, you know that Wendell Vaughn (Quasar) was a SHIELD agent. John Walker (US Agent) was a SHIELD agent. Jessica Drew (Spider-Woman), Yelena Belova (second Black Widow), Marvin Flumm (Mentallo), Bobbi Morse (Mockingbird), and even Nick Fury Jr - Marcus Johnson (to get a younger Fury involved) were all a part of SHIELD at some point. ** please bring back Mockingbird**

Throw in Tony Masters (Taskmaster) or any number of other characters that could fit here with a retcon to their backstory and you got a movie in there somewhere. I'm thinking introduce some of Zemo's Masters of Evil as SHIELD agents... Erik Josten (Goliath), Abner Jenkins (Beetle/Mach-I), Paul Ebersol (Fixer), Melissa Gold (Screaming Mimi) or even introduce some random characters like Andreas Von Strucker (Swordsman), Kyle Richmond (Nighthawk), Eric Williams (Grim Reaper), or a Skrull imposter.

 

[VideoViper]

As long as they include her sing this song I'm fine with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpdb3hi_38

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Taskmaster would be introducing a new character that would make things interesting for sure. New characters will be key for Black Widow. It can't just be Widow and Hawkeye. Maybe they show us a team within SHIELD that can have some impact in the future? If you follow SHIELD, you know that Wendell Vaughn (Quasar) was a SHIELD agent. John Walker (US Agent) was a SHIELD agent. Jessica Drew (Spider-Woman), Yelena Belova (second Black Widow), Marvin Flumm (Mentallo), Bobbi Morse (Mockingbird), and even Nick Fury Jr - Marcus Johnson (to get a younger Fury involved) were all a part of SHIELD at some point. ** please bring back Mockingbird**

Throw in Tony Masters (Taskmaster) or any number of other characters that could fit here with a retcon to their backstory and you got a movie in there somewhere. I'm thinking introduce some of Zemo's Masters of Evil as SHIELD agents... Erik Josten (Goliath), Abner Jenkins (Beetle/Mach-I), Paul Ebersol (Fixer), Melissa Gold (Screaming Mimi) or even introduce some random characters like Andreas Von Strucker (Swordsman), Kyle Richmond (Nighthawk), Eric Williams (Grim Reaper), or a Skrull imposter.

Here's an idea: her former peers at that apparent school shown in flashback during Age of Ultron...perhaps some of them could be a version of Silver Sable and Yelena Belova. Those two make a LOT of sense. Then like I said, you could totally have Taskmaster be perhaps the leader of the school, a nod to how he ran training classes for supervillain thugs in the comics. I mean Taskmaster's intro is with him LITERALLY being the secret leader of an academy that produces supervillains and henchmen. He's PERFECT for this role! Once Hawkeye comes along and Natasha defects to S.H.I.E.L.D...they'd be AFTER her. Perhaps have Sable, by the end, have a turn of heart and be a potential lead-in for a Spider-Man sequel. Also perhaps show Swordsman as a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent sort of master to Hawkeye, someone he studied under like in the comics. And he is either 1. Killed by Taskmaster (hence how he gets his sword and bow and arrow - from a defeated swordsman and hawkeye) or 2. he's a mole in S.H.I.E.L.D. for Taskmaster eluding to Swordsman becoming a villain in the comics. A spy movie certainly needs some betrayal and espionage. And where does all this come to a conclusion? Budapest!

 

[Masterfett]

I never really got the "Give her a solo movie" petitions and rants. Black Widow is a fun character, but count me also in the camp of "What do you even do with a solo Black Widow film?"

I never got that either. Do those people even know why they were petitioning, or were they simply after more ScarJo on screen? Because I bet you that 90% of them don't know who Black Widow really is, or was before Shield. Is this something Disney would even explore? Seems more like a Fox Rated R outing IMO. I seriously doubt they would be into doing anything that risque.

One problem for me is that she's just another boring powerless Human. I can see this in Bourne, MI, and just about any Spec-Ops movie. I watch Marvel and DC Superhero Movies for exactly that< Superheroes.
i waited many many years to finally see Superheroes like the X-Men and Avengers take names on the big screen. And I don't think i can go back now.

 

[keknivek]

I never got that either. Do those people even know why they were petitioning, or were they simply after more ScarJo on screen? Because I bet you that 90% of them don't know who Black Widow really is, or was before Shield. Is this something Disney would even explore? Seems more like a Fox Rated R outing IMO. I seriously doubt they would be into doing anything that risque.

One problem for me is that she's just another boring powerless Human. I can see this in Bourne, MI, and just about any Spec-Ops movie. I watch Marvel and DC Superhero Movies for exactly that< Superheroes.
i waited many many years to finally see Superheroes like the X-Men and Avengers take names on the big screen. And I don't think i can go back now.

This is why I figure any other superhuman involved in this would make the movie much more interesting. I say have the Black Widow movie introduce a new big bad. Dr. Doom would be number one for me. Just introduce... they don't even have to do much with the character.

I could see Taskmaster as mentioned above as a good counter to her, but I want to see a Thanos-sized threat.

 

[Masterfett]

If she had a Superhuman co-star maybe, but if it's essentially like Winter Soldier. Then Taskmaster should be fine. Having regular human win against a powered being seems like too much. I also feel Doom should be saved for F4. I wouldn't be opposed to a Cameo prior to his transformation, but not the main Villain. I'm not one who thinks every movie needs a planet ending scenario.

Black Widow feels more like a localized threat, with covert missions and subterfuge etc.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

If she had a Superhuman co-star maybe, but if it's essentially like Winter Soldier. Then Taskmaster should be fine. Having regular human win against a powered being seems like too much. I also feel Doom should be saved for F4. I wouldn't be opposed to a Cameo prior to his transformation, but not the main Villain. I'm not one who thinks every movie needs a planet ending scenario.

Black Widow feels more like a localized threat, with covert missions and subterfuge etc.

I def. agree, I don't think it needs to be Thanos level threats from now on either. In fact, in some ways, I think the wiser move would to become MORE personalized and less mass global threat. I myself would set up Doom as the next "Thanos," I.E: the string-puller. I don't think I'd introduce him in even the second Fantastic Four, I think he requires a build-up. Perhaps in some films I would have the villain of that specific picture being funded by, say, Latverian dignitaries and such. That, of course, being your first hint. I'd have Doom basically playing the mastermind behind the curtain, just waiting and observing and studying...using pawns like more minor supervillains to gain knowledge and information on the heroes of the MCU. I think I'd use Annihilus as the first Fantastic Four film villain, released when Reed opens the Negative Zone. I think I'd also explain the origin of the Fantastic Four as having taken place in the space race of the 60's...and they were lost on their mission. Basically stuck in a Negative Zone void. To them it wasn't long at all, but to the world it was decades. But this transformed them, but Annihilus would also be release. Perhaps also only have some throw-away dialogue referencing a fellow peer student Reed had in college, just subtle referencing Victor.

I've ALSO considered the use of Kang the Conqueror. Now that time travel has been established in the MCU, Kang is another shoo-in character. That's basically his entire shtick. I'd write him as a sort of acolyte tasked with controlling the welfare of space-time. Now that the Avengers tampered with the continuum, his timeline is slowly being destroyed or even erased. In order to save his love, like in the comics, he takes it as a personal mission to punish the Avengers and return his world to the rightful place in time. This is, in ways, the story they told with Kang in the Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes cartoon...in some ways, just I adapted it to the MCU lore. But the REAL mind-F**K is that, in some versions, Kang IS future Doctor Doom or at least a relative. You can REALLY do a lot with this, tie it to contemporary Victor Von Doom, and you have a totally insane but I think fascinating story that could play out.

But yeah, if I had a top three ways to go with this, the three immediate villians that make most sense to me as of right now are Taskmaster, Doom, and Kang.

Also I've seen HEAVY rumors that, my God, they really WILL be FINALLY doing the REAL Mandarin...and he'll be (dun dun duuuuun) Shang-Chi's father in his solo movie.

Another SUPER HEAVY rumor is that at the end of Far From Home, yup, it's Norman Osborne who bought Avengers Tower and it'll obviously be becoming Oscorp. But no idea if that will actually be true.

 

[keknivek]

I def. agree, I don't think it needs to be Thanos level threats from now on either. In fact, in some ways, I think the wiser move would to become MORE personalized and less mass global threat. I myself would set up Doom as the next "Thanos," I.E: the string-puller. I don't think I'd introduce him in even the second Fantastic Four, I think he requires a build-up. Perhaps in some films I would have the villain of that specific picture being funded by, say, Latverian dignitaries and such. That, of course, being your first hint. I'd have Doom basically playing the mastermind behind the curtain, just waiting and observing and studying...using pawns like more minor supervillains to gain knowledge and information on the heroes of the MCU. I think I'd use Annihilus as the first Fantastic Four film villain, released when Reed opens the Negative Zone. I think I'd also explain the origin of the Fantastic Four as having taken place in the space race of the 60's...and they were lost on their mission. Basically stuck in a Negative Zone void. To them it wasn't long at all, but to the world it was decades. But this transformed them, but Annihilus would also be release. Perhaps also only have some throw-away dialogue referencing a fellow peer student Reed had in college, just subtle referencing Victor.

I've ALSO considered the use of Kang the Conqueror. Now that time travel has been established in the MCU, Kang is another shoo-in character. That's basically his entire shtick. I'd write him as a sort of acolyte tasked with controlling the welfare of space-time. Now that the Avengers tampered with the continuum, his timeline is slowly being destroyed or even erased. In order to save his love, like in the comics, he takes it as a personal mission to punish the Avengers and return his world to the rightful place in time. This is, in ways, the story they told with Kang in the Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes cartoon...in some ways, just I adapted it to the MCU lore. But the REAL mind-F**K is that, in some versions, Kang IS future Doctor Doom or at least a relative. You can REALLY do a lot with this, tie it to contemporary Victor Von Doom, and you have a totally insane but I think fascinating story that could play out.

But yeah, if I had a top three ways to go with this, the three immediate villians that make most sense to me as of right now are Taskmaster, Doom, and Kang.

Also I've seen HEAVY rumors that, my God, they really WILL be FINALLY doing the REAL Mandarin...and he'll be (dun dun duuuuun) Shang-Chi's father in his solo movie.

Another SUPER HEAVY rumor is that at the end of Far From Home, yup, it's Norman Osborne who bought Avengers Tower and it'll obviously be becoming Oscorp. But no idea if that will actually be true.

I'm thinking Oscorp or Baxter Building...

I honestly don't want the MCU to get too enamored with Time Travel as the plot device. I guess I can handle different dimensions because we then don't have to confront the 'what ifs and well, that now changes this' sort of banter.

I'm just totally down for more characters coming into the universe. I'm itching for more Skrull action and certainly more bit players like Ghost, Valkyrie, Korg, etc.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Yeah I was thinking Avengers tower will become Oscorp or the film version of the Baxter Building too. It's now making rounds in the media that it's basically all but confirmed that Norman is in Far From Home. Now here is MY question about him though. Is he going to go full on Green Goblin or will this version just be a corrupt businessman/iron patriot? I could see them skipping Goblin, but that would totally disappoint me.

 

[keknivek]

Yeah I was thinking Avengers tower will become Oscorp or the film version of the Baxter Building too. It's now making rounds in the media that it's basically all but confirmed that Norman is in Far From Home. Now here is MY question about him though. Is he going to go full on Green Goblin or will this version just be a corrupt businessman/iron patriot? I could see them skipping Goblin, but that would totally disappoint me.

It would be hard to have Osborne and not have Green Goblin. I could see them doing something like a Sinister Six with the Goblin and perhaps not even address that Osborne and the Green Goblin are the same. Marvel fans would know, but could be made to wait to see it play out over several movies.

I'd go with Goblin and Mysterio as the leaders and include some we've seen like Scorpion and Vulture with maybe a gender switched Doc Oc or Electro?then throw in Sandman... I think that would be cool. (You know they'll have to get a female in there somewhere)

I think everyone wants a Sinister Six... Black Widow will need some work to be interesting.

 

[Masterfett]

Yeah, now that they've introduced time travel. They could just have Kang go back to right after Avenges and alter events, or just before the Snap. Therefore negating several deaths.
Not that they should, but the option is there if need be should someone want to come back into the fold. Though things like this could get very complicated for the average moviegoer.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

It's funny to think how times have changed. I remember a time when people went into full on PANIC mode if there were more than one (major face-type) villain in Spider-Man movies. Now people want six or potentially even more. Hah! But I think we've reached a time when the writing and source material is taken so much more seriously and far less simply JUST to create mass-produced commercial products (I.E: Batman and Robin and others) that it can be pulled off well. If they can do a massive superhero team like the Avengers and have each be both integral to the team but also all have an individual moment to shine, why not for a villain team too? I mean, really it's been done before anyway in the old X-Men films, but I think the MCU would do it much better. Though I always thought Magneto, Mystique, and Pyro were pretty well done in a team environment, Toad and Sabertooth...not so much.

I don't think it will be 100% THE comic Sinister Six either though. Films always change it up a bit. I can absolutely see Vulture and Scorpion. Though Scorpion hasn't been done yet, he's been set up and it's basic protocol that every movie needs to intro at least one new villain. He'd fit that role. Mysterio will now be in play too. That's another thing more modern comic films do, they tend to more often NOT kill the villain...or rather at least not initially. If my theory is right and he's in Far From Home, could be Chameleon. Everyone seems to be pointing to Osborne coming...but he's more a curiosity to me. While he's never been, from my knowledge, much of a team player per se (Dark Avengers being the exception)...I could kind of see them doing something different with him. What I mean is more so Norman funds the Sinister Six, but doesn't actually JOIN it. But the Hobgoblin HAS been on one iteration of the Six and they're fairly (not entirely) similar characters. Maybe Shocker? Chameleon, Shocker, Scorpion, and even Rhino were the 90's animated series Sinister Six alongside more classic Ock and Mysterio. But the one I really want is Otto. I wouldn't do the gender swap with him. Too iconic and vital to the comic Sinister Six, he is the founder after all. But great counter-argument is (and I can't deny) that there IS a female Ock in the comics. I think he might be skipped though as his story in the new Spider-Man video game was pretty much the stand-out highlights of the game. I think, because I agree a female will be needed, maybe skip Shocker and do Black Cat (who becomes a hero late in the game or perhaps was always a mole in the Sinister Six to begin with) or something? You know, Spider-Man really is severely lacking in the female foes category. Even Black Cat is really, usually, more so an ally. There's really no particularly successful or stand-out female enemies in his rogues, not that there aren't any, but they're all very obscure. Like Shriek, White Rabbit, Scorpia!? Just not really big enough for a flick. As for Kraven, a classic member, well...I think he's just immensely difficult to do seriously. He's basically just a dude who's really good at hunting. Sure he takes potions to enhance his strength, but I don't think he'd make an especially interesting visual film villain. How do you even explain his shtick without it coming off corny? The could go with the Ultimate Kraven idea, where he was like a reality TV star. He's just, IMO, hard to pull off. Then lastly that would leave Sandman and Electro. With Electro, I think he was so poorly done in his own film that they may just want to pull an all-out Green Lantern and not use the character for a long time. For Sandman, I personally don't think so. If that is the equivalent of him in Far From Home (alongside Moltenman and Hydroman) then I've still convinced it's Mysterio tech/hologram and not actually a sentient entity.

 

[keknivek]

I think the "Sonyverse" Spider stuff will likely interfere with what we see in the MCU unfortunately. I wonder what kind of ability the MCU has to do Sinister Six since Sony was originally going to develop this? I understand they are actually filming a Morbius movie and had Black Cat/Silver Sable, Kraven, and even Silk in some level of development.

I'm thinking the MCU has been allowed to use Vulture, Shocker, Scorpion (sort of), Mysterio, and (we think) Chameleon... so ... I don't know if that's enough of a crew to do a Sinister Six?

Kraven, Electro, Doc Ock, and Sandman have been in most iterations of this team. I'd axe Kraven and skip Electro also.

My team would introduce Doc Ock as the leader with Mysterio and Vulture as the Lieutenants. Shocker and Scorpion would be the muscle and throw in a female villain.... not sure who unless we gender swap Doc Ock and use Sandman? Spider-man really doesn't have any good female villains.

 

[Neal]

There are a lot of rumors out there that center around Norman Osborne. We may be seeing him soon.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Well, apparently I saw a glimpse into the future. Because my idea for the Black Widow movie seems to be EXACTLY what is happening. Taskmaster seems to be the villain due to a leak. Yelena Belova pretty much confirmed. And where is it shooting? Budapest.

 

[Cobalt60]

yeah but the movie takes place post-civil-war. so the budapest scenes are most likely flashbacks.
I think I would rather see a true origin story. leading into a trilogy or something.

they seem to have pigeonholed themselves into a finite timeframe locked between Civil War and Infinity War.
there's not a lot of wriggle-room, to expand the story beyond this single film. this might be a one-off.

 

[keknivek]

Taskmaster, Yelena Belova, Red Guardian... I like what I'm seeing in terms of characters. I'm hoping we see a trailer in front of Episode IX... just a guess, but I really want to see what they're doing with this.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

I have been pleasantly concerted from my original thoughts, especially when my story ideas predictions seem to be beat for beat playing out. But I am making another prediction: Taskmaster will be played up to be the Red Guardian for the vast majority of the movie, but the reveal will be...it's going to be Rachel Weisz's character.

 

[Masterfett]

I'm kind of curious how they would fit it in post Civil War, wasn't Natasha kind of busy during this time? Wouldn't it be more fitting to tell her story prior to her Shield days, to open up the playing field? Post CW would seem limiting in a way.

Rachel being Taskmaster? IDK But I'm sure there'll be a twist or two. There also at a point t where they need to inject new characters to fill the Avengers roster, as there seems to be 4 big openings. And Nova is nowhere to be seen.

 

[keknivek]

Gender swapping Taskmaster might not go over well. He's a pretty popular character. I don't personally care that much, but the MCU has done pretty well staying close to the comics. Clearly 'The Eternals' will be the biggest exception but few know those characters anyway. Still confused as to why they are necessary. (please don't say diversity even if it's true)

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Not saying I LIKE gender swapping Taskmaster, but call it a gut instinct. Marvel seems to be pushing diversity, but not just with Eternals. I agree, we don't NEED that film. Like...at ALL! It's the one that least intrigues me. Black Widow has come to interest me more, but I could def. see them doing that with Taskmaster for a sort of girl power vs. girl power moment, surprise, you thought it was a man the whole time. But I mean, if written well...I could see it work. But I am getting a very Winter Soldier vibe here.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

Just saw some possible leak...seems reasonable enough...now it does deal more Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but it does also tie into Black Widow. Apparently the plot of Falcon and Winter Soldier may revolve around how Sam didn't sign the accords, so Thunderbolt Ross comes in and is like...NOPE! Can't be Captain America. So the government hires none other than...U.S. Agent to be the new Cap fill-in. This is all making a lot of sense to me. So apparently Falcons teams up with Bucky to do some under the radar crime fighting and eventually meet up with U.S. Agent. But APPARENTLY...the major villain ploy is that Zemo, not costumed, is apparently implanting microchips or some sort of virus or something and he's controlling the Agent. The rumor also states that both Abomination (still played by Tim Roth...also potential Masters of Evil beginnings), Black Widow 2 (Yelena Belova), and even OLD Steve will show up to mentor a times and I am going to guess under a codename: Nomad. But why is this all so important to Black Widow? I think a lot of Winter Soldier and Civil War tone and beats will play out in Widow and I think a lot of what happens in Widow will come into this show. I think we might have a sort of quadrilogy on our hands. I mean, Rogers, Bucky, Sam, Zemo, Taskmaster, Widow, Belova, U.S. Agent, Red Guardian, potential Masters of Evil or even Thunderbolts beginnings, Ross, this is all starting to sound like a Marvel's interconnecting within interconnecting and this is their major government super spy political thriller. They all have rich histories with each other in comics. I'm liking what I'm hearing.

 

[keknivek]

I'm 100% behind Thunderbolts and/or Masters of Evil.

I'd heard a rumor about US Agent and I think your intuition serves you well here. Not sure how much interconnectivity they'll do, but they can certainly share characters. I hope they use all those characters to flesh out their character a bit. Zemo is clearly capable of more than what they did with him in Civil War.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

I'm 100% behind Thunderbolts and/or Masters of Evil.

I'd heard a rumor about US Agent and I think your intuition serves you well here. Not sure how much interconnectivity they'll do, but they can certainly share characters. I hope they use all those characters to flesh out their character a bit. Zemo is clearly capable of more than what they did with him in Civil War.

TOTALLY AGREE, bro! In fact, though I loved what they did do with Zemo in Civil War, it's def. only a half measure of what he's capable of. I was thrilled to see he's returning and even with a costume. He's always been a favorite Avenger villain of mine.

 

[Masterfett]

I was split on MCU Zemo. I've always liked his Comic character, so when I heard about him being in Winter Soldier I was pleased. Then I was a bit at odds with the direction they took, and at how seemingly week they made him. Especially with the trend prior MCU Villains.
But after a few more viewing I eventually warmed up to that version.

Interesting leaks Mysterio, sounds like it could be cool.

 

[MysterioMaximus]

I was split on MCU Zemo. I've always liked his Comic character, so when I heard about him being in Winter Soldier I was pleased. Then I was a bit at odds with the direction they took, and at how seemingly week they made him. Especially with the trend prior MCU Villains.
But after a few more viewing I eventually warmed up to that version.

Interesting leaks Mysterio, sounds like it could be cool.

At first, I was too. He also grew on me. Once I came to really think on it, he's the only Avengers villain who achieved his plan to the fullest. I say only just because, though it did take time travel, technically Thanos still lost in the very end. But when you think about it...DID Zemo lose? The goal he set out to achieve was achieved. And he's just a man! THAT is brilliant.

But to see him returning was my hope. He's basically, IMO, ONE OF Marvel's most tactically brilliant villains. In that way he's a reflection of Cap or even maybe Batman as far as his sort of "chess" playing skills go. I'd love to see him with a legit straight-up rapier sword. I don't think that's going too over the top. You could even explain the reason for why he uses it, it was his fathers...and since he's passed due to the tragic incident in Age of Ultron, he's adopted it as a sort of revenge embodiment of his father. I also liked that his father was MENTIONED as, in comics, this Zemo is actually the SECOND Baron Zemo with his father being the first that battled Cap.

For me, these leaks seem ALMOST too good to be true...like fanboy dream stuff...where comic lore is being SO well adapted it's like a delusion. It's like how I felt about the Mysterio nightmare sequence...during it, I looked at my buddy and mouthed "IS THIS REALLY HAPPENING," which in context of the film...no...it's not...yet it also is, but he KNOWS me so well that he knew what I ACTUALLY meant was "This is SO GOOD IT'S MY HEAVENLY DREAM ON SCREEN!" So maybe they're BS. But the truth is, I think some of it...maybe even a majority of it...could be legit, because after the films and (most) shows Marvel has been doing...WOW do they ACTUALLY CARE about about the comics and fans. I think the final products they put out CLEARLY show that. Basically the ideology of though running and creating for Disney Marvel is LITERALLY the EXACT OPPOSITE of those running and creating for Disney SW.

EDIT: LITERALLY RIGHT AFTER I WROTE THE ABOVE...I saw it. Confirmed: Thunderbolts is happening. And now that lends SO MUCH to this theory, it makes TOO much sense. Also confirmed: Thunderbolt Ross seen on BW set. It's ALL coming together!

 

[keknivek]

You know... if the Black Widow movie is set between Infinity War and EndGame we could see a Thunderbolts team made up of villains like in the comics. Ross decides to go with Plan B after the Snap and they could show it forming in Black Widow.

I doubt they'll try to use the original team of (Zemo, Beetle, Fixer, Atlas, Songbird, and Meteorite) BUT.... they could use Zemo, Abimination, Samuel Stearns' Leader? and why not someone like US Agent on that team? He was a villain that became more heroic. I see this as the link between Black Widow, Falcon and Winter Soldier, and possibly even the Hawkeye TV series. You have this Thunderbolts team setup in Black Widow. She

It wouldn't be a stretch to have Ross put together another team. I'd love to see Zemo adopt the Citizen Z moniker.
Citizen V > give him an Iron Man-esque suit
US Agent > Captain America
Abomination > Hulk
Yelena Belova > Widow
Goliath would be a fun character to introduce using Pym Particles > Ant Man
Taskmaster > Everyone else... ha!

I'm sure that's not the roster, but they have plenty to choose from. Could use Ghost? Juggernaut? Red Hulk??? Punisher? could be awesome.

 

[Masterfett]

Goliath was already introduced though, or are you thinking recast?

 

[keknivek]

Goliath was already introduced though, or are you thinking recast?

Bill Foster Goliath was shown. I should have said Atlas again. I used his (Eric Jostens) Thunderbolts name Atlas earlier in that post. He was one of the original Thunderbolts and Masters of Evil... He went by Goliath for a time. He's an interesting dude because beyond Zemo he also worked with Red Skull, Mandarin, and was both a villain and a hero in different scenarios.