BEWARE: SCAMMED OUT OF $10K USD by ADOLFO HUMBERTO MARTINEZ ORTIZ "Merlin72"

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Well if I were accused of scamming $10,000 and my reputation was on the line, I'd be doing everything in my power to straighten it out. I know a lot of people have done deals with Adolpho and he's a respected collector and all that. But good sellers keep good communication and don't let things like this happen. The paperwork is pretty damning. Honestly at this point I'd probably contact law enforcement if I were you. It doesn't seem like it's going to get resolved here.


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If I sent someone 10K and they didn't hear anything from them for 2 days or they said they didn't get it I would be concerned about a mistake and have tried to cancel it too. I think this is what happened here
Ok, hang on a moment here. If I am understanding this correctly, are you confirming waffenmeister's assertion the transfer was canceled on Feb 13? I haven't gotten that impression from anyone else, including Scott. If this is true, then where is the issue? A canceled payment means he isn't out anything, right?

What a mess....

Ian
 
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Scott,
Do you have your money? If so I would just wash the deal and move on. It seems like the ball was dropped a few times. So if nothing was lost expect for feelings then you guys should be good.
 
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Scott,
Do you have your money? If so I would just wash the deal and move on. It seems like the ball was dropped a few times. So if nothing was lost expect for feelings then you guys should be good.
The title of the thread is "scammed out of $10k..." So I think it's safe to say Scott does not have the money.
 
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Scott, the third page you have scanned is talking about some $20 fee needing to be deposited, is it possible that until this fee is paid the funds are in limbo? I know nothing of bank wire transfers, but maybe there is some small thing holding up the funds somehow? I wonder if Adolfo can also confirm the account details are correct? Surely if the account number was wrong the name would have been wrong also sending red flags?

The third page middle section says Inquiry type: 810 outgoing wire payment cancelation

Was the wire transfer cancelled in some way? That is dated 02-13-15. Maybe a cancellation was done for some reason? Can someone who understands bank transfers read over these pages and translate for us regular folk?
I was referring to the 810 outgoing wire payment cancellation question. I think maybe this was a attempt to retrieve monies after 2 days without a confirmation and or the denial of receipt.
 
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When situations like this happen, it's very easy to takes sides without really meaning to appear that way. We base it on experiences we've had with the parties at the center of the issue.

I am hoping I can demonstrate enough impartiality in my questions to get to the essence, because I'm still unclear what the issue is, as per Scott's original post.

I asked this once already, but I think it bears repeating if I can get a response directly from Scott.

From your original post, you mention making a $10K payment via wire transfer.

In Adolfo's post, he mentions the deal for the LL Fortuna was $15K.

The parts I'm having the most issue reconciling is that it seems as though you were trying to ask Adolfo to release the figure to you, without him being compensated the full amount ($15K) AND without him being at the destination where he could properly confirm receipt of funds.

Meaning, it appears you knew he was coming to the U.S. to drop-off the figure, but you were expecting him to release the figure with only partial payment. This (the optics of it anyway) seems extremely odd, given the dollar amount, and the timing of his visit.

I can understand you would still want to know if he received the money, but it should have been to make arrangements to make full payment rather than pressuring Adolfo to release the figure just because it was convenient to do so during his visit. I have done time payments on 5 and 6 figure deals - I would never release the item until the entire amount is in hand.

Again, I am trying to understand if there was an arrangement between you and Adolfo to release the figure with partial payment, and to confirm some of the statements he made.

Threads like this can act as a public service to the collecting community, but in fairness to everyone here, I think it's also important to fill in the gaps with what happened because I'm really not understanding the "scammed" part fits correctly on the named party, especially if they felt like they were being asked to do something (send the item without receipt of full payment) against their will.
 
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Nice job distilling the issues, Joe. I have to admit this was all really hard to follow until you summed it up and asked these pointed questions. Hopefully the silence on both sides means they are working together to resolve this, and will report back to us soon. Hopefully.
 
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The title of the thread is "scammed out of $10k..." So I think it's safe to say Scott does not have the money.
Well Kyle....Adolfo claims he doesn't have the money. This is what I was basing my comment off of. This is a huge mess.
 
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When situations like this happen, it's very easy to takes sides without really meaning to appear that way. We base it on experiences we've had with the parties at the center of the issue.

I am hoping I can demonstrate enough impartiality in my questions to get to the essence, because I'm still unclear what the issue is, as per Scott's original post.

I asked this once already, but I think it bears repeating if I can get a response directly from Scott.

From your original post, you mention making a $10K payment via wire transfer.

In Adolfo's post, he mentions the deal for the LL Fortuna was $15K.

The parts I'm having the most issue reconciling is that it seems as though you were trying to ask Adolfo to release the figure to you, without him being compensated the full amount ($15K) AND without him being at the destination where he could properly confirm receipt of funds.

Meaning, it appears you knew he was coming to the U.S. to drop-off the figure, but you were expecting him to release the figure with only partial payment. This (the optics of it anyway) seems extremely odd, given the dollar amount, and the timing of his visit.

I can understand you would still want to know if he received the money, but it should have been to make arrangements to make full payment rather than pressuring Adolfo to release the figure just because it was convenient to do so during his visit. I have done time payments on 5 and 6 figure deals - I would never release the item until the entire amount is in hand.

Again, I am trying to understand if there was an arrangement between you and Adolfo to release the figure with partial payment, and to confirm some of the statements he made.

Threads like this can act as a public service to the collecting community, but in fairness to everyone here, I think it's also important to fill in the gaps with what happened because I'm really not understanding the "scammed" part fits correctly on the named party, especially if they felt like they were being asked to do something (send the item without receipt of full payment) against their will.
Releasing and shipping the figure sounds like thats not the problem here. The fact that Scott send Adolfo 10k towards a figure and has proof its in Adolfos account from both banks is the problem. Scott showed proof from the bank and also left the bank managers name,email and phone number. Where is Adolfos proof he never reeived the money? As he said in his 1 and only post so far( I would be on here daily trying to clear my name and show some proof) I DONT WANT TO WASTE ANYMORE TIME ON THIS ISSUE ANYMORE and IM VERY BUSY. I dont know about you but 10k is far from a waste of time. WOW
 
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Releasing and shipping the figure sounds like thats not the problem here. The fact that Scott send Adolfo 10k towards a figure and has proof its in Adolfos account from both banks is the problem. Scott showed proof from the bank and also left the bank managers name,email and phone number. Where is Adolfos proof he never reeived the money? As he said in his 1 and only post so far( I would be on here daily trying to clear my name and show some proof) I DONT WANT TO WASTE ANYMORE TIME ON THIS ISSUE ANYMORE and IM VERY BUSY. I dont know about you but 10k is far from a waste of time. WOW
With all due respect, it is a big part of the issue. Namely because from Adolfo's account, he got a bad feeling about the deal, especially when he was asked to confirm he received the money when he could only do so by phone. Again, we are going by their interpretation of the events, but to further complicate the matter, it seems like when Adolfo did communicate, and found out he hadn't received the money, he asked Scott to go ahead and cancel it. Unfortunately, I don't know what else to go by, but it seems when Adolfo said he smelled a rat, it was probably another way of saying he didn't feel comfortable with the direction the transaction was heading.

The impression I got was that the deal could only develop into the transfer being cancelled. What happened to the money, no one knows other than the banks and what we are being told by Scott and Adolfo (who says he doesn't have it). Beyond this, to me it seems very odd that if the dollar amount was $15K and only $10K was sent, there would be no reason for someone to release the figure without some prior arrangement.

Also, I asked this to Scott to hear his account of the situation, and would appreciate hearing a response from him.
 
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When Scott initially posted his story I sided with him because I just couldn't understand how you could lie about something like this and get away with it. It seemed an easy task for Adolfo to show that he didn't have the money in his bank account. $10k is a lot of money and if one side decides to stop communicating then they end up looking like the guilty party. So the next day when watch out links were posted and a few friends spoke up about their bad experiences with Scott i felt I had I judged Adolfo unfairly and that I shouldn't have doubted his good reputation.

However I have to say that Scott has been forthcoming with the evidence so far whilst Adolfo has remained silent. I don't want to talk badly of a man with a good reputation but if he won't speak up for himself and put the evidence forward then what choice do we have but to assume he is the guilty party

Regardless of whether the payment is $10k or $15k the fact of the matter is someone is lying and someone has/had that money in their account. Lets put these documents aside because it really isn't clear if money was sent, received, returned etc. What needs to be shown is who has the money now by showing the relevant bank statements for this period of time.

Scott needs to show the bank statement showing the payment leaving his account and that is was not returned. Adolfo needs to show that his bank account did not receive the funds or that they were returned. If posting these documents publicly isn't safe then how about someone acts as an intermediary to look at these documents and make a judgement on this? It takes both parties to cooperate and if someone isn't willing to then they are making themselves look guilty and damaging their own reputation. You can't judge this purely on past reputation - not with this sum of money. I'm not buying this "I've got a good reputation so i don't need to bother" attitude.
 
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Just being devils advocate here, but are we sure that Scott's proof shows the money was received by Adolfo? One page mentions a cancel of the transaction and most of the information Scott has provided are apparently emails or email responses. Leaving the bank managers name, email, and number is not as critical as it would seem. I haven't tried (and don't care to try) to call, but if they operate like every bank I have an account at it is against the law for them to even confirm there is an account under the name on the paperwork unless you are on the account or are a pay upon death listed on the account. I highly doubt this bank manager would confirm to some unknown stranger weather or not a transaction occurred. Again all this is from the point of view that Scott has done something wrong, which I am not saying he has.

If we hold these documents at what they are presented to be then we can see a transaction occurred and with Adolfo's silence other than his one post we don't have a clear picture yet. Joe's question is important as was this a partial payment or what, but not as important as where the partial/full payment is? The banks should be able to tell Adolfo or Scott where the money is for sure without other speculation. Adolfo would be better able to clear this matter up as Scott has presented what he has, but without both sides sharing information outsiders don't know.

edit: basically what Oli said he just beat me to it. Both sides need to show better info for outsiders to make a decision.
 
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If I were feeling I've been screwed over for as much as $10k, I would not waste time on a SW forum, I would hire a local law firm and instruct them to enquire and recover my money.

If I were accused of scamming a buyer for as much as $10k, while I did not, I would respond that I did not and that I just can't be expected to prove that I did not receive money (in my legal system, a defending party can't be required to bring negative evidence). I would certainly not show as private documents as bank account statements to a bunch of people on a forum and I would suggest that they mind their own business.

As far as I'm concerned, I would of course like to know what the outcome of this whole mess is going to be, as Adolfo is a good collecting buddy of mine, but in the meanwhile I feel I don't have take side or to tell either party what they have to do.

-Matth
 
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(in my legal system, a defending party can't be required to bring negative evidence).
Matth, it seems "innocent until proven guilty" applies to anything except the postal system and money transfers. In these two areas, you're guilty until proven innocent. :whistling:

Ian
 
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Guys, Scott isn't asking us to solve the problem and get his money back for him, he's using the "Watch out section" for what it was intended for...
To his mind for what ever reason he's somehow out 10K from this seller and that we may want to follow this tread and use caution if planing on sending a large amount of money to him till it's resolved.
Everyone here is asking for proof (put up or shut up) so Scott did... I'm really struggling to follow this as well without some more input but personally is the issue for me is why is someone with a long standing business relationship just being ignored? If someone claimed to have sent to 10K and I didn't get it I sure as **** would be interested in finding that 10K and at the very least trying to help a friend or business associate as best I could.
Granted this is a mess but I know Scott is a very passive nice guy and he is taking his time trying to resolve this amicably but if he is being ignored what is he too think.
I hope I'm not coming off as to one sided here, but this needs to get resolved. We are a tight net community of friends who share the same love and passion and who would like to believe these things just don't happen.
It's just such bad timing that such a negative thing should happen so close to such a positive and fun event as C7...
 
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If I were feeling I've been screwed over for as much as $10k, I would not waste time on a SW forum, I would hire a local law firm and instruct them to enquire and recover my money.

If I were accused of scamming a buyer for as much as $10k, while I did not, I would respond that I did not and that I just can't be expected to prove that I did not receive money (in my legal system, a defending party can't be required to bring negative evidence). I would certainly not show as private documents as bank account statements to a bunch of people on a forum and I would suggest that they mind their own business.

As far as I'm concerned, I would of course like to know what the outcome of this whole mess is going to be, as Adolfo is a good collecting buddy of mine, but in the meanwhile I feel I don't have take side or to tell either party what they have to do.

-Matth
These are all fair points. But this thread exists so it's a little late to now suggest members here shouldn't inquire about specifics concerning very serious allegations. The reason the threads exists may have initially been self-interested, but the public service/awareness component has taken on a life of it's own. More to the point, it's a self-regulating aspect of the community to ensure people aren't wrongfully accusing members here of being "scammers" without some degree of willingness to answer to those allegations when people ask for clarification and/or elaboration. The community also becomes invested for reasons that they want to avoid these pitfalls, so my point of view on any suggestion that people should mind their own business is really best remedied by keeping the matter to emails and the avoidance of posting a watch out thread.
 
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Regardless of whether the payment is $10k or $15k the fact of the matter is someone is lying and someone has/had that money in their account.
I disagree. The specifics as alleged by Adolfo are just as troubling. We are talking about an alleged scenario where Scott first said he didn't have the money, then he did, and seemingly timed the wire in a manner which put the onus on Adolfo to: i) confirm the money was received while he was out of his country of residence; ii) to ship the figure even though only 2/3rds of the payment was allegedly sent. Even when it's a PayPal payment, with all the spoofing nonsense and scam emails, I always make sure to login to PayPal from my computer to confirm a payment has cleared, before sending any merch. If it's pending, or the amount is not what was agreed on, the deal is off. I never confirm any of this over a mobile device because I'd rather see it on a computer screen. So that would translate just the same with any wire - I'd need to either confirm through my computer it's in my account or visit a banking branch in person.

I think most sensible people would understand no one in their right mind is going to send the goods without receiving payment in full. Why was this expected of Adolfo, and how does this make him a scammer?
 
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I disagree. The specifics as alleged by Adolfo are just as troubling. We are talking about an alleged scenario where Scott first said he didn't have the money, then he did, and seemingly timed the wire in a manner which put the onus on Adolfo to: i) confirm the money was received while he was out of his country of residence; ii) to ship the figure even though only 2/3rds of the payment was allegedly sent. Even when it's a PayPal payment, with all the spoofing nonsense and scam emails, I always make sure to login to PayPal from my computer to confirm a payment has cleared, before sending any merch. If it's pending, or the amount is not what was agreed on, the deal is off. I never confirm any of this over a mobile device because I'd rather see it on a computer screen. So that would translate just the same with any wire - I'd need to either confirm through my computer it's in my account or visit a banking branch in person.

I think most sensible people would understand no one in their right mind is going to send the goods without receiving payment in full. Why was this expected of Adolfo, and how does this make him a scammer?
With all do respect.. But I dont know what part of.... THE 10k IS IN ADOLFOS ACCOUNT AND SCOTT HAS THE PROOF ....are you are missing here? :rolleyes:
 
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Where is the proof? I see papers (some are banking documents, others are emails), but there are still unanswered questions about whether a cancellation was ordered.

Why did DarthXXX delete his post?
 
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Where is the proof? I see papers (some are banking documents, others are emails), but there are still unanswered questions about whether a cancellation was ordered.

Why did DarthXXX delete his post?
Umm what more proof does he have to give??? You see papers ? BANKING DOCUMENT WITH ADOLFOS NAME ON IT SHOWING IT WAS DEPOSITED INTO HIS ACCOUNT??? WOW my 4yr old could figure this one out ...LOL

And maybe ask DarthXXX yourself why he deleted his post ?
 
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This is a clear example of trying to add an item to your collection beyond your means, if you need a payment plan where you have to do installments in order to get that desire item then you have a problem. Never buy something that you can't afford in the first place. From the first post from Scott we didn't hear the whole story only that where is my $10K after one month, if I'm out of $10K and the other person didn't receive or hasn't contact me back after the funds are available then I would have cancel the transaction and get my money back a.s.a.p. How come Scott hasn't mention anything about the other $5K? This to me is a clear case of buyers remorse, where he wanted the figure for 2/3 of the asking price. No one in their right mind would send an item if they haven't received the total amount agreed, in this case Adolfo is not the scammer if you follow the other links provided by other members about Scott and their experiences dealing with him you will know who you trust and also who is telling the truth.

We are busy people, Rebelscum.com is not the number 1 priority, so if someone doesn't post much or doesn't feel the need to explain themselves like Adolfo, his reputation will not go down south just because of one person, especially if several members have good things to say about their own experiences with him, Scott waited more than a month to start this thread, I would have done it right away if I wanted my money so bad.

So for the rest of the community if you are going to start a watch out thread about someone else, please tell the whole story, the item in question, the amount agreed on, the method of payment and the method of shipment (insurance, no insurance, tracking, no tracking, etc.). Always be patient about the other party, don't expect an answer right away but don't let the time pass by either, always be courteous to each other, communication and patience are the keys for all the transactions made everywhere and not just here.
 
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As someone already remarked, there was mention of a cancellation order in one of those photos (an email) on Feb 13th. Seems fairly straightforward a question to ask whether that cancellation was ordered.

I brought in DarthXXX because he seemed convinced the money was there, so I wonder if he had changed his mind based on something he missed from his initial assertion.
 
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Isn't Adolfos saying he never received ANY MONEY?... I don't think he is claiming he is short $5,000? Did I miss something?
 
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If you read Adolfo's response, he mentions deal for the figure was $15K. Scott alleges to have sent $10K via wire transfer. Again, I'm going by what both have said, but there's a differential of $5K there, and I didn't get the sense Adolfo was offering a discount.
 
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If you read Adolfo's response, he mentions deal for the figure was $15K. Scott alleges to have sent $10K via wire transfer. Again, I'm going by what both have said, but there's a differential of $5K there, and I didn't get the sense Adolfo was offering a discount.
I see, but Adolfo is saying he never received even the $10K... I think, but maybe I have to go back and read again!
 
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What I understand from both parties is this, Scott sent $10K to Adolfo, Adolfo traveled to USA that same week the funds were available, Scott knew that Adolfo was going to be in the USA and wanted him to ship the figure but Adolfo of course refuse, then Scott canceled the wire, that's why Adolfo doesn't have the money and didn't ship the figure either, end of story.
 
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If Scott has his $ then I suppose it is a total misunderstanding and nothing more to do but walk away>?
 
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What I understand from both parties is this, Scott sent $10K to Adolfo, Adolfo traveled to USA that same week the funds were available, Scott knew that Adolfo was going to be in the USA and wanted him to ship the figure but Adolfo of course refuse, then Scott canceled the wire, that's why Adolfo doesn't have the money and didn't ship the figure either, end of story.
Thats a good conclusion. Do they both agree with that? :)
 
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What I understand from both parties is this, Scott sent $10K to Adolfo, Adolfo traveled to USA that same week the funds were available, Scott knew that Adolfo was going to be in the USA and wanted him to ship the figure but Adolfo of course refuse, then Scott canceled the wire, that's why Adolfo doesn't have the money and didn't ship the figure either, end of story.
This is what I was lead to believe as well, however this is why I asked the questions I did. It seems a little over the top to call someone a scammer though if that's the outcome, and Scott isn't out his money.
 
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What I understand from both parties is this, Scott sent $10K to Adolfo, Adolfo traveled to USA that same week the funds were available, Scott knew that Adolfo was going to be in the USA and wanted him to ship the figure but Adolfo of course refuse, then Scott canceled the wire, that's why Adolfo doesn't have the money and didn't ship the figure either, end of story.
This is basically my understanding except no one has confirmed the cancelation. Since Adolfo was out of town if the transaction was cancelled to him it may look like he never received the funds as his account balance wouldn't have the $10 thousand in it.

It is a shame that DarthXXX deleted his post as he was the first person to say they understood the documents shown and that they showed the transaction was good and made no mention of the cancelation.
 
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Thats a good conclusion. Do they both agree with that? :)
Do you need more than a month to start a thread about missing $10K? I wouldn't wait more than 3 business days. How about the rest of the story? Why did Scott wanted Adolfo to send him the figure if he didn't pay the whole amount? There is more than Scott is not telling, who would you trust Adolfo who has a bonafide reputation or Scott who has several watch out threads here.
 
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Does or doesn't the paperwork Scott showed prove the money entered the account in question?
The question of it being sold for 10K or 15K is moot as it can't be proven unless some sort of texts or emails are shown.
These other questions need to be responded too but for right now we can only go by what we can prove or see so does it or doesn't it?
 
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It is a shame that DarthXXX deleted his post as he was the first person to say they understood the documents shown and that they showed the transaction was good and made no mention of the cancelation.
That's what I thought too, but again, he may have missed something and retracted his comment as he was saying it was pretty much a slam dunk the money was in Adolfo's account. This question about a cancellation has been asked since yesterday and not a single response yet.

Either way, I hope between the two parties, one of them can come here and confirm whether this transaction was in fact cancelled, and whether Scott is out his money.

Having a thread lingering with an effected parties full legal name and accusation of being scammed out of $10K is WAY harsh if the transaction has been cancelled and Scott's money has been returned.
 
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Does or doesn't the paperwork Scott showed prove the money entered the account in question?
From a legal and banking perspective, it is impossible for the paying party to prove that the receiving party effectively received the money into their bank account.
 
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Does or doesn't the paperwork Scott showed prove the money entered the account in question?
The question of it being sold for 10K or 15K is moot as it can't be proven unless some sort of texts or emails are shown.
These other questions need to be responded too but for right now we can only go by what we can prove or see so does it or doesn't it?
That is the question we are trying to figure out. From what I understand the money was deposited, but if it was withdrawn due to a cancelation we don't know.

That's what I thought too, but again, he may have missed something and retracted his comment as he was saying it was pretty much a slam dunk the money was in Adolfo's account. This question about a cancellation has been asked since yesterday and not a single response yet.

Either way, I hope between the two parties, one of them can come here and confirm whether this transaction was in fact cancelled, and whether Scott is out his money.

Having a thread lingering with an effected parties full legal name and accusation of being scammed out of $10K is WAY harsh if the transaction has been cancelled and Scott's money has been returned.
The full legal name doesn't even concern me as much as the bank account info. I am sure there are hot check people who can use the account information shown in a scrupulous manner. Hopefully none of those types frequent these boards.
 
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