BEWARE: SCAMMED OUT OF $10K USD by ADOLFO HUMBERTO MARTINEZ ORTIZ "Merlin72"

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As Ross has stated you cant just take out your fees and pain compensation as you feel. Try being a decent human being and refund the money you received from him. DO YOU HONESTLY EXPECT EVERYONE TO BELIEVE THAT $10,000 CAN JUST BE TAKEN WITH NO RECORD, REASON, RECEIPT OR ANY FORM OF CONTACT MADE TO THE SENDER AND THE RECEIVER??? In a post you put up its states from Scott his bank said the money was transfered into your account and you accepted. Im not saying this is true but what do you say about that? seems a bit odd the BANBK stated it was received by you??
 
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Adolfo RIPPING someone off and bragging about it on here is quite a bad example wouldnt you say.
ADOLFO can Scott keep your figure and the money as compensation?

I wish I could brag about that..... unfortunately i is more complicated that you think.
 
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As Ross has stated you cant just take out your fees and pain compensation as you feel. Try being a decent human being and refund the money you received from him. DO YOU HONESTLY EXPECT EVERYONE TO BELIEVE THAT $10,000 CAN JUST BE TAKEN WITH NO RECORD, REASON, RECEIPT OR ANY FORM OF CONTACT MADE TO THE SENDER AND THE RECEIVER??? In a post you put up its states from Scott his bank said the money was transfered into your account and you accepted. Im not saying this is true but what do you say about that? seems a bit odd the BANBK stated it was received by you??

thats correct and thats the probelms...if you go back to that pic... you will see the money is not labeled... that means it could be use for anything or came for anywhere....think bad.
Scott knew there will be problems and he still did it, now I understand why he was concern about this transaction and worst part is that he still did it....
 
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As Ross has stated you cant just take out your fees and pain compensation as you feel. Try being a decent human being and refund the money you received from him. DO YOU HONESTLY EXPECT EVERYONE TO BELIEVE THAT $10,000 CAN JUST BE TAKEN WITH NO RECORD, REASON, RECEIPT OR ANY FORM OF CONTACT MADE TO THE SENDER AND THE RECEIVER??? In a post you put up its states from Scott his bank said the money was transfered into your account and you accepted. Im not saying this is true but what do you say about that? seems a bit odd the BANBK stated it was received by you??

Btw... he made everyone belive that he didn't knew that it was risky to do that , and today you find out that he did knew....
he said I was inventing stories... and now you know I was telling the truth..

imagine what else I have that I haven't even post.
 
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Adolfo, rather than the back and forth conversation about rights I think it might be a good idea to try and start with 2 questions.

1) Do you have the money or not and are you able to prove it?
2) Have you had any deductions such as fees, fines or taxes already taken off and can you prove it?

I'm sure these are 2 very easy to prove questions from bank statements that you could share with a mutual trustworthy friend for the period concerned and for the bank account the funds were transferred to.

It would be good to get these 2 points clarified first because if you truly don't have the money then this discussion about rights is kind of pointless. If you do have the money we can have that discussion then. But lets understand the situation first.
 
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Btw... he made everyone belive that he didn't knew that it was risky to do that , and today you find out that he did knew....
he said I was inventing stories... and now you know I was telling the truth..

imagine what else I have that I haven't even post.
In the end its does not matter if he conducted the transaction in a way that would purposely screw you over, and that's pretty hard to swallow given his prior favorable dealings with you and at risk of losing $10k, you still owe him the funds.

Imagination is meaningless, if you have something else pertinent to share, share it.
 
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This is not who is more popular, I don't blame anyone if they don't take my side (honestly I don't want anybody in my shoes)

But Really??.. you think I have to pay him back every dime even if I already have proven that he screw it and thats why I didn't get the money in the first place!!...,but you think I have to pay him back even though he knew the risk of this kind of transaction and still did it???????... So even if I dont have the money I have to pay him back because of his mistake....Really??? that's what you are saying?? he came here and told everyone another story, THIS IS A SHARED PROBLEM , bad calls from both sides, sadly is not a 30 dollars transaction buddy, this is a 10K transaction in real life where are rules and laws that are applied to money laundry and some other things going on, unfortunately this is not a sit down behind a screen transaction.
The fact you went on radio silence for 18 months (or however long it was) proves to me that at no point in time were you willing to sort out this issue. As a result, if you were a decent person and kept up communication, this situation could have been cleared up a lot sooner. Wherever the money is, there is absolutely NO excuses for it being dragged on this long without constant updates to the buyer. Any half decent human being would have spent the time resolving this issue straight away - and yes that means spending two hours travelling to the bank, making the appropriate phone calls and responding to emails. The fact that you seem so casual about this really worries me, and for you to say that Scott knew the risks of sending money this way isn't an excuse to plead ignorance to any fault.

The number of top people in this community always amazes me with so many people going to the ends of the earth just to conduct a decent transaction (whatever the value). Its saddens me there there are still people here that are willing to pass blame.

Adolfo - cut your loses, refund Scott and please save what dignity you have left. (That is unless you had the $10k and have already spent it!)
 
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actually, it matters not if its $30 or $3000000, if you have the money, you refund the other person in full, not subtracting anything you feel is worth your "pain and suffering" in the ordeal, SHARED PROBLEM, you both have suffered and so claims against such are equal and a wash.
I disagree. In a situation where money was taxed, deducted, fined, whatever it went through in transit, before it lands into the recipients account, is the only amount he should return, with documentation showing those deductions for the state reasons money was deficient. Responsibility to recover the amount taken should be Scott's. End of story.
 
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I disagree. In a situation where money was taxed, deducted, fined, whatever it went through in transit, before it lands into the recipients account, is the only amount he should return, with documentation showing those deductions for the state reasons money was deficient. Responsibility to recover the amount taken should be Scott's. End of story.
Adolfo was implying that due to the 1)amount and 2) hassle involved that he is somehow entitled to "pain and suffering" damages. Since he agrees the whole ordeal is a shared responsibility then the pain and suffering is also shared and I would say to be fair, equivalent and therefore nothing owed either party. Any fees etc for Scott sending funds in a way advised not to, would and should be Scott's responsibility and should be deducted with any repayment given proof as you say.

I recently spent 2 hours, walked 20 new york blocks, in new york, to go to a PO to mail out pins I paid for, for free to several strangers across the world. I ended up dehydrated with a headache and had to uber back to where I was staying. I want someone to pay for my pain and suffering! ;)
 
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Adolfo was implying that due to the 1)amount and 2) hassle involved that he is somehow entitled to "pain and suffering" damages. Since he agrees the whole ordeal is a shared responsibility then the pain and suffering is also shared and I would say to be fair, equivalent and therefore nothing owed either party. Any fees etc for Scott sending funds in a way advised not to, would and should be Scott's responsibility and should be deducted with any repayment given proof as you say.

I recently spent 2 hours, walked 20 new york blocks, in new york, to go to a PO to mail out pins I paid for, for free to several strangers across the world. I ended up dehydrated with a headache and had to uber back to where I was staying. I want someone to pay for my pain and suffering! ;)
Whatever he's implying here about pain and suffering has no merit. You also have to take into account that English isn't is first language. Not making excuses, but let's put that to rest at least for a moment.

What I'm saying is the sender failed to follow precaution, and sent an amount based on an avoidance strategy of what he felt was a punitive fee structure for sending multiple wires.

In a situation where there are penalties in-transit and the amount is deficient when it finally lands into the account, the amount after deductions is the amount that should be returned, with some form of documentation representing the amounts deducted.

It's Scott's responsibility to chase down every person along the chain that fed off the wired amount, not Adolfo's as the transaction never occurred.

Bear also in mind that the amount sent wasn't the total amount required to close out the deal, so as an installment, it makes Adolfo's case stronger to say a deal never happened.

This thread is all the proof Scott needs to show the deal never materialized.
 
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Whatever he's implying here about pain and suffering has no merit. You also have to take into account that English isn't is first language. Not making excuses, but let's put that to rest at least for a moment.

What I'm saying is the sender failed to follow precaution, and sent an amount based on an avoidance strategy of what he felt was a punitive fee structure for sending multiple wires.

In a situation where there are penalties in-transit and the amount is deficient when it finally lands into the account, the amount after deductions is the amount that should be returned, with some form of documentation representing the amounts deducted.

It's Scott's responsibility to chase down every person along the chain that fed off the wired amount, not Adolfo's as the transaction never occurred.

Bear also in mind that the amount sent wasn't the total amount required to close out the deal, so as an installment, it makes Adolfo's case stronger to say a deal never happened.

This thread is all the proof Scott needs to show the deal never materialized.
I think we're agreeing on the same thing. ;)
 
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Ive been ask to post the IRS letter and lawsuit, im talking to my lawyer about that... that will clear even more this whole mess.
As suggested already, send at least the IRS letter to Tommy. He can give you his word he won't share it with anyone, and as an RS admin, can at least verify this isn't a simple case of you holding money against another persons will.
 
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Before I get burn alive , hang up or expelled from heaven , lets cut the crap and the blah blah blah here is the main event...
This are are only a few screen shots of our conversations, I have way more.... I find them quite interesting......

1) Everything you just posted 50 pages in, Scott had already posted in his first post.

2) All your blah, blah, blah about Scott violating your agreement to rationalize your theft is just pathetic and sickening. I already have a personal rule against doing business with anyone in Mexico. You do your country and other Mexican SW collectors a huge disservice.

3) If you have evidence in the form of letters that you want to post, you'd better consider how to give them some credibility. At this point I wouldn't be surprised it your "I have to ask my lawyer" was a stall so you can buy the time to forge something.

4) Lastly, it's not that complicated. Give the man his money back.

5) But lets be honest... what are the chances you haven't already blown all the money and can afford to pay him back. Pretty much zero.
 
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So, tell me if I have the situation correct then:

You told Scott to send you the money in installments because you didn't want to pay taxes on it. Scott didn't want to pay a huge fee for that, so he sent the largest possible amount he thought he could safely send ($10K). That was too much and the bank flagged the money once it hit your account. You accepted the money, but now you are being investigated for the many *other* times you have illegally sold items without paying taxes on them. You blame Scott for this and are going to keep his $10K to pay your legal fees and fines in the matter.

Do I have that about right?

Tommy
 
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Merlin72 wrote: “I will keep the money as a comp to my person for damages and payments,”

Sems Fir writes: So, you are admitting you are committing international fraud?” Regarding the $10,000 you don’t get to decide to compensate yourself. If you are that’s theft, as Scott does not have the item he paid for, nor does he have the $10,000 funds he paid to compensate you for obtaining the piece. A court decides who gets the money (if a case is bought through the court system). A personal decision (yours) regarding what happens to the money is one of theft, since Scott does not have the item he paid for.

Merlin72 wrote: “as my response have to be with the brain not with my guts”

Sems Fir writes: Based on your response of compensating yourself you are thinking with your “gut” and not your “brain”.

Merlin72 wrote: “AND OF COURSE , IF I GET THE MONEY BACK, rest assure I will give it to you ( after all the fines, taxes and fees I have to pay)

Sems Fir writes: It’s been since March 23, 2015 when Scott first created this watch out thread. That is plenty of time for research to be done as to where the payment funds are. The community has asked on several occasions where are the funds. Can you please provide proof of where the funds currently reside? You state the below but give no additional details, but it seems you know more than the below information you provided

Merlin72 wrote” “SCOTT , In your last message you ask me….. SO, WHERE IS MY MONEY?... here is the answer:
So for the money , here are the 2 things happening :
1) The seizure of all the money – that im fighting not to happen.
2) Money back – heavy taxed plus several fees and fines”.

Sems Fir writes: If the money is seized, the proper thing to do is assist Scott in retrieving his money. If you were his friend for years, it would be the honorable thing to do.

Merlin72 wrote “Yes im guilty of not answering everyone questions or doubts at the time they wanted or as fast as they want,BUT as much as I respect some of the collectors in this forum I preferred to answer to the proper authorities”

Sems Fir writes: If you prefer to answer to the proper authorities why do you feel it is not theft if you keep the $10,000 just as compensation to yourself. Proper authorities deal with laws and a court not personal decisions because you feel it’s fair and just for yourself.

Merlin72 wrote: “but Scott just stop the communication”

Sems Fir writes: Scott clearly states in this thread he hasn’t received responses from you regarding a status of the $10,000 he sent as payment for the item. Personally, I would not suffer a loss of $10,000 and cease communications. Here’s Scott’s written response “Adolfo, you have not contacted me for a year now. No email, no phone call, no text, no letter in the mail, no nothing. Not even a call or email from your 'lawyer" that allegedly told you not to talk to me? but you have been active on the FB forums”

In addition, you admit that you are the one that ceased communications not Scott

Merlin72 wrote: ” Yes, I stop talking to him to the point I didn’t answer his messages and I didn’t work out a solution with him , first it was because of my work because Im very busy during March, April and May)”

Sems Fir writes: Personally, I feel a reputation is a valuable asset in a hobby. If I was conducting a transaction to sell an item to another individual for $10,000 and something happened to the funds that were sent as payment I would be taking the time to figure out how to resolve the matter as the money is the compensation I am receiving in return for an item I'm willing to sell. Personally, work is not an excuse for poor communication and assisting in determining where the money currently resides. I personally would not be ceasing communications to (travel):

Merlin72 wrote” “Ive already visit the USA like 4 or 5 times and Canada 1 time”

Merlin72 wrote: “precautory embargo”. Sure you can type this term for Tommy, but you are not a government official. Many countries look for money laundering. In the image you provided Scott stated you work for a travel agency in Cancun, makes no difference. There’s $10,000 compensation provided by Scott and he does not have the item he paid for since before March 2015.

Merlin72 wrote: “Yes... that's what is says in there buddy, you read correctly..... if I get money back , rest assure he will get it.( like I said before, after taxes, fees, comisions and fines).... read my post that I just send you about "the right thing to do".....”

Sems Fir writes: Now you have changed your stance from keeping the funds as compensation to you will return the funds to Scott. The community is hoping this statement becomes reality as soon as possible. It would be interesting, since Scott made a mistake that it’s defamation? That would be for a court to decide if a case is made.

finestcomics wrote ”In a situation where money was taxed, deducted, fined, whatever it went through in transit, before it lands into the recipients account, is the only amount he should return”

Sems Fir writes: I agree with this statement as it ultimately the total amount of funds that were received, that should be returned. The difference to the total amount of $10,000 is part of the business transaction Scott utilized to pay for the item.

Finestcomics wrote “It's Scott's responsibility to chase down every person along the chain that fed off the wired amount, not Adolfo's as the transaction never occurred”.

Sems Fir writes: Based on comments previously written, Scott has done his research. In addition, it appears Adolfo, knows the current status of the funds, so it appears the funds were received in some capacity. It’s now Adolfo, who has to prove where the funds currently reside. The funds appear to be seized, and will be released minus “heavy taxed plus several fees and fines”. Based on that comment Scott no longer needs to track down every person along the chain, as the funds have been located.

I’m with Tommy and I don’t know either of you and have no part in the transaction. However, this issue is on a public forum in which I am responding to. Ultimately, mistakes were made on both sides. In the best interest of both parties I hope that the money can be returned to Scott as soon as possible, or the item is sent to Scott for his personal collection assuming he would still like the item, with a story to tell when collectors and friends see it in person (should he receive the item). 8>)

Robert
 
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So, tell me if I have the situation correct then:

You told Scott to send you the money in installments because you didn't want to pay taxes on it. Scott didn't want to pay a huge fee for that, so he sent the largest possible amount he thought he could safely send ($10K). That was too much and the bank flagged the money once it hit your account. You accepted the money, but now you are being investigated for the many *other* times you have illegally sold items without paying taxes on them. You blame Scott for this and are going to keep his $10K to pay your legal fees and fines in the matter.

Do I have that about right?

Tommy

100% what is going on. Wouldnt shock me if the investigation uncovered tons of unpaid back taxes and that is where the money truly went.
 
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So, tell me if I have the situation correct then:

You told Scott to send you the money in installments because you didn't want to pay taxes on it. Scott didn't want to pay a huge fee for that, so he sent the largest possible amount he thought he could safely send ($10K). That was too much and the bank flagged the money once it hit your account. You accepted the money, but now you are being investigated for the many *other* times you have illegally sold items without paying taxes on them. You blame Scott for this and are going to keep his $10K to pay your legal fees and fines in the matter.

Do I have that about right?

Tommy
So very.... exposed!
 
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Tommy, why even debate this any longer. Here is what Adolfo said:
Merlin72 wrote” “SCOTT , In your last message you ask me….. SO, WHERE IS MY MONEY?... here is the answer:
So for the money , here are the 2 things happening :
1) The seizure of all the money – that im fighting not to happen.
2) Money back – heavy taxed plus several fees and fines”.

If the money was seized there should be proof of the seizure and the reason for the seizure. It is not Scott's fault if the money was seized due to back investigation into Adolfo's past illegal tax evasion issues. The end result here is Adolfo certainly did receive the funds regardless of what receiving the funds did to open investigations after the fact.

At this point it is clear Adolfo got the money and regardless of where the money went afterwards he has refused to tell Scott any details and refused to help Scott find peace in the situation. Why not say I know the money was taken and I will help you get it? Well if your Adolfo apparently it is because you are to busy and can't take the five minutes it takes to compose an email. No five minutes of spare time in the last year and a half? You had time to spare to go to Vegas, Canada and wherever else you said you have gone. At this point Adolfo deserves to be run out of this hobby. There is no bounce back that he can do to repair the damage he has done. There is no pain and suffering created by Scott. This is what scammers do, deflect blame. Adolfo created this mess by disappearing and not replying to Scott. If he had replied and followed through with common courtesy then this thread wouldn't even exist. I see no reason to even wait any longer. Adolfo is running in circles trying to claim he is not at fault when this whole mess is on his head.
 
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Finestcomics wrote “It's Scott's responsibility to chase down every person along the chain that fed off the wired amount, not Adolfo's as the transaction never occurred”.

Sems Fir writes: Based on comments previously written, Scott has done his research. In addition, it appears Adolfo, knows the current status of the funds, so it appears the funds were received in some capacity. It’s now Adolfo, who has to prove where the funds currently reside. The funds appear to be seized, and will be released minus “heavy taxed plus several fees and fines”. Based on that comment Scott no longer needs to track down every person along the chain, as the funds have been located.
Regardless whether it's one person, or held in one place, bureacracy in situations where money is withheld is a complicated mess. There's people providing services in this area for this very reason, and being this is an international matter, I guarantee you it will be like peeling back the layers before you find out who and where. The real point that should come from this is the responsibility is with the sender, as the recipient (if wise) would refuse the amount in order to offset potential tax implications, namely capital gains. It would seem too suspicious for the person refusing payment for reasons a transaction never materialized to poke their nose around and ask for money withheld to be returned on the senders behalf. You just don't go down that road at all.
 
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So, tell me if I have the situation correct then:

You told Scott to send you the money in installments because you didn't want to pay taxes on it.
I bolded the first sentence just to clarify one point.

There are "reporting duties" regarding money entering into a country.

The threshold requiring the amount to be reported from my most recent trip to the U.S. was set at $5K, where before it used to be $10K.

There is a duty to declare this amount.

There is no tax levied on the amount entering into the country, although if you go over that threshold, you can expect to get the 20 questions.

Where there is a potential issue of money being investigated, withheld, or penalized is if you don't declare or report any money meeting or exceeding that limit when entering into the country.

There is no tax implication until the money is exchanged for product, and the product reaches the border to have import duty levied into the destination country (in this case it would have been Canada).

The deferred tax implication would be capital gains, filed with personal income, and that's only IF a transaction materialized (which it didn't).
 
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(Please no political comments, Ross. This isn't Facebook. ;)- Tommy)
 
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Wow been reading and following this for some time... but I think I have the gist of it all... Scott and Adolfo made a deal for a figure, Scott sent money to Adolfo for the figure... this is where it gets hinky... money gets flagged by Mexican Government... leads to an investigation of Adolfo for other transfers he has gotten in the past... government feels he is hiding income and not paying taxes or dues or whatever... government levies fines and penalties on Adolfo for his past activities... Mexican government is probably going to release the money Scott sent to Adolfo, but minus any fines fees levies penalties etc for Adolfo's past wire transactions he never declared as income or whatever to whatever is the IRS in Mexico... NOW here is what I am getting from reading Adolfo's last communique.

Now mind you I am not agreeing with anything just explaining what I feel is going on... Scott is feeling cheated and lied to i.e. Scammed... he paid the amount they agreed on for a figure, and now had no figure and no money... ( and his feelings are justified )

Adolfo feels Scott broke their agreement by sending the payment in a manner that Adolfo did not ask for, and it caused a lot of crap to happen to Adolfo, and has cost him money and time and who knows maybe even a potential criminal prosecution, because they have looked over his past financial transactions and it looks like he has made a lot of money and not reported any of it so he could avoid paying any fees taxes fines etc... ( which he probably has and now has gotten caught ) and Adolfo feels its all Scott's fault, and Scott should have to "pay" for all the monetary consequences that Adolfo is facing... ( which is a bullcrap move ) and Adolfo feels "justified" in keeping Scott's money because he feels none of this would be going on if Scott had sent the money in a way that Adolfo had specified...

That is my interpretation of this... personally I feel Adolfo should man up and be responsible for his money problems as it was he who chose to try and get away with not paying any dues fees or levies when selling figures... and either give Scott his full 10k back or just mail him the damm figure...

am I right or am I wrong????
 
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am I right or am I wrong????
The one thing seemingly lost, in people's attempts to establish motive for wiring it in installments, is that the original agreed amount I recall reading when this thread first started was $15K.

Three installments of $5K would get the prized Ledy MOC.

For reasons we can only determine from screenshots and hearsay, $10K was sent to offset fees on multiple transfers, however still deficient the remaining $5K required to arrive at the total amount of $15K to close out the deal.

For some reason, the tables have permanently listed in the direction of Adolfo, and the motive in asking for installments is being used against him, with theories about it opening a can of worms with the Mexican tax authorities surfacing. I'm open to hearing more on this theory, but haven't read anything to prove this one way or the other.

In a hypothetical situation where the threshold amount to enter into the country is $5K, it's not illegal to walk in with $4999, and there's no crime if your intent is to avoid the hassle and duty to report it.

If he asked for installments, it was to avoid hassles. By the looks of what's transpired, I have to think it was for the best interest of both parties, and not a self-interested suggestion as it's being made out to be.
 

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Well, Adolfo has 47 minutes to explain this issue. If he can somehow explain where the money is in that time, I'm more than willing to listen. If he can't or is "too busy", then he's gone.

Tommy
 
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Well, Adolfo has 47 minutes to explain this issue. If he can somehow explain where the money is in that time, I'm more than willing to listen. If he can't or is "too busy", then he's gone.

Tommy

Thank you. It's more than time for some common sense after 18 months. His defenders are making people sick.
 
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finestcomics wrote: “Regardless whether it's one person, or held in one place, bureacracy in situations where money is withheld is a complicated mess. There's people providing services in this area for this very reason, and being this is an international matter, I guarantee you it will be like peeling back the layers before you find out who and where. The real point that should come from this is the responsibility is with the sender, as the recipient (if wise) would refuse the amount in order to offset potential tax implications, namely capital gains. It would seem too suspicious for the person refusing payment for reasons a transaction never materialized to poke their nose around and ask for money withheld to be returned on the senders behalf. You just don't go down that road at all”.

Sems Fir writes: Scott has shown he has taken responsibility and done his research into this issue, and provided information in this thread, so the issue is clearly not with Scott but with Adolfo not communicating with Scott as to where the funds are now, and not sending the item Scott sent the payment for. Adolfo stated previously the status of the funds in this thread. Adolfo, was not wise to cease communications. If Tommy’s synopis is correct and Adolfo is upset that he is being investigated for tax evasion that’s not Scott’s issue. If you are to pay taxes on the funds, then one should have taken that into account in the selling price. Regardless, how the agreement of payment was to be made the fact is Scott sent $10,000 to purchase the item and currently does not have the item he paid for. In addition, Scott is also out $10,000.

In this issue for Scott you do go down that road as it’s Scott’s money. At this point Scott wants the $10,000 returned. It’s a road that must be traveled. If Adolfo does not want that road traveled then he needs to send the item to Scott. It’s either send back the money, or send the item.


Robert
 

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Well, folks, Adolfo won’t be joining us again. He had more than enough time to explain himself or present the evidence he claimed to possess, but instead he regurgitated the same tired lines again and again. So, he’s now been banned.

I had no dealings with either party before this event. To the best of my knowledge, I have never talked or dealt with either. Ultimately, I have no idea what happened here. I don’t know where the money is. But I do know that even if Adolfo truly doesn’t have the money, he’s still in the best position to find it. He seems to know exactly where it is, but refuses to give details, because he hasn’t had a moment’s free time in the last 19 months, apparently. That is unacceptable. Scott sent the money. He fulfilled his side of the arrangement, even if it (arguably) wasn’t the exact method Adolfo would have preferred or requested. But Adolfo still accepted the money. Which means that anything which happens as a result is on *him*. His (hypothetical) prior illegalities are not Scott’s concern.

In Scott’s version of events, Adolfo is a thief.

In the few fragments of explanation Adolfo has posted, he makes himself out to be *at best* unscrupulous and untrustworthy, and at worst, an idiot who has stolen from both Scott and the government.

I don’t know whose version of events is true. In neither version of events is Adolfo someone this community needs any longer though. I would not trust him with my money under any circumstances (except possibly if he were my travel agent, as he seems to be HIGHLY dedicated to that profession since it’s consumed his every waking hour for the last year and a half). Since I would not trust him with my money, I can’t ask our members to do so either. I truly hope Adolfo still makes good on his responsibilities however, even if I seriously doubt he will ever come through.

That said, have fun on your latest trip, Adolfo! Hopefully you meet a lot of people just like you.
 
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Sorry but if this happened to me I would have been on a plane down there well before now to pay Adolfo a little visit :whistling:
 
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I wonder if Andre would be available for hire? Perhaps an offering of a new bat and hat as part of the incentive. :grin: The long time vets of the forum would understand my post. B)

Robert
 
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Wow been reading and following this for some time... but I think I have the gist of it all... Scott and Adolfo made a deal for a figure, Scott sent money to Adolfo for the figure... this is where it gets hinky... money gets flagged by Mexican Government... leads to an investigation of Adolfo for other transfers he has gotten in the past... government feels he is hiding income and not paying taxes or dues or whatever... government levies fines and penalties on Adolfo for his past activities... Mexican government is probably going to release the money Scott sent to Adolfo, but minus any fines fees levies penalties etc for Adolfo's past wire transactions he never declared as income or whatever to whatever is the IRS in Mexico... NOW here is what I am getting from reading Adolfo's last communique.

Now mind you I am not agreeing with anything just explaining what I feel is going on... Scott is feeling cheated and lied to i.e. Scammed... he paid the amount they agreed on for a figure, and now had no figure and no money... ( and his feelings are justified )

Adolfo feels Scott broke their agreement by sending the payment in a manner that Adolfo did not ask for, and it caused a lot of crap to happen to Adolfo, and has cost him money and time and who knows maybe even a potential criminal prosecution, because they have looked over his past financial transactions and it looks like he has made a lot of money and not reported any of it so he could avoid paying any fees taxes fines etc... ( which he probably has and now has gotten caught ) and Adolfo feels its all Scott's fault, and Scott should have to "pay" for all the monetary consequences that Adolfo is facing... ( which is a bullcrap move ) and Adolfo feels "justified" in keeping Scott's money because he feels none of this would be going on if Scott had sent the money in a way that Adolfo had specified...

That is my interpretation of this... personally I feel Adolfo should man up and be responsible for his money problems as it was he who chose to try and get away with not paying any dues fees or levies when selling figures... and either give Scott his full 10k back or just mail him the damm figure...

am I right or am I wrong????

THIS is quite possibly my favorite comment of the thread.

I have been following this thread since day 1. I have no affiliation or dealing with either party involved... This comment seems to sum up my thought. I have been thinking all day at work (a nice long 14 hour shift) about how I would finally provide some input.. and Nerfherder did it for me. Thanks!

Just to add... I see both sides, But I believe it is fairly obvious at this point that Adolfo has not been participating in a solution. Deals go bad, people muck up, mistakes are made, and this hobby can get a bit messy.

Both parties here may hold a bit of fault.. at least in the terms of an initial agreement, but there seems to be one MAJOR difference which fractures mutual blame..

Honesty, transparency, and willingness to work towards a common solution and resolvent are paramount to success within this hobby. That is true for ALL OF US, whether we be popular, well known, part of the inner circle (OOOOOHHHH) or someone like me...very few of you know or have dealt with me...yet here I lurk. Regardless, this is a community, and the livelihood of this hobby, and RS and other forums alike thrive on the family we all can be.

This whole ordeal is a shame...for more reasons than I can even mention. Two of these reasons are large enough to utter however.
-ONE-It is a shame to see a break down in communication, as it is the key to modern collecting. Scams, theft, and dishonesty aside... wrong or right...intentional or not...communication could have stopped this thread 30 pages ago.

-TWO-How quickly can we all turn on each other... the trolling in this thread is disgusting. I have dealt with several collectors whose back I will always have, I have experienced true honesty, transparency, and true mentoring. There are collectors that, If accusations came up about, I would easily back and support just on experience... That being said.. It is quite possible that someday one of these collectors will pull a dirt bag move.. but unless I had proof, I would stand by their side.

Tommy made the right move. Matthieu and Darren do not deserve to be talked to in such a manner... Ross already hit the nail on the head..AT THE TIME..people stuck by someone they trusted. People change...has anyone in any of your lives changed, and along with it your opinion of them or relationship? Happened to me! damnedest thing.

This has been an interesting saga... Scott, I hope for the best. To the rest of us, lets try to continue and enjoy this hobby. It shouldn't be a pi$$ing contest.

-Drew
 
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^^^
Thanks for the above.

But as poor Matthieu and Ross amongst others can attest....usually the good guys don't go bad.

Usually.

When you spend years making deals and friends,going to conventions,toy shows and networking....and then burn everybody that comes forward to "back you" ....the road back can be impossible.

Tommy showed amazing restraint by trying to resolve this seemingly unresolvable mess,and his measured response is far more conducive to actually helping than some of the mud being slung around by some in this thread.

Say for instance I decided to sell a very valuable MOC....and I just decided to keep the money. I'm pretty certain many who know me would message,call,FB me in an attempt to bring me to my senses....and the hypothetical buyer would no doubt be distraught by a queue of my supporters rallying round to defend me.

This is what happened in the Adolfo situation. When we didn't possess all the facts....we went with past form....things that appeared out of character. Heck....I backed him. He was a high profile LEDY collector and I'd spoke to him in various threads.

But this nonsense about "defamation of character" or "hurt feelings" is more ridiculous than the fact he wants to tax Scott for his shady financial shenanigans.

Yup....Scott mucked up trying to save a few bucks....but I'm sure he wouldn't have been so frugal giving the results of his actions. And to think. Sending a carded figure could resolve this mess,and exonerate both parties....and heck even repair Adolfos standing in the community.

Im sure if Scott were to receive the Bib he'd happily pay the other $5K and even help with Adolfos fines,taxes and levies.

If Adolfo was so attached to the Bib in the first instance he'd never have sold it.

I know if one MOC had annihilated my reputation in the hobby....I'd being doing my utmost to restore it.

Yes....a simplistic resolution for an incredibly complicated and drawn out clusterfudge.

But it seems Adolfos time has now run out. Another pariah....and a cautionary tale.

Sorry for the melodrama.....


Darren
 
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No one is going to dispute some action needed to be taken. The length of time that has elapsed is just too long to not drive home the consequences.

Sadly, this dragged along with it a great deal of unecessary finger pointing, fanfare and name calling - for reasons, I won't bother to delve into, except to say I threw up in my mouth a little when some confused this thread as a casting call for prognostication detectives.

Personally, I've been on the side of money being returned from day one.

If I've maintained contact with one side or the other, or added a perspective that seemed like I was taking sides, it was badly misconstrued.

My objective was teasing out the truth, secondary to money being returned.

The watch out section here is a instrument to steer those who stray to return to the herd, and in this case, all the remedies were exhausted.

Associations with both parties were strained initially by a lopsided reputational advantage by a well-liked community member, whose trustworthiness faded as it became clearer their approach didn't mesh with the communities expectations to arrive at a resolution.

This - the part emphasized in bold - is what utlimately did Adolfo in, and why he's been relegated to the ranks of pariah.

As much as we want to believe the community acts as a court of public opinion in such matters, nothing has otherwise been proven here by either side that theft by deception has been committed.

If I'm wrong about this, I'd like to be proven wrong as it may well allow me to arrive closer to the truth.

From my perspective, finding faults to root out rogue members based on issues of non-responsiveness, communication lag, delays in money being returned, and not following instructions on a deal of this magnitude are things requiring long memories to be done right, and this thread has only proven an elephant has nothing on karma's memory span.
 
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We don't know the full story, but I totally support Tommy's decision to ban Adolpho. Scott has provided lots of information, and Adlopho simply hasn't, despite the invitations to do so. I know that the moderator team here does not issue bans lightly and that much consideration and discussion must have preceded the ultimatum and its implementation.

I also appreciate all the posters in this thread who have remained objective and even mannered, as well as those who have graciously changed their positions on the matter - that takes guts to do. Some other posters seem to be reveling in joy at having backed the right horse before anyone could know for sure. Personally, I take no joy in the conclusion - one collector is ostracized, and another is out $10K. It doesn't seem like there have been any winners here.
 
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We don't know the full story, but I totally support Tommy's decision to ban Adolpho. Scott has provided lots of information, and Adlopho simply hasn't, despite the invitations to do so. I know that the moderator team here does not issue bans lightly and that much consideration and discussion must have preceded the ultimatum and its implementation.

I also appreciate all the posters in this thread who have remained objective and even mannered, as well as those who have graciously changed their positions on the matter - that takes guts to do. Some other posters seem to be reveling in joy at having backed the right horse before anyone could know for sure. Personally, I take no joy in the conclusion - one collector is ostracized, and another is out $10K. It doesn't seem like there have been any winners here.
Well said Kevin
 
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Adolfo, good riddance.... 'may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your arm pits'.

Scott, I suggest investigating Mexican 'Collection Agencies', in their various forms...
 
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At the risk of derailing this a bit, as prices rise in this and other hobbies deals crossing the sacred 10k threshold are sure to increase. I just cut a check for 11k myself. Is there any guidance in a thread somewhere on how collectors are supposed to navigate the internal and international dealings of banks and governments when it comes to wire transfers and checks? Most European auction houses don't process credit card payments over 1000 pounds/euros, and require a wire transfer. This makes it seem routine, but I wonder how often these things are flagged or cause people problems as apparently happened here.

To clarify, it seems this 10k limit has not kept up with inflation. It is not that uncommon to see purchases/offerings higher than this on a daily basis now.
 
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So, tell me if I have the situation correct then:

You told Scott to send you the money in installments because you didn't want to pay taxes on it. Scott didn't want to pay a huge fee for that, so he sent the largest possible amount he thought he could safely send ($10K). That was too much and the bank flagged the money once it hit your account. You accepted the money, but now you are being investigated for the many *other* times you have illegally sold items without paying taxes on them. You blame Scott for this and are going to keep his $10K to pay your legal fees and fines in the matter.

Do I have that about right?

Tommy

Such a great post it needs reposted
 
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I also appreciate all the posters in this thread who have remained objective and even mannered, as well as those who have graciously changed their positions on the matter - that takes guts to do. Some other posters seem to be reveling in joy at having backed the right horse before anyone could know for sure. Personally, I take no joy in the conclusion - one collector is ostracized, and another is out $10K. It doesn't seem like there have been any winners here.

Im sorry but I dont agree with the above comment, there has been a winner here...... ADOLFO he has 10K and his figure! Its a disgrace.
 
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I also appreciate all the posters in this thread who have remained objective and even mannered, as well as those who have graciously changed their positions on the matter - that takes guts to do. Some other posters seem to be reveling in joy at having backed the right horse before anyone could know for sure. Personally, I take no joy in the conclusion - one collector is ostracized, and another is out $10K. It doesn't seem like there have been any winners here.

Im sorry but I dont agree with the above comment, there has been a winner here...... ADOLFO he has 10K and his figure! Its a disgrace.
Agree .........
 
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