Attack of the Clones is a great Star Wars movie!

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I just decided to watch all of the prequels again, and I can’t stop thinking about how they don’t get enough respect from Star Wars fans. I remember watching Attack of the Clones in the theater, and hearing the cheers from fans when Yoda confronted Count Dooku.

There were so many great moments in the film including seeing Mace Windu in action, Obi Wan Kenobi hunting down Jango Fett, the Battle of Geonosis and the Clones, the start of Anakin Skywalker’s turn toward the dark side, the start of The Clone Wars, and watching Ewan Mcgregor show the development of Obi Wan Kenobi in to a Jedi Master.

I think it’s a vastly underrated film, and it leads to one of my favorite Star Wara films, Revenge of The Sith.

Are there any other fans of Attack of The Clones?
 
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I agree that the PT movies are underrated. Oh, there's certainly room for improvement across the trilogy, but the expectations were just way too high. The movies have some positive moments and attributes, and in my opinion, they led to some of the best Star Wars content produced in the last decade: TCW and Rebels animated series.
 
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I agree that the PT movies are underrated. Oh, there's certainly room for improvement across the trilogy, but the expectations were just way too high. The movies have some positive moments and attributes, and in my opinion, they led to some of the best Star Wars content produced in the last decade: TCW and Rebels animated series.
I agree. The Clone Wars and Rebels are two of the best Star Wars animated series we’ve gotten. And, TCW builds on the character of Anakin Skywalker, so when you watch Revenge of The Sith again his decent in to the Dark Side is more tragic. I’m really looking forward to seeing the continuation of that series TBH.
 
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Joe said:
I just decided to watch all of the prequels again
episode 1: introduce 2 noble ideals from 2 noble protagonists : "padme's Militarization" of naboo; and "qui-gon's Defiance" of authority.
((padme teaches: it's OK to pull an army out of your *** as long as it's for 'defense' (second amendment stuff);
qui-gon teaches: it's OK to defy the Jedi Order when they're not listening to your mantra about "will of the force")).
^^ the audience is on board. the audience agrees with BOTH


episode 2: push these 2 noble ideals down the slippery slope, from 2 universally hated characters : count dracula and Jar Jar binks.
((jar jar is the other half of padme's planet, they are inextricably linked -- jar jar applies padme's logic on a galactic scale -- he "Militarizes" the entire republic, out of fear;
Count Chocula is qui=gons jedi master, they are inextricably linked -- dooku applies qui-gon's logic on a galactic scale -- creates a separatist movement in "Defiance" of the republic, out of anger))
^^ the audience is aghast. the audience disagrees with BOTH.


episode 3: make anakin choose, he chooses the "padme" position -- but he loses her, because of the slippery slope (she no longer agrees with this position) -- he burns-to-vader ON a slippery slope. just to drive the point home visually.
((this forces all remaining jedi to follow qui-gon's path of "Defiance" -- the path of "Rebellion" -- the path to immortality))
^^ the audience makes popcorn, in anticipation of the OT.



-===========-


Episode 2 is OK. it does its job. but unfortunately , it does it in such a way , that nobody can see the point of this movie.

it should be re-titled "Attack Of The Slippery Slope" , if only so people can actually see what's really going on between these 3 films.

((the PT is not just the "origin of vader" ; its the origin of the Empire Itself (padme THOUGHT IT UP in TPM with the Militarization of Naboo); it is the origin of the Rebellion (qui-gon THOUGHT IT UP in TPM with his "Defiance" of the Jedi Order)))

AOTC gives us the "slippery slope": driven by Fear (jar jar) and Anger (dooku), it shows us how a "Noble" ideal can be perverted into something "Evil" -- this parallels the Fall of Anakin (into Vader) which is ALSO driven by Fear and Anger -- the Fall of Anakin is ALL about the "slippery slope" -- this is Anakin's Fatal Flaw (he takes a noble ideal and goes WAY too far with it) he can't navigate a "slippery slope".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope





---> ask yourself, had you ever thought of this before? if "No" then AOTC has failed in its purpose. it is not a "Great" movie. cheers.
 
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also "jumping yoda" kinda ruined it for me. so there's that.
 
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It’s absolutely campy, kitschy fun. From the tacky, Saturday-morning cartoon designs to the cheesy, horrendous “acting”: it’s Star Wars as envisioned as a 1950s pulp novel. All it needs is a telanovela-dub to finish off the campiness of it all.
 
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Are there any other fans of Attack of The Clones?
my daughter is a fan of AOTC.

my daughter was 3 months old when it came out. I took her to the movie, she sat on my lap in the theater.
she stared at the screen with wide-eyed wonder for about 20 minutes... and then fell asleep, to the soothing sounds of "Pew! Pew! Pew!"
she grew up with this one. it's in her blood. she wore the costumes, she played with the toys. she absolutely adored this movie.

looking back as a teenager, she has now grown enough to admit, the movie is 90% cringeworthy.
she laughs at the shockingly bad dialog, and cringes at the clunky love story (c/w cows and sand).
it's almost like a cheesy, campy, tribute-to-SW. (like Spaceballs).

---> and who doesn't love Spaceballs? :p am-I-right? LOL (gotta love it) :p
--> she STILL adores AOTC. it's in her blood. she understands it's a crappy movie,
but she makes NO apologies for the fact that she loves it. B)

and that's what it's all about.

-====-

lets not pretend that AOTC is a piece of High Art, nor a "Great Movie" (by any stretch of the imagination)..

..let's just enjoy it for what it is. Adorable? yes. Lovable? yes. but... "Great"?

Cobalt said:
not really.
:p
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope


---> ask yourself, had you ever thought of this before? if "No" then AOTC has failed in its purpose. it is not a "Great" movie. cheers.
I think this whole over simplification of the plot being a “slippery slope” is off base. If anything Lucas is trying to show the manipulation of government to sway the people aka the Senate in to a war they never wanted. Padame represents the opposition to the war. So Palpatine realizes that the only way to get his “Grand army of the republic” he has to eliminate Padame. When he sees that his assination attempts failed he uses Obi WANs and Anakins relationship with Padame to remove her from the equation in order to manipulate Jar Jar. But, everything has been carefully orchestrated for years. He got his new apprentice Darth Tyranus to create the Clone Army for the republic, which would eventually lead to the Jedi’s undoing. However, Palpatine has thought of this from the beginning even in The Phantom Menance when he manipulated the Trade Federation in to starting the Trade Dispute which would lead to the Separitist movement.

The whole Prequel trilogy shows Palpatine’s rise to power, and his manipulation of Democracy and people to create his evil dictatorship. Of course there are his pawns in Dooku who he uses as a figurehead to lead the Seperatists. Anakin is just another pawn he uses to distract Padame, another member of the opposition. He senses Anakin’s potential and plans to replace Dooku one day with a younger more powerful apprentice one day, just like he planned on replacing Vader with Luke. The parallels to the original series are great. But, in the prequels you get to see Palpatine successful in his attempts at luring others to the Dark Side.

The Jedi are pawns as well. They represent the old republic of honor, peacekeeping, and embody democracy. The Sith are the opposite.

For me, I like seeing the bad guys win thematically. However, when you can see the parallels with certain governments in the world today that are taking away more rights from citizens, and using their militaries for reasons other than peacekeeping. Then maybe you missed the main theme of the prequels. And, why AOTC is a great movie.
 
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'Attack of the Clones' is a wretched film. It's badly directed, badly produced, badly acted, badly plotted, badly paced and introduces some really stupid ideas into the Star Wars universe. It was worse than 'The Phantom Menace' even and that was saying something. It's list of grievances is too long for one post.

I think there is a lot of prequel forgiveness going around these days, because the sequel trilogy has turned out to be so below par too.
 
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'It was worse than 'The Phantom Menace' even and that was saying something.
LOOOL My poor poor poor beloved TPM...

George’s thematic and narrative intentions may have the potential to be “great” for The Prequel— but his execution fails on every level, particularly AOTC. Filmmaking is a visual medium — not for its (extremely) shortcomings in The Prequel’s case, to be made up from supplementary materials/novelization. And AOTC is the equivalent of someone dressed as a Furry, and speaking in an annoying Goofy-voice, with distracting unfunny slapstick choreography to stupid dubstep, while giving a first-draft presentation on a serious issue before The Supreme Court (of the United States): The intention may be noble, and the potential may be admirable, but the presentation is so inappropriate an juvenile that it doesn’t merit any serious attention.


I’ll always maintain that the Prequel was brimming with colossal potential that easily exceeded the OT’s. Just unfortunate the execution was such an unbelievably, juvenile, hot mess.
 
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my daughter is a fan of AOTC.

my daughter was 3 months old when it came out. I took her to the movie, she sat on my lap in the theater.
she stared at the screen with wide-eyed wonder for about 20 minutes... and then fell asleep, to the soothing sounds of "Pew! Pew! Pew!"
she grew up with this one. it's in her blood. she wore the costumes, she played with the toys. she absolutely adored this movie.

looking back as a teenager, she has now grown enough to admit, the movie is 90% cringeworthy.
she laughs at the shockingly bad dialog, and cringes at the clunky love story (c/w cows and sand).
it's almost like a cheesy, campy, tribute-to-SW. (like Spaceballs).

---> and who doesn't love Spaceballs? :p am-I-right? LOL (gotta love it) :p
--> she STILL adores AOTC. it's in her blood. she understands it's a crappy movie,
but she makes NO apologies for the fact that she loves it. B)

and that's what it's all about.

-====-

lets not pretend that AOTC is a piece of High Art, nor a "Great Movie" (by any stretch of the imagination)..

..let's just enjoy it for what it is. Adorable? yes. Lovable? yes. but... "Great"?



:p
Ahh, but you fell in to the trap. I never said it was a “Great movie”. My title states that it’s “a great Star Wars movie”.
I’m not going to pretend that the movie doesn’t have its faults, but I will say as a Star Wars movie it succeeds where other Star Wars films fail.
I can still watch the prequels over and over again, because they’re fun to watch, and they add to the lore of Star Wars. And, if the movie is fun to watch, despite its flaws then it’s a success. Christopher Lee as Count Dooku, Ewan Mcgregor as Obi Wan. It’s like watching a movie that’s a period piece. I think a lot of people expect the dialogue to be like our modern society today. But, Lucas was trying to make it different. It’s set A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. That was exactly the reason why I’m not a fan of the sequels. The characters don’t seem like they’re in The Star Wars universe anymore with their dialogue. It takes me right out of the fantasy universe George Lucas created. The Clone Wars and Rebels got it right.

If I’m going to rate the Star Wars films from best to worst. I’ll start with my favorite:
1. Revenge of The Sith
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Star Wars
4. Return of The Jedi
5. Attack of The Clones
6. The Phantom Menance
7. Rouge One
8. Solo
9. The Force Awakens
10. The Last Jedi

Whats intersting about Disney’s Star Wats films is some of them are really good films, but they’re not great Star Wars movies. Does that make sense? For example Rouge One is a great film, the best out of all of Disney’s Star Wars films in my opinion, but it fails as a Star Wars Film. The heroes die at the end. And, while that adds gravitas to the stakes, Lucas would have had the heroes make it out against all odds. Which would have made it fit more thematically with the fantasy universe he created.
 
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'Attack of the Clones' is a wretched film. It's badly directed, badly produced, badly acted, badly plotted, badly paced and introduces some really stupid ideas into the Star Wars universe. It was worse than 'The Phantom Menace' even and that was saying something. It's list of grievances is too long for one post.

I think there is a lot of prequel forgiveness going around these days, because the sequel trilogy has turned out to be so below par too.
Wow! Such hate for AOTC. Again, I’ll give you that it has some faults. But, I think some of the hate it gets is because old school fans that grew up on the original trilogy look at them through Rose colored glasses. And, I’m an old school fan. When you look back at Return of The Jedi you can see some cheesiness also. The Ewoks, come on. I loved them as a kid too, but they’re no worse than Anakin’s story arc with Pademe in AOTC. Sure, that’s my opinion though. Why do so many people jump on the band wagon of hating a film because others say they should?
 
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LOOOL My poor poor poor beloved TPM...
Sorry Farmer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

George’s thematic and narrative intentions may have the potential to be “great” for The Prequel— but his execution fails on every level, particularly AOTC. Filmmaking is a visual medium — not for its (extremely) shortcomings in The Prequel’s case, to be made up from supplementary materials/novelization. And AOTC is the equivalent of someone dressed as a Furry, and speaking in an annoying Goofy-voice, with distracting unfunny slapstick choreography to stupid dubstep, while giving a first-draft presentation on a serious issue before The Supreme Court (of the United States): The intention may be noble, and the potential may be admirable, but the presentation is so inappropriate an juvenile that it doesn’t merit any serious attention.

I’ll always maintain that the Prequel was brimming with colossal potential that easily exceeded the OT’s. Just unfortunate the execution was such an unbelievably, juvenile, hot mess.
Agreed. The potential for the prequels to be great was there. But it was completely squandered.

I wanted to like 'The Phantom Menace', I really did. I made excuse after excuse. It must have been me, not Star Wars surely? But, no. It was the film. Into the bargain, the film itself is completely unnecessary. There's just no point in kid Anakin, Qui-Gon (a character I actually liked), Mimsy Skywalker (or whatever her name was), or anything else that's in the film. In the end, I just had to be honest with myself and admit that it was a bad film, littered with bad choices.

The prequels, as a whole, could have (and arguable should have) just been about a mid 20's Anakin falling to the darkside and ignoring all of 40 something Obi-Wan's sage advice, taking place during the Clone Wars and eliminate all of the bollocks.

No yippie kid, no stupid pod race, no immaculate conception, no midichlorians, no roger/roger droids, no Gungans, no Geonosians, no Jingo Jango Fett, no Bobby Fett, no dying of a broken heart, no 1950's diners, no General Grievous bodily harm, no Count Dookula, no crazy frog Yoda, no Darth Vader building C3PO, no R2D2, etc. The list is endless of just how shit those films were.

The latter half of 'Revenge of the Sith' was ok, once you get past Christiansen's piss poor acting and the video game level final fight and Darth Vader's "no" and Palpatine's "no, no, no...."

Actually, no. Forget that. It was all shite.
 
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Wow! Such hate for AOTC. Again, I’ll give you that it has some faults. But, I think some of the hate it gets is because old school fans that grew up on the original trilogy look at them through Rose colored glasses. And, I’m an old school fan. When you look back at Return of The Jedi you can see some cheesiness also. The Ewoks, come on. I loved them as a kid too, but they’re no worse than Anakin’s story arc with Pademe in AOTC. Sure, that’s my opinion though. Why do so many people jump on the band wagon of hating a film because others say they should?
Who's to say that they do? Perhaps they just don't like it because it's a bad film. Both a bad Star Wars film and a bad film over all and I don't think it has anything to do with being and old school or new school fan. The problem are the film's themselves, not which school one belongs to.

However, if you like it, go for it.
 
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Attack of the Clones really works when Obi-wan plays detective. I have always wanted to see the Jedi portrayed as the Guardians of the Galaxy that Obi-wan tells Luke in A New Hope. Ewan is great in the role and I really like the confrontation with Jango. Even the final battle is cool. I am fine with Yoda's fighting style, him standing there and going toe to toe with guys three times his size is silly. It would be stupid not to have him use his size and agility to his advantage. Its the zero chemistry between Padme and Anakin that doesn't work. Its even weirder when there is a deleted scene showing Padme's family. It seems Anakin's virgin birth was done not to deal with the Skywalker lineage then Lucas has like an entire family for Padme we never see again. I honestly believe Lucas had the sketch for Episode II in his mind and the special effects team let him down as well as someone not telling him to add some spark to Anakin/Padme. Lucas did a way better job in Episode III of moving the parts towards the end. It also helped that Spielberg seem to be guiding him turning Anakin and in the final lightsaber duels. Both smart moves.
 
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AOTC is a good movie. Although my least favourite of the prequels, it is still lightyears better than either ST movie.
The only thing "wrong" with AOTC is the love story between Anakin and Padme. The dialogue is cheesy and clunky.
But if you're looking for a good love story, perhaps you should look somewhere other than a Star Wars film.
 
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AOTC is a good movie. Although my least favourite of the prequels, it is still lightyears better than either ST movie.
The only thing "wrong" with AOTC is the love story between Anakin and Padme. The dialogue is cheesy and clunky.
But if you're looking for a good love story, perhaps you should look somewhere other than a Star Wars film.
I agree, the only thing holding AOTC back is the love story. And, it bothered me a little at first. Except I remembered that it should be taken more for what it was intended. Anakin is this awkward kid with exceptional skill that was never meant to have a relationship with a woman due to the Jedi code. And, Padame was former royalty and now a senator. So she’s never really had any relationships other than with her people. So it’s supposed to be awkward. I think where those scenes fail is I think Natalie Portman didn’t have much chemistry with Hayden. I saw the same problems in Thor Dark World with Chris Hemsworth. I think Hayden actually showed some good chemistry on his end, but it was kind of ruined from Portman’s end which was a shame.

However, I think the whole love story is such a small part of the film, it doesn’t detract that much for me over the whole arc of the film. I’ve come to terms with its limitations.

But, I get it. I’m probably not going to convince a lot of people to like the film if they don’t already. I was just hoping to get more conversation about what Lucas got right with the film, than discussing it’s faults.
 
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Sorry Farmer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



The latter half of 'Revenge of the Sith' was ok, once you get past Christiansen's piss poor acting and the video game level final fight and Darth Vader's "no" and Palpatine's "no, no, no...."

Actually, no. Forget that. It was all shite.

I can’t disagree that if Lucas has made some different choices, the prequels would have been MUCH better. But, it’s the films we got. Sadly how you feel about the prequels is how I feel about the sequels. I think my utter disappointment in the sequels has made me appreciate the prequels more.
 
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Actually, no. Forget that. It was all shite.
It really is LOL

Conceptually, TPM had a classical mythology narrative. It genuinely felt appropriate for the “a more civilized age” Ben lamented on in ANH. I adored the confidence, the freshness, and the simplicity of the concept. Simplicity is never basic— and the hardest thing to achieve. (Basic is TFA, with its corporate, lazily copy-and-paste structure.)

AOTC was just unnecessarily convoluted, and seemed like a sloppy apology from George for TPM-- by stunningly dumbing down, both aesthetically and conceptually. (Natalie even suggested that AOTC was George’s Titanic LOOOOL) Except it was so embarrassingly executed, it was leagues clunkier, leagues more wooden, and so desperately pandering than TPM ever was. I’ve absolutely come to appreciate AOTC as a campy cheese-fest nowadays. Still doesn’t look nor feel like SW, but it’s a "fun" hot mess if you’re in the right mood. It’s acquired a charm after all these years— mostly because of just how awful this Sequel is. (But then again, I’m warming to TLJ as some inept SW-parody because it’s just that awful. But both AOTC and TLJ will never be SW, as much of a “fun” hot mess as they may be. Both sides of the debate just need to lighten up and not take it all so seriously.)

This awful Sequel doesn’t instantly make The Prequel “better” by any means. What it does do is make me appreciate that George at least had a unique signature of his own— good or bad, with The Prequel. There’s this old-fashion, classic— even timeless sensibility with his Prequel that I really appreciate. This Sequel is so generic, corporate-trendy it’s like any other nondescript blockbuster Hollywood churns out at the moment.

(Palp’s “No! No! No!” in his best Gollum-voice is hilarious and beats Vader’s “Noooooooooooooooooo!” for unintentional comedic-moment. Ian was clearly having so much fun hamming it up, but ROTS is the worst of the Prequels. It’s just so cluttered but ultimately so empty. I do love love love the moody Amidala/Anakin lamenting across Coruscant scene, though: That sort of pathos, melancholy and haunting beauty in both visuals and tone was what The Prequel should have/could have been had a team reminiscent of ESB team directed and produced The Prequel… :sigh:…)
 
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It really is LOL

Conceptually, TPM had a classical mythology narrative. It genuinely felt appropriate for the “a more civilized age” Ben lamented on in ANH. I adored the confidence, the freshness, and the simplicity of the concept. Simplicity is never basic— and the hardest thing to achieve. (Basic is TFA, with its corporate, lazily copy-and-paste structure.)

AOTC was just unnecessarily convoluted, and seemed like a sloppy apology from George for TPM-- by stunningly dumbing down, both aesthetically and conceptually. (Natalie even suggested that AOTC was George’s Titanic LOOOOL) Except it was so embarrassingly executed, it was leagues clunkier, leagues more wooden, and so desperately pandering than TPM ever was. I’ve absolutely come to appreciate AOTC as a campy cheese-fest nowadays. Still doesn’t look nor feel like SW, but it’s a "fun" hot mess if you’re in the right mood. It’s acquired a charm after all these years— mostly because of just how awful this Sequel is. (But then again, I’m warming to TLJ as some inept SW-parody because it’s just that awful. But both AOTC and TLJ will never be SW, as much of a “fun” hot mess as they may be. Both sides of the debate just need to lighten up and not take it all so seriously.)

This awful Sequel doesn’t instantly make The Prequel “better” by any means. What it does do is make me appreciate that George at least had a unique signature of his own— good or bad, with The Prequel. There’s this old-fashion, classic— even timeless sensibility with his Prequel that I really appreciate. This Sequel is so generic, corporate-trendy it’s like any other nondescript blockbuster Hollywood churns out at the moment.

(Palp’s “No! No! No!” in his best Gollum-voice is hilarious and beats Vader’s “Noooooooooooooooooo!” for unintentional comedic-moment. Ian was clearly having so much fun hamming it up, but ROTS is the worst of the Prequels. It’s just so cluttered but ultimately so empty. I do love love love the moody Amidala/Anakin lamenting across Coruscant scene, though: That sort of pathos, melancholy and haunting beauty in both visuals and tone was what The Prequel should have/could have been had a team reminiscent of ESB team directed and produced The Prequel… :sigh:…)
I often wonder now more than ever about how many fans really hated the prequels, because I really hate the sequels. And, perhaps I’m in the minority loving the prequels.

There are two reasons why I enjoy Attack of The Clones more. #1, I love Revenge of The Sith, it’s my favorite Star Wars Film. #2 The Clone wars series just makes the prequels even better. We get the lead in to the Clone Wars with AOTC, and the ending with ROTS.

The prequels gave us the Jedi in all of their glory, the rise of the Empire and Palpatine. The original trilogy gave us the fall of the Empire. I’m at a loss for what the sequels have brought us.
 
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^^^ The best of TCW absolutely garnered much deserved goodwill towards The Prequel. I’ve always stan that the best of TCW produced superior storytelling, characterization, action sets/supreme choreography and art direction than any of SW, and that includes the much-adored OT (if one can get over the animation-style LOL). Unfortunately, the strong episodes are in the minority, and the designs are on the tackier side of juvenile LOL But what is consistent from the very first of TCW— The Clone Wars Movie, TCW-Anakin and TCW-Obi-Wan are superior versions than George’s. And Ventress is one of the strongest SW characters out there. (Wished she was the villain in AOTC as originally intended. But George would have messed that up LOL)

But I evaluate/judge The Prequel on their own merits. And as much as I will always appreciate/admire George’s concept and his intentions, his execution was absolutely awful. TPM will always define what SW is for me— aesthetically, conceptually and ideally. And it’s my most-watched of SW episode. But it’s such a poorly-executed bore.

If I'm in a very generous mood, I'd say that this Sequel is, at best… reductive.
 
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I can’t disagree that if Lucas has made some different choices, the prequels would have been MUCH better. But, it’s the films we got. Sadly how you feel about the prequels is how I feel about the sequels. I think my utter disappointment in the sequels has made me appreciate the prequels more.
I feel pretty much the same way about the sequels, even if the are better acted and better produced. But, what's worse about the sequels is that there's just no story. At the very least the prequels had a bloody story that was, relatively, coherent, even if it was all over the shop and terribly told.

What the prequels needed, more than anything, was a "no" man to council George's more ridiculous ideas. A Gary Kurtz figure. Someone to temper Lucas' thought process. The prequels are the product of George's fantastic imagination running wild, with no guidance. There was nobody at the controls or the steering wheel. Nobody to say, "no George, that's a terrible idea". The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Kurtz's influence over Star Wars was rather large and without him, it's been for the worse. Which is quite a thing to say because Kurtz hasn't been near a Star Wars set since 1980.

Your disappointment in the sequels probably has allowed you to gloss over the immeasurable flaws of the prequels, no doubt, and that situation is probably the same for a lot of people who are in "prequel forgiveness" mode.

But, I can't let my own disappointment with Disney's trilogy blind me to the fact that the prequels were just awful, awful, movies.
 
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AOTC has a lot of “fun” cheesy scenes— and that’s not including the “romance”…

One of my favs is how Amidala’s bodysuit gets strategically “ripped” by the monster to such a blatant display of what *****cent boys would idealize as “s e x y”. It’s so similar to Scary Movies’ scene of Carmen Electra being chased by a killer, while parts of her outfit get strategically ripped off, culminating to her being stripped to her bra and panties, and running through a sprinkler system while flipping her hair like a pole-dancer… I have to suspect George was punking us all with that Amidala scene. He knew he was bringing the cheese factor— to some extend. (I still remember the outrage at the rumour that N’Sync would have cameos… I mean, Hayden kind of resembled Justin, so there must be some truth to those rumours. I wished they were in AOTC-- imagine the meltdowns in nerddom…)
 
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I feel pretty much the same way about the sequels, even if the are better acted and better produced. But, what's worse about the sequels is that there's just no story. At the very least the prequels had a bloody story that was, relatively, coherent, even if it was all over the shop and terribly told.

What the prequels needed, more than anything, was a "no" man to council George's more ridiculous ideas. A Gary Kurtz figure. Someone to temper Lucas' thought process. The prequels are the product of George's fantastic imagination running wild, with no guidance. There was nobody at the controls or the steering wheel. Nobody to say, "no George, that's a terrible idea". The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Kurtz's influence over Star Wars was rather large and without him, it's been for the worse. Which is quite a thing to say because Kurtz hasn't been near a Star Wars set since 1980.

Your disappointment in the sequels probably has allowed you to gloss over the immeasurable flaws of the prequels, no doubt, and that situation is probably the same for a lot of people who are in "prequel forgiveness" mode.

But, I can't let my own disappointment with Disney's trilogy blind me to the fact that the prequels were just awful, awful, movies.
I think you probably nailed it in describing why the sequels are failing. It all comes back to story. If the story is good, the characters become more intersting. While the prequels are flawed, the over all story and action allows me to over look a lot of its shortcomings. But, when it comes to the sequels, even though the acting is great. The way the characters are written, the plot, and the story is just plain boring. I just can’t forgive them. So, I get it. Some people are going to feel that way about the prequels.
 
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AOTC has a lot of “fun” cheesy scenes— and that’s not including the “romance”…

One of my favs is how Amidala’s bodysuit gets strategically “ripped” by the monster to such a blatant display of what *****cent boys would idealize as “s e x y”. It’s so similar to Scary Movies’ scene of Carmen Electra being chased by a killer, while parts of her outfit get strategically ripped off, culminating to her being stripped to her bra and panties, and running through a sprinkler system while flipping her hair like a pole-dancer… I have to suspect George was punking us all with that Amidala scene. He knew he was bringing the cheese factor— to some extend. (I still remember the outrage at the rumour that N’Sync would have cameos… I mean, Hayden kind of resembled Justin, so there must be some truth to those rumours. I wished they were in AOTC-- imagine the meltdowns in nerddom…)
That scene where Padame looses part of her shirt was done for its *** appeal for sure. Although, I’ll argue it wasn’t as bad as putting Leia in that slave outfit in Return of The Jedi. So all were left with is a skin tight suit with Natalie Portman’s belly showing some skin.
 
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That scene where Padame looses part of her shirt was done for its *** appeal for sure. Although, I’ll argue it wasn’t as bad as putting Leia in that slave outfit in Return of The Jedi. So all were left with is a skin tight suit with Natalie Portman’s belly showing some skin.
The thing is, there was an actual point for Jabba putting Leia in her so called "slave" outfit. He did it to humiliate her, to make her fear him and to feel vulnerable and exposed. He was taking someone, who was a princess, used to a la de da lifestyle of fine clothes and riches and reducing her status to the lowest thing he could think of in an effort to elevate his own and make her understand who was the boss. To let her know that he now owned her.

That makes absolute sense, when we understand the character of Jabba the Hutt. This guy is not just a giant slug. He's a gangster. A criminal that operates in the underworld, who runs drugs (spice) and probably traffic's people too.

Padme's shirt got ripped to show her midriff off for no reason at all, but to show some skin.

There's zero comparison.
 
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TBH, the PT really is no worse than the OT. It's just that the OT has a place in our heart from a young age. But they both suffer from the same things.

Fast forward to the ST, and it's no better because of the same reasons. Some SW fans are less forgiving due to the PT, and thus bored to lackluster worn out tropes.
Some were even totally offend by the "different' direction they took in the new one. lol

But the same themes are there, A typical B movie. ANH simply caught lightning in a bottle, something SW will likely never do again.
 
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The thing is, there was an actual point for Jabba putting Leia in her so called "slave" outfit. He did it to humiliate her, to make her fear him and to feel vulnerable and exposed. He was taking someone, who was a princess, used to a la de da lifestyle of fine clothes and riches and reducing her status to the lowest thing he could think of in an effort to elevate his own and make her understand who was the boss. To let her know that he now owned her.

That makes absolute sense, when we understand the character of Jabba the Hutt. This guy is not just a giant slug. He's a gangster. A criminal that operates in the underworld, who runs drugs (spice) and probably traffic's people too.

Padme's shirt got ripped to show her midriff off for no reason at all, but to show some skin.

There's zero comparison.
Sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. Leia in a bikini is NO different than the Pademe scene. In AOTC Dooku and Nute Gunray we’re trying to make an example out of Pademe and execute her. Instead of killing her immediately Pademe was able to climb the pole she was chained to, and the large clawed creature managed to get his claws on her. I’m the movie, it makes perfect sense, just like it did for Jaba. But, I’m not going to pretend that either wasn’t done for *** appeal. And, just because you feel it was more warranted in Return of the Jedi doesn’t make Return of the Jedi any better.
 
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Yes you can. It's a completely different context, for the reasons I just given you.
No, it’s not. You can’t say the reasons Carrie Fisher was obviously exploited for her looks was any different than Natalie Portman’s. I gave you reasons why it made sense in AOTC, but your saying that it doesn’t make sense. The problem you have is your looking at Return of the Jedi with these rose colored glasses and your pretending that everything makes perfect sense. And, I’m saying if you do that for ROTJ, you have to for AOTC. And, if you can’t, then your being a hypocrite. Because, it isn’t different. Your choosing to take a leap of faith for Jedi, but not AOTC because you don’t like one of the movies. And, your choosing not to see all of the obvious flaws in ROTJ. But, that’s what happens when you like a movie....doesn’t it?
 
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you guys bring up a good point: why didn't Nute Gunray make Padme wear a bikini? (or a burlap sack?)
this seems like a missed opportunity to "put her in her place" (by demeaning/degrading her "on purpose", like Jabba did, sticking his tongue in her face).
imagine how humiliated she would be: climbing that pole, in a "metal bikini". (in the same way that Leia was degraded/humiliated by Jabba in ROTJ).

instead : her costume was randomly 'damaged'(?) in an action sequence(?) by a literal "pole cat"(?) and NOT by her captor/tormentor, AT ALL(?)
this doesn't have the same degree of abject humiliation, forced UPON her, BY her captor/tormentor --- instead, it just sort of... happened(?)
by... happy accident(?).



(do you see the difference NOW?)
 
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I love AOTC. Even during my "prequels are terrible" years I still loved AOTC. The bounty hunter, the clones, the massive Jedi battle...it was all awesome. Sure there is some cringe worthy dialogue but that is par for the course in Star Wars movies (even the currents ones NOT written by George Lucas - I mean all you have to do is listen to any one of Rose's lines).

AOTC is also EXTREMELY toyetic. Think of all the Jedi designs, aliens, new characters and vehicles that came out of AOTC.
 
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I love AOTC. Even during my "prequels are terrible" years I still loved AOTC. The bounty hunter, the clones, the massive Jedi battle...it was all awesome. Sure there is some cringe worthy dialogue but that is par for the course in Star Wars movies (even the currents ones NOT written by George Lucas - I mean all you have to do is listen to any one of Rose's lines).

AOTC is also EXTREMELY toyetic. Think of all the Jedi designs, aliens, new characters and vehicles that came out of AOTC.
The sheer amount of great toys that came out of AOTC is another reason I love that movie. The Clones, Jango’s Slave 1, Obi-Wan’s Jedi starfigter with hyperspace ring, Republic Gunship, AT-TE, all of the Jedi characters.
 
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No, it’s not.
We're not going to agree on this.

You can’t say the reasons Carrie Fisher was obviously exploited for her looks was any different than Natalie Portman’s.
I didn't say that either actress looks weren't exploited.

I gave you reasons why it made sense in AOTC, but your saying that it doesn’t make sense.
I didn't say this at all. I said Jabba putting Leia into a revealing outfit makes sense within the context. I didn't say that Padme's rip "doesn’t make sense". I said that Leia's revealing slave outfit has a POINT, other than showing a bit of the actresses skin, as it were.

The problem you have is your looking at Return of the Jedi with these rose colored glasses and your pretending that everything makes perfect sense.
You don't know this. In fact, you don't have the first clue about my opinions on 'Return of the Jedi'. They may surprise you.

And, I’m saying if you do that for ROTJ, you have to for AOTC. And, if you can’t, then your being a hypocrite. Because, it isn’t different. Your choosing to take a leap of faith for Jedi, but not AOTC because you don’t like one of the movies. And, your choosing not to see all of the obvious flaws in ROTJ. But, that’s what happens when you like a movie....doesn’t it?
You're projecting now.

Into the bargain, I don't have to do ANYTHING with regards to one film and another, entirely different, film. Each one should be taken on their own merits and demerits.
 
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TBH, the PT really is no worse than the OT. It's just that the OT has a place in our heart from a young age. But they both suffer from the same things.

Fast forward to the ST, and it's no better because of the same reasons. Some SW fans are less forgiving due to the PT, and thus bored to lackluster worn out tropes.
Some were even totally offend by the "different' direction they took in the new one. lol

But the same themes are there, A typical B movie. ANH simply caught lightning in a bottle, something SW will likely never do again.
The same themes may be at the heart of all SW films. But the execution is so vastly different: With the OT, the quality of the execution is skillful, thoughtful and risk-taking for ANH and ESB. Not so much for ROTJ; For the Prequel, the intention and potential is there, but the execution and presentation is a complete flop; Nothing remotely resembling passion, heart and potential exists for this Sequel; RO managed to capture the passion, the excitement, sophistication and the worldbuilding, and all so effortlessly, skillfully, unconventionally (risk-taking) and still maintaining its commercial appeal.

Lightning in a bottle is the phenomenon. Phenomenons cannot be manufactured, no matter how much money corporations may throw at their franchise(s).

On the other hand, good storytelling and visionary design can be controlled and maintained, if these corporations bothered to put in the effort. And the design element is an enormous component of what makes SW so unique. None of us would stanning if it were not for the design aesthetic of SW.

No, it’s not. You can’t say the reasons Carrie Fisher was obviously exploited for her looks was any different than Natalie Portman’s. I gave you reasons why it made sense in AOTC, but your saying that it doesn’t make sense. The problem you have is your looking at Return of the Jedi with these rose colored glasses and your pretending that everything makes perfect sense. And, I’m saying if you do that for ROTJ, you have to for AOTC. And, if you can’t, then your being a hypocrite. Because, it isn’t different. Your choosing to take a leap of faith for Jedi, but not AOTC because you don’t like one of the movies. And, your choosing not to see all of the obvious flaws in ROTJ. But, that’s what happens when you like a movie....doesn’t it?
Although it’s true that in both instances, Carrie and Natalie wound up in nerd-candy costumes for the audience’s (boys’) titillation, only the character of Leia’s instance makes sense in the context of its story's narrative, as CellBlock points out: Jabba is humiliating Leia with such submission in a tacky, slavegirl costume. Unless Amidala was paraded by Nute scantily-clad before her execution, it makes absolutely no sense for a “pole cat" (LOL I never realized how literal that was before, Cobalt) to rip her costume strategically in all the “right places”— other than just for the sake of giving something to 10yo boys’ in the audience to gush over. CellBlock is following the narrative logic, he’s not being hypocritical and making excuses for ROTJ.

(There are a handful of posters here of whom are extremely critical of SW, and that includes the OT/ROTJ. It’s isn’t about blind worship of one trilogy over the other— or a "us vs them" mentality. You’ll see that ROTJ gets its much deserved bashing on a regular basis, if you poke around these forums long enough. And I’m thankful for those critics around here that I can learn a thing or two from [even for something as useless and trivial as SW LOOL], rather than just be a circle jerk for anything SW.)
 
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AOTC is also EXTREMELY toyetic. Think of all the Jedi designs, aliens, new characters and vehicles that came out of AOTC.
Have to agree here, probably one of the reasons why I like AOTC so much. All the cool look battle vehicles and various troops. The grand scope of it was almost exhilarating and epic. Not to mention all the various Jedi characters.
 
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I've been saying to my brother for years that in time AOTC will be looked at as one of the best SW movies simply because how pivotal it is to the entire Saga. Everything planted in TPM goes into motion in AOTC allowing ROTS and EVERYTHING after to happen. We see the first "Vaderism" and the beginning of the end for Anakin in AOTC. We see the Grand Army start. We see the freaking Clone Wars start (something we only heard about once in ANH). The Death Star is first seen in the war room on Geonosis. AOTC is chock full of SW greatness that gets **** on cause of some goofy dialogue.

EDIT: we also get to see Obi-wan be a great Jedi and basically did the entire movie by himself. There is a small moment in the aftermath of the Geonosis Arena battle when the Jedi are decimated and you see Obi-wan bending and checking the pulse of a fallen Jedi. He closes his eyes obviously mourning the loss of comrade but also looks like a man who understands like **** is about to get real and it's happening now. Ewan McGregor was fantastic in the PT.

Also we get to see Natalie Portman's bare midriff which apparently pissed some people off (obviously kidding around here).

I'll take the risks and epic scale of AOTC with all it's dialogue and delivery issues over the awful junk spewed out in TLJ any day of the week. I'm more interested in who Dexter is, where he came from, how he knows Obi-wan etc than absolutely anything about Rose.

Damn I was going to (totally coincidentally) play some Star Wars Bounty Hunter on the Wii we just dusted off tonight but screw it I'm popping in that AOTC Blu Ray right now.
 
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