Army of BLACK & WHITE Stormtroopers
- Thread starter markpoon
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Sweet! Are they all the same "Triangular Eyes" type stormies?
edit: Wait, are these customs???
edit: Wait, are these customs???
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Okay I will bite, how are you doing it? Touch ups on the paint? Altering the figures to get the yellow out? Or are you throwing down a donkey load of money to get 42 perfect troopers? I have been searching them out as well and I do not find them like that all that often. Here's mine(just sharing, not hijacking).
Awesome. They all look so fresh. Nice work.
Same question(s) here mark! tho i love those white troopers!
I dont think they are painted white! The really look molded white! The black parts on the white ones all have the same spray masks and the little irregularties are the same on all! So I really think too these are customs, white molded customs, but heck...these look fantastic! Are these movable??
Obviously, they're all customs...it's markpoon, the maker of custom Vlix and rocket Fett (and who knows what else)...
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So they have peg holes but no leg markings??
According to his FS post, the Stormies have softer PVC arms as a way to prevent passing them off as reproductions. Personally, I think that's a little disappointing and a "REPRO" COO should have been used.
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Not a big fan if I am honest, kudos for being able to replicate figures so well Mark (I guess, if that is your thing) but when will it stop? I think you proved you are good at this already and some of the REPRO marked customs were fine but just using softer limbs this time sounds a bit weak and tbh aren't going to be noticed until in hand and by then someone might have just splurged money on some too white to be true stormies (and we all know people go nuts for mint stormies) and the re-seller will just vanish into thin air after the sale.
I guess seeing custom made Stormies that good is just too scary to comprehend for this vintage snob.
I guess seeing custom made Stormies that good is just too scary to comprehend for this vintage snob.
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I totally agree with Joe here! Very scary! Im guessing/hoping they dont have any coo, because Im afraid the limbs will get stiffer in time! These are great....really really scary!
Your Fett was another story IMO, because this figure was never released back then. But white Stromtroopers in this quality will be out there in large numbers very soon! Recognizing it when you have them in hands is a bit too late IMO.
And.....I dont think you can ever start a claim on ebay, because these ebay-guys will never believe you someone could copy those so perfect!
Im also interested in knowing if you have a deal with LFL?? Because the originals do obviously have a copyright!!
edit: I think its better to start a discussion in here and leave your FS thread clean! So I will answer you here:
You are asking 7 USD each Stormtrooper (buying the large lot). A white and perfect Stormtrooper makes people pay crazy amounts sometimes!
I dont think they will get sold single as originals. But selling lots with 10-15 figuresn and adding 4 or 5 white Stormtroopers to it will help everyone out there getting a real good price for their lots! Im concerned these will get mixed in a few years and for those who love to buy larger figure lots it will get a problem IMO!
Your Fett was another story IMO, because this figure was never released back then. But white Stromtroopers in this quality will be out there in large numbers very soon! Recognizing it when you have them in hands is a bit too late IMO.
And.....I dont think you can ever start a claim on ebay, because these ebay-guys will never believe you someone could copy those so perfect!
Im also interested in knowing if you have a deal with LFL?? Because the originals do obviously have a copyright!!
edit: I think its better to start a discussion in here and leave your FS thread clean! So I will answer you here:
Hi Wbobafett,
I don't think the limbs will get any harder. Stormtroopers are not rare & expensive so I think the chances of someone getting scammed is pretty slim
You are asking 7 USD each Stormtrooper (buying the large lot). A white and perfect Stormtrooper makes people pay crazy amounts sometimes!
I dont think they will get sold single as originals. But selling lots with 10-15 figuresn and adding 4 or 5 white Stormtroopers to it will help everyone out there getting a real good price for their lots! Im concerned these will get mixed in a few years and for those who love to buy larger figure lots it will get a problem IMO!
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A did a quick search and found these:
Vintage - Kenner - Star Wars -Stormtrooper- | eBay
VINTAGE STAR WARS STORMTROOPER COMPLETE A1 FLAWLESS | eBay
VINTAGE STAR WARS STORMTROOPER LOT OF 2 3-LINE COO ACTION FIGURES COMPLETE | eBay
These ar just "normal" prices achieved for white Stormtroopers. If you do better pictures you can double this IMO. So you see making 20-40 bucks on each Stromtrooper (minus adding an original wepaon) is not really that bad!
But I agree with you you that selling them single on evilbay will not be the main problem! I personally more afraid these get mixed in lots all the time!
Edit:
Some of us would feel a lot better I think if you would come forward on those three questions:
1. Do these have any markings? Is there no sign of a coo?? can you post a picture with a figure from behind??
2. Do you have a deal with LFL??
3. Please post a picture of the repro weapon, if its also your own creation!
Thanks
Vintage - Kenner - Star Wars -Stormtrooper- | eBay
VINTAGE STAR WARS STORMTROOPER COMPLETE A1 FLAWLESS | eBay
VINTAGE STAR WARS STORMTROOPER LOT OF 2 3-LINE COO ACTION FIGURES COMPLETE | eBay
These ar just "normal" prices achieved for white Stormtroopers. If you do better pictures you can double this IMO. So you see making 20-40 bucks on each Stromtrooper (minus adding an original wepaon) is not really that bad!
But I agree with you you that selling them single on evilbay will not be the main problem! I personally more afraid these get mixed in lots all the time!
Edit:
Some of us would feel a lot better I think if you would come forward on those three questions:
1. Do these have any markings? Is there no sign of a coo?? can you post a picture with a figure from behind??
2. Do you have a deal with LFL??
3. Please post a picture of the repro weapon, if its also your own creation!
Thanks
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From Rebelscum's General Forum Rules:
My opinion is that this has totally crossed the line on what is acceptable and what is not. The custom loose Rocket Fetts were well thought out and executed with no real chance of being passed off as genuine. Then the carded versions were a nice addition and the text on the back of the card clearly indicated them as custom works.
Recently Mark has been selling the kits to card your own and the detail marking them as custom is much more difficult to see. The potential for collectors to be deceived increased significantly with these kits and it seemed we were moving away from "cool custom" to "mass market make your own fakes".
Now with this move we are well and truly in the mass market, creating fakes that will be used to deceive collectors scenario. This is not good for collectors and not good for the hobby. Right now it seems that it's really only good for Mark's wallet as I'm sure the incentive of making a lot of cash is quite a strong influencer. It's also worth noting that the blasters are repros and I'm quite certain these will be a Mark Poon creation that will be different from all the current versions out there and will no doubt be very difficult to differentiate from the real thing.
I would like to call for Mark to withdraw these from sale and destroy the molds but I believe the horse has already bolted and we have our next Revalveit on our hands already. You're no tyro Mark, you certainly knew that doing this would be frowned upon and yet here we are. You're actions are a disgrace to the hobby and you should immediately reconsider what you are doing here.
My opinion is that this has totally crossed the line on what is acceptable and what is not. The custom loose Rocket Fetts were well thought out and executed with no real chance of being passed off as genuine. Then the carded versions were a nice addition and the text on the back of the card clearly indicated them as custom works.
Recently Mark has been selling the kits to card your own and the detail marking them as custom is much more difficult to see. The potential for collectors to be deceived increased significantly with these kits and it seemed we were moving away from "cool custom" to "mass market make your own fakes".
Now with this move we are well and truly in the mass market, creating fakes that will be used to deceive collectors scenario. This is not good for collectors and not good for the hobby. Right now it seems that it's really only good for Mark's wallet as I'm sure the incentive of making a lot of cash is quite a strong influencer. It's also worth noting that the blasters are repros and I'm quite certain these will be a Mark Poon creation that will be different from all the current versions out there and will no doubt be very difficult to differentiate from the real thing.
I would like to call for Mark to withdraw these from sale and destroy the molds but I believe the horse has already bolted and we have our next Revalveit on our hands already. You're no tyro Mark, you certainly knew that doing this would be frowned upon and yet here we are. You're actions are a disgrace to the hobby and you should immediately reconsider what you are doing here.
I highly doubt this.
Then it should be easy to stop this all, am I wrong???...too naive??
No matter what! Please Mark, please: document in pictures what you have for sale here!! Pictures from the figures from the back and the weapons! Throwing these out without clearly documenting it makes this all worse IMO.
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So does this mean you will not sell them at all, anywhere at any time, or just that you're not going to sell them here?
What about the repro weapons, how close are these to the originals? I think it would be highly beneficial to everyone if you would post hi-res images of both sides of this creation so it can be added to TIG's archive.
What are your intentions regarding the figures you have already manufactured? I'm assuming that as you are ready to sell them that there are a number all ready to ship out.
Please understand, I have no issue at all with the Black Stormtrooper, there's no chance this can be mistaken for anything other than a well executed custom. I think if you're going to continue to produce custom figures that this is the key criteria to keep in mind. If a beginning collector cannot take a quick glance at an item and determine that it is a custom, then it's too close to the real thing and has the genuine potential to cause problems for many people. I really would not want to see a custom Yak Face or Vinyl Caped Jawa any time in the future.
I agree with Dax here!
Mark, please join this discussion here. From my point of view your input would be very apreciated and your welcome!
I would rather see you joining the discussion then hiding!
Finding a solution in public which all of us makes happy would be more of interest then not knowing what happens from now on at backdoors!!
Mark, please join this discussion here. From my point of view your input would be very apreciated and your welcome!
I would rather see you joining the discussion then hiding!
Finding a solution in public which all of us makes happy would be more of interest then not knowing what happens from now on at backdoors!!
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I also have to agree with a lot of what has been said above Mark, as you know I have myself bought fett's & a Vlix from you in the past & do see that your work is of great help & interest for items not readily available to the average collector, I can even see a great influx of folks wanting minty stormtroopers for army building dioramas etc, BUT & its a big BUT - they MUST be IMO CLEARLY marked with a Repro COO, maybe even a line down the back leg stating REPRO in large font, if done that way I feel these would be widely accepted as a useful input for the hobby, particularly with collectors & hobbyists wanting to create army's & or make dioramas, the weapons also IMO need to be made easily distinguishable from the vintage - maybe twin coloured etc for clarity.
Sadly with you not inputting to the thread with clear photos of the reverse of the figures & high res photos of the weapons it only makes you look bad in the eyes of the collecting community.
Another valid point & one I myself would be greatly concerned about is the LFL copyright infringement, as if not being clearly marked as repro's & no deal having been done with LFL, I can see rather stormy waters ahead for you as Lucas has the power to put a lot of pressure on you if he so wished & I for one would not like to see you end up behind bars, hell even with Repro marked on the figures you could end up with a lawsuit with them being a figure which was released, the black troopers would not be an issue at all as far as I see it, you could even produce sand troopers & maybe camouflage troopers, but white stormies with nothing more the more flexible limbs is pushing it large time IMHO & I would urge you to consider what exactly is going on here - helping the community or helping your bank balance.
& just so I make my position clear Mark - I would indeed buy such items myself from you, but ONLY if something is done to mark them clearly as reproduction items.
This could otherwise be a very sad day in the SW collecting hobby & a point from which many collectors feel its not worth the effort in continuing a hobby they love.
Sadly with you not inputting to the thread with clear photos of the reverse of the figures & high res photos of the weapons it only makes you look bad in the eyes of the collecting community.
Another valid point & one I myself would be greatly concerned about is the LFL copyright infringement, as if not being clearly marked as repro's & no deal having been done with LFL, I can see rather stormy waters ahead for you as Lucas has the power to put a lot of pressure on you if he so wished & I for one would not like to see you end up behind bars, hell even with Repro marked on the figures you could end up with a lawsuit with them being a figure which was released, the black troopers would not be an issue at all as far as I see it, you could even produce sand troopers & maybe camouflage troopers, but white stormies with nothing more the more flexible limbs is pushing it large time IMHO & I would urge you to consider what exactly is going on here - helping the community or helping your bank balance.
& just so I make my position clear Mark - I would indeed buy such items myself from you, but ONLY if something is done to mark them clearly as reproduction items.
This could otherwise be a very sad day in the SW collecting hobby & a point from which many collectors feel its not worth the effort in continuing a hobby they love.
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I mean he´s selling Rocket Fetts for years and Lucas or Hasbro (don´t know who has the rights of the vintage figures) haven´t obviously done anything in this direction. Keep in mind Hasbro produced a rocket Fett on their own some month ago. BTW - it´s a copyright infringemant, no matter if the troopers are black, white or pink, the same with a sandtrooper. It´s not allwowed to copy or produce copyrighted material.
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Beneficial to hobby NO, beneficial to his wallet YUP!
Wow. Just wow.
Like many have said. I think this batch of figures Mark has made have crossed the line. WAY over the line. I have nothing else to add that hasn't already been said better than I can. But I'll add that Someone like Mark knows how vintages collectors feel about repro crap. Why would he go this far?? To fill his wallet?? Probably. At the very least the figures should be marked with a big "REPRO" on the back somewhere. Just Wow. Someone is going to get royally screwed at some point.
Like many have said. I think this batch of figures Mark has made have crossed the line. WAY over the line. I have nothing else to add that hasn't already been said better than I can. But I'll add that Someone like Mark knows how vintages collectors feel about repro crap. Why would he go this far?? To fill his wallet?? Probably. At the very least the figures should be marked with a big "REPRO" on the back somewhere. Just Wow. Someone is going to get royally screwed at some point.
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I am really impressed with Mark's ability. How do you recreate these? How many will be pumped into circulation? I think these would be really well received ( and I'd buy some) if they just had a small repro stamp where the COO should be.
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these figures really could open the gate a completely new wave of replicas. what else could be possible: yodas? luke stormtroopers? r2- pop up sabers? Its kind of scary, but PLEASE guys, relax until Marc had a chance to comment. Not everyone is online all day long. Also, please keep in mind how many of us were happy to get an affordable vlix or rocket fett. He's done great stuff so far. He should just add a clear repro stamp spmewhere in the future and all is well. I hope this thread does NOT get out of control. fingers crossed...
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Very good point Michael, I'm sure that Mark will respond in time and I hope that by being involved in the dialog we can create a better understanding.
In regard to the suggestion that yourself and others have made in marking the back of the leg with REPRO or similar text, I do not agree that this is a satisfactory measure. It would still be far too easy for unscrupulous sellers to sell these on ebay and not mention that fact and get away with it. There are no shortage of loose Stormtroopers available so I really fail to see why these should be manufactured. Yes it would be nice to have that pristine army of white Stormtroopers but not at the expense of someone being ripped off. Additionally consider what happens in another 10 years time when these once sparkling white Stormtroopers begin to yellow, what is the attraction of them then?
The Rocket firing Fett and Vlix are more acceptable to my mind as they are so rare that no sensible person would consider buying a legit one without some very detailed photos and a lengthy history of ownership plus third party verification. The chances of being duped by a Mark Poon repro are virtually nil. With the broad availability of Stormtroopers though people will not go to the same diligence and the inevitible scam will happen, regardless of some small text on the back of the leg.
By all means make black ones, red ones, purple ones for all I care, but making an exact replica of a mass produced figure at this level is never acceptable.
In regard to the suggestion that yourself and others have made in marking the back of the leg with REPRO or similar text, I do not agree that this is a satisfactory measure. It would still be far too easy for unscrupulous sellers to sell these on ebay and not mention that fact and get away with it. There are no shortage of loose Stormtroopers available so I really fail to see why these should be manufactured. Yes it would be nice to have that pristine army of white Stormtroopers but not at the expense of someone being ripped off. Additionally consider what happens in another 10 years time when these once sparkling white Stormtroopers begin to yellow, what is the attraction of them then?
The Rocket firing Fett and Vlix are more acceptable to my mind as they are so rare that no sensible person would consider buying a legit one without some very detailed photos and a lengthy history of ownership plus third party verification. The chances of being duped by a Mark Poon repro are virtually nil. With the broad availability of Stormtroopers though people will not go to the same diligence and the inevitible scam will happen, regardless of some small text on the back of the leg.
By all means make black ones, red ones, purple ones for all I care, but making an exact replica of a mass produced figure at this level is never acceptable.
Im totally with Michal here! Pissing Mark away helps NOTHING!
I wrote him several (i would say nice) PMs to please come back and actually take part to this conversation! So far I got only one answer: "You win".
This is not about winning Mark. These molds your time and effort on these have probaly cost you some money! So I can feel you saying "I loose". But seriously please join this conversation and let us all find a solution to make this a "good" product for all of us! A product we all can live with it!
AND: as said many many times before....you are totally free to sell the black ones!
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I'm rather concerned that Mark has chosen not to answer our additional questions that have been posted in this thread. Given the lack of additional input we're really left to draw our own conclusions and personally I would rather have some stated assurance from Mark than simply hope that our fears are unfounded.
Mark, I hope you understand our legitimate concerns here in relation to how replicas can be used to deceive others. I don't believe at all that this is your intent, but I think you haven't paused to give it serious thought as to what others might do with your items. Will you respond to our questions and allay our fears?
Mark, I hope you understand our legitimate concerns here in relation to how replicas can be used to deceive others. I don't believe at all that this is your intent, but I think you haven't paused to give it serious thought as to what others might do with your items. Will you respond to our questions and allay our fears?
Would have liked to hear Mark's point of view ...
Anyway, guys, these customs are now on eBay. I know posting links to the auction are against forum rules, so just type in "army trooper builder set" in the search function and u should be able to see the black and white custom troopers for sale. From the description, these are the same ones that Mark was trying to sell over here.
Cheers,
Mark (a different one from Singapore)
Anyway, guys, these customs are now on eBay. I know posting links to the auction are against forum rules, so just type in "army trooper builder set" in the search function and u should be able to see the black and white custom troopers for sale. From the description, these are the same ones that Mark was trying to sell over here.
Cheers,
Mark (a different one from Singapore)
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See how he's selling the stormtroopers for under 10 bucks each? Ya thats the price the Vlix could have been but the a55hole saw $$$ and thats all he cares about.
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Thanks for the heads up Mark (a different one from Singapore)
I don't think there's any problems with 'outing' this type of auction although I am of the opinion that this thread should really be moved from the Limelighting section to the Watch Out section.
Vintage Star Wars Repro / Replacement Stormtrooper / Boba Fett Gun 5 Pack | eBay
The seller account is swindyfan
Well I guess that answers our questions about what is happening with these items doesn't it? If there were any doubts as to Mark Poon's personal philisophy in regard to collecting I believe this clarifies it totally. "**** the collector so long as I can make a buck." This is exactly the reason that I declined Mark's request to me several years ago for hi res scans of my POTF Anakin cardback. He never told me he wanted to use it to produce fakes, he spun me some fanciful tail about wanting a nice image for archival purpose. What a low life counterfeiting deceiving scumbag. I hope a truck full of Lucas' lawyers falls on you.
I guess I called it before, Revalveit mark II.
I don't think there's any problems with 'outing' this type of auction although I am of the opinion that this thread should really be moved from the Limelighting section to the Watch Out section.
Vintage Star Wars Repro / Replacement Stormtrooper / Boba Fett Gun 5 Pack | eBay
The seller account is swindyfan
Well I guess that answers our questions about what is happening with these items doesn't it? If there were any doubts as to Mark Poon's personal philisophy in regard to collecting I believe this clarifies it totally. "**** the collector so long as I can make a buck." This is exactly the reason that I declined Mark's request to me several years ago for hi res scans of my POTF Anakin cardback. He never told me he wanted to use it to produce fakes, he spun me some fanciful tail about wanting a nice image for archival purpose. What a low life counterfeiting deceiving scumbag. I hope a truck full of Lucas' lawyers falls on you.
I guess I called it before, Revalveit mark II.
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I'm not sure why anyone's surprised by Mark's actions both in creating these figures and in listing them on eBay. His ethics and morals in this hobby have been questionable for YEARS despite some people liking his fake crap. The thing people need to realize is that he's not only doing this in this hobby but in others as well. He has long been, and will likely continue to be, an absolute thorn in the side of the hobby. It took several of many years of badgering him to finally see the light and actually mark his stuff as repro, tho it was too little, too late for many of us to ever trust him.
It is even worse: The Troopers have the regular small HK coo!! I cannot believe he hasnt at least smoothed it away....
So hopefully these are a bit smaller then the orginals. They should be because of transferring the originals into a steelmold!
I saved the pics...here you go:
So hopefully these are a bit smaller then the orginals. They should be because of transferring the originals into a steelmold!
I saved the pics...here you go:
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While I can't speak for the troopers I know there is a small identification point on the weapons (intentional or not it's there) Chris B noticed it when these popped up and made a good picture to show it. I am sure he will post it soon.
I never understood how Mark crept back onto RS since this thread really - http://forum.rebelscum.com/t878194/
Although some of his creations were marked in recent years I firmly believe Mark doesn't see the impact his customs have on the hobby and is far too interested in pushing his own skills in custom making to care or even think about the negative impact.
I never understood how Mark crept back onto RS since this thread really - http://forum.rebelscum.com/t878194/
Although some of his creations were marked in recent years I firmly believe Mark doesn't see the impact his customs have on the hobby and is far too interested in pushing his own skills in custom making to care or even think about the negative impact.
