an actual working cure for yellowing? you judge

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Shame you didn't take a picture of the front of his face before and after ( I guess you didn't think to
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) but hey if it works I would be impressed! Don't reveal the secret yet till we get more results Professor!
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I'm looking forward to your results. Does the solution work the same on all kinds of plastic? I have some yellow transformer pieces that I would love to turn back white.
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SCARDS22 said:
what are they soaked in?
2,2-dimethyl-4-hexanol

haha just made that up. I would love to know the secret and give it a whirl on a couple rare yellow stormtroopers I have.
 
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Jazrael said:
I'm looking forward to your results. Does the solution work the same on all kinds of plastic? I have some yellow transformer pieces that I would love to turn back white.
smile.gif

Actually the originator of this method was working mainly on Transformers. I'll let you guys know this weekend one way or another about my opinion at the conclusion of my experiment.

I always try these things to try to debunk them.

Scards22, PM coming your way.
 
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nic6paul said:
SCARDS22 said:
what are they soaked in?
2,2-dimethyl-4-hexanol

haha just made that up. I would love to know the secret and give it a whirl on a couple rare yellow stormtroopers I have.

The thing is I don't want everyone running out and making their bad figures worse and blaming me if they fall apart. If you look in that one picture, the guy with the cape around his shoulders got that horrendous yellowing on the legs from my oxyclean experiment after someone posted that as a cure all.

I was in a hurry this morning and so I didn't get front and back shots of each item like I should have. I'll try to be more scientific the next time I try it.
 
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Peroxide or a form of makes sense, as this is what they use in the teeth whiteners that are sold over the counter and by dentists.
I will be watching the results of these tests with great interest.

Joe
 
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Need to find out if it is heat+uv that activates the bleaching or if it is just uv or just heat that does it because I don't think soaking them in peroxide with just regular room temperature will do anything at all. I've tried before. Let a stormtrooper sit for a week in peroxide and nothin'...so if you need UV+heat, we might start seeing a lot more minty white stormtroopers for sale come summertime. LOL
 
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Very interesting!

I taken this quote from the link Josh gave:


Catilla said:
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Posted: 24 September 2008 at 7:35pm | IP Logged Quote catilla



now the hows, whats, were and importent the safty bit.
this has been a long time research progect (come hobby) for both my mate and myself, were talking years here and have tryed a number of daft ideas rangeing from bleach to toothpaste and from brasso to vinigar!!

firstly i must repeat:-
this is realy only at test stage this has now been going on for aprrox 3 weeks only so more tests are needed, not only to stop anyone destroying any figures .
also please note use at your own risk .


this is a statment from the lad (my mate) who found this idea:-


HI there i'm new to the boards, but by way of introduction I'm catguts mate, (the one who has been trying out ways of removing the yellowing from figures, in my case transformers). and the suggestion to use this method was given to me by a friend who uses this in labs all the time and stated that it "lightens the colours" on their coloured plastic equipment and therefore may be of use here.


The trial i have been conducting is using a 30% Hydrogen peroxide solution, which can be obtained with a little research on the net (apparently you can get this as a health supllement??)


Anyway i have been soaking the pieces in a glass container and placing this in direct sunlight (ironic i know) , this appears to react with the peroxide causing it to "bleach" the plastics back to their original colours. Unlike conventional bleech this does not appear to cause a brittleness in the plastic after cleaning, however its earlly days yet so use this method at your own risk. The figures i have tried this on were either spares or in dire need of attention.


Now heres the warning part Peroxide is listed as harmful, and so gloves and care should be used when working with this stuff, the contact times vary depending on the plastic and the level of yellowing seen.


If you spill this on skin rinse immediately with plenty of water, the skin will turn white but should return to normal after about 30 to 60 minutes and is associated with a pins and needles type of sensation which lasts for about 10 minutes.


Again use this material and method at your own risk,so far i have had success with all of the figures i have tried this on but i am only trying it on hard - not waxy or rubbery- plastics so the effect on these is currnetly untried.


I'll keep forwarding pics as time and the trial goes by but so far its looking promising.

this also contains the infomation which you need to try this out
also ready my test above to find out the follow up tests which i did and my results

It seems that to get better results - you need sunlight too (or maybe UV light)
 
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Hi All,
In the vintage ceramic world we often "bleach" ironstones and earthenware transfer-printed china. There is a common whiting process to get rid of crazing and staining. What you do is: go to Sally Beauty Supplies or any other beauty supply shop and purchase the highest percentage of hydrogen peroxide. Place your piece in the hydrogen peroxide and place it in the sun. Your china could be outside for days or even weeks. Once your piece is the color you desire - there's one more step...very important. You must soak the piece in water for the same amount of time you soaked the piece in hydrogen peroxide.

Also - I do not know how bleach works on plastic, but I do know that if you use bleach on bones it will start a reaction of dusty deterioration that will not stop until the bone is a dusty pile.

I know I am comparing apples & oranges = plastic with china and plastic with bone, but it's just some tidbits.
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Good Luck!
~Alyssa
 
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Alyssa said:
Hi All,
In the vintage ceramic world we often "bleach" ironstones and earthenware transfer-printed china. There is a common whiting process to get rid of crazing and staining. What you do is: go to Sally Beauty Supplies or any other beauty supply shop and purchase the highest percentage of hydrogen peroxide. Place your piece in the hydrogen peroxide and place it in the sun. Your china could be outside for days or even weeks. Once your piece is the color you desire - there's one more step...very important. You must soak the piece in water for the same amount of time you soaked the piece in hydrogen peroxide.

Also - I do not know how bleach works on plastic, but I do know that if you use bleach on bones it will start a reaction of dusty deterioration that will not stop until the bone is a dusty pile.

I know I am comparing apples & oranges = plastic with china and plastic with bone, but it's just some tidbits.
smile.gif


Good Luck!
~Alyssa

I believe that they do use Hydrogen Peroxide to bleach bones. And yes I am using Hydrogen Peroxide. I currently have the 3% and 12% versions on hand. yesterday was actuallovercast. I didn't know as I set them out at dawn before I went to work. and it only topped about 72 I think.

I also dug up some yellowing G.I. Joe pieces, so they're going outside today.
 
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ThorOakenfelder said:
Alyssa said:
Also - I do not know how bleach works on plastic, but I do know that if you use bleach on bones it will start a reaction of dusty deterioration that will not stop until the bone is a dusty pile.

I believe that they do use Hydrogen Peroxide to bleach bones.

Yes, we do use peroxide to whiten bones, but we never use bleach, which is what Alyssa refers to.
 
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Originally posted by augiebendoggi:
I just picture DJS and membraneman lying face down in the basement, blanked-out grins on their faces, next to open jars of Plasti-Dip...

[/QUOTE]

Dang! Those were the days.
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Warok said:
It seems that to get better results - you need sunlight too (or maybe UV light)
I wonder if a fluorescent bulb would produce enough uv light. If it is indeed the uv that facilitates the reaction.
 
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OK - is it just me or do too many of us know how to whiten bones?
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~Alyssa
 
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Thor are you soaking these all day and over night?
Also it appears that the part do not need to be completely submerged?

UT
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Something tells me we're going to see a bunch of new "white prototypes" for different figures soon showing up on ebay soon :)
 
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mrUTman said:
Thor are you soaking these all day and over night?
Also it appears that the part do not need to be completely submerged?

UT
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Yeah, they remained in the solution last night. I had them inside since a little before full dark to a bit after dawn this morning. and out they went again. expect an update later after I get home.Today looks to be bright and sunny and will top at about 74 degrees, so should be a good way to see if it is just UV that causes the bonds to break down faster in the OH.I can redo the experiment this summer when the temperature tops 115

I am trying to replicate the part of the experiment where not everything is submerged, so we'll see what happens.

Side note, Yoda's back and the back of one leg have also faded to a dull brown. I really want to dig him out and wash him off to see what the heck is going on with that. maybe tonight.
 
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Chris_Mueller said:
Something tells me we're going to see a bunch of new "white prototypes" for different figures soon showing up on ebay soon :)

The originator used multiple colored plastics and they just went back to original. I have thrown some colored G.I. Joe pieces into the solution this morning to see what happens to them. That Ripper is going to miss his legs and crotch if this goes baddly.
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web album updated with new pictures today. Remember I only used the 3% and 12% slutions of Hydrogen peroxide. Sun is a contributing factor because my control did not change.
 
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So this appears to have actually worked to some extent for vintage star wars. Do you feel that the sunlight is essential. I have been trying a compact fluorescent, winter time in Minnesota doesnt offer up much for direct sunlight.
 
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So it is correct to say that with star wars figs, it seems to work better with white plastic - where it works well with yellowing but not really with pinking?

Other colour plastics - can make it worse, such with the Yoda - turned the brown plastic to a horrible pale brown.

Do you soak them in water after peroxide treatment like Alyssa suggested.

It would be interesting to track how these figures may change over the next few months/ year(s)?
 
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This is interesting. Maybe I'll find some of Andy's yellow figures and try a 30%+ from a beauty supply. Also be interesting to go look at different chemical solutions from a beauty supply store. Maybe an Ash color based - that is purple based but dyes without causing yellowing, typically used for platnium blonde colors. Any hairdressers on the forums?

~Alyssa
 
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Warok said:
So it is correct to say that with star wars figs, it seems to work better with white plastic - where it works well with yellowing but not really with pinking?

Other colour plastics - can make it worse, such with the Yoda - turned the brown plastic to a horrible pale brown.

Do you soak them in water after peroxide treatment like Alyssa suggested.

It would be interesting to track how these figures may change over the next few months/ year(s)?

I feel that the Yoda was an extreme case. I'll try to get a picture of his front, but the colors of his arms and legs there are fine. I have a feeling that whatevercaused his head to be that horrible dark brown killed his back too causing extensive plastic damage before being soaked in peroxide. As you might be able to tell from the initial picture his feet and hands had alreasy turned a light bluish color. I think his face was already a very pale green. So whatever had occurred there he had been seriously damaged. Also, nice that the paint on Han's head may have faded slightly but the black of his limbs remains unaffected.

As far as the limbs, yeah I noticed that they didn't seem to whiten up much. I wonder if I got ahold of the 30% solution if tthey would see some changes.

Alyssa, the beauty supply stores only seem to sell 3, 6, 9, and 12% solutions. it didn't really seem like the 3 or 12 were very different. Maybe a further day of soaking would have generated more results but I pulled the figures out and soaked them in water for a little while, mainly to wash away the remains of the solution. Keep in mind if you do this that your figures bodies will fill with water.

If someone reminds me in a few months I'll pull them out and photograph them again.

Nic6Paul - I'm really not learned enough to give you any theories. I'd love to try the experiment with a high UV bulb. I can say that the temperature outside yesterday was a couple degrees colder if not the same as the temperature inside.
 
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Right - to start I am a physicist not a chemist, but I do work with a lot of chemists. Here is what I know:

The yellowing is triggered by UV and heat through a process called photo-oxidisation and thermal-oxidisation respectively. The polymer (usually ABS, Acetate or PVC) absorbs UV causing oxidisation of the molecule, this causes Carbon bond conjugation (cross bonds and double bonds) which will weaken the structure, make it brittle and change the plastics relative permeativity to visible wavelengths of light thus changing its refractive index giving it the yellow hue. The polymer also can contain residual catalyst from the production of the polymer - depending how much is left in the plastic this will accelerate the photooxidastion of the plastic - this why I assume 12 backs rarely yellow but POTF bubbles often yellow.

The point is that once degradtion has started the process can go into a positive feedback loop with the available free oxygen - this combined with heat can accelerate yellowing even in dark environments free of UV.

Now as to whether Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) can reduce the polymer(remove O or add H), even with my limited chemistry knowledge I doubt it - even if it could, thermodynamically I think it is unlikely to reverse Carbon conjugation and return the polymer to its former glory. I suspect the H2O2 is causing another reaction that maybe just as bad or even worse. This may cause an acceleration of degradation long term.

Lee
 
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Lee_Bullock said:
Right - to start I am a physicist not a chemist, but I do work with a lot of chemists. Here is what I know:

The yellowing is triggered by UV and heat through a process called photo-oxidisation and thermal-oxidisation respectively. The polymer (usually ABS, Acetate or PVC) absorbs UV causing oxidisation of the molecule, this causes Carbon bond conjugation (cross bonds and double bonds) which will weaken the structure, make it brittle and change the plastics relative permeativity to visible wavelengths of light thus changing its refractive index giving it the yellow hue. The polymer also can contain residual catalyst from the production of the polymer - depending how much is left in the plastic this will accelerate the photooxidastion of the plastic - this why I assume 12 backs rarely yellow but POTF bubbles often yellow.

The point is that once degradtion has started the process can go into a positive feedback loop with the available free oxygen - this combined with heat can accelerate yellowing even in dark environments free of UV.

Now as to whether Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) can reduce the polymer(remove O or add H), even with my limited chemistry knowledge I doubt it - even if it could, thermodynamically I think it is unlikely to reverse Carbon conjugation and return the polymer to its former glory. I suspect the H2O2 is causing another reaction that maybe just as bad or even worse. This may cause an acceleration of degradation long term.

Lee

LOL!! Blah blah blah. English dude.

OR it could actually be working. There is an obvious POSITIVE effect. Look at the Leia. A picture is worth 1000 words.
 
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Look, you want to know whats going on, thats whats going on. Do a bit of reading around the subject instead of ignorant jibes and you might understand what I wrote - it isnt difficult! I would lay money on it that Hydrogen Peroxide isnt reversing what is a essentially an irreversable reaction. A picture of the Leia in 5 years would be more interesting.
 
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Lee_Bullock said:
Look, you want to know whats going on, thats whats going on. Do a bit of reading around the subject instead of ignorant jibes and you might understand what I wrote - it isnt difficult! I would lay money on it that Hydrogen Peroxide isnt reversing what is a essentially an irreversable reaction. A picture of the Leia in 5 years would be more interesting.

Sorry I have absolutely no interest in the subject. I will let the experiment unfold as it may instead of trying to show everyone "how smart I am"...you get the prize for "best kid in the science class". Congrats, I gotta free pocket protector for you. LMAO
 
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Your ignorance knows no bounds. Perhaps my explaination wasnt in lay terms enough - but it doesnt take much for a none-science person with wikipedia and half a brain to get the gist of it. Hey what do you care, you have no interest in the subject... Instead of derailing this thread take it to PM if you have a problem.
 
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Re: an actual working cure for yellowing? you judg

IoN_Cannon said:
Lee_Bullock said:
Look, you want to know whats going on, thats whats going on. Do a bit of reading around the subject instead of ignorant jibes and you might understand what I wrote - it isnt difficult! I would lay money on it that Hydrogen Peroxide isnt reversing what is a essentially an irreversable reaction. A picture of the Leia in 5 years would be more interesting.

Sorry I have absolutely no interest in the subject. I will let the experiment unfold as it may instead of trying to show everyone "how smart I am"...you get the prize for "best kid in the science class". Congrats, I gotta free pocket protector for you. LMAO

You do realize that Lee has his PhD. in physics, right? I for one appreciate his knowledgeable posts.

I'm very interested in seeing what happens to the figures 6 months down the road. I doubt that hydrogen peroxide can reverse entropy without causing a different type of reaction.

Thor, I for one would be extremely interested in hearing any further observations that you may post here.

-Mike
 
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