Just wow Lotr Kelvin universe.
Amazon Prime Lord of the Rings Series
- Thread starter jedisquared
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One of the complaints is the timeline compression. It was addressed by showrunner McKay in a screen rant article. I’m loving the show as it is. Comparing the massive works of Tolkien to a teleplay is like comparing radio to movies. They’re too different mediums. The production people realize not everyone is going to be pleased with the way things and characters are handled. There will have to be conditions made if not met…edits, new characters introduced, others condensed, trims, whole histories deleted, etc. It’s the reason I hate Kubrick’s The Shining because he missed the whole essence of the book, and I love the Steven Weber miniseries more. Ultimately, you can’t please everyone. Star Wars fans know this only too well.
Well...as said, I can't actually give a fully real take as I've not actually watched the show and basically refuse to. But, I can speak on what I do know and form a take around my knowledge of Tolkien proper, and I haven't felt any need to post any of those opinions... til now, and only on one specific. Sauron is a very different beast from the likes of other iconic villains. In many ways, he's defined by not being identifiable. There isn't an iota of sympathy the audience should have for him. His being relatively mysterious, even downright incorporeal in LOTR itself, is a reflection of what he represents. He is the other. He doesn't merely utilize deception and cruelty, he literally is that. It's the idea that his being is ever present and yet always unseen. Even when he does appear, it's almost always (if not entirely) a disguised manipulation. Sauron is less a character and more a preversion of the forces of nature. He's very theological in his conception and really is an archetypal embodiment of evil itself. It's not about his details; I don't even want to know many of them (and Tolkien doesn't deliver many for an explicit purpose); it's about what he represents. That is bigger than any background you can give him. He's a less is more character. The less you see, the more fearsome and seemingly unstoppable he is. He is within the image of an omnipotent figure, beyond out true understanding. You're not supposed to see things through his eyes, but rather witness the horrid wake he leaves through his pawns and machinations. He's basically a surrogate for Lucifer himself. He is intangible, meant to feel untouchable, reflecting the notion of a very innate base emotion beyond our comprehension.
Even Jackson himself knew this, originally having Sauron himself come out and confront Aragorn at the Black Gates of Mordor in the climactic battle at the end of ROTK. They were to have a big sword banging muck about until Jackson realized that this not only betrays the "character" of Sauron, but thematically undermines Tolkien himself. He insisted upon changing it, and subsequently, the big Olog Hai troll that Aragorn fights was superimposed over what was actually originally Sauron. It wasn't about some cliched one-on-one superficial dual for the fate of Middle-Earth. Sauron is beyond that. He works as an antagonist despite never even physically appearing in LOTR because it's really about what evil, exostentially, even is or means!
What this show has said, implied, and now done with Sauron is, by far, the worst thing to have ever been done to what ultimately boils down to Tolkien's literature epic. It's a fundamental misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the base themes of Middle-Earth stories in and of themselves. The show has made more than enough questionable decisions as is, but this? Making Sauron a heartbroken, bitter jerk who wants Xena Galadriel to be his queen? This goes beyond bad and into downright disrespectful fan fiction territory.
What's that sound? That's the sound of Tolkien rolling over in his grave. If you thought he'd have hated some aspects of the Jackson adaptations, dear lord...I can only imagine what he'd say about this. Thanks, Tolkien estate, for selling your soul to Mordor...I mean Amazon! The estate disliked the Jackson films, stating they felt too Hollywood action in nature, yet they delivered the keys to the bus to writers who turned amongst the wisest, most spiritual, and most nuanced roles in Tolkien into Xena Warrior Karen. I eagerly await what they have to say about the show now that it's through season one. If they hated Jackson, oh boy...
I'm pretty damn shocked that that pretty cringe comment on sexy "I can save him" romance Sauron from that immensely cringe video panel of "Tolkien fans" that Amazon posted on Youtube (and subsequently remoted due to the amount of dislikes) came true!
Again, hey, if you like it...more power to you. Don't let my words ruin your fun, they're just the ramblings of an over-protective Tolkien fanatic. But I have to be sincere here in saying it's immensely hard for me to believe that anyone who deeply appreciates Tolkien's actual work can sincerely find this enjoyable. Hey, I'm sure it's possible, but it's just difficult for me to fathom that. I can't understand that. Perhaps from a casual fan or someone who's altogether unfamiliar with the world, but otherwise...I just can't see how this is pleasing to Tolkien fans. Not gatekeeping here, enjoy what you enjoy, just stating I legitimately don't understand how. Adaptation is one thing. Edits, alterations, and so on will be inevitable when adapting novel to screen, particularly Tolkien. I can roll with that. I am understanding of the difference in mediums that requires cuts and changes. Film flows very differently from page, page grants far less time restraint, etc. Jackson changed plenty, but I do find the underlined important beats were preserved and the spirit was respectful. This isn't that. This is a fundemental bastardization of established lore that undermines the very themes and purpose of the tales themselves.
Even Jackson himself knew this, originally having Sauron himself come out and confront Aragorn at the Black Gates of Mordor in the climactic battle at the end of ROTK. They were to have a big sword banging muck about until Jackson realized that this not only betrays the "character" of Sauron, but thematically undermines Tolkien himself. He insisted upon changing it, and subsequently, the big Olog Hai troll that Aragorn fights was superimposed over what was actually originally Sauron. It wasn't about some cliched one-on-one superficial dual for the fate of Middle-Earth. Sauron is beyond that. He works as an antagonist despite never even physically appearing in LOTR because it's really about what evil, exostentially, even is or means!
What this show has said, implied, and now done with Sauron is, by far, the worst thing to have ever been done to what ultimately boils down to Tolkien's literature epic. It's a fundamental misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the base themes of Middle-Earth stories in and of themselves. The show has made more than enough questionable decisions as is, but this? Making Sauron a heartbroken, bitter jerk who wants Xena Galadriel to be his queen? This goes beyond bad and into downright disrespectful fan fiction territory.
What's that sound? That's the sound of Tolkien rolling over in his grave. If you thought he'd have hated some aspects of the Jackson adaptations, dear lord...I can only imagine what he'd say about this. Thanks, Tolkien estate, for selling your soul to Mordor...I mean Amazon! The estate disliked the Jackson films, stating they felt too Hollywood action in nature, yet they delivered the keys to the bus to writers who turned amongst the wisest, most spiritual, and most nuanced roles in Tolkien into Xena Warrior Karen. I eagerly await what they have to say about the show now that it's through season one. If they hated Jackson, oh boy...
I'm pretty damn shocked that that pretty cringe comment on sexy "I can save him" romance Sauron from that immensely cringe video panel of "Tolkien fans" that Amazon posted on Youtube (and subsequently remoted due to the amount of dislikes) came true!
Again, hey, if you like it...more power to you. Don't let my words ruin your fun, they're just the ramblings of an over-protective Tolkien fanatic. But I have to be sincere here in saying it's immensely hard for me to believe that anyone who deeply appreciates Tolkien's actual work can sincerely find this enjoyable. Hey, I'm sure it's possible, but it's just difficult for me to fathom that. I can't understand that. Perhaps from a casual fan or someone who's altogether unfamiliar with the world, but otherwise...I just can't see how this is pleasing to Tolkien fans. Not gatekeeping here, enjoy what you enjoy, just stating I legitimately don't understand how. Adaptation is one thing. Edits, alterations, and so on will be inevitable when adapting novel to screen, particularly Tolkien. I can roll with that. I am understanding of the difference in mediums that requires cuts and changes. Film flows very differently from page, page grants far less time restraint, etc. Jackson changed plenty, but I do find the underlined important beats were preserved and the spirit was respectful. This isn't that. This is a fundemental bastardization of established lore that undermines the very themes and purpose of the tales themselves.
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I didn't hate it nor did I think it was great, is just was and I'm not sure that's what you from from an average consumer. Not being able to please hard core fans is one thing and something you can't really do much about when people have a world built up in their head, but if your show isn't compelling to the average audience that's when things will go south and turn into the shadowlands. For me the show overall just wasn't that "got you" interesting to keep me wanting more or care if there s a season two. Now there were definitely some interesting elements and well done scenes/dialog for certain characters that helped move it along. The long pauses and slow-mo stuff was getting old by EP3 and they kept doing it...
Nothing in the finale came as a surprise to me and I don't even know the source material other than rings were made, there were always "tells" about a character that you know where they were going even with some vagueness and a couple misdirects.
Since I don't know the lore my only question is if they needed a lot of mythril in order to fix the tree how are the three rings going to help that?
Also weren't there more rings made than three? As I recall both men and Dwarfs also got some, but it appears all the myth is gone so what good are those other rings anyway?
I do agree that Sauron didn't actually need to be anyone, as he is essentially a representation of the darkness in all of us.
Nothing in the finale came as a surprise to me and I don't even know the source material other than rings were made, there were always "tells" about a character that you know where they were going even with some vagueness and a couple misdirects.
Since I don't know the lore my only question is if they needed a lot of mythril in order to fix the tree how are the three rings going to help that?
Also weren't there more rings made than three? As I recall both men and Dwarfs also got some, but it appears all the myth is gone so what good are those other rings anyway?
I do agree that Sauron didn't actually need to be anyone, as he is essentially a representation of the darkness in all of us.
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$60 million per episode 
ouch
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The mythril fixing the tree is not part of the lore. It's invented for the show. In the show Sauron tells Celebrimbor to mix the mythril with other metals to amplify it's effects. Celebrimbor adds to that and explains it to Gil Galad that making it round will cause the light to arc back upon itself to a power that is unbound.
New casting for season 2:
https://www.theonering.net/torwp/20...er-announces-more-new-casting-for-season-two/
And potential spoiler:
Spoiler:
And Merrick / Blue Leader (Ben Daniel’s) is landing in Middle-Earth!
https://www.theonering.net/torwp/20...f-power-announces-new-casting-for-season-two/
Plus - Adar is recast!
https://www.theonering.net/torwp/20...er-announces-more-new-casting-for-season-two/
And potential spoiler:
And Merrick / Blue Leader (Ben Daniel’s) is landing in Middle-Earth!
https://www.theonering.net/torwp/20...f-power-announces-new-casting-for-season-two/
Plus - Adar is recast!
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Yeah, the Adar recasting seemed odd to me considering they knew it would be more than one season. Usually they have to sign multiple seasons deals so I don't know why this wasn't done for Adar. Unless S2 he's totally changed his look?
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Was surprised by the recasting but that's Hollywood. Really enjoyed season 1. The wife is a seasoned Tolkien fan, so she helped me with some lore I didn't know. Second watch was excellent, picking up on thematic elements that I hadn't noticed. Elrond and Durin are my favorites. Numenor is gorgeous.
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