After watching the PT again

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I watched the movies again and one thing struck me.

Watching TPM then AOTC it struck me when Padme said she had always loved Anakin. So she was 15 or so and loved a 10 year old or so? This led me to the whole discussion about interweaving Padme and Anakin. So I was thinking if there was a better way to match those two up instead of how Lucas wrote things.

My thoughts led me to, what if Padme wasn't queen but the young daughter of a king or queen. Instead of them wanting her to sign a treaty but trying to kidnap her as bait. Much can play out similarly. Then in AOTC Padme goes to Anakin for protection because he is the only person she can truly trust...

Just some thoughts on how to change the story up a bit
 
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Having Anakin be the same age as Padme would help solve both this problem, and others. They could have cast Anakin as a 14 year old, or Padme as a 10 year old. Then there could be a convincing young love theme in TPM from the get go. We would even root for him, feeling invested in the star crossed lovers, instead of being bored by it later on. Makes more sense for him to be the older age, and for him to have a hidden dark side that is visible to the audience. Maybe even see a little bit of how his jealousy or overprotectiveness clouds his judgment.
 
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If we could just re-write the PT's as a whole, remove the stupid and keep the good; this would be an incredible thing.
There's a version of the PT where someone removed Jar Jar from the entire trilogy, it was so much better and worth a watch. Although still not great, removing cinematic histories worst character ever really improved the films.
 
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If we could just re-write the PT's as a whole, remove the stupid and keep the good; this would be an incredible thing.
There's a version of the PT where someone removed Jar Jar from the entire trilogy, it was so much better and worth a watch. Although still not great, removing cinematic histories worst character ever really improved the films.
Jar Jar's annoying and pointless, but I don't know if he's the worst problem with the PT. Anakin was poorly written, badly acted, and irritating.
The love story is unbelievable. a 10 year gap where these children have grown to adulthood without having seen each other? how could either of them be carrying a spark from those handful of days that they spent together? Why didn't Obi-Wan get more concerned by Anakin's creepy, stalker behavior? Why did Lucas direct Hayden to sound as emotionless and flat as possible?
AotC is far and away my least favorite Star Wars film.
 
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Ultimately I feel there was no need to cast Anakin as such a young child. I'm not sure if he was supposed to be 10 or thereabouts. The age put a real restriction on their casting choices. Had they made Anakin 14 years old they could have brought in an actor with more confidence and ability while not really changing the film character itself all that much. It's interesting watching the Phantom Menace documentary where they narrow the Anakin character down to three actors. Of the three, one kid could barely read his lines, one didn't have the right look leaving Jake Lloyd as the least bad choice available. He stumbled through his lines and even Natalie seemed a little irritated. It should have been clear at this early stage that maybe they should be casting a kid a little older. It certainly comes across that way watching the documentary but George had his vision and was okay with Jake's limited ability.
 
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At the bare minimum, a re-edit of AOTC would exclude anything on Naboo about "sand" and that godawful fireplace scene. So they frolic in the field, have dinner and she wakes up and goes looking for him to find him meditating on the balcony overlooking the lake. The best she looks in the entire trilogy IMO. If it means sacrificing the dialogue that explains why their forbidden love will not work, then so be it. It's just so so terrible. I think there's enough chit chat about that aspect anyway. Way too much chit chat about a lot of things.

Although there are a number of deleted scenes that could also be reintroduced that do contain.. more talking. The court of Count Dooku when Padme and Anakin are captured. We get more Jango and more creatures at least and the process seems legit and realistic.

JarJar, I have no real problem with. He never really annoyed me that much. Maybe I don't get the racial undertones because of where I'm from, but I do see a well animated CG character that looked convincingly real. To me at least.

If I could wish for anything more in AOTC it would be more clones, less jedi. I always hated the arena battle scene and the way some of the extras look and move.. All those different colour lightsabers swinging about, it had some bad nerd house party with a special on glow sticks air to it.

Just give me another 3 hours of clones and clone hardware doing everything! As much as AOTC is labeled the worst film, you can't deny the popularity of clones. They are so well done!
 
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At the bare minimum, a re-edit of AOTC would exclude anything on Naboo about "sand" and that godawful fireplace scene. So they frolic in the field, have dinner and she wakes up and goes looking for him to find him meditating on the balcony overlooking the lake. The best she looks in the entire trilogy IMO. If it means sacrificing the dialogue that explains why their forbidden love will not work, then so be it. It's just so so terrible. I think there's enough chit chat about that aspect anyway. Way too much chit chat about a lot of things.

Although there are a number of deleted scenes that could also be reintroduced that do contain.. more talking. The court of Count Dooku when Padme and Anakin are captured. We get more Jango and more creatures at least and the process seems legit and realistic.

JarJar, I have no real problem with. He never really annoyed me that much. Maybe I don't get the racial undertones because of where I'm from, but I do see a well animated CG character that looked convincingly real. To me at least.

If I could wish for anything more in AOTC it would be more clones, less jedi. I always hated the arena battle scene and the way some of the extras look and move.. All those different colour lightsabers swinging about, it had some bad nerd house party with a special on glow sticks air to it.

Just give me another 3 hours of clones and clone hardware doing everything! As much as AOTC is labeled the worst film, you can't deny the popularity of clones. They are so well done!
I think that clone wars and revenge of the Sith with the skittle clones are what made the clones popular.
 
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I had a problem with Anakin being as young as he was in TPM too. I would have been better if you were about the same age as Luke was in ANH. At least him taking at the droid control ship would have been a bit more believable. Yeah, Jar Jar should have been ran over by one of those droid tanks. The only thing great about ATOC was the battle of Geonosis. That was it.
 
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I wish they would have just picked up with an adult Anakin with the Clone Wars already underway or JUST beginning. Lend some credence to Yoda's concerns about Luke being too old to begin the training. Make him kind of a Han Solo type. Brash, cocky, kind of a scoundrel. But he's very strong in the force, just untrained. If they could have brought him in as a man, to have him be past the indoctrination age the Jedi preferred and questioning the whole thing from the beginning it could have made the entire corruption and fall of Anakin FAR more believable.

He meets Ben in trying to save Padme, an adult Queen or senator (or go completely different and make her Obi-Wan's Apprentice), they have a big adventure where he and Obi-Wan become good friends, the attraction between he and Padme begins, and he joins the Jedi Order at the end.

You can keep the forbidden love theme in there with Padme. Let Obi-Wan find out in the second movie, causing the two of them to butt-heads over this, putting a rift between them. Keep Palpatine manipulating Anakin over the course of the trilogy, as well. Can even keep them marrying or, at least carrying on their relationship in secret. Maybe Anakin questions the wisdom of indoctrinating children or maybe even sees a bit of Mace Windu's "Too dangerous to be left alive" stuff in action and deepens his doubts.

By the third movie, we've got a guy whose best friend/mentor is trying to ruin his relationship, sees the hypocrisy of the Jedi Order, and is already being manipulated.


Damn. Went a bit off the rails, there. But yeah, just an idea.
 
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Interestingly for me, I’m looking at the Prequels with a newfound, naive-esque charm after the heavily corporate-influenced TFA, which is so unattractive to me. They’re still a mess, but it’s more like a clueless, but well-intended mess, from a man that’s Ed Wood-incompetent, but also has an endearing sort of charm when it comes to writing and directing. The Prequels have taken on an almost indie tone now, in light of the Sequels’ corporate tone, to me. I know that George isn’t indie and has been a corporation for a long time, but still...

I never thought there was anything deplorably wrong with the Preqeuls' treatment: It was a simple story that kept to its mythology and fairy tale roots. I think George has always been good with treatments. Unfortunately, his sole execution was what messed everything up. I mean, I don’t there was much concern with how tyke-Anakin was too young when the teaser poster was revealed of Lil’ Ani with Vader’s shadow. I think the response was mostly— if not all, positive and likely most were intrigued by that direction. And I found Jake to be a kid that’s capable of subtle gestures and genuinely honest child-like warmth that many young actors don’t possess: They’re too self-aware and come off too theatrical. Jake is very natural in his mannerisms, it’s only when he has to speak, that he really needs strong guidance. And George is not known for that.

The awkward age difference between Anakin and Amidala could have worked well in TPM, if only on a platonic level— with a few revisions to the script. Anything more to suggest a romantic connection is just so weird, and not in a good way: 14-yo girls just don’t care for 10-yo boys when given the choice, fairy tale or not. I get that George wanted Anakin to be very young mostly because of wanting to appeal to a new generation; that’s the businessman in George. But I think he also mentioned he was interested in the psychology of a very young child having to be separated from his only parent, and how that can shape his future. I thought it could have been interesting— if done well. And that’s the problem: it wasn’t. Amidala suddenly confessing to a little kid that “my feelings for you will not change” came out of nowhere, since she dismissed him to Qui-Gonn earlier with “do you think we should put our faith in this boy that we hardly know..?” I guess she changed her mind about him since he managed to win her that ticket off the planet…? Kind of shallow, isn’t she? Then she falls for him in AOTC out of pure… lust?

One of the first, and most memorable imagery I have of TPM, was that helicopter shot of the Theed Palace with the TF army at its doorsteps. That was instantly worldbuilding to me: This impossibly rich, mythical, almost delicate setting with these warmachines about to dominate it. It was ripe for so many suppositions and potential for intrigue. Classical fairy tale narrative repurposed for a new space opera- and taking SW to an wholly and unexpected level. Not a single familiar OT-design in sight, and yet, it was still convincingly SW on first impression. There was so much confidence and vision eluded to in that one shot for me. If nothing else, I still admired George for his efforts with TPM, maybe even more so now post-TFA. It really felt like he was giving his all with TPM, and telling the story he wanted, rather than what the fans/ general public wanted. And I’ve always preferred George’s idea to the fans’.
 
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Interestingly for me, I’m looking at the Prequels with a newfound, naive-esque charm after the heavily corporate-influenced TFA, which is so unattractive to me. They’re still a mess, but it’s more like a clueless, but well-intended mess, from a man that’s Ed Wood-incompetent, but also has an endearing sort of charm when it comes to writing and directing. The Prequels have taken on an almost indie tone now, in light of the Sequels’ corporate tone, to me. I know that George isn’t indie and has been a corporation for a long time, but still...

I never thought there was anything deplorably wrong with the Preqeuls' treatment: It was a simple story that kept to its mythology and fairy tale roots. I think George has always been good with treatments. Unfortunately, his sole execution was what messed everything up. I mean, I don’t there was much concern with how tyke-Anakin was too young when the teaser poster was revealed of Lil’ Ani with Vader’s shadow. I think the response was mostly— if not all, positive and likely most were intrigued by that direction. And I found Jake to be a kid that’s capable of subtle gestures and genuinely honest child-like warmth that many young actors don’t possess: They’re too self-aware and come off too theatrical. Jake is very natural in his mannerisms, it’s only when he has to speak, that he really needs strong guidance. And George is not known for that.

The awkward age difference between Anakin and Amidala could have worked well in TPM, if only on a platonic level— with a few revisions to the script. Anything more to suggest a romantic connection is just so weird, and not in a good way: 14-yo girls just don’t care for 10-yo boys when given the choice, fairy tale or not. I get that George wanted Anakin to be very young mostly because of wanting to appeal to a new generation; that’s the businessman in George. But I think he also mentioned he was interested in the psychology of a very young child having to be separated from his only parent, and how that can shape his future. I thought it could have been interesting— if done well. And that’s the problem: it wasn’t. Amidala suddenly confessing to a little kid that “my feelings for you will not change” came out of nowhere, since she dismissed him to Qui-Gonn earlier with “do you think we should put our faith in this boy that we hardly know..?” I guess she changed her mind about him since he managed to win her that ticket off the planet…? Kind of shallow, isn’t she? Then she falls for him in AOTC out of pure… lust?

One of the first, and most memorable imagery I have of TPM, was that helicopter shot of the Theed Palace with the TF army at its doorsteps. That was instantly worldbuilding to me: This impossibly rich, mythical, almost delicate setting with these warmachines about to dominate it. It was ripe for so many suppositions and potential for intrigue. Classical fairy tale narrative repurposed for a new space opera- and taking SW to an wholly and unexpected level. Not a single familiar OT-design in sight, and yet, it was still convincingly SW on first impression. There was so much confidence and vision eluded to in that one shot for me. If nothing else, I still admired George for his efforts with TPM, maybe even more so now post-TFA. It really felt like he was giving his all with TPM, and telling the story he wanted, rather than what the fans/ general public wanted. And I’ve always preferred George’s idea to the fans’.

I've always thought that Padme had feelings for Anakin since their time on Naboo, even if her feelings were not exactly romantic. She thought Anakin was a cute and brave kid. I also think that she eventually fell for Anakin mostly because she felt sorry for him: he had no father, he left his mother when he was only about ten, he lost his original mentor (Qui-Gon), his mother was killed by sand people, he lost his arm, ... I'm not saying it's the best way to portray their love story, but that's how I think it worked for them.

Sometimes the brightest people do the stupidest things, especially for love. Padme was really smart, but not when it came to Anakin. She married him (betraying the Senate and the Jedi Order), she was willing to overlook the bad things Anakin did: lying to everyone; killing the sand people, the Separatist leaders, the younglings, and other Jedi... By the time she came to her senses, it was too late, and Anakin choked her a few seconds later.
 
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It's funny, I always thought it might've been a reverse for the prequels. Like Revenge is the best because Lucas had it planned and fleshed out, but wanted a new trilogy and had to work on more, which led to the more lackluster parts of TPM and AotC. It is interesting looking back against what Disney is doing. I just wish even if the prequels are forever considered subpar, that Disney would do more to acknowledge the prequels are an official part of the canon, instead of mostly acting like they bought the OT and the PT exists just a bit more than EU-Legends
 
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ehh I watched them again the past week, and still really dig em. can't see how they've become so reviled, I just don't get it.
 

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I just wish even if the prequels are forever considered subpar, that Disney would do more to acknowledge the prequels are an official part of the canon, instead of mostly acting like they bought the OT and the PT exists just a bit more than EU-Legends

I don't see why they couldn't in the novels but I doubt they will do it in the movies. From a practicable standpoint, all the characters and situations are long dead and why reuse a planet when they can create a new one? It might feel "shoehorned in". I remember reading a novel and suddenly Luke was fighting droidkedias and it seemed wrong. It took me out of the story.

TFA was heavily criticized (with good reason) as being a remake of ANH, so I can see future films shying away from familiar OT/PT constructs. I also suspect it might actually detract from the story. Would TFA have been improved if Maz had lived on Naboo?

I wouldn't mind seeing some PT ships, droids, or aliens in the background though (same with the OT as well!). Done well, it can be really cool. Done badly and it breaks the 4th wall.
 
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anakin's relationship to padme seemed wholly implausible. why did they even have to be married? had GL never heard of a child born out of wedlock? it all seems contrived/created to explain the fact that Luke carry's anakin's last name in IV. (but if they were married in secret, and nobody knew the identity of padme's baby-daddy, then how does this explain the name, exactly?). but ok whatever, they're "married". so now we have to see a glimpse of their "domestic life" which basically shows anakin visiting his wife in her apartment, hoping nobody will ever see him -- because heaven forbid -- THAT would be a plot point... but luckily, the writer is lazy, so he DOESN"T GO THERE, and this whole 'situation' leads to nothing. (etc).



here's what I would change (among other things): after TPM, anakin secretly rescues Shmi from Slavery, and sets her up in an apartment on coruscant. he visits her in secret, once a week. somebody notices, (a Garindan with a Snake on his Face), and uses this to blackmail anakin into doing things against the jedi order. when anakin fails to comply, Shmi is brutally killed. anakin is consumed by guilt, because he's the one who put Shmi in danger -- he should have sought help from obi-wan, or the rest of the jedi order -- but HE did this all on his own, and ****ed it up. ((HE placed Shmi in danger AND failed to protect her, without telling the rest of the Jedi Order that he rescued Shmi and brought her to coruscant -- perhaps he had help from Padme and the Naboo AirForce, ie: padme was 'in on it', and SHE helped too-young-anakin to bring Shmi to coruscant -- include this as an epilogue to TPM)). later, in AOTC, anakin and padme are secretly married. anakin vists HER in secret now, once a week. somebody notices. (a Garindan with a Snake on his Face). and uses this to blackmail anakin. this puts padme in danger. anakin is determined to protect padme -- he won't let the same thing happen to her, that happened to Shmi. the Bad Guys who are threatening padme, finally push anakin over the edge. he wants more pow-ah! he does stuff that is "dark side", in order to protect padme. she can't approve his methods. and as before, he loses her, because of the slippery slope which governs his actions. etc.

ie: anakin's "Secret relationship" to padme should have been given precedence, via a 'secret relationship' to Shmi, and THIS gets Shmi killed. (that way, the audience is SHOWN exactly why a jedi can't have these relationships -- because it puts people in danger). anakin feels guilt and anger over it. he can't handle the fact that HE caused Shmi's death... then later.... padme takes Shmi's place in anakin's life. she becomes the 'secret relationship', and THIS puts padme in danger now too. (not some "dream"). anakin is hell-bent on preventing the danger that HE caused, by selfishly having this Forbidden relationship in the first place.

(ie: GL tells us that Jedi are not supposed to marry, and Bad Things will happen if anybody finds out .... and then .... nobody finds out. *yawn* so, why tell us this in the first place? -- is this a "plot point", or not!?)

(and/or: if padme is in mortal danger , then the danger should have been caused BY the forbidden relationship -- BY anakin himself.

(else, why bother defining it as 'forbidden' in the first place? ---- that would be like Jurassic World, defining for the audience, exactly what would happen if the I-rex got out of its cage ... and then ... it just doesn't happen, so there's no movie... *whew* ....that was a close one! *roll credits!*) :p
 
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(Probably in the running for my longest reply ever...)

anakin's relationship to padme seemed wholly implausible. why did they even have to be married? had GL never heard of a child born out of wedlock? it all seems contrived/created to explain the fact that Luke carry's anakin's last name in IV. (but if they were married in secret, and nobody knew the identity of padme's baby-daddy, then how does this explain the name, exactly?). but ok whatever, they're "married". so now we have to see a glimpse of their "domestic life" which basically shows anakin visiting his wife in her apartment, hoping nobody will ever see him -- because heaven forbid -- THAT would be a plot point... but luckily, the writer is lazy, so he DOESN"T GO THERE, and this whole 'situation' leads to nothing. (etc).


here's what I would change (among other things): after TPM, anakin secretly rescues Shmi from Slavery, and sets her up in an apartment on coruscant. he visits her in secret, once a week. somebody notices, (a Garindan with a Snake on his Face), and uses this to blackmail anakin into doing things against the jedi order. when anakin fails to comply, Shmi is brutally killed. anakin is consumed by guilt, because he's the one who put Shmi in danger -- he should have sought help from obi-wan, or the rest of the jedi order -- but HE did this all on his own, and ****ed it up. ((HE placed Shmi in danger AND failed to protect her, without telling the rest of the Jedi Order that he rescued Shmi and brought her to coruscant -- perhaps he had help from Padme and the Naboo AirForce, ie: padme was 'in on it', and SHE helped too-young-anakin to bring Shmi to coruscant -- include this as an epilogue to TPM)). later, in AOTC, anakin and padme are secretly married. anakin vists HER in secret now, once a week. somebody notices. (a Garindan with a Snake on his Face). and uses this to blackmail anakin. this puts padme in danger. anakin is determined to protect padme -- he won't let the same thing happen to her, that happened to Shmi. the Bad Guys who are threatening padme, finally push anakin over the edge. he wants more pow-ah! he does stuff that is "dark side", in order to protect padme. she can't approve his methods. and as before, he loses her, because of the slippery slope which governs his actions. etc.

ie: anakin's "Secret relationship" to padme should have been given precedence, via a 'secret relationship' to Shmi, and THIS gets Shmi killed. (that way, the audience is SHOWN exactly why a jedi can't have these relationships -- because it puts people in danger). anakin feels guilt and anger over it. he can't handle the fact that HE caused Shmi's death... then later.... padme takes Shmi's place in anakin's life. she becomes the 'secret relationship', and THIS puts padme in danger now too. (not some "dream"). anakin is hell-bent on preventing the danger that HE caused, by selfishly having this Forbidden relationship in the first place.

(ie: GL tells us that Jedi are not supposed to marry, and Bad Things will happen if anybody finds out .... and then .... nobody finds out. *yawn* so, why tell us this in the first place? -- is this a "plot point", or not!?)

(and/or: if padme is in mortal danger , then the danger should have been caused BY the forbidden relationship -- BY anakin himself.

(else, why bother defining it as 'forbidden' in the first place? ---- that would be like Jurassic World, defining for the audience, exactly what would happen if the I-rex got out of its cage ... and then ... it just doesn't happen, so there's no movie... *whew* ....that was a close one! *roll credits!*) :p

I would think that whether they were married or not, Luke being the son of Skywalker would still make it possible to have/use the last name Skywalker. This is a fantasy placed a long time ago in a galaxy far away, which I believe was stated so that rules pertaining to our universe and earth and ways don't have to be adhered to if Lucas didn't want to. It would be the generic idea of being your father's son; we don't need to know the rules/laws of childbirth and naming conventions. Besides, Obi-Wan knows who Luke is. Call it an oversight in storytelling logic on Lucas' part, allowing Luke to use the name Skywalker publicly, but Obi-Wan would have told Owen and Beru who Luke was. No one need know Anakin and Padme were married for Obi-Wan to know Luke was a Skywalker.

As far as being married, no matter what actually happens in real life on earth, and despite the fact that Lucas was divorced long before the PT, he may simply believe in marriage, and that child birth outside wedlock is, in this PC world of ours I'll just say less favorable than within marriage.

He's painting Anakin as starting from a purity of nature. This is why he started the PT with him so young. Whether the acting was bad, or it would be more interesting to see Anakin start as a teen, thus devoting more time to being a Jedi and falling, it was important for Lucas to show how he was starting from a pure, innocent nature towards people. He was selfless, as I believe Shmi points out concerning him wanting to win the podrace to help.

And while the Jedi code may forbid attachment and relations, he (Anakin) feels that that way of thinking isn't natural. Or at least, that feelings and caring for others isn't in and of itself wrong. Which the Jedi aren't saying either. They believe/know that those things place stress on a Jedi, and the life of a Jedi doesn't need outside forces causing a Jedi difficulty in pursuing their beliefs. But he can't see it that way because he had attachment and relationships before he had Jedi life. If he developed both simultaneously, he might have seen how there could be conflict. Or if he was a Jedi first, he would see that such things could cause inner turmoil and that it would be best to avoid them when/if they came up.

So here, Anakin seems to be challenging the Jedi belief on relationships. In his mind, and in secret, not openly. You could say he's being 'bad' and breaking Jedi law. But from a certain point of view you could say he's just challenging the rightness of the Jedi code. He's doing wrong by disobeying the code but he's not doing wrong in the sense that he's questioning whether the code is right or wrong in the first place.

Scenes at the apartment and the whole situation go nowhere as you say because him getting caught isn't the point. It provides a place for he and Padme to be, outside of their vocations, sharing parts of who they are inside. It allows us to see the conflict within him, and her as well, and this is what the marriage, pregnancy, and apartment together are for. They don't exist for him to get observed and have to address someone. It's wanting to lead a life that has two sides, Jedi and personal relationships, and the Jedi side won't allow the other. But Anakin doesn't feel they need be mutually exclusive. And Lucas sets up his background so that Anakin isn't doing anything wrong or evil. He's just trying to do two things that conflict, and he's questioning whether they do conflict or not.

While your take on things doesn't sound ridiculous by any means, it would change how Lucas wants Anakin perceived. His very nature would be different. As it is, he was set up as pure and selfless, but as he faced certain difficulties, he wasn't prepared to handle them. And this came about from the stress of how he grew up (a slave), and the high ideals of the Jedi life. Not things that he caused. You could say that the Jedi forbidding of relationships was a form of and extension of slavery for Anakin. As he grows up he's not allowed to behave in a way that he wants to, just like he and Shmi (and 3PO makes three) couldn't live how they wanted.

He needs to have losing his mother BE the thing that starts to make him crack and now do things that he knows are wrong. The stress that put on him leads him to now do acts of evil. It fosters selfishness in him, which is a turn away from his nature when he was a child. Him trying to hide Shmi, and thus being responsible for her death as you tell it is not the same story of nature and motivation.

In your version, Anakin makes choices against the rules he's following, which cause him stress that leads to his fall. Sneaking his mother out, the secret relationship angle. As it is, Anakin EXPERIENCES stress that leads to his fall by FIRST following the rules. Trying to be a Jedi, he's unable to keep his mom from harm. It's when he's overcome with worry that he breaks the rules to find her, and he does save her in a sense (though she dies). He can't handle that, and does great evil (If you believe killing all the sand people to be evil. That's a whole 'nother side argument there, if you want to argue whether his actions are justified or not). THERE is where you see that attachment and relationships can conflict with the Jedi way. He took life through anger and negative emotion, not in a 'trying to be good but was forced to' kind of way. For a normal being that would be stressful enough. But for a being with great powers (a Jedi), it is bad to get into such situations. A 'bad' Jedi can do harm of a greater magnitude than an every day powerless being.

That was how him being too old to train came to be justified. As a rule it's a good idea, though in Anakin's situation it was more so. Luke almost fell into the trap of relationship attachment as well but managed not to fall. So in two examples, it went bad, and it almost went bad. We see that the consequences are too great to risk, so a rule needs to exist in the first place. Now later in the EU Luke allows relationships, but teaches along the way with the development of them, so people are better equipped to handle the stress of Jedi and relationship life.

Now, as is, Anakin continuing/pursuing his relationship with Padme is direct action taken by him AFTER the failed experience of being attached to his mother, and how he handled her death. Your way has him taking direct action with his mother as well.

He started off good in his pre Jedi days with a relationship to his mother. Then when he's becoming a Jedi, that pre existing relationship causes him stress and to commit evil acts. He then ignores the lesson, doesn't even see it, and further pursues his relationship with Padme, but evil has begun to be unleashed in him. The dark side is growing in him.

In your way, what's different is that he chooses to save and hide his mother and thus becomes responsible for her death. It is no longer an outside event causing him inner turmoil, and thus defining the tragedy that a person with essentially good ideals wasn't capable of following through on them because outside influences weakened him. His continuing/pursuing his relationship with Padme is further direct action taken by him after his failed experience of continuing/pursuing his relationship with his mother. He is disobeying the order both by pursuing Padme and his mother, which downplays the tragedy into perhaps just a shame, and maybe he wasn't quite so good in the first place.

Perhaps it makes him more evil, and there were fans who felt that the PT made Vader into a sad sack person to be pitied, changing the evil being they feared from the OT. But as is, he's trying to follow the Jedi way. Though he's disobeying it by pursuing Padme, it is a struggle within him, and he's really questioning whether they are right or wrong on the relationship issue. But a double disobey takes away the sense of him trying to tread both ways and somehow make them work. It's him simply being selfish in the two challenges he's had to face.

As is, he faced two challenges. He wanted his mother over time but tried to stay within the Jedi way and not have contact. He wanted Padme and couldn't stay within the Jedi way and avoid contact. Your way moves the loss of his mother to a different place but it still exists to bother him. The difference is that he proactively disobeyed the Jedi way and eventually caused her death. Where as as is he followed the Jedi way and indirectly caused her death by not being there to prevent her capture and torture. Those are two very different natures of a personality, even if the end results may be the same.

For all we know, if his mother didn't die from being captured and tortured, he may have struggled with pursuing the Padme relationship, but matured and brought it up to Obi-Wan and the council, arguing a pro relationship Jedi Order. If they buy it maybe he never turns, or if they don't, maybe he walks away somewhat like Ahsoka, to follow right on his own path. But with his relationships to Padme and his mother intact, and not really having broken any laws other than Jedi code. But in your way, if/when someone finds out about his mother and tries to blackmail him, he may have to break some laws or commit dark acts to save her, and can't fully walk away from the Order 'clean' if he ends up addressing the Council as I described.

Also, don't you think that Anakin struggles with the idea that maybe he was selfish in leaving to become a Jedi, and abandoning his mother to whatever life eventually led to her death? We see that he blames the Jedi and Obi-Wan for him not being able to save her. So either he is struggling with blaming himself or the Jedi, or he doesn't blame himself, and just blames the Jedi. Either way, there is turmoil brewing from this.

But if he saved him mother but she dies as you suggest, then he loses much of his view to blame the Jedi. He was following Jedi life but also disobeyed and set her up in an apartment, then mishandled things that got her killed. It's really all on him botching things and he can't really blame the Jedi way.

Some end results may stay the same, perhaps it may be a more entertaining movie, but there would be great changes in motivations and character nature, if done as you suggest.

(I don't recall Lucas saying bad things happen if anyone finds out Jedi are married, where you say no one does so this is a dropped plot point. If someone finds out, then that's a secret exposed and leads to difficulties, sure. But it's the marriage itself that sets up stresses on the individuals as well as others, if and when they find out).
 
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good point. re: staging a "double-disobey", vs., first following the rules (with shmi) and then later just outright breaking them (with padme).
also good point about this removing his ability to blame the jedi for what happens to shmi, rather than blame himself.

I guess my rebut would be, where I mentioned to have padme be the one who "helps" anakin rescue shmi.. instead just have padme do this part all on her own.
include an epilogue to TPM where padme sneaks little anakin off to a new locale (shmi's secret apartment), she presses her finger to her lips, the door opens and anakin sees shmi.
maybe anakin would know that it's wrong, that it's "not the jedi way" .. but he would go along with it anyways, because afterall, padme says it's OK. she says 'he deserves it'
later in AOTC when the secret is discovered, anakin would choose to seek help from the jedi order -- he would TRY (too late) to 'do the right thing' and 'follow the jedi way'..
..but it all goes south. and the "jedi way"gets shmi killed -- so he could be seen as first following the rules (wth shmi), and later just outright breaking them (with padme).
also, he'd have a valid excuse to blame the jedi for directly getting shmi killed. (rather than indirectly "it's all obi-wan's fault").

either way, thanks for your response. cheers
 
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The first time anyone ever told me that the vast majority of people hate the prequels I thought they were lying. Upon revisiting them I was surprised to see how weak TPM and AOTC were (compared to ROTS, which I could watch every day and not get tired of). TPM Anakin was cast to young, and TPM Ani looked nothing like AOTC/ROTS Ani. there was a bit to much Naboo chit chat for me in AOTC. If they had cast Hayden in TPM, who was about 13 in this one 1995 goosebumps episode, I feel like the 10 or so years transition between TPM and AOTC would seem more realistic. The books based on the Prequels are great, if it's worth anything.
 
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The first time anyone ever told me that the vast majority of people hate the prequels I thought they were lying. Upon revisiting them I was surprised to see how weak TPM and AOTC were (compared to ROTS, which I could watch every day and not get tired of). TPM Anakin was cast to young, and TPM Ani looked nothing like AOTC/ROTS Ani. there was a bit to much Naboo chit chat for me in AOTC. If they had cast Hayden in TPM, who was about 13 in this one 1995 goosebumps episode, I feel like the 10 or so years transition between TPM and AOTC would seem more realistic. The books based on the Prequels are great, if it's worth anything.

I find myself agreeing with this sentiment actually. I think staying consistent with actors and maybe even aging Anakin up would have eliminated some of that awkwardness that is present. When it comes to the prequels and my personal preference, I really don't see the films as intrinsically terrible films, but I do see them as more or less wasted potential because there's a lot there that made it to be failed up to the potential it was professed to have or would have by the fandom up until they came out.

I was born in 84 so I didn't exactly grow up on the OT like a lot of others. I was born after the films had been out and I didn't get interested until shortly around the time of 97 with the SE's coming out. That said, I don't really hate the prequels myself. I can separate the good and the not so good. I seem them as something entirely different from the OT though. You have that and it is accompanied with the awkward writing is usually grounds for the reason of why there is so much dislike for them. To me TPM is awkward due to the fact it was trying to be kid-friendly (too much for its own good). I get it, you want to draw kids in and have them experience an equivalent to the '77 crowd. I see it as TPM not really being sure how to carry itself or what it wanted to be an skipping out on the detail. AotC, sorta the same thing, but in essence it was going for a somewhat more mature story with the romance angle. Honestly I've always struggled with the romance because it felt like the most unbelievable thing ever. It felt inorganic and forced and that's why I think the Han/Leia pairing is infinitely more believable and preferred. Lastly, you have RotS which looks like it has gotten its act mostly together, but there are still sappy or forced moments to me in terms of personal preference. Though I do see the fact the Jedi Order is so cold with Anakin in response and Palpatine manipulating that fact (as well as his secret marriage) more of an honest to goodness fleshed out reason for Anakin's fall. The other issue I have is that the PT is quick to dispel a lot of the mystery of the OT. Like who is Darth Vader, Vader's relation to Luke, and even Luke's relation to Leia. So the prequels hurt those aspects of the OT and makes it feel so much like an awkward fit because while the characters don't know, the audience does. So there's really no pay off for it besides "Oh good. They finally know. Wow awkward family is awkward."
 
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by definition, a 'prequel' is a specific type of sequel -- a sequel whose story occurs chronologically prior to an existing story -- but a sequel nonetheless.

IF the sequels were meant to be viewed first, then they would be prologues; not prequels. when you watch them 4,5,6,1,2,3 then all the magic of the OT is intact.

(instead: the palatine-to-emperor reveal is spoiled from the PT; and the 'reveal' that padme has twins. a fair trade).
 
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I think like many if I had to do a rewrite.

TPM would just be a flashback in AOTC. (This gets around many issues, creepy love story with age difference, kid steeling Jedi, Most of Jar Jar)

This also put Darth Maul as the bad guy in AOTC instead of Dooku which I this works better, (Yes Maul can have Dooku's lines)

AOTC biggest issue, if the the lead Anikin (as a new actor to the series) hadn't just caught on to how Lucas works, where the other actors realised its more on them to give a good performance.

ROTS - I would definately change the way Padie dies, Let her be giving birth during a large space battle, when the medical frigate explodes. (The Jedi's fault) The ship crashed into the planet, unbeknown to everyone else Pade survives but the children are separated. With Pade in hidding raising Leia, until she eventually dies.

This allows a third film that involves Darth Vader hunting down the Jedi, which I think is what we all expected from the prequels.

General notes: More emphasis on, on the Jedi betraying/lying to Ani as that really is a big part of why he turns. Let him overhear that conversation after he is told to spy on Palps.

I'm OK with Darth Jar Jar. (The Sith never really follow the rule of 2)

I would have liked it if they did the Obi Wan/ Ani Padme love triangle. (Let us debate the idea that Luke is a Kenobi.) The hinted at this but didn't pull the trigger.

Glad they didn't make Palps Vader's Dad, but after time that idea fits better based on what we have seen. (Palps went through a lot of apprentences, so why did the sliced up one last so long.)
 
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I wish they would have just picked up with an adult Anakin with the Clone Wars already underway or JUST beginning. Lend some credence to Yoda's concerns about Luke being too old to begin the training. Make him kind of a Han Solo type. Brash, cocky, kind of a scoundrel.
Yeah, most people seem to want Anakin to be that way but I would have gone the opposite and made him quite pompous and eloquent with upper class arrogance; more of the formal regal type that Vader is in the OT. And then have Padme be the only person who can cut through all that.
 
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If we could just re-write the PT's as a whole, remove the stupid and keep the good; this would be an incredible thing.
There's a version of the PT where someone removed Jar Jar from the entire trilogy, it was so much better and worth a watch. Although still not great, removing cinematic histories worst character ever really improved the films.

The thing is, Jar Jar is bad, but he's not really the major problem of the PT, especially sicne he basically disappears after TPM. You can edit a lot of his antics out of these, but the fact is parts of the prequels hinge on him. The Gungan army in TPM helps because of him, and the Chancellor's emergency powers are invoked by him.

I think the problem is TPM goes about a lot the wrong way, and the prequels had to follow up on that. Why did "too old" Anakin have to be 10? I'd have preferred he started around 15, like Padme. I also think with better writing, Episode II's events should basically be Episode I. Episode II therefore being a better set up to Anakin's anger (you could still have a Clone Wars series for the entirety of the war, but this would've been much better for setting up Anakin's fall) where we seem him constantly held back when he clearly has the power to win more battles for the Republic, and then do Episode III with some tweaks as well.
 
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everyone who wants to edit the PT and cut out the "bad parts", seems to have a different interpretation of what the PT was actually about, and therefore a different notion of what's "bad" and what's not.

to my eye, you can't cut any of it, else you miss out on the "Origin of the Empire" which is REALLY what the PT is all about -- it's NOT just the "origin of anakin".

it is an "Origin Story", detailing the origin of the Empire itself. ---> Padme created the empire in TPM. jar jar helped. how can anyone suggest to "cut this out"? :wtf:


-====-


episode 1: introduce padme's militarization + qui-gon's defiance of authority. audience agrees with both.

episode 2: push these 2 noble ideas down the slippery slope.
- jar-jar is the other half of padme's planet -- they are inextricably linked. he uses "fear" as motivation, takes "militarization" concept too far -- militarizes the entire galaxy;
- dooku is qui-gon's Jedi Master -- they are inextricably linked. he uses "anger" as motivation, takes "defiance of authority" too far -- creates galactic separatist movement).

episode 3: make anakin choose. anakin chooses "padme" but loses her, because of the slippery slope. he "burns-to-vader" ON a slippery slope, just to drive this theme home 'visually'. <-- this is the theme of the trilogy: "Attack of the Slippery Slope". this is why anakin turned to vader.




the PT shows us how a noble idea can be bent and perverted to become a Bad Idea.

it shows us how padme's righteous "2nd amendment" defense of her home, can be bent by Fear, to create an Evil Empire.

jar jar is the embodiment of that Fear. Jar Jar is essential to the creation of the Empire. he takes Padme's Noble Idea from TPM, and turns it into ..something else.

---> how can we tell this story, without first showing Padme's Noble Idea? LOL (without first watching TPM?) it's not possible.

you can't just cut out TPM. nor even, Jar Jar. this is the Origin of the Empire. not just the "origin of vader" or whatever. :rolleyes:




if the PT were, indeed, simply just, the "origin-of-vader", then I agree: you could cut 2/3 of the entire trilogy and tell the tale using only one movie.

but there's more going on here: it reveals the ideology behind BOTH, the "military" empire and the "defiant" rebel alliance.

(padme's militarization; and qui-gon's defiance -- "need this you do not" -- these are the Ideological Roots of the "galactic civil war" seen in episode IV.

TPM is an Origin Story, for the Empire and the Rebelliion ; it's not just an origin story for "one character" LOL -- that would be silly)
 
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^^^ OMG... Dragging out the powerpoint presentation and star charts again, I see… That post should be your signature. All of it LOOOL

(TPM is the only one that shows any confidence and vision on George’s part— along with the only one of the Prequel that’s not an ugly, cluttered hot mess to look at.)
 
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^^ I don't know what's up with that. it's like the 'weekend shift' took over the art department, and just double-dipped their designs across both 2&3.

palpatine's office had the same carpet? doesn't make much sense. why is he even in the same office? it's like nothing changed between 2&3 -- the aesthetic didn't change, to reflect a time of war.

TPM is definitely prettier to look at.




and apparently some people haven;t seen it yet :p
I've seen R1 twice .. and twice in the theater I was treated to a lecture on "Machete Order" (google it) -- it's the "new and improved" method of watching the PT*, where you ignore the Origin of the Empire and focus solely on anakin -- thereby "cutting" TPM altogether. ughhh. (can you imagine the PT without TPM? apparently some people STILL haven't seen the powerpoint. LOL) :p

-====-

* as opposed to episodic order (1,2,3,4,5,6); or order-of-release(4,5,6,1,2,3) .. Machete Order dictates 4,5,2,3,6,7

this divides ESB from ROTj (so you don't compare them directly, only to find ROTJ lacking);
and inserts an 'anakin flashback' before you watch 6 (which preserves the major character reveals in 5 and 3 -- vader-as-father, and senator-as-emperor).

((read: it destroys the "powerpoint" arc of the PT (because) it reduces the PT to ''reference material" in the form of cherry-picked flashbacks, rather than a story unto itself)). :( ((it's the lastest thing. the dance sensation that's sweeping the nation.. so to speak)).
 
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^^^ Your powerpoint manifesto needs to be required reading for all men-children.

TPM was like going to The Guggenheim while the remainder of the Prequel resembled that collection of Elvis velvet paintings scattered across a pis*ed-stained lawn at a yard sale.
 
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I enjoyed the prequels.
Not quite sure how Lucas was trying to accomplish with all the prequels..
But he failed compared to what he did with the originally trilogy..
I'm just glad that he sold his company to Disney...
Now we got 2 new movies already.. which are far better than the prequels.
All George did was rehash the originally trilogy into numerous special editions and tried to do the same to the prequels by making them 3D..
Glad he stop at episode 1..
 
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I get that there are People who hate the PT, that's fine. But if you're going to cut out the "bad" parts of the PT, then you are going to have to do the same to the OT.
As they both have their equal "bad" parts. Don't let your fondness of he OT blind you to that fact. lol
 
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I get that there are People who hate the PT, that's fine. But if you're going to cut out the "bad" parts of the PT, then you are going to have to do the same to the OT.
As they both have their equal "bad" parts. Don't let your fondness of he OT blind you to that fact. lol

True but TFA and Rogue One are better than the PT?

No people really have a warm fuzzy that NOTHING is a good as the OT yea we get it already move on...:whistling:
 
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True but TFA and Rogue One are better than the PT?

No people really have a warm fuzzy that NOTHING is a good as the OT yea we get it already move on...:whistling:

I know! I thought Rogue One was great, and comparable, in my opinion, to Return of the Jedi and maybe Revenge of the Sith. (By the way, I know TESB is ranked right up there, and I consider it to be a really well made movie. But it is not the most enjoyable or exciting.) I don't consider The Force Awakens to be better than all the prequels, by any means. Definitely not better than Revenge of the Sith. Not to me. Yeah, there were some silly parts here and there. TFA had its own share of silliness and lack of originality. You could say they were trying to pay homage to the OT, but I think they went way too far. And the silliness is all over: Finn's jokes; some of Han's lines, especially in his confrontation with the two bands of smugglers; Ray's seemingly extraordinarily quick learning of the Force; Starkiller base (another "death star"????); Captain Phasma...

I consider Rogue One to be a far better movie than The Force Awakens. Maybe episodes 8 and 9 will redeem TFA, but for now that's where it stands.
 
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I was watching Return of the Jedi the other night and looked at the emperor's scenes differently. I knew the emperor had been overconfident, letting the rebels know the location of the shield generator, and thinking that Luke would turn to the dark side. In retrospective, this makes so much more sense, if we think of the prequels, especially ROTS. The emperor was able to accomplish this huge thing. He manipulated hundreds of senators, the Jedi, and Anakin. He created the empire, and stole the plans to build a super weapon. By comparison, destroying the rebels, to him, was nothing. Yeah, they destroyed the first death star. So what? The rebels just got lucky, because Luke was there. Now Luke was going to turn to the dark side.

Palpatine kept pushing Luke. Telling him that he would give in to his anger and become his apprentice. He wasn't even trying to fool or tempt Luke like he did with Anakin. He was right out telling Luke: use your anger and hatred, you are going to be my apprentice. Sometimes I wondered why... Remember how "easy" it was to fool and turn Anakin? He filled Anakin with anger, doubts, and fear. Anakin was afraid of losing Padme and had lost faith in the Jedi Order. He was also possibly very afraid of Sidious, after seeing how he killed Mace Windu and a bunch of other jedi, and what he had done with the whole galaxy. What would have happened if, after killing Mace Windu, Anakin had refused Sidious? Anakin would have been killed by Sidious. So Anakin sold his soul to the "devil", Sidious, and let himself be brainwashed by him. Now Sidious thought he could do the same with Luke, and he practically didn't even try. He thought it would be so easy. Anakin feared Sidious. Luke didn't. Anakin was easily seduced, especially after he tasted the power of the dark side. Luke used his anger against Vader and defeated him. Sidious thought that would be enough to turn Luke, but Luke didn't turn. You could see the emperor's face and reaction after Luke refused him. "...So be it, Jedi." ("Why you little...!!!!")

Of course, after that, Vader realized the mistake he had made by choosing Sidious all those years ago, and he wasn't going to do that again. Once again, the emperor was overconfident, and didn't even consider that Vader could betray him at that point. Palpatine was so overconfident and enjoying the moment that he didn't even realize that there was still good in Vader, at least not while he was roasting Luke with his super Force lightning. That's how he failed.
 
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mesa1.gif
 
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Yeah, most people seem to want Anakin to be that way but I would have gone the opposite and made him quite pompous and eloquent with upper class arrogance; more of the formal regal type that Vader is in the OT. And then have Padme be the only person who can cut through all that.

Um, isn't one Scoundrel enough in SW? :p
Yes, which as you can see above is why my Anakin would have been more like Leia than Han.
 
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Jar Jar's annoying and pointless, but I don't know if he's the worst problem with the PT. Anakin was poorly written, badly acted, and irritating.
The love story is unbelievable. a 10 year gap where these children have grown to adulthood without having seen each other? how could either of them be carrying a spark from those handful of days that they spent together? Why didn't Obi-Wan get more concerned by Anakin's creepy, stalker behavior? Why did Lucas direct Hayden to sound as emotionless and flat as possible?
AotC is far and away my least favorite Star Wars film.

I always had this thought. This is why Anakin should have been much older even in TPM. He was written poorly I do agree. The only thing I liked about ATOC was the battle of Geonosis and that was all.
 
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